Peacekeepers = The Clans from Battletech
Guy Under The Bridge
them to be a wierd fusion of Spartan and the PLA. But then it struck
me that I'm giving the writers far too much credit -- they are, in
fact, supposed to be Clansmen from the Battletech universe. It all
fits. The jelous pride of rank, the irrational, open disdain of
non-combat members, the harsh regulations and punishments, seemingly
irrational beliefs about genetic superiority, and the death penalty
for contaminating the "bloodlines". I should have known the writers of
this show would have skipped world history for a popular game.
Of course, I could be wrong. There has been more than once that I got
the distinct feeling that the writers just plain didn't know who the
Peacekeepers were supposed to be. For instance, Aeryn said that she
was "never alone", and that she was always a part of a larger unit of
people. Later, Chriton told her that Peacekeepers were trained to
fight and die alone. Which directly contradicts what Aeryn said. This
shows that the writers are not willing to maintain universal
consistency, and are only interested in making the episode work.
And another thing -- how can Crais possibly get away with taking a
major combatant of the Peacekeeper forces totally outside of his
orders? Try to imagine a US carrier doing something similar, and
you'll see how ridiculous it is. The ship's executive officers would
all expect to see printed orders, for one thing. People would expect
updates from higher up, or at least to send them. Finding the ship's
XO dead with a broken neck after being alone with the captain in his
quarters would probably lead to a little bit of an "event" I would
think.
BTW, killing Teeg was the writer's clumsy way of trying to make Crais
into a hate-driven madman -- but it just makes him look like a foolish
sychopath. That kind of characterization needs a high degree of
writing skill and acting ability, neither of which is evident. So
Crais isn't Captain Nemo, but then again this show isn't exactly Moby
Dick.
Nick
I know nothing about Battle Tech but I agree about the Crais situation.
Tom Francis
"Guy Under The Bridge" <GU...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:835ab1b3.02012...@posting.google.com...
> From what we've seen of the Peacekeepers, I have originally thought
> them to be a wierd fusion of Spartan and the PLA. But then it struck
> me that I'm giving the writers far too much credit -- they are, in
> fact, supposed to be Clansmen from the Battletech universe. It all
> fits. The jelous pride of rank, the irrational, open disdain of
> non-combat members, the harsh regulations and punishments, seemingly
> irrational beliefs about genetic superiority, and the death penalty
> for contaminating the "bloodlines". I should have known the writers of
> this show would have skipped world history for a popular game.
It is a pretty common theme in military tech stuff. Drake and others
have pretty much used this theme on a consistant basis.
Nothing much new here.
> Of course, I could be wrong. There has been more than once that I got
> the distinct feeling that the writers just plain didn't know who the
> Peacekeepers were supposed to be. For instance, Aeryn said that she
> was "never alone", and that she was always a part of a larger unit of
> people. Later, Chriton told her that Peacekeepers were trained to
> fight and die alone. Which directly contradicts what Aeryn said.
Well, it's pretty obvious that you've never been in combat - real time
honest-to-god "they are trying to kill me" combat. You could be in
a million man army and when the shooting starts, you are alone - that
bullet is meant for you. Doesn't matter which or what or where it comes
from, you are all alone - with that bullet, shrapnel, grenade, pungi stick,
Bouncing Betty - anything you care to name - it's you and it.
The saving grace is that you are never alone - you have friends and buddies
and that's the larger grace of being a grunt. The short end of the stick is
when the shooting starts, it's you and the enemy - no more, no less.
> This shows that the writers are not willing to maintain universal
> consistency, and are only interested in making the episode work.
Please - think about what you just said.
John Iwaniszek
> Guy Under The Bridge wrote:
>
>> From what we've seen of the Peacekeepers, I have originally thought
>> them to be a wierd fusion of Spartan and the PLA. But then it struck
>> me that I'm giving the writers far too much credit -- they are, in
>> fact, supposed to be Clansmen from the Battletech universe. It all
>> fits. The jelous pride of rank, the irrational, open disdain of
>> non-combat members, the harsh regulations and punishments, seemingly
>> irrational beliefs about genetic superiority, and the death penalty
>> for contaminating the "bloodlines". I should have known the writers of
>> this show would have skipped world history for a popular game.
Or maybe they have never heard of battle tech and the similarities are pure
coincidence.
>>
>> Of course, I could be wrong. There has been more than once that I got
>> the distinct feeling that the writers just plain didn't know who the
>> Peacekeepers were supposed to be. For instance, Aeryn said that she
>> was "never alone", and that she was always a part of a larger unit of
>> people. Later, Chriton told her that Peacekeepers were trained to
>> fight and die alone. Which directly contradicts what Aeryn said. This
>> shows that the writers are not willing to maintain universal
>> consistency, and are only interested in making the episode work.
and?
>>
>> And another thing -- how can Crais possibly get away with taking a
>> major combatant of the Peacekeeper forces totally outside of his
>> orders? Try to imagine a US carrier doing something similar, and
>> you'll see how ridiculous it is. The ship's executive officers would
>> all expect to see printed orders, for one thing. People would expect
>> updates from higher up, or at least to send them. Finding the ship's
>> XO dead with a broken neck after being alone with the captain in his
>> quarters would probably lead to a little bit of an "event" I would
>> think.
She cut herself while shaving. I don't see what the big deal is.
>>
>> BTW, killing Teeg was the writer's clumsy way of trying to make Crais
>> into a hate-driven madman -- but it just makes him look like a foolish
>> sychopath. That kind of characterization needs a high degree of
>> writing skill and acting ability, neither of which is evident. So
>> Crais isn't Captain Nemo, but then again this show isn't exactly Moby
>> Dick.
>
> I know nothing about Battle Tech but I agree about the Crais situation.
Get over teeg. She was just a blip.
And Captain Nemo is from "20,000 Leagues Under the Sea". Ahab was the Captain
of the Pequod in "Moby Dick".
Guy Under The Bridge
pure
> coincidence.
Maybe. Or maybe one writer had EXACTLY the same concept for a society that a
previous one had. However, the most simple explination for the the
dead-ringer similarity is that the Peacekeepers are a rip-off of the Clans.
When making up these alien societies, most writers of television calibur
will base them off of historic societies. But in Farscape the eminent
"alien" society, Sabaceans/Peacekeepers, are based off of a game.
> and?
And so we cannot expect to make sense of the universe because the writers
make up details that may condradict one another. Therefore, it may not be
truly possible for the Peacekeepers to be faithfully modelled at ALL.
> Get over teeg. She was just a blip.
I don't mind Teeg. What I do mind is the complete failure of the writers to
make Crais into a compelling hate-driven madman. That scene was supposed to
drive it home for the viewer, but because of the lack of writing ability
such a thing requires and the fact that Lani Tupu as Crais just isn't up to
that kind of performance. Instead, he just turns into a foolish sychopath.
> And Captain Nemo is from "20,000 Leagues Under the Sea". Ahab was the
Captain
> of the Pequod in "Moby Dick".
I knew there was something wrong with that sentence when I posted it, lol.
Thanks :)
John Iwaniszek
>> Or maybe they have never heard of battle tech and the similarities are
>> pure coincidence.
>
> Maybe. Or maybe one writer had EXACTLY the same concept for a society
> that a previous one had. However, the most simple explination for the the
> dead-ringer similarity is that the Peacekeepers are a rip-off of the
> Clans.
This is pure hubris. You should cast a wider net when looking for "simple"
solution.
>
> When making up these alien societies, most writers of television calibur
> will base them off of historic societies. But in Farscape the eminent
> "alien" society, Sabaceans/Peacekeepers, are based off of a game.
Not. I can tell you have convinced yourself of this. I remained unconvinced.
>
>> and?
>
> And so we cannot expect to make sense of the universe because the writers
> make up details that may condradict one another. Therefore, it may not be
> truly possible for the Peacekeepers to be faithfully modelled at ALL.
I am saddened. The lose to humanity is incalcuable.
>
>> Get over teeg. She was just a blip.
>
> I don't mind Teeg. What I do mind is the complete failure of the writers
> to make Crais into a compelling hate-driven madman. That scene was
> supposed to drive it home for the viewer, but because of the lack of
> writing ability such a thing requires and the fact that Lani Tupu as
> Crais just isn't up to that kind of performance. Instead, he just turns
> into a foolish sychopath.
"Psychopath", Ahab, Not based on a game, so what.
Trouble
>> Or maybe they have never heard of battle tech and the similarities are
>> pure coincidence.
> Maybe. Or maybe one writer had EXACTLY the same concept for a society
> that a previous one had. However, the most simple explination for the
> the dead-ringer similarity is that the Peacekeepers are a rip-off of
> the Clans.
That pre-supposes that the writers have a whole cloth idea for what
the PKs are... They don't, they are 'menacing and evul' that's all.
> When making up these alien societies, most writers of television
> calibur will base them off of historic societies. But in Farscape the
> eminent "alien" society, Sabaceans/Peacekeepers, are based off of a
> game.
The writers have said they modeled the art of the PKs after Russian
constructivists. This is to keep them from being Space-Nazis like
any other sci-fi series has space Nazi's as the bad guy. PKs have
trained soldiers from birth AND conscripts... They are mercenaries
who sell their protective services, but also wage wars in the name
of their Sebbacean homeworlds, and enslave worlds to do their dirty
work.
I actually know about the clans, the PKs have no duels of honor,or
code as such, Aeryn was never portrayed that way, Xhalax wasn't,
Larraq wasn't, Crais wasn't, Braca isn't...
The PKs are generic bad guys they are molded with a special unit
or set of orders to fit the episode, and you're putting way too
much thought into it.
> And so we cannot expect to make sense of the universe because the
> writers make up details that may condradict one another. Therefore, it
> may not be truly possible for the Peacekeepers to be faithfully
> modelled at ALL.
So they can't be ripping off the Clans otherwise they'd be more
internally consistent... And Stackpole or Charette would have to
bip them on the head.
>> Get over teeg. She was just a blip.
<Sean Connery>
She slipped on her tea...
</Sean Connery>
> I don't mind Teeg. What I do mind is the complete failure of the
> writers to make Crais into a compelling hate-driven madman. That scene
> was supposed to drive it home for the viewer, but
didn't, lets leave it at that...
We're talking Seventh episode here, everyone involved has said that
the writers, actors, directors, didn't hit their stride until ep 8
or so... Anyhow there have been more daring-failures on Farscape I
have enjoyed watching even IF they didn't work out as well as they
might have with the acting/writing/direction they might have gotten
in a feature film.
Its still not the same warmed over PAP that hasn't changed since the
60's that we get from Paramount. I'm sure they don't have to edit any
Star Trek episodes in the UK because the Paramount boys are milking
a dead horse for all its worth, and then some... when they should
be sending it to the glue factory, and making something cool and
new with all the budget and toys they have.
--
T
A little piece of paper with a picture drawn
Floats on down the street till the wind is gone
The memory now is like the picture was then
When the paper's crumpled up it can't be perfect again
- Forgotten, Linkin Park
Rick Savoia
19674.news.dfncis.de:
> Guy Under The Bridge wrote:
>
>> From what we've seen of the Peacekeepers, I have originally thought
>> them to be a wierd fusion of Spartan and the PLA. But then it struck
>> me that I'm giving the writers far too much credit -- they are, in
>> fact, supposed to be Clansmen from the Battletech universe. It all
>> fits. The jelous pride of rank, the irrational, open disdain of
>> non-combat members, the harsh regulations and punishments, seemingly
>> irrational beliefs about genetic superiority, and the death penalty
>> for contaminating the "bloodlines". I should have known the writers of
>> this show would have skipped world history for a popular game.
>>
>> Of course, I could be wrong. There has been more than once that I got
>> the distinct feeling that the writers just plain didn't know who the
>> Peacekeepers were supposed to be. For instance, Aeryn said that she
>> was "never alone", and that she was always a part of a larger unit of
>> people. Later, Chriton told her that Peacekeepers were trained to
>> fight and die alone. Which directly contradicts what Aeryn said. This
>> shows that the writers are not willing to maintain universal
>> consistency, and are only interested in making the episode work.
Hmm. I very much disagree here. If your argument was that Aeryn
said that she was "never alone" and then you pointed out that later,
Aeryn ALSO said that Peacekeepers were trained to fight and die alone,
then maybe I'd agree with you.
However, the writers had Crichton make an observation to Aeryn. I think
it's a fairly common situation: Have an outsider view the situation and
make their own judgements. Aeryn may have believed that she was "never
alone" but Crichton pointed out that that may not have been the case. We
have seen a few examples of how Peacekeepers will do what they feel is
necessary to advance themselves. Aeryn provided a good example herself when
she turned in her own lover in that flashback episode.
Remember that Aeryn had a bit of a struggle (and still does) to remove her
Peacekeeper training and thinking when she moved into this new crew. This
'contradiction' could be part of that.
>> And another thing -- how can Crais possibly get away with taking a
>> major combatant of the Peacekeeper forces totally outside of his
>> orders? Try to imagine a US carrier doing something similar, and
>> you'll see how ridiculous it is. The ship's executive officers would
>> all expect to see printed orders, for one thing. People would expect
>> updates from higher up, or at least to send them. Finding the ship's
>> XO dead with a broken neck after being alone with the captain in his
>> quarters would probably lead to a little bit of an "event" I would
>> think.
>> BTW, killing Teeg was the writer's clumsy way of trying to make Crais
>> into a hate-driven madman -- but it just makes him look like a foolish
>> sychopath. That kind of characterization needs a high degree of
>> writing skill and acting ability, neither of which is evident. So
>> Crais isn't Captain Nemo, but then again this show isn't exactly Moby
>> Dick.
>
> I know nothing about Battle Tech but I agree about the Crais situation.
I don't. The Peacekeeper military system is not like a US military system.
Peacekeepers are out for long periods of time and may encounter situations
that Peacekeeper command can't do anything about until it's too late. Most
likely, Captains are given the authority to make a wide range of judgement
calls while away from Command.
A system like this also encourages a Captain to surround him or herself
with very loyal people. Brakka is a great example. Scorpius treats him
like yesterday's trash yet he keeps coming back for more. Teeg, through
motiviations we'll never know, was the same. She was willing to ignore
orders from Command to support Crais. Why? Maybe she was too loyal and
paid the price. Or maybe she was ambitious. If Crais finally did return to
Command, she could testify against him in exchange for her own command.
A system like this is also always headed for breakdown. Eventually, it
tears itself apart from the inside.
However, I don't think it was clumsy on the writers part. We were not
supposed to like Crais in the first season. He was supposed to be portrayed
as a madman or a psychopath. I think they accomplished that AND showed us a
good degree of what the Peacekeepers are like.
Besides, though it may seem clumsy, I think it did a great job of setting us
up for later in the series as we now have to reconcile our previous feelings
and thoughts about Crais with our current thoughts. Although, I do think
Lani Tupu does a better madman than a sympathetic character.
Rick Savoia
>> Or maybe they have never heard of battle tech and the similarities are
>> pure coincidence.
>
> Maybe. Or maybe one writer had EXACTLY the same concept for a society
> that a previous one had. However, the most simple explination for the
> the dead-ringer similarity is that the Peacekeepers are a rip-off of
> the Clans.
Your Clan argument isn't working for me. Clans imply similar structured
groups. For instance, if there was the 'Peacekeeper Clan', the 'Police
Clan', the 'Warmongering Clan'. All similarly structured where they each
have power and weapons roughly equal to one another.
I view the Sebecean society as more military or feudal (is feudal the one
I'm looking for?). Where you have a military wing that controls most of the
society and the rest are relegated more to a servant class.
I have seen no indication of any sort of 'clan' structure.
>
>
> And so we cannot expect to make sense of the universe because the
> writers make up details that may condradict one another. Therefore, it
> may not be truly possible for the Peacekeepers to be faithfully
> modelled at ALL.
Well, I think your basis is flawed so you cannot therefore reconcile the
rest of the universe. If you remove your clan argument, I think you might
see it differently.
>
>
>
Guy Under The Bridge
> Well, I think your basis is flawed so you cannot therefore reconcile the
> rest of the universe. If you remove your clan argument, I think you might
> see it differently.
As I said before, before I made the connection with the Clans, I would have
guessed some cross between the militant, stratified and cruel culture of the
Spartans and the tremendous power of commisar-like commanders. And I have
heard others voice the same thought.
And as another has pointed out, probably correctrly, is that the Peacekeeprs
have exactly one use: to be a one-size-fits-all evil Empire type. Everythign
else is just over-analyzation.
John Iwaniszek
>
> The writers have said they modeled the art of the PKs after Russian
> constructivists. This is to keep them from being Space-Nazis like
> any other sci-fi series has space Nazi's as the bad guy. PKs have
> trained soldiers from birth AND conscripts... They are mercenaries
> who sell their protective services, but also wage wars in the name
> of their Sebbacean homeworlds, and enslave worlds to do their dirty
> work.
>
Dude. The Russian Constructivists were an art movement, not a bunch of goose-
stepping politicos.
Trouble
Somehow I _just-knew_ someone's knee was going to jerk, and their
nose was going to bend out of shape... thanks John... I have made
the separation between the two thoughts above that is necessary
so that people won't imediately think I'm linking art to armies.
The art, and design of the PKs was Russian Constructivists which
were more like the Bauhaus or the Impressionists an art/design
style. <G'head asks me how many years of art-history and design
I had before I decided that the starving part of artist sucked>
However this was just to keep them from being gray uniformed Nazis
because in every other way, the PKs _are_ Space Nazis. They just
have Red and Black instead of Nazi Gray...
John Iwaniszek
> John Iwaniszek wrote:
>
>> Trouble wrote:
>
>>> The writers have said they modeled the art of the PKs after Russian
>>> constructivists. This is to keep them from being Space-Nazis like any
>>> other sci-fi series has space Nazi's as the bad guy.
>
>>> PKs have
>>> trained soldiers from birth AND conscripts... They are mercenaries
>>> who sell their protective services, but also wage wars in the name
>>> of their Sebbacean homeworlds, and enslave worlds to do their dirty
>>> work.
>
>> Dude. The Russian Constructivists were an art movement, not a bunch of
>> goose- stepping politicos.
>
> Somehow I _just-knew_ someone's knee was going to jerk, and their
> nose was going to bend out of shape... thanks John... I have made
> the separation between the two thoughts above that is necessary
> so that people won't imediately think I'm linking art to armies.
>
> The art, and design of the PKs was Russian Constructivists which
> were more like the Bauhaus or the Impressionists an art/design
> style. <G'head asks me how many years of art-history and design
> I had before I decided that the starving part of artist sucked>
>
> However this was just to keep them from being gray uniformed Nazis
> because in every other way, the PKs _are_ Space Nazis. They just
> have Red and Black instead of Nazi Gray...
>
>
Oops. Sorry. I must have skipped those words "the art of".
Trouble
> Oops. Sorry. I must have skipped those words "the art of".
if I want anyone to get anything out of them, sometimes the
visual separation of two paragraphs for two different ideas,
is as good or better a cue than the words themselves might be.
But the PK's sense of design is Russina Constructivist with
Celtic Knotwork on their Leather, but their military dogma
and aims are one size fits all bad guys (tm) where the are
called for by the writers.
Over lunch I discussed this idea with a coworker, and thought
that the only race that comes close to borrowed were the old
Luxan heads/sketches paired with D'Argo's actions and largely
impulsive nature might make Luxans similar to Kzinti (sp?)
The PKs are charicature bad guy military, the Nebari are the
charicature of thought controlling hegemony, Scarrans we have
not pegged yet...
Tyler Trafford
> John Iwaniszek wrote:
>
>> Oops. Sorry. I must have skipped those words "the art of".
>
> Nah don't be... I gotta construct my thoughts more carefully
> if I want anyone to get anything out of them, sometimes the
> visual separation of two paragraphs for two different ideas,
> is as good or better a cue than the words themselves might be.
>
> But the PK's sense of design is Russina Constructivist with
> Celtic Knotwork on their Leather, but their military dogma
> and aims are one size fits all bad guys (tm) where the are
> called for by the writers.
>
> Over lunch I discussed this idea with a coworker, and thought
> that the only race that comes close to borrowed were the old
> Luxan heads/sketches paired with D'Argo's actions and largely
> impulsive nature might make Luxans similar to Kzinti (sp?)
>
> The PKs are charicature bad guy military, the Nebari are the
> charicature of thought controlling hegemony, Scarrans we have
> not pegged yet...
They're the monsters under the bed, so to speak.
--
Tyler Trafford
ttra...@acm.org
John Iwaniszek
Think like a dinosaur.
John Iwaniszek
Escept for that damned hippy in 318.
Morrison by Proxy
Actually I think what is going on with Crais and even Scorpius working
outside the framework of the PKs is exactly what happens in the military.
Ask the Russians. I'll bet they have a lot to say on the subject... My
actual point is to mention that Scorpius' and Crais' actions are a symbol
of an organization in decline - too big, too bloated and too out of control
to have any real concept of what is happening in the rank and file.
--
Look for the ridiculous in everything and you will find it.
-Jules Renard
Cith
"bad guys", right down to the black uniform. They're the guys with
black hats who get killed in the end by guys with white hats in TV
westerns, they're the evil Russians from Rambo movies, they're a
generic adversary in a plot empty eye-candy show.
Tom Francis
"Cith" <kodex99NO...@mediaNOSPAMPLEASEone.net> wrote in message
news:fljp4uodtjuvs144j...@4ax.com...
Well, it's pretty obvious that you "don't get it".........
Around here, the more complicated we can make the episode with
angsty discussions, the subtle nuances of shapr and color not to mention
obscure Russian and Islamic artists, the better.
So get with the program and make it as complicated as we do.
Oh, and just so you aren't confused or anything, my view is that you
cannot have to many explosions in any given sci-fi episode.
I live for 'splosions.
Mendicus
the progression of certain world power, military forces which may or may
not be out to create a new world order.
http://www.angelfire.com/nj/jhgraf/
This argument is as old as time and done to death though, so don't bother
replying to me. I'm just a bankrupt lackey working for the man. I have
nothing you want.
-M
Nothing to see here please move along.
"Guy Under The Bridge" <GU...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:835ab1b3.02012...@posting.google.com...
Mendicus
"John Iwaniszek" <Jo...@Iwaniszek.com> wrote in message
news:Xns919D8D7...@130.133.1.4...
..and me.
How about Interstellar Dinosaur? Good name for a psychedelic band?
-M
Mendicus
-M
"Tom Francis" <to...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:a2hb4i$10q4bc$2...@ID-36512.news.dfncis.de...
Mendicus
> Peacekeepers are out for long periods of time and may encounter situations
> that Peacekeeper command can't do anything about until it's too late.
>
> tears itself apart from the inside.
Should have read this one before my previous post, my bad. This strongly
reflects the bigger picture on a microcosm scale. Although, there's
integrity left in the U.S. military, I still think there's a modicum of
truth in James Henry's rantings (i.e. "government of the people, by the
people, and for the people" -- echo hollowly now in my ears.") Lets hope we
as a world community move away from imperialism and back into the light of
democracy or at least a reasonable facsimile.
-M
"Gonna be a rough and rocky road."
-Some Hillbillly
Tom Francis
"Mendicus" <hedo...@mediaone.net> wrote in message
news:KQ438.23404$Ln2.5...@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net...
> Lets hope we as a world community move away from imperialism and
> back into the light of democracy or at least a reasonable facsimile.
LONG LIVE IMPERIALISM!!!!!!!!
Captain Nerd
"Tom Francis" <to...@mindspring.com> wrote:
So, if we democratically elect our emperors...
Cap.
--
"I am a citizen of the moment, I've built my white picket fence around
'the now', with a commanding view of 'the soon to be.' Does it really
matter? Does it really anti-matter?" - The Tick
Operation: Nerdwatch - http://www.nerdwatch.com
Graham Thurlwell
The Bridge <GU...@hotmail.com> says...
> > Or maybe they have never heard of battle tech and the similarities are
> pure
> > coincidence.
>
> Maybe. Or maybe one writer had EXACTLY the same concept for a society that a
> previous one had. However, the most simple explination for the the
> dead-ringer similarity is that the Peacekeepers are a rip-off of the Clans.
Spartans from Ancient Greece? Prussians? Those were predominantly
military societies.
--
Graham 'Jades' Thurlwell
Jades' FFE Site: http://www.jades.org/ffe.htm
The best Frontier First Encounters site on the net