Bokman7757 wrote in message
<199806091740...@ladder01.news.aol.com>...
You'd be amazed what can be done with Photoshop. . .
Jane
~ (The squiggle formerly known as James Boswell) | ICQ #: 1653327
'Veni, Vidi, Vid_mode, We came, We Saw, We played at a higher resolution'
Bokman7757 wrote in message
<199806131745...@ladder03.news.aol.com>...
>No, nothing in it except her from the waist up.
You guys want to get some jollies, you can view Mrs. Kelsey Grammer at:
--http://www.comictrek.com/wow/camille.shtml
--http://www.comictrek.com/wow/camille2.shtml
--http://www.aseinternet.com/celebs/cdonatacci.html
. . .plus various and sundry others, to most of which you have to pay
admission.
What can I say? I like making mischief.
Enjoy! Make sure you have a couple of tissues (or, if you're Alex Portnoy,
a piece of raw liver) handy.
Jane
: >
: >Enjoy! Make sure you have a couple of tissues (or, if you're Alex Portnoy,
: >a piece of raw liver) handy.
: >
: (Dare I ask) Who is Alex Portnoy? Why the raw liver?
Alex Portnoy is the perpetually horny teenage protagonist of Philip Roth's
novel _Portnoy's Complaint_. (Raw liver? I don't remember that part..which
is probably just as well...)
Brian
Well, I was tempted to post a big cyber-bullseye on the original message and
tell folks "Ready, aim, fire", but I figure if it doesn't move them to
outrage on their own, it's not really my place to get them all het up about
those things.
Scott
http://members.aol.com/nvraptor/peri.html
I *LOVE* that novel :-) To answer the question, Portnoy masturbated
into his family's dinner one night, and then ate it with them (well,
what could he do? Confess? Forget saying you're not hungry - the kid's
mother made him eat at knife-point if he didn't clean his plate!).
What's really weird is that I knew immediately why the raw liver,
but I had no idea what the tissues were supposed to be for until I
read the Portnoy reference.
epbrown
(note: this thread, about masturbating to pictures of Mrs. Grammer
and locating nude shots of Ms. Leeves, remains unmolested on a group
that gets the heebie-jeebies for weeks at the very mention of DHP
being gay. This is the sort of thing that I find endearing about
humanity :-)
Stop by the Portable Computing Center for
the comp.sys.laptops FAQ.
http://www.enteract.com/~epbrown
NVRaptor wrote in message ...
>Emanuel Brown wrote in message <6mcg31$s...@bgtnsc02.worldnet.att.net>...
>> (note: this thread, about masturbating to pictures of Mrs. Grammer
>>and locating nude shots of Ms. Leeves, remains unmolested on a group
>>that gets the heebie-jeebies for weeks at the very mention of DHP
>>being gay. This is the sort of thing that I find endearing about
>>humanity :-)
>
>
>Well, I was tempted to post a big cyber-bullseye on the original message
and
>tell folks "Ready, aim, fire", but I figure if it doesn't move them to
>outrage on their own, it's not really my place to get them all het up about
>those things.
Okay. Wanna get 'em crazy? Kelsey's a drag queen.
When I first saw the mention of a cyber-bullseye, I thought you were going
to suggest that it
be Photo-shopped onto a certain area of Mrs. Grammer's anatomy. With a big
hole in the middle, perhaps.
Jane
Thanks for pointing that out. Despite what those people who get all het up
about it like to pretend, it has absolutely nothing to do with respect for
DHP's privacy, and everything to do with homophobia (in the true, phobia
sense).
In other words, they're desperately screaming "PLEASE don't remind me about
that horrible thing about someone I like."
--
| David Migicovsky, d m i g i c o v at m y n a dot c o m
| For Showbiz Gossip and More, click on news://alt.culture.fabulous
| Join the ASG Mailing list at: http://www.onelist.com/subscribe.cgi/asg
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> Emanuel Brown wrote in message <6mcg31$s...@bgtnsc02.worldnet.att.net>...
> > (note: this thread, about masturbating to pictures of Mrs. Grammer
> >and locating nude shots of Ms. Leeves, remains unmolested on a group
> >that gets the heebie-jeebies for weeks at the very mention of DHP
> >being gay. This is the sort of thing that I find endearing about
> >humanity :-)
>
> Thanks for pointing that out. Despite what those people who get all het up
> about it like to pretend, it has absolutely nothing to do with respect for
> DHP's privacy, and everything to do with homophobia (in the true, phobia
> sense).
>
> In other words, they're desperately screaming "PLEASE don't remind me about
> that horrible thing about someone I like."
This sounds like paranoia to me. I hope I'm wrong.
maro
--
NOTE! If you use the Reply button, edit out "n0spam" from my address.
Dave Adams wrote in message <358B12FF...@enter.net>...
>David Migicovsky wrote:
>
>> Despite what those people who get all het up
>> about it like to pretend, it has absolutely nothing to do with respect
for
>> DHP's privacy, and everything to do with homophobia (in the true, phobia
>> sense).
>>
>> In other words, they're desperately screaming "PLEASE don't remind me
about
>> that horrible thing about someone I like."
>
>This sounds like paranoia to me. I hope I'm wrong.
>
It's sort of a paranoia - but, in my opinion, more like "breast-beating".
Gay people, Jews, women, and blacks (that takes in most of the human race!)
love to do it - to whine about how everyone hates them and how oppressed
they are. I am both a woman and a Jew, so I've been guilty of it myself
more than once. But it really gets old after awhile.
Jane
>> (note: this thread, about masturbating to pictures of Mrs. Grammer
>>and locating nude shots of Ms. Leeves, remains unmolested on a group
>>that gets the heebie-jeebies for weeks at the very mention of DHP
>>being gay. This is the sort of thing that I find endearing about
>>humanity :-)
>
>
I just thought I'd share with Emanuel how loudly and long I laughed at
this *very* astute comment!
Interesting insight, Dave (Adams, not Migicovsky). [Sorry... don't mean
to imply that D.M. is not interesting, only that I'm addressing this
particular question to Mr. Adams.]
Can you provide a clarification as to exactly where (i.e., 'who?') the
paranoia exists? Just curious...
CPJ.
P.S. (everyone): thought I should switch to a (marginally, at least)
more, er, accurate subject title......
Let's try it. The next time someone comes in here asking if David Hyde
Pierce is gay, or stating it right out, let's see how long it takes someone
to come down on them for not respecting his privacy.
> Let's try it. The next time someone comes in here asking if David Hyde
> Pierce is gay, or stating it right out, let's see how long it takes someone
> to come down on them for not respecting his privacy.
But respecting someone's privacy and hating his sexual preference are too
different subjects.
If people ask me about my sex life, I'll find them to be extremely rude.
> It's sort of a paranoia - but, in my opinion, more like "breast-beating".
> Gay people, Jews, women, and blacks (that takes in most of the human race!)
> love to do it - to whine about how everyone hates them and how oppressed
> they are. I am both a woman and a Jew, so I've been guilty of it myself
> more than once. But it really gets old after awhile.
Unfortunately there are a lot of barbarians who hate everything and everyone.
Just recently a black man was lynched in Texas, which proves those whining
people were right all along.
Civilized people respect each other, and give each other space. I think we
have a very long way to go, to reach that perfect harmony.
> Can you provide a clarification as to exactly where (i.e., 'who?') the
> paranoia exists? Just curious...
I thought both Emanuel Brown and David Migicovsky were being a little bit paranoid.
Both believe respecting Mr. Pierce's privacy, means we hate his homosexuality. I
like to think homophobes are in minority. Am I wrong?
My point was, that this respect for privacy extends *only* to gay people.
And that is nothing more than homophobia.
Regarding people asking about your sex life, I'd find it rude too, if people
asked me about mine.
But my sexual orientation is not my sex life and it *is* public knowledge as
yours is, presumably. I'll also add that it is *not* my sexual preference.
That is a term that many gay people consider offensive and is one that has
no defined meaning -- anti-discrimination laws refer to sexual orientation.
I know you did not use it to give offense, but it is something you should be
aware of. I'll quote the Canadian Press Stylebook. "Prefer (meaning use in
preference) sexual orientation to sexual preference; gay people do not view
their sexuality as an option."
No one has *ever* discussed DHP's sex life here, although KG's sex life is
speculated on at length. Damn few people in this newsgroup have *any*
respect for KG's privacy or feelings. Only when someone says that DHP lives
with a man (which he does, quite openly) and can therefore be assumed to be
gay, do people start talking about respect for privacy. No one would ever
object to someone assuming Helen Hunt is straight because she lives with
Hank Azaria.
David Lee has explained it her far better than I can. This was something he
posted last year in response to someone who asked if Dan Butler's sexual
orientation mattered:
Discussing his, mine, or anyone involved with the shows' sexual
orientation on the FRASIER newsgroup (despite what the FAQ sheet states)
is *absolutely* appropriate. For instance, we talk about Kelsey Grammer's
quite often. As I have stated before, sexual orientation has never been
been a private matter in this country. Heterosexuals proclaim it in
literally thousands of ways: in weddings, proms, showers, public displays
of affection, by dating, getting engaged, going steady and on and on. It
seem that only when it comes to gay people do we hear "Does it really
matter? and best of all "I don't care what you do in you bedroom as long
as you don't tell me about it". The fact is, we are much much more than
what we do in the bedroom (as are heterosexuals). We are all mutifaceted,
complex people (as are heterosexuals) and to keep quiet about it is to
encourage the sort of second class personhood that we are just now
starting break from.
(the full post is on Deja News. The thread is titled "Re: DAN Butler: gay?"
***************
To that, I will only add that I wish all you nice straight people would stop
being so damn concerned about the privacy of gay people who are not being
private. It's condescending at best and thinly-veiled homophobia at worst.
One thing it's not, is treating us and our sexual orientation as equal to
you and yours. And I will settle for nothing less.
I am tired of hearing from straight people how there is still homophobia in
the world. Do you think I don't know that? Do you think other forms of
bigotry have been conquered? Does it not ever occur to you that it just
might be somewhat offensive for straight people to be lecturing gay people
on this issue?
This is, after all, an issue that is overwhelmingly of importance *only* to
gay people. I'm not saying that gay people speak with one voice on this, or
any other issue. I am saying that perhaps it's a subject best left to us.
For one thing, straight people ever seem to accomplish by doing it is
offending and upsetting gay people -- and sending a message to closeted gay
people that yes, there *is* something wrong and dirty about being gay.
That's not what you're trying to do, but it is what you're accomplishing.
Imagine the arrogance I'd be accused of (and the derision I'd be greeted
with) if I, a white Canadian, tried to tell an African-American about the
realities of racism in America.
David Hyde Pierce lives openly as a gay man. There is nothing wrong with
mentioning it, even if he has not publicly stated that he is homosexual.
Kelsey Grammer lives openly as a straight man. There is nothing wrong with
mentioning it, even if he has not publicly stated that he is heterosexual.
It is not a secret who either of them shares his life with. Both of them
take their partner to public events. Speculation as to what they do in the
bedroom or why they choose the partners they do is rather rude, but no one
has ever done that regarding DHP, only KG. Mentioning their long-term
relationships is not rude, anymore than mentioning that John Mahoney is from
Manchester or that Peri Gilpin is from Austin. Not really relevant to the
show, but somewhat interesting to fans and in no way an invasion of privacy.
It's information that they themselves have willingly made public.
> My point was, that this respect for privacy extends *only* to gay people.
> And that is nothing more than homophobia.
I think respect for privacy must extend to everyone.
> Regarding people asking about your sex life, I'd find it rude too, if people
> asked me about mine.
>
> But my sexual orientation is not my sex life and it *is* public knowledge as
> yours is, presumably. I'll also add that it is *not* my sexual preference.
> That is a term that many gay people consider offensive and is one that has
> no defined meaning -- anti-discrimination laws refer to sexual orientation.
> I know you did not use it to give offense, but it is something you should be
> aware of. I'll quote the Canadian Press Stylebook. "Prefer (meaning use in
> preference) sexual orientation to sexual preference; gay people do not view
> their sexuality as an option."
I'm sorry if I used a word which gives offense to anyone. I never thought gay
people had an option. I think all people should be open and honest with
themselves, so they can be better human beings.
I think homophobes are jealous of gays.
> No one has *ever* discussed DHP's sex life here, although KG's sex life is
> speculated on at length. Damn few people in this newsgroup have *any*
> respect for KG's privacy or feelings. Only when someone says that DHP lives
> with a man (which he does, quite openly) and can therefore be assumed to be
> gay, do people start talking about respect for privacy. No one would ever
> object to someone assuming Helen Hunt is straight because she lives with
> Hank Azaria.
I see your point and I agree with you. However, if you didn't tell me about it,
I would have stayed ignorant of your feelings.
Thank you for sharing your feelings with us. As I understand it, you want to be
treated the same way as everyone else. I'm sure you know, most people
misunderstand each other every day of their lives and it has nothing to do with
being gay or straight.
I think politically correct people have done more harm than good, because people
are afraid of speaking their minds, so misunderstanding each other goes on and
on.
What do you think?
maro
BTW, why gay people prefer "David" to "Dave"?
Hmm. My post (actually a small PS to a thread reply I'd made) was
just a harmless observation - I hardly think the group regulars are
homophobic, especially since I feel that word is bandied around too
much. I was once told I must be homophobic because I said I felt it
would be unpleasant to kiss a man with a beard (umm, facial hair, to
be more specific, though you Tom Cruise fans won't get the double
entendre, perhaps :-) This was after seeing two guys making out
passionately one rainy Saturday night in a doorway on Halsted St. I
still think that, but maybe their facial hair wasn't/isn't as coarse
as my goatee's, despite them being African-Americans, too. Then again,
an old girlfriend liked the roughness of mine, so I suppose some men
would as well...but I digress. For me, homophobia is rarely "Ew,
gross" and more of a "Kill them all, throw them in camps, lock up the
kids and get a rope!" kind of thing. A lot of things labeled as
homophobia strike me as a matter of taste, rather than fear or hate.
Just my opinion.
As far as homophobia being in the minority, I'd say that's
optimistic. A radio poll this week in Chicago had 75% of the
respondents stating that they feel homosexuality should still be
treated as a mental illness, as it was 20+ years ago.
epbrown
<snipped a bunch of good stuff>
>
>It is not a secret who either of them shares his life with. Both of them
>take their partner to public events. Speculation as to what they do in the
>bedroom or why they choose the partners they do is rather rude, but no one
>has ever done that regarding DHP, only KG. Mentioning their long-term
>relationships is not rude, anymore than mentioning that John Mahoney is from
>Manchester or that Peri Gilpin is from Austin. Not really relevant to the
>show, but somewhat interesting to fans and in no way an invasion of privacy.
>It's information that they themselves have willingly made public.
>
>
Thank you, David. A well thought out and reasoned response. Thanks again.
I've been following this thread for some time now and I've snipped away
all but the above sentence fragment.
If it's relevent to the show, it belongs in the newsgroup.
If it's of interest to the fans of the show, then it belongs in this
newsgroup.
That's it.
With so much non-group-related garbage floating around all over UseNet,
I would think that ANY post that deals with the actors or characters of
the newsgroup subject should be ok, acceptable, even encouraged.
I think a post of a URL for nude pictures of cast members ABSOLUTELY
belongs in this newsgroup. Why not? Just like a post offering Frasier
on video, or a post simply stating, "I like the show and here are the 6
reasons why." As long as the posts concerns the subject, it belongs.
That's all.
FWIW, what *I* like most about Frasier is the constant argument between
Niles (years of expensive one-on-one therapy) and Frasier (2-minute
quickie therapy for the masses). For two guys who both love the same
wines, symphonies, operas, restaurants etc., this is the one huge
glaring difference between them.
------------------------------------------------------------
rat...@EYEcanect.net replace EYE with I
(Hammer nail here--> <-- for a new monitor.)
SeinFAQ http://www.geocities.com/Hollywood/Set/7217/faq.html
------------------------------------------------------------
>
>Okay. Wanna get 'em crazy? Kelsey's a drag queen.
>
No way! You're kidding, right?