Was killing off Beckett necessary?!
Gabrielle
that necessary for the series?! Sandoval (one of my favorite characters) now has no "human" companion
besides his interaction with Captain Marquette and Liam Kincaid. Granted..."Redemption" was a very
powerful episode...but was killing off Beckett that important? Unless I'm missing something here...but it
seems to me that only males carry the CVI's. (Sexist?) I don't know. Lisa Howard (congratulations on
the baby) is not going anywhere as a character. And I would DEARLY love it if she were given the CVI
and make her character alot more interesting. I'm hoping the producers and writers let her character get
one whether Lisa Howard likes it or not. Besides...I doubt actress Kari Matchett liked it when she read
the script for "Redemption" only to read that she's now unemployed.
Advice to producers of EFC....Give Lili Marquette a CVI and make her character far less predictable...
working for the Resistence or working for the Companions. She's the key...not Liam Kincaid. Bottom
Line: we need a new Siobhan Beckett. You killed off Beckett. Now do us the favor and give us another
one....Lili Marquette. Tu capisci?
ask...@home.com
producers wanted her, but it almost seemed to me like she could tell
where the show was going and decided to ababndone it. That probably
didn't actually happen, but oh well. And after that ep the shows got
consistently better.
Andy
himiko
> seems to me that only males carry the CVI's. (Sexist?) I don't know. Lisa Howard (congratulations on
> the baby) is not going anywhere as a character.
You aren't being petulant. The sexist overtones in the second season fairly
scream testosterone. At first I thought they were just trying to give Lisa a
break because of her pregnancy, but it's way beyond that. There has been a
real effort to turn any and all female characters, including the icily nasty
Dr. Park, into adoring little fluff bunnies to gaze upon the remarkable
exploits of Liam, boy macho wonder. I might add that when it became apparent
that this wasn't working [let's have a small round of applause here for male
SF fans who are less gullible this way than the norm; most of them didn't
care for Maya either on valid plot grounds], TPTB had no qualms about racing
a noticibly pregnant Lisa around the set at top speed. Good thing she's in
great shape.
And I would DEARLY love it if she were given the CVI
> and make her character alot more interesting. I'm hoping the producers and writers let her character get
> one whether Lisa Howard likes it or not.
I'm not so sure a CVI is such a good idea. Those things are ultimately
lethal, but then Lili has shown a willingness to die for her cause before.
With or without a CVI, I would like to see Howard back as a tough, dedicated
marine. There were hints of this in that episode where she turned Paul
Chandler in for the sake of the resistance. Now I'd like to see her take
over leadership of that resistance and show that little squirt, Liam, what
leadership and organization actually are.
Besides...I doubt actress Kari Matchett liked it when she read
> the script for "Redemption" only to read that she's now unemployed.
>
She isn't. She's now the lead on a Canadian series about hockey called
"Power Play." It sounds like a real turkey. This, however, is supposedly
the reason she quit EFC. It was her decision. I originally believed this
since a lead, no matter what kind, must be tempting, but I now doubt it in
the wake of Lisa's announcement that she wants to focus more on being a mom
and Leni's that she wants to become a mom. While I don't doubt that, it does
occur to me that the women are fleeing this show. Or maybe they're issuing
an ultimatum. Either way, I wouldn't take their statements at face value.
At the very least, they're saying that the roles they're being given aren't
worth sticking around for. And they're right.
> Advice to producers of EFC....Give Lili Marquette a CVI and make her character far less predictable...
> working for the Resistence or working for the Companions. She's the key...not Liam Kincaid. Bottom
> Line: we need a new Siobhan Beckett. You killed off Beckett. Now do us the favor and give us another
> one....Lili Marquette. Tu capisci?
>
No, I'm afraid they don't.
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
Ginko
>Actually, Kari went off to do her own show. I have a feeling the
>producers wanted her, but it almost seemed to me like she could tell
>where the show was going and decided to ababndone it. That probably
>didn't actually happen, but oh well. And after that ep the shows got
>consistently better.
Also could be she wanted a steady high profile role as opposed to an
occasional cameo. Could you blame her?
What show is she doing now?
arla...@zeus.ia.net
>Actually, Kari went off to do her own show. I have a feeling the
>producers wanted her, but it almost seemed to me like she could tell
>where the show was going and decided to ababndone it. That probably
>didn't actually happen, but oh well. And after that ep the shows got
>consistently better.
>
>Andy
>
I don't know if it is the producers' sexist attitudes or not. But I
have always hated Beckett since the first season. (And I doubt any
sexist attitudes have developed suddenly in the second season.) I know
I will get flamed for this next statement.
Maiya is a much more interesting character than Beckett; and it is
more than just sex appeal. But the premise of her character existence
is rediculous, and the actress who plays the character can't act. The
actress who played Beckett was a better; but it made Beckett's
character that much more annoying.
Gabrielle
You wrote such a thoughtful response to my gripe about the killing off of Siobhan Beckett that I thought
it would be appropriate to respond to it. I agree with almost everything you said about the direction EFC
is going in terms of it's female characters. I however disagree with your assessment that not giving Lili
the CVI is the appropriate thing to do. Remember that guy Boone, played by Kevin Kilner? I had my
gripes about him during the first season...because he was mugging the entire series and mostly because
I was sorry Lisa Howard wasn't getting enough air time. I still don't think she's getting enough air time...
but in light of her pregnancy...that's understandible. What's not understandible is the way the producers
are turning this into yet another version of the Boy's Club. Jonathan Doors, Augur, and now this surprisingly
insufferable Liam Kincaid. I'm really disappointed. Ironically, the more interesting characters turned out to
be Z'oors, D'aan, Sandoval, and the late lamented Siohban Beckett. Why ironic? Because 3 of the 4
characters are and now because Beckett has been killed off...2 of them played by women.
Interesting thought just came to my head...remember that excellent episode from the first season entitled
"Sandoval's Run"? Why don't the producers use the opportunity of Beckeet's death to begin a storyline
scenario of Sandoval's wife joining the Companion Protector program. Give Sandoval's wife a CVI (if you
insist Lili Marquette can't have one). This would instantly create a wonderful opportunity for Sandoval's
character to develop while bringing in another Siobhan Beckett into play. This scenario would allow
Sandoval's character to be more three dimensional...as he was in "Sandoval's Run". He won't be
relegated into just saying to Z'oors "Yes, Z'oors" over and over like a broken record.
As for the new actress they've brought in...just to give you an indication of how bad things I think are
getting...I don't even know her name. If TPTB think she's going to be some sort of quasi replacement
for Lisa Howard...then...forget it. Her character is so badly written...she makes Lisa Howard (who's not getting
much airtime anyway...whether because of her pregnancy, her decision for more time to be a mother to
her newborn, whatever) look like Athena to her modern day Hamlet's Ophelia. What a disgusting
turn of events. These new producers, writers are so testosterone driven it's making me choke. I'm
very surprised that Majel isn't putting her foot down and laying down the law. We're supposed to be
looking toward the 21st century..and all we get is 20th century Phillip Marlowe nonsense thanks to
the birth of this new "hero" Liam Kincaid. I'm sorry but I think they've blown it. If you're looking for a
21st century heroine...worthy of emulation and investing emotional attachment to...look no further than
Chris Carter's X Files which has actress Gillian Anderson (Emmy Award winner) Agent Dna Scully.
She is the only actress I know of in either television or big screen who is an intelligently written woman
we can care about (female and male). And Gillian Anderson has been doing Agent Scully for almost
7 years. Now there's a heroine. Unfortunately, I can't say the same of Lisa Howard...who I thought
would be getting far more airtime and meatier quality episodes after learning Kevin Kilner wasn't
coming back as Boone. And that's why I was hoping they'd let Lisa's character get a CVI...Boone
had the CVI...now why couldn't or why can't Lili Marquette get one too?
One final thought. Regarding actress Kate Mulgrew. She's been pretty much ignorned in the pop
culture even though she's the Captain in the Star Trek universe...the first and ONLY one so far...AND
she dared to make noise about wanting to leave....(more likely to rattle the cages of her producers
and get noticed more...which did bring attention to her causes, by the way.) I only wish Kari Matchett
Siohban Beckett had done the same thing...and maybe she wouldn't have been tempted to jump ship
to play the lead in the Canadian series "Power Play"...about of all things...hockey. My, my...how things
have improved for women these days. I can only pray for the upcoming release of Geoge Lucas'
Episode One - The Phantom Menace" will allow actress Natalie Portman to play a heroine for the
21st century. But I'm not holding my breath....it's about Obi Wan Kenobi, Anakin Skywalker. I would
be happy if the rumors are true that Boba Fett's character turns out to be Jodie Foster. That would
be fun. But...as luck would have it...people (no, let's make that men) are clemoring for Jackie Chan.
Things are even looking "up" for James Bond too. How about....hmmmm...oh yeah! bombshell
Denise Richards opposite Pierce Brosnan. If Lisa Howard really wanted to make a difference as
her character...she should boldly and openly declare how unhappy she is with her character and
women's characters on EFC in general. That would get her noticed very quickly a la Kate Mulgrew.
The final irony of Siobhan Beckett's death is that the episode was entitled "Redemption". The death
of a woman is called "Redemption"?! They should have entitled the episode based on Edgar Allen
Poe's famous quote...."The death of a beautiful woman is a work of art". And oh...before I forget...
Hillary Rodham Clinton won't be running for the Senate seat. Why? Because her husband ruined
her chances of ever getting elected. When men screw up...it's women who pay the price. Like
Lisa Howard and Kari Matchett.
Cathputer
>I don't know if it is the producers' sexist attitudes or not. But I
>have always hated Beckett since the first season. (And I doubt any
>sexist attitudes have developed suddenly in the second season.) I know
>I will get flamed for this next statement.
>
>Maiya is a much more interesting character than Beckett; and it is
>more than just sex appeal. But the premise of her character existence
>is rediculous, and the actress who plays the character can't act. The
>actress who played Beckett was a better; but it made Beckett's
>character that much more annoying.
>
It's funny, but I too have always hated the character of Beckett since I
first saw her. I thought the actress was okay as Ro'ha, but overacted in a big
way in her role as Beckett. I also hated her accent, and thought it was fakey.
I know there were pros and cons on this when she first acted as Beckett. I
thought she took away from season one. Consequently, in season two, I couldn't
stand the episode "Redemption", and didn't feel sorry for her at all. I also
thought they would give her better dialogue since this was her swan act. The
only thing I liked about the episode was that I knew she wasn't coming back. I
read as soon as it was posted here why she left.
I won't flame you for saying that Maiya was a much more interesting
character, but I disagree with you. You say that the premise of her character
existence was ridiculous, and I agree with you that that's exactly what it was,
that she came to our world after her husband, the leader of the group there
dies, and they need her there more than ever, and it's obvious they are losing
and dying in large numbers against the Taelons since they are unorganized, and
Jason tells her to go to the other world to take care of Liam? Ridiculous is
the exact word, Liam isn't even all human, he has powers, and someone from a
primitive world is going to watch over him instead of staying where she is
desperately needed? A much better intro for a female lead would be that someone
new joined the Resistance. The idea of Maiya and Sandoval being attracted to
each other, especially that she knew what he did for a living, and hated the
Taelons so much was asinine. So what, he "looked" like Jason? His personality
was totally opposite. That story line was not credible, and had nowhere to go.
You're also right in that she can't act her way out of a paper bag. The outfits
she wore were ridiculous, and made season 2 even more unbearable. So if I agree
with you, how can you say she was an interesting character :)? What was
interesting?
Now "I'll" probably get flamed but I don't even like Lisa Howard in season
2. She was okay when she had a smaller role, but JIMO, she can't handle the
bigger role in S2. She is a one note character, a toughie, and that's all she
can play. I didn't even like her acting in "Bliss" and I liked the episode.
Believe it or not, I thought Liam acted better in that ep. He was more
understated, and has become so in later episodes. A Canadian friend sent me a
synopsis for the episode "Hijacked", and he seems understated in that one as
well
As for those who thought KK was wooden, I thought he acted the part
perfectly, and it seems as though TPTB are trying to tone Liam down, and make
him more like the KK Boone.
Getting back on track, I hate to say this, but the only females I think
are great actors are Leni and especially Anita blossomed this season, she
handled her bigger role quite well, as did Von, but unfortunately the two
actresses aren't playing females, but aliens. My friend also told me about the
cliffhanger at the end of the season, and I hope it's an opportunity to get
some desperately needed female leads in EFC, and have them play humans! I would
like to see at least three :)! There could be a Resistance member, a Taelon
supporter in some way, and a third neutral member, maybe someone working at the
Flat Planet Cafe. I know there could be a better character than that, though. I
can think of another character for a large role, an aide to Jonathan Doors,
since his son seems to have taken a shuttle, and went ID, and is still there
;). Any ideas on this?
One more thing, bring back KK! I looked at "Miracle" to answer one of those
trivia quiz questions correctly, and if anyone thinks KK is wooden, and has
this on tape, watch it! Also watch the scene with him and Zo'or in "Through the
Looking Glass" where he gets in his face, the episode "Truth", or a million
scenes with Da'an. He was a perfect actor, and that's not opinon, but fact :).
I saw him in one other role, Mike on "Almost Perfect ", and he was perfect
there also, playing comedy.
Sorry to go on so long, it's a good thing I don't post often :). Any ideas
about female leads?
Cath
himiko
>
> Interesting thought just came to my head...remember that excellent episode from the first season entitled
> "Sandoval's Run"? Why don't the producers use the opportunity of Beckeet's death to begin a storyline
> scenario of Sandoval's wife joining the Companion Protector program. Give Sandoval's wife a CVI (if you
> insist Lili Marquette can't have one). This would instantly create a wonderful opportunity for Sandoval's
> character to develop while bringing in another Siobhan Beckett into play. This scenario would allow
> Sandoval's character to be more three dimensional...as he was in "Sandoval's Run". He won't be
> relegated into just saying to Z'oors "Yes, Z'oors" over and over like a broken record.
I love this idea. DeeDee Sandoval would also bring another badly needed
component to the series: a civilian. OK, I know not everyone is military,
but they're all something special: a major, a captain, a
millionaire/presidential candidate, a world class hacker and fence, two
famous doctors. Even Sandoval was FBI to start with. DeeDee, from what we
know, was just an ordinary woman until the Taelons turned her world upside
down. I'd love to hear her take on all this. Da'an could benefit from
hearing from this segment of the population too - assuming she's willing to
speak to him after what he did to her husband and thereby to her!
One problem though: do we really want to risk a marital argument between two
people equipped with skrills?
Cathputer
Cathputer
here, so I thought aol screwed up, and I resent it.
Cath
PkJ0891
writes:
>What's not understandible is the way the producers
>are turning this into yet another version of the Boy's Club. Jonathan Doors,
>Augur, and now this surprisingly
>insufferable Liam Kincaid. I'm really disappointed.
>
I'm disappointed too, but not surprised at all, given the target audience. The
producers perceive that the young male demo wants a lot of action, FX, and
buddy-movie stuff. I could come up with some obvious examples which prove this
wrong, but it's a stereotype that's been around for ages. If you have an
action/adventure or science fiction show, any women on the program take a back
seat to the "guy" stuff.
>Give
>Sandoval's wife a CVI (if you
>insist Lili Marquette can't have one). This would instantly create a
>wonderful opportunity for Sandoval's
>character to develop while bringing in another Siobhan Beckett into play.
>This scenario would allow
>Sandoval's character to be more three dimensional...as he was in "Sandoval's
>Run". He won't be
>relegated into just saying to Z'oors "Yes, Z'oors" over and over like a
>broken record.
>
A great idea, which might resolve some of the character problems I have with
Sandoval. I think I've been resistant to the idea of Lili having a CVI because
she's been portrayed so often as being violently opposed to receiving one. If
they could write a coherent scenario that led to her change of mind (doubtful),
I wouldn't be against it on principle.
>If you're looking for a
>21st century heroine...worthy of emulation and investing emotional attachment
>to...look no further than
>Chris Carter's X Files which has actress Gillian Anderson (Emmy Award winner)
>Agent Dna Scully.
>She is the only actress I know of in either television or big screen who is
>an intelligently written woman
>we can care about (female and male). And Gillian Anderson has been doing
>Agent Scully for almost
>7 years. Now there's a heroine.
>
This is a problem endemic to Hollywood. We had Melissa Leo on Homicide (hardly
an action show), but she's history. Most of the writers are men, and they seem
to be lacking any creativity when it comes to writing strong women. The
character of Rayna had much potential, I thought, to be an integral part of the
Resistance, but the writers thought she'd make a better Gobot. Even Katya
would've been a good addition. It wasn't necessary to write her as being the
one who broke into the Commonality. In fact, I thought it was unclear at the
end whether she was, indeed, the human invader, with all those red balls
amassing outside the Commonality. However, it *was* her, so she had to killed
off. But Katya had a quiet strength of purpose and integrity that would've
proved far superior to the silly, scatter-brained Maiya. And if the producers
were looking for a babe quotient, I thought the actress who played Katya was an
extremely attractive woman, unlike Maiya who was cute in a Valley Girl sorta
way.
>One final thought. Regarding actress Kate Mulgrew. She's been pretty much
>ignorned in the pop
>culture even though she's the Captain in the Star Trek universe...the first
>and ONLY one so far...AND
>she dared to make noise about wanting to leave....(more likely to rattle the
>cages of her producers
>and get noticed more...which did bring attention to her causes, by the way.)
Ignoring the problem that the writers wrote Janeway as pretty boring, I had a
problem with Mulgrew's acting. She brought her voice down into a whisper too
often. She seemed to get stuck in vocal and facial tricks, which got to be
annoying. Since adding 7 of 9, the interplay between these two has been the
only thing holding my interest in the show. I thought I'd hate Jerri Ryan, but
38 of DD can act, much to my surprise. Perhaps if the other characters on the
show had been better written, they wouldn't have needed to bring a Borg on
board to liven up Janeway. I can't argue with you about the character issues
with Janeway, but I think some of the blame falls on Mulgrew, for not initially
doing more with Janeway and for not speaking up earlier. It's a little late
now.
>I can only pray for the upcoming release
>of Geoge Lucas'
>Episode One - The Phantom Menace" will allow actress Natalie Portman to play
>a heroine for the
>21st century. But I'm not holding my breath
I'm not much of a Star Wars fan. The one I'm really curious about is the
proposed Terminator 3. From what I've read, it's actually back on the drawing
board. What are they going to do without Linda Hamilton? I bet it'll end up
being completely a guy flick, with Arnie and Eddie and some New Kid on the
Block.
PKJ
TV doesn't have to be dumb. You can have a voice. If you want to be part of
the alternative TV ratings system, please check out Viewers for Quality
Television http://www.vqt.org
Ha`gel
<19990321170009...@ngol04.aol.com>:
I agree with most of your points about Maiya. But she obviously was
revolted by Sandoval's appearance at first, and there were some
things done in the episode "Isabel" to improve the premise of her
character. They merged her with an anthropologist by the name of
Isabel. I think this episode was made to correct mistakes that were
made with "Dimension." I am beginning to think that Maiya may not be
more interesting, but rather less annoying than Beckett; tho she does
come a world that is different from Beckett's.
> Now "I'll" probably get flamed but I don't even like Lisa Howard in
> season
>2. She was okay when she had a smaller role, but JIMO, she can't handle
>the bigger role in S2. She is a one note character, a toughie, and
>that's all she can play. I didn't even like her acting in "Bliss" and I
>liked the episode. Believe it or not, I thought Liam acted better in
>that ep. He was more understated, and has become so in later episodes. A
>Canadian friend sent me a synopsis for the episode "Hijacked", and he
>seems understated in that one as well
>
> As for those who thought KK was wooden, I thought he acted the part
>perfectly, and it seems as though TPTB are trying to tone Liam down, and
>make him more like the KK Boone.
>
I don't think they are trying to make him like Boone at all, and to
do so is obviously a mistake. I think Liam is an interesting
character which should have been introduced in Season 3. What I don't
understand is why they have tried to make some his actions more
humorous. I think if they make his character naive, then he should
very naive things which make his estimated 100 days of life
experience obvious.
> Getting back on track, I hate to say this, but the only females I
> think
>are great actors are Leni and especially Anita blossomed this season,
>she handled her bigger role quite well, as did Von, but unfortunately
>the two actresses aren't playing females, but aliens. My friend also
>told me about the cliffhanger at the end of the season, and I hope it's
>an opportunity to get some desperately needed female leads in EFC, and
>have them play humans! I would like to see at least three :)! There
>could be a Resistance member, a Taelon supporter in some way, and a
>third neutral member, maybe someone working at the Flat Planet Cafe. I
>know there could be a better character than that, though. I can think of
>another character for a large role, an aide to Jonathan Doors, since his
>son seems to have taken a shuttle, and went ID, and is still there ;).
>Any ideas on this?
>
I think they are trying to do that with this new ressistance female
that we don't know much about. It should give more time that awful
actress who I don't know the name of more time to pratice her lines
and acting. I really hope they continue down the route of aiming at
DS9 demographic of an all young male audience. Nothing shows this
mentality more than what they did with the character of Rayna. In
"The Scarecrow Returns", it is implied that Sahjit is hitting on her
to hard. She always left early. Then they kill her twice, and
introduce Liam Kincaid who is not mature like Boone is. I don't think
Liam always acts immature, but this is compounded by the immature
behavior Augur who is much worse. So when I think about it, I know
why people are upset by this. Liam may be bad for ratings. But too
much Augur is downright lethal with the older audience.
> One more thing, bring back KK! I looked at "Miracle" to answer one
> of those
>trivia quiz questions correctly, and if anyone thinks KK is wooden, and
>has this on tape, watch it! Also watch the scene with him and Zo'or in
>"Through the Looking Glass" where he gets in his face, the episode
>"Truth", or a million scenes with Da'an. He was a perfect actor, and
>that's not opinon, but fact :). I saw him in one other role, Mike on
>"Almost Perfect ", and he was perfect there also, playing comedy.
>
I agree the KK is a very good actor, but I still think Leeshock is a
better actor for a series like this. It would be mistake to kill off
his character before the enemy of the Jaridians and Taelons starts to
invade earth.
line noise
>
> It's funny, but I too have always hated the character of Beckett
> since I first saw her. I thought the actress was okay as Ro'ha, but
> overacted in a big way in her role as Beckett.
Beckett left me cold. She always seemed to be driven by emotion, (which
is OK... for a reptile) and her "enhanced intuition" did not seem to
make her a better sluth or more dextrous at overcoming the adverse
effects of her CVI's MI. In short i thought of Beckett as a bimbo.
> I won't flame you for saying that Maiya was a much more interesting
> character, but I disagree with you.
If i thought Beckett was a bimbo just imagin what i thought of Maiya!
Every time i saw this charicter i was left thinking "Is it the stupidity
that couses the anorexia or is it the anorexia that couses the
stupidity?"
> Now "I'll" probably get flamed but I don't even like Lisa Howard in
> season 2. She was okay when she had a smaller role, but JIMO, she can't
> handle the bigger role in S2. She is a one note character, a toughie, and
> that's all she can play.
Sadly true, and even more sad is that they won't let her play a toughie
character. She should be covertly ripping a shuttle apart. She and Auger
should be reverse-(g)enginearing the thing; him softwhare, her
hardwhare. She should be training squadrens of poilets for ID
Dog-fights. She should be a combo of a no-nonsence grease-monkey, a
caculating tacktishion, a close coarters bazzerker and a just bairly
controled seathing volcano of rage. Over time we would/should find out
why she is this way. Then her charicter could (pick one) die in a
fashion that befits her personality (go out with a BANG), expierence a
searies of carthartic or healing events and chainge her nature (grup hug
everyone...) or she could go on in the twisted way she has as a kind of
damed arcktype. But as the Lilly charicter is writen now she is just a
winning wimp - all talk no action.
> I hate to say this, but the only females I think
> are great actors are Leni and especially Anita blossomed this season, she
> handled her bigger role quite well, as did Von, but unfortunately the two
> actresses aren't playing females, but aliens.
When a female is not forced to play the part of what a man thinks a
female is then they can get some verry interesting parts. I have always
thought Leni's acting was perfection! Zo'or was devoloping some complex
charicter traits in season 1 but Anita odvous skill is not needed in
season 2's simplafied Zo'or.
<snip>
>There could be a <female> Resistance member,
Why not?! (oops i forgot about schovinisum, thats why not.)
>a Taelon supporter in some way,
Pres. Tomson might get shot and his female VP might have to run against
Doors. (Hay, an evil female... TPTB would love that!)
>and a third neutral member, maybe someone working at the
> Flat Planet Cafe.
A pesant! You want a lowly comminor to have a part on a SF show?
Have you lost you mind!?!? TV SF is about techno-military top-dogs! It
is not about peaple! Realy I am flaber-gasted!! Next thing you'll be
sugesting strong female charicters...
>
> Sorry to go on so long, it's a good thing I don't post often :). Any
> ideas about female leads?
>
> Cath
Raina tranmited her self to Auger as "bio-molecqular code" (or some such
techno-bable) While they could not manufacture a boddy for her that
could pass as human the resistance could use the code to creat a
cyber-Raina to act as "living" software which infiltrats the tealon
computer systims.
The Tealons use bio-gengineared life forms as tools. Human/resistance
biologists would study this science and devlop there own tools. Medicin
and Biology are sciences dominated by wimen. Hay, maybe in time the
resistance could genginer a seawead that "bloomes" an army of Rainas.
After all they have her mind on disk, or swirling through the net at
least.
Perhaps the same genginering could be used to modify earth animils. The
resistance has problems getting recutes now. If they took a dog and
tinkered whith its genes they might make a human-ish formed "gard dog"
to act as front line cannon foder. Start whith man's best friend add
some tealon biogenginearing and boos it whith a modified CVI and you
have one hell of an unpredictible varible. The resistance would ofcourse
make a prototype to evaluate the feasibility of this plan. Wonce they
had made her just how would she view her creaters and there bitch of a
plan to have her young littered across the battel field?
line noise
> In article <36f552e...@news.cyburban.com>, us...@somewhere.com
> (Gabrielle) writes:
>
> > I'm really disappointed.
> >
>
> I'm disappointed too, but not surprised at all, given the target audience.
> The producers perceive that the young male demo wants a lot of action, FX,
> and buddy-movie stuff.
On the topic of giving somone a CVI i think it is the writers not the
female charicters that need a brain boost! Ms. Sanderval should work for
the resistance but Mr. Sandervol should not know that. He should
continue to think she is dead. That way her sodden appierence at the
correct time can have a caculated effect on him. It will alsow produce
tention as Ms. watches Mr. scheem and plot, trying to second gess her
hosband and alsow trying to enshoure that the resistance does not kill
him. If Sigourny Weavers charicter can perseveir whith out a CVI then so
can Lesa Howerds.
> This is a problem endemic to Hollywood. We had Melissa Leo on Homicide
> (hardly an action show), but she's history. Most of the writers are men,
> and they seem to be lacking any creativity when it comes to writing strong
> women. The character of Rayna had much potential, I thought, to be an
> integral part of the Resistance, but the writers thought she'd make a
> better Gobot. Even Katya would've been a good addition. It wasn't
> necessary to write her as being the one who broke into the Commonality.
> In fact, I thought it was unclear at the end whether she was, indeed, the
> human invader, with all those red balls amassing outside the Commonality.
> However, it *was* her, so she had to killed off. But Katya had a quiet
> strength of purpose and integrity that would've proved far superior to the
> silly, scatter-brained Maiya. And if the producers were looking for a
> babe quotient, I thought the actress who played Katya was an extremely
> attractive woman, unlike Maiya who was cute in a Valley Girl sorta way.
I think strong indipendent wimen frighten the target audience...
Charicters whos existance ingender thought frighten the target
audience...
I think the target audience is small and alread taken by "Buffy" and
"Herk"
I think the target audience is mostly in the imaginations of TPTB.
Maybe there is a simpler explanation for the lack of good female
charicters on the show ... maybe TPTB are sexist. Why is the lead
charicter a S.W.M.(whith no axcent)? It is probably a simple case of
sexist racest homophibiac amaircan empearilisum or a gutless appeasment
of the masses precieved worst commen features (ie that the masses are
sexist , racest ect..). Perhaps there are no good female parts becouse
if thay write a good part they (un?)thinkly give the part to a man. If
all the good parts go to men what does that leave the wimen?
David Samuel Barr
>
> One final thought. Regarding actress Kate Mulgrew. She's been pretty
> much ignorned in the pop culture even though she's the Captain in the
> Star Trek universe...the first and ONLY one so far
This is a complete myth. There had been numerous female captains,
admirals, etc in ST:TNG and DS9, as well as in most of the movies, long
before anyone ever thought of making Voyager. Mulgrew was only the
first woman to have lead credit on a series, and Paramount's PR people
pushed this heavily when pushing Voyager prior to its premiere, since
the show itself had little innovative to recommend it.
> ...AND she dared to make noise about wanting to leave....(more likely
> to rattle the cages of her producers and get noticed more...which did
> bring attention to her causes, by the way.)
What "causes"? Her only reason for making the noise was the same one
that various other ST actors have done over the years: money.
Reportedly, she also is as bored with the role as she has made the
viewers, in which case few people will be distressed if she exits the
series early. They've already "killed her off" a few times, including
in the episode a few weeks ago with the duplicate Voyager, so it's only
a question of what gimmick will be used to make it official, and whether
the series will continue without her or whether they'll actually pull
the plug as they should have done long ago rather than artificially
stretch it out for the same seven years as TNG and DS9.
> And oh...before I forget... Hillary Rodham Clinton won't be running
> for the Senate seat. Why? Because her husband ruined her chances of
> ever getting elected. When men screw up...it's women who pay the
> price. Like Lisa Howard and Kari Matchett.
Oh, puh-lease. Hillary won't run for the NY Senate seat for three
reasons. 1) It's a blatant act of carpetbagging; she has no ties to
New York other than periodically showing up in Manhattan to raise money
for her husband or the DNC from the same wealthy liberals against whom
her party calls for ongoing class warfare; 2) There are laws in New
York which impose certain residency and other requirements she can't
meet on political candidates (just to avoid this kind of carpetbagging;
by the way, have you noticed it's a **New Jersey** congressman who keeps
loudly claiming credit for starting the whole idea?); 3) despite her
New York City following, she'd be clobbered in the rest of the state.
No question that her husband's behaviour is despicable on every count,
but it's actually given her a misplaced martyrdom that is the primary
basis for her current upsurge in popularity (vs where it was five years
ago); that still won't be enough to give her the power she craves.
ask...@home.com
are sexist against men.
Andy
line noise wrote:
>
> PkJ0891 <pkj...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> > In article <36f552e...@news.cyburban.com>, us...@somewhere.com
> > (Gabrielle) writes:
> >
> > > I'm really disappointed.
> > >
> >
> > I'm disappointed too, but not surprised at all, given the target audience.
> > The producers perceive that the young male demo wants a lot of action, FX,
> > and buddy-movie stuff.
>
> On the topic of giving somone a CVI i think it is the writers not the
> female charicters that need a brain boost! Ms. Sanderval should work for
> the resistance but Mr. Sandervol should not know that. He should
> continue to think she is dead. That way her sodden appierence at the
> correct time can have a caculated effect on him. It will alsow produce
> tention as Ms. watches Mr. scheem and plot, trying to second gess her
> hosband and alsow trying to enshoure that the resistance does not kill
> him. If Sigourny Weavers charicter can perseveir whith out a CVI then so
> can Lesa Howerds.
>
> > This is a problem endemic to Hollywood. We had Melissa Leo on Homicide
> > (hardly an action show), but she's history. Most of the writers are men,
> > and they seem to be lacking any creativity when it comes to writing strong
> > women. The character of Rayna had much potential, I thought, to be an
> > integral part of the Resistance, but the writers thought she'd make a
> > better Gobot. Even Katya would've been a good addition. It wasn't
> > necessary to write her as being the one who broke into the Commonality.
> > In fact, I thought it was unclear at the end whether she was, indeed, the
> > human invader, with all those red balls amassing outside the Commonality.
> > However, it *was* her, so she had to killed off. But Katya had a quiet
> > strength of purpose and integrity that would've proved far superior to the
> > silly, scatter-brained Maiya. And if the producers were looking for a
> > babe quotient, I thought the actress who played Katya was an extremely
> > attractive woman, unlike Maiya who was cute in a Valley Girl sorta way.
>
Supertimer
>Gabrielle wrote:
>>
>> One final thought. Regarding actress Kate Mulgrew. She's been pretty
>> much ignorned in the pop culture even though she's the Captain in the
>> Star Trek universe...the first and ONLY one so far
>
>This is a complete myth. There had been numerous female captains,
>admirals, etc in ST:TNG and DS9, as well as in most of the movies, long
>before anyone ever thought of making Voyager. Mulgrew was only the
>first woman to have lead credit on a series, and Paramount's PR people
>pushed this heavily when pushing Voyager prior to its premiere, since
>the show itself had little innovative to recommend it.
Voyager's story lines have become better and better. I agree that
they were pretty bad at the beginning, but since then they've
become more and more like classic Trek (TOS & TNG), complete
with Borg, time loops, and alternate universes.
>What "causes"? Her only reason for making the noise was the same one
>that various other ST actors have done over the years: money.
>Reportedly, she also is as bored with the role as she has made the
>viewers, in which case few people will be distressed if she exits the
>series early. They've already "killed her off" a few times, including
>in the episode a few weeks ago with the duplicate Voyager, so it's only
>a question of what gimmick will be used to make it official, and whether
>the series will continue without her or whether they'll actually pull
>the plug as they should have done long ago rather than artificially
>stretch it out for the same seven years as TNG and DS9.
The quality of DS9, meanwhile, has declined. No wonder they
have to end the series. I also can't believe how bad the reruns
of the first few seasons of TNG were. They only got it right
after the Borg showed up.
Faced with reruns of early TNG and DS9, I'd rather see Voyager
any day.
SmkMirrors
>I'm
>very surprised that Majel isn't putting her foot down and laying down the law
Being testosterone driven has nothing to do with the direction of the new
producers. The new producers are money driven, pure and simple.
>.Boone
>had the CVI...now why couldn't or why can't Lili Marquette get one too?
Uh,Hello? Possibly because it is totally against her character.
>One final thought. Regarding actress Kate Mulgrew. She's been pretty much
>ignorned in the pop
>culture even though she's the Captain in the Star Trek
Thats because Kate Mulgrew *and* Voyagerare both flat out awful. Voyager is
the show that may single handedly break both UPN and the Franchise.
>And oh...before I forget...
>Hillary Rodham Clinton won't be running for the Senate seat. Why? Because
>her husband ruined
>her chances of ever getting elected.
Bzzt. Wrong answer. The correct anwser is because she is not qualified to be a
Senator. But that's a non E:FC topic.
> When men screw up...it's women who pay
>the price. Like
>Lisa Howard and Kari Matchett.
That's so sexist it needs no reply.
line noise
> I have a feeling that if the lead was female we'de be saying that TPTB
> are sexist against men.
>
> Andy
>
But the number of peaple that would say that, and the degree of
justifacation for saying that would depend on how that lead female was
writen.
If she where writen like a "buffy" or a "Xena" then yes; the cries of
sexisum would be more numorous and more justified then if the lead where
like "Alain", "Prime Suspect", "VR5" or "Comma" or for that matter if
the lead where writen like -he- is writen in "DaVinchy's Inquest", "It
Takes a Thief", "Cracker" or "Highlander".
Each of these leads has a sexual component (every person has a sexual
component) but in some of them thair sex and sexuality is incorparated
into the fiction in an opropreat and believable way. In others the
sexuality has been exzagerated and labored upon to the point that the
charictor has been tranformed into a fetish opject.
Lame was given all the standerd atrabutes that are suposet to make men
want to be him; an exotic past, an adventorus life, a leadership role,
the adoration and/or lust of ALL his friends, incompatent enimies and
the chance to be a HERO and save the human race. In short a male
mastabatory fantcy. The problem is that Lame has not doen aneything to
earn adoration from the viewers (unlike Boon!) and Lame is not 'hunky'
or 'cutey' enough to engender much lust. It takes too great a willing
suspention of disbeliefe for most peaple to place themselves in Lame's
place (whith out feeling silly) and thus the lead just does not work.
The unrealistic depiction of the Lead results in a simmilar and nessary
distortion of the supporting cast; ie. they must become iether
incompatant or addoring. The distortions of the female supporting cast
includes additions and deleations to there sexual portrail. They gain
sexy outfits, they lose decicevness. They gain parels (from which they
can be resqued), they lose there own agenda. Such a portrail of wimen is
sexist. For the same reason the portrail of the male supporting cast
and "Xena" and "Buffy" is sexist.
Ma`el
Entertainment is. She sold the rights for "Gene Roddenberry's Earth: Final
Conflict" to Tribune. She's cited as a producer, but she's a producer at
Kirshner-Roddenberry Productions, not at Tribune. Tribune = TPTB.
So the only thing that's going to feel the effect of her "putting her foot down"
is the nearest floorboard.
SmkMirrors wrote:
> >These new producers, writers are so testosterone driven it's making me choke.
> >I'm
> >very surprised that Majel isn't putting her foot down and laying down the law
>
> Being testosterone driven has nothing to do with the direction of the new
> producers. The new producers are money driven, pure and simple.
>
"Boone... has an uncanny ability to sense when we are lying to him."
Horosco
I hope you won't mind, but I'm going to paraphrase what you said that
I am responding to. I couldn't find a short enough snipit.
> [Jason told Maiya to go with Liam even though she was needed there]
>[Why would Maiya be attracted to Sandoval? Sure he looks like Jason,
>but that's no reason]
Recall, if you will, that Sandoval saw, somehow, some of Jason's
existance. I beleive that there was a reason for that, and it will be
revealed later on. I won't go into it here, unless someone really
begs me, as I don't want to spoil it for anyone. But, if what I think
is true, then everything is very plausible, and not rediculous in the
least.
Horosco
>scenario of Sandoval's wife joining the Companion Protector program. Give Sandoval's wife a CVI (if you
>insist Lili Marquette can't have one).
Uh, then Sandoval would know that she was still alive. Remember,
Sandoval thinks she is dead. That would cause a lot of problems.
>now why couldn't or why can't Lili Marquette get one too?
Uh, because she would rather die than have one?
Horosco
>One problem though: do we really want to risk a marital argument between two
>people equipped with skrills?
There are considerably more problems with this, as Boone has
supposedly killed her, as far as Sandoval knows. And since she is
dead, the marriage was desolved, so there can't be any marital
arguments at all. :)
himiko
But she isn't dead, whatever Sandoval may currently believe, so the
suggestion that she be brought back is perfectly possible. I agree there are
some real questions such as whether or not she would take Sandy back, whether
or not he is now even remotely the man she married, whether she would agree
to work with the Taelons and/or whether she would ever agree to a scrill and
CVI after seeing what it did to her husband. All this could make for great
episodes.
The key to good theater, after all, isn't avoiding problems or even solving
them. It's portraying them in all their complexity.
I do agree though, that bringing DeeDee back as a resistance member would
work equally well and might be more plausible. She certainly has more
reasons than most to work against the Taelons.
Mark C. Hunter
Mark...
Horosco
>But she isn't dead, whatever Sandoval may currently believe, so the
>suggestion that she be brought back is perfectly possible.
But not as a companion protector, which is what the post I was
replying to suggested. Remember the circumstances. As far as we
know, Boone's connection with the Liberation was never found out. If
it is revealed that Sandoval's wife is indeed alive, that would put
suspicions on Boone, and everything he ever did. Every person he ever
had contact with would be scrutinized. Not a very good idea.
>I do agree though, that bringing DeeDee back as a resistance member would
>work equally well and might be more plausible.
I agree that is a good idea, as long as she is never seen by anyone
outside of the Liberation.
himiko
Hor...@netscape.net (Horosco) wrote:
> On Wed, 24 Mar 1999 19:30:47 GMT, himiko <le...@digiconn.com> wrote:
>
> >But she isn't dead, whatever Sandoval may currently believe, so the
> >suggestion that she be brought back is perfectly possible.
>
> But not as a companion protector, which is what the post I was
> replying to suggested. Remember the circumstances. As far as we
> know, Boone's connection with the Liberation was never found out. If
> it is revealed that Sandoval's wife is indeed alive, that would put
> suspicions on Boone, and everything he ever did. Every person he ever
> had contact with would be scrutinized. Not a very good idea.
I agree it's not a terribly good idea, but then making Liam Da'an's protector
wasn't a good idea either and that didn't stop them. DeeDee would have the
same problem as Liam. She'd be using a fake ID and exposing that to the
scrutiny a companion protector gets would be a very bad idea. It is a very
bad idea where Liam is concerned and a major plot hole. But if Taelon
security is so bad that Liam can escape detection despite having no real
background, living in a known resistance hangout and yelling "I'm resistance"
at unfriendly talk show hosts, I see no reason why DeeDee shouldn't. Unless
her husband turned her in, of course. That doesn't seem very likely, but
he's somewhat less than sane, so who knows.
> >I do agree though, that bringing DeeDee back as a resistance member would
> >work equally well and might be more plausible.
>
> I agree that is a good idea, as long as she is never seen by anyone
> outside of the Liberation.
On the contrary. One major reason for bringing her back would be to have her
seen by Sandoval. I'm not sure what his reaction would be, but it would
certainly stir things up.
Dr. Walter Van Eato
characters, but Kari Manchett had a conflict with another show.
Paula Baisley
> another show, the character did not have to be written off as dead.
> Any number of ways of dealing with the actresses absence could have
> been used, up to and including just not writing her in.
I agree that that's the way they should have handled it, but it was not
TPTB that made the decision. It was Kari Matchett who decided that she
did not want to return to EFC. When she originally took the role, it
was with the understanding that it would only be the one episode.
That's the way she wanted it.
Paula
Horosco
>I agree it's not a terribly good idea, but then making Liam Da'an's protector
>wasn't a good idea either and that didn't stop them. ... It is a very
>bad idea where Liam is concerned and a major plot hole.
Well, remember, the whole reason Zo'or didn't protest, was that he
wants Da'an out of the way. That's why no one has really checked up
on Liam. Remember, Zo'or positively exudes confidence that mere
humans can't beat him. Besides, Auger, being the excelent hacker he
is, wouldn't be apt to make a mistake that would get Liam killed.
>living in a known resistance hangout and yelling "I'm resistance"
>at unfriendly talk show hosts
What known resistance hangout is Liam living in? What unfriendly talk
show host has Liam yelled "I'm resistance" at? Maybe I missed those
episodes...
>Unless her husband turned her in, of course. That doesn't seem very
>likely, but he's somewhat less than sane, so who knows.
If he doesn't, then every other person working directly for the
Taelons would. Boone killed her to win back Sandoval, I'm quite sure
everyone working around the Taelons would notice her walk in. Unless
of course some major plastic surgery were done...
>On the contrary. One major reason for bringing her back would be to have her
>seen by Sandoval. I'm not sure what his reaction would be, but it would
>certainly stir things up.
And would most likely end the Liberation right then and there.