SPOILERS: The Return of Martin Crane
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Phew! I've watched this ep three times now, and I'm still grappling with it.
Let me quote you something that was running through my head all during the ep:
"But perhaps the reason it's so hard to relate is because it's hard to be
dissapointed, to know that the schizoids, compulsive cleaners, alcoholics, and
dullards, all the relatives who come home to roost, are not so different from
us."
At the beginning of the passage, the author identifies this as "the strain of
not relating." Over the course of the series, the Cranes have finally settled
into each other; they relate to each other better now than any other time in
their lives. I had to really think to remember that the theme song, "tossed
salads and scrambled eggs," about a situation that can't be undone once it's
done, was about Frasier wishing he hadn't reconnected with his family.
This episode was about expectations; how one feels enormous pressure to love
one's family, but it's hard to feel that when they have a million and one
irritating quirks that make it hard to even *like* them. I liked the recurring
themes: Martin feeling dissatisfied with his boys ("I can't even rely on my own
sons."). Frasier trying to be proactive and forcing a connection (his repeated
apologies); Niles just feeling helpless to change the relationship he has with
his father, and desperatly wising he could. What struck home with these themes
is that even though the Cranes have a *better* relationship, the episode
anaylized what problems still exist between them. It reminded me of a tv
writer who once said that he gets his ideas for an episode by examining the
series and asking, "What isn't working here?"
The ep was also about how dispirate a family can become when the members don't
make an effort. A very common theme in families, especially in the 50's and
60's when the Crane boys were young, was that the father fulfilled his part of
the marriage bargain by earning the money. The wife raised the kids; and
subsequently, there's a huge population of adult kids who never got to know
their fathers. Martin's partner was right: a good family doesn't just happen,
especially once the kids are grown. "You have to make an effort." Martin
pushed his kids away years ago by not telling them how much he loved him; and
even though they are close now, he still does that. I think it was Nat who
said that the kiss at the end wasn't enough. You're right, one kiss doesn't
erase a lifetime of disconnection. But it's also terribly realistic. It's a
start. Martin expressed affection once, and it was stilted and forced. But it
takes practice. Over time, it'll get easier.
On another note, having just rewatched Hot Pursuit a few days ago, I was very
happy to see Niles' fears about his father getting hurt on the job being
revisited. In HP, Niles says "I always worried about you. That's what it's like
when your dad is a cop." I wasn't quite sure why Niles was so much more afraid
than Frasier that Martin could be hurt or killed on the job. In TROMC, we were
reminded that taking risks is something that's new to Niles, something he's
only been doing since around SBSB. As a child, Niles didn't like that
everytime Dad went to work, whether or not he came home safe and sound was
unknown. And that's a pretty BIG thing not to know, and pretty scary to a
child. I do'nt know why Frasier was immune to this; it could be any of a
hundred reasons. But as Niles grew up, this part of his personality stayed.
Last thing: the hospital scene. *Brilliantly* done. (BTW, Niles had been
crying, right? It wasn't just me who thought that, right?) SO realistic, how
even when something terrible happens, the old habits of not knowing how to
communicate with each other persist. Did you notice the easy affection Martin
and his partner had, a kind of comraderie that was painfully absent between he
and his kids? They pointed it out with Roz, too: Martin feels more comfortable
expressing how he's feeling to anyone but his kids.
There was a LOT going on in this ep, and I could say more, but I'll stop now.
Aura
~*~
"What was it about that night? Connection in an isolating age?"
(Rent)
subtlety: www.gurlpages.com/ofnone
RPeck1019
responded to Martin's order to "come here" by walking over like real "boy's" ,
then Frasier apologizing and Niles blaming Frasier, which is what they did as
young people, which is where they are "stuck" in terms of their side of the
father-son relationship when it comes to intense feelings. It plays as a great
statement about relationships as well as great comedy (ie Kelsey and David's
comic talents). There are so many instances of each Frasier character wobbling
back and forth between their growing up selves and where they have been before
emotionally. I like to see Daphne getting feisty again, as well as being newly
vulnerable. Who wouldn't identify with the sometimes inconsistent, painful and
hilarious process of growing beyond and within ourselves at the same time!!
such a superb cast! they have NO rivals!
speck
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Speck (cool name) said:
>I agree with what you've said.
Sweet! Thanks!
> Also I think it's interesting that the "boys"
>responded to Martin's order to "come here" by walking over like real "boy's"
Oh, wasn't that adorable? Niles actually *looked* about ten years old, which is
probably how he felt. They made a good point, that birth order never goes
away. That no matter how old they get, older brothers still act like older
brothers and younger brothers act like younger brothers.
>which is what they did as
>young people, which is where they are "stuck" in terms of their side of the
>father-son relationship when it comes to intense feelings.
Yup, exactly. You can't grow up in your parents' eyes, and it isn't because
parents don't want their kids to grow up. It's because both the kids and the
parents get stuck in those roles, even when the kids are in their 40's. :)
I miss feisty-daphne too! Though she was snippy to Frasier in the last ep--
that's ALMOST fiesty. And "so what happens when your nibs explode?" was
vintage-daphne.
Rose Allsopp
"RPeck1019" <rpec...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20011011115550...@mb-cf.aol.com...
Hello everyone,
This is the first time I've posted to this list - you sound a friendly
bunch. I've just returned from a holiday in Hawaii and I was lucky enough to
catch this episode - being in the UK I'll have to wait until next year for
Channel 4 to show the whole series.
Just wanted to pick up on the last scene - when Niles says "Frasier started
it" I had flashbacks to my own childhood and fights with my elder sister. I
could hear my mum saying "Well, why don't you finish it then!" Martin
kissing his sons was unexpected and the looks on Frasier's & Niles' faces
were priceless.
Also, while I'm wandering down memory lane, the Niles/Martin scene in
hospital touched a chord with me - when my own father was in hospital I
found it difficult to know what to say. I think it was Dorcie, elsewhere on
this list, who said it was a powerful episode - I agree.
Rose
Body back in the UK, but still operating on Hawaii time!
Mike and Dorcie
Hullo, welcome to our little group. Thank you for your kind words. IMO, we can
be pretty friendly, more so than most Usenet groups. Of course, since we are
still an unmodified Usenet group we have our rough periods, too. Still, this is
a great place and it's always fun to see new people.
>
> Just wanted to pick up on the last scene - when Niles says "Frasier started
> it" I had flashbacks to my own childhood and fights with my elder sister. I
> could hear my mum saying "Well, why don't you finish it then!"
LOL! Yeah, that scene immediately made me think of my childhood. The thing is,
and please forgive me for being so serious in my first reply to you, but the
thing I always find slightly irritating when they do these scenes (My husband
*hates* them) is that it seems so alien to me in that my parents wouldn't even
think of treating me like that anymore, especially in public.
> Martin
> kissing his sons was unexpected and the looks on Frasier's & Niles' faces
> were priceless.
Agreed. It's so rare to get close-ups on "Frasier" that was a delightful
surprise to get this one.
>
> Also, while I'm wandering down memory lane, the Niles/Martin scene in
> hospital touched a chord with me - when my own father was in hospital I
> found it difficult to know what to say. I think it was Dorcie, elsewhere on
> this list, who said it was a powerful episode - I agree.
>
Oh, major cool points for remembering me.<g>
I still haven't commented too much on this episode, which is rare for me,
because I just can't bring myself to be decisive about it. It's one of those
things I want to think about for a little while before I talk about it.
>
> Rose
> Body back in the UK, but still operating on Hawaii time!
LOL
Well, again, welcome to the group.
Dorcie
Marissa...Pets Rule
>This is the first time I've posted to this list - you sound a friendly
>bunch
Hi, Rose! Welcome to the group!
Marissa
---
Frasier: They're looking for a replacement for "Let's Go Camping With Dan &
Jenny".
Martin: What happened to them?
Frasier: They don't know.
-Season 7's "Dr. Mary"
what name
>The thing is,<snip> but the
>thing I always find slightly irritating when they do these scenes (My husband
>*hates* them) is that it seems so alien to me in that my parents wouldn't
>even
>think of treating me like that anymore, especially in public.
I agree; I was thinking that too. Did you see the looks on Roz and Daphne's
faces? Like they wanted to be a million miles from Frasier's living room. <g> I
guess it was a little over-the-top, but it was to prove a point and to end the
episode quickly. ;) And to be fair, the four of them *were* acting pretty
childishly. :)
Laura Brown
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"what name" <ofnon...@aol.comspamsued> wrote in message
news:20011013194419...@mb-mm.aol.com...
> Dorcie said:
> >The thing is,<snip> but the
> >thing I always find slightly irritating when they do these scenes (My
husband
> >*hates* them) is that it seems so alien to me in that my parents wouldn't
> >even
> >think of treating me like that anymore, especially in public.
>
> I agree; I was thinking that too. Did you see the looks on Roz and
Daphne's
> faces? Like they wanted to be a million miles from Frasier's living room.
<g> I
> guess it was a little over-the-top, but it was to prove a point and to end
the
> episode quickly. ;) And to be fair, the four of them *were* acting pretty
> childishly. :)
>
> Aura
>
I thought that Roz and Daphne were both positively shocked. I mean, they
do know Martin and his interactions with his sons quite well, especially
Daphne. As for the fighting, I thought it seemed like two couples arguing,
someone else said that Roz and Frasier were acting like siblings, watching
it again, I had to agree. I like the rock, papers, scissors line. It took a
while for me to figure it out, but Daphne and Niles were teaming up against
Frasier, or so he thought. Really cool!
~Laura
what name
> I thought it seemed like two couples arguing,
>someone else said that Roz and Frasier were acting like siblings,
<chuckle> I saw it as two couples, but now that you mention it, Roz's "HEY!" as
she rushed out of Martin's room was very sibling-y. Plus, just the endless
bickering with no one willing to give in is sibling-y, too.
>It took a
>while for me to figure it out, but Daphne and Niles were teaming up against
>Frasier, or so he thought.
They were? Totally missed that! How did they do that?
Kreisleriana
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"Rose Allsopp" <rjal...@petal54.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
news:9q8ju6$4a0$1...@newsg4.svr.pol.co.uk...
Welcome, and please remember the spoiler space.
Laura Brown
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"what name" <ofnon...@aol.comspamsued> wrote in message
news:20011014212609...@mb-bd.aol.com...
> SPOILERS
>
> > I thought it seemed like two couples arguing,
> >someone else said that Roz and Frasier were acting like siblings,
>
> <chuckle> I saw it as two couples, but now that you mention it, Roz's
"HEY!" as
> she rushed out of Martin's room was very sibling-y. Plus, just the
endless
> bickering with no one willing to give in is sibling-y, too.
>
> >It took a
> >while for me to figure it out, but Daphne and Niles were teaming up
against
> >Frasier, or so he thought.
>
> They were? Totally missed that! How did they do that?
>
> Aura
>
When Roz opens the door the first time you hear Frasier say something to
the extent of "You two are not playing fair, since when does paper beat a
rock!" Either way he was obviously referring to both Niles and Daphne.
~Laura
Donnie Falcone
<rjal...@petal54.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
>
CUT
>Hello everyone,
>This is the first time I've posted to this list - you sound a friendly
>bunch. I've just returned from a holiday in Hawaii and I was lucky enough to
>catch this episode - being in the UK I'll have to wait until next year for
Hiya Rose, nice to see another Brit. Maybe youj'll take pity on me and
tell me what this title means. Did Martin go to hospital or something.
Why's he come back ???
Donnie "Well She's New And Doesn't Know Me" Falcone
Mike and Dorcie
I'm only doing this because it's my favorite line, but I belive his exact words
were "Are you people insane?! How could paper beat a rock?"
Dorcie
Marissa...Pets Rule
>CUT
>>Hello everyone,
>>This is the first time I've posted to this list - you sound a friendly
>>bunch. I've just returned from a holiday in Hawaii and I was lucky enough to
>>catch this episode - being in the UK I'll have to wait until next year for
>Hiya Rose, nice to see another Brit. Maybe youj'll take pity on me and
>tell me what this title means. Did Martin go to hospital or something.
>Why's he come back ???
>
>
>Donnie "Well She's New And Doesn't Know Me" Falcone
Do you really wanna know??
S
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Martin goes back to work.
Alan E Hill
>Why's he come back ???
Assuming it is Martin Crane ...
--
ö Alan E Hill : Bristol/UK
~
ny...@u-v-y-y.arg : rot13
MAE MIN
I'm only doing this because it's my favorite line, but I belive his exact words
were "Are you people insane?! How could paper beat a rock?" >>
Will someone explain the meaning of this for those of us who are still in the
dark and why this is funny?
mae...@aol.com
Mike and Dorcie
Have you ever heard of "Paper, Rock Scissors"? If not, look it up on google.
Dorcie
Kreisleriana
"Alan E Hill" <ny...@u-v-y-y.net> wrote in message
news:9usrstc1cm556dvtu...@127.0.0.1...
> On Wed, 17 Oct 2001 19:31:17 GMT, Donnie Falcone wrote:
>
> >Why's he come back ???
>
> Assuming it is Martin Crane ...
Weird thing. In the last scenes, he looked an awful lot like Gerard
Depardieu.
Theresa
Laura Brown
"Mike and Dorcie" <miken...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:3BCE0284...@mindspring.com...
Yup, that's it. I saw you post it later on. the "you people" part makes
it obvious Frasier is referring to both Niles and Daphne. If not he's
referring that Niles has a multiple personality disorder. ;-)
~Laura
Alan E Hill
>Weird thing. In the last scenes, he looked an awful lot like Gerard
>Depardieu.
Martin's had rhinoplasty too???
Kreisleriana
"Laura Brown" <tov...@bu.edu> wrote in message
news:9qmkns$f9j$1...@news3.bu.edu...
"It takes them forever to fill out the name tags."
>
Donnie Falcone
wrote:
Wows...Good for him. That should be an episode worth watching
Donnie.
Rose Allsopp
"Donnie Falcone" <fal...@dinonino.fsnet.co.uk> wrote in message
news:3bcddc22...@news.freeserve.net...
Hi there,
I didn't know if he'd gone anywhere either - this was the only time I've
ever seen an episode "fresh" - I assumed it meant he was returning to work.
Rose
Star.
>Hi, Rose! Welcome to the group!
&i know this is late but I've had a hell week at work &aohell newsgroups has
been acting wierd for me. :P But welcome to the group Rose!
(hey ... does this mean i'm not the newbie now? :P)
&&loveth,
Star.
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Star (eto...@zapo.net)
AIM: Inside Her Heart || ICQ: 81756084 || MSN: shatt...@hotmail.com
Star.
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>>Martin goes back to work.
>Wows...Good for him. That should be an episode worth watching
<agrees> I cannot /wait/ to see it ... damn being in the British zone! :)
S.
/who wishes they could see the eps now.
Donnie Falcone
>Marissa said:
>
>>Hi, Rose! Welcome to the group!
>
>&i know this is late but I've had a hell week at work &aohell newsgroups has
>been acting wierd for me. :P But welcome to the group Rose!
>
>(hey ... does this mean i'm not the newbie now? :P)
>
>&&loveth,
>Star.
Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe a probationary period of either
One Year or 500 Posts is the current requirement.
So no, you're not the newbie :-)
Donnie " Ahh She's Young And Naive And I Like Her" Falcone
Donnie Falcone
>Donnie & Marissa said:
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>>>Martin goes back to work.
>
>>Wows...Good for him. That should be an episode worth watching
>
><agrees> I cannot /wait/ to see it ... damn being in the British zone! :)
"Zone"? What are we, occupied or something ? Oh, what,s that Oliver,
the Yanks have occupied our TVs. Okaaaay.
>
>
>S.
>/who wishes they could see the eps now.
Is that the Royal "they" or the "military" one?
>
Donnie.
Star.
>So no, you're not the newbie :-)
:P
>Donnie " Ahh She's Young And Naive And I Like Her" Falcone
<mischievous smirk> You think you have me alllllll figured out, dontcha? <g>
S.
Star.
>"Zone"? What are we, occupied or something ? Oh, what,s that Oliver,
>the Yanks have occupied our TVs. Okaaaay.
LOL!
Donnie Falcone
>Donnie said:
>
>>So no, you're not the newbie :-)
>
>:P
>
>>Donnie " Ahh She's Young And Naive And I Like Her" Falcone
>
><mischievous smirk> You think you have me alllllll figured out, dontcha? <g>
It's a gift.
Donnie
Star.
>> <mischievous smirk> You think you have
>> me alllllll figured out, dontcha? <g>
>It's a gift.
I think you might wanna look for the receipt &exchange it for a new one ;)
S.
/<g>
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Star (eto...@zapo.net)
AIM: shatterable || ICQ: 81756084 || Y!P: lackofemotion.