The one change that would have made everyone happy
Chuckosan
god for Von Flores. TPTB decided early on to get rid of him (I knew about this
in October of 1997). They have now hired Robert Leeshock to replace him.
He's a much better actor in terms of portraying a range of emotions of someone
caught up in a war of deceit. The problem now is that the story line is so
mangled as to make it nearly unwatchable.
What should have been done in the firstplace? Leeshock should have played
Boone.
Bad casting leads to worse storytelling in an attempt to cover a mistake.
Chuck
Shane
>He's a much better actor in terms of portraying a range of emotions of someone
>caught up in a war of deceit.
A pity he delivers his lines like a quarterback who got a role in a
highschool play. He got the role primarily because he was a hunky "man
o' action" like all the rest of tribune's shows.
Let's face it, He did come from Melrose Place, right? nuff' said
>What should have been done in the firstplace? Leeshock should have played
>Boone.
How about Leeshock just be human. Of course he wouldn't be as exciting
as the main characters in Hercules, Xena, and Nightman; all of whom
are extra-human. Hey wait a minute, now that I think about it, could
that be the scent of marketing I smell on E:FC season two??
Shane
LessXTreme
>Thank
>god for Von Flores. TPTB decided early on to get rid of him (I knew about
>this
>in October of 1997). They have now hired Robert Leeshock to replace him.
>someone
>mangled as to make it nearly unwatchable.
>Boone.
Would make everyone happy, eh? I happen to like Kilner as an actor. He
portrayed emotions publicly hidden just right. He also had the correct attitude
for his character. Leeshock..ugh. Leeshock is a jock, pure and simple, the
action hero, dumping the intellectual lines in the trash can. I watched him
(and Augur) talk about contigious dimensions and their relations in Isabel and
tried not to scream. Leeshock is portraying Liam as a stupid, arrogant kid, and
occasionally the writers stick techno-gobbledygook in his mouth. Ugh again. I
miss Kilner sooooo much..
PkJ0891
chuc...@aol.com wrote:
>Kilner was a boring actor. I knew it from the first day I saw the show.
>Thank
>god for Von Flores. TPTB decided early on to get rid of him (I knew about
>this
>in October of 1997).
How did you know this? I swear I saw an interview with Kirschner somewhere
about December or January where he spoke vaguely of "changing direction" for
season two, but I haven't been able to find the article in order to quote it
specifically. Where did you get your information?
PKJ
TV doesn't have to be dumb. You can have a voice. If you want to be part of
the alternative TV ratings system, please check out Viewers for Quality
Television http://www.vqt.org
Ma`el
and the whole story is built around this kind of character. You'll find that the
characteristics needed to portray a strong, moral hero go hand in hand with earning
respect and dependability through action and word. That includes resisting and
defeating the antagonistic "drama" brought on by other characters. Nothing says
Boone has to be "entertaining" to be a successful hero; matter of fact, to do so
risks ruining his credibility as a hero. I understand if you don't find moral
strength and heroism exciting or entertaining, but I do. At times I perceived
Kilner the actor as being a little wooden, but that was a minor drawback compared
to the power of Boone the character. I would have preferred Kilner stay and simply
work his way into the character a little better. That would have been a much less
disruptive solution than what we've wound up with: an indescribable mess of a
character (Liam) and an actor with a fraction of the depth of Kilner.
At this point, they can't bring back Kilner, but they can either resurrect Boone,
turn Sandoval into the strong, moral hero (the story is still built around this
kind of character) or take the time to develop a new, *believable* moral hero.
This way, they can keep and reposition Liam as the apprentice/sidekick in the
ensemble, which is what the character and the actor have demonstrated is their real
value.
Chuckosan wrote:
> Kilner was a boring actor. I knew it from the first day I saw the show. Thank
> god for Von Flores. TPTB decided early on to get rid of him (I knew about this
> in October of 1997). They have now hired Robert Leeshock to replace him.
>
> He's a much better actor in terms of portraying a range of emotions of someone
> caught up in a war of deceit. The problem now is that the story line is so
> mangled as to make it nearly unwatchable.
>
> What should have been done in the firstplace? Leeshock should have played
> Boone.
>
> Bad casting leads to worse storytelling in an attempt to cover a mistake.
>
> Chuck
Spring Nguyen
probably because the typical "hunk-of" STONE actors (Kilner and Leeshock)
that syndicated TV usually throws our way does not work in a really good,
well thought out sci-fi scenario like EFC. Neither one are talented in the
acting- emoting department. But thats to be expected. 've always hated Riker
on TNG, but love Picard. Know what I mean?
-s
Chuckosan wrote in message <19990120135217...@ng111.aol.com>...
Shane
>At this point, they can't bring back Kilner, but they can either resurrect Boone,
Somebody would have to eat crow and producers would scuttle the show
before that.
>turn Sandoval into the strong, moral hero (the story is still built around this
>kind of character) or take the time to develop a new, *believable* moral hero.
Sandoval still has to many "issues" to make a hero. IMO
>This way, they can keep and reposition Liam as the apprentice/sidekick in the
>ensemble, which is what the character and the actor have demonstrated is their real
>value.
ouch, but the truth does hurt. :-)
Shane
Jarmo Puskala
> At this point, they can't bring back Kilner, but they can either resurrect Boone,
Resurrectin Boone at this point might sound quite far fetched, but I
really think it could work, even the first season set it up so. Pike
said Boone would become Shakarava and Shakarava was killed and
resurrected. And they have the technology to transfer minds to different
bodies so there's no need for Kilner... In my opinion this would fit the
plot more than perfectly.
But what I hope most is that the propducers would have a real story arc
as they promised and they would stick to that.
--
I- - - - - - Three years ago they came... - - - - - -I
I-- Earth: Final Conflict www.sci.fi/~jarmop/efc/ --I
I- - - jar...@zahadum.com - www.sci.fi/~jarmop/ - - -I
Tim
Chuckosan <chuc...@aol.com> wrote in article
Terrafamilia
Shane wrote:
> >turn Sandoval into the strong, moral hero (the story is still built around this
> >kind of character) or take the time to develop a new, *believable* moral hero.
>
> Sandoval still has to many "issues" to make a hero. IMO
So, he can be a flawed hero.
Terrafamilia
Terrafamilia
Tim wrote:
> what does TPTB mean?
The Powers That Be
Timothy Rote
I think there were any number of times when his character came alive because
it was called for. If he acted dead sometimes (as you seem to think), then
it was because that was what the director called for.
I enjoy the new character of Liam Kincaid, particularly since the producers
have gotten over the "new power every week" thing. But, I am really
disappointed with the show so far. They bring up so many major plot points
and then just drop them. I really hope the producers can get their act
together and turn this around.
Chuckosan wrote in message <19990120135217...@ng111.aol.com>...
Timothy Rote
lead in the battle. If the show has any direction at present, it is clearly
going towards Liam emerging as the ultimate hero. Perhaps Sandoval will
have a change of heart and work with Liam in the end. After all, his CVI is
barely functioning (now how could the producers raise that point and then
just let it drop. I suppose it is obvious that Zo'or doesn't mind
Sandoval's loss of his motivational imperative. If he still had it, he
would not be able to help so actively in the plots against Da'an).
Shane wrote in message <36a769af...@news.quik.com>...
>On Wed, 20 Jan 1999 22:27:42 -0500, Ma`el <ma...@spamless.net> wrote:
>
>>At this point, they can't bring back Kilner, but they can either resurrect
Boone,
>
>Somebody would have to eat crow and producers would scuttle the show
>before that.
>
>>turn Sandoval into the strong, moral hero (the story is still built around
this
>>kind of character) or take the time to develop a new, *believable* moral
hero.
>
>Sandoval still has to many "issues" to make a hero. IMO
>
Timothy Rote
acting onthis series has been very uneven.
But the bigger problem has been the producing and the lack of a clear and
uniform direction. Early during season 2, there was a lot of talk about
loose versus tight scripting. Babylon 5 is the example of tight scripting
and Star Trek of loose scripting. The producers supposedly wanted to have
tight scripting. If you missed an episode, you were dead. Well, the
scripting has been so uneven, and so many major plotlines have been started
and then killed, I have no idea where the show is going.
While I enjoy EFC, it is not what I would currently call a "really good,
well thought out sci-fi scenario.
I do agree with your assessment of Von Flores. He has been great this
season. BTW, his email is impla...@aol.com. Drop him a line.
Spring Nguyen wrote in message <7866gn$2no$1...@news1.channel1.com>...
>I defintely agree! Lilly and Sandoval have really shown this season, and
its
>probably because the typical "hunk-of" STONE actors (Kilner and Leeshock)
>that syndicated TV usually throws our way does not work in a really good,
>well thought out sci-fi scenario like EFC. Neither one are talented in the
>acting- emoting department. But thats to be expected. 've always hated
Riker
>on TNG, but love Picard. Know what I mean?
>
>-s
>
>
Gary
>Actually, at some point Liam's character has to emerge as a very dominant
>lead in the battle. If the show has any direction at present, it is
clearly
>going towards Liam emerging as the ultimate hero.
Tim,
Liam is the ultimate everything. He is a comic book cartoon hero. Not
credible, with no comprehensible motivation. We appear to be down to 2
Taelons, 1 half human half a zillion other things, and some unknown number
of Jaridians... at least 2 of the races are composed of 3 characters at
present... this is fewer enemies than Superman or Batman face on any evening
in Metropolis/Gothom... while even Superman has limits, we know Liam has
none, any needed superpower emerges in the last few minutes of any show to
solve all problems. Liam needs no wits, no motivation, no reason, he just
solves everything by magic. Indeed he appears more powerful than most
genies. I find him very much a bore, the show in season 2 a bore, and the
depth of character development to be so reduced that none of the characters
are of any real interest. Could it improve, yes, but not with Liam in his
current omnipotent state.
Gary
>I don't think it was Kilner's acting so much as the nature of the
character.
>I think there were any number of times when his character came alive
because
>it was called for. If he acted dead sometimes (as you seem to think), then
>it was because that was what the director called for.
The actor playing Boone had talent, the actor playing Liam has none. The
wooden reading of Liam in scene after scene is iteself even without the
horrible scripts/production values of Season 2 enough of a reason to avoid
the show. The few scenes I watched last week with Liam and a godlike
"human/taelon/jaridian" were so awfully acted I felt pain listening. A high
school drama club wouldn't have cast either actor/actress for a role based
on those readings. Of course Liam not having any motivation, any limits, any
rationale, any reason to be even involved with anything going on in the show
probably doesn't help an actor determine how to play the role.
Joe Rosa
season. Wrote her off as having a baby!
Timothy Rote
"Heaven and Hell" raises an interesting question. If Belman's daughter was
able to fully develop god-like powers overnight, and Liam supposedly has
much the same DNA (if not the same), why is it taking him so long?
Gary wrote in message ...
Shane
wrote:
>So, he can be a flawed hero.
If you call somebody who conspires with others to commit murder a
"flawed hero"....
Shane
Shane
<gd...@no.spam.please.usa.net> wrote:
>Liam is the ultimate everything. He is a comic book cartoon hero.
Hmm, could a special guest appearance by "Nightman" be far behind....
Terrafamilia
Shane wrote:
I didn't say he was there yet.
Terrafamilia
line noise
> If anyone can be accused of bad acting, it's got to be Lisa Howard. Her
> acting onthis series has been very uneven.
I am afraid i must agree whith you. She can be dramatic which is good
but she can alsow be over-dramatic, which may be the director.
> I do agree with your assessment of Von Flores. He has been great this
> season. BTW, his email is impla...@aol.com. Drop him a line.
He is great, he should have played the part of Boon from the begining.
He would have been perfict. L. Parker _is_ perfict.
> Spring Nguyen wrote in message <7866gn$2no$1...@news1.channel1.com>...
> But thats to be expected. 've always hated Riker on TNG
've <-- verry nice contration! short for i've, we've, they've...
Shane
wrote:
>> If you call somebody who conspires with others to commit murder a
>> "flawed hero"....
>
>I didn't say he was there yet.
And most don't until they do 10 to 20 in the big house. Sandoval was
always damaged goods and with his CVI mostly non-functional he, at
last, is showing his true colors. But hey, if you can time travel, go
to alternate universes, contradict everything established in season
one. I guess Sandoval could become Mother Teresa while the writers are
at it too.
Shane
Burgess Fred
>> If anyone can be accused of bad acting, it's got to be Lisa Howard. Her
>> acting onthis series has been very uneven.
L> I am afraid i must agree whith you. She can be dramatic which is good
L> but she can alsow be over-dramatic, which may be the director.
>> I do agree with your assessment of Von Flores. He has been great this
>> season. BTW, his email is impla...@aol.com. Drop him a line.
L> He is great, he should have played the part of Boon from the begining.
L> He would have been perfict. L. Parker _is_ perfict.
>> Spring Nguyen wrote in message <7866gn$2no$1...@news1.channel1.com>...
>> But thats to be expected. 've always hated Riker on TNG
L> 've <-- verry nice contration! short for i've, we've, they've...
Look lets not jump on other people until we have our own SPELLING correct!
Perfect is spelled with 2 e's not an 'i'. Also, is not spelled with a 'w'.
Use your spell checker, or I can sell you one. :)
To reply, reverse my name.
... Only GOD is Supreme!!
B. Dutka-Menges
>Kilner was a boring actor. I knew it from the first day I saw the show.
Thank
>god for Von Flores. TPTB decided early on to get rid of him (I knew about
this
>in October of 1997). They have now hired Robert Leeshock to replace him.
>
truly am appalled at season 2. Replacing him with Leeshock was a terrible
decision.
>He's a much better actor in terms of portraying a range of emotions of
someone
>caught up in a war of deceit. The problem now is that the story line is so
>mangled as to make it nearly unwatchable.
>
Leeshock is utterly horrible (his primary resume is he came from 90210 and
quite frankly, that director has dealt with the nepotism factor so long that
he could make anyone look good on screen - too bad they didn't bring the
director when they hired Leeshock). Leeshock can't seem to portray emotion
(except constipation), his body language sucks and he needs voice lessons to
learn inflections.
>
>What should have been done in the firstplace? Leeshock should have played
>Boone.
>Bad casting leads to worse storytelling in an attempt to cover a mistake.
>
Leeshock play Boone? What do you think he's trying to do... I do agree with
you on the last line... Replacing Kilner with Leeshock was bad casting and
it's definitely led to worse storytelling in a desperate attempt to cover a
truly appalling mistake.
line noise
> >> Spring Nguyen wrote in message <7866gn$2no$1...@news1.channel1.com>...
> >> But thats to be expected. 've always hated Riker on TNG
>
> L> 've <-- verry nice contration! short for i've, we've, they've...
>
> Look lets not jump on other people until we have our own SPELLING correct!
I was not jumping on his spelling! Why the verry thought amuses me! I
was complamenting him on his creation and apropeat use of a nifty new
word. Please rewread my post to him...
We don't have puntuation marks for sarcasum in the english language yet
english relies heavaly on tone and inflection, so it is verry hard to
'hear' what peaple are 'typing'. After a few years on the net I have
learned that when I come across an ambigous post that can be read as
iether sarcastickly insulting or genuin prais it is best to interprat it
as prais. Not just becouse it caoses fuer flam-wars and smaller ulsers
but becouse prais is the corect interprtation 90% of the time and I just
prefer being right.
The same is true in real life. When someone says somthing that is iether
the result of insanity or brillence then treat them like they are
brillent (even if you have some doubts...) If you treat them politly
even though you think they are nuts and it tourns out you are right then
the worst that will happen is you will be entertained by more of there
zanny and insain ideas when ever you chose to talk whith them. If you
show you contempt for there ideas becouse you mistakenly think thay are
cracked and it turns out that instead they are brillent then the worst
that can happen to you is you are bereft of the greatest source of
entertainment and productivity known to civilization, true knoledge.
Giving someone the benifits of the doubt is also a benifit we give
ourselves.
Bigner
Chuckosan wrote:
> Kilner was a boring actor.
That is simply untrue.
> I knew it from the first day I saw the show. Thank
> god for Von Flores. TPTB decided early on to get rid of him (I knew about this
> in October of 1997). They have now hired Robert Leeshock to replace him.
>
> He's a much better actor in terms of portraying a range of emotions
He just looks constipated half of the time. That's even more untrue.
> of someone
> caught up in a war of deceit. The problem now is that the story line is so
> mangled as to make it nearly unwatchable.
>
> What should have been done in the firstplace? Leeshock should have played
> Boone.
>
LOL.
>
> Bad casting leads to worse storytelling in an attempt to cover a mistake.
>
> Chuck
Troll alert.
Transx
constant misspellings.
06:18pm, L...@MDI.CA blabbered insanely to ALL on Jan 24, 1999:
L> I was not jumping on his spelling! Why the verry thought amuses me! I
L> was complamenting him on his creation and apropeat use of a nifty new
L> word. Please rewread my post to him...
L> We don't have puntuation marks for sarcasum in the english language yet
L> english relies heavaly on tone and inflection, so it is verry hard to
L> 'hear' what peaple are 'typing'. After a few years on the net I have
L> learned that when I come across an ambigous post that can be read as
L> iether sarcastickly insulting or genuin prais it is best to interprat it
L> as prais. Not just becouse it caoses fuer flam-wars and smaller ulsers
L> but becouse prais is the corect interprtation 90% of the time and I just
L> prefer being right.
L> The same is true in real life. When someone says somthing that is iether
L> the result of insanity or brillence then treat them like they are
L> brillent (even if you have some doubts...) If you treat them politly
L> even though you think they are nuts and it tourns out you are right then
L> the worst that will happen is you will be entertained by more of there
L> zanny and insain ideas when ever you chose to talk whith them. If you
L> show you contempt for there ideas becouse you mistakenly think thay are
L> cracked and it turns out that instead they are brillent then the worst
L> that can happen to you is you are bereft of the greatest source of
L> entertainment and productivity known to civilization, true knoledge.
L> Giving someone the benifits of the doubt is also a benifit we give
L> ourselves.
line noise
> I'm sorry, but I was unable to read more then 90% of you message due to
> constant misspellings.
That is understandible, thank you for your effort aneyway.
Chuckosan
>
>That is simply untrue.
Given the WIDE range of job offers he's gotten, and that I know that he was
replaced for exactly that reason (he was milquetoast), I'd say your statement
is untrue.
At least in my OPINION.
My, how less antagontistic things are when things aren't so black and white and
they are opinion.
Sheesh!
Chuck
Randy Sweeney
IMO, he made that character a real human being... Kilner gave Boone life as
the man Boone was supposed to be.
Did we wanted him to party more? He could have hit on the babes more instead
of mourning for the loss of this wife. How about some take my wife please
jokes... that would have lightened him up some.
Kilner was Boone, and I liked him. In fact, I now know that seeing the
characters of Boone and Da'an unravel the tangle and solve the problems of
their own hearts was the basis for the entire show.
And when that died, the show flatlined.
not antagonism... but the burial bier of bitter berievement (now that was a
great show!)
Chuckosan wrote in message <19990126133905...@ng-fr1.aol.com>...
Troy_...@hotmail.com
chuc...@aol.com (Chuckosan) wrote:
> >> Kilner was a boring actor.
> >
> >That is simply untrue.
>
> Given the WIDE range of job offers he's gotten, and that I know that he was
> replaced for exactly that reason (he was milquetoast), I'd say your statement
> is untrue.
>
> At least in my OPINION.
I can see how you might think Kilner was a boring actor. He was restrained,
methodical, and contemplative in his role... in other words PERFECT for
someone who has to be a spy in the lion's den of Taelon headquarters.
In contrast, I can never imagine someone like Captain Kirk or Liam or Captain
Sheridan playing spies. They are too quick to act or speak, hence giving
themselves away. However, Commander Boone/Kilner was the perfect spy.
Troy
http://www.geocities.com/~videonovels
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
Chuckosan
>methodical, and contemplative in his role... in other words PERFECT for
>someone who has to be a spy in the lion's den of Taelon headquarters.
>
>In contrast, I can never imagine someone like Captain Kirk or Liam or Captain
>Sheridan playing spies. They are too quick to act or speak, hence giving
>themselves away. However, Commander Boone/Kilner was the perfect spy.
So basically Kilner had no range, much like Shatner, Leeshock and Tron.
I agree. It's amazing how a good actor, oh, like Connery, can play a spy that
can be subtle yet action oriented and emotional when the script called for
such.
It's all the same point. Kilner was a bad actor. Leeshock isn't much better,
but at least he's not bland. He's too over the top.
Again. Bad casting. Leads to worse writing.
Chuck
Phil Vincent
workman like job in the role of strong, silent type trying to be
true to himself when making that too visible would lead to his
death. As it did.
I really didn't appreciate his skills until catching him on _Rude
Awakening_ last fall. Just watching him play a raving queen
convincingly was a stitch.
________
Laugh, and the world laughs with you.
Snore, and you sleep alone.
________
On Mon, 1 Feb 1999 21:34:30, chuc...@aol.com (Chuckosan) wrote:
[snip]