Why is Methos so weak?
Kelly Shuford
RosebudSal wrote:
> <snip>
It is MNSVHO, that the scene
> under the bridge where Mac defeats him, was just a test. I truly believe
> Methos let Duncan win that fight...
IIRC Duncan even says something to the effect of "No you'll just make
another mistake and let me win."
Kelly
--
A man who has lived for centuries knows much of pleasing women.
-- Nancy Holder, MOAM
Wallace
Don't know much about highlander but if Methos is supposed to be the
oldest immortal, why is he so weak compared to Kalas who almost killed
him...?
Also, what determines the age that an immortal becomes immortal?
Dawn
Okay, you're a newbie so I'll let you live :-)
Here are some general rules to "live" by:
1) Never insult Methos (or you'll get my "My name is Dawn The Evil Mad
Scientist. You insulted my Methos. Prepare to Die." speech). <eg>
2) Methos is not weak. Half the time we're not sure if he's faking...
Kalas didn't take his head, and that's what counts. Methos is more
crafty, manipulative. He prefers to dodge a fight rather than engage in
one, and he's darn good at weasling his way out. That's one reason he's
lived so long...
(although I'm sure he's flashed his toes to some potential female
opponents to mesmorize them long enough for him to make a getaway)
<grin>
3) PREimmortals become immortals the first time they die. If they die of
old age, we generally figure that they really die (i.e., don't become
immortal).
4) Methos can do no wrong (even when he does)... Don't try to make sense
out of it. Just accept it....
5) You will be assimilated (as a Methosian). Resistance is futile.
--
-Dawn-
Time is the best teacher. Unfortunately, it kills all of its students.
The Chako Rescue Association
for the American Pit Bull Terrier
http://members.tripod.com/~DawnC
Greatest American Hero
On Fri, 25 Apr 1997, Dawn wrote:
> 3) PREimmortals become immortals the first time they die. If they die of
> old age, we generally figure that they really die (i.e., don't become
> immortal).
HEY! There's absolutely NO basis for that.....
-GiL-
RosebudSal
In article <01bc51da$15576260$2e836fce@default>, "Wallace"
<int...@hotmail.com> writes:
>
> Don't know much about highlander but if Methos is supposed to be
the
>oldest immortal, why is he so weak compared to Kalas who almost killed
>him...?
>
> Also, what determines the age that an immortal becomes immortal?
Well, I'll start with the easy question first. Me thinks answering the one
about Methos will require a bit more thought, and well, I don't mind
thinking
about the old man, I gotta put my thoughts in order first.
Maybe it's fate that determines at what age an immortal will be when
he/she
dies for the first time. Maybe it depends on the lifestyle the
pre-immortal
lives-- some die young, Michelle and Richie and others are older-- Duncan,
Fitz, Brother Paul, Kalas, Mako, etc. But all immortals die violent
deaths--
Duncan was killed in battle. Richie was shot by a thug, Michelle died in
a car accident (which is one of the major causes of death for teenagers
anyway) and the Immortal Cimoli was squashed by a semi-truck. So the
type of death is always a constant for immortals, but I think the age at
which
they die is dependent on their lifestyle and era they are living in.
Now, onto the second question...heh heh. The Methos one ;~) .
I'm going to have to disagree with you about Methos being weak because
Methos is a survivor first and foremost. Now I don't know if you're
getting
the current season of Highlander, which run in local syndication, however
I just I get the impression you're watching Highlander on USA, which makes
answering this a bit harder since quite a bit of the evidence I have to
offer
you comes from the later Methos episodes.
It's true Methos presents a rather unassuming impression when we
first meet him during the the third season. It is MNSVHO, that the scene
under the bridge where Mac defeats him, was just a test. I truly believe
Methos let Duncan win that fight...what it boils down to is that Methos
doesn't have the fire or the passion to beat someone like Kalas. Methos
has the skill and the survival instinct, that's a given, he is 5,000 years
old. He acknowledges this when Mac offers him his head-- he said he
doesn't have the fire to beat Kalas, but Duncan does, and that is why he
offered his head to Duncan, (though I suspect that Methos knew
enough about Duncan to know that Duncan wouldn't take his head). So,
even though he doesn't have the fire or passion, it doesn't mean he's
weak,
it just means he's smart and he avoids fights, whether or not he can win
them.
As far as Methos being weak, IMO, the two-part horseman story arc seems
to disprove this, (of course I've never believed he was weak)
but I don't want to spoil those episodes if you haven't seen "Comes A
Horseman" and "Revelation 6:8" yet.
Maria-- (just scratching the surface of this question)
Roseb...@aol.com
http://members.aol.com/RosebudSal/index.html
Cass
In article <336147...@bigfoot.com>, Dawn <Da...@bigfoot.com> wrote:
>Wallace wrote:
>>
>> Don't know much about highlander but if Methos is supposed to be
the
>> oldest immortal, why is he so weak compared to Kalas who almost killed
>> him...?
>>
>> Also, what determines the age that an immortal becomes immortal?
>>
>> Dawn responded:
>
>Okay, you're a newbie so I'll let you live :-)
>Here are some general rules to "live" by:
>1) Never insult Methos (or you'll get my "My name is Dawn The Evil Mad
>Scientist. You insulted my Methos. Prepare to Die." speech). <eg>
>2) Methos is not weak. Half the time we're not sure if he's faking...
>Kalas didn't take his head, and that's what counts. Methos is more
>crafty, manipulative. He prefers to dodge a fight rather than engage in
>one, and he's darn good at weasling his way out. That's one reason he's
>lived so long...
>(although I'm sure he's flashed his toes to some potential female
>opponents to mesmorize them long enough for him to make a getaway)
><grin>
>3) PREimmortals become immortals the first time they die. If they die of
>old age, we generally figure that they really die (i.e., don't become
>immortal).
>4) Methos can do no wrong (even when he does)... Don't try to make sense
>out of it. Just accept it....
>5) You will be assimilated (as a Methosian). Resistance is futile.
>
>--
>-Dawn-
>Time is the best teacher. Unfortunately, it kills all of its students.
> The Chako Rescue Association
> for the American Pit Bull Terrier
> http://members.tripod.com/~DawnC
All the above is correct except for the part of because you're a newbie I'll
let you live part. ;) I'll let you live, but I'll maime you, instead.
Methos claims to have been out of the game for 200 years. I also take it as
not practicing swordplay and he's a bit rusty. But also, if you use your
head and see that Kalas had been busy for a long time, you'd see that he's
da** good... it took Duncan a LONG time to kill him and we know how good
Duncan's sword skills are. There are several ways of fighting.
1) physical (which I'm assuming you mean)
2) Mental, which Methos and Amanda is famous for.
3)Emotional, which Cassandra is famous for.
4) Or just dumb luck which Richie is famous for (Just kidding, guys...
sheesh!)
It's alright to flame.... but geez, guy, have a little back up, huh?
Cass
cjh...@airmail.net
**A Methosian Because the alternative is unthinkable***
Mama Beast
Paul Edmonds wrote:
>
> Wallace <int...@hotmail.com> wrote
> >
> > Don't know much about highlander but if Methos is supposed to be the
> > oldest immortal, why is he so weak compared to Kalas who almost killed
> > him...?
> >
brain is better protection than his sword arm. I personally believe he
has not lost his skills at all. He may not have taken a head in 200
years but I'll bet you dollars to donuts he has kept his skills in
order. He does not like to waste anything and believes if there is some
isolated incident where his brain isn't enough he can and will bring
foreward some truly formindable skills. For some reason Methos believes
Duncan is destined to be one of the last contestants for the Prize and
will do anything necessary up to and including his own life to see that
he wins the Prize. Why? I don't know I just believe that is the case.
Anybody else have an answer?
Paul Edmonds
Wallace <int...@hotmail.com> wrote
>
> Don't know much about highlander but if Methos is supposed to be the
> oldest immortal, why is he so weak compared to Kalas who almost killed
> him...?
>
>
Kalas, whereas Methos didn't know him from Adam, (so to speak). Given a
motive, (the power of Methos Quickening added to his own) and the malice,
Kalas had an edge that Methos, (live, grow stronger, fight ANOTHER day),
couldn't match in a cold confrontation.
Immortals stop aging when they are killed for the first time.
Paul Edmonds
http://homepages.enterprise.net/edmonds/highlander.html
"Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes" - Who Watches The Watchers?
Robert Schechter
If Methos is weaker now than he was hundreds or thousands of years ago,
it's probably because he cut off all his hair. We saw him in the Bronze
Age, and he had long hair (I found it rather fetching). At some point he
cut his hair short, and the result is there for all to see. He couldn't
beat Kalas, he didn't think he would be able to beat Kronos. DM, who had
long hair, defeated each of them. Next year, who knows?
(I am back in the basket full time, after finding out that a long-time
friend who has _always_ worn his hair shoulder length just got a really
short haircut. Sheep! They are all a bunch of sheep, shearing
themselves! They drink Merlot with meals, and they never realize how
poor it is! All of them are smoking--ggaaaaaahhhh--cigars, and they
never realize how repellent it is! What is happening to men????? They
are wearing shirts with that ghastly popular lime green and fluorescent
orange and such and never understanding how *ugly* those colors are, and
how few people look good in them!)
Yes, I'll calm down. It's all right.
Eleanor
Bonnie Watts
Another thought: Methos has seen so much mortal and immortal death that he
has sort of gotten sick of it. He's not a pacifist (Like when he whacked
Christine), but he's come to respect life intensely. Kronos and Kalas were
more powerful with regards to violence because they had no consciences or
respect for life. They were killing machines. Very powerful killing
machines.
"Asta La Vista, Baby"
Bonnie
Mama Beast <mama...@linkline.com> wrote in article
<3362D8...@linkline.com>...
> Paul Edmonds wrote:
> >
> > Wallace <int...@hotmail.com> wrote
> > >
> > > Don't know much about highlander but if Methos is supposed to be the
> > > oldest immortal, why is he so weak compared to Kalas who almost
killed
> > > him...?
> > >
Jerri LaPoint
> On Fri, 25 Apr 1997, Dawn wrote:
>
of
> > old age, we generally figure that they really die (i.e., don't become
> > immortal).
Who came up with that one? We've never seen an immortal die of old age. It
would be an interesting idea for the producers to explore, but it's never
been addressed in the show.
Jerri
lettucehead
RosebudSal wrote:
>
> Maybe it's fate that determines at what age an immortal will be when
> he/she
> dies for the first time. Maybe it depends on the lifestyle the
> pre-immortal
> lives-- some die young, Michelle and Richie and others are older-- Duncan,
> Fitz, Brother Paul, Kalas, Mako, etc. But all immortals die violent
> deaths--
> Duncan was killed in battle. Richie was shot by a thug, Michelle died in
> a car accident. . . .
Didn't Amanda die of the plague? A gory and quick death but hardly
violent.
cathy lee
--
"I want to raise my freak flag,
higher and higher and,
I want to raise my freak flag,
and never be alone."
-They Might Be Giants
irrealis
Bonnie Watts wrote:
>
> Another thought: Methos has seen so much mortal and immortal death that he
> has sort of gotten sick of it. He's not a pacifist (Like when he whacked
> Christine), but he's come to respect life intensely. Kronos and Kalas were
> more powerful with regards to violence because they had no consciences or
> respect for life. They were killing machines. Very powerful killing
> machines.
>
> "Asta La Vista, Baby"
> Bonnie
This is my take on it as well, though I haven't seen most of the eps
he appeared in. It'd be hard not to be sick of most everything after
all that time; live people, while often superficially repetitive, at
least offer continuous potential for novelty. Dead people are always
the same.
irrealis
Tia Dana
Greatest American Hero wrote:
>
> On Fri, 25 Apr 1997, Dawn wrote:
>
> > 3) PREimmortals become immortals the first time they die. If they die of
> > old age, we generally figure that they really die (i.e., don't become
> > immortal).
>
> -GiL-
I think that sort of an interesting question. I suspect there are not
many very old immies for the same reason there are not many very young
immies. They are easy pickings for the physically fit immies.
If becoming an immie is brought about by death alone, and an pre-immie
is not sought out and trained by an immie, and this immie say... dies of
a heart attack... that would be such a drag. I once discussed this
topic with my highlander buddy (who is a strict lurker). We sort of
contemplated what it would be like to die a "natural death" and then
come back to life in the same shape you died in. What? An eternal
cycle of heart attacks? Well, true, you can prevent another heart
attack by certain means, but if you didn't know you were an immie, then
the possibility would be that you would keep dying a bad death (MI or
cancer or whatever) over and over and over and over and over. First,
the doctors might get suspicious. Then, the patient would likely beg
for someone to cut off his head--oh, that is, if he only knew.
I don't think immortality could be kept secret if someone died of
natural causes. There would be too many people involved in their care to
not notice the return from death... well, if not the first time, then
surely the second time <g>. I think that if they die a premature death,
immortality initiates. If they don't, they don't. JMO. Actually, I
think that few pre-immies get to old age because they are found or
sought out at younger ages.
Tia Dana
irrealis
Robert Schechter wrote:
>
> If Methos is weaker now than he was hundreds or thousands of years ago,
> it's probably because he cut off all his hair. We saw him in the Bronze
> Age, and he had long hair (I found it rather fetching). At some point he
> Eleanor
Ukk. It was a bit too girly-looking; the *idea* is fetching, but I
thought the wig looked like a Barbie option. I can't believe I'm
saying this (I'm a long-hair type every time) but dude looks damn good
in his buzz-cut.
irrealis
Morey, Kathy M
lettucehead wrote:
> Didn't Amanda die of the plague? A gory and quick death but hardly
> violent.
>
> cathy lee
> --
Actually, no, Amanda died from being hit over the head with a club when
she was caught leaving a plague house after stealing food from within.
Kathy
RosebudSal
>
>
>RosebudSal wrote:
>>
>> Maybe it's fate that determines at what age an immortal will be when
>> he/she
>> dies for the first time. Maybe it depends on the lifestyle the
>> pre-immortal
>> lives-- some die young, Michelle and Richie and others are older--
Duncan,
>> Fitz, Brother Paul, Kalas, Mako, etc. But all immortals die violent
>> deaths--
>> Duncan was killed in battle. Richie was shot by a thug, Michelle died
in
>> a car accident. . . .
>
>Didn't Amanda die of the plague? A gory and quick death but hardly
>violent.
>
>cathy lee
No. Amanda was bonked over the head by either a rock or a
brick after stealing bread from a plauge house.
Maria--
Roseb...@aol.com
http://members.aol.com/RosebudSal/index.html
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"We live with the objective of being happy: our lives are
all different and yet the same." -- Anne Frank
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dave Miller
"Wallace" <int...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Don't know much about highlander but if Methos is supposed to be the
>oldest immortal, why is he so weak compared to Kalas who almost killed
>him...?
Okay. I've watched Methos's fight scenes several times now. My
conclusion is that he is very, very good, but a bit rusty.
In the Methos/Kalas duel, Kalas comes very close to losing his head on
two different occasions. The first time this happens, Methos blocks
one of Kalas's strikes, then grabs Kalas's arm and pulls him off
balance, swinging his sword at Kalas's throat at the same time. He
misses by inches. Chalk this near miss up to 200 years of "rust."
Methos's timing was just a hair off. The second time, Methos parries
another of Kalas's strikes, again sending Kalas off balance. Kalas
ends up leaning over the bridge rail with his sword extended in
completely the wrong direction and his head exposed. Again, he would
have died right then and there if Methos's instincts were still sharp.
Instead, Methos backs off, retreating to the bridge rail. Eventually,
Kalas gains the upper hand not by skill or grace, but by simply
out-muscling Methos.
So that's twice in one brief duel that Kalas survived by pure luck ...
luck that Methos had been "out of the game too long."
Methos tends to fight exactly the same way he lives: cautiously
(perhaps over-cautiously, as when he retreated when he should have
simply whacked Kalas's head off while it was exposed) and tactically.
His fight with Silas is instructive. Early in the fight, Silas is
holding his axe parallel to the ground at shoulder level. Methos
strikes the blade of the axe with an overhead strike, forcing the axe
down. Silas follws through with an overhead strike, which Methos
ducks under, ending up behind Silas. Silas's head is stuck way out in
the open for nearly a second, and Methos sees this. He's spotted a
weakness in Silas's defense. Fast forward to the end of the fight.
Silas is again holding his axe parallel to the ground at shoulder
level. Methos's sharp mind recognizes the pattern instantly and knows
how to take advantage of it. He strikes the axe blade with an
overhead strike, and Silas again follows through with an overhead
strike. This time, Methos is ready. Instead of ducking and rolling
under the axe, Methos does this slick spin move putting him behind
Silas's exposed head. One more spin, and Silas's head rolls.
So that's Methos's fighting style: start out by cautiously probing the
opponent's defenses until he sees an opening, then manipulate the
opponent into again creating that opening. Methos is a thinking
fighter, whereas everyone else mostly gets by on reflexes (Mac) or
brute force (Kalas). Take "Leader of the Pack." I'll bet Methos
would have figured out that female dog tactic days before it occured
to Mac.
Methos isn't that weak. Look at his record. He survived his first
fight in 200 years against an opponent who, at the time, had a slight
edge on Duncan. He was defeated in a friendly sparring match by
Duncan, after Duncan had taken Kalas. (Methos's logic applies in
reverse too. A Methos who wasn't rusty might've beaten Kalas, and
might've beaten Duncan, but he couldn't beat Kalas AND Duncan. By the
end of Finale II, Duncan was a step up from Methos. Before, I'd say
they were roughly even, with Methos having a slight disadvantage from
being out of practice.) Methos was operating under the assumption
that he couldn't defeat Kronos. He beat Amanda handily, and he also
beat Silas ... two old and experienced immortals. Methos is
definitely in the upper class of immortal duelers.
To gratuitously drag someone else into this, Richie has never
demonstrated anything more than mediocre fighting skills. (By
immortal standards. If swordfighting were a standardized test, I'd
think Richie would maybe make the 70th percentile. He can beat a
whole bunch of immortals, but there are also quite a few who could
have him for breakfast. That's really pretty good for a guy who's
only been at it for a few years.) If you watch Richie fight, he
doesn't have the grace or the cunning of Methos. (Not that judging
the stage fighting skills of the actor is a particularly good way of
doing things. If it was, Methos would be a bit worse than Caspian and
quite a bit better than Mr. Same Clan Different Vintage.) Methos I'd
put in about the 95th to 97th percentile. Only the truly exceptional
can beat him.
After all, Methos can't be THAT elusive. He wouldn't have survived
5000 years if he couldn't beat most of the immortals that came looking
for him. Methos is supposed to have a terrific quickening locked up
in that wiry frame. That means that he's done a fair share of
headhunting in his life.
Wow. That post was way too long.
Dave Miller
__
david-c...@uiowa.edu
"From now on, my rallying cry is 'So what?!'"
"That's a tough cry to rally around."
"So what?!" -Calvin & Hobbes, by Bill Watterson
Elwin and Susann
That post may have been long, but it well worth the read!!
I'm new here, but not to hl, and I've always thought Methos' sword skills
were underrated. And as you so aptly put, he uses other skills besides his
arms, like his mind. Amanda uses this to her advantage often. I seem to
remember someone once saying that sword skills were good, but a quick mind
was just as important for survival. And in "Chivalry," when Methos makes
his comments to Duncan while the Katana is at Methos' throat about
progress, I really thought he was faking it - I don't think he'd show
Duncan everything in his arsenal, do you?
Dave Miller <david-c...@uiowa.edu> wrote in article
<5k1n1b$s...@flood.weeg.uiowa.edu>...
> "Wallace" <int...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
Cass
Eleanor! I love you ;) Methos is the real Hercules... MY.... OOHHH my... !
and he was quite fetching with long hair, too.
Cass __________________ ____________________
?~~~~''' _______ |~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~||~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
Y_!_!_!__|[]|[]|_ | ||cjh...@airmail.net |
{|__|__|__|__|__|\_,_|__________________||_,_|__________________|_
____//oo--o--oo-00=00_______0-0_________0-0________0-0_________0-0______
In article <3363BF...@worldnet.att.net>, Robert Schechter
<robert-s...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>If Methos is weaker now than he was hundreds or thousands of years ago,
>it's probably because he cut off all his hair. We saw him in the Bronze
>Age, and he had long hair (I found it rather fetching). At some point he
Mama Beast
EEPerdue wrote:
>
> Dave Miller,
> I totally agree with your synopsis of Methos' fighting style. Clap,
> clap, clap.
> When he offered his head to Duncan it was either out of arrogance...he
> would be the one to chose who would get his quickening...or he didn't
> really believe that DM would take his head but it would manipulate MacLeod
> into being more passionate in his fight with Kalas, as if he needed more
> reason. Methos often seems to underestimate Duncan. He was not sure DM
> could take Kalas or Kronos. I'm glad he didn't underestimate DM's ability
> to pull a strike.
> Penny aka
> eeperdue
I think it may be that Methos honestly thinks MacLeod is the best
swordmaster among the Immortals. The ROG has enough confidence in
Duncan that he doesn't mind putting him on the spot to pull Methos'
chestnuts out of the fire. I can't think of a single instance in which
the ROG was willing to put him in a situation so dangerous that Methos
didn't believe he could survive. Kalas was pure evil, I think Methos
offered his head because he didn't want his power to go to a minion of
the Dark Side. I think it far more likely that, rather than
underestimate the Highlander, Methos has almost unlimited faith in his
ability. (Now whether or not Methos believes he has enough common sense
to come in out of the rain, is entirely another question)
Mama Beasr
Cass
In article <3364c4d7...@news.shentel.net>, aunt...@shentel.net (Aunt
Mimo) wrote:
Sheesh! I'm sorry, guys... I have Hercules on the brain... I meant Samson.
:::Cass blushes and goes back to lurk mode:::
Cass
?~~~~''' _______ |~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~||~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
Y_!_!_!__|[]|[]|_ | H. Milton Peek ||cjh...@airmail.net |
{|__|__|__|__|__|\_,_|__________________||_,_|__________________|_
____//oo--o--oo-00=00_______0-0_________0-0________0-0_________0-0______
>On Sun, 27 Apr 1997 14:06:00 -0700, Robert Schechter
><robert-s...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>
><If Methos is weaker now than he was hundreds or thousands of years ago,
><it's probably because he cut off all his hair. We saw him in the Bronze
><Age, and he had long hair (I found it rather fetching). At some point he
><cut his hair short, and the result is there for all to see. He couldn't
><beat Kalas, he didn't think he would be able to beat Kronos. DM, who had
><long hair, defeated each of them. Next year, who knows?
>
>Have to agree. Didn't they learn anything after what happened to
>Samson. Methos probably knew him, you'd think he'd know better.
>
><
Dawn
Cass wrote:
>
> In article <3364c4d7...@news.shentel.net>, aunt...@shentel.net (Aunt
> Mimo) wrote:
>
> Sheesh! I'm sorry, guys... I have Hercules on the brain... I meant Samson.
> :::Cass blushes and goes back to lurk mode:::
>
> Cass
*gasp!* Cass... how dare ye mention Hercules (which, we all know, is
part of the Xena camp) on alt.tv.highlander. Look at what you've done
now: you've hurt Methos' feelings. He's sitting on the couch drowning
his sorrows in a bottle of beer and watching t.v.
Granted, he does this a lot, but its the *way* he's sipping the beer and
lounging on the couch. I can just tell. Poor guy. He won't even talk
about it. I'm sure he'd deny it (you know how he is)... but inside he's
just torn apart by your mention of Hercules... and with him slipping in
the PEOPLE POLL... just rub it in!
*Dawn glances over her shoulder at Methos - who seems oblivous to me and
is chuckling at something on the screen*
Look at that - what a chap! Putting on such a cheerful face for our
benefit....
Louise W Losos
: > 3) PREimmortals become immortals the first time they die. If they die of
: > old age, we generally figure that they really die (i.e., don't become
: > immortal).
: HEY! There's absolutely NO basis for that.....
: -GiL-
I always assumed that if an immortal dies for the first time of old age
that he would become immortal. BUT, considering his age, and more than
likely his physical strength that he would be easy prey and therefore not
live too long as an immortal.
Louise
Gregory Rae
Mama Beast <mama...@linkline.com> wrote:
>Paul Edmonds wrote:
>>
>> Wallace <int...@hotmail.com> wrote
>> >
>> > Don't know much about highlander but if Methos is supposed to be the
>> > oldest immortal, why is he so weak compared to Kalas who almost killed
>> > him...?
>> >
>I truly believe that after living 5000 years, Methos has decided his
>brain is better protection than his sword arm. I personally believe he
>has not lost his skills at all. He may not have taken a head in 200
>years but I'll bet you dollars to donuts he has kept his skills in
>order. He does not like to waste anything and believes if there is some
>isolated incident where his brain isn't enough he can and will bring
>foreward some truly formindable skills. For some reason Methos believes
>Duncan is destined to be one of the last contestants for the Prize and
>will do anything necessary up to and including his own life to see that
>he wins the Prize. Why? I don't know I just believe that is the case.
>Anybody else have an answer?
I reckon it is quite simple. Methos is attaching himself to Duncan
because all the immortals who want to fight will take the more flashy
immortal every time. Methos is just using Duncan as cover. He is very
unlikely to kill him, and he will protect him. But with someone like
Duncan as your guardian angel you get time to live and grow stronger.
Greg
Dawn
Gregory Rae wrote:
> I reckon it is quite simple. Methos is attaching himself to Duncan
> because all the immortals who want to fight will take the more flashy
> immortal every time. Methos is just using Duncan as cover. He is very
> unlikely to kill him, and he will protect him. But with someone like
> Duncan as your guardian angel you get time to live and grow stronger.
>
> Greg
Hmmmnnn while there might be some grain of truth to that, I don't really
think that's what he's doing. I mean he managed to live well over 4000
yrs before Duncan was even born...
Dave Miller
Dawn <Da...@bigfoot.com> wrote:
>Gregory Rae wrote:
>> Methos is just using Duncan as cover.
>Hmmmnnn while there might be some grain of truth to that, I don't really
>think that's what he's doing. I mean he managed to live well over 4000
>yrs before Duncan was even born...
I'm of the opinion that Methos has adopted Mac as his student. After
5000 years, Methos has gotten to the point where he no longer cares to
show new immortals the ropes. They invariably do something stupid and
get killed anyway, and that's just Methos's time down the drain. I
think he's channeling his teaching instincts into taking older,
experienced immortals who are already top notch fighters and subtly
showing them that there's more to surviving the game than fighting,
such as cunning, pragmatism, the suitable application of apathy, etc.
I think Methos looks at Mac and sees somebody strong enough to reach
the Gathering. (The REAL Gathering that occurs when only a few
immortals remain, not the Psuedo Gathering that has been going on
while new immortals are still appearing. I think immortals tend to be
a bit paranoid about the Gathering, so that whenever there is an
unusually high number of immortals in any place, some of the more
excitable immortals think "this must be the Gathering!" Methos, who
has undoubtedly seen this happen several times, suppresses a laugh.)
He also sees a naive and sometimes dangerously idealistic young guy
who, despite his skills, stands a fairly decent chance of getting
whacked by some loser who isn't above cheating. Methos is trying to
change that WITHOUT overtly acting like a teacher. (You KNOW Duncan
would hate that.) If Conner was Duncan's Immortality 101, Methos
considers himself grad school.
RosebudSal
In article <5k58g1$n...@flood.weeg.uiowa.edu>, david-c...@uiowa.edu
(Dave Miller) writes:
>
>Dawn <Da...@bigfoot.com> wrote:
>
>>> Methos is just using Duncan as cover.
I say:
No. I don't think so. Methos can protect himself quite well, and I don't
think he needs Duncan's protection.
>>>Gregory Rae wrote in response to Dawn:
>>Hmmmnnn while there might be some grain of truth to that, I don't really
>>think that's what he's doing. I mean he managed to live well over 4000
>>yrs before Duncan was even born...
I say:
Exactly. Methos is a survivor. I think he's involved in Duncan's life,
because
he truly thinks Duncan "can be" the one.
Then Dave said:
>I'm of the opinion that Methos has adopted Mac as his student. After
>5000 years, Methos has gotten to the point where he no longer cares to
>show new immortals the ropes. They invariably do something stupid and
>get killed anyway, and that's just Methos's time down the drain. I
>think he's channeling his teaching instincts into taking older,
>experienced immortals who are already top notch fighters and subtly
>showing them that there's more to surviving the game than fighting,
>such as cunning, pragmatism, the suitable application of apathy, etc.
I'll jump in here:
I see that too. But he teaches Duncan subtlely. I don't think Methos would
have the patience to take on a young student, and that is why I don't
think
we'll see him teaching Richie. Take his "Alejandro Diego Spinoza" speech
he didn't offer Mac once piece of advice about Richie, but that little
speech
got Mac to think-- if he just lets things be, Richie would be dead.
Dave again:
I think Methos looks at Mac and sees somebody strong enough to reach
>the Gathering. (The REAL Gathering that occurs when only a few
>immortals remain, not the Psuedo Gathering that has been going on
>while new immortals are still appearing. I think immortals tend to be
>a bit paranoid about the Gathering, so that whenever there is an
>unusually high number of immortals in any place, some of the more
>excitable immortals think "this must be the Gathering!" Methos, who
>has undoubtedly seen this happen several times, suppresses a laugh.)
>He also sees a naive and sometimes dangerously idealistic young guy
>who, despite his skills, stands a fairly decent chance of getting
>whacked by some loser who isn't above cheating. Methos is trying to
>change that WITHOUT overtly acting like a teacher. (You KNOW Duncan
>would hate that.) If Conner was Duncan's Immortality 101, Methos
>considers himself grad school.
Me-- one last time:
I think you're right, Methos won't admit that he's teaching Mac, but
he is doing it. If Methos didn't believe in Mac so much, I don't think
he'd risk his neck to save the Highlander. And he's done more to
save Mac, than Mac has ever done for him.
Another thing, Methos has never asked for Mac's protection.
I just had to mention that...in support of my earlier, Methos is not
weak arguement...I forgot to say that, <g>
Mama Beast
Gregory Rae wrote:
>
> Mama Beast <mama...@linkline.com> wrote:
>
> >Paul Edmonds wrote:
> >>
> >> Wallace <int...@hotmail.com> wrote
> >> >
> >> > Don't know much about highlander but if Methos is supposed to be the
> >> > oldest immortal, why is he so weak compared to Kalas who almost killed
> >> > him...?
> >> >
> >I truly believe that after living 5000 years, Methos has decided his
> >brain is better protection than his sword arm. I personally believe he
> >has not lost his skills at all. He may not have taken a head in 200
> >years but I'll bet you dollars to donuts he has kept his skills in
> >order. He does not like to waste anything and believes if there is some
> >isolated incident where his brain isn't enough he can and will bring
> >foreward some truly formindable skills. For some reason Methos believes
> >Duncan is destined to be one of the last contestants for the Prize and
> >will do anything necessary up to and including his own life to see that
> >he wins the Prize. Why? I don't know I just believe that is the case.
> >Anybody else have an answer?
>
> because all the immortals who want to fight will take the more flashy
> immortal every time. Methos is just using Duncan as cover. He is very
> unlikely to kill him, and he will protect him. But with someone like
> Duncan as your guardian angel you get time to live and grow stronger.
>
> Greg
helping MacLeod? Interesting point. Do you think Methos fancies
himself for the Prize? Perhaps to get down to the final Gathering and
pop MacLeod the big one because the Scot trusts him? The fun part of
Highlander is everyone gets an equal chance to view the characters from
their own perspective. I'm a sentimentalist and I think Methos may be
manipulative but still has his basic values. (Mind you, they may have
changed greatly since the days of the Horsement)
Mama Beast
> I think you're right, Methos won't admit that he's teaching Mac, but
> he is doing it. If Methos didn't believe in Mac so much, I don't think
> he'd risk his neck to save the Highlander. And he's done more to
> save Mac, than Mac has ever done for him.
>
> Another thing, Methos has never asked for Mac's protection.
> I just had to mention that...in support of my earlier, Methos is not
> weak arguement...I forgot to say that, <g>
>
>
can't do my fighting for me, Mac Leod" Doesn't sound much like he's
looking to MacLeod for protection.
DMVTREK
In article <5k1n1b$s...@flood.weeg.uiowa.edu>, david-c...@uiowa.edu
(Dave Miller) writes:
>In the Methos/Kalas duel, Kalas comes very close to losing his head on
>two different occasions. The first time this happens, Methos blocks
>one of Kalas's strikes, then grabs Kalas's arm and pulls him off
>balance, swinging his sword at Kalas's throat at the same time. He
>misses by inches. Chalk this near miss up to 200 years of "rust."
>Methos's timing was just a hair off. The second time, Methos parries
>another of Kalas's strikes, again sending Kalas off balance. Kalas
>ends up leaning over the bridge rail with his sword extended in
>completely the wrong direction and his head exposed. Again, he would
>have died right then and there if Methos's instincts were still sharp.
>Instead, Methos backs off, retreating to the bridge rail. Eventually,
>Kalas gains the upper hand not by skill or grace, but by simply
>out-muscling Methos.
Where did you see this ? Is it on the Eurominutes version?
Dana
Dave Miller
roseb...@aol.com (RosebudSal) wrote:
>Another thing, Methos has never asked for Mac's protection.
In fact, in "Methos" he flat out refuses it. "You cannot fight my
battles for me, MacLeod."
Dave Miller
Mama Beast <mama...@linkline.com> wrote:
>Gregory Rae wrote:
>> Methos is just using Duncan as cover.
> I'm a sentimentalist
>and I think Methos may be
>manipulative but still has his basic values.
Well, from a dramatic standpoint, I like Methos as a good guy. The
scheming villian is such a cliche, but the scheming good guy is
something we don't see nearly enough of.
Dave Miller
dmv...@aol.com (DMVTREK) wrote:
>In article <5k1n1b$s...@flood.weeg.uiowa.edu>, david-c...@uiowa.edu
>(Dave Miller) writes:
<Kalas/Methos fight synopsis snipped.>
>Where did you see this ? Is it on the Eurominutes version?
Well, I would assume it's ALSO on the Eurominutes version.
In the episode "Methos," the two battle each other. Watch closely,
and you'll see those two close calls.
Phillip and Catriona Troth
Dave Miller <david-c...@uiowa.edu> wrote in article
<5k58g1$n...@flood.weeg.uiowa.edu>...
> Dawn <Da...@bigfoot.com> wrote:
>
> >Gregory Rae wrote:
>
> >> Methos is just using Duncan as cover.
>
> >Hmmmnnn while there might be some grain of truth to that, I don't really
> >think that's what he's doing. I mean he managed to live well over 4000
> >yrs before Duncan was even born...
>
> I'm of the opinion that Methos has adopted Mac as his student. After
> 5000 years, Methos has gotten to the point where he no longer cares to
> show new immortals the ropes. They invariably do something stupid and
> get killed anyway, and that's just Methos's time down the drain. I
> think he's channeling his teaching instincts into taking older,
> experienced immortals who are already top notch fighters and subtly
> showing them that there's more to surviving the game than fighting,
> such as cunning, pragmatism, the suitable application of apathy, etc.
>
> I think Methos looks at Mac and sees somebody strong enough to reach
> the Gathering. (The REAL Gathering that occurs when only a few
> immortals remain, not the Psuedo Gathering that has been going on
> while new immortals are still appearing. I think immortals tend to be
> a bit paranoid about the Gathering, so that whenever there is an
> unusually high number of immortals in any place, some of the more
> excitable immortals think "this must be the Gathering!" Methos, who
> has undoubtedly seen this happen several times, suppresses a laugh.)
> He also sees a naive and sometimes dangerously idealistic young guy
> who, despite his skills, stands a fairly decent chance of getting
> whacked by some loser who isn't above cheating. Methos is trying to
> change that WITHOUT overtly acting like a teacher. (You KNOW Duncan
> would hate that.) If Conner was Duncan's Immortality 101, Methos
> considers himself grad school.
I think you're right. I've always thought that one of the reasons that
Methos hit the show like a breath of fresh air was that for once we didn't
have someone saying (a la Grace to Tessa) 'Don't you ever get tired of
living with a man who knows everything?'
Methos doesn't think Mac knows everything. Quite a lot of the time he
things he thinks he's a naive, idealistic kid. It's not such a big leap
from that to imagine that Methos thinks that Duncan could do with a lesson
or two. (Think of the end of Valkyrie: 'Oh, yes. There's an answer.
It's just a question of whether you're ready to hear it.' Very teacherly
<g>.) And yes, he wouldn't _dream_ of letting Duncan catch him at it <vbg>
Master manipulator indeed ;-)
Kat
PS All quotes a paraphrases - but I think I've got the gist.
SPIN9R
In article <3362D8...@linkline.com>, Mama Beast
<mama...@linkline.com> writes:
>I truly believe that after living 5000 years, Methos has decided his
>brain is better protection than his sword arm. I personally believe he
>has not lost his skills at all. He may not have taken a head in 200
>years but I'll bet you dollars to donuts he has kept his skills in
>order.
it occurs to me to chime in here to share what i have heard is one of the
oldest rules in any fighting game: never let 'em know exactly how good you
are or everything you can do. duncan has done exactly that on several
occasions.
methos is far too wily not to use this tactic. it is always better if
your opponent thinks you are too old, too rusty, too poorly trained, too
out of shape, too dumb and much too vulnerable to be very wary of.
that's how the cat can catch a canary for breakfast.
spin9r
Mama Beast
have a 747 for midmorning snack. There is nothing better than hiding in
plain sight. In fact, someone way, way back in this discussion
mentioned that most opponents would go for Mac Leod as the more dramatic
and obvious opponent. While in fact, the old man, hangs around in the
backgroud. I'll betcha in a pinch he would be more than capable of
stepping in and physically saving Duncan's bacon. Just, why waste the
effort? After all, hasn't he gotten involved more times on the Scots
behalf than we have ever seen the opposite. There is that terrible but
true old joke about the two bulls standing on the hilltop looking over
the heifers. The young one says "Let's run down there and get one" The
old bull studies the situation for a minute and says "Let's walk down
and get them all"
Jim P.
In some newsgroup <CD4D0CD7D8AE6242.19E8D045...@library-proxy.airnews.net>
"Cass" <cjh...@airmail.net> talked about:
> In article <3364c4d7...@news.shentel.net>, aunt...@shentel.net (Aunt
> Mimo) wrote:
>
[snip]
>>Have to agree. Didn't they learn anything after what happened to
>>Samson. Methos probably knew him, you'd think he'd know better.
Maybe Methos was Samson? Face it, he would know he
could walk away when the pillars fell.
----
Jim P.
mailto://jim...@dnaco.net
Check out the Official Darwin Award Home Page at:
http://www.dnaco.net/~jimpen/darwin/darwin.html
Ms C Goodall
In article <3365EA...@bigfoot.com>, Da...@bigfoot.com
(Dawn) wrote:
> Gregory Rae wrote:
> (snip)
> > Methos is just using Duncan as cover. He is
> > very unlikely to kill him, and he will protect him.
(snip)
> I mean he managed to live well over 4000
> yrs before Duncan was even born...
> --
> -Dawn-
>
I suspect that in all that time Methos has had many
protectors who are now no more. Perhaps that's what happened
200 years ago, his last one was killed and Methos went into
hiding until another one could be found.
Clare (new to the newsgroup so be gentle)
baby
Methos is not weak. Duh? Here comes a horseman? Maybe he had a *good*
quickening
and now has changed. remember....."I'm not like that anymore....I have
changed? Remember the look Methos gave Kronos when he said. You think you
have changed....don't you miss the power": or something to that effect.
Kate Spilker
Dave Miller wrote:
>
> >Gregory Rae wrote:
>
> >> Methos is just using Duncan as cover.
>
> >and I think Methos may be
> >manipulative but still has his basic values.
>
> Well, from a dramatic standpoint, I like Methos as a good guy. The
> scheming villian is such a cliche, but the scheming good guy is
> something we don't see nearly enough of.
>
> Dave Miller
Besides which, complex characters are soooo much more interesting.
A one-track mind is completely boring!
:)
Kate
Dawn
Kate Spilker wrote:
> > Well, from a dramatic standpoint, I like Methos as a good guy. The
> > scheming villian is such a cliche, but the scheming good guy is
> > something we don't see nearly enough of.
> >
> > Dave Miller
>
> Besides which, complex characters are soooo much more interesting.
> A one-track mind is completely boring!
>
> :)
> Kate
Hey now! *mock indignation* I take offense to that!
(me and my one-track Methos mind).
He He He... :-)
Paul Edmonds
lettucehead <cl...@erols.com> wrote after RosebudSal wrote:
> >
> > Maybe it's fate that determines at what age an immortal will be when
he/she
> > dies for the first time. Maybe it depends on the lifestyle the
pre-immortal lives
>
> Didn't Amanda die of the plague? A gory and quick death but hardly
violent.
>
I seem to remember that Duncan said to Felice in "Free Fall" something
about it being her "time", when he was under the impression that she had
felt compelled to throw herself off a tall building. This seemed to imply
that the Immortals are predestined to live for a limited mortal life before
dying, either violently or otherwise. He was angry with Walter Bellman in
"Timeless", because Bellman terminated Claudia's mortal life.
I know "Free Fall" was very early, but it could be argued that it's part of
the Rules that Immortals don't kill pre-Immortals. This would explain
Reinhardt not taking Richie's head in "Revenge Is Sweet". Unfortunately,
that bright idea is rather undermined by the Kurgan going after a mortal
Connor in the original HL, but it's a thought.
Paul Edmonds
http://homepages.enterprise.net/edmonds/highlander.html
"Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes" - Who Watches The Watchers?
vincent radford
> I know "Free Fall" was very early, but it could be argued that it's part of
> the Rules that Immortals don't kill pre-Immortals. This would explain
> Reinhardt not taking Richie's head in "Revenge Is Sweet". Unfortunately,
> that bright idea is rather undermined by the Kurgan going after a mortal
> Connor in the original HL, but it's a thought.
Heh. Since when did the Kurgan play by the rules?
-Vince
Paul Edmonds
vincent radford wrote after I wrote
prepared to abide by the Holy Ground Rule, he ensured that none of the
Frasers fought Connor, so that it was one on one, (although he wanted to
ensure that he got Connor and not anyone else).
WarAngel
On Thu, 1 May 1997, vincent radford wrote:
> > I know "Free Fall" was very early, but it could be argued that it's part of
> > the Rules that Immortals don't kill pre-Immortals. This would explain
> > Reinhardt not taking Richie's head in "Revenge Is Sweet". Unfortunately,
> > that bright idea is rather undermined by the Kurgan going after a mortal
> > Connor in the original HL, but it's a thought.
>
>
> Heh. Since when did the Kurgan play by the rules?
Remember the confrontation in the Church in the first movie? Connor wanted
to go at the Kurgan then and there, but the Kurgan rebuked him: "Holy
Groud, Highlander! Remember what Ramirez taught you."
WarAngel
Matt Beckwith
The question is: Why is Methos so weak a -personality-? You'd think
after living so long he'd have some wisdom. In one episode he says
that he's just a regular guy, with all the usual weaknesses and
foibles. This isn't consistent with having lived such a long life.
Most people who've lived even 80 years--those who still have their
health and mental capacities--have a certain appreciation of life and
people. The vast majority of the immortals on the show do not.
There seems to be an unwritten agreement among the show's writers that
immortals retain the level of maturity of the age at which they became
immortal. Thus, Kenny though 800 years old was still a boy. But this
is not consistent with the way life works. Life gives us experiences,
and these experiences change us.
Duncan McLeod, fortunately, has gained wisdom over the 400 years of
his life.
Did any of you see that vampire movie Near Dark? The little kid who
was really an old man may have looked superficially young, but he was
quite the adult in a creepy sort of way. This is the way Kenny should
have appeared.
Methos, though a young man on the outside, should be practically The
Buddha on the inside.
Dave Miller
After seeing "Chivalry" again I've given some more thought to Methos's
fighting skills.
I think some of Methos's "problem" (if you call not being able to beat
top notch immortals like Mac, Kalas, or Kronos a problem) stems from
that sword that he insists on carrying. The sword has a long thick
blade and a one-handed hilt. This seems remarkably awkward.
The sword seems too heavy to be quickly swung with one hand, but the
short handle makes it awkward to be used with two hands. Thus,
Methos's fights with his weapon of choice always seem slow and a bit
clumsy. I know that if I had to choose a sword that I would
frequently use to stay alive, Methos's sword would NOT be it.
Now watch "Chivalry," where Methos mock battles MacLeod with Mac's
katana. The awkwardness of Methos's other fights is gone. In fact,
this little sparring session is one of the better fight scenes ever
filmed for Highlander. The fight choreography is fast and clean, and
it doesn't have that steady rhythm that characterizes most stage
fights. Despite the fact that Methos gets beat, he puts on a very
nice display with that katana, especially considering that it's not
his weapon of choice. Maybe it SHOULD be his weapon of choice.
Dawn
Matt Beckwith wrote:
>
> The question is: Why is Methos so weak a -personality-? You'd think
> after living so long he'd have some wisdom. In one episode he says
> that he's just a regular guy, with all the usual weaknesses and
> foibles. This isn't consistent with having lived such a long life.
*SNIP*
> There seems to be an unwritten agreement among the show's writers that
> immortals retain the level of maturity of the age at which they became
> immortal. *SNIP*
> Life gives us experiences,
> and these experiences change us.
> Methos, though a young man on the outside, should be practically The
> Buddha on the inside.
Aaah, Grasshopper, but Methos has gained wisdom and experience. Watch
and listen - closely. He doesn't flaunt it, but he's learned the value
of "butting out". He does get involved, when the situation merits it. He
just doesn't tell people how they should live their lives, he doesn't go
out of his way to give them advice, and he doesn't try to put himself up
as some reverent sage. Look at what happened with the "fake" Methos.
Methos isn't interested in "leading" a bunch of naive followers. That's
why when Richie asked Methos: "Any words of wisdom, Old Timer?" Methos
looked slightly annoyed and said, "Nope."
Methos has learned to "live and let live". Times change. Civilizations
rise and fall. There is almost nothing new under the sun... yadda yadda
yadda.
A "weak personality" he is not.
*grrrrrrr....*
<g>
--
-Dawn-
Time is the best teacher. Unfortunately, it kills all of its students.
The Chako Rescue Association
for the American Pit Bull Terrier, Inc.
http://members.tripod.com/~DawnC
A sanctuary for an endangered breed
dave mangels
WarAngel (wara...@angelic.org) wrote:
Reinhardt didn't take Richie's head for a good reason: there would be no
quickenning from a nascient immortal. The quickenning is still dormant.
You would have to sit around and wait for him to come back to life as an
immortal.
I think that's a sort of unspoken rule: No beheading nascient immortals.
That would be an unfair advantage, since not only do they not know about
immortals, but they don't sense them, either.
Jane Jackson
> > The question is: Why is Methos so weak ?
> > Buddha on the inside.
>
> Aaah, Grasshopper, but Methos has gained wisdom and experience. Watch
> and listen - closely. He doesn't flaunt it, but he's learned the value
> of "butting out". He does get involved, when the situation merits it. He
> just doesn't tell people how they should live their lives, he doesn't go
> out of his way to give them advice, and he doesn't try to put himself up
> as some reverent sage. >
> *grrrrrrr....*
> <g>
BESIDES, SINCE WHEN DOES REFUSING TO RESORT TO PHYSICAL VIOLENCE MAKE
ONE "WEAK" ???
Jette Goldie
>After seeing "Chivalry" again I've given some more thought to Methos's
>fighting skills.
>
>I think some of Methos's "problem" (if you call not being able to beat
>top notch immortals like Mac, Kalas, or Kronos a problem) stems from
>that sword that he insists on carrying. The sword has a long thick
>blade and a one-handed hilt. This seems remarkably awkward.
>The sword seems too heavy to be quickly swung with one hand, but the
>short handle makes it awkward to be used with two hands. Thus,
>Methos's fights with his weapon of choice always seem slow and a bit
>clumsy. I know that if I had to choose a sword that I would
>frequently use to stay alive, Methos's sword would NOT be it.
>
Sheesh!! That kind of sword is often used as a 'hand and a half' sword
- ie you grip it with your right hand and use the left hand cupped
around the pommel to guide it. Quite an easy technique. If I was
picking a sword, Methos's would be preferable to a katana - my
training is all with European weapons, not Japanese, and you can't
block worth a da** with a katana
Methos is not really as awkward with a sword as he would have you
believe. The sparring in Chivalry is a demonstration of that.
Jette Goldie (Joe's my jo!!)
******************************************
boss*lady@ed*net.co.uk(remove anti-spam asterisks when replying)
http://www.ednet.co.uk/~bosslady/
Home of the new and improved Highlander Fan's Tour of Scotland
*********************************************
Velia Tanner and Friends
In article <33692e3e...@news.southeast.net> beck...@pop.southeast.net (Matt Beckwith) writes:
>The question is: Why is Methos so weak a -personality-? You'd think
>after living so long he'd have some wisdom. In one episode he says
>that he's just a regular guy, with all the usual weaknesses and
>foibles. This isn't consistent with having lived such a long life.
Methos *says* a lot of things that aren't true.....
>Methos, though a young man on the outside, should be practically The
>Buddha on the inside.
Dja catch the Valkyrie?
I think Methos is old enough to have passed through every phase of
"enlightenment," and realized that no one knows anything, the world is just
beyond the ability of man to fully know, and certainly not control. So he
just "goes with the flow." Anyone (like the Fake Methos) claiming to have
the answers must look to him like a College Sophomore spouting Philosophy
101 looks to an 80-year old Holocaust survivor.
V.
--
=========================================================
VE...@NETCOM.COM | Dark Seraph explains it all 2U
"I'm not good I'm not nice I'm just RIGHT, I'm the Witch"
- Into The Woods
"Me dream hot fluff." -- magnetic poem of the day, 4/25
=========================================================
irrealis
Matt Beckwith wrote:
> Methos, though a young man on the outside, should be practically The
> Buddha on the inside.
I d'know about that... I mean, unless the immortal mind is constructed
very differently from the regular human mind, a person who's lived as
long as *that* has to be at least a little on the wiggy side. There's
prob'ly a Buddha in there- but I bet he's playing cards with the Mad
Hatter.
Consider the (possibly superficial) difference between the current nice
boy and ol' blue-face; a change like that isn't accomplished without a
*lot* of pain. So, yeah, he's wise, but he's damaged. The Buddha
probably keeps things under control most of the time, but you never know
when the Hatter will win a hand and the damage will show.
JMHO, and of course, a big reason why the character's so cool.
irrealis
------
you cannot make any hard and fast rule concerning the morality of
crawling into soup nor anything else; a certain alloy of expediency
improves the gold of morality and makes it wear all the longer
-archy the cockroach (semicolon added by irrealis)
------
Dawn
Al Cleveland wrote:
*snip*
> Most decidedly not! It takes a very strong and self-aware person to
> know one's limits. Methos knows what he's willing to do, and he
> resists it when people try to push him into holes that don't fit. One
> of the 5,000 reasons I'm more than passing fond of the Old Guy...:)
Only 5000 reasons? ;-)
> Jinjifore
> jinj...@nashville.com
> Highlander Synopses: http://www.yak.net/ian/jinjifore/index.html
>
> "Animals loose in a car are never a good idea. Goats are generally the
> worst, but until you realise there's a tortoise stuck under your brake
> pedal you've never known the meaning of fear, and possibly not
> the meaning of 'old age' either." --Terry Pratchett, _The
> Unadulterated Cat_.
ROTFL!!!! :-)
Al Cleveland
Dawn <Da...@bigfoot.com> Sat, 03 May 1997 11:06:21 -0500
>
>Matt Beckwith wrote:
>>
>> The question is: Why is Methos so weak a -personality-? You'd think
>> after living so long he'd have some wisdom. In one episode he says
>> that he's just a regular guy, with all the usual weaknesses and
>> foibles. This isn't consistent with having lived such a long life.
>
>*SNIP*
>
>> There seems to be an unwritten agreement among the show's writers that
>> immortals retain the level of maturity of the age at which they became
>> immortal. *SNIP*
>> Life gives us experiences,
>> and these experiences change us.
>
>
>> Methos, though a young man on the outside, should be practically The
>> Buddha on the inside.
That's why I'm really annoyed that they changed the title of "The
Messenger" from "Old and Wise." We had two Methoses, one old,
one wise, and the contrast between them said oodles about the
ROG, and the way he feels about wisdom as opposed to survival.
After all, that little "A lot of people might want the head of a
5,000-year-old man" as opposed to "A lot of people might want to
listen to a 5,000-year-old man" pretty much sums up how the One
and Only True Methos feels about becoming another Darius.
>
>Aaah, Grasshopper, but Methos has gained wisdom and experience. Watch
>and listen - closely. He doesn't flaunt it, but he's learned the value
>of "butting out". He does get involved, when the situation merits it. He
>just doesn't tell people how they should live their lives, he doesn't go
>out of his way to give them advice, and he doesn't try to put himself up
>as some reverent sage. Look at what happened with the "fake" Methos.
>Methos isn't interested in "leading" a bunch of naive followers. That's
>why when Richie asked Methos: "Any words of wisdom, Old Timer?" Methos
>looked slightly annoyed and said, "Nope."
Furthermore, I think that the Old Man is smart enough to know that
being Mentor to the Immortal World isn't a cushy job, and he's
perfectly willing to let others handle it. I was really impressed with
"The Messenger" for showing Just How Easy it would be for
Methos to become a guru, and to hint to us how much he *doesn't*
want that mantle. Harrassing Duncan 'cause he's worried about him
is another story...:)
Here's another thought: Imagine how Dunkie would have felt if the
Cute Aged Gent *had* allowed him to treat him like the Font of
Immortal Wisdom (which he seemed bent on doing in "Methos" and
even "Finale") and then had found out about the Horseman. Our
dear boy scout was betrayed and hurt enough as it was, imagine
how he'd've reacted if he'd felt that the ROG had set himself up as a
dispenser of wisdom and model of immortal behavior. Sure, Darius
did that, but Methos knows that he's not Darius, and knows better
than to try to be. He wants to help Duncan, but he does it on *his*
terms, and in the way he knows best.
>
>Methos has learned to "live and let live". Times change. Civilizations
>rise and fall. There is almost nothing new under the sun... yadda yadda
>yadda.
>
>A "weak personality" he is not.
Most decidedly not! It takes a very strong and self-aware person to
know one's limits. Methos knows what he's willing to do, and he
resists it when people try to push him into holes that don't fit. One
of the 5,000 reasons I'm more than passing fond of the Old Guy...:)
Jinjifore
Robert Spettigue
I've seen variations on 3 basic theories here
1. Metho's is helping Duncan so Duncan can
win the prize.
2. Methos is using Duncan as his protector.
3. Methos is helping Duncan to gain his trust and will wack
him later.
My own theory is that Methos is a pragmatist who's taken a liking to
Duncan. He presently enjoys Duncan's company and wishes him well, but
will fight him if it becomes necessary. At that point he'll show
himself to be a better swordsman than we'd anticipate. I think Duncan
can trust him until it's in methos' best interests to take him on.
Robert Spettigue
Damn good point val. Basically you're saying that a seekers best
insight is that you can gather all the facts and insights you want, but
in the end ultimate reality is elusive. So, you become very
pragmatic . You must be pretty bright .
Dave Miller
boss...@ednet.co.uk (Jette Goldie) wrote:
>On Sat, 3 May 1997 04:05:19 GMT, david-c...@uiowa.edu (Dave
>Miller) wrote:
>>I think some of Methos's "problem" (if you call not being able to beat
>>top notch immortals like Mac, Kalas, or Kronos a problem) stems from
>>that sword that he insists on carrying. The sword has a long thick
>>blade and a one-handed hilt. This seems remarkably awkward.
>Sheesh!! That kind of sword is often used as a 'hand and a half' sword
>- ie you grip it with your right hand and use the left hand cupped
>around the pommel to guide it. Quite an easy technique.
I've never used or even held a sword of like Methos's. Methos
certainly makes it look heavy. It seems like he has to get a rather
large wind-up before he can swing the sword with any force. I'd think
that would be a huge disadvantage against a guy like Mac, who can get
a very quick strike with a snap of the wrists.
>Methos is not really as awkward with a sword as he would have you
>believe. The sparring in Chivalry is a demonstration of that.
That's what I'm trying to understand. Methos looked a hell of a lot
better in Chivalry than he ever has before or since. I thought the
difference was probably due to the sword.
You mention that it's tough to block with a katana. It seems like
Methos tends to be a very defensive fighter, preferring to
counter-attack at opportune times rather than attack. Maybe his sword
is more suited to that type of fighting than a katana.
Then again, what the hell do I know?
One thing is for sure, "weak" is not the word I would use to describe
the man who brought about the destruction of the Four Horsemen.
I'd be more likely to choose a phrase like "the most dangerous
immortal alive."
Tia Dana
Matt Beckwith wrote:
>
> The question is: Why is Methos so weak a -personality-? You'd think
> after living so long he'd have some wisdom. In one episode he says
> that he's just a regular guy, with all the usual weaknesses and
> foibles. This isn't consistent with having lived such a long life.
>
> health and mental capacities--have a certain appreciation of life and
> people. The vast majority of the immortals on the show do not.
>
> immortals retain the level of maturity of the age at which they became
> and these experiences change us.
>
> his life.
>
> Did any of you see that vampire movie Near Dark? The little kid who
> was really an old man may have looked superficially young, but he was
> quite the adult in a creepy sort of way. This is the way Kenny should
> have appeared.
>
> Buddha on the inside.
I agree. A friend asked the same question about Kenny, and all I could
guestimate is that although you may grow in years and intelligence, you
probably stagnate in emotional growth. Kenny was killed at an age when
he was pretty emotionally underdeveloped. His logic is concrete and his
view of the world pretty 2D. In fact, when Kenny kissed Amanda on the
lips as if to show her that inside he's no longer a kid... I was, well,
first sickened then annoyed because I couldn't decide what TPTB were
trying to convey: a brat or a conniving man in a brat body? Which then
made Kenny character inconsistent to me. I think he does not have the
capacity to mature or else he wouldn't wack off his only friends. OTOH,
some K'immies are only interested in obtaining the prize, and Kenny is
definitely one of them.
Interestingly, I like the fact that Duncan matures and learns from his
experiences and tries to live by the lessons he has learned, but I think
that some of the Duncan critics feel this attitude makes him
self-righteous appearing. I think that Duncan's attitude is right on the
money because he actually has the ability to grow as a character whereas
Methos plateaued in whatever comfort zone his personality preferred. I
also think Duncan with this "self righteous" attitude is pushing Methos
to look inward again and re-evaluate his conscience thus possibly
helping Methos become a better person. :) JMO.
Tia Dana
Dave Miller
>Matt Beckwith wrote:
>> Most people who've lived even 80 years--those who still have their
>> health and mental capacities--have a certain appreciation of life and
>> people. The vast majority of the immortals on the show do not.
>> There seems to be an unwritten agreement among the show's writers that
>> immortals retain the level of maturity of the age at which they became
>> immortal. Thus, Kenny though 800 years old was still a boy. But this
>> is not consistent with the way life works. Life gives us experiences,
>> and these experiences change us.
I wonder though. Immortals and aged mortals are not exactly in the
same boat. How much of an 80 year old's appreciation of life and
people comes from being around for 80 years, and how much comes from
a more acute awareness of his own mortality? Immortals may experience
the former but not the latter. Conversely, how much
of a child's behavior is due to a lack of life experiences, and how
much is due to the fact that they're stuck in a small weak body and
are dependent on adults?
If the mind was independent of the body, then I would agree that an
eight hundred year old in a kid's body wouldn't think like at all like
a kid. However, I'm hardy convinced that the mind is independent of
the body. That makes it hard to say what would constitute a realistic
pattern of emotional maturation for an immortal.
Monkysquat
In article <Pine.SGI.3.95.970502...@shellx.best.com>,
WarAngel <wara...@angelic.org> writes:
Nitpick, Immortals are never mortals. They just don't know that
they can't die.
Tim
CdrHaworth
to add to this. Brenda saved Connor after they fell through the skylight.
wihtout here "interfering" Kurgan would have won. (oaky that rule was
invented for the series and never mentioned in the film)
Ed
"From the dawn of time we came ... struggling to reach the time of the gathering, when the few who remain will battle to the last."
-Juan Sanchez Villa-Lobos Ramirez
"At last, The Gathering..."
-The Kurgan
"There can be only one!"
-Connor MacLeod
LordPapaly
As to the Kurgan and the Holy Ground reminder..
Like all bad guys, he flaunts and tauts the rules
whenever it suites him. For people like him rules
are made to be broken. For the good guys, rules
give structure and comfort, that things should be
done in a just-so manner.IMHO
Dave Miller
met...@ii.ca (Ed Tang) wrote:
>On Wed, 30 Apr 1997 04:56:42 GMT, david-c...@uiowa.edu (Dave
>Miller) wrote:
>>>Another thing, Methos has never asked for Mac's protection.
>>
>>In fact, in "Methos" he flat out refuses it. "You cannot fight my
>>battles for me, MacLeod."
>Can we say "reverse psychology"?
>I knew we could! :)
I don't think it pays to over-analyze Methos's statements in his first
appearance. What possible motive would reverse psychology play here?
Reverse psychology is the process of getting somebody to do what you
want by telling them the opposite of what you want. If Methos wants
Mac's protection, and Mac offers his protection, I don't see the value
of reverse psychology. In fact, since Methos ends up facing Kalas
without Mac around, any reverse psychology that Methos tried must have
been completely inept. That's not particularly characteristic of
Methos.
Now, the scene where Methos offers Mac his head ... THAT scene bears
close scrutiny. After all, we saw how easily Methos solved his
problem and stayed alive. He simply had Kalas arrested. I find it
hard to believe that this never occured to him before he gave Mac a
crack at his head.
On the other hand, this seems like a VERY extreme trust-building
guesture.
I think Methos offered Mac his head because Methos was still in a bit
of shock over having nearly been beaten by Kalas. He panicked a bit,
and overreacted. After he had time to calm down, he came up with the
far more pragmatic delaying tactic of having Kalas arrested.
Methos is smart. Methos is crafty. Methos is a manipulative son of a
bitch. Methos may very well be the most dangerous immortal alive. I
just don't think Methos is some sort of mastermind whose every word
hides plans within schemes within plans. He can come up with
brilliant plans if he has time. When he has to improvise, he's
generally not much better than anyone else. (Revealing his
immortality to what's-her-name to stop her from going public with the
Watcher Chronicles in "Finale" sure didn't work out so well.)
Still, it usually pays to think when Methos speaks. I almost always
ask "Why did Methos say that," especially when he's speaking to Mac.
There's a conversation in "Revelation 6:8" where Methos tells Mac
"What I've done, you can't forgive." Does Methos really believe that?
Hell no. However, he speeds up the process by essentially challenging
Mac to forgive him. We all know how Mac responds to a challenge.
"You can't forgive me." "Oh yeah? Watch THIS!" Very clever.
Dawn
Dave Miller wrote:
*SNIP*
> Still, it usually pays to think when Methos speaks. I almost always
> ask "Why did Methos say that," especially when he's speaking to Mac.
> There's a conversation in "Revelation 6:8" where Methos tells Mac
> "What I've done, you can't forgive." Does Methos really believe that?
> Hell no. However, he speeds up the process by essentially challenging
> Mac to forgive him. We all know how Mac responds to a challenge.
> "You can't forgive me." "Oh yeah? Watch THIS!" Very clever.
ROTFL! Thanks for that little tidbit. It's classic Duncan.
Jim P.
In some newsgroup <336f8a73...@news.southeast.net>
beck...@pop.southeast.net (Matt Beckwith) talked about:
> david-c...@uiowa.edu (Dave Miller) wrote:
>
[snip]
> One thing that gets me is that immortals never work. They never have
> jobs. Are they just people of leisure? Have they decided that
> there's no reason to make a contribution in the world? Duncan has
> from time to time had jobs (such as as a medic in WW II), but doesn't
> seem to have one in the present.
Think of this - in current times you can put away $25-50K in savings
at age 18 and be worth 1-3 million by the time you are 65 years
old by investing
You are also carrying around a sword worth $20K minimum.
In addition by putting away trinkets in your time and selling
them a 100 years later will build you some bucks. What
is a complete set of plate armor made in the 12-13 century
in pristine condition worth today? $20-30K?
Just my $.02,
---
Jim P.
mailto://jim...@dnaco.net
Check out the Official Darwin Award Home Page at:
http://www.dnaco.net/~jimpen/darwin/darwin.html
Sharon Kazmierski
In article <5kh65r$4k2$1...@newsd-106.bryant.webtv.net>, Robert Spettigue
<Spet...@webtv.net> wrote:
I don't think that there is a "prize," at least not as the show is currently
written. I, personally, think that the line "there can be only one" is
completely misinterpreted. Having watched the Dark Quickening episodes
on USA this week, I'm pretty thorougly convinced that the "one" is NOT
an immortal (like Duncan or Methos.)
I think there are really 2 possibilities. One is that there is no Game and
no Prize. I have had the sneaking suspicion that some very old Immortal
(Methos?) made up the whole story. If you look at the Comes a Horseman and
Revelations episodes, you see that Bronze Age Immortals were not interested
in the "Game" at all, not even now. Perhaps Methos, sick and tired of the
immortals, made up this story so they would kill each other off, and it got
out of hand.
The second possibility I am toying with, after watching the Dark Quickening
episodes, with all their Christian imagery (ie. the baptism, the exorcism,
Duncan praying for help, etc.) is that there is a battle between Good and
Evil being waged through the Immortals. It's as if they are the soldiers
in the war between Good and Evil or God and the Devil. Remember, Immortals
never fight on holy ground -- this would be God's turf. Perhaps it is that
these battles must take place on neutral territory. Also, consider the
titles of recent episodes: Comes a Horseman, Revelation, Archangel,
Something Wicked, Deliverance, etc. There's even an episode coming up where
the dead walk the streets.
Sharon Kazmierski
--
Sharon Kazmierski, Latin Teacher
summer
Sharon Kazmierski wrote:
>
> In article <5kh65r$4k2$1...@newsd-106.bryant.webtv.net>, Robert Spettigue
> <Spet...@webtv.net> wrote:
>
> > I've seen variations on 3 basic theories here
> >
> > 1. Metho's is helping Duncan so Duncan can
> > win the prize.
> >
> > 2. Methos is using Duncan as his protector.
> >
> > 3. Methos is helping Duncan to gain his trust and will wack
> > him later.
> >
> > My own theory is that Methos is a pragmatist who's taken a liking to
> > Duncan.
>
> The second possibility I am toying with, after watching the Dark Quickening
> with all their Christian imagery (ie. the baptism, the exorcism,
> Duncan praying for help, etc.) is that there is a battle between Good and
> Evil being waged through the Immortals.
> Also, consider the
> titles of recent episodes: Comes a Horseman, Revelation, Archangel,
> Something Wicked, Deliverance, etc. There's even an episode coming up where
> the dead walk the streets.
>
> Sharon Kazmierski
>
>
> Sharon Kazmierski, Latin Teacher
There have been several references to the battle btw good and evil
throughout the series--starting with the 1st ep. I think that is
probably accurate--not delusions of grandeur.
As to DM/ROG's relationship, I see it in simpler terms than many seem
to: I think they just like each other. Friends don't always see eye-
to-eye (and these 2 certainly don't). That makes their relationship
interesting and believable. If they end up as the last 2--if there
_is_ an instinctive urge to annihilate the 2nd to last one--they'll
fight. If Methos made up the gathering, they won't. Just MHO of
course.
I believe this thread began before my time and I don't understand the
header: Methos certainly doesn't seem weak to me--never has. He is
quite complicated and has become more so as time has gone on. He often
works against his own best interests while assuring anyone who will
listen that he is a pragmatist. And besides all that--he's just so
_beautiful_!
Anne
sco...@ibm.net
In article <kazmier-ya0240800...@news.novia.net>,
kaz...@novia.net (Sharon Kazmierski) wrote:
>
> In article <5kh65r$4k2$1...@newsd-106.bryant.webtv.net>, Robert Spettigue
> <Spet...@webtv.net> wrote:
>
> > I've seen variations on 3 basic theories here
> >
> > 1. Metho's is helping Duncan so Duncan can
> > win the prize.
> >
> > 2. Methos is using Duncan as his protector.
> >
> > 3. Methos is helping Duncan to gain his trust and will wack
> > him later.
> >
> > My own theory is that Methos is a pragmatist who's taken a liking to
> > will fight him if it becomes necessary. At that point he'll show
> > himself to be a better swordsman than we'd anticipate. I think Duncan
> > can trust him until it's in methos' best interests to take him on.
>
> I don't think that there is a "prize," at least not as the show is currently
> written. I, personally, think that the line "there can be only one" is
> completely misinterpreted. Having watched the Dark Quickening episodes
> on USA this week, I'm pretty thorougly convinced that the "one" is NOT
> an immortal (like Duncan or Methos.)
>
> I think there are really 2 possibilities. One is that there is no Game and
> no Prize. I have had the sneaking suspicion that some very old Immortal
> (Methos?) made up the whole story. If you look at the Comes a Horseman and
> Revelations episodes, you see that Bronze Age Immortals were not interested
> in the "Game" at all, not even now. Perhaps Methos, sick and tired of the
> immortals, made up this story so they would kill each other off, and it got
> out of hand.
>
> Duncan praying for help, etc.) is that there is a battle between Good and
> in the war between Good and Evil or God and the Devil. Remember, Immortals
> never fight on holy ground -- this would be God's turf. Perhaps it is that
> titles of recent episodes: Comes a Horseman, Revelation, Archangel,
> Something Wicked, Deliverance, etc. There's even an episode coming up where
> the dead walk the streets.
>
> Sharon Kazmierski
>
> Sharon Kazmierski, Latin Teacher
Great idea, Sharon. It certainly ties in with what you see in the
Quicktime Video teaser for that episode (Archangel) and what AP said in
his AP article about DM dealing with an new evil, how he changes his
spirituality, comes to a new level of non-violence, and how he'll be
chasing this new evil throughout next season. Short as it will be. 13
episodes. Hope that's not an omen..
Beth S.
-------------------==== Posted via Deja News ====-----------------------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Post to Usenet
KastagirDM
Methos isn't weak, but that's not why I'm writing. When he offered his
head to Duncan, it was because he was rusty and couldn't beat Kalas at the
time. He knew that if Kalas took Methos' head, Duncan could not defeat
Kalas. Also, if Methos dies, he wants Duncan to win the prize.
Chuck
RosebudSal <roseb...@aol.com> wrote in article
<19970506022...@ladder01.news.aol.com>...
> In article <5kg7bl$1...@ns1.thpl.lib.fl.us>, sf4y...@scfn.thpl.lib.fl.us
> (dave mangels) writes:
>
> >
> >Reinhardt didn't take Richie's head for a good reason: there would be
no
> >quickenning from a nascient immortal. The quickenning is still dormant.
> >You would have to sit around and wait for him to come back to life as an
> >immortal.
>
> happened
> on the show yet, but I wonder what would happen.
> >I think that's a sort of unspoken rule: No beheading nascient
immortals.
> >That would be an unfair advantage, since not only do they not know about
> >immortals, but they don't sense them, either.
>
> can be sensed by full-blow-Immortals. Maybe that's why some good
> Immortals keep watch over some of the pre-Immies. I mean, even Kagan
> said to Mac that if he'd been the one to find him, maybe he'd have turned
> out okay.
The Kurgan followed an interesting strategy ( and it was a game strategy,
and had nothing to do with the rules. That is - kill off the competition,
often, and as early as possible. In doing so, increase your own chance of
making the finals.
Ramirez, in contrast, followed the strategy of creating allies, and in
doing so increase one's own chances of making the finals.
Two different strategies. Was either better than the other?
>
>
> Maria--
> Roseb...@aol.com
> http://members.aol.com/RosebudSal/index.html
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> "We live with the objective of being happy: our lives are
> all different and yet the same." -- Anne Frank
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
Chuck
LordPapaly <lordp...@aol.com> wrote in article
<19970506070...@ladder01.news.aol.com>...
My own opinion is that the Kurgan was afraid of nothing. But he would not
have fought on Holy Ground because there was always the chance that it
would mean his losing the prize.
That scene in the church was wonderful for a number of reason, one of which
is the way Kurgan pulled MacLeod's strings. And then used MacLeod's anger
against him not unlike the way a bad kid would taunt a good kid into acting
wrongly, and then in effect saying nya nya nya!
>
Jerri LaPoint
Chuck <chl...@ibm.net> wrote in article
<01bc5daf$a7f2d2e0$a778...@None.gateway.compuserve.com>...
> That scene in the church was wonderful for a number of reason, one of
which
> is the way Kurgan pulled MacLeod's strings. And then used MacLeod's anger
> against him not unlike the way a bad kid would taunt a good kid into
acting
> wrongly, and then in effect saying nya nya nya!
> >
notorious for saying "neener neener neener". Good kids acting naughty might
say nya nya nay.
Can't tell the players without a program.
Jerri
KastagirDM
I think it makes sense too, that a nascient immortal wouldn't give off a
quickenning. Why else would an evil immortal just ignore a nascient one.
If they gave regular quickennings, I would think them to be the ultimate
prey, just walk up behind them and ::wack::.
If it was that easy, you know all the bad immortals would do it.
aunt...@shentel.net
In article <5kpaoq$6b1$1...@pike.dnaco.net>,
jim...@dnaco.net (Jim P.) wrote:
>
> In some newsgroup <336f8a73...@news.southeast.net>
> beck...@pop.southeast.net (Matt Beckwith) talked about:
>
> > david-c...@uiowa.edu (Dave Miller) wrote:
> >
> [snip]
> > One thing that gets me is that immortals never work. They never have
> > jobs. Are they just people of leisure? Have they decided that
> > there's no reason to make a contribution in the world? Duncan has
> > from time to time had jobs (such as as a medic in WW II), but doesn't
> > seem to have one in the present.
>
> Think of this - in current times you can put away $25-50K in savings
> at age 18 and be worth 1-3 million by the time you are 65 years
> old by investing
>
> You are also carrying around a sword worth $20K minimum.
>
> In addition by putting away trinkets in your time and selling
> them a 100 years later will build you some bucks. What
> is a complete set of plate armor made in the 12-13 century
> in pristine condition worth today? $20-30K?
And HL has shown immortals that have jobs. Marcus Constantine is curator
of a museum. Keogh had his own furniture-making business (seemed to
specialize in rocking chairs). And there was the immortal
librarian/romance novelist that Michael Christian killed. I'm sure there
are others, but these three came to mind right away.
Mimo
-----------------------------------------
The first thing to realize about parallel
universes is that they are not parallel.
--Douglas Adams
Mostly Harmless
Dave Miller
kasta...@aol.com (KastagirDM) wrote:
Well, there's the possibility that nascient immortal quickenings just
aren't worth it. If I were an immortal who was an aggressive
head-hunter, I'd probably ignore nascient immortals too. 20 - 40
years doesn't produce much of a quickening.
If I was an old, powerful head hunter like the Kurgan or Kalas, I'd
probably target immortals between the ages of 100-200. At this point
they've taken a few heads and been around long enough to build up a
worthwhile quickening, but they likely haven't become strong enough to
pose a threat.
WarAngel
On Sun, 4 May 1997, Dave Miller wrote:
> boss...@ednet.co.uk (Jette Goldie) wrote:
> I'd be more likely to choose a phrase like "the most dangerous
> immortal alive."
About blocking.... from what I understand, Methos uses an "Ivanhoe" sword
(maybe I should start featuring this on my Highlander Shopper's Guide web
page...hmmm...) which is a single-handed (or possibly hand-and-a-half)
sword, made by a company called Gladius in Spain. These *are* available
via mail order, and there are some variations available. Metho's sword
might be the bronze one, but it's been a while since I checked.
Anyways, the construction and use of that sword versus a katana are
interesting. That sword is more a "hacking" sword, and a katana is more a
cutting sword (even though on TV it's used to "hack"!). The katana is far
lighter and thus with someone of Duncan's physique, size and speed, the
katana is a formidable weapon.
Methos is not as strong, and in the Four Horsemen, Methos was barely able
to keep up with the huge fellow with the broad axe. His sword is probably
more suited to the days where people wore more protection on their bodies.
A heavier blade like that had better chance of chopping through something.
Can a katana block an "Ivanhoe" sword? Well, here we have two different
martial arts techniques. You try to never parry edge to edge, or you will
demolish your fine sword. The katana's edge is very hard, but the rest of
the body is soft for impact absoption, but it will still get cut. As a
result - and watch Duncan's moves carefully - he raises the hilt and tilts
the sword downwards and to the side. This causes the opponent's blade to
slide downwards - away from the body - until the attack ends, and now
Duncan is outside of the line of attack, and his sword can be brought down
in a slicing motion. In a very rudimentary way, this is "blocking".
Hope this helps!
WarAngel
http://www.angelic.org/highlander/
Replace
>
> The Kurgan followed an interesting strategy ( and it was a game
strategy,
> and had nothing to do with the rules. That is - kill off the competition,
> often, and as early as possible. In doing so, increase your own chance of
> making the finals.
>
> Ramirez, in contrast, followed the strategy of creating allies, and in
> doing so increase one's own chances of making the finals.
>
> Two different strategies. Was either better than the other?
>
Who is alive to tell the story?
Taiko
APecs7224
> One thing that gets me is that immortals never work. They never have
>> jobs. Are they just people of leisure? Have they decided that
>> there's no reason to make a contribution in the world? Duncan has
>> from time to time had jobs (such as as a medic in WW II), but doesn't
>> seem to have one in the present.
Well, DM had a job until Tessa's dead - the antique dealership, remember?
Although we have never seen him to have anything to do in Paris.
And you are right, that thing always bothered me somewhat.
I understand that immortals can be rich. But they usually don't inherit
it, they had to work for it at some time. And young immortals are not
rich, see Richie.
But even if Methos and Amanda and DM worked hard for some time in their
lifes, I constantly wonder what do they do with their long days...
I just loved that antique store...
And I believe you don't just work for money, you work for the pleasure of
it, you work, becuse that makes you human. And immortals are supposed to
be humans, except for that little thing, are not they?
Agnes
Brian B. Riley
In article <19970518093...@ladder02.news.aol.com>,
apec...@aol.com (APecs7224) wrote:
>In article <5kpaoq$6b1$1...@pike.dnaco.net>, jim...@dnaco.net (Jim P.)
>writes:
>
>> One thing that gets me is that immortals never work. They never
have
>>> jobs. Are they just people of leisure? Have they decided that
>>> there's no reason to make a contribution in the world? Duncan
has
>>> from time to time had jobs (such as as a medic in WW II), but
doesn't
>>> seem to have one in the present.
>
>Well, DM had a job until Tessa's dead - the antique dealership,
remember?
Not so at all .... DM is seen as 'working' in many flashbacks, as a
body guard, as a soldier (many times) , as an ambulance driver, one
of them was a sculptor, another a pianist, even Byron was a rock
star, Kassim worked for centuries as guardian to one family. Methos
'worked' as a Watcher for ten years or more, Amanda 'worked' as a
thief, a circus performer. John Durgan, was a trapper and later as
Simon something he ;worked' managing his fortune. They all have
'occupations' - just maybe some of them aren't looked upon as work
by different fans.
Brian B. Riley --> http://www.together.com/~brianbr
PGP Key ID - 2047/17C2B699
"If this is the first day of the rest of my life, I am in DEEP
trouble!"
Maureen Goldman
>> One thing that gets me is that immortals never work. They never have
>>> jobs. Are they just people of leisure? Have they decided that
>>> there's no reason to make a contribution in the world? Duncan has
>>> from time to time had jobs (such as as a medic in WW II), but doesn't
>>> seem to have one in the present.
>
>Well, DM had a job until Tessa's dead - the antique dealership, remember?
We've seen lots of Immortals with jobs.
>Although we have never seen him to have anything to do in Paris.
>And you are right, that thing always bothered me somewhat.
>I understand that immortals can be rich. But they usually don't inherit
>it, they had to work for it at some time. And young immortals are not
>rich, see Richie.
Richie's financial situation has puzzled me, but not the older
Immortals. Offhand, I wouldn't say that work is the source of their
wealth for the more well-to-do, or at least not "work" in terms of a
9-5 job. Some have inherited from adoptive parents. Some have looted
and pillaged. Some held onto items that later proved valuable.
> And I believe you don't just work for money, you work for the pleasure of
>it, you work, becuse that makes you human. And immortals are supposed to
>be humans, except for that little thing, are not they?
>Agnes
You are either very young or very lucky. Most of us work to survive.
A whole lot of people feel lucky to have any paying work at all.
But that is very much off-topic.
MaggiRos
I thought Mac was employing Richie to 1) run the dojo after Charlie died
and 2) take care of his bookkeeping and keep track of his numerous
investments. But the last time we saw that, was quite a while ago. Too
late to worry about that now, of course :)
MaggiRos
All my men wear a sword
or they wear nothing at all
WarAngel
Why is Methos so weak? No exercise in 5,000 years!!! Look how fit The
Dunk is!
WarAngel