Daria and Dating
<Affinity>
Daria find herself a boyfriend. I can understand this but I would
much rather see Daria and Jane realize their unspoken attraction to
each other and admit they are bisexual. I mean why go the tried and
tested way, which bears no relevance to sexuality in the 90's, when
you could push the boundaries a little.
--
___
/\ \
/::\ \
/:/\:\ \
/:/ /::\ \
/:/_/:/\:\__\
\:\/:/ \/__/
\::/__/ffinity...
\:\ \
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Martin J. Pollard
<lu...@camtech.net.au> wrote:
>Reading some of your posts it seems that some of you would like to see
>Daria find herself a boyfriend. I can understand this but I would
>much rather see Daria and Jane realize their unspoken attraction to
>each other and admit they are bisexual. I mean why go the tried and
>tested way, which bears no relevance to sexuality in the 90's, when
>you could push the boundaries a little.
Is this the same logic that the original Star Trek slash fic writers
used to justify their contention that Kirk and Spock were secretly
homosexual lovers? ("Oh, my God! In 'Star Trek: The Motion Picture,'
Spock took Kirk's hand and said something about feelings! That's
proof enough for me!" Puh-leeze...)
"If you look hard enough, you'll eventually see exactly what you want
to see, even if your mind has to invent it." Keep this truism in mind
when you watch the show, and you won't be bothered by these strange
little fantasies any longer.
Martin
(send all e-mail to "mar...@lawndale.net")
+--------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Quinn: When they got nervous, they'd drink cocoa. |
| Helen: Now, sweetie, there's nothing to worry about. (door slams) |
| Looters! |
+--------------------------------------------------------------------+
Outpost Daria: Your Online Database for All Things Daria!
http://www.lawndale.net -OR- http://systech.simplenet.com/daria/
Lone Wolf
<lu...@camtech.net.au> wrote:
>Reading some of your posts it seems that some of you would like to see
>Daria find herself a boyfriend. I can understand this but I would
>much rather see Daria and Jane realize their unspoken attraction to
>each other and admit they are bisexual. I mean why go the tried and
>tested way, which bears no relevance to sexuality in the 90's, when
>you could push the boundaries a little.
I'd like to see Daria in any sort of relationship... straight, bi, or
gay.
Long as it's not with Upchuck.
-----
Lone Wolf
I'm rooting for the crocodile.
"You are American?"
"No, I'm Canadian... that's like an American without
the gun."
- KitH
Jeg7777
> Daria find herself a boyfriend. I can understand this but I would
> much rather see Daria and Jane realize their unspoken attraction to
> each other and admit they are bisexual.
That's right. Everyone who has a close friend of the same gender should
realize their unspoken attraction to each other and admit they're
bisexual.
Quinn is right. People ARE so weird.
--
Joe
*********************************************************************
"Meet the cannibal with a heart....quick! Before he eats it! Next on
'Sick Sad World!'" ---from Daria, "Just Add Water"
Jordan S. Bassior
>I can understand this but I would
>much rather see Daria and Jane realize their unspoken attraction to
>each other and admit they are bisexual.
There's been no evidence on the show to support your theory. Yes, Daria and
Jane are close friends, but there is absolutely no sign of even the slightest
sexual attraction between them.
There is, in fact, plenty of evidence that they are primarily heterosexual.
Daria has spent the whole series mooning over Trent, with Jane's approval. Jane
has on four occasions in the series shown attraction for a male (most recently,
acquiring a serious boyfriend).
Daria and Jane have had fantasies regarding their future. Daria's fantasy
appears to involve marriage (to a man), Jane's artistic success. Neither of
them have shown any lesbian desires in these fantasies.
Finally, Jane has STATED she "likes guys too much" to be homosexual. (She once
claimed to be gay, but that was not only clearly a joke, but was pointed out as
such by Daria and Jane in their very next lines).
You could try to construct a theory that they are bisexual based on this, but
you would truly be building castles in the air. You can't even say that the
show says nothing at all about Daria or Jane sexually, as several episodes have
been based around the romantic adventures of one or another of these two girls.
>I mean why go the tried and
>tested way, which bears no relevance to sexuality in the 90's, when
>you could push the boundaries a little.
I think that Daria and Jane are both intellectually and emotionally independent
enough that any exploration of their "sexuality" would be done based upon THEIR
desires versus some sort of decade-based or boundary-pushing motivatons. In
fact, anyone who orients their romantic, sexual, and emotional life around a
desire to be "cool" is playing a fool's game ... one has to live one's own life
and with one's own choices; the others whom one might try to impress neither
share one's joy nor one's sufferings, and hence should have little say in one's
decisions.
I could really rip that sentence apart further, but I like your text graphic
signature thingie, so I'll let ya off easy :)
Sincerely Yours,
Jordan
"Man is a god in ruins" (Ralph Waldo Emerson)
<Affinity>
Martin J. Pollard wrote:
> Is this the same logic that the original Star Trek slash fic writers
> used to justify their contention that Kirk and Spock were secretly
> homosexual lovers? ("Oh, my God! In 'Star Trek: The Motion Picture,'
> Spock took Kirk's hand and said something about feelings! That's
> proof enough for me!" Puh-leeze...)
Well actually Martin who are we to know what passes between a man and a
Vulcan, those mind weld thingies can get pretty intense and guaranteed
their not thinking about their shopping lists.And while we wax on Star
Trek, it was the first mainstream T.V show that casted a black woman and
an Asian guy without making it pivotal issue or giving them subordinate
characters. It would be great to see the same sort of initiative taken in
a popular mainstream cartoon like Daria!. The only problem I can see is
that geeky boys like you will get their knickers in a knot because their
meeting-a-girl-like-Daria/Jane fantasies have been thwarted. Conversely
this could also have the opposite effect, cue the lesbian porn music.
> "If you look hard enough, you'll eventually see exactly what you want
> to see, even if your mind has to invent it." Keep this truism in mind
> when you watch the show, and you won't be bothered by these strange
> little fantasies any longer.
In terms of perception... we always see what we want to see anyhow.
Perception, after all, is subjective. And why is bisexuality, according to
you, a strange little fantasy?It may be strange to you, but it isn't to
allot of people... perception remember.
<Affinity>
Lone Wolf wrote:
>
>
> I'd like to see Daria in any sort of relationship... straight, bi, or
> gay.
Why?
>
>
> Long as it's not with Upchuck.
Agreed.
<Affinity>
Jordan S. Bassior wrote:
> Affinity said:
>
> >I can understand this but I would
> >much rather see Daria and Jane realize their unspoken attraction to
> >each other and admit they are bisexual.
<snipped for brevity>
> Finally, Jane has STATED she "likes guys too much" to be homosexual. (She once
> claimed to be gay, but that was not only clearly a joke, but was pointed out as
> such by Daria and Jane in their very next lines).
Blame that on MTV skirting around an issue that they don't have the courage to
tackle.
<good points snipped>
> >I mean why go the tried and
> >tested way, which bears no relevance to sexuality in the 90's, when
> >you could push the boundaries a little.
>
> I think that Daria and Jane are both intellectually and emotionally independent
> enough that any exploration of their "sexuality" would be done based upon THEIR
> desires versus some sort of decade-based or boundary-pushing motivatons. In
> fact, anyone who orients their romantic, sexual, and emotional life around a
> desire to be "cool" is playing a fool's game ... one has to live one's own life
> and with one's own choices; the others whom one might try to impress neither
> share one's joy nor one's sufferings, and hence should have little say in one's
> decisions.
I don't think including bisexuality, which *is* a current reality, would be any
sort of push to be 'cool'. I agree with your notion of making ones own choices
that are true to the person, in fact that's the biggest message of the whole show.
But hell, these people are characters... their life choices are being made by MTV
executives.
>
>
> I could really rip that sentence apart further, but I like your text graphic
> signature thingie, so I'll let ya off easy :)
Rip away, that's what it's there for... thanks I like it too.
>
>
> Sincerely Yours,
> Jordan
>
> "Man is a god in ruins" (Ralph Waldo Emerson)
<Affinity>
Jeg7777 wrote:
> Reading some of your posts it seems that some of you would like to see
> > Daria find herself a boyfriend. I can understand this but I would
> > much rather see Daria and Jane realize their unspoken attraction to
> > each other and admit they are bisexual.
>
> That's right. Everyone who has a close friend of the same gender should
> realize their unspoken attraction to each other and admit they're
> bisexual.
Exactly, the undercurrents of desire are strange and intangible. Only when
they are acted out do they shrug off the inhibitive factors of the psyche
slash society, I'm glad you agree with me.Freud would indeed be proud.
>
>
> Quinn is right. People ARE so weird.
>
> --
> Joe
>
Jeg7777
>
> > Reading some of your posts it seems that some of you would like to see
> > > Daria find herself a boyfriend. I can understand this but I would
> > > much rather see Daria and Jane realize their unspoken attraction to
> > > each other and admit they are bisexual.
> >
> > That's right. Everyone who has a close friend of the same gender should
> > realize their unspoken attraction to each other and admit they're
> > bisexual.
>
> Exactly, the undercurrents of desire are strange and intangible. Only when
> they are acted out do they shrug off the inhibitive factors of the psyche
> slash society, I'm glad you agree with me.Freud would indeed be proud.
Huh? How do you figure I agree with you? I was being sarcastic, but I
guess it wasn't obvious enough.
> > Quinn is right. People ARE so weird.
(This means YOU.)
<Affinity>
Jeg7777 wrote:
> > >
> > > That's right. Everyone who has a close friend of the same gender should
> > > realize their unspoken attraction to each other and admit they're
> > > bisexual.
> >
> > Exactly, the undercurrents of desire are strange and intangible. Only when
> > they are acted out do they shrug off the inhibitive factors of the psyche
> > slash society, I'm glad you agree with me.Freud would indeed be proud.
>
> Huh? How do you figure I agree with you? I was being sarcastic, but I
> guess it wasn't obvious enough.
Ohhhh you were being sarcastic, I guess you rapier wit bounced way over my
head.Boy do I feel stupid...
> > > Quinn is right. People ARE so weird.
>
> (This means YOU.)
Im shocked, I'm not weird, I'm normal... uh huh.
stimpsy
>
You seem afraid that Jane or Daria may be lesbian/bisexual. That really
sucks. Why would lesbianism/homosexualit be a "strange little fantasy"
anyway? Damn homophobe.
Stimpy
> Is this the same logic that the original Star Trek slash fic writers
> used to justify their contention that Kirk and Spock were secretly
> homosexual lovers? ("Oh, my God! In 'Star Trek: The Motion Picture,'
> Spock took Kirk's hand and said something about feelings! That's
> proof enough for me!" Puh-leeze...)
>
> "If you look hard enough, you'll eventually see exactly what you want
> to see, even if your mind has to invent it." Keep this truism in mind
> when you watch the show, and you won't be bothered by these strange
> little fantasies any longer.
>
Nicole Lee
>Reading some of your posts it seems that some of you would like to see
>Daria find herself a boyfriend. I can understand this but I would
>much rather see Daria and Jane realize their unspoken attraction to
>each other and admit they are bisexual. I mean why go the tried and
>tested way, which bears no relevance to sexuality in the 90's, when
>you could push the boundaries a little.
Because:
1) Daria and Jane have already mentioned they are not bisexual nor
lesbians, as noted from Daria Day '98. The transcript is on Outpost
Daria.
2) Sexuality in the 90's includes all sexual orientations - bisexual,
heterosexual, and homosexual. All of them are relevant in the
discussion of sexuality.
--
Nicole Lee
known as LadyKender on IRC and ICQ.
The Darianite Revolution at http://members.xoom.com/nlsy/daria.htm
Kendermore at http://members.xoom.com/nlsy/
Daria Code:
A D T3 Ws Q+ FN^Fr
O- OH+Oo+Od m- c+++ MV C5X
F:111,213,313 BB- FCD +DT q fN
stimpsy
>
> > Jeg7777 wrote:
> >
> > > Reading some of your posts it seems that some of you would like to see
> > > > Daria find herself a boyfriend. I can understand this but I would
> > > > much rather see Daria and Jane realize their unspoken attraction to
> > > > each other and admit they are bisexual.
> > >
> > > realize their unspoken attraction to each other and admit they're
> > > bisexual.
> >
> > Exactly, the undercurrents of desire are strange and intangible. Only when
> > they are acted out do they shrug off the inhibitive factors of the psyche
> > slash society, I'm glad you agree with me.Freud would indeed be proud.
>
> Huh? How do you figure I agree with you? I was being sarcastic, but I
> guess it wasn't obvious enough.
>
Huh?
What he said *REALLY* went over your anal retentive little head.
Dumb tuna.
Stimpy
> > > Quinn is right. People ARE so weird.
>
> (This means YOU.)
>
Dagny Scott
>tested way, which bears no relevance to sexuality in the 90's, when
>you could push the boundaries a little.
Damn! I must be horridly out of touch with sexuality in the 90's, since I'm not
bisexual. Of course I'm horridly out of touch with most things in the 90's, and
very happy about that fact, too.
Come to think of it, Daria acts pretty out of touch with "the '90s", caring
neither for the "new" teaching methods and "self esteem" O'Neill preaches (very
'90s) or with its pop culture for that matter (what tape did she give Ted? The
Beatles?)
Having Daria and Jane as bisexual would be a major incongruity in character,
both having declared they are not and shown interest in the opposite sex, and I
don't think we're big on major incongruities.
Dagny
http://members.aol.com/Eccles9697
"I'm not different for the sake of being different, only for the desperate sake
of being myself. I can't join your gang: you'd think I was a phony and I'd know
it." Vivian Stanshall
Lone Wolf
<lu...@camtech.net.au> wrote:
>Lone Wolf wrote:
>
>> I'd like to see Daria in any sort of relationship... straight, bi, or
>> gay.
>
>Why?
Why not?
I watch X-Files. I'm a shipper.
I watch Daria. I'm a shipper.
I have no luck with women. I am a rather horridly ugly example of a
human being and women can't stand the sight of me. As a result, I must
live vicariously through TV shows. Good enough? I'd be happy to send
you the URL to my web page if you doubt my sincerity. The photos on
there should be suitable to make uyou throw up.
>> Long as it's not with Upchuck.
>
>Agreed.
Muh huh.
Violator's Toad
lu...@camtech.net.au wrote:
> Reading some of your posts it seems that some of you would like to see
> Daria find herself a boyfriend. I can understand this but I would
> much rather see Daria and Jane realize their unspoken attraction to
> tested way, which bears no relevance to sexuality in the 90's, when
> you could push the boundaries a little.
<snips the cool signature thingy>
The reason I like Daria so much is because she is the only character on
TV I relate to. Actually, she's probably the only person in the whole
world I relate to right now, and that's pretty sad. :) We have many
similarities that I won't even begin to go into right now, but
bisexuality is definately NOT one of them. In my humble opinion, I
would be somewhat disturbed by your proposed change in plot line and
would probably be less likely to watch the show. I appologize for my
apparent homophobia, but I'll just blame it on upbringing right now.
Besides, if you think Daria and Jane are bi just because they're
close friends, what about Fred Flintstone and Barney Rubble? Betty and
Wilma? Charlie Brown and Linus? Scooby and Shaggy (bi-species as
well!!!)? Doug and Skeeter? Bevis and Butthead? No offense, but your
logic is a tad flawed...
What's the deal with the sudden obsession with turning "Daria" into a
pot-headed, sex-crazed soap opera? If you want to see a cartoon like
that, it looks like Downtown may be headed in that direction. (I only
saw one ep though...so I can't really tell.)
-----> Violator's Toad <-----
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Share what you know. Learn what you don't.
Tice Rust
eccle...@aol.comenospam (Dagny Scott) wrote:
> >I mean why go the tried and
> >tested way, which bears no relevance to sexuality in the 90's, when
> >you could push the boundaries a little.
>
since I'm not
> bisexual. Of course I'm horridly out of touch with most things in the
90's, and
> very happy about that fact, too.
>
> Come to think of it, Daria acts pretty out of touch with "the '90s",
caring
> neither for the "new" teaching methods and "self esteem" O'Neill
preaches (very
> '90s) or with its pop culture for that matter (what tape did she give
Ted? The
> Beatles?)
>
tackling the hot topics of the '90s, instead keeping to your basic
universal topics; family relations, individuality, friendship, etc.
-- Tice Rust
...the y1.978k problem
Jordan S. Bassior
>I don't think including bisexuality, which *is* a current reality, would be
>any sort of push to be 'cool'.
I have nothing against bisexuality or bisexuals. However, Daria and Jane are
well established characters, and what has been established about them, while it
does not make it IMPOSSIBLE for them to be bisexual, makes it improbable.
* (possible spoilers for "Jane's Addition")
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
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*
And to some extent irrelevant. The third season ended with Jane involved with a
guy (Tom), and though Daria's crush on Trent had been resolved, it had been
resolved by maturing into a firmer friendship which MIGHT in time lead to
romantic love.
Even if Jane were bisexual, for her to become involved with a woman now would
mean cheating on Tom. We don't know what Jane's opinion of this is (she may
have been involved with and cheated on Jesse), but she IS loyal to her FRIENDS.
Daria, on the other hand, even if bisexual would still be romantic, prudish,
and attracted to Trent. (Being "bisexual" doesn't automatically make you
promiscious as well; still less does being "lesbian", since lesbians generally
go for long-term relationships).
>I agree with your notion of making ones own choices
>that are true to the person, in fact that's the biggest message of the whole
show.
>But hell, these people are characters... their life choices are being made
>by MTV executives.
Yes, but that would be bad writing, because it's inconsistent with the
characters as previously established, with no explanation given for the change
in personality.
.>> I could really rip that sentence apart further, but I like your text
graphic
>> signature thingie, so I'll let ya off easy :)
>
>Rip away, that's what it's there for... thanks I like it too.
Ok ... ya asked for it ...
>I mean why go the tried and tested way,
Because it WORKS, while driving off the road often leads into smacking into a
tree?
And incidentally, from everything we've seen in Daria's fantasies, romantically
and sexually she is an extreme traditionalist. She fantasizes about love and
sex within the context of or leading up to permanent marriage. Since Daria is
NOT a blind conformist, we must conclude that she really likes the idea of
spending the rest of her life with a man she loves.
>which bears no relevance to sexuality in the 90's,
You must remember this / a kiss is still a kiss / a sigh is still a sign / The
fundamental things of life don't change / As time goes by ...
Of course it does. People today still fall in love with members of the opposite
sex, get married, and have children. Do you imagine that on Jan 1st, 1990,
human nature was repealed?
>when you could push the boundaries a little
Doing something JUST to "push the boundaries", if it otherwise makes no sense,
is generally a BAD idea. I could "push the boundaries" of locomotion by
attempting to reach the street from my attic by leaping out a window rather
than using the stairs, but I fear the consequences.
Daria would too.
Jordan S. Bassior
>Well actually Martin who are we to know what passes between a man and a
>Vulcan, those mind weld thingies can get pretty intense and guaranteed
>their not thinking about their shopping lists.
Perhaps not shopping lists, but why sex with one another? It's not like
shopping and sex are the only two possible topics of conversation :)
>And while we wax on Star
>Trek, it was the first mainstream T.V show that casted a black woman and
>an Asian guy without making it pivotal issue or giving them subordinate
>characters.
Yes. And featured the first inter-racial kiss on TV ... even if it was courtesy
of Evil Alien Telekinesis.
> It would be great to see the same sort of initiative taken in
>a popular mainstream cartoon like Daria!.
Yes, but it would be awful to see three seasons of careful characterization
tossed away for a cheap thrill. Why not pick someone whom we have no reason to
believe IS purely heterosexual to be homosexual, lesbian or bisexual? Such as:
Andrea (whom has never shown any interest in any males).
Quinn (who as far as we know doesn't really do anything with her dates).
Other FC members (who also date guys just for status, as far as we can tell).
Kevin (who has sometimes shown some distinctly ... um, odd ... leanings)
The Three J's (who pursue an unattainable female, and hang out together all the
time).
>In terms of perception... we always see what we want to see anyhow.
>Perception, after all, is subjective.
This sounds like the classic prelude to arguing in favor of the illogical.
>And why is bisexuality, according to
>you, a strange little fantasy? It may be strange to you, but it isn't to
>a lot of people... perception remember.
It's "strange" given the established personnae of Daria and Jane.
Jordan S. Bassior
>1) Daria and Jane have already mentioned they are not bisexual nor
>lesbians, as noted from Daria Day '98.
Yes. Jane repeats this statement in "Jane's Addition". And there have been
several instances of Daria and Jane displaying attraction towards men, none of
their displaying attraction towards women.
If we observed some sort of unknown animal that progressed by walking, and we
saw it walk all the time, and never fly, we would logically conclude that it is
a terrestrial animal, not a flyer. Now, we could be wrong ... it could
metamorphose or something ... but until it showed some sign of doing so, we
would be foolish to decide that it is a flying animal.
>2) Sexuality in the 90's includes all sexual orientations - bisexual,
>heterosexual, and homosexual.
And, indeed, it always has done so. The 1990's are different from earlier
decades solely in that admitting to non hetrosexual orientations is more
accepted. And of course, there have been other cultures in which it was ALWAYS
more accepted than in the 20th century West.
Jordan S. Bassior
>Damn! I must be horridly out of touch with sexuality in the 90's, since I'm
>not bisexual.
Give yourself three demerits. In the meantime, I'll try to convince Stephen to
start wearing dresses :)
>Of course I'm horridly out of touch with most things in the 90's, and
>very happy about that fact, too.
I liked the 90's ... the 1890's, that is ...
>Come to think of it, Daria acts pretty out of touch with "the '90s", caring
>neither for the "new" teaching methods and "self esteem" O'Neill preaches
>(very '90s) or with its pop culture for that matter (what tape did she give
Ted?
>The Beatles?)
Daria's a timeless sort of woman, in many ways. She's true to her own nature,
which is simply that of an intelligent, honest, decent human being ... and that
sort of personalty can exist in any decade, or century.
>Having Daria and Jane as bisexual would be a major incongruity in character,
>both having declared they are not and shown interest in the opposite sex, and
>I don't think we're big on major incongruities.
It's called "bad writing".
endless, nameless
>
> Reading some of your posts it seems that some of you would like to see
> Daria find herself a boyfriend. I can understand this but I would
> much rather see Daria and Jane realize their unspoken attraction to
> each other and admit they are bisexual.
errrrm.... i never noticed any unspoken attraction there..
> I mean why go the tried and
> tested way, which bears no relevance to sexuality in the 90's, when
> you could push the boundaries a little.
why is bisexuality any more relevant than heterosexuality?
--
·•alli•· { mailto:yan...@vossnet.co.uk }
{ http://voices.vossnet.co.uk/y/yannaco }
~*cool - groovey - morning - fine*~
Daria Code v1.1
Ap D T6 Wl Q+ FN^Fr
O++ Ow+OH+Of m c
MV-- C5--
F:108 BB FCD -DT- q fN
endless, nameless
>
> Martin J. Pollard wrote:
>
> > Is this the same logic that the original Star Trek slash fic writers
> > used to justify their contention that Kirk and Spock were secretly
> > homosexual lovers? ("Oh, my God! In 'Star Trek: The Motion Picture,'
> > Spock took Kirk's hand and said something about feelings! That's
> > proof enough for me!" Puh-leeze...)
>
> Vulcan, those mind weld thingies can get pretty intense and guaranteed
> Trek, it was the first mainstream T.V show that casted a black woman and
> an Asian guy without making it pivotal issue or giving them subordinate
> a popular mainstream cartoon like Daria!. The only problem I can see is
> that geeky boys like you will get their knickers in a knot because their
> meeting-a-girl-like-Daria/Jane fantasies have been thwarted. Conversely
> this could also have the opposite effect, cue the lesbian porn music.
the only problem i can see would be that it would stop
being "a show about a sarcastic unpopular teenage girl"
and become "a show about a teenage lesbian".
>
> > "If you look hard enough, you'll eventually see exactly what you want
> > to see, even if your mind has to invent it." Keep this truism in mind
> > when you watch the show, and you won't be bothered by these strange
> > little fantasies any longer.
>
> In terms of perception... we always see what we want to see anyhow.
> Perception, after all, is subjective. And why is bisexuality, according to
> you, a strange little fantasy?It may be strange to you, but it isn't to
> allot of people... perception remember.
--
endless, nameless
>
> >I mean why go the tried and
> >tested way, which bears no relevance to sexuality in the 90's, when
> >you could push the boundaries a little.
>
> very happy about that fact, too.
i'm bisexual. i have actually been accused of excessive trendiness
because of this. lol. IT'S NOT MY FAULT DAMNIT! ;)
>
> Come to think of it, Daria acts pretty out of touch with "the '90s", caring
> neither for the "new" teaching methods and "self esteem" O'Neill preaches (very
> '90s) or with its pop culture for that matter (what tape did she give Ted? The
> Beatles?)
>
> Having Daria and Jane as bisexual would be a major incongruity in character,
> both having declared they are not and shown interest in the opposite sex, and I
> don't think we're big on major incongruities.
>
> Dagny
>
> http://members.aol.com/Eccles9697
>
> "I'm not different for the sake of being different, only for the desperate sake
> of being myself. I can't join your gang: you'd think I was a phony and I'd know
> it." Vivian Stanshall
Jordan S. Bassior
>errrrm.... i never noticed any unspoken attraction there..
Right. Strong friendship, but no visible romantic or sexual attraction on
either side.
Jordan S. Bassior
>In any case, the producers of "Daria" haven't shown any interest in
>tackling the hot topics of the '90s, instead keeping to your basic
>universal topics; family relations, individuality, friendship, etc.
And have thus created a show that is about eternal issues, rather than merely
whatever happens to be "in" right NOW.
Jordan S. Bassior
>i'm bisexual. i have actually been accused of excessive trendiness
>because of this. lol. IT'S NOT MY FAULT DAMNIT! ;)
Heh ... I don't think you're "excessively trendy". I think you're just you, and
I like you.
Martin J. Pollard
<stim...@depechemode.com> wrote:
>You seem afraid that Jane or Daria may be lesbian/bisexual.
Oh, yeah, that's exactly what it is, all right. Boy, you certainly
have me pegged.
>That really sucks.
It does, but precisely *which* statement sucks (and who made it) is
not quite what you had in mind.
>Why would lesbianism/homosexualit be a "strange little fantasy"
>anyway?
Gee, I dunno. Possibly because of the overwhelming evidence to the
contrary through all three seasons of the show? Nah, that can't be
it...
>Damn homophobe.
Keep conclusions away from this guy, everyone. He apparently likes to
jump to them much too quickly.
Len Pitre
>Affinity said:
>
>>I don't think including bisexuality, which *is* a current reality, would be
>>any sort of push to be 'cool'.
>
>I have nothing against bisexuality or bisexuals. However, Daria and Jane are
>well established characters, and what has been established about them, while it
>does not make it IMPOSSIBLE for them to be bisexual, makes it improbable.
Agreed.
(Snip)
>
>>I agree with your notion of making ones own choices
>>that are true to the person, in fact that's the biggest message of the whole
>show.
>>But hell, these people are characters... their life choices are being made
>>by MTV executives.
>
>Yes, but that would be bad writing, because it's inconsistent with the
>characters as previously established, with no explanation given for the change
>in personality.
Indeed. Its too much of what you'd find in a soap opera. Mike learns that
his wife Susan is pregnant with the child of her
long-lost-formerly-joined-at-the-head-siamese-twin-sister-who-had-a-sex-change
-to-escape-the-mob-and-then-got-amnesia-so-she/he-doesn't-remember-who-she/he-
is. Next on "As Your Stomach Turns."
>..>> I could really rip that sentence apart further, but I like your text
>graphic
>>> signature thingie, so I'll let ya off easy :)
>>
>>Rip away, that's what it's there for... thanks I like it too.
>
>Ok ... ya asked for it ...
>
>>I mean why go the tried and tested way,
>
>Because it WORKS, while driving off the road often leads into smacking into a
>tree?
As they say, the road less taken is like that for a reason. Just because
homosexuality (or any other form of non-heterosexuality) isn't viewed as a
disease or a severe problem as much as it used to be doesn't mean that
everyone is homosexual. Maybe someone should organize a "straight pride"
parade....
(Over the past decade I've been accused of being or mistaken for both a
homosexual and a homophobe. Turns out they're all wrong. I'm not intolerant
of homosexuals, but I don't like them enough to date them.:)
>And incidentally, from everything we've seen in Daria's fantasies, romantically
>and sexually she is an extreme traditionalist. She fantasizes about love and
>sex within the context of or leading up to permanent marriage. Since Daria is
>NOT a blind conformist, we must conclude that she really likes the idea of
>spending the rest of her life with a man she loves.
And there's nothing wrong with that idea, even if some people would call it
too idealistic. Even the ideal happens at times. I'm sure that there's
thousands upon thousands of people like Daria who have similar dreams.
>>when you could push the boundaries a little
>
>Doing something JUST to "push the boundaries", if it otherwise makes no sense,
>is generally a BAD idea.
It's just being "edgy" and "90's" for the sake of being "edgy" and "90's". And
then when it screws up you can blame the network execs for not being "forward
thinking" even though the ratings have you ranked somewhere below the Chuck
Norris infomercials.
>I could "push the boundaries" of locomotion by
>attempting to reach the street from my attic by leaping out a window rather
>than using the stairs, but I fear the consequences.
Yeah. Push the envelope too far and you end up in the corner that gets
stamped.:)
Len
--
Pointless SIG file
Replace "Doom!" with "Hotmail" to send e-mail.
End pointless SIG file.
Greg Pallis
>
>
>Martin J. Pollard wrote:
>
>> Is this the same logic that the original Star Trek slash fic writers
>> used to justify their contention that Kirk and Spock were secretly
>> homosexual lovers? ("Oh, my God! In 'Star Trek: The Motion Picture,'
>> Spock took Kirk's hand and said something about feelings! That's
>> proof enough for me!" Puh-leeze...)
>
>Well actually Martin who are we to know what passes between a man and a
>Vulcan, those mind weld thingies can get pretty intense and guaranteed
>their not thinking about their shopping lists.And while we wax on Star
>Trek, it was the first mainstream T.V show that casted a black woman and
>an Asian guy without making it pivotal issue or giving them subordinate
>characters. It would be great to see the same sort of initiative taken in
>a popular mainstream cartoon like Daria!. The only problem I can see is
>that geeky boys like you will get their knickers in a knot because their
>meeting-a-girl-like-Daria/Jane fantasies have been thwarted.
A "boy" wearing "knickers"?
Yay! Now that's proper sexual deviation :)
http://www.geocities.com/TelevisionCity/Taping/3017/ -
The Daria Code
Jordan S. Bassior
>Indeed. Its too much of what you'd find in a soap opera. Mike learns that
>his wife Susan is pregnant with the child of her
>long-lost-formerly-joined-at-the-head-siamese-twin-sister-who-had-a-sex-change
>-to-escape-the-mob-and-then-got-amnesia-so-she/he-doesn't-remember-who-she/he-
>is. Next on "As Your Stomach Turns."
Yes. Soap operas do it cause they have 5 eps a week and "something" has to
happen in every episode. _Daria_ is under no similar pressure.
>As they say, the road less taken is like that for a reason. Just because
>homosexuality (or any other form of non-heterosexuality) isn't viewed as a
>disease or a severe problem as much as it used to be doesn't mean that
>everyone is homosexual. Maybe someone should organize a "straight pride"
>parade....
For Daria to have sex with a woman when she has no desire for love or sex with
any particular woman, just to say "look at what I did", would be truly
"perverse" in a way that has NOTHING to do with being gay. It would be being
deliberately self-destructive, and Daria isn't.
>And there's nothing wrong with that idea, even if some people would call it
>too idealistic. Even the ideal happens at times. I'm sure that there's
>thousands upon thousands of people like Daria who have similar dreams.
And often they come true. Wanting a loving relationship that leads to marriage,
with sex happening only when she's sure of being loved, isn't unrealistic by
any means.
Greg Pallis
>What he said *REALLY* went over your anal retentive little head.
>
>Dumb tuna.
Mute Tuna.
Blind Tuna.
Actually fairly tasty tuna, tho, even if cute l'il dolphins are killed in
catching it
Howling Lunatic
<lu...@camtech.net.au> wrote:
>
>
>Martin J. Pollard wrote:
>
>> Is this the same logic that the original Star Trek slash fic writers
>> used to justify their contention that Kirk and Spock were secretly
>> homosexual lovers? ("Oh, my God! In 'Star Trek: The Motion Picture,'
>> Spock took Kirk's hand and said something about feelings! That's
>> proof enough for me!" Puh-leeze...)
>
>Well actually Martin who are we to know what passes between a man and a
>Vulcan, those mind weld thingies can get pretty intense and guaranteed
>their not thinking about their shopping lists.And while we wax on Star
>Trek, it was the first mainstream T.V show that casted a black woman and
>an Asian guy without making it pivotal issue or giving them subordinate
>characters. It would be great to see the same sort of initiative taken in
>a popular mainstream cartoon like Daria!. The only problem I can see is
>that geeky boys like you will get their knickers in a knot because their
>meeting-a-girl-like-Daria/Jane fantasies have been thwarted. Conversely
>this could also have the opposite effect, cue the lesbian porn music.
>
Here's your problem. I can see it right here. You don't want Daria
and Jane to have sexual feelings for each other because you think it
would be an interesting plot, or because it is in line with their
character.
You are using it to push your social agenda. Basically, you have
turned Daria into political fodder.
Kyle, The Manny Alexander of alt.sports.baseball.chicago.cubs
"Kissing is touching your lips to the better end of 66 feet of intestine"
Howling Lunatic
<lu...@camtech.net.au> wrote:
>
>
>Jordan S. Bassior wrote:
>
>> Affinity said:
>>
>> >I can understand this but I would
>> >much rather see Daria and Jane realize their unspoken attraction to
>> >each other and admit they are bisexual.
>
><snipped for brevity>
>
>> Finally, Jane has STATED she "likes guys too much" to be homosexual. (She once
>> claimed to be gay, but that was not only clearly a joke, but was pointed out as
>> such by Daria and Jane in their very next lines).
>
>Blame that on MTV skirting around an issue that they don't have the courage to
>tackle.
>
I've already said it once, but as I go down the thread, here it is
again.
This is not about Daria. This is about politics and personal opinions
of morality.
Howling Lunatic
Pollard) wrote:
>On Sun, 05 Sep 1999 02:04:43 -0700, stimpsy
><stim...@depechemode.com> wrote:
>>Damn homophobe.
>
>Keep conclusions away from this guy, everyone. He apparently likes to
>jump to them much too quickly.
Mindless name-calling by people we barely know on one of the most
respected members of the Daria online community? Who's gonna win this
one?
Besides, as far as I know, I am the only damn homophobe on ATD
Howling Lunatic
(Lone Wolf) wrote:
>On Sun, 05 Sep 1999 13:29:59 +1030, "<Affinity>"
><lu...@camtech.net.au> wrote:
>
>>Reading some of your posts it seems that some of you would like to see
>>Daria find herself a boyfriend. I can understand this but I would
>>much rather see Daria and Jane realize their unspoken attraction to
>>each other and admit they are bisexual. I mean why go the tried and
>>tested way, which bears no relevance to sexuality in the 90's, when
>>you could push the boundaries a little.
>
>I'd like to see Daria in any sort of relationship... straight, bi, or
>gay.
>
>Long as it's not with Upchuck.
>
>-----
Upchuck's my first choice!
Howling Lunatic
Pitre) wrote:
>Jordan S. Bassior wrote:
>>Affinity said:
>Indeed. Its too much of what you'd find in a soap opera. Mike learns that
>his wife Susan is pregnant with the child of her
>long-lost-formerly-joined-at-the-head-siamese-twin-sister-who-had-a-sex-change
>-to-escape-the-mob-and-then-got-amnesia-so-she/he-doesn't-remember-who-she/he-
>is. Next on "As Your Stomach Turns."
>
This one's going into the old archives!
Howling Lunatic
<lu...@camtech.net.au> wrote:
>
>
>Jeg7777 wrote:
>
>> Reading some of your posts it seems that some of you would like to see
>> > Daria find herself a boyfriend. I can understand this but I would
>> > much rather see Daria and Jane realize their unspoken attraction to
>> > each other and admit they are bisexual.
>>
>> That's right. Everyone who has a close friend of the same gender should
>> realize their unspoken attraction to each other and admit they're
>> bisexual.
>
>Exactly, the undercurrents of desire are strange and intangible. Only when
>they are acted out do they shrug off the inhibitive factors of the psyche
>slash society, I'm glad you agree with me.Freud would indeed be proud.
>
>>
Freud was a flaming idiot. Freud's theories are based entirely on his
interaction with his patients (who tended to be middle-aged victorian
women) of a specific culture. They can't be extended to an entire
species.
Howling Lunatic
<remove....@vossnet.co.uk> wrote:
>Dagny Scott wrote:
>>
>> >I mean why go the tried and
>> >tested way, which bears no relevance to sexuality in the 90's, when
>> >you could push the boundaries a little.
>>
>> Damn! I must be horridly out of touch with sexuality in the 90's, since I'm not
>> bisexual. Of course I'm horridly out of touch with most things in the 90's, and
>> very happy about that fact, too.
>
>i'm bisexual. i have actually been accused of excessive trendiness
>because of this. lol. IT'S NOT MY FAULT DAMNIT! ;)
>
>>
*grins an evil Christian grin*
No. I'll stay out of this one.
Martin J. Pollard
Lunatic) wrote:
>On Sun, 05 Sep 1999 04:26:34 GMT, power...@SPAMEATSMYASSerols.com
>(Lone Wolf) wrote:
>
>>I'd like to see Daria in any sort of relationship... straight, bi, or
>>gay.
>>
>>Long as it's not with Upchuck.
>
>Upchuck's my first choice!
The secret's out! You're an Upchuck shipper!
"Upchuck?! Ewww...!" - Tiffany, "Jake of Hearts"
Dagny Scott
>>attempting to reach the street from my attic by leaping out a window rather
>>than using the stairs, but I fear the consequences.
>
>Yeah. Push the envelope too far and you end up in the corner that gets
>stamped.:)
When many people today talk about "pushing the envelope", unfortunately all you
find in there is junk mail... (lazy paraphrase from Robert Weide on
alt.books.kurt-vonnegut)
Howling Lunatic
Pollard) wrote:
>On 5 Sep 1999 20:07:40 GMT, herecome...@hockeymail.com (Howling
>Lunatic) wrote:
>
>>On Sun, 05 Sep 1999 04:26:34 GMT, power...@SPAMEATSMYASSerols.com
>>(Lone Wolf) wrote:
>>
>>>I'd like to see Daria in any sort of relationship... straight, bi, or
>>>gay.
>>>
>>>Long as it's not with Upchuck.
>>
>>Upchuck's my first choice!
>
>The secret's out! You're an Upchuck shipper!
>
>"Upchuck?! Ewww...!" - Tiffany, "Jake of Hearts"
>
>
Secret? I've been campaigning for this for over a year.
Martin Sylvester
Jordan S. Bassior wrote in message
<19990905115911...@ng-cl1.aol.com>...
[...]
>Yes. And featured the first inter-racial kiss on TV ... even if it was
courtesy
>of Evil Alien Telekinesis.
Perhaps on *American* TV. ISTR seeing, in a TV documentary, something about
the first inter-racial kiss on a UK TV play in the late 50s or early 60s:
I'm under the impression this was before "Star Trek."
Martin.
--
I don't intend to imply any views expressed above reflect the policy of any
organisation.
(Sig under maintenance)
Jeg7777
> What he said *REALLY* went over your anal retentive little head.
No, what he said was moronic. But not as moronic as what you spewed.
<plonk on both of you!>
--
Joe
*********************************************************************
"Meet the cannibal with a heart....quick! Before he eats it! Next on
'Sick Sad World!'" ---from Daria, "Just Add Water"
Michelle Klein-Hass
<news...@xerez.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> ISTM they've concentrated more on what ought to be a hot topic but
> never has been (and probably never will be), namely why society in
> general thinks it's cool to ostracise people for being intelligent and
> independently minded.
Actually Littleton, CO has made this a VERY HOT TOPIC.
>
> It is so sickening that when shows and movies actually do deal with
> people who are different, the "happy ending" almost invariably has them
> abandon their interesting and original identities in favour of become
> good little conformists.
It pisses me off too.
--.\\<-H--
--
DariaCode(tm) 1.1 (gold)
Ap D T10 Ww Q+ Ff^Fr
On m++ c MV--
F:111,211,308 BB++ FCD/J -DT-(in spite of my fics) q+ fN
What does this mean? Find out here... http://www.geocities.com/TelevisionCity/Taping/3017/Daria_Code.txt
Get rid of the "NOPE" and change the other caps into numbers and that's my address...sorry about the spamblock.
endless, nameless
>
> Alli said:
>
> >i'm bisexual. i have actually been accused of excessive trendiness
> >because of this. lol. IT'S NOT MY FAULT DAMNIT! ;)
>
> I like you.
well thank you. lol.
she who is drunk again,
endless, nameless
>
> On Sun, 05 Sep 1999 18:06:17 +0100, "endless, nameless"
> <remove....@vossnet.co.uk> wrote:
>
> >Dagny Scott wrote:
> >>
> >> >I mean why go the tried and
> >> >tested way, which bears no relevance to sexuality in the 90's, when
> >> >you could push the boundaries a little.
> >>
> >> Damn! I must be horridly out of touch with sexuality in the 90's, since I'm not
> >> bisexual. Of course I'm horridly out of touch with most things in the 90's, and
> >> very happy about that fact, too.
> >
> >because of this. lol. IT'S NOT MY FAULT DAMNIT! ;)
> >
> >>
>
>
> No. I'll stay out of this one.
>
you do that!! ;P
(coincediently i'm halfd-way thruogh reading "oranges are not
the only fruit")
Howling Lunatic
<remove....@vossnet.co.uk> wrote:
>Howling Lunatic wrote:
>>
>> On Sun, 05 Sep 1999 18:06:17 +0100, "endless, nameless"
>> <remove....@vossnet.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>> >Dagny Scott wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >I mean why go the tried and
>> >> >tested way, which bears no relevance to sexuality in the 90's, when
>> >> >you could push the boundaries a little.
>> >>
>> >> Damn! I must be horridly out of touch with sexuality in the 90's, since I'm not
>> >> bisexual. Of course I'm horridly out of touch with most things in the 90's, and
>> >> very happy about that fact, too.
>> >
>> >i'm bisexual. i have actually been accused of excessive trendiness
>> >because of this. lol. IT'S NOT MY FAULT DAMNIT! ;)
>> >
>> >>
>>
>> *grins an evil Christian grin*
>>
>> No. I'll stay out of this one.
>>
>
>you do that!! ;P
>
Ok, I will!
>
>(coincediently i'm halfd-way thruogh reading "oranges are not
>the only fruit")
>
I dunno what that is, care to explain?
>--
>·•alli•· { mailto:yan...@vossnet.co.uk }
>{ http://voices.vossnet.co.uk/y/yannaco }
> ~*I'm only bi-sexual because Kyle's strongly feminine!*~
Shez
> the producers of "Daria" haven't shown any interest in
>tackling the hot topics of the '90s, instead keeping to your basic
>universal topics; family relations, individuality, friendship, etc.
ISTM they've concentrated more on what ought to be a hot topic but
never has been (and probably never will be), namely why society in
general thinks it's cool to ostracise people for being intelligent and
independently minded.
It is so sickening that when shows and movies actually do deal with
people who are different, the "happy ending" almost invariably has them
abandon their interesting and original identities in favour of become
good little conformists. Daria stands out as being a show which not only
treats Darian types with the integrity they deserve, but also tells the truth
about how life is for such people -- the final scene in The Lab Brat
being a good example, where the ever-so-grateful Kevin tells Daria he's
having a party and that he'd like to invite ....... Quinn.
Were Daria to become a lesbian, the central theme of the show would
be lost, because if you attach the label of a high-profile minority group
to her she will cease to be a lone voice against the social order.
In joining a recognised subculture she would become part of the very
social milieu that she has experienced mutual repulsion with.
-Shez.
--
____________________________________________________________
Shouldn't there be a shorter word for monosyllabic?
____________________________________________________________
Take a break at the Last Stop Cafe at <URL: http://www.xerez.demon.co.uk/>
Howling Lunatic
wrote:
>Tice Rust <rus...@jmu.edu> writes:
>> the producers of "Daria" haven't shown any interest in
>>tackling the hot topics of the '90s, instead keeping to your basic
>>universal topics; family relations, individuality, friendship, etc.
>
>ISTM they've concentrated more on what ought to be a hot topic but
>never has been (and probably never will be), namely why society in
>general thinks it's cool to ostracise people for being intelligent and
>independently minded.
>
Amen! Intelligent people should be the one's DOING the ostracizing!
WWDD?
Violator's Toad
herecome...@hockeymail.com (Howling Lunatic) wrote:
> On Sun, 05 Sep 1999 16:49:37 -0400, nos...@lawndale.net (Martin J.
> Pollard) wrote:
>
> >On 5 Sep 1999 20:07:40 GMT, herecome...@hockeymail.com (Howling
> >Lunatic) wrote:
> >
> >>On Sun, 05 Sep 1999 04:26:34 GMT, power...@SPAMEATSMYASSerols.com
> >>(Lone Wolf) wrote:
> >>
> >>>I'd like to see Daria in any sort of relationship... straight, bi,
or
> >>>gay.
> >>>
> >>>Long as it's not with Upchuck.
> >>
> >>Upchuck's my first choice!
> >
> >The secret's out! You're an Upchuck shipper!
> >
> >"Upchuck?! Ewww...!" - Tiffany, "Jake of Hearts"
> >
> >
>
> Secret? I've been campaigning for this for over a year.
Ooooh oooh oooh! Can I join the "Upchuck Shipper Brigade" too? :) He
reminds me of one of my good friends that I tease constantly...and Daria
and Upchuck would be just "too cute" together!
-----> Violator's Toad <-----
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Share what you know. Learn what you don't.
endless, nameless
>
> On Mon, 06 Sep 1999 00:35:45 +0100, "endless, nameless"
> <remove....@vossnet.co.uk> wrote:
>
> >Howling Lunatic wrote:
> >>
> >> On Sun, 05 Sep 1999 18:06:17 +0100, "endless, nameless"
> >> <remove....@vossnet.co.uk> wrote:
> >>
> >> >Dagny Scott wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> >I mean why go the tried and
> >> >> >tested way, which bears no relevance to sexuality in the 90's, when
> >> >> >you could push the boundaries a little.
> >> >>
> >> >> Damn! I must be horridly out of touch with sexuality in the 90's, since I'm not
> >> >> bisexual. Of course I'm horridly out of touch with most things in the 90's, and
> >> >> very happy about that fact, too.
> >> >
> >> >i'm bisexual. i have actually been accused of excessive trendiness
> >> >because of this. lol. IT'S NOT MY FAULT DAMNIT! ;)
> >> >
> >> >>
> >>
> >> *grins an evil Christian grin*
> >>
> >> No. I'll stay out of this one.
> >>
> >
> >you do that!! ;P
> >
>
> Ok, I will!
>
> >
> >(coincediently i'm halfd-way thruogh reading "oranges are not
> >the only fruit")
apologies for the appalling typing here...
> >
>
> I dunno what that is, care to explain?
a book, about a christian girl, with a VERY christian mother,
who (the girl, not the mother) at some point i haven't reached
yet starts falling in love with other girls.
>
> >--
> >ｷ病lli聞 { mailto:yan...@vossnet.co.uk }
> >{ http://voices.vossnet.co.uk/y/yannaco }
> > ~*I'm only bi-sexual because Kyle's strongly feminine!*~
;)
>
> Kyle, The Manny Alexander of alt.sports.baseball.chicago.cubs
>
> "Kissing is touching your lips to the better end of 66 feet of intestine"
--
ｷ病lli聞 { mailto:yan...@vossnet.co.uk }
Jordan S. Bassior
>ISTM they've concentrated more on what ought to be a hot topic but
>never has been (and probably never will be), namely why society in
>general thinks it's cool to ostracise people for being intelligent and
>independently minded.
Absolutely correct. Both about the focus of the show and the phenomenon it
describes. It _should_ be a hot topic because it originates from our primate
past (expel the different from the band) and restricts our cultural growth very
badly (when the "different" is in fact "superior", such expulsion harms society
as a whole).
Historically, the reason why first Holland, then Britain, then America
succeeded was because they had developed a greater degree of tolerance for the
(competent) different. The scary thing, when you look at the level of
intolerance towards non-conformists in modern America, is that we are actually
the most tolerant society Mankind has yet produced!
It won't be "hot" because at the root of the intolerance of intelligence is
envy; this envy is very common, and people don't like to be reminded that they
are feeling such an emotion. They would rather be told that they are feeling
their revlusion against intelligent non-conformity for some more honest or
rational reason ... the smart are practical bumblers (the Absent-Minded
Professor), cowards (the classic "nerd" stereotype), socially helpless (Urkel),
evil (the Mad Scientist), or just plain dangerous psychoes (the Serial Killer).
>It is so sickening that when shows and movies actually do deal with
>people who are different, the "happy ending" almost invariably has them
>abandon their interesting and original identities in favour of become
>good little conformists.
Yes. "Wow, now that I've given up everything that made me ME, I am SO much
happier!" I hate those types of endings.
>Daria stands out as being a show which not only
>treats Darian types with the integrity they deserve, but also tells the truth
>about how life is for such people
And quite honestly, too. Actually, Daria's better off than a lot of such
people, because she is very strong-willed and hence doesn't let people push her
around. She was taught this virtue by Helen. Misfits who aren't as
strong-willed often have hellish adolescences.
>Were Daria to become a lesbian, the central theme of the show would
>be lost, because if you attach the label of a high-profile minority group
>to her she will cease to be a lone voice against the social order.
>In joining a recognised subculture she would become part of the very
>social milieu that she has experienced mutual repulsion with.
Exactly. The very reason why Daria is something of a "generic" intellectual
non-conformist is that she is symbolic of us all. Plus, for her to become a
lesbian out of the blue, with no foreshadowing, would be truly inept character
development, and totally destroy the character's believability.
paperpusher
>The reason I like Daria so much is because she is the only character on
>TV I relate to. Actually, she's probably the only person in the whole
>world I relate to right now, and that's pretty sad. :) We have many
>similarities that I won't even begin to go into right now, but
>bisexuality is definately NOT one of them. In my humble opinion, I
>would be somewhat disturbed by your proposed change in plot line and
>would probably be less likely to watch the show. I appologize for my
>apparent homophobia, but I'll just blame it on upbringing right now.
>Besides, if you think Daria and Jane are bi just because they're
>close friends, what about Fred Flintstone and Barney Rubble? Betty and
>Wilma? Charlie Brown and Linus? Scooby and Shaggy (bi-species as
>well!!!)? Doug and Skeeter? Bevis and Butthead? No offense, but your
>logic is a tad flawed...
I just had a rush of sounds from the past, and now I can put an
entirely new spin on them. And I will refrain from making any
salacious comments on Scooby and Shaggy. ;-)
>What's the deal with the sudden obsession with turning "Daria" into a
>pot-headed, sex-crazed soap opera? If you want to see a cartoon like
>that, it looks like Downtown may be headed in that direction. (I only
>saw one ep though...so I can't really tell.)
No, "Downtown" is aimed more at the "Toy-Hoarding Loser" demographic.
;-) I like it, even though I don't hoard toys anymore. It's
actually a pretty good toon-- well-written, cool character design,
neat fantasy sequences, good NYC feel to it, and excellent pacing in
the dialogue. Right now, it's my 2nd favorite cartoon on TV. (Hey,
whay can I say-- I like Alex. I even relate to Alex a little. But I
relate to Jodie and Daria more. ;-) And I've said it before, I'll say
it again-- I *know* Goat. Scary.
rich.
Jane: Usually when I have this dream I'm wearing pink taffeta.
http://paperpusher.simplenet.com
(remove blah and numbers to send email)
Daria Geek Code v.1.10
Ap D+ T10 Ww Q++ Ff^Fr
O OH+Oo+Os+Od m+ c++ MV- C5X
F:113,213,313 BB+ FCD/J ++DT q fa
Shez
>"endless, nameless"<remove....@vossnet.co.uk> wrote:
>>(coincediently i'm halfd-way thruogh reading "oranges are not
>>the only fruit")
>
It's a story about a girl whose family only ever eat oranges, and one day
she discovers that there are other types of fruit too, and what's more
she's one of them. I saw the film, it was pretty good.
-Shez.
--
____________________________________________________________
Succumb to natural tendencies. Be hateful and boring.
Shez
writes:
> Shez<news...@xerez.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>> ISTM they've concentrated more on what ought to be a hot topic but
>> never has been (and probably never will be), namely why society in
>> general thinks it's cool to ostracise people for being intelligent and
>> independently minded.
>
I got the impression though that it was just seen as an excuse to
persecute misfits even more, like banning trenchcoats and goths for
instance. Rather than enquiring into whether maybe people were being
victimised too much in the first place.
Howling Lunatic
(Michelle Klein-Hass) wrote:
>In article <pQHRVCAI...@xerez.demon.co.uk>, Shez
><news...@xerez.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>> ISTM they've concentrated more on what ought to be a hot topic but
>> never has been (and probably never will be), namely why society in
>> general thinks it's cool to ostracise people for being intelligent and
>> independently minded.
>
>Actually Littleton, CO has made this a VERY HOT TOPIC.
>
As far as I can tell, the media is busily trying to brush it under the
carpet.
Howling Lunatic
wrote:
>Michelle Klein-Hass <NOPEmhassS...@flashcom.net
>writes:
>> Shez<news...@xerez.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>> ISTM they've concentrated more on what ought to be a hot topic but
>>> never has been (and probably never will be), namely why society in
>>> general thinks it's cool to ostracise people for being intelligent and
>>> independently minded.
>>
>>Actually Littleton, CO has made this a VERY HOT TOPIC.
>
>I got the impression though that it was just seen as an excuse to
>persecute misfits even more, like banning trenchcoats and goths for
>instance. Rather than enquiring into whether maybe people were being
>victimised too much in the first place.
>
True, to a point. But you have to admit that it takes a certain kind
of person to do something like that. I have, in the past, told school
mates of mine that I may not be the most amiable person, but they ARE
lucky I'm not crazy.
Lone Wolf
(Michelle Klein-Hass) wrote:
>In article <pQHRVCAI...@xerez.demon.co.uk>, Shez
><news...@xerez.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>> ISTM they've concentrated more on what ought to be a hot topic but
>> never has been (and probably never will be), namely why society in
>> general thinks it's cool to ostracise people for being intelligent and
>> independently minded.
>
>Actually Littleton, CO has made this a VERY HOT TOPIC.
Great bit on The Simpsons tonight...
"So, you ever go on a rampage with an automatic weapon?"
"No... postal clerks going on shooting sprees went out with the
macarena."
"Glad I work in an elementary school."
-----
Lone Wolf
I'm rooting for the crocodile.
"You are American?"
"No, I'm Canadian... that's like an American without
the gun."
- KitH
Lone Wolf
Lunatic) wrote:
>On Sun, 05 Sep 1999 19:12:29 -0700, NOPEmhassS...@flashcom.net
>(Michelle Klein-Hass) wrote:
>
>>In article <pQHRVCAI...@xerez.demon.co.uk>, Shez
>><news...@xerez.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>> ISTM they've concentrated more on what ought to be a hot topic but
>>> never has been (and probably never will be), namely why society in
>>> general thinks it's cool to ostracise people for being intelligent and
>>> independently minded.
>>
>>Actually Littleton, CO has made this a VERY HOT TOPIC.
>>
>
>As far as I can tell, the media is busily trying to brush it under the
>carpet.
Hurm... I thought they were trying to blame everything on Marilyn
Manson, KMFDM, and Dungeons and Dragons.
Say.,.. THAT'S what they need at Lawndale... a D & D club.
Just hope to hell they don't blow it too out of proportion... most of
us rarely play the game in full midieval attire... and we're not all
honor students and chess club geeks, either. ;)
Lone Wolf
(paperpusher) wrote:
>I just had a rush of sounds from the past, and now I can put an
>entirely new spin on them. And I will refrain from making any
>salacious comments on Scooby and Shaggy. ;-)
I've seen some pictures on the cartoon erotica newsgroup...
uh... I'll just quiet down now.
>No, "Downtown" is aimed more at the "Toy-Hoarding Loser" demographic.
I've tried watching a few times, but I just can't get into it. Is
anyone here a fan?
Give me Liquid Television... I loved that show. Especially Crazy Daisy
Ed.
Jordan S. Bassior
>Say.,.. THAT'S what they need at Lawndale... a D & D club.
I think there is one and Upchuck's in it ... or at least such was hinted at one
episode, I think "This Was Then". I wonder who else might be into that kind of
thing ... oddly enough, I could easily see Andrea liking role-playing games.
Bob Ohler
>> ISTM they've concentrated more on what ought to be a hot topic but
>> never has been (and probably never will be), namely why society in
>> general thinks it's cool to ostracise people for being intelligent and
>> independently minded.
>
>Actually Littleton, CO has made this a VERY HOT TOPIC.
>
>persecute misfits even more, like banning trenchcoats and goths for
>instance. Rather than enquiring into whether maybe people were being
>victimised too much in the first place.
of course, nothing I've heard about the attackers at Littleton has led me to
believe they were especially inteligent.
--
"Doesn't ANYONE in this town wear pants?"
~Helen, Daria! The Musical
"I've seen more people collapse this week..."
~Daria, Jake of Hearts
"I've always dreamed of the day my picture
would hang in a nuthouse."
~Daria, Once Opon a Nut
visit my no-thrills Daria fanfic site at:
http://www.fortunecity.com/lavender/wildbill/155/dmain.html
The artist formerly known as Crazy Nutso
Since no one reads down this far anyway...
The Daria Code: v1.1
AP D+ T0 Ww Q+ Fw^FR
O Ow m+ c++ MV- C5X
F:112,F:201,F:306 BB FCJ DT q fJ^fD
Bob Ohler
>Affinity said:
<snip star trek stuff>
>> It would be great to see the same sort of initiative taken in
>>a popular mainstream cartoon like Daria!.
>Yes, but it would be awful to see three seasons of careful characterization
>tossed away for a cheap thrill. Why not pick someone whom we have no reason
to
>believe IS purely heterosexual to be homosexual, lesbian or bisexual? Such
as:
>
>Andrea (whom has never shown any interest in any males).
>
>Quinn (who as far as we know doesn't really do anything with her dates).
>Other FC members (who also date guys just for status, as far as we can
tell).
actually their is a fanfic called Friends are so Alarming by The UAWCPM
which features this very thing.
Bob Ohler
>Mindless name-calling by people we barely know on one of the most
>respected members of the Daria online community? Who's gonna win this
>one?
yeah those guys don't even rate any "FRESH FISH"!
>Besides, as far as I know, I am the only damn homophobe on ATD
every group needs at least one so we can feel superior. :>}
Bob Ohler
>I just had a rush of sounds from the past, and now I can put an
>entirely new spin on them. And I will refrain from making any
>salacious comments on Scooby and Shaggy. ;-)
or Dr Quest and Race Bannon. (they were the cartoon world's first gay
couple, you know)
--
I always dreamed of the day
my picture would hang
in a nuthouse
~Daria, "Once Upon a Nut"
Get Paid to surf the net!
sound like a scam? check:
http://www.fortunecity.com/lavender/wildbill/155/alladvant.htm
for the inside poop
Crazy Nutso
this is not spam
other sig too freaking big!!
Martin J. Pollard
(Lone Wolf) wrote:
>On Mon, 06 Sep 1999 02:47:45 GMT, rich9...@paperpusher.simplenet.com
>(paperpusher) wrote:
>
>>I just had a rush of sounds from the past, and now I can put an
>>entirely new spin on them. And I will refrain from making any
>>salacious comments on Scooby and Shaggy. ;-)
>
>I've seen some pictures on the cartoon erotica newsgroup...
>
>uh... I'll just quiet down now.
The day I see an erotic Daria picture (and yeah, I'm sure they're out
there) is the day I go Columbine on someone. The last thing I need is
for my image of this wonderful show to be trashed in such a sleazy
manner.
Martin
(send all e-mail to "mar...@lawndale.net")
+--------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Quinn: When they got nervous, they'd drink cocoa. |
| Helen: Now, sweetie, there's nothing to worry about. (door slams) |
| Looters! |
+--------------------------------------------------------------------+
Outpost Daria: Your Online Database for All Things Daria!
http://www.lawndale.net -OR- http://systech.simplenet.com/daria/
Howling Lunatic
Pollard) wrote:
>On Mon, 06 Sep 1999 03:28:28 GMT, power...@SPAMEATSMYASSerols.com
>(Lone Wolf) wrote:
>
>>On Mon, 06 Sep 1999 02:47:45 GMT, rich9...@paperpusher.simplenet.com
>>(paperpusher) wrote:
>>
>>>I just had a rush of sounds from the past, and now I can put an
>>>entirely new spin on them. And I will refrain from making any
>>>salacious comments on Scooby and Shaggy. ;-)
>>
>>I've seen some pictures on the cartoon erotica newsgroup...
>>
>>uh... I'll just quiet down now.
>
>The day I see an erotic Daria picture (and yeah, I'm sure they're out
>there) is the day I go Columbine on someone. The last thing I need is
>for my image of this wonderful show to be trashed in such a sleazy
>manner.
There were links to a nude Daria and Quinn on the board over a year
ago.
paperpusher
>Paperpusher wrote:
>>I just had a rush of sounds from the past, and now I can put an
>>entirely new spin on them. And I will refrain from making any
>>salacious comments on Scooby and Shaggy. ;-)
>
>or Dr Quest and Race Bannon. (they were the cartoon world's first gay
>couple, you know)
You know, I always wondered why Race hung around with Dr. Quest. In
that light, it makes perfect sense. "Why Jonny Has Two Daddies,"
indeed. ;-)
rich.
(who's beginning to rethink the whole "single dad" thing from 60s
TV...)
Quinn: People are so weird!
Daria: Some are weird. Some are just astonishingly self-centered and deceitful.
<Affinity>
Jordan S. Bassior wrote:
>
>
> Historically, the reason why first Holland, then Britain, then America
> succeeded was because they had developed a greater degree of tolerance for the
> (competent) different. The scary thing, when you look at the level of
> intolerance towards non-conformists in modern America, is that we are actually
> the most tolerant society Mankind has yet produced!
In all actuality the reason why Holland, Britain and America succeeded was based
on the negation of difference. Pan back to the Enlightenment, the three rationales
behind this movement were Progress, Reason and the expansion of global trade,
basically a precursor to Capitalism. When these countries decided to expand their
empires outward, they realized that they would be encountering and negotiating
with other cultures, this process is now referred to as colonialism. In order to
rationalize a colonialist invasion the people of other cultures were compared to
the colonialists using the yard stick of Progress and Rationalism. This in turn
set up the ''primitive' vs 'civilized' dichotomy, which while creating a seemingly
valid reason for cultural and real genocide, also validated the current thinking
of the time (Enlightenment theories) at the top of the hierarchy. So in fact,
these three countries while purporting tolerance, were most manifest in creating
the hierarchy of the 'other'.
>
>
> It won't be "hot" because at the root of the intolerance of intelligence is
> envy; this envy is very common, and people don't like to be reminded that they
> are feeling such an emotion. They would rather be told that they are feeling
> their revlusion against intelligent non-conformity for some more honest or
> rational reason ... the smart are practical bumblers (the Absent-Minded
> Professor), cowards (the classic "nerd" stereotype), socially helpless (Urkel),
> evil (the Mad Scientist), or just plain dangerous psychoes (the Serial Killer).
Envy may well play a part in the intolerance of intelligence, but at the same
time, I would argue that this intolerance is based on what ever social value are
popular at the time. Currently, our society gives more credence to the
accumulation of wealth than to the richness of independent thought. To be able to
stand out side (theoretically) and independently critique the social structure is
something that a lot of people become uncomfortable with, because it basically
threatens their assumed value systems.
>
>
> And quite honestly, too. Actually, Daria's better off than a lot of such
> people, because she is very strong-willed and hence doesn't let people push her
> around. She was taught this virtue by Helen. Misfits who aren't as
> strong-willed often have hellish adolescences.
Even if you are strong willed, this doesn't douse the flames, if anything it makes
the struggle to be an independent thinker more of a challenge.
>
--
___
/\ \
/::\ \
/:/\:\ \
/:/ /::\ \
/:/_/:/\:\__\
\:\/:/ \/__/
\::/__/ffinity...
\:\ \
\:\__\
\/__/
<Affinity>
Shez wrote:
> Michelle Klein-Hass <NOPEmhassS...@flashcom.net
> writes:
> > Shez<news...@xerez.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> >> ISTM they've concentrated more on what ought to be a hot topic but
> >> never has been (and probably never will be), namely why society in
> >> general thinks it's cool to ostracise people for being intelligent and
> >> independently minded.
> >
> >Actually Littleton, CO has made this a VERY HOT TOPIC.
>
> I got the impression though that it was just seen as an excuse to
> persecute misfits even more, like banning trenchcoats and goths for
> instance. Rather than enquiring into whether maybe people were being
> victimised too much in the first place.
I agree with you, the media tends always to relish expounding on the surface
quality of a 'good' news item. It is much easier to think that computer games
and the like are informing our kids actions, than it is to really peel back
the layers and look at the bullshit that our society is based on i.e.
conformity, hypocrisy and hatred.
Jordan S. Bassior
>I agree with you, the media tends always to relish expounding on the surface
>quality of a 'good' news item. It is much easier to think that computer games
>and the like are informing our kids actions, than it is to really peel back
>the layers and look at the bullshit that our society is based on i.e.
>conformity, hypocrisy and hatred.
Absolutely. They focus on the proximate cause, or sometimes simply the
STYLISTIC cause "video games", and ignore the deeper question of why murder
seemed like a reasonable option to the kids in the first place.
Martin J. Pollard
Lunatic) wrote:
>On Mon, 06 Sep 1999 00:56:35 -0400, nos...@lawndale.net (Martin J.
>Pollard) wrote:
>
>>The day I see an erotic Daria picture (and yeah, I'm sure they're out
>>there) is the day I go Columbine on someone. The last thing I need is
>>for my image of this wonderful show to be trashed in such a sleazy
>>manner.
>
>There were links to a nude Daria and Quinn on the board over a year
>ago.
And as far as I'm concerned, they can stay in the past where they
belong. Those are makeovers that I do *NOT* want to see!
Jordan S. Bassior
>In all actuality the reason why Holland, Britain and America succeeded was
>based on the negation of difference.
I'm not sure what you mean by "the negation of difference", but all three
countries were more tolerant of internal non-conformity than most human
cultures have been historically. If you search for some hypothetically more
"tolerant" cultures than the ones I've named, you search in vain.
>Pan back to the Enlightenment, the three rationales
>behind this movement were Progress, Reason and the expansion of global trade,
>basically a precursor to Capitalism. When these countries decided to expand
>their empires outward, they realized that they would be encountering and
>negotiating with other cultures, this process is now referred to as
colonialism.
Actually the original "colonialists" were the Spanish and Portuguese, and their
hostility towards non-European civilizations came from fanatical Christianity
honed against the Moslems in the Reconquista and in later Mediterranean naval
wars. They were equally cruel, btw, to their fellow-Europeans who competed with
them to explore the New World.
>In order to
>rationalize a colonialist invasion the people of other cultures were compared
>to the colonialists using the yard stick of Progress and Rationalism.
This happened later, in the 18th century. In the 15th - 17th centuries, the
mere fact that Europeans were Christian and non-Europeans generally weren't was
seen as reason enough to despise the non-Europeans.
>This in turn
>set up the ''primitive' vs 'civilized' dichotomy, which while creating a
seemingly
>valid reason for cultural and real genocide, also validated the current
>thinking of the time (Enlightenment theories) at the top of the hierarchy.
The Enlightenment philosohy, however, included egalitarianism. The reason why
elaborate arguments about "civilized vs. primitive" and ultimately "superior
vs. inferior" races replaced the old, simple "They are not like us so we can
hurt them and it's ok" arguments is that people were becoming more morally
sohisticated.
>So in fact,
>these three countries while purporting tolerance, were most manifest > in
creating the hierarchy of the 'other'.
It was precisely BECAUSE of their growing internal tolerance that they needed
elaborate reasons to justify external intolerance.
>Envy may well play a part in the intolerance of intelligence, but at the same
>time, I would argue that this intolerance is based on what ever social value
>are popular at the time.
On the school level, envy is the main motivator.
>Currently, our society gives more credence to the
>accumulation of wealth than to the richness of independent thought.
Independent thinkers often become wealthy, though. And wealth, btw, is
produced, not just "accumulated".
>To be able to
>stand out side (theoretically) and independently critique the social
>structure is
>something that a lot of people become uncomfortable with, because it
>basically
>threatens their assumed value systems.
>
True in all societies. Ours, horribly enough, is the MOST tolerant of that sort
of thing, of all those which have ever existed.
>Even if you are strong willed, this doesn't douse the flames, if anything it
>makes
>the struggle to be an independent thinker more of a challenge.
If you aren't strong-willed, you are more likely to be abused. Bullies look for
EASY targets, not those likely to resist.
<Affinity>
Lone Wolf wrote:
> On Sun, 05 Sep 1999 14:49:05 +1030, "<Affinity>"
> <lu...@camtech.net.au> wrote:
>
> >Lone Wolf wrote:
> >
> >> I'd like to see Daria in any sort of relationship... straight, bi, or
> >> gay.
> >
> >Why?
>
> Why not?
>
> I watch X-Files. I'm a shipper.
> I watch Daria. I'm a shipper.
Ummm i watch both but i don't know what a shipper is, does that make me a
shipper in ignoramus?
> I have no luck with women. I am a rather horridly ugly example of a
> human being and women can't stand the sight of me. As a result, I must
> live vicariously through TV shows. Good enough? I'd be happy to send
> you the URL to my web page if you doubt my sincerity. The photos on
> there should be suitable to make uyou throw up.
There's nothing better than a good vertical hurl, post the url then.
>
>
> >> Long as it's not with Upchuck.
> >
> >Agreed.
>
> Muh huh.
<Affinity>
Greg Pallis wrote:
> >What he said *REALLY* went over your anal retentive little head.
> >
> >Dumb tuna.
>
> Mute Tuna.
> Blind Tuna.
> Actually fairly tasty tuna, tho, even if cute l'il dolphins are killed in
> catching it
Scientific tests have proven that tuna is in fact tasteless, and the 'tuna
taste' we all have come to know and love is in fact refried dolphin bits.
<Affinity>
Ughhhh people bisexuality is so 89, therefor its inclusion would not serve any
trendyfying purpose!
<Affinity>
Jordan S. Bassior wrote:
> Affinity said:
>
> >Well actually Martin who are we to know what passes between a man and a
> >Vulcan, those mind weld thingies can get pretty intense and guaranteed
> >their not thinking about their shopping lists.
>
> Perhaps not shopping lists, but why sex with one another? It's not like
> shopping and sex are the only two possible topics of conversation :)
Somebody should do a survey recording the amount of time the average american
teenager spends thinking about sex and food. I guarantee it will be most of the
time, well least from my own experience anyway. The basic principals of
homosapiens were based on our need to eat and reproduce, I don't know about
Vulcans though.
>
>
> >And while we wax on Star
> >Trek, it was the first mainstream T.V show that casted a black woman and
> >an Asian guy without making it pivotal issue or giving them subordinate
> >characters.
>
> Yes. And featured the first inter-racial kiss on TV ... even if it was courtesy
> of Evil Alien Telekinesis.
Ooooh boogy boogy... gotta love those Evil Aliens they know where its at!
>
>
> > It would be great to see the same sort of initiative taken in
> >a popular mainstream cartoon like Daria!.
>
> Yes, but it would be awful to see three seasons of careful characterization
> tossed away for a cheap thrill. Why not pick someone whom we have no reason to
> believe IS purely heterosexual to be homosexual, lesbian or bisexual? Such as:
>
> Andrea (whom has never shown any interest in any males).
Andrea has never shown any real interest in anything.
>
>
> Quinn (who as far as we know doesn't really do anything with her dates).
>
> Other FC members (who also date guys just for status, as far as we can tell).
>
> Kevin (who has sometimes shown some distinctly ... um, odd ... leanings)
Yes an episode on Kevie the Rent Boy would be most amusing, Brittany could be his
pimp.
>
>
> The Three J's (who pursue an unattainable female, and hang out together all the
> time).
>
> >In terms of perception... we always see what we want to see anyhow.
> >Perception, after all, is subjective.
>
> This sounds like the classic prelude to arguing in favor of the illogical.
If there was a fundamental truism- the fact that perception is subjective would be
it.I love paradox.
>
>
> >And why is bisexuality, according to
> >you, a strange little fantasy? It may be strange to you, but it isn't to
> >a lot of people... perception remember.
>
> It's "strange" given the established personnae of Daria and Jane.
>
> Sincerely Yours,
> Jordan
>
> "Man is a god in ruins" (Ralph Waldo Emerson)
Jordan S. Bassior
>Andrea has never shown any real interest in anything.
Well, she bet on DiMartino's fall in the roller hockey game. And she attended
the readings at "Cafe Disaffecto".
>Yes an episode on Kevie the Rent Boy would be most amusing, Brittany could be
>his pimp.
LOL
endless, nameless
>
> Greg Pallis wrote:
>
> > >What he said *REALLY* went over your anal retentive little head.
> > >
> > >Dumb tuna.
> >
> > Mute Tuna.
> > Blind Tuna.
> > Actually fairly tasty tuna, tho, even if cute l'il dolphins are killed in
> > catching it
>
> Scientific tests have proven that tuna is in fact tasteless, and the 'tuna
> taste' we all have come to know and love is in fact refried dolphin bits.
why are people so against eating dolphins anyway?
most people don't seem to mind eating pigs, who aren't
much less intelligent.
--
·•alli•· { mailto:yan...@vossnet.co.uk }
{ http://voices.vossnet.co.uk/y/yannaco }
~*cool - groovey - morning - fine*~
Daria Code v1.1
Ap D T6 Wl Q+ FN^Fr
O++ Ow+OH+Of m c
MV-- C5--
F:108 BB FCD -DT- q fN
Dagny Scott
>>> never has been (and probably never will be), namely why society in
>>> general thinks it's cool to ostracise people for being intelligent and
>>> independently minded.
>>
>>Actually Littleton, CO has made this a VERY HOT TOPIC.
>>
>
>carpet.
True. While a good result would be to look into why society (and especially
High School, a cruel little microcosm of society) ostracizes anyone who is
intelligent or in any way different. It's an important issue.
INSTEAD there became a paranoid backlash AGAINST anyone intelligent or in any
way different, assuming they're all about to become murderers, and pushing
their progress a GREAT GIANT LEAP BACKWARD
Of course their was some backlash against the anti-outcast idea in the media,
showing (once again) the media's tendency to attack itself, as it did over Ken
Starr. So they abandoned this idea and, basically, swept it under the carpet,
and instead decided the only lesson of Littleton was a need for stricter gun
control. Which is another problem and issue entirely.
Dagny
http://members.aol.com/Eccles9697
"I'm not different for the sake of being different, only for the desperate sake
of being myself. I can't join your gang: you'd think I was a phony and I'd know
it." Vivian Stanshall
Lone Wolf
wrote:
>Lone Wolf said:
>
>>Say.,.. THAT'S what they need at Lawndale... a D & D club.
>
>I think there is one and Upchuck's in it ... or at least such was hinted at one
>episode, I think "This Was Then". I wonder who else might be into that kind of
>thing ... oddly enough, I could easily see Andrea liking role-playing games.
How about... the Fashion Club is somehow forced to participate in a D
& D club... they're revulsed at first, of course, but maybe one or
more of them get REALLY into it... and end up screaming for blood and
falling into Upchuck's clutches.
Or not.
Lone Wolf
<lu...@camtech.net.au> wrote:
>Ummm i watch both but i don't know what a shipper is, does that make me a
>shipper in ignoramus?
Shipper = Relationshipper = you desire to see main characters in a TV
show start a dating/sexual/etc. relationship.
>There's nothing better than a good vertical hurl, post the url then.
I shall email it. I'd rather not have some innocent child stumble
across the URL and unknowningly click on it, only to end up in an
emergency room with terminal blindness and vomiting.
Lone Wolf
<joe...@bellatlantic.net> wrote:
>Paperpusher wrote:
>>I just had a rush of sounds from the past, and now I can put an
>>entirely new spin on them. And I will refrain from making any
>>salacious comments on Scooby and Shaggy. ;-)
>
>or Dr Quest and Race Bannon. (they were the cartoon world's first gay
>couple, you know)
Friend of mine used to have a screen name called "Johnny Quest's Two
Gay Dads"
Bear
power...@SPAMEATSMYASSerols.com (Lone Wolf) wrote:
> On 06 Sep 1999 03:56:58 GMT, jsba...@aol.com (Jordan S. Bassior)
> wrote:
>
> >Lone Wolf said:
> >>Say.,.. THAT'S what they need at Lawndale... a D & D club.
> >
> >I think there is one and Upchuck's in it ... or at least such was
> >hinted at one episode, I think "This Was Then". I wonder who else
> >might be into that kind of thing ... oddly enough, I could easily see
> >Andrea liking role-playing games.
Like "Vampire: The Masquerade"?
> How about... the Fashion Club is somehow forced to participate in a D
> & D club... they're revulsed at first, of course, but maybe one or
> more of them get REALLY into it... and end up screaming for blood and
> falling into Upchuck's clutches.
Sounds like "Vampire: The Masquerade" again... Cold, ruthless, heartless
monsters engaged in eternal games of social one-up-manship, subtly vying
for dominance over their peers, and while they wouldn't show it, they'd
be secretly delighted when one of their rivals takes a (well engineered)
fall. Which actually doesn't leave the Fashion Club with much time to
play D&D, or V:tM...
> Or not.
> -----
> Lone Wolf
If there's one thing playing D&D taught me... it's how to write
ampersands.
--
Bear, Keeper of the Household
"I've got the Dungeon Master's Guide,
I've got a twelve-sided die..."
"In the Garage", Weezer
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Share what you know. Learn what you don't.
paperpusher
>why are people so against eating dolphins anyway?
>most people don't seem to mind eating pigs, who aren't
>much less intelligent.
It's simple-- Dolphins are cute. Pigs aren't.
rich.
endless, nameless
>
> "endless, nameless" <remove....@vossnet.co.uk> wrote:
>
> >why are people so against eating dolphins anyway?
> >most people don't seem to mind eating pigs, who aren't
> >much less intelligent.
>
> It's simple-- Dolphins are cute. Pigs aren't.
i hate dolphins. they aren't remotely cute. and i bet the only
reason they aren't covered in shit like pigs are, is because
they live in the sea and the water washes it off. :)
Howling Lunatic
<remove....@vossnet.co.uk> wrote:
>paperpusher wrote:
>>
>> "endless, nameless" <remove....@vossnet.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>> >why are people so against eating dolphins anyway?
>> >most people don't seem to mind eating pigs, who aren't
>> >much less intelligent.
>>
>> It's simple-- Dolphins are cute. Pigs aren't.
>
>i hate dolphins. they aren't remotely cute. and i bet the only
>reason they aren't covered in shit like pigs are, is because
>they live in the sea and the water washes it off. :)
>
This is write up there with "She cried when I hit her. All my friends
do. Wusses."
I'm gonna make these two one of my sig files.
Kyle
He complained when I hit him. All my friends do. Wusses.
Howling Lunatic
wrote:
>>>> ISTM they've concentrated more on what ought to be a hot topic but
>>>> never has been (and probably never will be), namely why society in
>>>> general thinks it's cool to ostracise people for being intelligent and
>>>> independently minded.
>>>
>>>Actually Littleton, CO has made this a VERY HOT TOPIC.
>>>
>>
>>As far as I can tell, the media is busily trying to brush it under the
>>carpet.
>
>True. While a good result would be to look into why society (and especially
>High School, a cruel little microcosm of society) ostracizes anyone who is
>intelligent or in any way different. It's an important issue.
>
I think high school values things other than intelligence, so the
natural arrogance inherent in being good at anything is found to be
ecspecially grating, because as far as they can tell, there's no
reason for it.
endless, nameless
>
> On Mon, 06 Sep 1999 17:37:34 +0100, "endless, nameless"
> <remove....@vossnet.co.uk> wrote:
>
> >paperpusher wrote:
> >>
> >> "endless, nameless" <remove....@vossnet.co.uk> wrote:
> >>
> >> >why are people so against eating dolphins anyway?
> >> >most people don't seem to mind eating pigs, who aren't
> >> >much less intelligent.
> >>
> >> It's simple-- Dolphins are cute. Pigs aren't.
> >
> >reason they aren't covered in shit like pigs are, is because
> >
>
> do. Wusses."
>
lol. i'm flattered.
no, really.
:)
>
> Kyle
>
> He complained when I hit him. All my friends do. Wusses.
>
> i hate dolphins. they aren't remotely cute. and i bet the only
> reason they aren't covered in shit like pigs are, is because
> they live in the sea and the water washes it off.
Hallucinating Elvis Lady
> > It is so sickening that when shows and movies actually do deal with
> > people who are different, the "happy ending" almost invariably has them
> > abandon their interesting and original identities in favour of become
> > good little conformists.
>
> It pisses me off too.
Actually, rather interestingly enough one horrid review of the movie "She's All That" stated that "the lead female
character, who is not unlike the heroine on the TV show 'Daria', starts out the movie by being concerned about
intelligence and individuality. Unfortunately this is deemed a 'sin' by the movie's writers, who create a male
character that 'cures' her of her ailment." (yay me, I actually memorized this part)
One of those "things that make you go hmmm".
Diane (apologizing for being absent on this ng)
--
http://sites.netscape.net/citygirl7609/
"daria" geek code:
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Hallucinating Elvis Lady
> Damn! I must be horridly out of touch with sexuality in the 90's, since I'm not
> bisexual. Of course I'm horridly out of touch with most things in the 90's, and
> very happy about that fact, too.
I've been out of touch with "the present" since birth, practically. In the '80s I
was a little girl into the '60s, and now in the '90s I've mainly been a person into
the '80s. It hasn't bothered me a whole lot, but I do wish I could find genuine
'80s fashions and learn how to dress as such because it'd make things a whole lot
easier. Hm...paging Salvation Army...?
Diane
Michelle Klein-Hass
citygirl76...@earthlink.net wrote:
> Michelle Klein-Hass wrote:
>
> > > It is so sickening that when shows and movies actually do deal with
> > > people who are different, the "happy ending" almost invariably has them
> > > abandon their interesting and original identities in favour of become
> > > good little conformists.
> >
> > It pisses me off too.
>
> Actually, rather interestingly enough one horrid review of the movie
"She's All That" stated that "the lead female
> character, who is not unlike the heroine on the TV show 'Daria', starts
out the movie by being concerned about
> intelligence and individuality. Unfortunately this is deemed a 'sin' by
the movie's writers, who create a male
> character that 'cures' her of her ailment." (yay me, I actually
memorized this part)
Ironically, the movie "She's All That" was heavily advertised during the
Daria Daily Dose showings. Lame, lame, lame.
--.\\<-H--
--
DariaCode(tm) 1.1 (gold)
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F:111,211,308 BB++ FCD/J -DT-(in spite of my fics) q+ fN
What does this mean? Find out here... http://www.geocities.com/TelevisionCity/Taping/3017/Daria_Code.txt
Get rid of the "NOPE" and change the other caps into numbers and that's my address...sorry about the spamblock.
Greg Pallis
>No, "Downtown" is aimed more at the "Toy-Hoarding Loser" demographic.
Hey, there's at least two toy-hoarders here! Toy hoarding kicks ass :)
Except Star Wars toys and the like, which should obviously be burnt.
Shez
Stylistics writes:
>one horrid review of the movie "She's All
>That" stated that "the lead female
>character, who is not unlike the heroine on the TV show 'Daria', starts out the
>movie by being concerned about
>intelligence and individuality. Unfortunately this is deemed a 'sin' by the movie's
>writers, who create a male
>character that 'cures' her of her ailment."
That sounds like a *good* review to me. Or did you mean they were
saying horrid things about the movie? That was in fact one of the movies
that I had in mind when I wrote my post, though I couldn't recall its
name. There are plenty of others though, eg. Welcome Home Roxy
Carmichael and (possibly - at the very end anyway) Betelgeuse, both
starring Winona Ryder.
In WHRC, she starts out as a tousle haired rebel who has six locks on
the door of her (black painted) bedroom to keep the world at bay, and
ends up "cured" with ribbons in her hair etc. (Ironically she actually
looks less attractive once she's brushed her hair and put a dress on.)
The only films I can think of where the rebels don't fall in with society,
they end up committing suicide. "Heathers" for instance, starring Winona
Ryder again - she survives but her misanthropic co-star blows himself
up shortly after failing to kill her along with the highschool cheerleading
team (nice try!).
And "Surviving", an epic film starring Molly Ringwald as a girl who had
tried to commit suicide, is befriended by a boy, their parents
disapprove, the old Romeo & Juliet thing and they kill themselves.
Both good films but it would be nice to see the outcasts win for a
change. Actually I suppose in Heathers the ending is quite a good one
(except that the cheerleaders survive), as whatsisname (who was also in
The Name of the Rose) was just too evil to live anyway, he could easily
have been a role model for the Littleton duo in fact. Ryder was a bit
twee though.
Come to think of it, Name of the Rose is one where the weirdo (Sean
Connery) comes out on top whilst the rest of the world goes to hell.
Great film, but not as nihilistic as the book.
-Shez.
--
____________________________________________________________
I can't understand why a person will take a year or two to write a
novel when he can easily buy one for a few dollars. -- Fred Allen
____________________________________________________________
Take a break at the Last Stop Cafe at <URL: http://www.xerez.demon.co.uk/>
(c)Shez asserts the moral rights of authorship under the Berne Convention
Jordan S. Bassior
>There are plenty of others though, eg. Welcome Home Roxy
>Carmichael and (possibly - at the very end anyway) Betelgeuse, both
>starring Winona Ryder.
I've never seen the first. In the second, though, I would take issue with the
characerization of Lydia as becoming a conformist at the end. She finds
friends, yes, but of a decidedly unconventional variety. That is even more true
if you take the cartoon series as also canon.
>(Ironically she actually
>looks less attractive once she's brushed her hair and put a dress on.)
True. Winona's beauty works better as darkly romantic than as conventionally
"cute".
>The only films I can think of where the rebels don't fall in with society,
>they end up committing suicide
Which essentially reinforces the message: "Conform or die".
>Both good films but it would be nice to see the outcasts win for a
>change.
Exactly. While remaining true to themselves.
paperpusher
>paperpusher wrote:
>>
>> "endless, nameless" <remove....@vossnet.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>> >why are people so against eating dolphins anyway?
>> >most people don't seem to mind eating pigs, who aren't
>> >much less intelligent.
>>
>> It's simple-- Dolphins are cute. Pigs aren't.
>
>i hate dolphins. they aren't remotely cute. and i bet the only
>reason they aren't covered in shit like pigs are, is because
>they live in the sea and the water washes it off. :)
why do you think they're smiling all the time? well, that and because
they get to swim around naked all day and don't have to go to work or
school, for that matter. bastards.
rich.
Jane: You're a twisted little cruller, ain't'cha?
Bob Ohler
>why are people so against eating dolphins anyway?
>most people don't seem to mind eating pigs, who aren't
>much less intelligent.
I've heard this claim before, but I don't buy it. I've met many pigs in my
life, and none have struck me as particularly intelligent.
and PaperPusher wrote:
>why do you think they're smiling all the time? well, that and because
>they get to swim around naked all day and don't have to go to work or
>school, for that matter. bastards
a sure sign of their intelligence.
--
"Doesn't ANYONE in this town wear pants?"
~Helen, Daria! The Musical
"I've seen more people collapse this week..."
~Daria, Jake of Hearts
"I've always dreamed of the day my picture
would hang in a nuthouse."
~Daria, Once Opon a Nut
visit my no-thrills Daria fanfic site at:
http://www.fortunecity.com/lavender/wildbill/155/dmain.html
The artist formerly known as Crazy Nutso
Since no one reads down this far anyway...
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The Analander
>Ughhhh people bisexuality is so 89, therefor its inclusion would not serve
>any
>trendyfying purpose!
In my experience, personal and otherwise, "bisexuals" tend to be people
too cowardly to tell others (or to admit to themselves) that they're gay.
MIKE (a.k.a. "Progbear")
make GEORYN disappear to reply
"Siento que debemos saber para el sueño de quién brillará esta luz
o consagrar una propia estrella" --Alberto Felici
N.P.:nothing