Jane Doe--Spoilers
Lisa Burstiner
Spoilers ahead!
I'm probably going to get a lot of backlash for this, but I must say that
this was not one of the best episodes of this season. Yes, the subject
matter was very intense, and the writers handled a very touchy subject
well, but I just have one question: Where was Nick!? It was like he had
a supporting role in the show and it should have been called the Captain
Reese show.
One thing I did like was Natalie keeping her cool during the autopsy as
usual, and Nick being the rational voice while Reese flew off the handle
(justifiably so, in his case). And the flashbacks with LaCroix were good,
except I find it hard to believe that LaCroix would be intimidated by
anyone, and if he sensed something wrong about Hitler, than he would have
killed him just to be rid of him. And why did he keep that picture so
long?
I'm just disappointed because with only three more episodes to go, I want
to see nothing but Nick, Nat, and LaCroix.
LB
GES53
Finally, a new episode! Spoilers ahead:
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Lisa Burstiner said:
<I'm probably going to get a lot of backlash for this, but I must say
that this was not one of the best episodes of this season. Yes,
the subject matter was very intense, and the writers handled a very
touchy subject well, but I just have one question: Where was Nick!?
It was like he had a supporting role in the show and it should have
been called the Captain Reese show.>
<One thing I did like was Natalie keeping her cool during the autopsy
as usual, and Nick being the rational voice while Reese flew off the
handle (justifiably so, in his case). And the flashbacks with LaCroix
were good, except I find it hard to believe that LaCroix would be
intimidated by anyone, and if he sensed something wrong about
Hitler, than he would have killed him just to be rid of him. And why
did he keep that picture so long?>
Well, Lisa, you're certainly not going to get any "backlash" from me!
I agree with your evaluation of this eps. Seeing so little of Nick (and
in such a secondary part) was extremely frustrating -- especially as
the show is nearing its end. I almost felt cheated.
I was also bothered by the fact that while guest actors on FK are
usually excellent (or at least more than adequate), I thought the
man who played young Hitler was rather weak. He didn't seem
to radiate any of the charismatic and consummate evil that was
essential to the role. I think that one of the reasons that LaCroix
**wouldn't** have been intimidated by him was this lack of depth
and missing aura. In that final flashback scene, LaCroix's motivation
for holding back seemed almost groundless.
In addition, I definately agree that if LaCroix truely "sensed" something,
he would have killed him -- as he asked Nick to do for him in Bad Blood
(the one with the insane "barber" -- am I getting the eps. title right?).
With such excellent writers, and such a powerful story, I would have
expected more. Great ideas but lacking in execution, IMHO.
BTW, one last comment, as usual, it is definately satisfying
to see Natalie exhibiting such strength and professionalism.
Eric Stevenson
Lisa Burstiner (FNZ...@prodigy.com) wrote:
: Spoilers ahead!
: I'm probably going to get a lot of backlash for this, but I must say that
: this was not one of the best episodes of this season. Yes, the subject
: matter was very intense, and the writers handled a very touchy subject
: well, but I just have one question: Where was Nick!? It was like he had
: a supporting role in the show and it should have been called the Captain
: Reese show.
I was annoyed more by the very "cop" orientation of the episode. If I
wanted to watch a cop show, I'd watch NYPD Blue. There was hardly even
any vampire stuff in the flashbacks.
: One thing I did like was Natalie keeping her cool during the autopsy as
: usual, and Nick being the rational voice while Reese flew off the handle
: (justifiably so, in his case). And the flashbacks with LaCroix were good,
: except I find it hard to believe that LaCroix would be intimidated by
: anyone, and if he sensed something wrong about Hitler, than he would have
: killed him just to be rid of him. And why did he keep that picture so
: long?
I figured with that bit about something vile, he didn't want to have
anything to do with the corporal, not even feeding on him. And as for
being rid of him, why bother? LaCroix doesn't have to be around anyone he
doesn't want to.
Keeping the picture might have been simple nostalgia, or perhaps LaCroix
liked having a reminder of a decision he made that affected history.
Kristen Templet
Eric Stevenson (es...@rocket.cc.umr.edu) wrote:
: : I'm probably going to get a lot of backlash for this, but I must say that
: : this was not one of the best episodes of this season. Yes, the subject
I won't backlash you. I think it was an excellent ep., but I did notice
the distinct lack of Nick.
: : One thing I did like was Natalie keeping her cool during the autopsy as
: : usual,
Nat was just awesome, but then I think just about anything she does
except let Nick get away with murder is neat. Does this make me a
NatPacker? I think she's just plain cool. But she certainly needs to beat
some sense into Nick, and teach hime the proper way to treat a lady.
: Keeping the picture might have been simple nostalgia, or perhaps LaCroix
: liked having a reminder of a decision he made that affected history.
When he made the decision, he had no clue it would affect history. It
would be a long time before A. Hitler would make his mark. There was no
reason her him to keep the pic that long and then burn it at the end of
"Jane Doe."
Starfox
Always with Honor
William R. Thompson
>I was also bothered by the fact that while guest actors on FK are
>rather weak. He didn't seem to radiate any of the charismatic and
>consummate evil that was essential to the role. I think that one of
>the reasons that LaCroix **wouldn't** have been intimidated by him
>was this lack of depth and missing aura. In that final flashback
>scene, LaCroix's motivation for holding back seemed almost groundless.
I know this NG isn't alt.psychotic.bastards, but I studied Hitler while
working on my history MA, so I feel compelled to comment.
Hitler wasn't always charismatic, even when playing the Fuhrer role.
He could be annoying, uncertain, vulgar, rude and boring. Put him in
front of a crowd and he could be brilliantly manipulative, but he could
be amazingly inept in a one-on-one social situation. He didn't seem
evil to most of the people who met him. We know what he was, of
course--but he wouldn't have gone as far as he did if everyone around
him had sensed his monstrosity. Remember Hannah Arendt's comment about
Eichmann and the "banality of evil?" This is what she meant; the
monsters have nothing special to make them stand out. It seems that
every time a serial killer is arrested, there's always somebody who
says "he seemed like such a nice guy . . . you'd never have thought he
could do that . . . "
Nick took an instant dislike to Hitler, and LaCroix sensed his evil at
the end. Of course they've had centuries of experience at dealing with
evil, so they're better equipped to recognize it than we are. And the
actor who played Hitler did give a sense of the madness inside Hitler
in his final close-up. Other than that, the restraint he showed worked
well for me. This is an election year (if you're reading this in the
States), so watch our politicians between now and November, and ask
yourself how many of them match the image they project.
--Bill Thompson
T&N Dbretsion
Just adding some chat to Lisa Burstiner's and "ge...@aol.com (GES53)"'s
(who IS that?) comments:
>Finally, a new episode! Spoilers ahead:
>
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THE JOE REESE SHOW: I personally didn't mind the captain having an
episode (written by the story editor, I believe). Hey, the series is
ending; they owed Blu one (what'll you bet it was in his contract?).
After being introduced as a kiss-ass in the first few episodes, Reese
became more of a wise old fellow (as we would expect someone who rose to
captain to be) in FEVER (a little), AVENGING ANGEL (moreso) and in JANE
DOE (although I wonder about the admissibility of DNA evidence
obtained from a body [hair?] sample obtained by hitting the
suspect, we did see that despite his personal rage, Reese never did
anything he hadn't calculated)--kind of a male Amanda Cohen. If he'd
stayed as portrayed in those early episodes, the bigot's sneer about
"affirmative action" would have seemed justified.
THE ACTOR WHO PLAYED HITLER: The two previous posters clarified for me
what was wrong with the flashback: the actor who played Hitler wasn't
strong enough. I'm a HUGE LaCroix fan and like to think of him as having
the potential for goodness (or "God in him" as JP wrote in SONS OF
BELIAL), but I'm bothered when he seems to do an altruistic deed (or
maintain an altruistic position) based on consciously held, intellectual
principals (like his disdain for blood money in BLOOD MONEY [hedonistic
LaCroix? Come on, now] or his backing off from bringing the corporal
into the entourage in JANE DOE). His only consciously held altruistic
principal is "protect my children" (usually just Nick, but occasionally a
wider circle of vampires as in FEVER). His other oft-stated or
oft-acted-upon consciously held principals are anything but
altruistic--be true to your [predatory] nature, "I don't deceive myself"
(but of course, he does), nobody [and no concern for anyone else's
opinions] influences my actions [and I'll go out of my way to prove it as
in killing the nun Marisa in whatever that episode was last year or
making Nick's dog a vampire in BLIND FAITH], nobody [least of all,
myself] does anything except for expediency and self-interest (as voiced
in his retorts to various characters in SONS OF BELIAL), I'm bad but the
humans are worse and at least I'm not a hypocrite about it, and I pay my
debts [whether repaying good deeds or bad]. I like to see LaCroix doing
altruistic things only when his feelings overcome his intellect [as in
SONS OF BELIAL, THE NIGHT IN QUESTION and most especially BE MY
VALENTINE]. His normal actions in the JANE DOE flashback would have been
to bring the corporal across expressly because Nick didn't want him to,
just to prove that even his mere personal amusement was more important to
him than Nick's opinion [while in THE NIGHT IN QUESTION he was revealed
as, "deep inside," desperately caring about Nick's opinion of him]. If
the actor who played Hitler had been more intense, able to communicate a
real sense of smoldering evil, LaCroix judging him too vile even for
him would have been emotion overcoming intellect--and a more powerful
scene. As played, LaCroix's recoiling looked more like prudishness. [If
the actor who played Hitler or his friends or relatives read this group,
hey, what do I know?]
NATALIE'S COOL DURING THE AUTOPSY: What's the surprise? Did we expect
Nat to faint? We were supposed to be impressed that Tracy didn't faint.
TWO MINOR POINTS THAT BUGGED ME:
(1) Seven years ago Joe Reese couldn't interest anyone in his theories
about the killer because he was black? In 1989 Canada (the country that
had welcomed Blu "during the turbulent Viet Nam years" according to his
Sony page bio) a black cop got no respect? In America IMHO he would have
gotten more respect seven years ago than now (what with our present-day
mockery of common, decent, ordinary even-handedness as being "PC"). Of
course, the lack of seriousness given to serial killings of unidentified,
unmissed (i.e., powerless) people (black or white, men or women) until
sufficient numbers had been racked up--that would have been the same
seven years ago as today.
(2) LaCroix held onto his portrait-by-Hitler all those years, on this
occasion carried it in his shirt (unless we're to believe he always
carried it!), then impulsively chose to burn it up? Isn't that a bit too
much sacrifice of logical character motivation for a passing visual
effect?
*****
Nancy Debretsion
*****
Michelle Malkin
On Apr 30, 1996 21:53:56 in article <Jane Doe--Spoilers>,
'FNZ...@prodigy.com (Lisa Burstiner)' wrote:
>Spoilers ahead!
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>I'm probably going to get a lot of backlash for this, but I must say that
>this was not one of the best episodes of this season. Yes, the subject
>matter was very intense, and the writers handled a very touchy subject
>well, but I just have one question: Where was Nick!? It was like he had
>a supporting role in the show and it should have been called the Captain
>Reese show.
>
>One thing I did like was Natalie keeping her cool during the autopsy as
>usual, and Nick being the rational voice while Reese flew off the handle
>(justifiably so, in his case). And the flashbacks with LaCroix were good,
>except I find it hard to believe that LaCroix would be intimidated by
>anyone, and if he sensed something wrong about Hitler, than he would have
>killed him just to be rid of him. And why did he keep that picture so
>long?
>
>I'm just disappointed because with only three more episodes to go, I want
>to see nothing but Nick, Nat, and LaCroix.
>
>LB
>
--
Maybe LaCroix didn't kill Hitler for the same reason he didn't kill Jack
the Ripper. There are degrees of evil that are beyond his acceptance. It's
tough enough being a vampire; the possibility of that kind of evil
influencing his actions would frighten even LaCroix. Besides, if I remember
right, LaCroix said that there was something wrong with Jack's blood. Maybe
he would have had the same reaction to Hitler's blood.
Mickey
Jana 'Melanesia' Wright
> When he made the decision, he had no clue it would affect history. It
> would be a long time before A. Hitler would make his mark. There was no
> reason her him to keep the pic that long and then burn it at the end of
> "Jane Doe."
Vanity and memory are reason enough to keep the picture. The strangeness
of the encounter provided reason to remember it, and vanity simply because
it's a portrait and momento. He might have just kept it folded up in his jacket
out of habit, and reconsidered it due to the nature of recent events with Nick.
To burn it at the end of "Jane Doe" might well signify that he has had a conscious
thought about Hitler's ideals and rejected them.
There may also have been the out-of-story motive of slapping all the vampire-
wannabes who think that they are superior beings both in a moral and racial
sense. I've seen that many of them get into racist movements because the notions
of superiority attract them. If Lacroix (apparently the height of amoral self-interest)
would so obviously disdain Hitler, it might give the wannabes something new to think about.
Lisa Burstiner
T&N Dbretsion <aw...@mail.lafn.org> wrote:
>
>Just adding some chat to Lisa Burstiner's and "ge...@aol.com (GES53)"'s
>(who IS that?) comments:
>
>>Finally, a new episode! Spoilers ahead:
>>
>>S
>>
>>P
>>
>>O
>>
>>I
>>
>>L
>>
>>E
>>
>>R
>>
>>
>>
>THE JOE REESE SHOW: I personally didn't mind the captain having an
>episode (written by the story editor, I believe). Hey, the series is
>ending; they owed Blu one (what'll you bet it was in his contract?).
Ha! I never thought about that--I guess that explains the token Vachon
episodes.
I like to see LaCroix doing
>altruistic things only when his feelings overcome his intellect [as in
>SONS OF BELIAL, THE NIGHT IN QUESTION and most especially BE MY
>VALENTINE].
But were his actions in BMV altruistic? He backed off from bringing Nat
across and having Nick bring her across because he only wanted her in the
first place to get back at Nick.
[while in THE NIGHT IN QUESTION he was revealed
>as, "deep inside," desperately caring about Nick's opinion of him].
I must have missed something. I definitely think in NIQ, LaCroix came
the closest he's ever been to playing the true father to Nick, but I
didn't see where he cared about Nick's opinion of him.
>
>NATALIE'S COOL DURING THE AUTOPSY: What's the surprise? Did we expect
>Nat to faint? We were supposed to be impressed that Tracy didn't faint.
>
Although Tracy still needs to get some backbone. Sure, she still is
pretty much a rookie when it comes to homicide, but why go into homicide
if you can't stand looking at dead bodies? What I meant about Nat was
that while Reese and Nick were being led by their emotions, Nat was as
professional and logical as ever. For me, she was one of the few things
that made this episode worth watching.
LB
Kristen Templet
T&N Dbretsion (aw...@mail.lafn.org) wrote:
: Just adding some chat to Lisa Burstiner's and "ge...@aol.com (GES53)"'s
: (who IS that?) comments:
: >Finally, a new episode! Spoilers ahead:
: >
: >S
: >
: >P
: >
: >O
: >
: >I
: >
: >L
: >
: >E
: >
: >R
: >
: >
: >
: NATALIE'S COOL DURING THE AUTOPSY: What's the surprise? Did we expect
: Nat to faint? We were supposed to be impressed that Tracy didn't faint.
I didn't expect Nat to faint. Its just nice to see her while she's not
mooning after or getting jerked around by Nick. She was on her own and
cool. Yes Nick is the star and so often we only see Nat in relation to
him rather than starring in her own scenes.
: TWO MINOR POINTS THAT BUGGED ME:
: (2) LaCroix held onto his portrait-by-Hitler all those years, on this
: occasion carried it in his shirt (unless we're to believe he always
: carried it!), then impulsively chose to burn it up? Isn't that a bit too
: much sacrifice of logical character motivation for a passing visual
: effect?
Yep!
I totally don't buy that whole flashback of this episode esp. not the ending.
Mary-Sue Haliburton
> mockery of common, decent, ordinary even-handedness as being "PC")
Sorry, I don't know the expression. To what do the initials PC refer?
Lisa Burstiner
mshali...@genesis.achilles.net (Mary-Sue Haliburton) wrote:
>
>> mockery of common, decent, ordinary even-handedness as being "PC")
>
>Sorry, I don't know the expression. To what do the initials PC refer?
I'm assuming the author meant "politically correct."
LB
Ricky
In article <4m625k$8...@usenetp1.news.prodigy.com>, FNZ...@prodigy.com
wrote...
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>I'm probably going to get a lot of backlash for this, but I must say
that
>this was not one of the best episodes of this season.
Yes, I agree with this. However, the response by LeCroix when
Hitler chastised him was worth the price the admission!
Ricky