so is "Defiance" the new "Firefly"?

[Lynn McGuire]

I was watching "Defiance" with the wife and
daughter tonight and they both said it looked
familiar to them. And then we all said
"Firefly"! So is "Defiance" the new "Firefly"?

Lynn

[Barry Margolin]

In article <kktaor$iec$1...@dont-email.me>, Lynn McGuire <l...@winsim.com>
wrote:

I guess so.

I can understand why society might revert in the "Revolution" scenario,
but why would it happen after alien colonization?

--
Barry Margolin
Arlington, MA

[Lynn McGuire]

The Earth was terraformed by the aliens and then
there were massive wars. They said that St. Louis
is renamed Defiance because that is where the
soldiers on both sides refused to fight anymore.

Anyway, the terraforming was very disruptive (where
is the Mississippi river?) and many, many, many
people died with all the new plants and animals.
And wars on extremely tough on the native population.
Humans.

Lynn

[shawn]

On Sat, 20 Apr 2013 12:02:10 -0500, Lynn McGuire <l...@winsim.com>
wrote:

It wasn't a planned teraforming. Apparently someone destroyed the
alien ships which triggered an uncontrolled terraforming. So the world
isn't the way humans or aliens wanted it. The destruction of the alien
ark ships also led to the death of most of the aliens. So we are
dealing with a population of humans and aliens that has been decimated
(so to speak.)

[Lynn McGuire]

I like the fact that the aliens brought their
animals with them. Reminds me of David Gerrold's
_Chtorr stories somewhat:
http://www.amazon.com/Matter-For-Against-Chtorr-Book/dp/0553277820/

Lynn

[shawn]

On Sat, 20 Apr 2013 16:56:15 -0500, Lynn McGuire <l...@winsim.com>

Don't mention those stories to me..


I still haven't come to accept the fact that he will never finish the
books even though that clearly seems to be the case.

[Lynn McGuire]

Some day he will die and his son will find the
unpublished manuscripts and ...

Lynn

[Dragon Lady]

"Lynn McGuire" <l...@winsim.com> wrote in message
news:kkuhhk$ut1$1...@dont-email.me...

I haven't seen this show yet, but I have a question.

Why on earth would they terraform a planet that already apparently met their
needs? I mean, don't they breath the same air and eat the same foods as the
native population, and if they don't, how did the native population survive
the terraforming to wage war on them?

Also, secondly, if they terraformed the planet, what kind of process did
they use that the St. Louis arch is still standing, albeit broken?

[Ken from Chicago]

"Lynn McGuire" <l...@winsim.com> wrote in message

news:kktaor$iec$1...@dont-email.me...

It seems more like the new FARSCAPE. As good as FIREFLY was, it never had
proper aliens. Even the reavers were mutated humans. The thing that makes it
seem like FIREFLY honestly only seems to be lack of paved roads (which it
would be nice if they explained as due to some alien spore or radiation or
nanotech, or something). The rest is basically PAW, akin to THE WALKING DEAD
or MAD MAX: BEYOND THE THUNDERDOME set in one town in a wild frontier
isolated from other towns.

-- Ken from Chicago

[Ken from Chicago]

"Barry Margolin" <bar...@alum.mit.edu> wrote in message
news:barmar-251624....@news.eternal-september.org...

Look at Europe and Asia after WW1 and WW2: NAZI BOOGALOO, it was devastated
(to which the USA's "Marshall Plan" was a big boost in their restoratation).
In the world of DEFIANCE, aliens, the Votans, a group of 7 (or 8) races of
aliens, found their homeworlds going the way of Krypton and fled on
5,000-year trip, a ragtag fleet, on a lonely quest to a shining planet known
as Earth.

But surprise, after 5,000 years the fleet of Arkships arrive in Earth orbit
and discover the planet is inhabited by intelligent life. Now what? Their
homeworlds are long dead, their ships mostly depleted of resources, so after
about 15 years of negotiating with the leaders of Earth, things go
pear-shaped and shots are fired and a war breaks out for over a decade. And
then things get really bad.

Someone manages to blow up one of the Arkship and several more and they star
colliding with other Arkships in orbit and ... raining down debris and whole
ships on Earth--including the xenoforming (which the show call
"terraforming") systems, which change all of Earth in wild and unpredicted
and unintended ways than even the Votans planned.

At one point in the city of St. Louis, Illinois, a group of human and Votan
soldiers CHOSE to stop fighting in (wait for it) ... defiance ... of the
orders from the higher-ups on both sides of the conflict. Shortly after, the
war peters out because neither side have the will or wherewithall to keep
fighting.

The survivors on both sides carve out a life on the xenoformed Earth that
neither recognize. That's why the new mayor of town of Defiance (built over
the ruins of St. Louis) is heard saying "This world has no natives".

-- Ken from Chicago

[David Johnston]

Actually nobody exactly knows. The ships containing the terraforming
bombs were "mysteriously attacked" and crashed on Earth, whereupon they
went off. They may have been by design, since after all, it did make
Earth more habitable for the aliens, by wiping up most of the indigenous
population.

[Dimensional Traveler]

You are asking intelligent questions about a Syfy show? You should know
better than that. I've only watched the pilot so far and already I know
the show ain't about the terraforming or the wars, its a soap opera
about the "relationships".

--
The 'Enterprise' crew in the 2009 Star Trek are adrenaline addicted,
hyper-active teenagers with ADD whose Ritalin got replaced with
methamphetamine, displaying a level of discipline that a Somali pirate
wouldn't tolerate.

[dx...@albury.nospam.net.au]

Thanks for that description, Ken, but ..... after your first paragraph,
I was thinking "This is not so much 'Firefly' (as in this treads
Subject) but more like 'Battlestar Galactica' (either version)", but
then, when reading about us boarding their ships, I was thinking it was
sounding more like 'V' or 'Independence Day'.

Daniel

[Hunter]

-----
The "terraforming" was an accident.

Firstly the Aliens didn't know that the Earth was populated when the
aliens, collectively called the Votans got here. They were negotiating
plans for settlement with the United Nations when war broke out.

Then either a Earth supremist sabotage the ships or a faction amoung
the aliens tested a weapon and it went badly destroyed the alien fleet
and all their terraforming tech was dumped on Earth at the same time
with no planning or guidence, resulting in the haphazzard mess
including MASSIVE geological change as well as in the species of Earth
as the results of invasive alien plants and animals and insects.

None of this was planned.

>
>Also, secondly, if they terraformed the planet, what kind of process did
>they use that the St. Louis arch is still standing, albeit broken?

------
Pure chance. You see this with real life disasters. An earthquake or a
tornado or a hurricane or a bomb blast destroys a building, ripping
half of it away but somehow, amazingly, the good china are still
stacked neatly in the cubbard in the kitchen with cups still on their
hooks or the shoes still lined up in military formation in some dude's
closet even if the closet is the only thing left of that building's
floor or someother crazy one million to one odds incident.

In this case while most of Earths other cities were obliterated, the
crust of the Earth happened to fold *over* most of "Old St.
Louis"-away from the arch-covering most of the city. The arch happened
to be on ground that remained above ground and relatively undisturbed,
so it survived mostly intact and above ground.

------>Hunter

"No man in the wrong can stand up against
a fellow that's in the right and keeps on acomin'."

-----William J. McDonald
Captain, Texas Rangers from 1891 to 1907

[Hunter]

----
Excellent sumation.

[Hunter]

On Sat, 20 Apr 2013 14:10:00 -0400, shawn <nanof...@gNOTmail.com>
wrote:

-----
Exactly.

[Dragon Lady]

"Dimensional Traveler" <dtr...@sonic.net> wrote in message
news:5178aecf$0$52802$742e...@news.sonic.net...

Oh, dear boy, all the good shows include relationships. The bad ones are
about *only* SF or *only* relationships. Are you saying it's the latter?

[Ken from Chicago]

"Dani...@teranews.com" <dx...@albury.nospam.net.au> wrote in message
news:A38et.15234$sI....@newsfe20.iad...

<snip>

> Thanks for that description, Ken, but ..... after your first paragraph, I
> was thinking "This is not so much 'Firefly' (as in this treads Subject)
> but more like 'Battlestar Galactica' (either version)", but then, when
> reading about us boarding their ships, I was thinking it was sounding more
> like 'V' or 'Independence Day'.
>
> Daniel

Correct, the only resemblance to FIREFLY is superficial at best, small-town,
dirt roads and maybe the use of swinging doors on bars. Personally it
reminded me more of FARSCAPE, which isn't too much of a surprise since
DEFIANCE's creator, Rockne S. O'Bannon, also created FARSCAPE.

-- Ken from Chicago

[Dimensional Traveler]

Yes.

I also think the writers aren't even going to try to be consistent
because no one really thought the setup through all the way. Little
things like all vehicles are "rollers". Not "trucks" or "cars". When
did "police" become "lawkeeper"? Etc.

[David Johnston]

When more than half of the population became aliens.

[Jeanne Douglas]

In article <klhmeg$147$1...@dont-email.me>,

And when there's more than 30 years of backstory available for
story'telling.

--

JD

"Osama Bin Laden is dead and GM is alive."--VP Joseph Biden

[Jeanne Douglas]

In article <klghkn$10j$1...@dont-email.me>,

"Ken from Chicago" <kwicker1...@comcast.net> wrote:

Which I've been compelled to begin watching again on my Roku--7 episodes
so far just this week.

[Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy]

Dimensional Traveler <dtr...@sonic.net> wrote in

news:517c5981$0$52771$742e...@news.sonic.net:

it's on the Syphilis Channel. Duh. The only they they do right is
professional wrestling.

--
Terry Austin

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.

[Dragon Lady]

"Dimensional Traveler" <dtr...@sonic.net> wrote in message

news:517c5981$0$52771$742e...@news.sonic.net...

Seriously? How far in the future is this supposed to be, and when did they
kill off all the adults who would have used the words we use now?

[Dragon Lady]

"Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy" <taus...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:XnsA1B161C285D...@69.16.186.50...

Professional wrestling? What's professional about it? It's all one big
act - and not even a good act. They couldn't even get that right!

[Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy]

"Dragon Lady" <sgt...@comcast.net> wrote in
news:klrpcv$h3$1...@dont-email.me:

They get paid to do it, so it's professional. The proper question
is "What's wrestling about it?"

> It's all
> one big act - and not even a good act. They couldn't even get
> that right!
>

The important thing to remember is that in California, professional
wrestling isn't regulated by the Sports Commission, it's regulated
by the Entertainment Commission.

Justl ike all reality TV shows have a writing staff.

[David Johnston]

About sixty years in the future although being post-apocalypse kind of
increases the effective difference.

[inf...@mindspring.com]

On Wed, 01 May 2013 14:28:11 -0600, David Johnston <Da...@block.net>
wrote:

>>
>> Seriously? How far in the future is this supposed to be, and when did
>> they kill off all the adults who would have used the words we use now?
>>
>
>About sixty years in the future although being post-apocalypse kind of
>increases the effective difference.

More like thirty years. Nolan reminisces about places in St Loius that
he knew as a kid before the invasion.

[David Johnston]

The invasion doesn't happen next Tuesday. It's decades in the future.

[inf...@mindspring.com]

On Wed, 01 May 2013 15:25:44 -0600, David Johnston <Da...@block.net>

wrote:

>On 5/1/2013 2:40 PM, inf...@mindspring.com wrote:
>> On Wed, 01 May 2013 14:28:11 -0600, David Johnston <Da...@block.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>>
>>>> Seriously? How far in the future is this supposed to be, and when did
>>>> they kill off all the adults who would have used the words we use now?
>>>>
>>>
>>> About sixty years in the future although being post-apocalypse kind of
>>> increases the effective difference.
>>
>> More like thirty years. Nolan reminisces about places in St Loius that
>> he knew as a kid before the invasion.
>>
>
>The invasion doesn't happen next Tuesday. It's decades in the future.

The question was: Has there been sufficient time since the invasion to
effect such sweeping societal and language changes? Presumably, before
the invasion not much was different than it is today.

[dx...@albury.nospam.net.au]

Dimensional Traveler wrote:

<Snip>

> I also think the writers aren't even going to try to be consistent
> because no one really thought the setup through all the way. Little
> things like all vehicles are "rollers". Not "trucks" or "cars". When
> did "police" become "lawkeeper"? Etc.

What's in a name??

Don't know about overseas, but here in Australia we used to have "Police
Forces". Now we have "Police Services" ... makes them sound nicer, I guess.

Daniel

[David Johnston]

Well when we're talking about things like a shift in terminology from
"car" to "roller" that sort of thing can happen in 60 years pretty
randomly even without an apocalypse. I expect that calling law
enforcement officers "lawkeepers" is done deliberately because one or
more of the wacky alien cultures gives a lot of respect to people called
"lawkeepers".

[David Johnston]

On 5/2/2013 7:54 AM, je.s...@hehxduhmp.org wrote:

> In rec.arts.sf.tv David Johnston <Da...@block.net> wrote:
>> The invasion doesn't happen next Tuesday. It's decades in the future.
>

> Actually the arrival of the aliens was supposed to be in present time.
>

Ah. I appreciate your correction although frankly I would have
preferred it the other way. But then I had the same beef with Star Trek.

[Dimensional Traveler]

Thirty years. Rugged Hero With Alien Daughter was about ten when the
aliens first arrived.

[Dimensional Traveler]

Actually, yes, it does.

[Ken from Chicago]

"David Johnston" <Da...@block.net> wrote in message
news:klunuq$bh4$3...@dont-email.me...

Here's the timeline:

http://www.defiance.com/en/series/world-of-2046/invasion-timeline

Yes, the alien, Votans, arrive in Earth orbit in 2013, but between
negotiations, settlements, wars, etc. the show is set 33 years later, in
2046.

That said, in an Earth devastated by global war and xenoforming and
resettlements by human/Votan groups, it kinda makes sense that some words
would be altered like in bordertowns or port-cities settled by a large
number of immigrants in human history who cobble together a common language.

-- Ken from Chicago

[Tony Calguire]

inf...@mindspring.com wrote in
news:v2j3o8t96b8m7cdfb...@4ax.com:

>
> The question was: Has there been sufficient time since the invasion to
> effect such sweeping societal and language changes? Presumably, before
> the invasion not much was different than it is today.

Computer programs became "applications", and applications became "apps", in
barely 20 years.

[Dimensional Traveler]

And yet cars are still cars and police are still police.

[dx...@albury.nospam.net.au]

Dimensional Traveler wrote:
> On 5/4/2013 10:13 AM, Tony Calguire wrote:
>> inf...@mindspring.com wrote in
>> news:v2j3o8t96b8m7cdfb...@4ax.com:
>>
>>>
>>> The question was: Has there been sufficient time since the invasion to
>>> effect such sweeping societal and language changes? Presumably, before
>>> the invasion not much was different than it is today.
>>
>>
>> Computer programs became "applications", and applications became
>> "apps", in
>> barely 20 years.
>>
> And yet cars are still cars and police are still police.
>

but aren't police about to become "Law Enforcers"??

Daniel

[Dimensional Traveler]

Not that I've heard.

[Dragon Lady]

"Tony Calguire" <tc...@yahoo.invalid> wrote in message
news:km3fk0$uea$2...@dont-email.me...

Yes, but that's a more or less natural progression - it's a word from a
specialty that became a part of the common language. Changing cars to
rollers (or whatever it was) just doesn't follow that same progression.

[Jerry Heyman]

In a world with folks from different worlds/societies, being able to have
a common word to describe something is important. Earthlings understand
Police - as law enforcers. Explaining the concept of what the Police do,
could cause others to wonder why their job title doesn't reflect what they
do.

Same concept with automobile -> car -> roller. Automobile makes sense as
it describes what the machine does. car? roller defines the method of
transportation (ie rolling tires on the surface). My only question is
whether or not there are any 'flyers'...

jerry
--
// Jerry Heyman | A government that is big enough to give
// Amigan Forever :-) | you everything you want, is big enough
\\ // heymanj at acm dot org | to take away everything you have
\X/ http://www.hobbeshollow.com| -- Thomas Jefferson

[Dragon Lady]

"Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy" <taus...@gmail.com> wrote in message

news:XnsA1B388A5AA0...@69.16.186.50...

I stand corrected. Well, actually, I sit corrected, but you get my
drift....

>> It's all
>> one big act - and not even a good act. They couldn't even get
>> that right!
>>
> The important thing to remember is that in California, professional
> wrestling isn't regulated by the Sports Commission, it's regulated
> by the Entertainment Commission.
>
> Justl ike all reality TV shows have a writing staff.

They really should cough up the money to hire some *good* writing staff.

[Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy]

"Dragon Lady" <sgt...@comcast.net> wrote in

news:kn1j6i$o4r$1...@dont-email.me:

Drift is what usenet is all about.

>
>>> It's all
>>> one big act - and not even a good act. They couldn't even get
>>> that right!
>>>
>> The important thing to remember is that in California,
>> professional wrestling isn't regulated by the Sports
>> Commission, it's regulated by the Entertainment Commission.
>>
>> Justl ike all reality TV shows have a writing staff.
>
> They really should cough up the money to hire some *good*
> writing staff.
>

Is there a TV show in existence that can't be said of?

[Dragon Lady]

"Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy" <taus...@gmail.com> wrote in message

news:XnsA1C2656F550...@69.16.186.7...

Yes. Unfortunatly, it's never true consistently.

[Lone Browncoat]

A little necropost to add my .02.....

Firefly, I miss being on the air......
but too late for a revival now, eg. while
Summer Glau is still cute, she could no longer pass for 17.
At least "Serenity" had offered some closure.
I could care less if "Defiance" gets the boot,
It seems more like a make work project, even though
a couple of my faves are getting paycheques from the
show {Julie Benz, whom I've liked from "Angel" to
"No Ordinary Family" that should have been renewed.}
Defiance getting canceled wouldn't bother me.