I miss the old Cartoon Network....
AkaneKitty
As my subject says, I really do miss the old Cartoon Network. By old, I mean
when it first started up to when Toonami first started. What happened to that
network? I got caught up on some of my fav. 80's-early 90's
cartoons. It was good for a while. I also thought it was quite daring of them
to put on "Vampire Hunter D" (as gory as it is) when some people in America
think that animation is for kids.
But now, it seems that CN is almost disentigrated into nothing but Scooby Doo
JQ: TRA reruns. They have completly run that into the ground. And what happend
to all those 80's and 90's cartoons? You know, like the ones that were popular
in their hayday. They harldy show them anymore.
I wish they would get some of those old cartoons still hanging out there(thank
you Studio USA, for cutting out cartoons, and won't give up the contract). I
would to see Transformers, TMNT, GI-Joe, and some of the 90's ones that USA
had, like Savage Dragon and W.I.L.D. Cats.
*Sigh* My rants finshed. Back to Star Ocean.
Kim R.
Suffering from Star Ocean 2 addiction.
Shredder
>But now, it seems that CN is almost disentigrated into nothing but Scooby
Doo
>JQ: TRA reruns. They have completly run that into the ground. And what
happend
>to all those 80's and 90's cartoons? You know, like the ones that were
popular
>in their hayday. They harldy show them anymore.
Your right, they are showing alot more HB/WB stuff lately. I think a few of
the reasons could be, their either giving them a break, or are in the
proccess of renewing contracts.
Either way, your right. This HB /WB stuff has been in rerun for 30 years.
Some of it longer. We need more of a variety if you're reading this CN.
One can only take so much Scooby, JQ, And even some of the others that are
repeated constantly like Bugs.
My Dream network would be that ALL Of the companies would get off their
high horse, and work together to create the most diverse cartoon network of
all time. Anime at night/late nights. Classic kid stuff like Tom and Jerry
in the morning. Some more modern stuff in the afternoon, from the mid 80's,
to 90's(No HB or WB stuff in this block). And the Cartoon Theater in a
prime time slot.
but that'll never happen :)
V. Star
> My Dream network would be that ALL Of the companies would get off their
> high horse, and work together to create the most diverse cartoon network
of
> all time. Anime at night/late nights. Classic kid stuff like Tom and
Jerry
With respect to both you and AkaneKitty, I like the present-day Cartoon
Network just the way it is. The solution of adult-oriented anime at late
night and kiddie stuff in the morn will just not do for everyone. I myself
like the idea of tuning into CN practically anytime of the day OR night and
finding G-rated material. Sometimes I have family that comes in to visit,
and they have traveled far from, you name it, any corner of the United
States. It's so nice to let the children watch Johnny Bravo or Cow and
Chicken while I help their parents get settled in...not to mention that I
myself don't mind a late-nite dose of original cartoon-cartoon product even
when company isn't around.
This does not mean CN couldn't stand to undergo some improvement. It would
be nice if the network were not so inclusive and try to gain the rights for
material not created by HB/WB. I'd love to see a lot of the old Filmation
(sp.?) stuff like Fat Albert, the Archies, that Lassie cartoon show with
all the zoo animals, and how about those live-action Captain Marvel and
Isis films? Scooby Doo is pretty fun stuff, but there's no excuse for
giving us TOO much of a good thing. Surely CN's executives are aware that
most of its viewers are dissatisfied with the constant recycling and
extension of that recycling of the same cartoons. Surely there are some
ways CN can acquire different material at a cost that is affordable to the
network.
But back to your suggestion of late-nite anime. You should petition for
another network. Maybe CN could develop a secondary network...though I
think associating with adult-oriented cartoons featuring strong sexual
themes would be a bad thing for Cartoon Network's strong family-centered
image. What if HEAVY METAL developed a cable network devoted to anime and
cutting-edge animation?
Gerard Motola
--
Yakko: "(knock knock knock)" Voice: "Who is it?" Yakko: "Good evening.
I'm... in love! (eye bulge) (faint)"
A! JW23 YK+++ir^'# WK+++ir'# DT+++ir!'# PI+++i BR+++ir^' SL+++ir^' SRG++
RI++!: RU++ GDF++ B&M- HIP- SN++ HN++++!: KBF- MM+++++!"':#/++^ WB++i
P+ I+ Dswd $+++d E1ab E2 E3 E4a E13ac E19a E25a E26 E29 E30
E32a E34 E35 E49 E50 E51 E53ac E54 E56a E58a E59b
E61a E65 E70 E73ac E77 E82 E84 E92 E94b EH14 H24 PonNil M
Edymnion
science fiction channel, that will be VERY anime friendly. Reports say that
the guys who own MTV really don't like the guys over at Sci-Fi channel. To cut
into the Sci-Fi channel profit, they are going to make their channel show
unedited movies, and unedited anime.
All the stuff people were complaining the Sci-Fi didn't have, they will. So,
there is at least ONE network out there that listens.
V. Star wrote:
> But back to your suggestion of late-nite anime. You should petition for
> another network. Maybe CN could develop a secondary network...though I
> think associating with adult-oriented cartoons featuring strong sexual
> themes would be a bad thing for Cartoon Network's strong family-centered
> image. What if HEAVY METAL developed a cable network devoted to anime and
> cutting-edge animation?
--
Sanity is not statistical...
Shredder
>like the idea of tuning into CN practically anytime of the day OR night and
>finding G-rated material.
I completly agree with this statement. Sometimes in todays society, it's
kind of sad when the Now muppet oriented channel, is shared with a, rather
degenerate type channel during the night.
With cartoon network, it's all safe. But, what the original point of the
note was, to get more of a variety in their showings. Not just the same
repeated HB/WB stuff over and over again. More Gumby, Less Scooby. Uhm,
More He-Man, Less Johnny Quest.
Not necesarilly(sp) adult oriented stuff, just more of a variety of
program. Maby th at better explained it?
Shredder
are the non dubbed TMNT Anime aired only in Japan. And the two
"Americanized" Anime like Real Ghostbusters and Thundercats.
Would this network show series like this, or only full length feature films
like DBZ movies?
Shredder
>note was, to get more of a variety in their showings. Not just the same
>repeated HB/WB stuff over and over again. More Gumby, Less Scooby. Uhm,
>More He-Man, Less Johnny Quest.
And in an addition to my following note, since CN now owns most of these
shows, they should get the original people back, and make NEW Episodes.
Same Style as the original, since most people don't care for updated
material. Example, The Horrid and short Lived New Adventures of He-Man.
How about new Bugs Bunny episodes on What a Cartoon Show? Surley the Space
Jam actors will never replace Mel Blanks, but their decent enough :). How
about a new Thundercats show?(Shamelss plug, my page :)
http://Ghostbusters.Interspeed.Net/cats/main.html). There are a wide
variety of things CN can do, to give us less repeats.
What the network SHOULD do, is curculate a poll around to all their
subscribers. Get to know what they like, don't like, and what they want to
see. New versions of old shows would be a good choice to have, no?
james evans
AkaneKitty <akane...@aol.comKitty> wrote in message
news:19990701144514...@ng-cm1.aol.com...
> Hi. Been lurking for a while.
>
> As my subject says, I really do miss the old Cartoon Network. By old, I
mean
> when it first started up to when Toonami first started. What happened to
that
> network? I got caught up on some of my fav. 80's-early 90's
> cartoons. It was good for a while. I also thought it was quite daring of
them
> to put on "Vampire Hunter D" (as gory as it is) when some people in
America
> think that animation is for kids.
>
___ I agree. Where are those old shows. They seemed to have killed them
overnight.
> But now, it seems that CN is almost disentigrated into nothing but Scooby
Doo
> JQ: TRA reruns. They have completly run that into the ground. And what
happend
> to all those 80's and 90's cartoons? You know, like the ones that were
popular
> in their hayday. They harldy show them anymore.
------ Well I like Johnny Quest but I don't watch CN as much as I did when
it first premiered due to the almost Scooby atmosphere it provides. I seems
regardless of when I turn to it they are showing that damned dog and I can't
stand him.
>
> I wish they would get some of those old cartoons still hanging out
there(thank
> you Studio USA, for cutting out cartoons, and won't give up the contract).
I
> would to see Transformers, TMNT, GI-Joe, and some of the 90's ones that
USA
> had, like Savage Dragon and W.I.L.D. Cats.
------ I agree. I loved USA's cartoon express as it took me back to the
times when cartoons were'nt just cartoons, they were extended commercials
for toy lines that had interesting storylines unlike the ones we're provided
with now. I would love to see some of their shows return like Savage Dragon,
Wing Commander Academy, Gargoyles etc. The marketers are just crazy is what
I believe.
>
> *Sigh* My rants finshed. Back to Star Ocean.
>
> Kim R.
> Suffering from Star Ocean 2 addiction.
---- Me too, I think we should find a support group somewhere. :)
Gerard Motola
AkaneKitty
>science fiction channel, that will be VERY anime friendly. Reports say that
>the guys who own MTV really don't like the guys over at Sci-Fi channel. To
>cut
>into the Sci-Fi channel profit, they are going to make their channel show
>unedited movies, and unedited anime.
>All the stuff people were complaining the Sci-Fi didn't have, they will. So,
>there is at least ONE network out there that listens.
Cool. One of my main gripes with Sci-Fi is that when they do show anime, the
edit the heck out of it(sometimes). And this is from the same company that
shows WWF Raw(although it's on a different channel). And if you watch the news,
or watch it like I do, you now how THAT gets.
AkaneKitty
what fans it had. Even though it (was?) under Turner's stations, which has that
family air about them, they showed one of the goriest anime there is. That's
what hooked me in the first place.
Now I hardly watch. I'm not into the cartoons that look like anyone can
draw.(Exception to Dexter)
> Maybe CN could develop a secondary network...though I
>think associating with adult-oriented cartoons featuring strong sexual
>themes would be a bad thing for Cartoon Network's strong family-centered
>image.
Cartoons are only for family? Not to flame you here, but that's why anime, and
"American adult animation" gets such a bad rap.
MacDobe
On Thu, 01 Jul 1999 20:51:39 -0400, Edymnion <ice...@cdc.net> wrote:
>Well, our prayers will be answered soon. MTV is buisy making a branch off
>science fiction channel, that will be VERY anime friendly. Reports say that
>the guys who own MTV really don't like the guys over at Sci-Fi channel. To cut
>into the Sci-Fi channel profit, they are going to make their channel show
>unedited movies, and unedited anime.
>All the stuff people were complaining the Sci-Fi didn't have, they will. So,
>there is at least ONE network out there that listens.
>
>V. Star wrote:
>
>> But back to your suggestion of late-nite anime. You should petition for
>> another network. Maybe CN could develop a secondary network...though I
>> think associating with adult-oriented cartoons featuring strong sexual
>> themes would be a bad thing for Cartoon Network's strong family-centered
vxpmrz3
"Shredder" <TheShr...@prodigy.net> wrote:
> >With cartoon network, it's all safe. But, what the original point
> >of the note was, to get more of a variety in their showings. Not
> >just the same repeated HB/WB stuff over and over again. More Gumby,
> >Less Scooby. Uhm, More He-Man, Less Johnny Quest.
> And in an addition to my following note, since CN now owns most of
>these shows, they should get the original people back, and make NEW
>Episodes.
Can they? Are the original people available and willing to work?
> Same Style as the original, since most people don't care for updated
> material. Example, The Horrid and short Lived New Adventures of He-
> Man.
Was it really all that updated? It's not like it was a completely
revamped show. Really quite similar to the original as I recall.
> How about new Bugs Bunny episodes on What a Cartoon Show? Surley
>the Space Jam actors will never replace Mel Blanks, but their decent
>enough :). How about a new Thundercats show?(Shamelss plug, my page :)
> http://Ghostbusters.Interspeed.Net/cats/main.html). There are a wide
> variety of things CN can do, to give us less repeats.
Yep, but some of those things cost, perhaps more than they're worth
to CN. That's the question they have to ask themselves...and for us,
we don't know what the answers are..
> What the network SHOULD do, is curculate a poll around to all their
> subscribers. Get to know what they like, don't like, and what they
>want to see. New versions of old shows would be a good choice to
>have, no?
Polls are expensive though, if you want to get them right anyway.
--
Ash: Klaatu borada n... Necktie... Nickel... It's
an "N" word, it's definitely an "N" word!
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Share what you know. Learn what you don't.
Lissa Jean
AkaneKitty <akane...@aol.comKitty> wrote in message
>
> > Maybe CN could develop a secondary network...though I
> >think associating with adult-oriented cartoons featuring strong sexual
> >themes would be a bad thing for Cartoon Network's strong family-centered
> >image.
>
and
> "American adult animation" gets such a bad rap.
I think all V. Star meant was that that's the image they're trying to
create. But I agree with them, it's nice to be able to leave behind the sex,
drugs, gore, and adrenaline rush of most things shown in prime-time and
late-night. There are as many of us that just don't like that kind of thing,
as there are people who do. So I think two separate channels is one possible
solution. (No matter how unlikely)
Lissa
(trying to be as diplomatic as possible,...)
(...as long as ReBoot gets shown on both! *G*)
stars...@my-deja.com
to university to earn my Ph.D., full-time and out-
of-state, which meant I now found myself living
with and socializing with people more than a
decade younger than I am. University living gave
us something of a common bond, but it was animation
which really united us: anime and the cartoons and
shows re-run over the years on CartoonNetwork,
Nickelodeon, and USA. Thanks to those, most of my
younger friends grew up watching many of the same
cartoons and old sitcoms with which I had grown up!
The newer line-up, with shows such as the recent
racist/sexist faux adventures of Jonny Quest, only
unites us in our shared loathing for the evidence
of a declining television animation industry.
(Shows such as "Jonny Bravo" and "SouthPark" when
it's not being overly self-indulgent excepted, of
course!)
star-silver
--------------------------------------------------
"Literary experience heals the wound, without
undermining the privilege, of individuality."
- C. S. Lewis
"I am a little afraid to go home. I have been
mortal, and some part of me is mortal yet"
- *The*Last*Unicorn* by Peter S. Beagle
AkaneKitty
>times when cartoons were'nt just cartoons, they were extended commercials
>for toy lines that had interesting storylines unlike the ones we're provided
>with now. I would love to see some of their shows return like Savage Dragon,
>Wing Commander Academy, Gargoyles etc. The marketers are just crazy is what
>I believe.
Heh. I forgot about Wing Commander. They had the endless war. :)
From USA's now gone cartoon line up, I would also like to see Street Fighter
again. Though I prefer the anime version of Street Fighter(movie and series),
the american version was OK.
>>
>> *Sigh* My rants finshed. Back to Star Ocean.
>>
>> Kim R.
>> Suffering from Star Ocean 2 addiction.
>
>---- Me too, I think we should find a support group somewhere. :)
>
>
>
You too? I thought I was the only one. :)
Maybe I do need a support group...
Kim R.
Still suffering from Star Ocean 2 addiction.
AkaneKitty
>racist/sexist faux adventures of Jonny Quest,
Could you point some of those out? I can only remeber a few points about Jonny.
Now the Power Puff Girls, on the other hand...
"Made from suger, spice and everything nice?" Gag me...It really doesn't offend
me,but they're trying to pull in girls, I can think of a lot more topics than
_that_.
> only
>unites us in our shared loathing for the evidence
>of a declining television animation industry.
I agree. I miss the cartoons/animations that look like they had some effort put
into it's drawing. Some of the newer stuff looks like anyone can draw. Spawn
looks better than that! Maybe I'm just spoiled on anime.
vxpmrz3
You seem to be confused. Starsilver didn't say anything against Johnny
Bravo, but instead excepted it from the general pack.
--
Ash: Klaatu borada n... Necktie... Nickel... It's
an "N" word, it's definitely an "N" word!
vxpmrz3
> > I wish they would get some of those old cartoons still hanging out
> >there(thank you Studio USA, for cutting out cartoons, and won't give
> >up the contract).
> >I would to see Transformers, TMNT, GI-Joe, and some of the 90's ones
> >that USA had, like Savage Dragon and W.I.L.D. Cats.
> ------ I agree. I loved USA's cartoon express as it took me back to
>the times when cartoons were'nt just cartoons, they were extended
>commercials for toy lines that had interesting storylines unlike the
>ones we're provided with now.
Absolutely. Bring back He-Man, She-Ra, Go-bots, Inhumanoids, MASK
even Spiral Zone. (Were all these on USA? I know Go-bots was,
but am not sure of the others.)
>I would love to see some of their shows return like Savage Dragon,
> Wing Commander Academy, Gargoyles etc. The marketers are just crazy
>is what I believe.
Well, the Action Zone or whatever it was called died a sad death, but
at least the Gargoyles still live on!!! Yep, on Toon Disney, which
in my area at least will be on DISNEY TONIGHT!!! OH YEAH! I get a
WHOLE HOUR OF GARGOYLES! YES! YES! As you can guess, I'm quite happy
at even this slim sampling.
> > *Sigh* My rants finshed. Back to Star Ocean.
> ---- Me too, I think we should find a support group somewhere. :)
Let's have a class-action lawsuit instead and force them to air the
shows for us.
vxpmrz3
akane...@aol.comKitty (AkaneKitty) wrote:
> Now the Power Puff Girls, on the other hand...
> "Made from suger, spice and everything nice?" Gag me...It really
>doesn't offend me,but they're trying to pull in girls, I can think of
>a lot more topics than _that_.
It's a parody of sorts as well, recognizing that makes the taste
slightly different.
> > only
> >unites us in our shared loathing for the evidence
> >of a declining television animation industry.
> I agree. I miss the cartoons/animations that look like they had some
>effort put into it's drawing. Some of the newer stuff looks like
>anyone can draw.
Anyone can. Getting someone to pay you for it is another matter.
Still, I think it's not like of effort, but a different style that's
becoming more popular, perhaps due to the influence of CGI.. Sorta
like photographs did to painting I suppose. But that might just
be overanalyzing things and it could be all about money.
> Spawn looks better than that! Maybe I'm just spoiled on anime.
Could be.
V. Star
> So you think CN should be ONLY for kids?
> --
Cartoons are only for KIDS ??! ;-)
V. Star
<19990701211431...@ng-fz1.aol.com>...
> Cartoons are only for family? Not to flame you here, but that's why
anime, and
> "American adult animation" gets such a bad rap.
>
As Lissa Jean went on to state, I was only mentioning the benefit of a
network that airs practically 24-hours-a-day entertainment that virtually
nobody can find offensive. I am sure nobody here in this newsgroup would
hold anything against such an ideal.
Of course, it would be nice if CN would provide a bit more variety and a
bit less Scooby Doo (I know "a bit less" here is an understatement!); but
I'm happy that the network is devoted to providing new cartoons that are
quite consistent in quality. CN's CARTOON CARTOONS appeal to both adult and
child alike. As long as the network keeps the divergent natures of its dual
audience in mind, CN should be around for a long time to come.
hardinger j. flapdoodle
the last episode made was probably the worst possible place to cut off a
series? "hey, let's make the last episode ever a cliffhanger, so we can
increase the anticipation for the next seas- oh...." that alone (well, add
in the la femme nikita series, as i loved the original film) is reason for
me to despise universal, studio usa, whatever the hell it's called now....
--
hardinger j. flapdoodle
sage of cartoon/anime lore, (pending) sexiest member of alt.nerd.obsessive
AkaneKitty <akane...@aol.comKitty> wrote in message
news:19990702102822...@ng-fj1.aol.com...
> >------ I agree. I loved USA's cartoon express as it took me back to the
> >times when cartoons were'nt just cartoons, they were extended commercials
> >for toy lines that had interesting storylines unlike the ones we're
provided
> >with now. I would love to see some of their shows return like Savage
Dragon,
> >Wing Commander Academy, Gargoyles etc. The marketers are just crazy is
what
> >I believe.
>
hardinger j. flapdoodle
> Cartoons are only for family? Not to flame you here, but that's why anime,
and
> "American adult animation" gets such a bad rap.
that's precisely what i've been ranting about for years....
hardinger j. flapdoodle
AkaneKitty <akane...@aol.comKitty> wrote in message
> Now the Power Puff Girls, on the other hand...
> "Made from suger, spice and everything nice?" Gag me...It really doesn't
offend
> me,but they're trying to pull in girls, I can think of a lot more topics
than
> _that_.
now, repeat after me, this writer's mantra:
"clichés can be your friend"
i think it's clever how they twisted around the old concept by having the
professor spill element x into the mix, thus creating three superpowered
little girls....
SaraJ the computer genius
>kind of sad when the Now muppet oriented channel, is shared with a, rather
>degenerate type channel during the night.
>
If you're talking about the Oddessy/Playboy channel (which, BTW, is also a
country-music channel), that is interesting-they show TVG programs during the
day, then they switch to country music videos for several hours, then at 9,
they throw aside those 2 aliases, then show their blue-I mean, true colors from
there.
At least I think so-I could be wrong.
SaraJ
I don't suffer from insanity.I like every minute of it.
SNAFU=Situation Normal:All Fucked Up
"Umm-is that a God dam?
"-Beavis, "Beavis&Butt-Head Do America"
"We'll live like kings! Damn hell ass kings!"
-Bart Simpson
vxpmrz3
sara...@aol.com.hell (SaraJ the computer genius) wrote:
> >Sometimes in todays society, it's
> >kind of sad when the Now muppet oriented channel, is shared with a,
> >rather degenerate type channel during the night.
> If you're talking about the Oddessy/Playboy channel (which, BTW, is
>also a country-music channel), that is interesting-they show TVG
>programs during the day, then they switch to country music videos for
>several hours, then at 9, they throw aside those 2 aliases, then show
>their blue-I mean, true colors from there.
> At least I think so-I could be wrong.
Hmm, unless the titles in my TV Weekly are misleading, that's not what
is aired on the Odyssey channel in my area(on a different cable system
so I can't check..). Oh, the muppets are on in the day, but there
don't seem to be any country music videos, let alone Playboy stuff.
vxpmrz3
"hardinger j. flapdoodle" <stu...@frontiernet.net> wrote:
> exosquad, dammit! we need a season three! who else out there
>agrees that the last episode made was probably the worst possible
>place to cut off a series? "hey, let's make the last episode ever a
>cliffhanger, so we can increase the anticipation for the next seas-
>oh...."
Oh, I don't have a problem with that at all. I have a problem with
them not FILLING the need for me!!!! AARGGH! That, and the
missing arc of episodes..
Koby Chodosh
>This does not mean CN couldn't stand to undergo some improvement. It would
>be nice if the network were not so inclusive and try to gain the rights for
>material not created by HB/WB. I'd love to see a lot of the old Filmation
>(sp.?) stuff like Fat Albert, the Archies, that Lassie cartoon show with
>all the zoo animals, and how about those live-action Captain Marvel and
>Isis films? Scooby Doo is pretty fun stuff, but there's no excuse for
>giving us TOO much of a good thing. Surely CN's executives are aware that
>most of its viewers are dissatisfied with the constant recycling and
>extension of that recycling of the same cartoons. Surely there are some
>ways CN can acquire different material at a cost that is affordable to the
>network.
Filmation = bad cartoons. It may = nostalgia for some, but an
objective judgement will always show that Filmation = bad cartoons.
It's on CN enough, thank you very much.
-PD
Koby Chodosh
>Well, our prayers will be answered soon. MTV is buisy making a branch off
>science fiction channel, that will be VERY anime friendly. Reports say that
>the guys who own MTV really don't like the guys over at Sci-Fi channel. To cut
>into the Sci-Fi channel profit, they are going to make their channel show
>unedited movies, and unedited anime.
>All the stuff people were complaining the Sci-Fi didn't have, they will. So,
>there is at least ONE network out there that listens.
Oh, boy. The MTV programming geniuses branch out into another network.
-PD
(still waiting for Cablevision [Long Island] to pick up M2...)
Koby Chodosh
>> How about new Bugs Bunny episodes on What a Cartoon Show? Surley
>>the Space Jam actors will never replace Mel Blanks, but their decent
>>enough :).
AAAAHHHH! That first sentence sent a chill down my spine.
As did the second one...
-PD
Gerard Motola
--
Yakko: "(knock knock knock)" Minerva: "Who is it?" Yakko: "Good evening.
Gerard Motola
> I agree. I loved USA's cartoon express as it took me back to the
> times when cartoons were'nt just cartoons, they were extended commercials
That's a good thing???
Nwonknu
>it longer. We need more of a variety if you're reading
>this CN. One can only take so much Scooby, JQ, And even
>some of the others that are repeated constantly like Bugs.
Would someone please bring back Devlin!!
How about The Roman Holidays!
Anyone? Please?! *__^
ducking, running
**** Posted from RemarQ - http://www.remarq.com - Discussions Start Here (tm) ****
alleyne
with Scooby. Not just out there, Over here! CN UK, They pull Scooby
Weekenders (Which are bloody annoying and Wipe out what could have been a
Weekend's Quality viewing).Scooby was a good series, but Its time has passed
and The Network cannot seem to recognise it. The need to focus on The Hipper
programming of Today, The 90s
(What's left of them) and not so much as get rid of the Classic Toons like
Scooby, Just Jam 'em into where hardly anyone's watching. Problem solved!
Marvin Alleyne
vxpmrz3
Excuse me, but please try to get your quote attributions right. I
did not say that, and I don't like it being suggested that I did.
vxpmrz3
ko...@softhome.net.net.net (Koby Chodosh) wrote:
> Filmation = bad cartoons. It may = nostalgia for some, but an
> objective judgement will always show that Filmation = bad cartoons.
> It's on CN enough, thank you very much.
Bad cartoons != non-entertaining cartoons.
stars...@my-deja.com
> >The newer line-up, with shows such as the recent
> >racist/sexist faux adventures of Jonny Quest,
>
> Could you point some of those out? I can only remeber a few points
> about Jonny.
The original Jonny Quest aired in the 1960s, and
while it was less sexist than normal for its time,
1960s progressive often appears backwards to a
1990s audience with little or no sense of historical
context. The new faux adventures allegedly redress
this, but they do so rather badly.
In the original, Jezebel Jade was the classic mode
of adventurous heroine: tough as nails, willing to
use her good looks if it gave her an edge in a male-
dominated milieu, resourceful and clever, all-in-all
the superior woman who was looking for a superior
man (in this case, Race Bannon).
In the original, Dr. Benton Quest was both dedicated
scientist and dedicated father, what would be called
a sensitive male today. He was indifferent to a
person's gender, respected women, and was fully in
touch with his anima as well as his animus, enabling
him to be a good single parent for Jonny.
In the insulting new version, Jezebel Jade alternates
between a mommy figure and a militant butch. She no
longer uses her good looks against men chauvenist
enough to fall for it, for that would be complicity
with the 'Patriarchy', she is no longer secure enough
in her independence to risk being attracted to any
man, and she is suddenly subject to bouts of
uncontrolled nurturing as though mommyness were
hardwired into her genes. This new version fulfills
the modern anti-sexist sexist stereotype of a woman
essentialized as nurturing and always under seige
by all heterosexual males within her vicinity, a
more sexist caricature of a female human being than
the 1960s version had ever been.
In the insulting new version, Dr. Benton Quest has
lost his sensitivity. He still treats women and
men as equals, but this is due to an unfeeling and
cold intellectuality. He has lost all touch with
his anima and no longer dares intrude upon a
"woman's natural territory of parenting", having
become an alienated father. This new version
fulfills the modern counter-patriarchal misandric
stereotype of a man essentialized as incapable of
nurturing nor sensitivity and always overinvolved
with his work, a more chauvenist caricature of a
male human being than the 1960s version had ever
been.
As for the racism: the classic Haji spoke with
only a trace of an accent, knew mysterious tricks
which only occasionally entered into the stories,
and felt quite comfortable with straddling the
various cultural differences between India and
the United States. This new degraded version of
Haji speaks with a stereotypically halting accent,
uses mysterious tricks as a compensatory super-
power rather frequently, and feels out of place
with the society of the United States. He has
gone from just-another-kid but with an exotic
background in the 1960s to a superpowered cultural
alien since trust in a respectful cultural
assimilation is now sociopolitically unpalatable.
I could go on, of course, but I don't think the
new version is worth any more bandwidth.
star-silver
--------------------------------------------------
"Literary experience heals the wound, without
undermining the privilege, of individuality."
- C. S. Lewis
"I am a little afraid to go home. I have been
mortal, and some part of me is mortal yet"
- *The*Last*Unicorn* by Peter S. Beagle
V. Star
article <377e3924...@newshost.li.net>...
>
> Filmation = bad cartoons. It may = nostalgia for some,
> but an objective judgement will always show that
> Filmation = bad cartoons.
Fat Albert and the Cosby Kids = bad cartoons ??! ;-)
And how about those wonderful Tarzan cartoons and that Batman cartoon
series from the mid-70s that starred the adorable little Batmite?
BATMITE !!! Yippee!!! :-))
> It's on CN enough, thank you very much.
Uh-huh?! WHEN?
--Beauty be in the eye of the beholder, it be.
vxpmrz3
Nwonknu <anon...@web.remarq.com> wrote:
> Would someone please bring back Devlin!!
2:30 AM, in the wee hours of Saturday.
--
Ash: Klaatu borada n... Necktie... Nickel... It's
an "N" word, it's definitely an "N" word!
vxpmrz3
Gerard Motola <g...@gtm.cx> wrote:
> james evans wrote:
> > I agree. I loved USA's cartoon express as it took me back to the
> > times when cartoons were'nt just cartoons, they were extended
> >commercials for toy lines.
> That's a good thing???
Absolutely.
vxpmrz3
"V. Star" <vs...@bigfoot.com> wrote:
> Koby Chodosh argues in
> > It's on CN enough, thank you very much.
> Uh-huh?! WHEN?
I don't believe Koby Chodosh was referring to any specific show,
just a type in general so it really doesn't matter.
vxpmrz3
stars...@my-deja.com wrote:
> I could go on, of course, but I don't think the
> new version is worth any more bandwidth.
You spent too much time of it already. The only thing
worth watching is the intro, and that's more for the
music than anything else. ;P
BDMNQR2
>> Koby Chodosh argues in
>
>> > It's on CN enough, thank you very much.
>
>> Uh-huh?! WHEN?
>
>I don't believe Koby Chodosh was referring to any specific show,
>just a type in general so it really doesn't matter.
>
Batman-Superman Adventures, plus, they have the Droopy episodes from 1980.
Doesn't seem any worse than any other cartoons from the same period.
The Archies are already on Odyssey (Time Warner just threw it off in NY 3
months before they revamped it, I believe at the prompting of the mayor who
wanted another sports channel.) The rest of that stuff will probaby also appear
on Odyssey, or mayne TV Land, eventually)
Eric B
Peter Destructo (not Koby Chodosh)
>As Lissa Jean went on to state, I was only mentioning the benefit of a
>network that airs practically 24-hours-a-day entertainment that virtually
>nobody can find offensive. I am sure nobody here in this newsgroup would
>hold anything against such an ideal.
[raises hand]
not offensive to anyone = bland = bad.
Besides, a lot of the cartoons can be found offensive to SOMEone. I'm
too lazy to dredge up silly examples.
-Peter Destructo
Peter Destructo (not Koby Chodosh)
>Bad cartoons != non-entertaining cartoons.
Umm... maybe... just for silliness's sake. But there's no point to go
out of one's way to show or watch them.
-PD
Peter Destructo (not Koby Chodosh)
>In article <01bec543$22379020$974f...@nb.net.nb.net>,
> "V. Star" <vs...@bigfoot.com> wrote:
>> Koby Chodosh argues in
>
>> > It's on CN enough, thank you very much.
>
>> Uh-huh?! WHEN?
>
>I don't believe Koby Chodosh was referring to any specific show,
>just a type in general so it really doesn't matter.
Yeah. I meant SF and Bat&SupAdv (the first Filmation version). That's
about it.
-PD
Peter Destructo (not Koby Chodosh)
wrote:
>The need to focus on The Hipper
>programming of Today, The 90s
>(What's left of them) and not so much as get rid of the Classic Toons like
>Scooby, Just Jam 'em into where hardly anyone's watching. Problem solved!
Classic != Scooby
Classic = Acme Hr., Late Night B&W, Tex Avery, Toon Heads, Tom &
Jerry, Bugs & Daffy... (god! CN has so many formats for classic
shorts! I never noticed this)
-PD
vxpmrz3
ko...@softhome.net.net.net (Peter Destructo (not Koby Chodosh)) wrote:
> On Fri, 02 Jul 1999 19:00:54 GMT, "V. Star" <vs...@bigfoot.com> wrote:
> >As Lissa Jean went on to state, I was only mentioning the benefit of
> >a network that airs practically 24-hours-a-day entertainment that
> >virtually nobody can find offensive. I am sure nobody here in this
> >newsgroup would hold anything against such an ideal.
> [raises hand]
> not offensive to anyone = bland = bad.
Well, there's a fallacy that will never die.
> Besides, a lot of the cartoons can be found offensive to SOMEone. I'm
> too lazy to dredge up silly examples.
And you don't have to, as the term "virtually nobody" was used, so
silly examples would do know more than prove the statement.
vxpmrz3
>
> >Bad cartoons != non-entertaining cartoons.
>
> Umm... maybe... just for silliness's sake.
Thank you for allowing me to have that reason to watch them. I have
others though, but if you wish to think them silly, I won't bother
to try to convince you otherwise. Nor will I bother to convince you
or anyone else that cartoon snobbery is just as silly.
>But there's no point to go out of one's way to show or watch them.
That's your opinion, and you're welcome to it, but don't force me
to share it. And it's beside the point anyway, as I don't go out
of my way for every show I watch, nor do I see some reason things
should be that way.
vxpmrz3
> wrote:
>
> >The need to focus on The Hipper
> >programming of Today, The 90s
> >(What's left of them) and not so much as get rid of the Classic
> >Toons like Scooby, Just Jam 'em into where hardly anyone's watching.
> >Problem solved!
> Classic != Scooby
Any show that's reached the icon status of Scooby, is IMO, a classic.
You may not like the fact that Scooby Merchandise is as prevalent
as say, Looney Toons, but that doesn't change the fact that it is.
> Classic = Acme Hr., Late Night B&W, Tex Avery, Toon Heads, Tom &
> Jerry, Bugs & Daffy... (god! CN has so many formats for classic
> shorts! I never noticed this)
Those would be classics, that to you, are not like Scooby. Me, I
really can't get into them so I'd be happy enough without them,
except for the worry that it would mean something I want to see
is on so...well, you get the point.
vxpmrz3
"alleyne" <all...@dircon.co.uk> wrote:
> Even though, I'm from the UK. I still think that Cartoon Network
> overdo it with Scooby. Not just out there, Over here!
Assuming what I've heard is true, I agree 100%. There's something as
too much of a moderately good thing. Don't know about hipper stuff
from the 90's, but almost anything would be a welcome relief.
Peter Destructo (not Koby Chodosh)
>> not offensive to anyone = bland = bad.
>
>Well, there's a fallacy that will never die.
Yeah, I guess you're right. That's only USUALLY true. But
offensiveness is often funny. Have you ever seen "The Producers"?
-Peter Destructo
"Director Spike Lee has vowed to 'get that guy,' referring to a
reporter for the New York Times who gave his new film some bad
publicity. In Lee parlance, 'getting' a guy means complaining a lot
and then making a Pizza Hut commercial." -Ghost Planet News,
http://www.ghostplanet.com
vxpmrz3
> >> not offensive to anyone = bland = bad.
> >Well, there's a fallacy that will never die.
> Yeah, I guess you're right. That's only USUALLY true.
What was that quote? 90% of everything is crap? Something
like that anyway.
> But offensiveness is often funny.
Yes, it can be funny, but it can also be:
Depressing.
Boring.
Disgusting.
Revolting.
Enraging.
And well, you get the idea. At least bland is less likely
to be dangerous to people's health. Or property.
> Have you ever seen "The Producers"?
Don't know, I've a poor head for titles. Don't feel you have
to tell me about it though, I'm not interested in disputing
you on offensiveness being potentially funny. Then again,
humor is an interrupted defense mechanism. Or is it that
it's about the pain of others? Maybe both.
su_s...@webtv.net
Peter Destructo (not Koby Chodosh)
>In article <37829aaa...@newshost.li.net>,
> ko...@softhome.net.net.net (Peter Destructo (not Koby Chodosh)) wrote:
>> On Sat, 03 Jul 1999 00:24:14 GMT, vxpmrz3 <vxp...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>>
>> >Bad cartoons != non-entertaining cartoons.
>>
>> Umm... maybe... just for silliness's sake.
>
>Thank you for allowing me to have that reason to watch them. I have
>others though, but if you wish to think them silly, I won't bother
>to try to convince you otherwise. Nor will I bother to convince you
>or anyone else that cartoon snobbery is just as silly.
>
>>But there's no point to go out of one's way to show or watch them.
>
>That's your opinion, and you're welcome to it, but don't force me
>to share it. And it's beside the point anyway, as I don't go out
>of my way for every show I watch, nor do I see some reason things
>should be that way.
Well, what did you EXPECT me to make of what you said?! You CALLED the
cartoons bad and called them entertaining. Seriously, I really do want
to hear you expand on the inequality a tad.
vxpmrz3
ko...@softhome.net.net.net (Peter Destructo (not Koby Chodosh)) wrote:
> On Sun, 04 Jul 1999 15:36:59 GMT, vxpmrz3 <vxp...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> >In article <37829aaa...@newshost.li.net>,
> > ko...@softhome.net.net.net (Peter Destructo (not Koby Chodosh))
wrote:
> >> On Sat, 03 Jul 1999 00:24:14 GMT, vxpmrz3 <vxp...@my-deja.com>
wrote:
> >> >Bad cartoons != non-entertaining cartoons.
> >>But there's no point to go out of one's way to show or watch them.
> >That's your opinion, and you're welcome to it, but don't force me
> >to share it. And it's beside the point anyway, as I don't go out
> >of my way for every show I watch, nor do I see some reason things
> >should be that way.
> Well, what did you EXPECT me to make of what you said?! You CALLED the
> cartoons bad and called them entertaining. Seriously, I really do want
> to hear you expand on the inequality a tad.
No, I didn't call the Cartoons bad, I just said "Bad Cartoons do not
equal non-entertaining ones" . Now I didn't dispute your judgement
of the cartoons in question because that's, well irrelevant, as the
principle involved in general, not specific. As for further expansion,
why would I do that? Are you now disagreeing with my statement?
Aaron Mojo
>shows, they should get the original people back, and make NEW Episodes.
>Same Style as the original, since most people don't care for updated
>material.
This absolutely would not work. I have a feeling any of the people involved
in animating the old He-Man show would be embarassed to do so again. I mean,
nostalgia aside -- the thing was a thirty-minute commercial.
And as for your suggestion on "new" Bugs Bunny cartoons... No. Mel Blanc
has passed on. That's like the Muppets continuing to use Kermit and Ernie all
the time, or making a new Superman movie while Christopher Reeve is in his
wheelchair... There's just something *wrong* with it.
Plus whoever's doing the Warner voices now just sucks.
-Aaron!
Us do OPPOSITE of all Earthly things! Us HATE beauty! Us LOVE ugliness!
Am BIG CRIME to make anything PERFECT on BIZARRO WORLD!
Peter Destructo (not Koby Chodosh)
>> Well, what did you EXPECT me to make of what you said?! You CALLED the
>> cartoons bad and called them entertaining. Seriously, I really do want
>> to hear you expand on the inequality a tad.
>
>No, I didn't call the Cartoons bad, I just said "Bad Cartoons do not
>equal non-entertaining ones" . Now I didn't dispute your judgement
>of the cartoons in question because that's, well irrelevant, as the
>principle involved in general, not specific. As for further expansion,
>why would I do that? Are you now disagreeing with my statement?
Um... well... I guess so... if only because that reply only served to
make even LESS sense than the last.
-Peter Confusatron
hardinger j. flapdoodle
old WB characters. however, i agree with the original sentiment that
certain old programs should be revived. *sigh* if only someone would start
making new exosquad episodes, i would be a happy sage, and i think more than
a few folks would be delighted to see new reboot eps, just to name two
series that deserve another chance, and that new episodes wouldn't
necessarily be either total schlock or a travesty to the original.
--
hardinger j. flapdoodle
sage of cartoon/anime lore, (pending) sexiest member of alt.nerd.obsessive
Aaron Mojo wrote...
Robert Buchanan
Chodosh) wrote:
>On Thu, 01 Jul 1999 20:51:39 -0400, Edymnion <ice...@cdc.net> wrote:
>
>>Well, our prayers will be answered soon. MTV is buisy making a branch off
>>science fiction channel, that will be VERY anime friendly. Reports say that
>>the guys who own MTV really don't like the guys over at Sci-Fi channel. To cut
>>into the Sci-Fi channel profit, they are going to make their channel show
>>unedited movies, and unedited anime.
>>All the stuff people were complaining the Sci-Fi didn't have, they will. So,
>>there is at least ONE network out there that listens.
>
>Oh, boy. The MTV programming geniuses branch out into another network.
>
so it would eventuall break down into 24-7 puff daddy and Mase
covering old J-pop songs?
TV...@webtv.net
days a week. It's not shared with any other station.
testing
TV...@webtv.net
tvfan: Cartoon Network shows Devlin. At least, it did a month or two
ago. It's on once a week on Friday night/Saturday morning somewhere
between midnight and 6 am Saturday mornings.
testing
vxpmrz3
aaro...@aol.comBizarro (Aaron Mojo) wrote:
>>And in an addition to my following note, since CN now owns most of >
>>these shows, they should get the original people back, and make NEW
>>Episodes. Same Style as the original, since most people don't care
>>for updated material.
> This absolutely would not work. I have a feeling any of the
>people involved in animating the old He-Man show would be embarassed
>to do so again. I mean, nostalgia aside -- the thing was a thirty-
>minute commercial.
You could always ask JMS of Babylon5/Crusade fame if he'd want to
do it again.. :)
> And as for your suggestion on "new" Bugs Bunny cartoons... No.
>Mel Blanc has passed on. That's like the Muppets continuing to use
>Kermit and Ernie all the time, or making a new Superman movie while
>Christopher Reeve is in his wheelchair... There's just something
>*wrong* with it.
Well, in all fairness, even were he not paralyzed, it'd still be wrong
having Christopher Reeves in a Superman movie..as Superman anyway.
Might make a good Supreme Flick tho.
vxpmrz3
? Less sense as in something you don't understand, or something you
think is nonsense? If the latter, tell me why, if the former, then
read the explanation:
You said that the cartoons were measured as bad by an objective
standard, yes? Well, I don't know about you, but I think what
entertains a person is very subjective, both in different individuals,
and within the individuals themselves. Think of it as being like
food: Sometimes you like a particular food, but there are other
times you just don't want any of it.
Comprende?
Peter Destructo!
>You said that the cartoons were measured as bad by an objective
>standard, yes? Well, I don't know about you, but I think what
>entertains a person is very subjective, both in different individuals,
>and within the individuals themselves. Think of it as being like
>food: Sometimes you like a particular food, but there are other
>times you just don't want any of it.
Oh, I see. So the cartoons that are, by definition "bad" (i.e. done by
Filmation) manage to entertain some people. Got it.
-Peter Destructo
"Well, we have a saying that goes if we can't be funny, then let's
just be weird. Whenever we get stuck we've always fallen back on that
and it's always worked." - Space Ghost Coast to Coast executive
producer Keith Crofford
"....Speaking of tights, Ricky Martin's pants will be auctioned off to
the highest bidder on June 12. Other ex-Menudo members, meanwhile,
will look at their own pants, hanging neatly in their closets, and
decide they never liked Ricky." - Vector Black, Ghost Planet News,
http://www.ghostplanet.com
TV...@webtv.net
entertaining at the same time. For example, I find the live-action
"Gilligan's Island" entertaining [ It's funny and makes me laugh], but
you can't really call it good. There's a bunch ofcontinuity errors in
the writing, among other things. Sure, it's not serious drama, , but I
still think it's entertaining.
testing
GCarras
>Path:
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axwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.slurp.net!not-for-mail
>From: "V. Star" <vs...@bigfoot.com>
>Newsgroups: alt.tv.cartoon-network
>References: <01bec419$0af04ea0$944f...@nb.net.nb.net>
><19990701211431...@ng-fz1.aol.com>
>Message-ID: <01bec4bd$b97d1d00$ab4f...@nb.net.nb.net>
>X-Newsreader: Microsoft Internet News 4.70.1161
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>14:00:54 CDT)
>NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 02 Jul 1999 14:00:54 CDT
>
>
>
>AkaneKitty posits in article
> <19990701211431...@ng-fz1.aol.com>...
>> Cartoons are only for family? Not to flame you here, but that's why
>anime, and
>> "American adult animation" gets such a bad rap.
>
>As Lissa Jean went on to state, I was only mentioning the benefit of a
>network that airs practically 24-hours-a-day entertainment that virtually
>nobody can find offensive. I am sure nobody here in this newsgroup would
>hold anything against such an ideal.
>
>bit less Scooby Doo (I know "a bit less" here is an understatement!); but
>I'm happy that the network is devoted to providing new cartoons that are
>quite consistent in quality. CN's CARTOON CARTOONS appeal to both adult and
>child alike
So do the FLINTSTONES, and HB-s feline bon viviant Top Cat (whatevwer happened
to him anyhow?) just to name HB examples and Tex AVery,WB,etc.
An Ally McBeal Style of Life gets me through the day.
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