OT: Philosophy of 'Choosing Sides'
TrekNoid
into why people think I don't "choose sides", when I actually do...
Feel free to pass it by if you're not into philosophical ramblings :)
Today, coming home from picking up my son from his grandparents, I was talking
with my wife about the newsgroup. She often sits with me when I go through the
messages, and when she saw an earlier reply I made to Jen about 'choosing
sides'. Driving home, she asked me a question that floored me... "So, which
side *are* you on?"
I was dumbfounded... then confused... then realization dawned on me... Once
again, she had asked me a question that while not exactly rhetorical, it was at
least designed to point out something obviously overlooked.
Where I think Jen, and sometimes Shelly, misses the mark on me is that they see
their battle as 'The Battle', and all the newsgroup participants line up on one
side or the other.
Truth is, *that* battle is *not* my battle... so I *don't* choose sides...
because there is *no side* for me...
In fact, the Jen vs. ATDOOL war doesn't even rate as an issue for me... *My*
battle, is that I chose a side in the 'newsgroup behavior' war... At times I've
spoken out against Bonbon... I've spoken out against Shelly... I've spoken out
against *many* folks who I thought were out-of-line in their behaviors in the
group.
For Jen, unless I choose to 'take a side', I'm wishy-washy... but for me to
choose a side in *her* battle, would be to give up my position in *mine*.
The reality is, I don't like the antagonist nature of *any* of the posters in
the 'Jen vs. ATDOOL' war... I don't care for any of it... Not BonBon's... not
Shelly's... not Matt's... not Jen's...
Like 790, I get a sense of dread every time I come to the newsgroup... I just
*know* someone's going to be lobbing the next sortie, and I know I'm gonna have
to watch the blood run...
I'm fighting my own battle... If that makes me wishy-washy in someone else's
battle, then that's just the way it has to be...
I have a friend who is a big gun rights advocate. He is constantly amazed that
I'm not concerned about legislation that might restrict gun ownership. I can't
seem to get through his head that it's *not* an issue for me... I don't really
care one way or the other because it won't affect my *personal* decisions
either way.
I feel the same way about abortion... It's not *my* issue... The laws regarding
abortion won't change my *personal* decisions one way or the other. They may
come into play in the life of my wife someday... or in the life of my son's
girlfriend/life... but I don't really have any right restricting someone else's
personal decisions with my philosophical one.
There's even the basic misunderstanding about 'sides' to begin with... Some
people think of sides as competing identities, Saxons vs. Normans... Jews vs.
Christians... North vs. South... They *aren't*... I see sides like a coin...
Heads vs. Tails... Front vs. Back... Yin vs. Yang...
A coin isn't in conflict... it merely has two sides... It's external forces
that force it to come up head or tails... It doesn't 'choose' either one...
Sometimes it falls on heads... sometimes it falls on tails...
Well, that's the way I see 'sides'... Sometimes the way the issue is brought
forward will bring me on the 'heads' side... sometimes the way the issue is
brought forward will bring me on the 'tails' side...
But neither side has any meaning without the other.
So... if I appear wishy-washy on things, understand that it's because I make
each decision in life much the way a coin does... depending on the
circumstances that forced it into making the decision.
One thing is definately for certain, though... I *obviously* could care less
about the 'popularity' of what I do... If I cared about being popular, I'd jump
on the 'bash Jen' bandwagon and never look back... I'd have never publically
criticized Bonbon and Shelly during their 'faux' battle.
When you support the unpopular person, and openly criticize the popular one...
you're not doing it for the popularity...
Thanks for the rambling space...
Danny
TrekNoid
"There are two ways to live your life.
One is as though nothing is a miracle.
The other is as though everything is a miracle." --- Albert Einstein
Spanglebaby
A coin's an inanimate object. This nonchalantism is really a form of liberal
rhetoric that's so demeaning to the true nature of your intelligence, Danny.
Intrinsically, you don't walk the line depending on the issue. That's a
misnomer. There's no such thing as a middle of the road person.
That's all a facade, really. To say that you "it's not my issue" about
anything in life is merely a cop out. (And using abortion as an example is
lame becuase regardless of what ever happens, feelings about abortion aren't
situational. Life is life and death is death, unlike love or sex, so there
are no conditions. Abortions either disgust you or you can lie to yourself
and say "I can live with them as long as they don't directly effect me and
my family." Life is life. Death is death. It's all permanent. It doesn't
matter WHO'S FAMILY, when you really get down to it, so it's not
conditional, it's either/or.)
As long as you're alive, you have an opinion that's going to be more in
favor of one thing than another. To say "it's not my issue" is a way of
avoiding the confrontation and the crossfire. Intrinsically, we all take
sides. Whether we verbalize them or not is one thing, but there's no such
thing as comparing yourself to a coin. A coin is inanimate and you have
feelings. To say "it's not my issue" is akin to saying "allow me to change
my mind whenever I wish and don't back me into a corner about it, please".
That's not possible with me. It goes against the internal game plan of
nature. If you originally thought a certain way about something and once
made that clear to others, then you sway, you need to be asked why. You
don't need to be controlled or driven back to your original course of
thinking, but you need to at least be confronted. There's no such thing as
breaking free from an original course of thought without a come uppance.
I know *WHY* you keep giving me what others here refer to as a "second
chance time and again". I don't need that question answered. I know and YOU
know that I'm fascinatingly intelligent and so forthright about my
convictions that you can't ignore me. It's impossible to have an open mind
and let a person like me slip through the cracks of your consciousness.
:-)
JN
"TrekNoid" <trek...@aol.comnojunk> wrote in message
news:20010624150808...@ng-mq1.aol.com...
RainieS2
>If I cared about being popular, I'd jump
>on the 'bash Jen' bandwagon and never look back... I'd have never publically
>criticized Bonbon and Shelly during their 'faux' battle.
I don't think any of this has anything to do with choosing sides to be popular.
That's like saying all who respond to JN in a negative way is just doing so to
be popular. Hogwash.
rainie
Michele
Jen breeds negativity. She has been doing it for years. And what she saids about
people kissing bonbon's or shelly;s butts and all the other crap is Pure BULL you
know what. Just read some of her stuff, she is rude, inconsiderate and mean to
people. Hell she is rude to people when the posts don't even pertain to her. She
does it to piss people off and you know she enjoys it. I have been absent for at
least a year and it still hasn't changed ( jen ) she is still rude and
inconsiderate.
Michele
Brendabythebay
that) and feel things strongly (I'm a Scorpio so I'm one of 'em lol.) They
tend to see things black and white and are either way up or way down, life
is rollercoaster.
Some people are more laid back and see the grey areas in life. They go
through less stress. They are very "even keel." Nothin wrong with that
either.
ITs when one type or another starts judging the other one when you run into
trouble. If you can just accept that people view things differently and
there's nothin wrong with THAT, then you'll be ok.
Brenda
TrekNoid <trek...@aol.comnojunk> wrote in message
news:20010624150808...@ng-mq1.aol.com...
Nancy Vanco
"RainieS2" <rain...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20010624162741...@ng-cb1.aol.com...
And for a young lady to go out of her way over and over again to make a
person feel as if they need to choose sides is ridiculous. If Nifer would
just shut up - none of this would be necessary. We never, ever had these
problems before she came here.. And how many times has she done this to
this group???
Just suppose to take it?? Why?????
Watcher Mom
TrekNoid
>popular.
> That's like saying all who respond to JN in a negative way is just doing so
>to
>be popular. Hogwash.
I didn't mean to imply that... Only that someone who *was* trying to be popular
would do it for that reason.
it's one of those 'A leads to B, but that doesn't imply B always happens
because of A' logical arguments...
If you want to be popular, you do what the 'In' crowd does... That's doesn't
mean people do what the 'In' crowd does only to be popular...
But you *absolutely* don't go against the grain if you're trying to be
popular... That was what I was trying to get across.
TrekNoid
>that) and feel things strongly (I'm a Scorpio so I'm one of 'em lol.)
Big surprise... I'm a Sagittarius.. :)
dhlambert
Look guys! Someone has their thesaurus out today. If I wrote anything
like this for one of my classes, I would lose points for not considering
the audience. Not everyone measures intelligence by use of big words,
anyone can get out a dictionary and do that. I think Intelligence is
better measured not by what you know, but how you use it.
Heather
dhlambert
ITA, I totally agree Rainie. I went from being on Mara's side until
Shelly's gracious apology, to not being on either side. I went to
impartiality and was friendly to both of them, until I felt Mara's knife
sink deep into my back. Popularity is something I have never cared
about, my part in this has to do with her being a phsyco-bitch who says
heartless inhumane things, and tries to reap destruction on this NG,
which when she is gone is quite peaceful.
Heather
Michele
Who is mara?
TrekNoid
>chance time and again". I don't need that question answered. I know and YOU
>know that I'm fascinatingly intelligent and so forthright about my
>convictions that you can't ignore me. It's impossible to have an open mind
>and let a person like me slip through the cracks of your consciousness.
>
>:-)
The truth is, Jen... that's really not far from reality... About 90% of the
time, I think I'd really enjoy philosophical discussion with you... The only
problem is that 10% that seems to come out whenever something hits one of your
hot buttons...
When you're calm... you're about as fascinating as they come... but when you're
angry, you're worse than Jan on Days...
That's what really keeps me from truly making a decision on you, Jen... It's
the abuse... There's always a flare-up of name-calling and spite *before* you
can get to the real issue...
And, while I have to deal with that sort of thing with people I work with... I
choose to not deal with that in social situations...
We're gonna have to disagree on this issue, I suppose...
Of all the things I can change about myself, there's one thing I can't
change... who I am at my core... and when it comes down to it, I'm the kind of
guy that just accepts people... I don't see issues as black and white.. never
have... and I honestly don't choose sides unless I have to make a choice...
I *do* believe in compromise... and, like sensai in 'Shogun'... I leave *final*
decisions until there is no more time left to negotiate.
Believe that, or don't... I can't make you accept something that doesn't fit
your sphere of belief...
Nor can you make me be something I'm not...
dhlambert
Michele wrote:
>
> dhlambert wrote:
>
>
> Who is mara?
Mara is who JN really is, Shelly super-sleuth uncovered her true
identity, and it even caused Mara to quit posting for a couple of
months--that was nice.
Heather
Dana M B
>
> Truth is, *that* battle is *not* my battle... so I *don't* choose sides...
> because there is *no side* for me...
>
> In fact, the Jen vs. ATDOOL war doesn't even rate as an issue for me...
I agree with the above statements and since you chose to speak out I
will too. I have been very quiet recently when it came to these posts.
I have responded to posts by Jen when she's written about the show or
Passions. I respond to everyone else the same way. I have e-mailed
Shelly in the past, though not on a regular basis. I respect her a
lot. I used to get involved in the Jen wars in the past. I have
stated my opinion more than once and have gone one on one with Jen in
the past. I defended Jen a couple of times when I thought she was being
attacked unprovoked. I have said how I felt about the posts about
Shelly's children.
However, lately I've realized there are just certain issues I don't
want to get involved in anymore. People may wonder what my "agenda" is
or why I haven't taken sides lately. People may wonder why I reply to
Jen and they may wonder if I'm on "her side" when in the past I was
clearly "against" her at times. Basically, I just don't want to get
involved anymore. I just want to have a pleasant time here, and if I
involve myself *I* won't like the effect it has on me, even virtually.
That's not to say I'm wishy-washy or don't have an opinion. I most
certainly do, I just prefer to keep it to myself these days. Has it
been hard to stay out of it? You bet! Sometimes there's an opportunity
to say something and I want to hit reply but I resist. Basically, I
feel like this will never end. Getting involved won't speed up any
resolution, it will simply distract me from the reason I'm here.
I'm not saying I never get involved in flame wars, we KNOW that's not
the truth! This particular flame war has a history that started before
I even heard of Usenet and I don't see it ending any time soon. That is
why I choose to stay out of it. I won't take sides publicly, nor via
e-mail or IMs. I have my opinions that I keep to myself. If I'm ever
attacked DIRECTLY then you bet I'll be right there defending myself.
Until then, I choose to remain quiet. Some may view that as not being
able to take a stand or not having the b@lls to stand up for what I
believe in. Some people may not trust me because I won't take a side
and that's fine. I've been on the Internet long enough to realize the
way it works. I *am* taking a stand, I *am* standing up for what I
believe in-I believe it is not in my best interests to get involved.
I'm here to have fun and talk about my soaps or anything else off topic
that interests me, including the occasional "new" flame war. <g>
Hoping people understand my POV, even if they may not agree with it.
Dana
TrekNoid
>Look guys! Someone has their thesaurus out today. If I wrote anything
>like this for one of my classes, I would lose points for not considering
>the audience.
You know, Heather... If I didn't know better, I'd almost take that as a slam on
me :)
You know... considering that she basically intended the message for me... then
to suggest that the intended audience wouldn't understand it...
And before you make the suggestion that she send it private, then... right now
we're not talking privately... The reasons for that are, well... between she
and I :)
Michele
You made some very good points Dana. : )
Michele
dhlambert
TrekNoid wrote:
>
>
> You know, Heather... If I didn't know better, I'd almost take that as a slam on
> me :)
>
> You know... considering that she basically intended the message for me... then
> to suggest that the intended audience wouldn't understand it...
>
> And before you make the suggestion that she send it private, then... right now
> we're not talking privately... The reasons for that are, well... between she
> and I :)
>
> TrekNoid
>
Sorry if you took it that way, but it was not a slam on you. If the
message is just for you, than maybe the message was better left in
e-mail. I understand that you suggested I not make that suggestion, but
the fact is, it is there for all of us to read.
Also, I don't think that anything she does is for the eyes of only one
person even if it appears that way. I truly believe every post executed
by her is a chance to grandstand.
I don't hold it against you if you want to be her friend, that is your
right to have your own opinions. I also have that right, and if
something is posted on a public forum where I can read it, I will form
an opinion about it.
Heather
Spanglebaby
Everyone always guesses my zodiac sign even before I even tell them. It's so
sad, but oh, well.... Where's the fun in THAT?!!?!
JN
"TrekNoid" <trek...@aol.comnojunk> wrote in message
news:20010624165501...@ng-fo1.aol.com...
DeevaCath
>Date: 06/24/2001 3:27 PM Central
I have to agree with Rainie here too.
I, like Danny, can like both sides and not choose. I did it for a long time. I
did not "jump on the "Jen" bash wagon" to be popular. I choose to not like Mara
because she personally attacked me after I let plenty "roll off my back like
beads on a duck" as she would put it. I had had enough. I never choose to be,
feel or do something because someone else does. I simply do it because *I* want
to.
_____________________________________________________________
*Everything is okay in the end. If it's not okay, then it's not the end.*
Cathy, *Keeper of the Ts (8b)
#1 Mayfield and Gordon fan
"Our clique rawks!"
Bonbon
>>popular.
>> That's like saying all who respond to JN in a negative way is just doing so
>>to
>>be popular. Hogwash.
>
>I didn't mean to imply that... Only that someone who *was* trying to be
>popular
>would do it for that reason.
>
>it's one of those 'A leads to B, but that doesn't imply B always happens
>because of A' logical arguments...
>
>If you want to be popular, you do what the 'In' crowd does... That's doesn't
>mean people do what the 'In' crowd does only to be popular...
>
>But you *absolutely* don't go against the grain if you're trying to be
>popular... That was what I was trying to get across.
>
>TrekNoid
I think I have to agree with Rainie. I don't believe there's one person that
"bashes" Jen that hasn't first been the victim of one of her attacks.
Everybody feels they have to "fight back" because of the anger she generates.
Now if someone else had jumped on the bandwagon who had never been a victim in
the first place, then yes, I'd say they were doing it to be popular. In all
honesty, I can't think of one person here in that situation. JMO
Bonbon
Bonbon
>>that) and feel things strongly (I'm a Scorpio so I'm one of 'em lol.)
>
>Big surprise... I'm a Sagittarius.. :)
>
>TrekNoid
So am I but it appears we are quite different from each other. So much for
astrology, eh?
I'm not into it enough to know what type of personality I should be but I will
say that I am strongly opinionated but I'm also very slow to anger and don't
like controversy/discord/dissention. That should give you some kind of
indication of how Jen affects me.
Bonbon
Spanglebaby
respect people who, if they've never heard a word I use, have the
boldness to ask what the word means. I won't "dumb down" my speech for
anyone. That's not part of the way I work. If you can't handle my
vocabulary, killfile me. All that you do is look jealous when you
complain about it. I don't post with a thesaurus. I don't NEED one.
I've got enough snynonyms to use in my brain. I'm proud to have a
nerdy vocabulary and know a lot of words. If it makes me too different
for you to handle, then so be it. I'm not going to ask you to change
the way you paint for me, Lambert, so you should not ask me to alter
the way in which I write.
JMO...
JN
dhlambert <dhla...@qwest.net> wrote in message news:<3B35817B...@qwest.net>...
dhlambert
Spanglebaby wrote:
>
> I talk like this in day to day converstaion, too. This is who I am. I
> respect people who, if they've never heard a word I use, have the
> boldness to ask what the word means. I won't "dumb down" my speech for
> anyone. That's not part of the way I work. If you can't handle my
> vocabulary, killfile me. All that you do is look jealous when you
> complain about it. I don't post with a thesaurus. I don't NEED one.
> I've got enough snynonyms to use in my brain. I'm proud to have a
> nerdy vocabulary and know a lot of words. If it makes me too different
> for you to handle, then so be it. I'm not going to ask you to change
> the way you paint for me, Lambert, so you should not ask me to alter
> the way in which I write.
>
> JMO...
>
> JN
>
I can understand every word of your babble, you just don't make them
flow together correctly.
I was just making the point that it is not very impressive, Mara.
Heather
Tiffer
'nuff said.
You can't scare me, I teach.
AST#2 Apt. 8D.
Tiffer
TrekNoid
>sentence appears to be sarcastic about Danny's line of thinking (whoever
>Danny is).
For the newbies... Danny and TrekNoid are one and the same :)
TrekNoid
>astrology, eh?
>
Not necessarily... Sagittarius is 'the Truth Seeker'... The methods may be
different, but underlying philosphy of a Sagittarian is to always seek the
truth first...
Of course, I don't subscribe to astrology, but I do find it interesting :)
TrekNoid
>message is just for you, than maybe the message was better left in
>e-mail. I understand that you suggested I not make that suggestion, but
>the fact is, it is there for all of us to read.
Well... I was trying to make a little joke about it... then offer a small
explanation... I honestly didn't take it wrong :)
dhlambert
TrekNoid wrote:
>
>
> Well... I was trying to make a little joke about it... then offer a small
> explanation... I honestly didn't take it wrong :)
>
> TrekNoid
>
Good. :o)
Heather
Spanglebaby
that I don't have the power in my left pinky to affect you one way or
the other, Bonmama. Whoopsie Daisy! So much for THAT theory of old!
JN
tresb...@aol.commotion (Bonbon) wrote in message news:<20010624201102...@ng-cf1.aol.com>...
Spanglebaby
or your husband paint, and you don't like the way I write. So be it.
I've recieved rewards for my writing and you've received rewards for
your painting. So be it. Everybody likes something different and to
complain is a waste of time.
JN
dhlambert <dhla...@qwest.net> wrote in message news:<3B35C6B3...@qwest.net>...
Spanglebaby
it. I have felt time and again that she did it as a favor to the
newsgroup and it wasn't truly from her heart. She's never gotten down
to the nitty gritty of why she wrote the letter and ever wanted to
hurt me in the first place and she KNOWS that letter was vile and hurt
me. That letter changed the way I view the internet, Usenet, and the
Newsgroup. I'll never be the same, so if she wants to blame anybody,
she should look first at herself. She's more clever than you think
and is more of a manipulator than perhaps you wish to admit to. She is
SO paranoid of anything that makes me happy. That's why she IMessaged
one of my friends last week and tried to bulldoze our friendship. I
was mailed the ENTIRE IM and had a chance to read it. It's AMAZING
what this b**ch is all about. She's such a busybody that it's amazing.
Her thinking that would EVER work is proof that she's crazy and is so
powertripped that there is no getting through to her. I'm hurtful,
she's hurtful. Fine, whatever, but that letter she wrote was a
DELIBERATE ATTEMPT TO kick me when she felt that I was down and
everything I'VE EVER DONE SINCE HAS ONLY BEEN RETALIATION.
JN
dhlambert <dhla...@qwest.net> wrote in message news:<3B3582AC...@qwest.net>...
dhlambert
Spanglebaby wrote:
>
> I'm not HERE to impress you. I don't like the ammateurish that way you
> or your husband paint, and you don't like the way I write. So be it.
> I've recieved rewards for my writing and you've received rewards for
> your painting. So be it. Everybody likes something different and to
> complain is a waste of time.
>
> JN
>
I think you mean awards. Thank you for reaffirming my point.
Heather
dhlambert
Spanglebaby wrote:
>
> I've always felt that Shelly's never apologized to me and really meant
> it. I have felt time and again that she did it as a favor to the
> newsgroup and it wasn't truly from her heart. She's never gotten down
> to the nitty gritty of why she wrote the letter and ever wanted to
> hurt me in the first place and she KNOWS that letter was vile and hurt
> me. That letter changed the way I view the internet, Usenet, and the
> Newsgroup. I'll never be the same, so if she wants to blame anybody,
> she should look first at herself. She's more clever than you think
> and is more of a manipulator than perhaps you wish to admit to. She is
> SO paranoid of anything that makes me happy. That's why she IMessaged
> one of my friends last week and tried to bulldoze our friendship. I
> was mailed the ENTIRE IM and had a chance to read it. It's AMAZING
> what this b**ch is all about. She's such a busybody that it's amazing.
> Her thinking that would EVER work is proof that she's crazy and is so
> powertripped that there is no getting through to her. I'm hurtful,
> she's hurtful. Fine, whatever, but that letter she wrote was a
> DELIBERATE ATTEMPT TO kick me when she felt that I was down and
> everything I'VE EVER DONE SINCE HAS ONLY BEEN RETALIATION.
>
> JN
>
See how self-centered you are, always thinking everything is about you?
I was referring to her apology to me not you--her private one that had
nothing to do with the group. Her actions after the fact only reinstates
to me that she was very sincere.
Heather
Matt
(Spanglebaby) posted:
> That's why she IMessaged
>one of my friends last week and tried to bulldoze our friendship
Gee, that's funny. I also got mailed the log of her and Pattie's
little talk and it sure sounded like she was warning her of YOU and
your little tricks rather than "breaking" you two up.
Matt - Residing in AST2 Penthouse #10F
Owner and Manager of AST
"nothing" to you. If I had time, I'd dig up the post, but I don't.
Liar.
And to the issue of the post which started this thread:
To discuss the division of this ng in terms of "sides" is realistic. I
wouldn't see it as "Pro JN" or "Pro Bonnie/Shelly." I see it as "Those who
have been abused by JN" and "Those who have yet to be abused by JN."
It's as simple as that. You are an abuser and a sociopath.
As far as "retaliation" is concerned, you're way off base in that regard. You
were a full-blown abuser before I *ever* delurked. If you weren't going to be
abusing me, it would have been someone else. I merely gave you a different
"target."
I write this in reply to:
>I've always felt that Shelly's never apologized to me and really meant
>it. I have felt time and again that she did it as a favor to the
>newsgroup and it wasn't truly from her heart. She's never gotten down
>to the nitty gritty of why she wrote the letter and ever wanted to
>hurt me in the first place and she KNOWS that letter was vile and hurt
>me. That letter changed the way I view the internet, Usenet, and the
>Newsgroup. I'll never be the same, so if she wants to blame anybody,
>she should look first at herself. She's more clever than you think
>and is more of a manipulator than perhaps you wish to admit to. She is
>SO paranoid of anything that makes me happy. That's why she IMessaged
>one of my friends last week and tried to bulldoze our friendship. I
>was mailed the ENTIRE IM and had a chance to read it. It's AMAZING
>what this b**ch is all about. She's such a busybody that it's amazing.
>Her thinking that would EVER work is proof that she's crazy and is so
>powertripped that there is no getting through to her. I'm hurtful,
>she's hurtful. Fine, whatever, but that letter she wrote was a
>DELIBERATE ATTEMPT TO kick me when she felt that I was down and
>everything I'VE EVER DONE SINCE HAS ONLY BEEN RETALIATION.
>
>JN
eShellzo #1A O&M AST Towers
NEW TO THE NG? VISIT THE FAQ: http://angelfire.lycos.com/tv/alttvdoolfaq/
In a SOD Chat, Deidre Hall is asked: Who did YOU want to be the father of
Hope's baby?? Deidre: "Bo!" "BITF! BITF! BITF!"--Me
Owner and Manager of AST
>
>Mara is who JN really is, Shelly super-sleuth uncovered her true
>identity, and it even caused Mara to quit posting for a couple of
>months--that was nice.
>
I didn't come up with that myself, to be fair. Two other very intelligent
folks came to me in the same span of three days with questions about Mara
Knight. It stems from those conversations.
I don't take credit for that.
The respite in her posting *did* come from a post I wrote, but it had nothing
to do with her being identified as Mara.
amanda
Bonbon
>different, but underlying philosphy of a Sagittarian is to always seek the
>truth first...
>
>Of course, I don't subscribe to astrology, but I do find it interesting :)
>
>TrekNoid
Well, I guess if you put it that way, that we are truth seekers, I'd have to
agree with that. What day is yours? Mine in the 2nd.
Bonbon
Bonbon
>that I don't have the power in my left pinky to affect you one way or
>the other, Bonmama. Whoopsie Daisy! So much for THAT theory of old!
>
>JN
Well, I don't ever recall saying that but you don't so much anger me as
irritate me. I don't allow anger in my life because I now know how it affects
one physically. During my cardiac rehabilitation course, I learned that anger
actually does have an adverse effect on one's arteries so if you *really*
angered me, you'd be totally ignored.
You are an accumulation of irritation. You are the mosquito in my bedroom at
night, you are the pebble in my shoe, you are the sliver in my finger, you are
the pain in my butt. If that makes you proud, congratulations!
Bonbon
Bonbon
>SO paranoid of anything that makes me happy. That's why she IMessaged
>one of my friends last week and tried to bulldoze our friendship. I
>was mailed the ENTIRE IM and had a chance to read it. It's AMAZING
>what this b**ch is all about.
>
Whoa, hold on there, that train goes both ways. You are telling a bald faced
lie. Caught you in THAT one!
Bonbon
Matt
>Whoa, hold on there, that train goes both ways. You are telling a bald faced
>lie. Caught you in THAT one!
She's a nutter, ain't she Bonikins? She insists everyone is going to
ruin her friendships, yet if she were *that* secure about them - would
it matter what others said? Guess she doesn't have any secure
friendships ;)
TrekNoid
>agree with that. What day is yours? Mine in the 2nd.
>
Sixteenth :)
dhlambert
My BIL in Fremont is the 2nd, and both my parents were Sagittarius.
Heather
Bonbon
>My BIL in Fremont is the 2nd, and both my parents were Sagittarius.
>
>Heather
>
In my lifetime I think I must have run into 15 people who were born on Dec.
2nd. Must have been a good birthing day or sumpin. The CEO of the last place
I worked was born on the 2nd so don't you know that gave me a special place
there? ;o)
Bonbon
Todd Isaac
Bonbon wrote:
That or there is nothing else to do Late February/Early March
>
> Bonbon
>
>
Bonbon
My husband worked on the flight line at O'Hair AFB when he was in the Air Force
and they can get some pretty cold and nasty days there. They used to have a
saying on those really bad days that they were PG days. In other words, the
guys would get a day off to spend with their wives and 9 months later...babies!
So, there could be some truth in that.
I was born in Wisconsin who has it's share of cold snowy days there so, who
knows?
Bonbon
Spanglebaby
Oh, I'm a liar, am I? You wan't me to send you the entire IM of her
conversation with Pattie, Bonbon? Pattie sent it to me to alert me to
what Shelly was up to that evening. Told me to do whatever I want with
it and use it as documentation in case eS tries to bullshit her way
out of it. She said Shelly seemed "startled and upset" by the fact
that it took Pattie a while to remember who she was.
JN
Spanglebaby
to sadly differ, Bonbon. I generate *debate*. This place is as boring
as a barn without an owl to scare it without me here. You *need* me to
cause a proper stream of debate here even MORE than I need you to
leave me a alone, really. The place is just dead otherwise; like that
Vaseline commercial. You know the one. The one where the pretty lady
with the perfect pink manicure says "Dry! Dry as a dead leaf!".
JMO and my scope on things, though, Bonnie. That wasn't meant as a
post to take a personal dump on your philosphy of how things are here
at the NG. You're entitled to feel as you wish having been here for
all the days I've posted here to observe me. I'd call certain others
(like Teresa or Matt) a lot less informed about this topic long before
I'd ever think to say to you "You have no basis for what your'e
saying".
tresb...@aol.commotion (Bonbon) wrote in message news:<20010624200549...@ng-cf1.aol.com>...
> >>I don't think any of this has anything to do with choosing sides to be
> >>popular.
> >> That's like saying all who respond to JN in a negative way is just doing so
> >>to
> >>be popular. Hogwash.
> >
> >I didn't mean to imply that... Only that someone who *was* trying to be
> >popular
> >would do it for that reason.
> >
> >it's one of those 'A leads to B, but that doesn't imply B always happens
> >because of A' logical arguments...
> >
> >If you want to be popular, you do what the 'In' crowd does... That's doesn't
> >mean people do what the 'In' crowd does only to be popular...
> >
> >But you *absolutely* don't go against the grain if you're trying to be
> >popular... That was what I was trying to get across.
> >
> >TrekNoid
>
> I think I have to agree with Rainie. I don't believe there's one person that
> "bashes" Jen that hasn't first been the victim of one of her attacks.
> Everybody feels they have to "fight back" because of the anger she generates.
> Now if someone else had jumped on the bandwagon who had never been a victim in
> the first place, then yes, I'd say they were doing it to be popular. In all
> honesty, I can't think of one person here in that situation. JMO
>
> Bonbon
Matt
(Spanglebaby) posted:
>Oh, I'm a liar, am I? You wan't me to send you the entire IM of her
>conversation with Pattie, Bonbon? Pattie sent it to me to alert me to
>what Shelly was up to that evening. Told me to do whatever I want with
>it and use it as documentation in case eS tries to bullshit her way
>out of it. She said Shelly seemed "startled and upset" by the fact
>that it took Pattie a while to remember who she was.
You dope. You mean this chat:
EShellzo: JN came to the ng two days ago and said that you were doing
things behind out backs on her behalf.
EShellzo: True or not?
EShellzo: our back
PERPETUAL BLOND: what????????????
EShellzo: Oh, yes.
EShellzo: She gave you a long distance high five and said she thanked
you and that the party was to begin.
EShellzo: I will dig up the post and email it to you if you want.
EShellzo: true or not?
PERPETUAL BLOND: no, thats ok. lol
PERPETUAL BLOND: ill just tell you what i think.. k?
PERPETUAL BLOND: ill just tell you what i think.. k?
EShellzo: Waiting.
PERPETUAL BLOND: ok.. well its no secret.. I like jen. shes always
been very nice to me. While I never agreed w/ the bickering on either
part.. it seemed to me it was a wicth hunt towrads her for the most
part..i stated my peice at the group.and then decided to leave.. it
was becoming not fun to me anymore. At one point, i suggested geezus i
shoild just make up a name like all these anonymous posters do,and
really let loose.. but i never did.
PERPETUAL BLOND: anywya...
PERPETUAL BLOND: i havent spoken to jen in at least.. geesh.. 3 or 4
months.. so i dont knw what you are talking about
PERPETUAL BLOND: and actually.. the talks we had.. werent newsgroup
related
EShellzo: Then she's using you to stir up crap in the ng.
EShellzo: Still like her? She's dragging your name through the mud
along the way.
EShellzo: People are getting really pissed.
PERPETUAL BLOND: a few maybe at the onset of our friendship.. but
mostly just stuff in our ives, significant others etc...
well... im no longerpart of that place,it doenst effect me. i havent
been online even u know?
PERPETUAL BLOND: well.. justignore her i guess
PERPETUAL BLOND: if i see her , ill mention it to her.. but like i
said.. I havent
PERPETUAL BLOND: i did add her to my buddy list though
PERPETUAL BLOND: but thankyou for the heads up
EShellzo: I've never really had anything against you , Pattie.
EShellzo: I just didn't understand and that's my problem.
EShellzo: I just think it is important for you to be able to defend
yourself or know, either way.
EShellzo: I will take what you say to heart and be on my way.
EShellzo: Sorry to bother you.
EShellzo: Good bye.
PERPETUAL BLOND: well, thats fine... my objective there was to read
amd dish about days ... thanks though:-) bye
Erm, you were saying? There's Pattie's conversation with Shelly.
Matt - Living the life in AST2 Penthouse #10F
"It's just my own opinion - take it or leave it" :o)
Matt
(Spanglebaby) posted:
>Oh, I'm a liar, am I? You wan't me to send you the entire IM of her
>conversation with Pattie, Bonbon? Pattie sent it to me to alert me to
>what Shelly was up to that evening. Told me to do whatever I want with
>it and use it as documentation in case eS tries to bullshit her way
>out of it. She said Shelly seemed "startled and upset" by the fact
>that it took Pattie a while to remember who she was.
You dope. You mean this chat:
Matt
DeevaCath
>
>I don't generate *anger*, and that's where you and I are always going
>to sadly differ, Bonbon.
I beg to differ. I'd say you generate anger and most of it is your own.
_____________________________________________________________
*Everything is okay in the end. If it's not okay, then it's not the end.*
Cathy, *Keeper of the Ts (8b)
#1 Mayfield and Gordon fan
"Our clique rawks!"
DeevaCath
>Date: 06/27/2001 1:53 AM Centra
That sheds a whole new light on someone's credibility.
Owner and Manager of AST
>conversation with Pattie, Bonbon? Pattie sent it to me to alert me to
>what Shelly was up to that evening. Told me to do whatever I want with
>it and use it as documentation in case eS tries to bullshit her way
>out of it. She said Shelly seemed "startled and upset" by the fact
>that it took Pattie a while to remember who she was.
>
>JN
If this is the case, she must have had a different conversation that what *I*
had. I didn't even have to remind her who I was. She got it right away.
Please share it with us so that we can all see who the liar is. I doubt that
you would show it because it proves that Pattie had absolutely NO IDEA about
you including her in the "master plan," not to mention you giving her a high
five for being involved.
I just thought I owed it to myself and to Pattie to talk with her about it.
You should know better than to involve people who don't want to be involved in
what you do.
Show it. I dare you.
Dana M B
the *other* side.
Oraphin wrote:
>
> The essence of debating involves taking two sides of an issue.
>
>
Bonbon
>the *other* side.
And a good debater can argue either side.
Bonbon
Brendabythebay
comments scroll down....
TrekNoid wrote in message ..
<snip the polite introduction>
> Today, coming home from picking up my son from his grandparents, I was
talking
> with my wife about the newsgroup. She often sits with me when I go through
the
> messages, and when she saw an earlier reply I made to Jen about 'choosing
> sides'. Driving home, she asked me a question that floored me... "So,
which
> side *are* you on?"
>
> I was dumbfounded... then confused... then realization dawned on me...
Once
> again, she had asked me a question that while not exactly rhetorical, it
was at
> least designed to point out something obviously overlooked.
Awwww, I'm in love. A guy that actually LISTENS to his woman? Thinks about
the conversation for more than a minute...enough to later put a post in a
public newsgroup?
> Where I think Jen, and sometimes Shelly, misses the mark on me is that
they see
> their battle as 'The Battle', and all the newsgroup participants line up
on one
> side or the other.
>
> Truth is, *that* battle is *not* my battle... so I *don't* choose sides...
> because there is *no side* for me...
>
Great positive karma move there bud. Let these guys fight amongst
themselves, its their battle and its all negative karma.
> In fact, the Jen vs. ATDOOL war doesn't even rate as an issue for me...
*My*
> battle, is that I chose a side in the 'newsgroup behavior' war... At times
I've
> spoken out against Bonbon... I've spoken out against Shelly... I've spoken
out
> against *many* folks who I thought were out-of-line in their behaviors in
the
> group.
>
> For Jen, unless I choose to 'take a side', I'm wishy-washy... but for me
to
> choose a side in *her* battle, would be to give up my position in *mine*.
>
> The reality is, I don't like the antagonist nature of *any* of the posters
in
> the 'Jen vs. ATDOOL' war... I don't care for any of it... Not BonBon's...
not
> Shelly's... not Matt's... not Jen's...
>
Me either...
> Like 790, I get a sense of dread every time I come to the newsgroup... I
just
> *know* someone's going to be lobbing the next sortie, and I know I'm gonna
have
> to watch the blood run...
>
> I'm fighting my own battle... If that makes me wishy-washy in someone
else's
> battle, then that's just the way it has to be...
>
You're not being wishy washy if you decide to make a stand for peace.
> I have a friend who is a big gun rights advocate. He is constantly amazed
that
> I'm not concerned about legislation that might restrict gun ownership. I
can't
> seem to get through his head that it's *not* an issue for me... I don't
really
> care one way or the other because it won't affect my *personal* decisions
> either way.
>
People who feel strongly one way or another tend to try to persuade others
to feel the same way they do. If you dont care, you dont care and its
drives them nuts.
> I feel the same way about abortion... It's not *my* issue... The laws
regarding
> abortion won't change my *personal* decisions one way or the other. They
may
> come into play in the life of my wife someday... or in the life of my
son's
> girlfriend/life... but I don't really have any right restricting someone
else's
> personal decisions with my philosophical one.
>
> There's even the basic misunderstanding about 'sides' to begin with...
Some
> people think of sides as competing identities, Saxons vs. Normans... Jews
vs.
> Christians... North vs. South... They *aren't*... I see sides like a
coin...
> Heads vs. Tails... Front vs. Back... Yin vs. Yang...
>
> A coin isn't in conflict... it merely has two sides... It's external
forces
> that force it to come up head or tails... It doesn't 'choose' either
one...
> Sometimes it falls on heads... sometimes it falls on tails...
>
> Well, that's the way I see 'sides'... Sometimes the way the issue is
brought
> forward will bring me on the 'heads' side... sometimes the way the issue
is
> brought forward will bring me on the 'tails' side...
>
> But neither side has any meaning without the other.
Oh sigh, do you have a younger brother?
>
> So... if I appear wishy-washy on things, understand that it's because I
make
> each decision in life much the way a coin does... depending on the
> circumstances that forced it into making the decision.
>
> One thing is definately for certain, though... I *obviously* could care
less
> about the 'popularity' of what I do... If I cared about being popular, I'd
jump
> on the 'bash Jen' bandwagon and never look back... I'd have never
publically
> criticized Bonbon and Shelly during their 'faux' battle.
>
> When you support the unpopular person, and openly criticize the popular
one...
> you're not doing it for the popularity...
>
> Thanks for the rambling space...
Made a lot of sense to me. Too bad the thread got entangled in the same old
same old.
Brenda
>
> Danny
TrekNoid
>Oh sigh, do you have a younger brother?
Sorry... I'm the baby of the family :) Got a nephew, but he's 18... and a
fairly typical one at that :)
MsLiz
<Brendab...@NOSPAMhome.com> was sworn in and testified:
>OK I'm putting the subject back onto the original post.... got some more
>comments scroll down....
major snippage
>People who feel strongly one way or another tend to try to persuade others
>to feel the same way they do. If you dont care, you dont care and its
>drives them nuts.
I have heard it said that the opposite of love is not hate, it is
disinterest.
>Oh sigh, do you have a younger brother?
Or older? ; ) J/K
Enjoyed hearing from you both.
MsLiz
dhlambert
MsLiz wrote:
>
.
>
> I have heard it said that the opposite of love is not hate, it is
> disinterest.
>
I have heard the same thing. Love and hate are intense emotions, and
indifference is a lack of emotion, so it makes sense to me.
Heather
Nancy Vanco
"Bonbon" <tresb...@aol.commotion> wrote in message
news:20010627210924...@ng-cn1.aol.com...
You are aware that there ARE two sides....;-))
Watcher Mom
Spanglebaby
The pain in your butt is because you wipe too hard and have a fixation
with your back end. I have ZERO to do with anything that goes on in
your a*s, so don't blame it on me, Stinky!
JN
tresb...@aol.commotion (Bonbon) wrote in message news:<20010625081215...@ng-fh1.aol.com>...