Ramblings of a bored person
Michele
Hmm, where to start. Well, how about the darling golden boy. Except for never seeing the sun, why would he possibly really want to be mortal? He obviously doesn't remember how it was. I know, I know, the whole point of the show is that it is a bad thing to be a vampire and that you have to look for redemption. I can agree that if you are squemish about blood, it might be a problem. The show tried to establish that vampires aren't necessarily evil, and they don't have to kill to feed (although it might be more satisfying that way). So you don't have to kill and your not a child of the devil. So what's wrong with being a vampire? Is there some reason you can't be an in bewteen vamp? Not as extreme as LaCroix's (supposed) ruthlessness but also not as extreme as Nick's totally hating everything about being a vamp. Of course, if Nick wasn't conflicted, there never would have been a show.
I always thought that by the second season, Nick was pretty much giving lip service to wanting to be a mortal. He obviously didn't really. He wouldn't do absolutely everything in his power to cooperate with Nat, he used his powers to assist him in his police work, he kept going to LaCroix for help with various things, he still visited Janette, etc. More like he was so used to the idea of wanting to be mortal, it just became habit. I think if he really, really, wanted to be mortal, he would have gotten Nat and wandered off to some place a little more secluded, bought her some lab equipment and stayed away from temptations. I also think if LaCroix had been a little more reasonable about what was acceptable vamp behaviour, Nick would not have decided he wanted to be mortal.
Speaking of LaCroix.... If he would have said, okay, fine, you don't want to be a ruthless vampire, killing left and right, playing cat and mouse with your meals, you want to be friends with mortals, not kill to eat and learn more of the world and maybe contribute something? That's fine with me, just be sure to clean up after yourself, be careful of resistors and don't forget to move on when people expect you to be showing signs of aging. See ya, I'll check back with you in a decade or so. Nick would have become bored without LC around pretty quick. LC checks back in a decade and what do you know: Oh, you would like me to hang around? Sure, we could have some fun together. Do some research, pick up chicks, have a bite to eat, etc.... but then I have to go, Jeanette is expecting me. You want to go with me? Sure, come along...
But again, if he had been a reasonable sort of father, we would have no show. You would think after all that time, he would have learned that Nick does the oppisite of whatever LC says to do. Most children go through that phase.
I'm sure the reason Jeanette never went through that phase is because she knew what her life had become and could become again if she did not listen to someone who had her best interests at heart. Also, even though she was of a noble family, women were brought up to listen to men. She was very grateful to LC and knew everything she has now was because LC gave it to her. She wasn't always perfectly obediant, she just knew how to pick which things were most important to fight about. She also knew how to manipulate LC and Nick to get what she wanted without fighting.
Nick had always been in charge of his own destiny and after the newness of being a vamp and the horrors of the crusade wore off, he realized he had a MASTER. Not acceptable to a Knight. He really is a good person and that never really wore off. He just couldn't get into the whole "fun at the expense of innocent victims" thing. I can sympathize with that. I wouldn't like the idea of playing cruel tricks on the cow that I was having for dinner. It would put me off meat if I had to actually play with my food live first.
Okay, I think I a finished spouting my opinion for now. Maybe this will bring some responses, maybe not. I had fun writing it.
Michele
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Colleen J. O'Shaughnessy
you evidently did. And I might add that your ramblings were right on in
most cases and definitely entertaining. Good job!
Now for some exchange of ideas: I think Nick just wanted to be mortal to
finally die and end his life. Period. He was the only vampire on the show
who could even remotely control his urges. Look at the people he brought
across out of his heart of goodness. The leper, Nat's brother Richard -
they were uncontrollably evil. I wish they had followed up on the blind cop
to see how she turned out because she was the only one who seemed like she
had any sort of chance of being a "good" vampire.
As far as being an in-between vamp, I think that issue has to do with the
enforcers and the possibility of disclosure. LC never liked Nick being so
close to mortals because of the discovery issue. Nick grew too
"comfortable" with his mortal friends and put the entire community at risk.
In most cases in real life, riding the fence is not an option. You're
either in or you're out. I think that being a vampire was that way for
everyone else but Nick (and Janette in the 3rd season). Which brings up an
interesting idea - what kind of vamp was Janette the 2nd time around?
Ultimately, you're right - Nick's conflictedness (is that a word?) was one
of the best story features of the show.
Speaking of being conflicted, don't you think that we, as the voyeurs, are
conflicted and that is part of the fun of the show? Sometimes we want to
see Nick become mortal so he can marry Nat and have gorgeous children. But
then, that means that the show is over unless it turns into some sort of
perverted "Father Knows Best", so we hope he never finds a cure. We want to
see LC be the loving "father" figure, but oh how we enjoy the sarcastic evil
side of him. We were excited to see Janette fall in love and have a
family, but we were delighted by the open-endedness of her having been
brought back across in the fire. Conflictedness is just plain fun, don't
you think?
Regarding the second season, I think the writing was weak in some episodes
and absolutely ridiculous during the 3rd season (the episode with the
wrestlers, for instance). There were actually quite a number of episodes
that dealt with a possible cure, even if only for a moment at the end of the
show. But, if Nick were getting close to a cure, that would have weakened
the general plot even more and taken some of that wonderful "conflictedness"
out of the show. Without a cure, the story could go on forever (in theory).
Speaking of forever, did anyone besides me think that GWD visibly aged
between the 2nd and 3rd seasons? Current pictures of him show him looking
very fit and young like the first two seasons, but in season three his hair
was different and he looked markedly older and a little, well, "bloated" or
puffy in the face. Do you think that had anything to do with makeup? In
real pictures from that year, he looked "normal". Did they use different
makeup artists that season? Any opinions?
Getting back to LC, I am not so sure he always had Nick's best interests at
heart because he was so unbelievably cruel at times. For instance, the
episode in which Nick played an archaeologist and his coworker "drank" the
guest expert dry while LC just laughed at Nick over the bet he had made.
What kind of father plays such a cruel trick on their child? I think that
LC was not able to control his evil urges even when it concerned his beloved
son. Sure, there were some touching moments, but most of the time LC was a
cold, cruel beast toward Nick. Even so, Nick loved him and remained
fiercely loyal (as in "Night in Question" when he pulled the stake out of LC
or when he helped put an end to Divia). Other observations?
How about "Last Night"? Did LC stake Nick or did he turn back to the evil
side and throw the stake down at the last minute? Did he take pity on Nick
and bring Nat across? Where did Janette end up? Did the 3 (or 4 if he
brought Nat across) go to a different city or did they stay there and deal
with the mess at the precinct? Here's your chance to suggest plots for some
fanfiction!
Anyone want to get started on Tracy? Was she ditzy because of the way the
stories were written or because of the way the character was played by Lisa
Ryder? (Not at all to say that Lisa was a bad actress, but was she the
wrong actress for the part?)
Nonetheless, FK remains my absolute favorite show of all time. I really
enjoy all of the characters (except maybe for Tracy because she was so
incredibly ditzy) and would love to see at least a TV movie sequel and a
bunch more books.
Anyone else want to throw some controversy into the arena? I dare you.
So there! See - some of us pay attention!!!
Michele
snip
> Now for some exchange of ideas: I think Nick just
> wanted to be mortal to
> finally die and end his life. Period. He was the
> only vampire on the show
> who could even remotely control his urges.
I've got to disagree here if your talking about more than just drinking human blood. ALL the vampires had to control themselves. They all drank blood from bottles. None of them could go hunting mortals to kill. Sure, they could take a little drink, but the Enforcers nor LC wanted a lot of dead bodies drained of blood with puncture marks in their necks showing up. People were no longer willing to believe it was a vampire and just leave it alone. The police would be after a murderer, not a vampire and they wouldn't give up quickly. The police investigation would have at least made life uncomfortable for the community. Nat would cover it up when she could, but the day shift coroner wasn't in on it. The times when bodies did turn up as vampire victims, Nick of LC took care of it.
Nick was the only one who chose not to drink HUMAN blood (mostly). Vachon never hunted (at least that we saw), neither did Jeanette or LC (again, that we saw).
snip
> As far as being an in-between vamp, I think that issue
> has to do with the
> enforcers and the possibility of disclosure. LC never
> liked Nick being so
> close to mortals because of the discovery issue.
I didn't really mean that Nick would reveal himself to all his mortal friends. I just meant that Nick could have lived like all the other vamps evidently do. Continues to drink human blood out of a bottle. A few sips from the original container now and then, but no killing. He can have a job (or not). Doesn't have to play sick games with people, stalk, terrorize or otherwise anybody. He doesn't have to be LC's idea of a vampire. I don't think the Enforcers of LC would mind any of that as long as Nick wasn't telling everybody what he was and he stopped playing at looking for a cure.
> Nick grew too
> "comfortable" with his mortal friends and put the
> entire community at risk.
I can agree with that mostly. I think he was sometimes foolish in his choices of who to reveal himself to. But I think that if he was not looking for a cure, he would not reveal himself as a vamp so often.
snip
> Speaking of being conflicted, don't you think that we,
> as the voyeurs, are
> conflicted and that is part of the fun of the show?
Yes, I think so, too.
> Sometimes we want to
> see Nick become mortal so he can marry Nat and have
> gorgeous children.
Ewww, I would never wish that on anybody....
snip
> Speaking of forever, did anyone besides me think that
> GWD visibly aged
> between the 2nd and 3rd seasons? Current pictures of
> him show him looking
> very fit and young like the first two seasons, but in
> season three his hair
> was different and he looked markedly older and a
> little, well, "bloated" or
> puffy in the face. Do you think that had anything to
> do with makeup? In
> real pictures from that year, he looked "normal". Did
> they use different
> makeup artists that season? Any opinions?
I did notice he looked different, not sure why. He seemed to be wearing a different style of clothes. Maybe that was it.
> Getting back to LC, I am not so sure he always had
> Nick's best interests at
> heart because he was so unbelievably cruel at times.
> For instance, the
> episode in which Nick played an archaeologist and his
> coworker "drank" the
> guest expert dry while LC just laughed at Nick over
> the bet he had made.
> What kind of father plays such a cruel trick on their
> child?
I thought LC was using this as an example to Nick how gullible he is and how useless it is to look for somethig that does not exist. LC went about it very cruelly, but I do think he was trying to snap Nick out of it. Most shocking things LC does seem to have this same purpose, at least IMO.
snip
> How about "Last Night"?
Never happened. They are all living happily in Paris. (I'm not in denial or anything.....)
I liked talking to you, keep it coming.....
Colleen J. O'Shaughnessy
"Nick was the only one who chose not to drink HUMAN blood (mostly). Vachon
never hunted (at least that we saw), neither did Jeanette or LC (again, that
we saw)."
OK, I agree with what you said to that point - in theory. There is no way
they could all feed openly and leave bodies laying everywhere, but where did
they get all of that "bottled" human blood from? Maybe I'm just plain dumb
about such things, but I never got the impression that they had all stopped
feeding - especially LC. I think he enjoyed the hunt too much. Vachon gave
me the impression that he was kind of like Nick and only fed to survive. I
would believe that he was strictly bottle-fed. Janette seemed to go both
ways, like in the episode with the vampire novelist. She would have loved
to have drained her! I don't exactly know what I thought they did for
nourishment, but I never assumed it was all bottled blood, either. Can you
help me on this?
You said:
"I don't think the Enforcers of LC would mind any of that as long as Nick
wasn't telling everybody what he was and he stopped playing at looking for a
cure."
Interesting point. I always thought the enforcers were extremely strict and
basically evil-minded, blood-thirsty ghouls. In fact, I never understood
why they didn't come after Nat. Maybe they became less strict over the
years as a means of survival. Perhaps the more civilized world with its
inhabitants living on top of each other in big cities necessitated a
different approach. What do you think?
Regarding marriage and children, I take it that that is not your particular
desire in life. I still think little Nick-Nats would have been fun. Would
they have been vamps or mortals? Did we ever decide for sure what the
consequences of a spur of the moment sexual encounter between a vamp & a
mortal would result in? All sorts of hints and theories were thrown around,
but nothing conclusive was ever pitched. Evidently Janette became mortal
because of a long, slow process. What do you think would have happened if
Nick & Nat threw myth & caution to the wind and went at it? By the way,
why can't vamps procreate? I must have missed that episode?
And, along those same lines, if a vamp's heart doesn't beat then why did LC
bleed when he cut his wrist to feed Nick when he was hospitalized after
getting shot in the head? How come vamps have blood in their veins at all
and why doesn't it just clot into Jell-O since their hearts don't beat?
Have I discovered another story flaw?
You're right about Nick's clothes being different in the third season - they
were all black (he had worn light colors before) and his collars were never
open anymore (he wore his shirts buttoned or he wore turtlenecks). I still
think there was a difference in his face, though. Like I said, pictures of
GWD looked normal, only Nick looked different to me. When the 3rd season
comes around again, take a look and let me know.
You said:
"LC went about it very cruelly, but I do think he was trying to snap Nick
out of it. Most shocking things LC does seem to have this same purpose, at
least IMO."
Well, maybe. I guess I have such a hard time with the cruelty. I think
there are better ways of teaching lessons than to resort to cruel, hurtful,
dirty tricks. I don't think LC was motivated by love for his creation as
much as he was by his blatant feelings of superiority and his feeling that
Nick was pitifully stupid in his search for a cure. It strikes me like a
parent who holds his child's hand on a hot stove to teach them that they can
be burned.
Paris? Sounds good to me!!!!
OK, what about Tracy and the 3rd season story lines? That ought to be good
for a number of exchanges!
Thanks for your insights - you've definitely done your homework!
Lois Frankel
season. There were at least two years between the second and third
seasons, I think, so they were in fact a bit older and had a chance to
gain some weight.
--
Lois Frankel http://pluto.njcc.com/~lfrankel
lfra...@pluto.njcc.com (pix of cats, quilts, and antique sewing machines)
Any ideas you might think you find in this message are mine; any resemblance
to ideas of anyone else--real, imaginary, living, dead, employer, coworker,
friend, enemy, neighbor, spouse, pet, family member, insect, microorganism,
government, organization, extraterrestrial, or potted plant--is your fault!
sah
wrote:
>Both GWD and Catherine Discher looked older and heaver in the 3rd
>season. There were at least two years between the second and third
>seasons, I think, so they were in fact a bit older and had a chance to
>gain some weight.
Actually, there were 18 months between the first and second season,
during which time Catherine Disher had a baby. Only a few months
passed between finishing second season and starting third season. I
thought Ger looked a little heavy during the first part of second
season, but slimmed down pretty quickly. Ger, Catherine and Nigel
just looked exhausted to me during most of third season.
--sah
romana at mindspring dot com
"Boys are so fragile." --Willow, BtVS.
NOTE: Remove DELETE from my email address when responding.
sah
<col...@prodigy.net> wrote:
>Regarding marriage and children, I take it that that is not your particular
>desire in life. I still think little Nick-Nats would have been fun.
Another interesting issue is the fact that the series gives us no
hints about Nat's goals in that respect. It's clear she wants a
relationship with Nick, but beyond that we don't know if Nat wants
children or not. Some women don't, and Natalie certainly never
expressed any great desire to have them. Nick, on occasion, expressed
an interest in having a family, but as far as I can recall, Natalie
never really did.
I do agree with whoever said Nick's quest for mortality was really a
quest to die. IMO one of the reasons LaCroix seemed to desperate to
stop him is that he (perhaps correctly) sensed Nick's endeavor was
fundamentally and subconsciously suicidal. And I agree that after
first season Nick just gave lip service to wanting to be mortal, but
he'd stopped sincerely pursuing it. Don't get me wrong. If Nat
showed up with a potion that would make him mortal with no fuss and no
mess, he'd do it, but I doubt he'd work hard if it was something that
required time, effort and discipline.
Colleen J. O'Shaughnessy
older. I wonder if the shooting schedule was different the 3rd season?
How come nobody wants to tackle Tracy and the 3rd season writing? Have I
hit on something sacred?
Michele
I haven't watched the eps with any consistancy since they put them on during the day (while I'm at work). I never have figured out how to get the new VCR to tape what I want. One day it will tape FK, the next day everthing is set the same way, and I get a tape with CNN or something. I think we have too many things hooked together ( or I've become electronically disabled ). I didn't used to have that problem.
I have to agree that the ep with the wrestlers was pretty lame except for the part about the serum made from Nicks blood. I kinda like wrestling sometimes, but the way it was presented in the ep was very silly.
I don't mind LC's cruelty, it's actually what I like about him. As I said, I would not like this if he was a real person ( or real vampire ), he's way too scary to actually be around, but since it is fiction, I can enjoy the devious workings of his mind from the safety of my home. I am sometimes a romantic, just not where Nat is concerned.
I always wanted Nick to date, he seemed lonely. It could have been a real big problem though. With Nick, "I'd like to take you out for a bite to eat" could get literal if he lost control.
I always wanted Tracy and Vachon to finally get together. I kind of thought that was were they were heading until he died. It would have been another good conflict if they had gotten together. Can you imagine the possibilities if Vachon and Tracy could do the deed without Tracy being killed and Nat finding out? She would be bugging Nick about it all the time. "Well, if they can do it, why can't we? Quit being a scardy pants and go ask Vachon how he does it. What do you mean you've known all along how this could be done? Why didn't you tell me? You are just using me for the cure, you don't really love me." etc.... I know this has been explored in fanfic as well as other very interesting possiblilites. Nick would not be happy with the Tracy/Vachon thing either. He seemed very protective of her. I don't know if it was because she was his partner, she was mortal, she was a woman or because she was blonde, but he didn't like Vachon messing with her. I guess it's only okay for him to have mortal friends.
I always liked Vachon. I haven't talked about him much, but I did like him. He was a free spirit kind of guy. Nick was always on him to take more responsibility, follow the rules, etc. But I think Nick was kind of envious that Vachon did not have a Master. But isn't that the situation that Nick wanted ( besides the being mortal thing )? He wanted to be left alone, didn't want to follow the rules, didn't want to be involved in the vampire community etc.. Yet he was always lecturing Vachon the same way LC lectures Nick. Nick was just full of contridictions.
Urs was another Nick, just more sure of what she wanted. She wanted to die. Well, actually, she must not have wanted to die too badly since she was still around until darling Divia came to town. Again, contridictions everywhere.
I loved this show and I think the acting abilities of all the actors were very good ( even if their characters were annoying ). FK was supposed to be about a vampire wanting to be mortal. As if being a mortal was better than being a vampire. I think it turned out to be about much more than that. There were the obvious morality messages that were relayed, but as you can see from this and other discussions, different people got different things from it. If a show can create a discussion that goes beyond just the confines and plot of the show, it's a pretty good show. FK made me think about how people relate to each other, how one persons values are not everyone's values, how you can LOVE someone even though you don't always LIKE them, how the right thing to do is not always the best thing to do, stuff like that.
I really would, just once, like to see a show about vampires that actually LIKE being vampires, no whining and thinking they are evil or wanting to not be a vampire. How they fit in with society and deal with everyday problems.
I think FK could have been that show. Nick is a cop, fine. He can be a cop because he wants to, not because he has some debt to society. He can like being a vampire, still have fights with LC about various things, still have Nat discover his "secret", they can be friends instead of her looking for a cure and nagging him all the time. LC can still be a cruel, scheming father. Just let them enjoy themselves. It would be interesting to see flashbacks of the time when technology was changing quickly and how the older vamps dealt with it. There are hundreds of possibilities for a good show that do not involve whining or mortality seeking.
But since we are all supposed to agree that being a vampire would be a bad thing, it will probably be awhile
( or never ) before happy, non-evil vampires make it to TV.
Well, it's very late, I must go to bed. This is a lot of fun.
Michele
As always, this is just my opinion and is not meant to insult anyone or put down their opinions.
Michele
container blood.
Well, I always got the
impression that the blood came
from various places. Since it
was all so nicely bottled with
labels and mixed with a little
wine, I assumed that there was
a vamp "vinyard" or factory
somewhere. Merlin was the
computer guy, Nick is a copy,
LC is a DJ, Jeanette a club
owner, Vachon was somethimes
in a band so maybe there are
certain vamps that handle the
collection of blood from blood
banks or hospitals (like maybe
the blood that is rejected
because of disease) and send
it to the factory to add the
anti-coagulents and wine,
bottle it and ship it off. I
also assumed that since LC had
"special vintage" that this
was, perhaps, some he
collected on his own, probably
without the cooperation of the
donor. Since Nick was the only
one who drank cow blood, I
more often wondered where he
got his. Did he go out to the
stockyards himself? Or maybe
there is a factory that
specializes in animal blood
for vamps like Screed.
As to the vamps feeding only
from the bottle. No, I don't
think they all ONLY drank the
bottled stuff, just mostly. I
am sure the hunt and the lure
of live blood would be too
much for all of them to give
up totally. I just think that
most (and there were other
vamps in town besides the main
characters) were careful to
only hunt occasionally, make
sure the prey was not a
resistor, take only a little,
whammy them, and that was it.
No killing. LC probably hunted
all the time just for fun but
he obviously was not hunting
to kill.
RE: The Enforcers.
I don't think the Enforcers
had bent their rules much over
the years. They did come after
that TV reporter woman for the
same reason they went after
the photographer during the
Civil War. Empirical proof.
Not just someones word that
there are vampires. Most
people would not believe it if
someone was running around
saying they saw a vampire. No
one believed that woman on the
"Jerry Show", even though she
really didn't know a vamp.
Pictures are another thing.
Also, I got the feeling that
the Enforcers didn't know the
extent of Nat's involvement
with Nick. I think if they
knew of all her tests (drawing
blood, skin cells, etc) they
would have a cow, fly in, snap
her neck and leave. The blood
and skin samples were as bad
as a picture. It was absolute
proof of vampires. Her (and
later Tracy) just knowing of
vamps was a threat, but a
threat that was not as
serious. I assumed that they
would expect LC to take care
of it/monitor it.
I don't think the Enforcers
were completly mindless, just
doing their job of protecting
vampire kind. Probably not big
conversationalists and kind of
a bore at parties, but not
completely mindless.
RE: Nick and Nat procreating.
I think the show was following
the premise that vampires were
basically dead. They didn't
really have body functions.
They sweat blood not sweat,
they had very low body temp.,
their hearts beat only once
every ten min. or so, they
didn't have to breath if they
didn't want to. So, no body
fluids, no babies.
IMO, the whole thing with
Jeanette was mind over matter.
She fell in love with a mortal
(I thought for the first time)
and wanted to be mortal so
much, she thought herself into
it. Like that chick with the
split human/vamp personality
and when Nick was shot in the
head and didn't remember he
was a vamp.
I think other than Nick, most
of the vamps had sex with
mortals all the time. The only
consequence was good sex and
the mortal missing a little
blood. Nick used to have sex
with mortals without killing
them (as per the flashbacks).
It's just been since he
started on his quest for
mortality and drinking cow
blood, making himself half
starved and weaker, that he
has had this control problem.
He did intentionally kill some
of his sex partners before his
morality resurfaced.
As for Nick and Nat marrying
and having children... your
right, that is not my goal in
life but I was referring them
in particular. I can not
imagine Nat as a mom. And with
Nick as the dad... whine fest.
If you are old enough, you may
remember a sketch on Saturday
Night Live in the late 70's.
There was a family called the
Whiners. They all whined when
they talked. It was very
irritating, funny, but
irritating. That's what I
think that family would have
turned out like. Both keep
whining all through the show
about what they can't have.
Don't get me wrong, I love the
show, the whining just became
a bit much at times.
RE: blood in veins and heart
beats.
In the ep where Nick brings
Nats brother Richard across,
Nick says that vamps hearts
beat about every ten minutes.
I assume that something (Nat
thinks a virus) is in the
blood which in turn animates
the body. I guess, the blood
they drink goes into the
stomach and is absorbed
through the walls of the
stomach into the veins, etc.
The heart beats every ten
minutes to move it around,
otherwise, like other corpses,
it would all pool at the
lowest point in the body (feet
and legs if standing, back if
lying down etc.) As to why it
doesn't clot...I would have to
guess the virus thing again.
Even though LC heart beats
only once every ten minutes,
there is some pressure in the
veins and when he opened up
his arm to feed Nick, some
would come out. Since vamps
heal real fast, he should have
had to keep reopening the
wound.
RE: LC always being cruel to
the one he supposedly loves.
Well, we always have to
remember that LC and Nick are
very different people from
very different times. LC came
from a time when showing any
kindness was a weakness. He
was a great general known for
his ruthlessness and cruelty.
He was cruel to the mother of
his child. He tried to take
the mother aside and "tried"
to show concern for his
daughter who had been ill but
as soon as someone came near
enought to hear the
conversation, he became "the
General" again. Even when he
was trying to be polite it
came out pretty rude. I don't
think he knows another way to
show his care and concern. I
think if LC didn't really
care, he wouldn't bother with
Nick at all. He would let Nick
do something that would get
him in trouble with the
Enforcers. I think when it
really counted, LC did show
Nick his love. LC helped Nick
whenever Nick asked. Nick
helped LC whenever LC asked.
By today's standards, we find
it horrible for him to treat
his "child" this way, but it
was not unusual in the time he
was from. Fathers could beat
their children to death, sell
them into slavery, force them
to work anywhere they wanted
for as long as they wanted,
make them marry or keep them
from marrying and it was their
right to do so. Fathers had
absolute power over the lives
and deaths of their wives and
children. I never thought LC
was stupid or dense, so I was
always a little frustrated
that he never learned over the
centuries to modify this
particular part of his
behaviour. I think he
certainly would have gotten
farther with Nick if he had
choosen another way to deal
with him. On the other hand,
if he had become more warm and
fuzzy towards Nick, the other
vamps in the community would
not have respected him very
much and would no longer fear
him. IMO, it was a behaviour
that he kind of got trapped
in. If he kept it up, he was
being cruel, if he stopped and
became more kind, he would be
seen as weak. No way to win. I
also think Nick and LC had
been going at this for so
long, neither wanted to be the
first to give in and admit
they were wrong. Kind of
silly, but we humans often end
up doing the same thing.
Nick was a warrior even if he
didn't like it much. But in
his time, he was supposedly
fighting for the cause of God
and chivalry (although I'm
sure nobody minded the money).
It was expected that you kill
people, but you had to do it
according to rules and for the
right reasons. Although, if
the history books are correct,
this was more a theory than a
practice. Nick was sickened by
the cruelty he had seen on the
Crusades. I think he was
suicidal when he decided to
join Jeanette and LC. IMO, he
thought he should be damned
for the things he had to do
and things he saw, he was sick
to his soul, so he might as
well make it come true and
become a souless creature of
evil.
IMO, there were better ways LC
could have convinced Nick to
give up his quest, he just
didn't know how. I do think LC
thought himself superior, he
was Nicks "Master", he had
been the most celebrated
general in Rome and has
survived a long time and not
gone insane. LC definitely
does not have a small ego.
IMO, he does love Nick, he
does think Nick is being
stupid in his search for a
cure and he is probably very
insulted that Nick wants to
throw away what LC thinks is a
great life. IMO, LC is afraid
to loose Nick. Even thought
they fight now, it wasn't
always that way. They had a
very good time together for a
long time. Nick is a huge part
of LC's life. They have been
together for 800 years. I
don't think LC is as afraid of
Jeanette leaving because she
always comes back after
awhile.
I was always suprised that
Jeanette was not jelous of
Nick. She was with LC first,
she wanted Nick for herself
(and got him for awhile) and
LC spends all his time and
energy on Nick.
LC is one of my guilty
pleasures. I would not like it
if a real human acted the way
he did, but as a fictional
supernatural creature, I just
love him. I like Nick too.
Often, after watching an ep, I
would compose in my mind the
perfect thing to say to him in
order to make him give up his
search for mortality. I would
usually not get far because in
the backround LC would be
there chuckling and mummbling
"tried that... tried that
too.... told him that
already... that didn't work
for me...." Well, I tried. ;.)
Okay, I think I'm finished
now.
Or I might not be. Can you
tell I like FK?
Michele<please remember, this
is all my opinion and I do not
intend anything said to be
anything other than my
opinion>
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Share what you know. Learn what you don't.
Nancy Kaminski
news:oMc43wri/ZVA0...@pluto.njcc.com...
> Both GWD and Catherine Discher looked older and heaver in the 3rd
> season. There were at least two years between the second and third
> seasons, I think, so they were in fact a bit older and had a chance to
> gain some weight.
Catherine Disher had a baby during that time, and gained weight during her
pregnancy. And Ger had moved his family to Santa Barbara, and between
commuting back and forth between Santa Barbara and Toronto, and living (so I
heard) on junk food, he got a bit, shall we say, chunky and tired looking.
And yes, they both got older. Alas, even imaginary vampires must age!
Nancy Kaminski
Colleen J. O'Shaughnessy
everything you said. I guess you can tell that I affiliate myself with Nick
first, then Nick & Nat together second. I am fascinated by LC, but the
cruelty thing bothers me. Schanke was really irritating, but was good for
Nick to play off of. Tracy just seemed too dumb to be a cop, period. I
guess the nepotism thing explains it, though.
So, let's go a slightly different direction. What were your most favorite
and least favorite episodes and why?
My most favorite episode was the one where Nick got shot in the head. I'm
such a romantic... The thought of Nick and Nat being together - even for a
time - was appealing to me. I also liked the tender rolls portrayed between
Nick and LC. (The scene where he unstaked LC was great!) I did, however,
think the Internal Affairs guys were way over the top (like the old Dragnet
series) and the part of the show where Tracy dumbly walked into a trap was
disappointing to say the least. I loved the way the show ended with Nick
spending the day with LC catching up. It had a rare, "warm fuzzy" feel to
it. (Did I tell you I was a romantic?)
My least favorite episode is the one with the wrestlers, although there were
parts of the story line that were really excellent and could have been
written into a better story. For instance, the serum made from Nick's blood
to help improve the intelligence of the handicapped boy was an excellent
story line. Why they mixed it with wrestling is beyond me. Why not just
have him be a key witness in a murder after a hockey game? They still could
have used the steroid thing and we wouldn't have had to suffer through all
the corny junk with the wrestling commercial, etc. I'm not one of those
people who is so caught up in the show that I believe vamps are real, but
the wrestling thing was way to unreal for even me!
I also really liked the episode where Nat gives Nick the drug that let's him
go out into the sunlight. GWD is a wonderful comedic actor and that episode
was really funny, yet intense (when his "fix" was wearing off). Actually,
the only reason I think the show had any sort of following at all was the
incredible acting of GWD and NB. When you consider Nat's whining, Schanke's
ego, Tracy's stupidity and some of the really far-fetched story lines, about
the only thing going for the show was incredible acting. By the way, FK is
one of my mother's favorite shows, too and she is very critical of "stupid"
or unbelievable shows.
What do you think?
quinn
> > Both GWD and Catherine Discher looked older and heaver in the 3rd
> > season. There were at least two years between the second and third
> > seasons, I think, so they were in fact a bit older and had a chance to
> > gain some weight.
>
> Catherine Disher had a baby during that time, and gained weight during her
> pregnancy. And Ger had moved his family to Santa Barbara, and between
> commuting back and forth between Santa Barbara and Toronto, and living (so I
> heard) on junk food, he got a bit, shall we say, chunky and tired looking.
>
> And yes, they both got older. Alas, even imaginary vampires must age!
>
> during which time Catherine Disher had a baby. Only a few months
> passed between finishing second season and starting third season.
> just looked exhausted to me during most of third season.
>
Yes, the shooting schedule was radically compressed. FK was cancelled
just before Christmas
and no more episodes were going to be filmed. A bargain was made to
allow the series to end but major cutbacks and compromises had to be
made. Shooting schedules were compressed to film an episode in 4 days
rather than the 7+ that was usual. The cast and crew were exhausted by
the pace.
Ger, who had just moved his family to California before the holidays,
was on the set every day (actually, he was on the set all but about 3
days during the entire 3 years).
Ger is one of those actors who will gain and lose weight as needed for a
role and let his appearance reflect Nick's emotional state. [Black
Harbour viewers will remember the change in Nick Haskell's appearance at
the start of the second season. Ger felt that that Nick would have "let
himself go" while away from his family so he returned slightly heavier
and with longer hair.]
And FK & Seven Degrees of Kevin Bacon?
All the cast to Nigel Bennett, NB to Brad Pitt (Legends of the Fall), BP
to Kevin Bacon (Sleepers).
----------------
Quinn
GWDFC officer
qu...@gwdfc.org
GWD Fan Club page--> http://www.gwdfc.org/
MadiHolmes
>cop than Tracy... )
>
Hey, Schank figured it out. Most of it, anyway. Nick, Uncle, Janette. He even
confronted Uncle by himself about their vampirism. He got over his own
preconceptions, judgements, and saw the through the "clews", and pieced
together everything.
Of course, he got whammied for it.
BUT that's better than Tracy, who actually knew about vampires, but fell for
that "Vachon whammying Nick" hook, line, and sinker. Yes, I'd believe Vachon
and Nick for oh... about the first month, but then I'd start getting suspicious
by the second bullet hole with no blood.
Schanke, while full of faults, was still sweet. He stood by his family and his
partner through thick and thin. Though he dind't understand Nick's problem, he
did try to help and support to the best of his ability.
I wonder what would have happened in NiQ if Schanke had still been his partner.
He probably would never have left his partner's sight (up until Nat would shoo
him out so that Uncle could help)
sHolmes
Anne Gargac
It was always my impression that LaCroix didn't have to whammy him for it.
He danced around questions by making Schanke answer them for himself.
Schanke convinced himself that Nick wasn't a vampire.
That has always been one of my favorite scenes, and most certainly one of
the best LaCroix scenes. I have to watch that part two or three times every
time I play that episode (particularly the face Uncle makes at the mention
of cow blood!).
Forever is Forever--
Anne
Shomeret
with kids. Not only am I not a NatPacker, but I adore Janette. I think that
Nick's feelings for Janette are very intense and went well beyond the sisterly.
I like to see Nick and Janette together, though I realize that an exclusive
eternal relationship between two vamps would probably never work out. A
relationship where they drift in and out of each other's lives every few
decades or centuries like Duncan and Amanda on Highlander is very appealing to
me.
Shomeret
Michele
would come over a give her a very unsisterly kiss. He
looked at her like he wanted to ravish her right there.
After the initial greeting, he then seemed very comfortable
with her. Not sisterly at all.
I often felt a little sorry for Janette. She often seemed
to be ignored in the scheme of things. Nick and LC were so
involved in their war, they often forget about Jeanette. I
suppose Jeanette is just a more patient vamp than Nick and
LC. She did keep telling LC to leave Nick alone and Nick
would eventually come back to them on his own, so maybe she
did understand Nick a little better than LC.
I also thought the relationship situation between Nick and
Jeanette was similar to the Duncan/Amanda thing. Together,
apart, together, apart, over the centuries. In modern
times, at least, Nick kept coming to Jeanette for help when
*he* needed it, he would come to her when he needed a
little "comforting", but not for anything more. Must have
been frustrating for her. (again with the similarites
between Nick/Jeanette and Duncan/Amanda) I guess Jeanette
knew that eventually Nick would come back to her once his
current quest was over.
I always wondered why Jeanette wasn't more upset about all
the time and energy LC put in with Nick. She was there
first, she had LC attention for a couple hundred years
before Nick, *she's* the one who wanted Nick in the first
place. I occasionally wonder if Jeanette wanting Nick for
herself was a manipulation by LC in the first place. LC
didn't seem opposed to bringing Nick across. Okay, he was
doing it for Jeanette, but LC doesn't do anything he
doesn't really want to do. I wonder if LC didn't want Nick
but didn't want to make Jeanette upset, so he somehow made
Jeanette think it was *her* idea.
My biggest reason for not wanting Nick and Nat to marry and
live happily ever after (other than disliking Nat) is that
I don't see anything really great about being mortal (in
the context of the FK universe) in the first place. I
suppose we wouldn't have a show then, though.
Okay, enough ramblings.
Michele