so...gilmore sluts?
efa...@gmail.com
little slut!
i really hate shows that emphasize the "bad boy" over the current bf.
not that dean in s2 is any great shakes, it's just so cliche, trite,
overused, etc., to always have the girl turn to the "bad boy." most of
the females i know...did not, in fact, turn to the bad boy.
why can't they ever find a funny boy, who isn't a "bad boy" but
just...interesting. this teenager angst sure is getting annoying.
like..tristan, now there was somebody you could hang a hat on. at least
he was interesting in his brooding, and offered more than scowls.
Rob Jensen
>i'm only on season 2, but it seems like rory turns out to be quite the
>little slut!
Total misread of the show even back then, IMO.
>i really hate shows that emphasize the "bad boy" over the current bf.
>not that dean in s2 is any great shakes, it's just so cliche, trite,
>overused, etc., to always have the girl turn to the "bad boy." most of
>the females i know...did not, in fact, turn to the bad boy.
You don't know a lot of different *types* of women then.
>why can't they ever find a funny boy, who isn't a "bad boy" but
>just...interesting. this teenager angst sure is getting annoying.
Because the point of that storyline is that even *Rory* wasn't sure
why she was attracted to Jess. The show was never advocating Rory and
Jess as a couple, the show was examining/exploring the nature of *not
knowing why you're doing something but doing it anyway.* Work
backwards from Rory's meltdown after missing Lorelai's graduation from
college, in which she beats herSELF up for missing it to go after Jess
to NYC, as that's the key scene in understanding Rory's arc that
season. Rory's story isn't the story of The Rory and Jess Romance,
it's about Rory being in conflict with *herself.*
>like..tristan, now there was somebody you could hang a hat on. at least
>he was interesting in his brooding, and offered more than scowls.
Tristan was a smarmy idiot. Obviously, though, if Chad Michael Murry
had stayed on the show, his storyline would have been what became
Logan's storyline, IMO.
-- Rob
--
LORELAI: In the movie, only boy hobbits travel to Mount
Doom, but that's only because the girls went to do something
even more dangerous.
GIRL: What?
LORELAI: Have you ever heard of a Brazilian Bikini Wax?
efa...@gmail.com
i did like tristan a lot though. he wasn't an idiot at all. he was a
spoiled kid who was used to getting his way, but was definately mature
enough to be nice/gentleman to everybody he knew.
for example, his take on paris. even though she was a ice queen back in
s1, he still gave her the time of day. i always thought that he was
just being nice to her as part of some grander joke, but turns out he's
just nice. and interesting.
Larry W. Virden
jerk! I'm not a Dean fan any longer - while at first I really liked
him, after season 2 things go down hill for him and now he's just
worthless. Looking back, Jess is about the only one that's turned out
to have survived and matured. Rory's choices in men just continues the
downward spiral. There has only been one guy I can remember who wasn't
in the "bad boy" genre, and they really didn't date (he just wanted
to)...
Perhaps Logan and Tristan will run into each other.
Sharpe Fan
"Larry W. Virden" <lvi...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1146742314.9...@y43g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
I assume you one non-bad boy other than season 1 and 2 Dean. He was hardly
a bad boy.
Sharpe Fan
Larry W. Virden
After that, his character was turned into a bad boy.
About the only non-bad boy after that was Marty, who, despite the first
appearance as drunken and naked at a dorm party, after that seemed to
be a relatively decent sort.
Tobias Fünke
I forgot about that guy. He kind of just disappeared.
Stacia
Still an understudy for the Blue Man Group?
>> About the only non-bad boy after that was Marty, who, despite the
>> first appearance as drunken and naked at a dorm party, after that
>> seemed to be a relatively decent sort.
>I forgot about that guy. He kind of just disappeared.
Marty got the shaft, big time, IMO. Rory was friends with Marty the
whole first year at Yale, and the first day back for year two she met up
with him just as Logan and Colin and all trashed Marty for being poor.
She argued with Logan about it later and of course ended up deciding to
be a snooty rich girl brat. If I recall she totally led Marty on a few
episodes later -- Rory was supposedly oblivious to him liking her, but
please, how clueless can you be? -- and eventually told Marty she liked
Logan.
Marty hasn't been seen since.
Rory's attitude about people really changed over the course of the
show. She didn't like the uberrich kids making fun of Marty and calling
him a servant who is being paid to take abuse, but after she started
hanging with Logan and her grandparents she had NO problem treating
people like servants. When Logan lent her his driver, she had the
chauffer drive her and her friends all over SH for groceries, and even
had the guy carry furniture upstairs for her mom. She told Logan later
that she fed the driver (a cold ham sandwich), as though she was telling
him she fed his goldfish. So painful.
Stacia
Sharpe Fan
"Stacia" <sta...@xmission.com> wrote in message
news:e3fjno$kac$2...@news.xmission.com...
She really dumped Marty for Dean. Marty asked Rory if she had a boyfriend
and she said she wasn't sure and then we see her going to talk to Dean.
(This is after she came back from the summer in Europe with Emily.)
After she broke up with Dean finally, Marty tried again but by then she
liked Logan.
Sharpe Fan
efa...@gmail.com
that kinda sucks, i love her now, perfect gf! except the infidelity.
Larry W. Virden
When you wrote this, it made me think of the first season and her
attitude towards Paris, Tritan and the other rich kids, who frequently
were giving her a hard time. I really wonder if Jess could stomach
being around Rory when she's in her "poor little rich kid" mode. I
think she spent way too much time with Grandma and Grandpa...
Sharpe Fan
"Stacia" <sta...@xmission.com> wrote in message
news:e3fjno$kac$2...@news.xmission.com...
> "Tobias Fünke" <tobias...@blueman.group> writes:
>
> Rory's attitude about people really changed over the course of the
> show. She didn't like the uberrich kids making fun of Marty and calling
> him a servant who is being paid to take abuse, but after she started
> hanging with Logan and her grandparents she had NO problem treating
> people like servants. When Logan lent her his driver, she had the
> chauffer drive her and her friends all over SH for groceries, and even
> had the guy carry furniture upstairs for her mom. She told Logan later
> that she fed the driver (a cold ham sandwich), as though she was telling
> him she fed his goldfish. So painful.
>
> Stacia
>
I don't think having a driver drive her places is horrible - that is his
job.
As far as carrying things (I think it was the TV), that may or may not be
part of his job description, but I am guessing there are no scope rules.
Sharpe Fan
Stacia
>She really dumped Marty for Dean. Marty asked Rory if she had a boyfriend
>and she said she wasn't sure and then we see her going to talk to Dean.
>(This is after she came back from the summer in Europe with Emily.)
That's right, I forgot that was Marty.
Stacia
Stacia
>"Stacia" <sta...@xmission.com> wrote:
>> people like servants. When Logan lent her his driver, she had the
>> chauffer drive her and her friends all over SH for groceries, and even
>> had the guy carry furniture upstairs for her mom. She told Logan later
>> that she fed the driver (a cold ham sandwich), as though she was telling
>> him she fed his goldfish. So painful.
>I don't think having a driver drive her places is horrible - that is his
>job.
>As far as carrying things (I think it was the TV), that may or may not be
>part of his job description, but I am guessing there are no scope rules.
The driver was just to get her to SH because her car was in the shop.
Her mom's car was available, so why did she need to keep the driver with
her all day? It was rude to Logan if nothing else, and it shows she had
no trouble having a driver cater to her needs when just a few episodes
earlier she had been upset with Logan treating Marty like a "servant".
She used the driver to pick up friends on the way to the store, and
had him carry a television upstairs. Again, her need for a driver is
questionable, not to mention the use of the driver for manual labor, and
her off-handed comment about feeding the driver. It's all telling.
Stacia
Rob Jensen
wrote:
>"Sharpe Fan" <sharpeseagl...@yahooNoSpamm.com> writes:
>>"Stacia" <sta...@xmission.com> wrote:
>
>>> people like servants. When Logan lent her his driver, she had the
>>> chauffer drive her and her friends all over SH for groceries, and even
>>> had the guy carry furniture upstairs for her mom. She told Logan later
>>> that she fed the driver (a cold ham sandwich), as though she was telling
>>> him she fed his goldfish. So painful.
>
>>I don't think having a driver drive her places is horrible - that is his
>>job.
>
>>As far as carrying things (I think it was the TV), that may or may not be
>>part of his job description, but I am guessing there are no scope rules.
>
> The driver was just to get her to SH because her car was in the shop.
>Her mom's car was available, so why did she need to keep the driver with
>her all day?
Her mother was *having a nervous breakdown* and Logan directed the
chauffeur to stay with Rory for as long as Rory needed him. And mind
you, Rory was very likely too frazzled by Lorelai's having a nervous
breakdown to trust her own self behind the wheel of the jeep. Better
to have the chauffeur, who had no personal investment in the situation
and who was therefore calm, driving her around so that she could
concentrate on simply doing the errands she needed to do to take care
of Lorelai without being distracted by, well, operating a motor
vehicle herself.
It was rude to Logan if nothing else, and it shows she had
>no trouble having a driver cater to her needs when just a few episodes
>earlier she had been upset with Logan treating Marty like a "servant".
> She used the driver to pick up friends on the way to the store, and
>had him carry a television upstairs. Again, her need for a driver is
>questionable, not to mention the use of the driver for manual labor, and
>her off-handed comment about feeding the driver. It's all telling.
Dude, Rory's mother *was having a fricking nervous breakdown at the
time.* It's telling that you can't recognize that even the chauffeur
would find it reasonable under that circumstance to be 1) lent out --
after all, he's being paid regardless of where he's sent to -- and 2)
with Rory for the entire day -- after all, it was an emergency
concerning *her mother being in the middle of a nervous breakdown.*
The difference between Rory's attitude in using a private, full-time
chauffeur for a duty that is well-within his job description and in
Logan's treating Marty like shit are night and day. It's the
difference between how one treats an employee charged to perform a
service *for you* (Rory looking after the chauffeur by making sure
that he's been well-fed, which, believe it or else, she *didn't* have
to do) and how one treats a slave (how Logan treated Marty.)
Sorry, but there's no hypocrisy there in Rory's attitude, not in the
slightest, IMO.
Sharpe Fan
In my (possibly imperfect) memory, the driver seemed to be enjoying the
outing. Rory was having some fun (as an antidote to the stress of her
mother's behavior) and the driver seemed to be part of it.
Another scene in a different episode may show Rory's attitude more clearly.
This took place shortly after she had moved into the pool house. She is
bored and bumps into one of the maids (or the maid - I am not sure how many
Emily has). Rory starts chatting with her and ends up helping her, clean
the silver I think, but I could be wrong on that part. Emily is of course
horrified and the maid disappears by the next day. Rory is comfortable with
the maid and views the maid as a person to interact with in a friendly
manner; Emily would die first.
Yes, Rory will use a driver when she has a need to and I would not be
surprised if she later on had some sort of cleaning service for her house or
apartment. (It may be a maid or an outside professional cleaning service,
depending on many factors.) The important thing is not if she has some
staff working for her (after all they are not serfs who came with the
property but people who want or need the job), but how she treats them. I
couldn't imagine she would ever treat people working for her as Emily treats
people.
Rory is much more comfortable being around money than Lorelai is. I think
this is because Lorelai associates money with Emily's attitudes and actions
towards her and the staff. Rory does not make that association.
Sharpe Fan
Stacia
>Her mother was *having a nervous breakdown* and Logan directed the
>chauffeur to stay with Rory for as long as Rory needed him.
Logan didn't know what was wrong with Lorelai, because Rory didn't
tell him, she just said she had to get home. He told Rory to take the
driver but Logan never spoke to the chauffer.
>And mind
>you, Rory was very likely too frazzled by Lorelai's having a nervous
>breakdown to trust her own self behind the wheel of the jeep.
Rory drove the Jeep herself on the way to her Shakespeare test when
she first started Chilton. Second, Rory was calm and collected and
taking over the situation to help her mom. It's moronic to think that
she would be "too frazzled" to drive the Jeep. Or walk, or get friends
in SH to help, or whatever. There is absolutely NOTHING in the show
that supports your theory. If you are speculating, fine, but say so.
>Rory's mother *was having a fricking nervous breakdown at the
>time.* It's telling that you can't recognize that even the chauffeur
>would find it reasonable
Give me one single example from the show -- script quotes,
paraphrases, character's actions, ANYTHING -- that proves that Rory was
too distraught to drive. Just one tangible example, not your
speculation.
The writers had her in the limo and use the limo driver to pick up
friends, wait around for hours, and haul TVs upstairs for a reason. It
was deliberate, not just incidental. It's not the only time they
deliberately show this kind of thing.
Compare Rory's attitude to the movers who helped her when she first
went to Yale, versus the second year. In case you think I'm making it
up, here's a quote from TWoP about her moving back to Yale for the 2nd
year:
"Rory learned something from her grandmother, and is now barking at some
movers to be careful with her couch as they carry it to her dorm room.
Rory ditches the movers to say hello to Marty. The movers are standing
there like, "We get paid by the hour, lady." Marty and Rory hug. They're
both living in that dorm. The movers sit down on the couch, exhausted
and tired of being Rory's servants. Rory half-heartedly apologizes and
says she should let them in."
The show deliberately has Rory going from the "no one is a servant"
attitude (i.e. Lor's views about rich people) and drifting towards her
grandparents' and/or rich people's treatment of the help (i.e. Emily's
firing the maids, Logan and his friends making fun of Marty, etc.)
As the show progresses, she changes. It's part of the entire show's
storyline and it is the focus of several plotlines, including the Yale
meatmarket party, what the judge says to her after she went joyriding in
the yacht, how she treated the movers, how she treated the limo driver,
how she treated Marty at the expensive Chinese place, etc. It's part of
the tension between Lorelai and Rory. How can you possibly deny this?
Stacia
Stacia
>In my (possibly imperfect) memory, the driver seemed to be enjoying the
>outing. Rory was having some fun (as an antidote to the stress of her
>mother's behavior) and the driver seemed to be part of it.
He was smiling and polite, from what I remember, and I'm not saying
Rory treated him like Emily would have. She was much nicer than I would
expect Emily or Mitchum, for example. I wasn't trying to say she was
extremely rude and selfish, but there's a distinct difference between
her previous attitude when she was younger and the attitude she gets as
the show goes on.
>Emily has). Rory starts chatting with her and ends up helping her, clean
>the silver I think, but I could be wrong on that part. Emily is of course
>horrified and the maid disappears by the next day. Rory is comfortable with
>the maid and views the maid as a person to interact with in a friendly
>manner; Emily would die first.
I remember this. Again, I didn't say Rory would be like Emily,
referring to people as "them" and going through staff like socks. And
she's not always rude. She's changing, evolving as the show goes on,
sometimes acting like her mother would, sometimes acting more like her
grandmother.
>Rory is much more comfortable being around money than Lorelai is. I think
>this is because Lorelai associates money with Emily's attitudes and actions
>towards her and the staff. Rory does not make that association.
Possibly. I suspect the show is trying to show Rory as a moderate
middle between the two opposites of Lor and Emily.
But the main point is that the writers deliberately have Rory acting a
certain way towards the help, towards Marty, towards Dean, etc. There
are times she's insensitive, whether she's conscious of it or not, and
it's part of her evolution as a character. It's silly to claim that the
way she treated the chauffer was just incidental background with no
relevance at all.
Stacia
David E. Milligan
> Rob Jensen <Shut...@aol.com> writes:
>
>>Her mother was *having a nervous breakdown* and Logan directed the
>>chauffeur to stay with Rory for as long as Rory needed him.
>
> Logan didn't know what was wrong with Lorelai, because Rory didn't
> tell him, she just said she had to get home. He told Rory to take the
> driver but Logan never spoke to the chauffer.
>
>>And mind
>>you, Rory was very likely too frazzled by Lorelai's having a nervous
>>breakdown to trust her own self behind the wheel of the jeep.
>
> Rory drove the Jeep herself on the way to her Shakespeare test when
> she first started Chilton. Second, Rory was calm and collected and
> taking over the situation to help her mom. It's moronic to think that
> she would be "too frazzled" to drive the Jeep. Or walk, or get friends
> in SH to help, or whatever. There is absolutely NOTHING in the show
> that supports your theory. If you are speculating, fine, but say so.
>
>>Rory's mother *was having a fricking nervous breakdown at the
>>time.* It's telling that you can't recognize that even the chauffeur
>>would find it reasonable
>
> Give me one single example from the show -- script quotes,
> paraphrases, character's actions, ANYTHING -- that proves that Rory was
> too distraught to drive. Just one tangible example, not your
> speculation.
Her car was at the dealer's being serviced. Don't you remember? Both
Logan and Lorelai made a big deal about how the dealers rip you off.
Sharpe Fan
>
>>And mind
>>you, Rory was very likely too frazzled by Lorelai's having a nervous
>>breakdown to trust her own self behind the wheel of the jeep.
>
> Rory drove the Jeep herself on the way to her Shakespeare test when
> she first started Chilton.
Resulting in the infamous deer incident. :-)
And I don't share Rob's belief that Rory was incapable of driving.
[snipped]
>
> Stacia
>
Sharpe Fan
Rob Jensen
wrote:
>It's silly to claim that the
>way she treated the chauffer was just incidental background with no
>relevance at all.
No, it's not. The chauffeur was an incidental background character
who hasn't been seen since and whose totally nonexistent plight that
Rory didn't have to rail against was totally IRRELEVANT because 1) he
was never treated anywhere near as badly by Logan as Logan treated
Marty and 2) the treatment of the chauffeur *wasn't the point of the
goddamn story,* Stacia.
At *best,* you've got a *vague* hint of *Logan's* hypocrisy on how
*he* treats diferent types of employees, possibly based on how much or
how little he pays them, whether they're hired for a specific gig, as
Marty was, or are salaried staff and something akin to part of the
family, as the chauffeur was. But this is totally a
forest-for-the-trees issue, stacia. Move on, there's no plot point
regarding Rory's attitude toward chauffeurs and other paid employees
other than enjoying and taking full advantage of having one assigned
to her when she needed one and treating him kindly, as she treats
*everyone* kindly on an informal acquaintance level (at least until,
like Emily or Mitchum, they cross her, which is her perogative).
Rob Jensen
I never said that I thought that Rory was incapable of driving -- I
said that I thought that she was too frazzled to trust herself behind
the wheel -- *substantially* more wiggle room there than you think
there is. You're frazzled and you attention is divided between your
heartbroken, semi-catatonic mother's state of mind and keeping your
eye on the road? Y'know, sure, you can *do* it, keep your eye on the
road, but when you've got this chauffeur assigned to you for the day,
who's an employee who's, frankly treated well enough by the
Huntzberger family that he's a genial sort,who's getting paid for the
day whether she waves him off or not, why should Rory *not* use him
for what he's paid for?
C'mon, Stacia is suggesting that Rory is Hermoine Granger and the
chauffeur was a house elf/slave even less aware of his own plight than
Dobby was. Sorry, but there's a *substantial* difference between a
person enjoying full use of a *salaried employee* and a house slave
and if stacia can't see the difference, then there's simply no
convincing her -- she's only going to see what's not there.
Anne
"David E. Milligan" <davi...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:g__6g.37032$MM6....@bignews3.bellsouth.net...
[snip]
I think she was referring to Rory driving Lorelai's car once she got home.
Meaning, Rory could have accepted the quick ride home from the driver
without keeping the guy all day driving her around the small town, and
hauling stuff (like the TV). Only when Luke beeped at the limo, *and* when
Rory realized it was him beeping, did she come back to earth a tiny bit and
say something like "I'm not usually in a limo". Before that she was rather
haughty (along the lines of "are THEY beeping at US ?").
Michael Ikeda
news:aeup52digqmnvhm73...@4ax.com:
> On Sat, 6 May 2006 06:21:30 +0000 (UTC), sta...@xmission.com
> (Stacia) wrote:
>
>>It's silly to claim that the
>>way she treated the chauffer was just incidental background with
>>no relevance at all.
>
> No, it's not. The chauffeur was an incidental background
> character who hasn't been seen since and whose totally
> nonexistent plight that Rory didn't have to rail against was
> totally IRRELEVANT because 1) he was never treated anywhere near
> as badly by Logan as Logan treated Marty and 2) the treatment of
> the chauffeur *wasn't the point of the goddamn story,* Stacia.
>
Precisely. The story is primarily about Lorelai and Rory's
relationship. We see Rory dropping everything to rush home to help
Lorelai through the crisis. And her single-minded focus on Lorelai
once she gets there. And then we see Lorelai not anywhere near fine,
but pretending just well enough to persuade Rory it's all right to go
back to Yale.
There's also the secondary thread of the developing relationship
between Logan and Rory. Logan's offer of the car and driver is
important here, but what happens once they get to Star's Hollow is
mere background to the Rory/Lorelai plot thread.
(One other note is that we don't know Logan's precise instructions to
Frank. I tend to suspect that it included something along the lines
of "help her out any way you can".)
--
Michael Ikeda mmi...@erols.com
"Telling a statistician not to use sampling is like telling an
astronomer they can't say there is a moon and stars"
Lynne Billard, past president American Statistical Association
Gordon Mulcaster
Rob Jensen <Shut...@aol.com> wrote:
> Her mother was *having a nervous breakdown* and Logan directed the
> chauffeur to stay with Rory for as long as Rory needed him.
She wasn't having a nervous breakdown, she was wallowing in self pity.
> And mind you, Rory was very likely too frazzled by Lorelai's having a
> nervous breakdown to trust her own self behind the wheel of the jeep.
As much of a stretch as it is to call Lorelai wallowing in bed a
"nervous breakdown" it pales in comparison to calling Rory too
"frazzeled" to drive! She was shown to be in total control and in charge
of her senses, taking care of her Mom, getting her snacks and such and
even having the chauffer do something that is *totally* outside of his
job discription -- carry the TV upstairs.
> Dude, Rory's mother *was having a fricking nervous breakdown at the
> time.* It's telling that you can't recognize that even the chauffeur
> would find it reasonable under that circumstance to be 1) lent out
Lent out? Logan has an account with a limo service, the driver wasn't
lent out. He's not Logan's toy.
> Sorry, but there's no hypocrisy there in Rory's attitude, not in the
> slightest, IMO.
That I agree with but a gradual change in her attitude has been
developing.
Gordon Mulcaster
sta...@xmission.com (Stacia) wrote:
> He told Rory to take the driver but Logan never spoke to the
> chauffer.
He had to call someone at the limo service and have them send the Limo
to the school to pick up Rory.
Gordon Mulcaster
"David E. Milligan" <davi...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> "Stacia" <sta...@xmission.com> wrote in message
> news:e3heps$uj7$1...@news.xmission.com...
>
> > Give me one single example from the show -- script quotes,
> > paraphrases, character's actions, ANYTHING -- that proves that Rory
> > was too distraught to drive. Just one tangible example, not your
> > speculation.
>
> Her car was at the dealer's being serviced. Don't you remember? Both
> Logan and Lorelai made a big deal about how the dealers rip you off.
And that shows how Rory was too distraught to drive, how?
Gordon Mulcaster
"Sharpe Fan" <sharpeseagl...@yahooNoSpamm.com> wrote:
> In my (possibly imperfect) memory, the driver seemed to be enjoying
> the outing. Rory was having some fun (as an antidote to the stress
> of her mother's behavior) and the driver seemed to be part of it.
Rory was, of course, very friendly with the chauffeur and I agree that
he appeared to be enjoying himslef. Of course part of his job is to be
friendly, polite and in a good mood. The point being made (which I agree
with) is the limo incidence shows that Rory is fitting in with the
"people of entitlement" just as well as she fits in with the road crew.
Season one Rory would not have been comfortable being chauffeured around
town, season six (or what ever it was) Rory is just fine taking full
advantage of the "perks" of having a rich boyfriend.
> She is bored and bumps into one of the maids (or the maid - I am not
> sure how many Emily has).
Exactly, Rory started talking to her because she (Rory) was bored out of
her skull. Give Rory a few more years in "Hunztburger World" and she
would never consider talking to a maid as an equal. She may even
consider the maid handing her a note rather than speaking to be "normal".
Gordon Mulcaster
Rob Jensen <Shut...@aol.com> wrote:
> On Sat, 6 May 2006 06:21:30 +0000 (UTC), sta...@xmission.com (Stacia)
> wrote:
>
> > It's silly to claim that the way she treated the chauffer was just
> > incidental background with no relevance at all.
>
> No, it's not. The chauffeur was an incidental background character
> who hasn't been seen since and whose totally nonexistent plight that
> Rory didn't have to rail against was totally IRRELEVANT because 1) he
> was never treated anywhere near as badly by Logan as Logan treated
> Marty and 2) the treatment of the chauffeur *wasn't the point of the
> goddamn story,* Stacia.
There was a definate point to having the chauffeur on the show. As
you're well aware everything and everyone in the show is there on
purpose, there was a reason the producers had Rory use the Limo. If the
chauffeur was totally irrelevant then they would not have hired the
actor who played him, or rented the Limo.
The reason the limo was there (IMO) was to show how comfortable Rory is
becoming living in Logan's world.
Stacia
>> she first started Chilton.
>Resulting in the infamous deer incident. :-)
The imprints of the deer's horns were hysterical.
>And I don't share Rob's belief that Rory was incapable of driving.
She was capable of driving. The writers had her chauffered around for
a reason, is all I'm saying.
Stacia
Stacia
> He was calling the limo guy as Rory was leaving his room.
I don't remember that. Maybe it got edited out of re-runs? If so, I
apologize for not realizing it. However, did we see what Logan said
when he was on the phone to the limo guy? Do you remember what it was?
> Her car was at the dealer's being serviced. Don't you remember?
Yes. You haven't read this thread closely enough. I know the car was
in the shop, David.
We have *already established* Rory's car was in the shop, so she
needed the limo to get to SH. After she was in SH, she didn't need the
limo per se. She cold have used her mom's jeep, or walked, or had SH
friends help (Sookie, maybe, who was already at the house?). The
writers had her use the limo and limo driver the rest of the day for a
reason.
Stacia
Stacia
>"David E. Milligan" <davi...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
>news:g__6g.37032$MM6....@bignews3.bellsouth.net...
>| Her car was at the dealer's being serviced. Don't you remember? Both
>| Logan and Lorelai made a big deal about how the dealers rip you off.
>[snip]
>I think she was referring to Rory driving Lorelai's car once she got home.
Yes, I was, thank you.
>Meaning, Rory could have accepted the quick ride home from the driver
>without keeping the guy all day driving her around the small town, and
>hauling stuff (like the TV). Only when Luke beeped at the limo, *and* when
>Rory realized it was him beeping, did she come back to earth a tiny bit and
>say something like "I'm not usually in a limo". Before that she was rather
>haughty (along the lines of "are THEY beeping at US ?").
I'd forgotten about that. That *was* kind of funny, even if she was
being a little snot right then. And the limo was blocking the road. SH
roads aren't wide enough for limos.
Stacia
Stacia
>Rob Jensen <Shut...@aol.com> wrote:
>>sta...@xmission.com (Stacia) wrote:
>>
>>>It's silly to claim that the
>>>way she treated the chauffer was just incidental background with
>>>no relevance at all.
>>
>> No, it's not. The chauffeur was an incidental background
>> character who hasn't been seen since and whose totally
>> nonexistent plight
I never said the chauffer was an important character. You're
misrepresenting what I said, either deliberately or because you know you
can't argue that the issue of Lorelai, Rory, and Emily's attitudes
towards wealth, servants, etc. is a continuing plot arc on the show.
>> totally IRRELEVANT because 1) he was never treated anywhere near
>> as badly by Logan as Logan treated Marty and
I never said Rory was treating employees like Logan, Mitchum, or Emily
does. In fact, I explicitly said in my response to Sharpe Fan that Rory
never acted anywhere near as snooty as Emily did.
>>2) the treatment of
>> the chauffeur *wasn't the point of the goddamn story,* Stacia.
Of course it's not the point of the story. I NEVER SAID IT WAS. The
point is how Rory treats employees, servants, the poor, etc. Are you
saying that how Rory's character acts isn't the point? That's
ridiculous.
And I notice you're one who always calls people names and starts
cussing when you're disagreed with. Charming.
>Precisely. The story is primarily about Lorelai and Rory's
>relationship.
The relationship is affected by Lorelai's view of rich people and
Rory's evolving opinions about the same thing. Even in season one,
Lorelai expects Rory to think her grandfather's club is a snooty,
exclusive place that she won't enjoy. But Rory goes golfing with her
grandfather and ends up enjoying it.
The entire show examines this part of their relationship.
>between Logan and Rory. Logan's offer of the car and driver is
>important here, but what happens once they get to Star's Hollow is
>mere background to the Rory/Lorelai plot thread.
In a show that has 44 minutes to get their message out, and which has
so many characters, not to mention many symmetrical plotlines referenced
seasons after they originally happened, I can't imagine that something
as big as Rory's attitude towards the limo and the driver was nothing
more than background.
It was deliberate. It's kind of offensive to the writers to say it
was all fluff with no substance.
Stacia
Sharpe Fan
"Gordon Mulcaster" <usen...@telus.net> wrote in message
news:usenetter-97A87...@news.telus.net...
I mentioned she was bored as an explanation for why Rory helped polish the
silver, not for talking to the maid.
If Rory had just walked into the kitchen for a snack and she were not bored
she would talk to the maid. She is a friendly person and does not think she
is above talking to maids.
But polishing silver seems another matter entirely and they would need some
reason for her to do that (the maid's reason was she was being paid to). I
have never polished silver, but I did (once) polish my brass door knocker
and it is not something I would do for fun (or even to end boredom).
Rory is certainly comfortable with having maids or chauffeurs around,
although she has rarely used one. (The maid activity in the pool house was
largely Emily's doing. Rory often wanted them out of there.) However, we
have seen nothing that would indicate she is on some slippery slope to
Emilydom.
Sharpe Fan
Stacia
>> He told Rory to take the driver but Logan never spoke to the
>> chauffer.
>He had to call someone at the limo service and have them send the Limo
>to the school to pick up Rory.
Like I said, I didn't see Logan use the phone after Rory left,
possibly because I saw a rerun on ABC Family. But doesn't Logan tell
her the limo is right outside? Why else would she leave immediately, if
the limo has to drive all the way to Yale? It would make sense for her
to stay inside until the limo arrived, especially since it was cool
enough for jackets/coats.
Stacia
Rob Jensen
The point of having the limo there beyond the simple function of
having it there because Rory's own car was in the shop, at best, was
to show Logan making Rory comfortable with his being rich and that she
was entitled to use the gift of borrowing the chauffeur when the
opportunity is offered because, after all, he's trying to help.
That's totally a totally different point than Stacia was alleging,
which was an alleged negative change in Rory's attitude toward
employees. IMO, Stacia's wrong because there *was* no change in
Rory's attitude toward service employees from how she'd treated them
before or how she's treated them *since.* Rory's attitude and
treatment of service-sector employees remains the same: she treats
them with dignity and consideration. And thus, is entirely a
*non-issue.*
And almost all of that was pretty much communicated in the first scene
that the chauffeur was in in the episode. After that, he went back to
being third-spear-carrier-on-the-right (ie: a totally superfluous,
glorified extra.)
If anything, Rory's making sure the chauffeur had had lunch, etc., was
there to show that Rory's attitude/behavior toward service employees
*had not changed one iota* from her previous behavior of general
consideration and congeniality toward everyone, regardless of
status/class. But again, that was more a character bit that
reinforces Rory's general character for newcomers more than it is
anything meant to comment directly on the main story at hand, which
was Rory dealing with her mother having a nervous breakdown and both
taking and giving help graciously at the same time.
Stacia
>That's totally a totally different point than Stacia was alleging,
>which was an alleged negative change in Rory's attitude toward
>employees. IMO, Stacia's wrong because there *was* no change in
>Rory's attitude toward service employees from how she'd treated them
>before or how she's treated them *since.* Rory's attitude and
>treatment of service-sector employees remains the same:
So there's no difference in how Rory treats the movers when she first
comes to Yale versus the second year at Yale? Please explain.
Also, please find one place where I said Rory treated servants all
negatively now. Thanks.
Stacia
Anne
If they weren't trying to make a small point, the writers could just have
had Logan let Rory borrow his own car, or call her a cab. But Logan is a
guy with a car service (like Mr. Big), and Rory quickly grows accustomed to
and enjoys the car service and the driver. She doesn't abuse the service
(although, she might have been pushing the boundaries a tad). But, Rory
(unlike Lorelai) can enjoy this trappings of wealth: she can enjoy the club,
and the DAR (to the point of being friendly with them even after she is back
at school), and the Life and Death Brigade outings, and the expensive gifts,
and Logan's fancy house(s).
It's just another data point noting Rory moving towards the middle ground
between Emily-land and Lorelai-ville.
Stacia
>If they weren't trying to make a small point, the writers could just have
>had Logan let Rory borrow his own car, or call her a cab.
Or not have her car in the shop at all. That's exactly right.
>But Logan is a
>guy with a car service (like Mr. Big), and Rory quickly grows accustomed to
>and enjoys the car service and the driver. She doesn't abuse the service
>(although, she might have been pushing the boundaries a tad).
I guess I didn't think any of it was abuse except having the driver
bring the television (and possibly other heavy stuff) upstairs. The ham
sammich kind of bothered me, too. Rory was definitely enjoying it and
feeling somewhat entitled to it, which is different than what Lorelai
would have done. She doesn't think the rich are entitled to anything.
And while Emily would have enjoyed it she would have also abused it and
the driver because she thinks rich equals better. So Rory's different
than both of them, and I think that's an important part of the show, and
the limo situation illustrated that.
>It's just another data point noting Rory moving towards the middle ground
>between Emily-land and Lorelai-ville.
Thank you. I was starting to think no one else saw that.
Stacia
Michael Ikeda
news:e3jhsa$9ir$5...@news.xmission.com:
From the transcript.
LOGAN: Take it. I'll give Frank a call, tell him to meet you out
front. He'll take good care of you. It's a done deal.
RORY: Okay. Thanks.
LOGAN: Go!
[He dials a number. Rory leaves.]
Vu Dang Tran
Certainly there was a difference in how Rory treated the movers when she
first came to Yale vs. the second year, since it was Lorelai and Luke who
helped move her stuff to the dorm the first time. I would hope she treated
her mother and Luke differently than some movers she hired :)
--
Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/
Rob Jensen
ITA, but I think you're selling Rory's boredom short on why she'd go
and help the maid polish silver -- IMO, it would be because, yes,
she's *that* bored and since she would have nothing better to do and
there *might* be a situation in the future where she'd likely need to
know how silver is polished, she'd might as well either learn how to
do it (if she didn't already know) or brush up on her silver-polishing
skills (if she already had them).
Rob Jensen
Dude, six years of witnessing Emily treating maids (and Rory herself)
like shit, the last six months of that time *in depth,* there's not
one iota of a chance that Rory's ever going to treat
maids/butlers/chauffeurs as anything less than her equals. There's
certainly *always* going to be a certain amount of tension/worry there
that maybe she'll be in danger of letting her guard down about that,
but Rory's default setting, her core self, is to treat everyone as
equal and equally deserving of consideration -- in explicit, direct
contrast to Emily, who long ago lost sight of the concept of
consideration.
Stacia
>On Sun, 07 May 2006 04:33:24 +0300, Stacia <sta...@xmission.com> wrote:
>> So there's no difference in how Rory treats the movers when she first
>> comes to Yale versus the second year at Yale? Please explain.
>Certainly there was a difference in how Rory treated the movers when she
>first came to Yale vs. the second year, since it was Lorelai and Luke who
>helped move her stuff to the dorm the first time. I would hope she treated
>her mother and Luke differently than some movers she hired :)
Going by memory sucks. I thought I was remembering the people who
moved furniture for her at Yale, and the wording in a summary at TWoP
made me think I had the right episode, but guess not. Am I thinking of
some people who helped at the new Inn, maybe? I tried finding some
detailed ep guides besides TWoP (since my memory + TWoP has been wrong
twice now) but no luck yet. Feh.
I'll remember when it gets shown on reruns in a few weeks, and by then
we'll be arguing about something else anyway.
Stacia
Sharpe Fan
Here are transcripts:
http://www.geocities.com/daviderl31/GGTranscripts/
Sharpe Fan
Stacia
>> some people who helped at the new Inn, maybe? I tried finding some
>> detailed ep guides besides TWoP (since my memory + TWoP has been wrong
>> twice now) but no luck yet. Feh.
>Here are transcripts:
>http://www.geocities.com/daviderl31/GGTranscripts/
You are a saint. Thanks for the link!
Stacia
Gordon Mulcaster
Rob Jensen <Shut...@aol.com> wrote:
> That's totally a totally different point than Stacia was alleging,
> which was an alleged negative change in Rory's attitude toward
> employees.
I think Stacia is quite a bit over the edge in her opinion of how much
Rory's attitude has changed, but she is right-on that there is a change.
As I said in another post the Limo was there to show how Rory is
becoming more and more comforable operating in the world of the
entitled. The world were hiring a Limo for the day to drive you 30
minutes home then hang around all day to drive you (and your friends)
around a small town is reasonable (a taxi would have cost way less and
been just as functional). The world where you have the chauffeur move
furniture around in your Mother's house just because you can.
> That's totally a totally different point than Stacia was alleging,
> which was an alleged negative change in Rory's attitude toward
> employees.
Dude! Rory had to go out to the Limo and ask/tell Frank to come into the
house and move the TV upstairs. That's not treating him with dignity and
consideration, that's abusing his good nature -- rearranging furniture
is not part of his job description.
Also note the attitude she copped when someone had the audacity to honk
at her precious little self while she was in the Limo. The more Rory
lives in "Emily-World" the more she becomes like Emily. It's only minor
and subtle changes so far, but the changes are there and are noticeable
if you're not blinded by hero worship.
Rob Jensen
wrote:
>"Vu Dang Tran" <vd...@welho.com> writes:
>
>>On Sun, 07 May 2006 04:33:24 +0300, Stacia <sta...@xmission.com> wrote:
>
>>> So there's no difference in how Rory treats the movers when she first
>>> comes to Yale versus the second year at Yale? Please explain.
>
>>Certainly there was a difference in how Rory treated the movers when she
>>first came to Yale vs. the second year, since it was Lorelai and Luke who
>>helped move her stuff to the dorm the first time. I would hope she treated
>>her mother and Luke differently than some movers she hired :)
>
> Going by memory sucks. I thought I was remembering the people who
>moved furniture for her at Yale, and the wording in a summary at TWoP
>made me think I had the right episode, but guess not. Am I thinking of
>some people who helped at the new Inn, maybe? I tried finding some
>detailed ep guides besides TWoP (since my memory + TWoP has been wrong
>twice now) but no luck yet. Feh.
Maybe you're thinking of when Colin & Finn moved Rory out of the
mansion in Prodigal Daughter Returns? The only other thing I can
think of that sounds like that was when Emily kept sending Lorelai
boxes of crap from the mansion via FakeFedEx early this season just to
get Lor's attention.
> I'll remember when it gets shown on reruns in a few weeks, and by then
>we'll be arguing about something else anyway.
Season finale is in two days, barring Emmy nominations or the lack
thereof, most people stop arguing on atgg over summer vacation. Unless
we can manage to start a neverending flamewar of some kind, just to,
y'know, have one.
David E. Milligan
"Sharpe Fan" <sharpeseagl...@yahooNoSpamm.com> wrote in message
news:Zbv7g.60827$eR6....@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
and Canopus, Kristina Smith (and any others I may have missed), who did all
the work for TwizTv (and us) the least I can do is add their link --
http://www.twiztv.com/scripts/gilmoregirls/
Now -- for the past week or so I've been reading the pros and cons,
and yeas and nays, of Rory's treatment of the domestic help she's been in
contact with, and specifically with Frank, the limo driver. So -- here is
my spin:
Rather than let Rory take his car, Logan called the limo service for
her, and Frank drove her home to Stars Hollow. It's very likely that when
they got there, Rory probably thanked him (Rory being Rory) and told him he
could leave. But he informed her that he was told that he was hers for the
day. So she says okay, but has to go inside to see about her mom.
Later she goes on a food/snacks/magazines run for Lorelai, and since
he was there, she has Frank drive her. And because she doesn't want to have
to deal with Taylor and all the gossip, she stops to get Lane to do the
shopping for her (and face it, who can resist letting your best friend ride
in a limo provided by your super-rich boyfriend?).
When Lane comes out with the goodies, Rory being Rory, she offers
Frank a ham and cheese sandwich. He may not like ham and cheese, or may be
dairy intolerant, but the fact that she gave it to him showed him that she
was thinking of him as a person, and not just "her driver."
And as far as we know, the only "order" she gave him was "Hold on,
Frank" when she wanted to get out and go after the ribbons in the market.
And when Luke was honking at the limo, she asked Frank if they were
honking at them. He said "I believe so" and she goes up through the
sun./moon roof to see (and possibly yell at) whoever it was.
They drop Lane off at her house, then go home.
Rory wants something for Lorelia to do while she's lying in bed, and
thinks of the TV. And Rory being Rory, she most likely asked Frank if he
would (or if he minded) carrying the TV upstairs. He could have refused,
saying driving was his job, not moving furniture. But he did it because Rory
hasn't been the bitch/diva he's probably had to deal with over the years,
and because he just did not mind doing it for her. And after he sets the TV
down, he asks if there is anything else he can get (he didn't have to ask)
Rory says no and thanks him, as does Lorelai.
Later, when they return to Logan's apartment, Rory says she's
returning Frank (Logan didn't know his name) and the limo and she that fed
him a nice sandwich. Which probably surprised Logan, but at the time he was
more concerned about Rory's formal tone of voice, so promptly forgot about
it.
There are other arguments I haven't mentioned (polishing the silver
with the maid, for example), but this is how I see "Rory and the Driver."
David
Michael Ikeda
> In article <00iq52pn077qu19gm...@4ax.com>,
> Rob Jensen <Shut...@aol.com> wrote:
>
>> That's totally a totally different point than Stacia was
>> alleging, which was an alleged negative change in Rory's
>> attitude toward employees.
>
> I think Stacia is quite a bit over the edge in her opinion of
> how much Rory's attitude has changed, but she is right-on that
> there is a change. As I said in another post the Limo was there
> to show how Rory is becoming more and more comforable operating
> in the world of the entitled. The world were hiring a Limo for
> the day to drive you 30 minutes home then hang around all day to
> drive you (and your friends) around a small town is reasonable
> (a taxi would have cost way less and been just as functional).
> The world where you have the chauffeur move furniture around in
> your Mother's house just because you can.
Rory didn't hire the limo. Logan did. Rory just accepted the gift
because she was desperate to get home to Star's Hollow. For that
matter, we don't even know whose idea it was to help move the
furniture. Perhaps Logan told Frank to help Rory any way he could.
Or perhaps Frank volunteered because he sympathized with Rory.
>
>> That's totally a totally different point than Stacia was
>> alleging, which was an alleged negative change in Rory's
>> attitude toward employees.
>
> Dude! Rory had to go out to the Limo and ask/tell Frank to come
> into the house and move the TV upstairs. That's not treating him
> with dignity and consideration, that's abusing his good nature
> -- rearranging furniture is not part of his job description.
>
> Also note the attitude she copped when someone had the audacity
> to honk at her precious little self while she was in the Limo.
> The more Rory lives in "Emily-World" the more she becomes like
> Emily. It's only minor and subtle changes so far, but the
> changes are there and are noticeable if you're not blinded by
> hero worship.
That wasn't "attitude". That was Rory being single-mindedly
focused on helping Lorelai and being temporarily jarred out of the
focus when she realized it was Luke honking at her.
Which reminds me. Among the other difficulties I have with the
suggestion that the handling of the chauffeur was some sign of some
important change in Rory's attitudes is that I don't have any
trouble seeing Rory acting basically the same way in the very
first episode if Lorelai had been having a nervous breakdown then.
For that matter, I don't have any trouble seeing Lorelai doing
basically the same things if Rory had been the one having a nervous
breakdown.
Stacia
>Gordon Mulcaster <usen...@telus.net> wrote:
>> I think Stacia is quite a bit over the edge in her opinion of
>> how much Rory's attitude has changed, but she is right-on that
>> there is a change.
I said that the show seems to be moving towards Rory being a middle
ground between Lor's attitude of not trusting anyone rich, and Emily's
overbearing attitude of entitlement. How is that "over the edge"?
>Rory didn't hire the limo. Logan did. Rory just accepted the gift
>because she was desperate to get home to Star's Hollow. For that
>matter, we don't even know whose idea it was to help move the
>furniture. Perhaps Logan told Frank to help Rory any way he could.
>Or perhaps Frank volunteered because he sympathized with Rory.
But if it's not on the show then it's just speculation. Either we
have to see it happen, hear someone talk about what happened, or it has
to be clearly implied.
So we can pretend Logan told Frank to carry furniture, but we never
saw it so it never happened. Since Rory was organizing everything to
make sure her mother was comfortable in her bedroom, it's implied that
Rory was responsible for Frank carrying a TV upstairs to the bedroom.
Remember, Rory's car didn't have to be in the shop that day. And they
didn't have to show anyone carrying a TV upstairs at all. The writers
could have had Rory drive to SH herself and not mention how the TV got
upstairs and no one would have noticed. Since the writers chose to
include these elements though, it means they did so for a reason.
Anna said it better than myself, it's all part of the show's
illustration of Rory's comfortable attitude towards wealth.
Stacia
Michael Ikeda
news:e3orlj$sls$2...@news.xmission.com:
> Michael Ikeda <mmi...@erols.com> writes:
>>Rory didn't hire the limo. Logan did. Rory just accepted the
>>gift because she was desperate to get home to Star's Hollow.
>>For that matter, we don't even know whose idea it was to help
>>move the furniture. Perhaps Logan told Frank to help Rory any
>>way he could. Or perhaps Frank volunteered because he
>>sympathized with Rory.
>
> But if it's not on the show then it's just speculation.
> Either we
> have to see it happen, hear someone talk about what happened, or
> it has to be clearly implied.
> So we can pretend Logan told Frank to carry furniture, but we
> never
> saw it so it never happened. Since Rory was organizing
> everything to make sure her mother was comfortable in her
> bedroom, it's implied that Rory was responsible for Frank
> carrying a TV upstairs to the bedroom.
We could also note that Logan likes grand gestures and his "He'll
take good care of you" might suggest instructions for more than
just giving Rory a lift home. Or that Frank seems to be the type
of long-term employee who might decide he should help more
extensively even without explicit instructions from Logan. But all
scenarios, including yours, are speculation. And about an
unimportant side issue.
> Remember, Rory's car didn't have to be in the shop that day.
> And they
> didn't have to show anyone carrying a TV upstairs at all. The
> writers could have had Rory drive to SH herself and not mention
> how the TV got upstairs and no one would have noticed. Since
> the writers chose to include these elements though, it means
> they did so for a reason.
Of course they did so for a reason. The reason was the effect on
the developing Logan-Rory relationship. That's what including the
car and driver sequence is primarily about. It also helps make
some points about the Lorelai-Rory relationship. And provides
Lorelai with a positive impression about Logan to start balancing
out all the negative impressions. And a way to illustrate that
Rory isn't angry at Luke.
> Anna said it better than myself, it's all part of the show's
> illustration of Rory's comfortable attitude towards wealth.
>
Except that there isn't anything that Rory does that she wouldn't
have done in Episode 1, Season 1. Or, for that matter, that
Lorelai wouldn't have done if it was Rory having a breakdown.
(Of course setting up the situation for Lorelai or Season 1 Rory
would have been more difficult but it could easily have played out
in basically the same way if they had managed to set it up.)