AOQ Review 5-6: "Family"
Arbitrar Of Quality
threads.
BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER
Season Five, Episode 6: "Family"
(or "A little group it's always been/And always will, until the
end")
Writer: Joss Whedon
Director: Joss Whedon
I can't tell whether the cat is getting bigger, but she should. They
grow fast. Meanwhile, the witches spend some time getting as close to
each other as prime-time TV will allow. Based on past precedent, this
should mean that they'll break up in this episode, or have something
else bad happen to them. Can we defy form? Stay tuned!
Unsurprisingly, Buffy's getting even more overprotective of Dawn
while talking about how nothing's wrong. She comes off as
intolerable to live with in the well-played scene in which she tries to
keep her sister from leaving the house. After Dawn walks away,
Buffy's facial expressions say a lot to me: I really screwed that one
up, didn't I? But what else can I do? (The Slayer isn't going to
talk, but her mind is, like, a tel-e-peh-thy.) She's acting more
like Joyce during The High School Years than she'd probably care to
admit.
I like some of the little details during the moving scene; the
wrestling amused me for some reason, especially since Xander seemed to
be winning. The family theme gets firmly entrenched very early, with
the only question being how Tara will fit in. Her joke that no one
laughs at is a good way to say a lot without actually spending huge
chunks of screen time on it. The followup Buffy/Xander conversation in
the magic shop is a bit of a labored gag, but it also makes a point.
No consideration of not showing up for the birthday or anything mean,
but it's a favor to a friend rather than something they actually want
to do. Willow's friends like Tara in theory, and are making some
effort to welcome her into their group given how important it seems to
Wil, but they simply don't know her or really "get" her. So how
does that relate to the Slaypack allied to help her at the end? I'm
going to take the stance that what matters is Willow: her family is
their family, so Tara doesn't need to "prove" herself as cool to
anyone else.
Not glad to see the villain from last week back, but on the plus side
she's only in a few short scenes. Ben The Man-Nurse also appears
again and barely doesn't die. Looks like he'll be a recurring
character. Don't you love it when the show drops little lines like
"they told me Sunnydale was gonna be interesting," that suggest
that there might be more than meets the eye going on, yet can also be
read as totally innocent? Well, I do.
I thought I was so clever classifying the Buffy/Spike fight as a dream
the moment he threw his first punch, or kick, or whatever. But it
turns out it's a *fantasy*, not a dream, making me feel less smart.
You're a crafty bastard, Joss. You may have won this round, but
there will be others.
Taking a second to speak well of an actor who hasn't left much of an
impression on me before -
Blucas does a good job with what he's given this week. The
I'm-giving-you-a-chance-here "you tell me" conversation is
followed by a bit of quiet disappointment at Buffy pushing him out of
her life the way he fears. Worked for me. He's understated without
being so boring while drinking in Willy's Place, pondering Buffy
things and maybe contemplating how many of his old opinions and
prejudices he's kept and how many he's gotten rid of.
So our central plot thread involves Tara's dad and family showing up.
We kinda know where the story's going after her instinctive "yes,
sir," but I guess we do have to do the actual exposition. The story
per se doesn't thrill me, except for the suddenness with which her
cousin lashes out, but the episode is still effective because of the
strength of the W/T scenes both here and throughout the last year. One
thing I wasn't expecting was for her to go ahead and curse everyone
- is she slipping into darkness? one wonders on first viewing.
Before we answer that question, we have that rarest of creatures, a
fight against invisible enemies that's actually a decent action scene
and doesn't look too stupid. Liked Anya with the crystal ball, and
Spike's unseen and unappreciated contribution. He makes himself
pretty useful this week, but no ones about to give him a medal for it.
After Tara undoes her spell, the writing and acting of the aftermath
are damn near flawless. I love pretty much everything here. As she
should, she tries to fix things, apologizes loudly, and starts to
explain her motivations immediately. It's quick, but it's played
like she learned a lot from this mistake. Another nice touch is seeing
how Tara was going to tell Willow and the others everything on her own,
but her father is impatient to move the conversation along. From
there, Hannigan absolutely nails Willow's mix of hurt and panic,
doing amazing things with demeanor as well as dialogue. The line
"was all that just a lie?" is kinda a trite and stupid thing to
say, but I think that's part of the point - Willow's not quick
with words at times like this, and really really needs to hear some
reassurance. What's funny is that Mrs. Quality's reaction to
Buffy's "you gotta come through me" was sarcasm about never
having seen that coming. But I actually wasn't sure until she said
it - Buffy can be pretty unforgiving. Shouldn't have doubted her
here, though; must be slipping in my old age.
I'm of mixed feelings about having the demon thing be a superstition
designed to keep the wimmin-folk in line or whatever. And that's
ignoring the fact that I don't really know how such a thing would
continue to work after everyone saw her visibly failing to become a
demon. On the one hand, the story might've been more interesting had
Tara's father genuinely thought he was acting out of the world's
best interests. I like conflicts between right and right. (Of course,
given the "She" precedent, I'm sure people would start whining
that it would complicate the allegory about homophobia, and we
wouldn't want actual drama or interesting things getting in the way
of our allegories.) On the other hand, the way in which it's
revealed and played out is highly cool, especially the timing with
which Spike hits her and recoils. Despite the awesomeness of the
moment, I must nitpick and point out that allowing him to throw the
punch at all before causing the pain is inconsistent with the way
Spike's implant has worked in the past...
Sometimes a little bit of sap gets to me, even though I try to keep up
the relentless snark. Here the final montage at The Bronze is very
nice. It's a triumph of little moments: think of the transition from
"are you happy now?" to this sequence. Willow and Xander chatting
and laughing like old times. The followup to the joke scene from the
first act ("but it's still not funny"). Dawn giving Tara a
broom, with a bow around it. And above all, the way the actors sell
Willow and Tara being so incredibly happy. I think I was dangerously
close to cracking a smile.
This Is Really Stupid But I Laughed Anyway moment(s):
- "You said you got a present already." "Yeah, that was a
tangled web of lies, sweetie."
- "A lot of young people nowadays are experimenting with shortness.
Gotta nip that in the bud."
- Dawn doing Buffy-style bluster
- "You're dealing with all of us." "Except me." "Except
Spike."
So...
One-sentence summary: Moving.
AOQ rating: Excellent
[Season Five so far:
1) "Buffy Vs. Dracula" - Good
2) "Real Me" - Decent
3) "The Replacement" - Good
4) "Out Of My Mind" - Weak
5) "No Place Like Home" - Decent
6) "Family" - Excellent]
mariposas rand mair fheal greykitten tomys des anges
> being so boring while drinking in Willy's Place, pondering Buffy
> things and maybe contemplating how many of his old opinions and
> prejudices he's kept and how many he's gotten rid of.
in case you missed it the brunette vampire vamp at the bar
is the same blonde -sandy- that vampwillow killed in doppelgangland
> I'm of mixed feelings about having the demon thing be a superstition
> designed to keep the wimmin-folk in line or whatever. And that's
> ignoring the fact that I don't really know how such a thing would
> continue to work after everyone saw her visibly failing to become a
the show isnt anti-religion but it is anti-religion-used-to-manipulate-people
you can see it here and elsewhere
this also explains why tara deliberatly futzed a locator spell last year
she was afraid to would reveal her
arf meow arf - nsa fodder
ny dnrqn greebevfz ahpyrne obzo vena gnyvona ovt oebgure
if you meet buddha on the usenet killfile him
EGK
wrote:
>One-sentence summary: Moving.
>
>AOQ rating: Excellent
>
>[Season Five so far:
>1) "Buffy Vs. Dracula" - Good
>2) "Real Me" - Decent
>3) "The Replacement" - Good
>4) "Out Of My Mind" - Weak
>5) "No Place Like Home" - Decent
>6) "Family" - Excellent]
I long ago gave up trying to predict your reviews. I find you to be all
over the map.
I always thought Family was one of the worst episodes of the series because
of the cliches and preachiness involved. I Definitely thought it was one of
the worst pieces of writing from Joss Whedon. It would have made a good
Afternoon Special.
I remember how the analogy of witchcraft to lesbianism had me groaning out
loud and rolling my eyes at one point. It was when Tara's father is in her
apartment and admonishes her for leaving her "toys" right out where he could
find them.
--
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"There would be a lot more civility in this world if people
didn't take that as an invitation to walk all over you"
(Calvin and Hobbes)
Lord Usher
news:1150140108.1...@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com:
> On the one hand, the story might've been more interesting had Tara's
> father genuinely thought he was acting out of the world's best
> interests. I like conflicts between right and right. (Of course,
> given the "She" precedent, I'm sure people would start whining
> that it would complicate the allegory about homophobia, and we
> wouldn't want actual drama or interesting things getting in the way
> of our allegories.)
Bad analogy. In this case, the complication would conform quite nicely to
the real-world truth being allegorized -- since many antifeminists and
homophobes *do* genuinely believe they're acting in the best interest of
their loved ones and the world. Whereas the Episode That Dare Not Speak Its
Name introduced a "complication" that runs directly contrary to everything
the episode was trying to accomplish symbolically.
--
Lord Usher
"I'm here to kill you, not to judge you."
Arbitrar Of Quality
> in case you missed it the brunette vampire vamp at the bar
> is the same blonde -sandy- that vampwillow killed in doppelgangland
Didn't notice that. Cool.
-AOQ
Arbitrar Of Quality
EGK wrote:
> I always thought Family was one of the worst episodes of the series because
> of the cliches and preachiness involved. I Definitely thought it was one of
> the worst pieces of writing from Joss Whedon. It would have made a good
> Afternoon Special.
I don't actually disagree about the preachiness factor, and it's not
one of the series's stronger metaphors. But I think it's a minor
enough complaint not to hurt the episode much. That stuff is pushed
enough into the background, so although intolerance is the driving
force behind "Family," it's not the focus; the focus is on how Tara and
the others will react, which is a strong emotional story.
-AOQ
Opus the Penguin
> On the other hand, the way in which it's
> revealed and played out is highly cool, especially the timing with
> which Spike hits her and recoils. Despite the awesomeness of the
> moment, I must nitpick and point out that allowing him to throw the
> punch at all before causing the pain is inconsistent with the way
> Spike's implant has worked in the past...
What about his initial escape from The Initiative? Even putting that
aside, haven't there been other times where he's thrown a punch and
felt the pain?
--
Opus the Penguin
The best darn penguin in all of Usenet
Arbitrar Of Quality
We disagree on what it was trying to accomplish symbolically. "She" is
clunky as a metaphor, but it isn't preaching so much as introducing
something as a plot element; it expects its audience to take it as a
given that sexual repression/mutilation is bad.;
-AOQ
One Bit Shy
news:1150140108.1...@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER
> Season Five, Episode 6: "Family"
> I can't tell whether the cat is getting bigger, but she should. They
> grow fast.
There is a theory that the cat represents something. Of course just about
everything in this series is said to represent something, so I suppose
that's not news. But I thought I'd mention it.
I was amused at Tara coming up with the front of a camel. Shades of Eric
the half bee.
> She's acting more
> like Joyce during The High School Years than she'd probably care to
> admit.
Yeah, what a fate for Buffy. Poor Buffy. Poor Dawn! Did you notice last
episode Joyce telling Buffy that she's so grown up? Though I don't think
Joyce ever came up with anything as lame as someone being a bad influence
because she's too short.
> I like some of the little details during the moving scene; the
> wrestling amused me for some reason, especially since Xander seemed to
> be winning.
You and Tara. Tara's little smile is what makes the wrestling work for me.
Kind of caps the family feel of the scene.
> The family theme gets firmly entrenched very early, with
> the only question being how Tara will fit in. Her joke that no one
> laughs at is a good way to say a lot without actually spending huge
> chunks of screen time on it.
I like how Tara tries to put it out there with attitude, as if it's a clever
schoolyard taunt. Of course, that's about the last attitude that Tara could
pull off. And, well, the joke's still not funny. ;-)
> I'm
> going to take the stance that what matters is Willow: her family is
> their family, so Tara doesn't need to "prove" herself as cool to
> anyone else.
That's a good part of it I think. Sort of a variation on how you don't
choose your family, but you stand up for it none the less. I think they're
also fundamentally repelled by her blood family and offended at them
attempting to compel Tara's action. Considering what we know of past family
experience for Buffy, Xander and Willow all, one suspects that parental
instruction isn't exactly their favorite concept. (Off course that does
contrast awkwardly with Bufffy's attitude towards Dawn.) And they've also
all screwed up enough in the past to have real compassion for where Tara was
at.
> Not glad to see the villain from last week back, but on the plus side
> she's only in a few short scenes. Ben The Man-Nurse also appears
> again and barely doesn't die.
You know, if TV is any guide, I don't think I'd ever want to step in a
locker room again. Dangerous place.
> I thought I was so clever classifying the Buffy/Spike fight as a dream
> the moment he threw his first punch, or kick, or whatever. But it
> turns out it's a *fantasy*, not a dream, making me feel less smart.
> You're a crafty bastard, Joss. You may have won this round, but
> there will be others.
I must say that his fantasies are beautifully choreographed. That was a lot
more fun than most of the real fights. But... poor Harmony.
> Taking a second to speak well of an actor who hasn't left much of an
> impression on me before -
> Blucas does a good job with what he's given this week. The
> I'm-giving-you-a-chance-here "you tell me" conversation is
> followed by a bit of quiet disappointment at Buffy pushing him out of
> her life the way he fears. Worked for me. He's understated without
> being so boring while drinking in Willy's Place, pondering Buffy
> things and maybe contemplating how many of his old opinions and
> prejudices he's kept and how many he's gotten rid of.
It's so sad. With the super strength gone and Riley seeming to have mostly
set aside his Angel jealousy, and with Buffy agreeing to Riley's proposition
last episode that they take care of each other, there appeared to be for a
moment an opportunity to improve their relationship. I don't think Buffy
truly saw all of Riley's issues when she agreed, but I think she saw some of
it and was sincere then. But, alas, then the Dawn thing happened, and
here's the slayer gig getting in the way again.
Should she have told Riley about Dawn? Secrets, after all, have caused
Buffy a lot of trouble in the past. But I think a very good case can be
made for this one - at least for now. She doesn't know how to defend Dawn
at the moment. The best defense right now is that Dawn's status is a
secret. It's interesting that she confided in Giles, though - and not
Riley. That may say something about Riley's status. Where he ranks as
confidant. Or perhaps Giles watcher status trumps such concerns for a
matter like Dawn.
Not an easy choice however one wants to look at it. But a trouble making
one, for Riley is too perceptive not to see that something is up with Dawn
that Buffy is keeping from him.
If we could somehow go back and fix the past, it would have helped so much
if Buffy had been more forthcoming with Riley all along. Let him in as it
were. After all, standing with Buffy is why he's in Sunnydale. But, on the
other hand, I think Riley needs to trust Buffy's judgment more too. Not
everything is about their relationship and doesn't have to always be seen
through that prism.
I mention this now because of the analogy that Xander made (his "friend") a
couple of episodes ago. I still think that Xander relates to Riley's
situation in large part by remembering his own relationship with Buffy. And
the key for Xander eventually coming to terms with that was his choosing to
trust Buffy.
Anyway, enough of the analysis. Time to watch it play out.
> So our central plot thread involves Tara's dad and family showing up.
> We kinda know where the story's going after her instinctive "yes,
> sir," but I guess we do have to do the actual exposition. The story
> per se doesn't thrill me, except for the suddenness with which her
> cousin lashes out, but the episode is still effective because of the
> strength of the W/T scenes both here and throughout the last year. One
> thing I wasn't expecting was for her to go ahead and curse everyone
> - is she slipping into darkness? one wonders on first viewing.
I like very much the scene with her brother in the Magic Box. He is so
grossly out of place there, reeking of a kind of trouble that may offend
more than a demon. In a sense, I guess he's shown to be more trouble.
> Before we answer that question, we have that rarest of creatures, a
> fight against invisible enemies that's actually a decent action scene
> and doesn't look too stupid. Liked Anya with the crystal ball, and
> Spike's unseen and unappreciated contribution. He makes himself
> pretty useful this week, but no ones about to give him a medal for it.
He goes there to watch Buffy die and then voluntarily steps in to save her.
Yep, Spike is deep in it now.
> What's funny is that Mrs. Quality's reaction to
> Buffy's "you gotta come through me" was sarcasm about never
> having seen that coming. But I actually wasn't sure until she said
> it - Buffy can be pretty unforgiving. Shouldn't have doubted her
> here, though; must be slipping in my old age.
It probably helped that SMG really sold it. The way she started that
speech, you had to think maybe Tara was toast.
> I'm of mixed feelings about having the demon thing be a superstition
> designed to keep the wimmin-folk in line or whatever.
Well, it's a Joss script and Joss show. This sort of view of feminism and
history of patriarchy (you note that Giles referred to himself as a
patriarch earlier) is part of the attitude of the series and shows up here
and there.
However, I appreciate the choice on different terms. For one thing, it
makes it easier to have the Spike moment of being a demon tester followed by
his knowing lines about what the father is up to. More importantly, I like
the choice for how it brings Ajnya into the scene. She has her own reasons
for being less than happy with that family's attitude, and she ought to
challenge them on it. If Anya's accepted in the group, then whether Tara
has demon in her isn't the issue. Tara has already earned her place.
That's what Anya is really saying. She's the one who bares the false
construct of that family. And then we watch it crumble down around them,
with Tara's cousin left in bitter denial - so clearly on the wrong side of
the divide that Tara can't help but be happy with her own choice.
I don't think the conflict between "right and right" as you put it would
allow for Tara's unambiguous feeling of choosing right - her happiness. I
think she really needed to escape something odious.
> Despite the awesomeness of the
> moment, I must nitpick and point out that allowing him to throw the
> punch at all before causing the pain is inconsistent with the way
> Spike's implant has worked in the past...
I think the bigger nitpick would be to wonder if Spike's test is even
accurate. Has Spike ever tested it on a demon/human mixed blood?
> Sometimes a little bit of sap gets to me, even though I try to keep up
> the relentless snark. Here the final montage at The Bronze is very
> nice. It's a triumph of little moments: think of the transition from
> "are you happy now?" to this sequence. Willow and Xander chatting
> and laughing like old times. The followup to the joke scene from the
> first act ("but it's still not funny"). Dawn giving Tara a
> broom, with a bow around it. And above all, the way the actors sell
> Willow and Tara being so incredibly happy. I think I was dangerously
> close to cracking a smile.
I liked Dawn clumsily running around the place - even if she looked 11
again.
It's a very sweet scene. One of the better just nice moments the series has
offered.
> So...
>
> One-sentence summary: Moving.
>
> AOQ rating: Excellent
Well, I guess it did move you. I like it, but only in the Good category.
It might be worth a quick moment to reflect on the follow-up to the friends
growing apart issue from the end of S4.
Giles is Buffy's watcher again. Buffy is training more than ever and even
engaged in advanced slayer studies.
Xander has a real job and real responsibility and has moved out of his
basement into a real apartment - with Anya, who is now working for Giles and
contributing useful knowledge - like the magic detecting trance spell that
Buffy used.
Now Tara has been emphatically pulled into the group, which also must please
Willow no end.
Buffy has moved back home, which seems to bring everybody in touch with
Joyce and Dawn.
And the Magic Box is turning into the new Slayer Central. Finally a
suitable replacement for the old high school library.
Riley isn't in such a good place, but at least we can see him bonding with
Xander and generally being accepted by everybody.
There are a couple storm clouds on the horizon. (When aren't there?) But
how often have you seen the group this solid?
OBS
Eric Hunter
> A reminder: Please avoid spoilers for later episodes in these review
> threads.
>
>
> BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER
> Season Five, Episode 6: "Family"
>
> designed to keep the wimmin-folk in line or whatever. And that's
> ignoring the fact that I don't really know how such a thing would
> continue to work after everyone saw her visibly failing to become a
> demon.
My assumption was that upon reaching adulthood the
women of Tara's family become more powerful witches,
and that is explained in family lore as being the
demon-side coming out. Either that or doin' wha'
the menfolk say keeps the demon under control.
> the way in which it's
> revealed and played out is highly cool, especially the timing with
> which Spike hits her and recoils. Despite the awesomeness of the
> moment, I must nitpick and point out that allowing him to throw the
> punch at all before causing the pain is inconsistent with the way
> Spike's implant has worked in the past...
It hurts him if he tries to hurt a human, but not
if he tries to hurt a demon. How does the chip
distinguish? We don't know, but at least in
part it seems to react to Spike's intentions. If
he is doing "good" by hitting a demon, no chip
firing. If he is doing evil, by hitting a human,
the chip fires. Here he was doing good by showing
whether Tara was a human or a demon, and it was not
until the chip somehow identified Tara as human that
it fired. Also he didn't hit her very hard, and the
chip reacts more strongly to greater violence.
Eric.
--
Michael Ikeda
news:128rpil...@news.supernews.com:
> "Arbitrar Of Quality" <tsm...@wildmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1150140108.1...@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>
>> BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER
>> Season Five, Episode 6: "Family"
>
>
>> She's acting more
>> like Joyce during The High School Years than she'd probably
>> care to admit.
>
> Yeah, what a fate for Buffy. Poor Buffy. Poor Dawn! Did you
> notice last episode Joyce telling Buffy that she's so grown up?
> Though I don't think Joyce ever came up with anything as lame as
> someone being a bad influence because she's too short.
Although Buffy does often sound lame when she's trying to improvise
a convincing-sounding lie.
With Buffy, secrecy doesn't generally require an explanation. One
could consider it a sign of progress that she even told Giles.
Note that she has NOT told either Willow or Xander about Dawn.
Riley isn't the only one she's keeping this secret from, although I
suspect he may think he is. Which, of course, makes things worse.
>
>
>> Before we answer that question, we have that rarest of
>> creatures, a fight against invisible enemies that's actually a
>> decent action scene and doesn't look too stupid. Liked Anya
>> with the crystal ball, and Spike's unseen and unappreciated
>> contribution. He makes himself pretty useful this week, but no
>> ones about to give him a medal for it.
>
> He goes there to watch Buffy die and then voluntarily steps in
> to save her. Yep, Spike is deep in it now.
I tend to think he went to help Buffy but couldn't quite bring
himself to admit it beforehand.
>
>
>> What's funny is that Mrs. Quality's reaction to
>> Buffy's "you gotta come through me" was sarcasm about never
>> having seen that coming. But I actually wasn't sure until she
>> said it - Buffy can be pretty unforgiving. Shouldn't have
>> doubted her here, though; must be slipping in my old age.
>
> It probably helped that SMG really sold it. The way she started
> that speech, you had to think maybe Tara was toast.
>
I seem to also recall Willow initially looking like SHE was afraid
Buffy was going to let the Maclay's take Tara.
--
Michael Ikeda mmi...@erols.com
"Telling a statistician not to use sampling is like telling an
astronomer they can't say there is a moon and stars"
Lynne Billard, past president American Statistical Association
chr...@removethistoreply.gwu.edu
> A reminder: Please avoid spoilers for later episodes in these review
> threads.
>
> BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER
> Season Five, Episode 6: "Family"
> (or "A little group it's always been/And always will, until the
> end")
> Writer: Joss Whedon
> Director: Joss Whedon
Ah yes, Family. It's not one of the major classics like Innocence or
Hush, but I really like it. Like all the Joss-written, Joss-directed
episodes, it's chock-full of great moments, some big and some
blink-and-you'll-miss-it subtle, and all the main cast members are at the
top of their game. (So is Amber Benson -- technically she wasn't a main
cast member yet, but she really should have been.)
There's a pretty clear lesbianism-magic parallel going on here, but
Family's most important theme is something more basic and universal. Was
it in the Firefly DVD commentaries that Joss said all his shows are about
created family? Well, Family is one of the clearest and purest examples
of this theme in his whole body of work. Talking about a show's message
always makes me wince, but Family does have a message: the people who love
you and care for you are your *real* family, whether or not they're the
people connected to you by blood or marriage. Traditionally you're
supposed to love your family; Joss would respond that it's love that makes
the family, not the other way around.
(BTW, Tara's family have no idea she's gay, do they?)
> I like some of the little details during the moving scene; the
> wrestling amused me for some reason, especially since Xander seemed to
> be winning.
I liked Xander and Riley's roughhousing in this scene, along with the mock
insults (the supposed Latin name-calling, "Then how come Xander didn't
laugh?"). Perhaps they're both feeling the relative lack of male
companionship? Riley in particular is probably missing the kind of macho
friendship he had with Forrest and Graham.
> The family theme gets firmly entrenched very early, with
> the only question being how Tara will fit in. Her joke that no one
> laughs at is a good way to say a lot without actually spending huge
> chunks of screen time on it.
Right before that joke, notice Tara's smile as she watches the others
bantering and roughhousing. She's really happy to be part of the group
(even if a very quiet part). At last she's getting a taste of the kind of
companionship that, as we soon learn, she never got from her biological
family. This, of course, makes the embarrassment from her failed joke all
the more painful, instantly turning her fearful that she doesn't fit in
with the group after all.
> strength of the W/T scenes both here and throughout the last year. One
> thing I wasn't expecting was for her to go ahead and curse everyone
> - is she slipping into darkness? one wonders on first viewing.
And you remember the demon locating spell Tara sabotaged last year, right?
Now Willow suggests trying the spell again, and Tara not only says no but
begs off the Scooby meeting, hurting Willow's feelings in the process.
At this point we have to wonder if Tara really is the woman we thought we
knew. Maybe her father's curse story will turn out to be self-fulfilling.
> Before we answer that question, we have that rarest of creatures, a
> fight against invisible enemies that's actually a decent action scene
> and doesn't look too stupid. Liked Anya with the crystal ball, and
> Spike's unseen and unappreciated contribution. He makes himself
> pretty useful this week, but no ones about to give him a medal for it.
But this raises the question of why Spike was invisible. A vampire is
essentially a demon in a human body. If Tara thought that her spell would
just hide her supposed demon side, only showing her human side, then why
would it hide Spike's human body?
While I'm at it, two other problems I have with Family. I don't like the
demons' makeup: to me it looks less like suppurating sores and more like
Insane Clown Posse. And Harmony's vapid chatter was a little too broad
for me this time.
> On the one hand, the story might've been more interesting had
> Tara's father genuinely thought he was acting out of the world's
> best interests. I like conflicts between right and right.
Me too. In this case, though, Tara's father had to be at least a little
rotten, to fit the Family theme. Regardless of what their DNA says, he is
*not* treating Tara the way a true family member should.
> of our allegories.) On the other hand, the way in which it's
> revealed and played out is highly cool, especially the timing with
> which Spike hits her and recoils.
And once again, evil Spike is the first one to figure someone out.
I'll just Me Too your comments about the final Magic Shop scene. Very
well acted, with special praise for AH.
> Sometimes a little bit of sap gets to me, even though I try to keep up
> the relentless snark. Here the final montage at The Bronze is very
> nice. It's a triumph of little moments: think of the transition from
> "are you happy now?" to this sequence.
The sap here (like in the last scene of The Prom) is allowable. The show
has earned it. I love it all, from Xander and Willow cracking up at some
unheard joke to Riley's sudden appearance to the final "awwww" moment.
The gang lives through so much terror and misery, it's nice for us to see
them enjoying a night of unambiguous happiness. I don't think it's a
spoiler to say that this won't be happening every episode....
A couple of random little touches that I liked:
-Willow's look of expectation as she waits for Tara to introduce her to
her family, and her quiet disappointment when she's just lumped in with
the other unnamed friends.
-The beginning of the bar scene, when we don't see who the bartender is
talking to. Surely it's Spike? Nope, it's Captain America, hanging out
at the demon bar.
-Spike's excitement at hearing that the demons are going to kill Buffy.
He knows he has to be there, but deep down inside he's not sure which side
he's going to root for.
-The transition between Spike's fantasy and reality. Fantasy Buffy: "I'm
coming right--" Harmony: "Now!" (Though maybe this belongs in the
TIRSBILA section.)
-Tara's semi-autobiographical kitty story
-Willow's comment that families "make you crazy." Doubly true in Tara's
case, because not only has her biological family made her miserable, but
her desperation to keep her new family will lead her to do something
really bad.
> This Is Really Stupid But I Laughed Anyway moment(s):
Here are some of my favorite funny lines, stupid or not:
-"There's nothing like getting your ass kicked to make your ass hurt."
-"This earns you a big reward. There could be outfits."
-"You're in a magic shop, and you can't think what Tara would like. I
believe you're both profoundly stupid."
-"Yeah, we're building a race of frog people. It's a good time."
-"You have the cutest suppurating sores!"
I've grown to love this episode, but it was mostly just confusing when I
saw the original airing. This was because -- shameful confession -- I
wasn't yet a regular viewer. I had seen a couple of episodes from season
1 and 2, but I had no idea who Tara was (let alone Anya and Dawn), so much
of the impact was lost. And I was also a bit distracted while watching,
because it happened to air on the night of the 2000 Presidential election.
But after numerous repeat viewings thanks to reruns, Internet piracy and
DVDs, Family has become one of my very favorite Buffy episodes.
> AOQ rating: Excellent
I'll agree with that. It's a small, overlooked gem.
--Chris
______________________________________________________________________
chrisg [at] gwu.edu On the Internet, nobody knows I'm a dog.
David E. Milligan
"mariposas rand mair fheal greykitten tomys des anges"
news:mair_fheal-9C517...@sn-ip.vsrv-sjc.supernews.net...
>> her life the way he fears. Worked for me. He's understated without
>> being so boring while drinking in Willy's Place, pondering Buffy
>> things and maybe contemplating how many of his old opinions and
>> prejudices he's kept and how many he's gotten rid of.
>
> in case you missed it the brunette vampire vamp at the bar
> is the same blonde -sandy- that vampwillow killed in doppelgangland
>
>> I'm of mixed feelings about having the demon thing be a superstition
>> designed to keep the wimmin-folk in line or whatever. And that's
>> ignoring the fact that I don't really know how such a thing would
>> continue to work after everyone saw her visibly failing to become a
>
> the show isnt anti-religion but it is
> anti-religion-used-to-manipulate-people
> you can see it here and elsewhere
>
> this also explains why tara deliberatly futzed a locator spell last year
> she was afraid to would reveal her
>
THANK YOU !! !! !! That was driving me CRAZY, trying to figure out
why she did that!
David
chr...@removethistoreply.gwu.edu
>>
>> Yeah, what a fate for Buffy. Poor Buffy. Poor Dawn! Did you
>> notice last episode Joyce telling Buffy that she's so grown up?
>> Though I don't think Joyce ever came up with anything as lame as
>> someone being a bad influence because she's too short.
>
> Although Buffy does often sound lame when she's trying to improvise
> a convincing-sounding lie.
Yep, this has been a consistent element of Buffy's character since WTTH,
when she says that the gym she burned down was "full of vam-- asbestos."
Asbestos? Other examples include her saying in School Hard that the gym
could have been burned down by mice (who were smoking), the angry puppy
from Harsh Light of Day, and her attempt to go undercover in Anne. I
should compile a list.
On the other hand, while Buffy is lousy at concocting cover stories, she
can be all too successful at keeping secrets.
jil...@hotmail.com
chr...@removethistoreply.gwu.edu wrote:
> But this raises the question of why Spike was invisible. A vampire is
> essentially a demon in a human body. If Tara thought that her spell would
> just hide her supposed demon side, only showing her human side, then why
> would it hide Spike's human body?
*sigh* Because vampires are demons animating dead human bodies. The
blood in those bodies is demonic, hence it can be used to create others
of the same kind. Whatever Tara THOUGHT the spell would do, what it
did was render all demons invisible to the Scoobies. Which, when you
think about it, makes that spell extremely dangerous to anyone it's
used on. This is not a spell one uses on your friends in this
particular Jossverse.
chr...@removethistoreply.gwu.edu
>
> chr...@removethistoreply.gwu.edu wrote:
>> But this raises the question of why Spike was invisible. A vampire is
>> essentially a demon in a human body. If Tara thought that her spell would
>> just hide her supposed demon side, only showing her human side, then why
>> would it hide Spike's human body?
>
> *sigh* Because vampires are demons animating dead human bodies. The
> blood in those bodies is demonic, hence it can be used to create others
> of the same kind. Whatever Tara THOUGHT the spell would do, what it
> did was render all demons invisible to the Scoobies.
Well, I'm not trying to (re)start a debate on this point, especially since
I'm not sure what I think. It just seems weird to me that a demon-hiding
spell would extend to the non-demon side of a demon-human hybrid. Suppose
someone had cast this spell on Eyghon-possessed Jenny in The Dark Age.
Would Jenny's body have been rendered invisible? Maybe; but it just seems
a little dubious to me. But I agree, Tara could well be wrong about how
the spell works. Magic in the Buffyverse is far from an exact science.
> Which, when you
> think about it, makes that spell extremely dangerous to anyone it's
> used on. This is not a spell one uses on your friends in this
> particular Jossverse.
Definitely. Tara has made an error in judgment serious enough that the
viewer really could believe Buffy and the others would reject her. (Well,
except for Willow.)
chr...@removethistoreply.gwu.edu
> -Willow's comment that families "make you crazy." Doubly true in Tara's
> case, because not only has her biological family made her miserable, but
> her desperation to keep her new family will lead her to do something
> really bad.
And I completely forgot to mention the third way Willow's comment is borne
out: the way Buffy and Dawn are doing their best to drive each other
crazy in the experimenting-with-shortness scene.
Bill Reid
Arbitrar Of Quality <tsm...@wildmail.com> wrote in message
news:1150140108.1...@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>
>
> BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER
> Season Five, Episode 6: "Family"
SUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCCCKKKKKKKKKED!!!!!
One of the absolute worst of the series, the nightmare of the "social
issue" metaphor so thinly-disguised it's like it's wrapped in cellophane,
so heavy-handed you'd swear it was a George Forman right cross,
so crappy it should have been flushed, which is what I did to it,
until you reminded me it existed...
>
> One-sentence summary: Moving.
>
Yeah, it moved right out of Joss Whedon's constipated bowels...
> AOQ rating: Excellent
>
> [Season Five so far:
> 1) "Buffy Vs. Dracula" - Good
NO, stupid, just a stupid gimmick show where they get to play with
all the Dracula nonsense; about as significant as "Love At First Bite"
or any other lame vampire "spoof"
> 2) "Real Me" - Decent
I don't approve of adding a moppet to an aging cast; I think a shark
should have eaten her in this episode...however, there was some kind
of funny stuff there...
> 3) "The Replacement" - Good
This I liked, particularly the "Snoopy dance"...
> 4) "Out Of My Mind" - Weak
This was OK, fun to watch...
> 5) "No Place Like Home" - Decent
HATE "Glory", the actress who plays her sucks with no range other
than playing characters like...well, like "Glory"...in any event, since
Dawn didn't get eaten by a shark earlier, now we have TWO crappy
characters in the show...
> 6) "Family" - Excellent]
>
OK, that does it...first you don't rate episodes like the silent episode
as being SUPER-DUPER DOUBLE TOP SECRET STUPENDOUS,
then this...you're off my Christmas card list...
---
William Ernest Reid
Mel
Arbitrar Of Quality wrote:
> A reminder: Please avoid spoilers for later episodes in these review
> threads.
>
> I'm of mixed feelings about having the demon thing be a superstition
> designed to keep the wimmin-folk in line or whatever. And that's
> ignoring the fact that I don't really know how such a thing would
> continue to work after everyone saw her visibly failing to become a
> demon.
What I noticed this time and not before, is that they didn't even need
Spike to hit Tara because everyone could _see_ her as soon as she came
in the door. It obviously didn't make her invisible, so she therefore
wasn't a demon. Spike just confirmed it with the punch.
Mel
Mel
Arbitrar Of Quality wrote:
She was blonde? Her hair looked brown to me.
Mel
George W Harris
<tsm...@wildmail.com> wrote:
There's no real reason you should. Her
reappearance is an example of what is sometimes
called continuity porn, although when exactly she
got turned is something of a mystery (in
Doppelgangland she was pretty much just killed).
:
:-AOQ
--
"If you take cranberries and stew them like applesauce, they taste more like
prunes than rhubarb does" -Groucho Marx
George W. Harris For actual email address, replace each 'u' with an 'i'
Mel
One Bit Shy wrote:
> "Arbitrar Of Quality" <tsm...@wildmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1150140108.1...@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>>Before we answer that question, we have that rarest of creatures, a
>>fight against invisible enemies that's actually a decent action scene
>>and doesn't look too stupid. Liked Anya with the crystal ball, and
>>Spike's unseen and unappreciated contribution. He makes himself
>>pretty useful this week, but no ones about to give him a medal for it.
>
>
> He goes there to watch Buffy die and then voluntarily steps in to save her.
> Yep, Spike is deep in it now.
>
>
Did he really? I got the impression he was only putting on a show for
Harmony.
She mentions the demon thingies are going after the Slayer and he gets a
worried
look on his face and immediately has to go "watch."
Looked to me like he was off to make sure nothing bad happened to her.
Mel
George W Harris
wrote:
:> I'm
:> going to take the stance that what matters is Willow: her family is
:> their family, so Tara doesn't need to "prove" herself as cool to
:> anyone else.
:
:That's a good part of it I think. Sort of a variation on how you don't
:choose your family, but you stand up for it none the less. I think they're
:also fundamentally repelled by her blood family and offended at them
:attempting to compel Tara's action. Considering what we know of past family
:experience for Buffy, Xander and Willow all, one suspects that parental
:instruction isn't exactly their favorite concept. (Off course that does
:contrast awkwardly with Bufffy's attitude towards Dawn.) And they've also
:all screwed up enough in the past to have real compassion for where Tara was
:at.
Gee, the idea of a found family being a strong
social unit. Is that something we've seen in another
Joss Whedon show?
--
Doesn't the fact that there are *exactly* 50 states seem a little suspicious?
Arbitrar Of Quality
> Giles is Buffy's watcher again. Buffy is training more than ever and even
> engaged in advanced slayer studies.
> Xander has a real job and real responsibility and has moved out of his
> basement into a real apartment - with Anya, who is now working for Giles and
> contributing useful knowledge - like the magic detecting trance spell that
> Buffy used.
> Now Tara has been emphatically pulled into the group, which also must please
> Willow no end.
> Buffy has moved back home, which seems to bring everybody in touch with
> Joyce and Dawn.
> And the Magic Box is turning into the new Slayer Central. Finally a
> suitable replacement for the old high school library.
> Riley isn't in such a good place, but at least we can see him bonding with
> Xander and generally being accepted by everybody.
>
> There are a couple storm clouds on the horizon. (When aren't there?) But
> how often have you seen the group this solid?
That's a nice way to think ab9ut it. That's what figurative families
do to fight the drifting-apart thing; they redefine their relationships
in a way that's in tune with their changing lives.
-AOQ
George W Harris
wrote:
:Yep, this has been a consistent element of Buffy's character since WTTH,
:when she says that the gym she burned down was "full of vam-- asbestos."
:Asbestos? Other examples include her saying in School Hard that the gym
:could have been burned down by mice (who were smoking), the angry puppy
:from Harsh Light of Day, and her attempt to go undercover in Anne. I
:should compile a list.
That list should definitely include the goofy
trenchcoat from "I Robot You Jane".
:
:--Chris
--
I'm not an actor, but I play one on TV!
Arbitrar Of Quality
anything to add to it suggest otherwise.
-AOQ
Don Sample
"One Bit Shy" <O...@nomail.sorry> wrote:
> "Arbitrar Of Quality" <tsm...@wildmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1150140108.1...@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>
> > BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER
> > Season Five, Episode 6: "Family"
>
> > She's acting more
> > like Joyce during The High School Years than she'd probably care to
> > admit.
>
> Yeah, what a fate for Buffy. Poor Buffy. Poor Dawn! Did you notice last
> episode Joyce telling Buffy that she's so grown up? Though I don't think
> Joyce ever came up with anything as lame as someone being a bad influence
> because she's too short.
And if she's shorter than Buffy, she must be a real munchkin.
> Should she have told Riley about Dawn? Secrets, after all, have caused
> Buffy a lot of trouble in the past. But I think a very good case can be
> made for this one - at least for now. She doesn't know how to defend Dawn
> at the moment. The best defense right now is that Dawn's status is a
> secret. It's interesting that she confided in Giles, though - and not
> Riley. That may say something about Riley's status. Where he ranks as
> confidant. Or perhaps Giles watcher status trumps such concerns for a
> matter like Dawn.
First rule of keeping secrets is don't tell them to people who don't
need to know. Giles needs to know because he's research guy, and he has
to know what he has to look for if they're going to learn more about the
Key and why the Beast is looking for it. There is no reason at this
point to tell Riley or the others about Dawn.
>
> > Before we answer that question, we have that rarest of creatures, a
> > fight against invisible enemies that's actually a decent action scene
> > and doesn't look too stupid. Liked Anya with the crystal ball, and
> > Spike's unseen and unappreciated contribution. He makes himself
> > pretty useful this week, but no ones about to give him a medal for it.
>
> He goes there to watch Buffy die and then voluntarily steps in to save her.
> Yep, Spike is deep in it now.
She's his Slayer. No one's going to kill her but him.
>
> > I'm of mixed feelings about having the demon thing be a superstition
> > designed to keep the wimmin-folk in line or whatever.
>
> Well, it's a Joss script and Joss show. This sort of view of feminism and
> history of patriarchy (you note that Giles referred to himself as a
> patriarch earlier) is part of the attitude of the series and shows up here
> and there.
Apparently the original plan for Tara was to make her partially
non-human, but Joss decided when he was writing this episode that it
worked better if she just thought she wasn't entirely human.
>
> I don't think the conflict between "right and right" as you put it would
> allow for Tara's unambiguous feeling of choosing right - her happiness. I
> think she really needed to escape something odious.
>
>
> > Despite the awesomeness of the
> > moment, I must nitpick and point out that allowing him to throw the
> > punch at all before causing the pain is inconsistent with the way
> > Spike's implant has worked in the past...
>
> I think the bigger nitpick would be to wonder if Spike's test is even
> accurate. Has Spike ever tested it on a demon/human mixed blood?
I've wondered about that too. Have we ever seen Spike attack Anya?
What would the chip do in that case? How about Angel? Would the chip
go "vampire, okay to kill" or would it detect his soul, and stop him?
How about Dawn, since she isn't really human?
--
Quando omni flunkus moritati
Visit the Buffy Body Count at <http://homepage.mac.com/dsample/>
Don Sample
Eric Hunter <hunt...@comcast.net.invalid> wrote:
> It hurts him if he tries to hurt a human, but not
> if he tries to hurt a demon. How does the chip
> distinguish? We don't know, but at least in
> part it seems to react to Spike's intentions. If
> he is doing "good" by hitting a demon, no chip
> firing. If he is doing evil, by hitting a human,
> the chip fires.
Ohg gur puvc qbrfa'g yrg uvz nggnpx rivy uhznaf, rvgure.
George W Harris
<tsm...@wildmail.com> wrote:
:Not glad to see the villain from last week back, but on the plus side
:she's only in a few short scenes. Ben The Man-Nurse also appears
:again and barely doesn't die.
It was damn lucky for him Glory happened by. I
guess she was in the hospital hunting down that demon.
--
Real men don't need macho posturing to bolster their egos.
George W. Harris For actual email address, replace each 'u' with an 'i'.
mariposas rand mair fheal greykitten tomys des anges
"One Bit Shy" <O...@nomail.sorry> wrote:
> I like very much the scene with her brother in the Magic Box. He is so
> grossly out of place there, reeking of a kind of trouble that may offend
> more than a demon. In a sense, I guess he's shown to be more trouble.
you can tell by his full and manly beard
thats he is someone to take seriously
mariposas rand mair fheal greykitten tomys des anges
chr...@removethistoreply.gwu.edu wrote:
> Michael Ikeda <mmi...@erols.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> Yeah, what a fate for Buffy. Poor Buffy. Poor Dawn! Did you
> >> notice last episode Joyce telling Buffy that she's so grown up?
> >> Though I don't think Joyce ever came up with anything as lame as
> >> someone being a bad influence because she's too short.
> >
> > Although Buffy does often sound lame when she's trying to improvise
> > a convincing-sounding lie.
>
> Yep, this has been a consistent element of Buffy's character since WTTH,
> when she says that the gym she burned down was "full of vam-- asbestos."
> Asbestos? Other examples include her saying in School Hard that the gym
> could have been burned down by mice (who were smoking), the angry puppy
> from Harsh Light of Day, and her attempt to go undercover in Anne. I
> should compile a list.
rewatching go fish where she literally wears a trenchcoat and dark glasses
Don Sample
chr...@removethistoreply.gwu.edu wrote:
> Arbitrar Of Quality <tsm...@wildmail.com> wrote:
> > A reminder: Please avoid spoilers for later episodes in these review
> > threads.
>
> >
> > BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER
> > Season Five, Episode 6: "Family"
> > (or "A little group it's always been/And always will, until the
> > end")
> > Before we answer that question, we have that rarest of creatures, a
> > fight against invisible enemies that's actually a decent action scene
> > and doesn't look too stupid. Liked Anya with the crystal ball, and
> > Spike's unseen and unappreciated contribution. He makes himself
> > pretty useful this week, but no ones about to give him a medal for it.
>
> But this raises the question of why Spike was invisible. A vampire is
> essentially a demon in a human body. If Tara thought that her spell would
> just hide her supposed demon side, only showing her human side, then why
> would it hide Spike's human body?
As is so often the case, the spell didn't work quite the way the caster
thought it would. The spell didn't just hide the demonic aspect (which
is what Tara wanted.) It made anything with a demonic aspect invisible,
including Spike. The actual proof that Tara wasn't part demon was that
her spell *didn't* hide her. Spike's little demo wasn't needed.
>
> > On the one hand, the story might've been more interesting had
> > Tara's father genuinely thought he was acting out of the world's
> > best interests. I like conflicts between right and right.
>
> Me too. In this case, though, Tara's father had to be at least a little
> rotten, to fit the Family theme. Regardless of what their DNA says, he is
> *not* treating Tara the way a true family member should.
Which is the point. Tara's true family is the Scoobies, not who she's
related to. (And real family can do much worse things to their members
than what Tara's father was doing to her.)
Rowan Hawthorn
> A reminder: Please avoid spoilers for later episodes in these review
> threads.
>
>
> BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER
> Season Five, Episode 6: "Family"
> (or "A little group it's always been/And always will, until the
> end")
> Director: Joss Whedon
>
> each other as prime-time TV will allow. Based on past precedent, this
> should mean that they'll break up in this episode, or have something
> else bad happen to them. Can we defy form? Stay tuned!
Is that a rhetorical question? This is Buffy, after all - next episode
we have the major fight and the heart-wrenching breakup whereupon Tara
runs out into the night and gets herself vam-- oh, wait, I wasn't
supposed to tell that, was I?
> No consideration of not showing up for the birthday or anything mean,
> but it's a favor to a friend rather than something they actually want
> to do. Willow's friends like Tara in theory, and are making some
> effort to welcome her into their group given how important it seems to
> Wil, but they simply don't know her or really "get" her. So how
> does that relate to the Slaypack allied to help her at the end? I'm
> going to take the stance that what matters is Willow: her family is
> their family, so Tara doesn't need to "prove" herself as cool to
> anyone else.
That's about right. And, giving credit where it's due, Buffy would
about as soon go to Tara's birthday party as her *own* by this time.
>
> I thought I was so clever classifying the Buffy/Spike fight as a dream
> the moment he threw his first punch, or kick, or whatever. But it
> turns out it's a *fantasy*, not a dream, making me feel less smart.
> You're a crafty bastard, Joss. You may have won this round, but
> there will be others.
Count on it.
> So our central plot thread involves Tara's dad and family showing up.
> We kinda know where the story's going after her instinctive "yes,
> sir," but I guess we do have to do the actual exposition. The story
> per se doesn't thrill me, except for the suddenness with which her
> cousin lashes out, but the episode is still effective because of the
> strength of the W/T scenes both here and throughout the last year. One
> thing I wasn't expecting was for her to go ahead and curse everyone
> - is she slipping into darkness? one wonders on first viewing.
>
> Before we answer that question, we have that rarest of creatures, a
> fight against invisible enemies that's actually a decent action scene
> and doesn't look too stupid.
Liked Buffy's locating the demons by listening for them. And her
intuitive reaction to the first attack.
> After Tara undoes her spell, the writing and acting of the aftermath
> are damn near flawless. I love pretty much everything here. As she
> should, she tries to fix things, apologizes loudly, and starts to
> explain her motivations immediately. It's quick, but it's played
> like she learned a lot from this mistake.
a) Tara *is* quick. She's painfully shy, and her demeanor sometimes
makes her come off as a little slow, but that's just an illusion.
b) It's not like she did the spell for *purely* selfish reasons, anyway.
Yeah, maybe in a sense, but it's understandable; remember, her brother
(who, by the way, is a dickless bastard,) is surprised to find her
hanging out with Scoobies, says it's more people than she *met* in high
school. So, she has a new love, a new group of friends, the Wicca group
where she has other people to share her interests for maybe the first
time ever, and here comes her "family" to tear it all down. Not
surprising she'd want to hide her "demon" self.
> Another nice touch is seeing
> how Tara was going to tell Willow and the others everything on her own,
> but her father is impatient to move the conversation along. From
> there, Hannigan absolutely nails Willow's mix of hurt and panic,
> doing amazing things with demeanor as well as dialogue. The line
> "was all that just a lie?" is kinda a trite and stupid thing to
> say, but I think that's part of the point - Willow's not quick
> with words at times like this, and really really needs to hear some
> reassurance.
IAWTP :-)
> Sometimes a little bit of sap gets to me, even though I try to keep up
> the relentless snark. Here the final montage at The Bronze is very
> nice. It's a triumph of little moments: think of the transition from
> "are you happy now?" to this sequence.
And Tara's wide, lopsided smile spreading across her face just cracks me up.
> Willow and Xander chatting
> and laughing like old times. The followup to the joke scene from the
> first act ("but it's still not funny"). Dawn giving Tara a
> broom, with a bow around it. And above all, the way the actors sell
> Willow and Tara being so incredibly happy. I think I was dangerously
> close to cracking a smile.
Call the paramedics! We have an emergency here. LOL! (Considering
AH's self-admitted "gutter mouth," I'd love to hear what NB said that
got that reaction from her...)
>
> This Is Really Stupid But I Laughed Anyway moment(s):
> - "You said you got a present already." "Yeah, that was a
> tangled web of lies, sweetie."
> - "A lot of young people nowadays are experimenting with shortness.
> Gotta nip that in the bud."
> - Dawn doing Buffy-style bluster
> - "You're dealing with all of us." "Except me." "Except
> Spike."
Giles: "You're in a magic shop, and you can't think what Tara would
like? I believe you're both profoundly stupid."
>
>
> So...
>
> One-sentence summary: Moving.
>
> AOQ rating: Excellent
Despite some of its shortcomings (the denouement comes a little
quickly,) I like this episode. I think Willow & Tara make a really cute
couple anyway, and in this episode Aly & Amber really hit the couple
thing out of the ballpark.
TARA: Every time I— even when I’m at my worst… you always make
me feel special. How do you do that?
WILLOW: Magick.
--
Rowan Hawthorn
"Occasionally, I'm callous and strange." - Willow Rosenberg, "Buffy the
Vampire Slayer"
Apteryx
news:1150140108.1...@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>A reminder: Please avoid spoilers for later episodes in these review
> threads.
>
>
> while talking about how nothing's wrong.
That does tie in well with the theme of the episode. When Buffy thought Dawn
was here real sister, she hated her. Now she knows she's not, but is stuck
with her anyway, she starts to react to her with something like new parental
love, and over protectiveness.
>
> Not glad to see the villain from last week back, but on the plus side
> she's only in a few short scenes.
But some good ones. How could you not like the "I need a favour" moment?
>I thought I was so clever classifying the Buffy/Spike fight as a dream
>the moment he threw his first punch, or kick, or whatever. But it
>turns out it's a *fantasy*, not a dream, making me feel less smart.
>You're a crafty bastard, Joss. You may have won this round, but
>there will be others.
And doing it while doing it with Harmony, and then telling Harmony he was
thinking about her. Still evil.
> So our central plot thread involves Tara's dad and family showing up.
Whedon and fathers. We know that's not going to end well.
>
> Before we answer that question, we have that rarest of creatures, a
> fight against invisible enemies that's actually a decent action scene
> and doesn't look too stupid. Liked Anya with the crystal ball, and
> Spike's unseen and unappreciated contribution. He makes himself
> pretty useful this week, but no ones about to give him a medal for it.
Well you can't get a medal if no one sees you. Which, as others have noted,
is odd, because he does have a human body.
> of our allegories.) On the other hand, the way in which it's
> revealed and played out is highly cool, especially the timing with
> which Spike hits her and recoils. Despite the awesomeness of the
> moment, I must nitpick and point out that allowing him to throw the
> punch at all before causing the pain is inconsistent with the way
> Spike's implant has worked in the past...
Sometimes its handy to have an evil thing around. Though it is odd that
Tara's family just accept what they are told about Spike not being able to
hit humans, but still able to hit demons. They must have been watching
earlier episodes. The "Spike test" does also offer an answer (of sorts) to
the issue I raised on the Untouched thread about distinguishing humans from
demons and its impact on Angel's shansu. Clearly Angel wants to be human so
that he can pummel Spike, and Spike won't be able to retaliate :)
> first act ("but it's still not funny"). Dawn giving Tara a
> broom, with a bow around it.
That one I liked.
>
> One-sentence summary: Moving.
>
> AOQ rating: Excellent
Not to me. To me there's a mixture of Good stuff and Weak stuff (mostly the
preachiness), averaging out to Decent. It's my 113th favourite BtVS episode,
15th favourite in season 5
--
Apteryx
George W Harris
:
:
:One Bit Shy wrote:
:
:> "Arbitrar Of Quality" <tsm...@wildmail.com> wrote in message
:> news:1150140108.1...@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
:>
:
:>
:>>Before we answer that question, we have that rarest of creatures, a
:>>fight against invisible enemies that's actually a decent action scene
:>>and doesn't look too stupid. Liked Anya with the crystal ball, and
:>>Spike's unseen and unappreciated contribution. He makes himself
:>>pretty useful this week, but no ones about to give him a medal for it.
:>
:>
:> He goes there to watch Buffy die and then voluntarily steps in to save her.
:> Yep, Spike is deep in it now.
:
:
:Did he really? I got the impression he was only putting on a show for
:Harmony.
Well, he starts out just watching, but then
he gets all exasperated (presumably at his need to
pitch in) before diving into the fray. If he were just
putting on a show for Harmony, he would have
dived right in from the start.
:Looked to me like he was off to make sure nothing bad happened to her.
Yeah, except for the not doing that at first part.
:
:Mel
--
"It is always a simple matter to drag people along whether it is a
democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist
dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the
bidding of the leaders. This is easy. All you have to do is tell them
they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of
patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in every
country."
-Hermann Goering
George W Harris
<rowan_h...@hotmail.com> wrote:
:That's about right. And, giving credit where it's due, Buffy would
:about as soon go to Tara's birthday party as her *own* by this time.
Sooner. Perhaps you aren't remembering
any of Buffy's previous birthday parties?
--
e^(i*pi)+1=0
Don Sample
Rowan Hawthorn <rowan_h...@hotmail.com> wrote:
Xander: ³What are we going to get her, some cheesy crystal ball?²
Giles: ³You bloody well better not. I¹ve got mine already wrapped.²
Don Sample
George W Harris <gha...@mundsprung.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 12 Jun 2006 22:24:45 -0400, Rowan Hawthorn
> <rowan_h...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> :That's about right. And, giving credit where it's due, Buffy would
> :about as soon go to Tara's birthday party as her *own* by this time.
>
> Sooner. Perhaps you aren't remembering
> any of Buffy's previous birthday parties?
Her nineteenth birthday was okay. Nothing bad happened. Giles didn't
enjoy the party much, but Buffy wasn't really noticing at the time. It
wasn't until a couple of days later that Giles got turned into a demon.
Apteryx
news:1150156672.9...@f6g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
Indeed, and Tara's not even a very experienced witch. It's pretty lucky that
no magic using villains have used this spell before. I'll bet that demon who
conjured himself a rod to split Buffy into her two sides wishes now he'd
gone with this spell.
--
Apteryx
ajs...@aol.com
The way the father worded things makes me wonder if poor Tara was
the result of inbreeding. Her mother had it, and the curse ran in his
family, maybe her eleventh toe was the proof of her demonic nature. :)
Also, they made it seem like Tara thought she was going to sprout
tentacles and slime any second now, so why wasn't she researching a
demon to human spell to "cure" herself?
It doesn't exactly give me warm fuzzy feelings that Tara resorted
to mind control spells to keep friends and girlfriend, but panicky
people do stupid things.
As for the chip activation, perhaps it didn't activate because
Spike didn't know if she was human or not, so perhaps the chip gave him
the benefit of the doubt until the deed was done? Frankly, if the
chip can read his mind and has supersenses superior to the host
vampires, then the initiative was using technomagic. Although Adam's
arm of extendable machine guns and missile launcher already leads me
there.
Rowan Hawthorn
> On Mon, 12 Jun 2006 22:24:45 -0400, Rowan Hawthorn
> <rowan_h...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> :That's about right. And, giving credit where it's due, Buffy would
> :about as soon go to Tara's birthday party as her *own* by this time.
>
> Sooner. Perhaps you aren't remembering
> any of Buffy's previous birthday parties?
Well, I was engaging in a little understatement. Maybe I got carried
away...
Rowan Hawthorn
> In article <V4qdnaY2ZveXvBPZ...@giganews.com>,
> Rowan Hawthorn <rowan_h...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Arbitrar Of Quality wrote:
>>> A reminder: Please avoid spoilers for later episodes in these review
>>> threads.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>> - "You said you got a present already." "Yeah, that was a
>>> tangled web of lies, sweetie."
>>> - "A lot of young people nowadays are experimenting with shortness.
>>> Gotta nip that in the bud."
>>> - Dawn doing Buffy-style bluster
>>> - "You're dealing with all of us." "Except me." "Except
>>> Spike."
>> Giles: "You're in a magic shop, and you can't think what Tara would
>> like? I believe you're both profoundly stupid."
>
> Xander: ³What are we going to get her, some cheesy crystal ball?²
> Giles: ³You bloody well better not. I¹ve got mine already wrapped.²
>
LOL! Reminds me of my brother and me trying to coordinate gifts at
Christmas...
One Bit Shy
news:LbOdnRfDO4X5hBPZ...@uci.net...
I don't doubt that part of his inner reaction to the news was fear for the
Slayer. But he's also mad at her and what she's done to him and is still
struggling to face what's happened to him. Conflicted would be the word.
Perhaps a little less so now that he couldn't resist helping her. Or
perhaps not. Stay tuned...
OBS
(Harmony) Watcher
"Don Sample" <dsa...@synapse.net> wrote in message
news:dsample-60D607...@news.giganews.com...
solved the problem of scientifically detecting a human soul.</fanfic> That
would also explain why I hadn't for one microsecond believed that the
Initiative had truly disbanded. Whatever it is now called and whereever it
is now located, it's probably focussing on military applications of this
technology.
==Harmony Watcher==
mariposas rand mair fheal greykitten tomys des anges
> solved the problem of scientifically detecting a human soul.</fanfic> That
what? you mean youre expecting us to believe some fantasy about magic chips
in a series with werewolves vampires and thousand year old vengeance demons?
> would also explain why I hadn't for one microsecond believed that the
> Initiative had truly disbanded. Whatever it is now called and whereever it
> is now located, it's probably focussing on military applications of this
> technology.
the initiative was a particular program to combine man machine and demon
into a universal soldier
that particular program was proven unfeasible and terminated
doesnt mean the government isnt dealing with
the other worldly menance elseways
i doubt the cia stopped giving a home to invisible boys and girls
Paul Hyett
>>Whatever Tara THOUGHT the spell would do, what it
>> did was render all demons invisible to the Scoobies. Which, when you
>> think about it, makes that spell extremely dangerous to anyone it's
>> used on. This is not a spell one uses on your friends in this
>> particular Jossverse.
>
>Indeed, and Tara's not even a very experienced witch.
Not so. In S4 we find out that she's been practising magic for far
longer than Willow,
--
Paul 'Charts Fan' Hyett
BTR1701
"ajs...@aol.com" <ajs...@aol.com> wrote:
> Okay my reactions to this episode:
>
> The way the father worded things makes me wonder if poor Tara was
> the result of inbreeding. Her mother had it, and the curse ran in his
> family, maybe her eleventh toe was the proof of her demonic nature. :)
>
> Also, they made it seem like Tara thought she was going to sprout
> tentacles and slime any second now, so why wasn't she researching a
> demon to human spell to "cure" herself?
>
> It doesn't exactly give me warm fuzzy feelings that Tara resorted
> to mind control spells to keep friends and girlfriend, but panicky
> people do stupid things.
Jung obguref zr vf gung jura Jvyybj qbrf gur fnzr guvat yngre va gurve
eryngvbafuvc, fur npgf yvxr vg'f gur hygvzngr orgenlny naq vzzrqvngryl
oernxf hc jvgu ure. Frrzf yvxr fur'q unir orra n yvggyr zber sbetvivat,
univat arneyl xvyyrq rirelbar ol qbvat fhpu guvatf urefrys.
> As for the chip activation, perhaps it didn't activate because
> Spike didn't know if she was human or not, so perhaps the chip gave him
> the benefit of the doubt until the deed was done?
Or perhaps this whole chip thing is one of the stupidest plot devices
the writers ever came up with and should have just quietly been ignored
or disposed of at the earliest possible convenience.
Elisi
> I'm of mixed feelings about having the demon thing be a superstition
> designed to keep the wimmin-folk in line or whatever. And that's
> ignoring the fact that I don't really know how such a thing would
> continue to work after everyone saw her visibly failing to become a
> demon.
OK, I'm in a hurry and haven't had time to read the threads. So someone
else might have pointed this out already. But basically it all follows
the same pattern as Doyle (from 'The Bachelor Party'):
Angel: "You shouldn't blame yourself. I mean, you were kids. It's
only natural.."
Doyle: "What, the sneeze and sprout demon face? That's decidedly
*un*natural, my friend."
Angel: "What, you didn't tell her before you got married?"
Doyle: "I didn't know. I never met my dad. He was the demon. And my
mom, well, she figured she'd wait to see if I'd got his genes before
she got all confessional."
Angel: "So your demon self didn't present.."
Doyle: "Until I was 21.
<snip>
He didn't show any demon-y traits until that sneeze... so it would be
logical to assume that Tara wouldn't suddenly sprout a tail on the
stroke of midnight.
Still, the family obviously did their research...
vague disclaimer
BTR1701 <btr...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> > It doesn't exactly give me warm fuzzy feelings that Tara resorted
> > to mind control spells to keep friends and girlfriend, but panicky
> > people do stupid things.
>
> Jung obguref zr vf gung jura Jvyybj qbrf gur fnzr guvat yngre va gurve
> eryngvbafuvc, fur npgf yvxr vg'f gur hygvzngr orgenlny naq vzzrqvngryl
> oernxf hc jvgu ure.
Ab fur qvqa'g.
> Frrzf yvxr fur'q unir orra n yvggyr zber sbetvivat,
> univat arneyl xvyyrq rirelbar ol qbvat fhpu guvatf urefrys.
Bapr ohfgrq, Gnen jnf ragveryl jvyyvat gb gnxr gur pbafrdhraprf.
Bapr ohfgrq, Jvyybj nyzbfg vzzrqvngryl qvq gur fnzr guvat, ba n zhpu
ynetre fpnyr. Gung'f jung pnhfrq gur oernx-hc (cyhf vg jnf nsgre jrrxf
bs jneavat Jvyybj nobhg ure hfr bs zntvp trarenyyl).
--
Wikipedia: like Usenet, moderated by trolls
(Harmony) Watcher
> In article <128ru9r...@corp.supernews.com>,
> chr...@removethistoreply.gwu.edu wrote:
>
> > Arbitrar Of Quality <tsm...@wildmail.com> wrote:
> > > A reminder: Please avoid spoilers for later episodes in these review
> > > threads.
> >
> > >
> > > BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER
> > > Season Five, Episode 6: "Family"
> > > (or "A little group it's always been/And always will, until the
> > > end")
>
> > > Before we answer that question, we have that rarest of creatures, a
> > > fight against invisible enemies that's actually a decent action scene
> > > and doesn't look too stupid. Liked Anya with the crystal ball, and
> > > Spike's unseen and unappreciated contribution. He makes himself
> > > pretty useful this week, but no ones about to give him a medal for it.
> >
> > But this raises the question of why Spike was invisible. A vampire is
> > essentially a demon in a human body. If Tara thought that her spell
would
> > just hide her supposed demon side, only showing her human side, then why
> > would it hide Spike's human body?
>
> As is so often the case, the spell didn't work quite the way the caster
> thought it would. The spell didn't just hide the demonic aspect (which
> is what Tara wanted.) It made anything with a demonic aspect invisible,
> including Spike. The actual proof that Tara wasn't part demon was that
> her spell *didn't* hide her. Spike's little demo wasn't needed.
>
Agreed. But from the POV of the other Scoobies, Spike's demo was quick,
to-the-point and probably more convincing. I'm assuming here that unless one
was a highly skilled witch, one might have some doubts wondering if Tara
hadn't cast a tailor-made spell which would have no effect on her own self
even if she were part demon.
==Harmony Watcher==
(Harmony) Watcher
"BTR1701" <btr...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:btr1702-6EF44B...@news.giganews.com...
> In article <1150166556....@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com>,
> "ajs...@aol.com" <ajs...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> > Okay my reactions to this episode:
> >
> > The way the father worded things makes me wonder if poor Tara was
> > the result of inbreeding. Her mother had it, and the curse ran in his
> > family, maybe her eleventh toe was the proof of her demonic nature. :)
> >
> > Also, they made it seem like Tara thought she was going to sprout
> > tentacles and slime any second now, so why wasn't she researching a
> > demon to human spell to "cure" herself?
> >
> > It doesn't exactly give me warm fuzzy feelings that Tara resorted
> > to mind control spells to keep friends and girlfriend, but panicky
> > people do stupid things.
>
> Jung obguref zr vf gung jura Jvyybj qbrf gur fnzr guvat yngre va gurve
> eryngvbafuvc, fur npgf yvxr vg'f gur hygvzngr orgenlny naq vzzrqvngryl
> oernxf hc jvgu ure. Frrzf yvxr fur'q unir orra n yvggyr zber sbetvivat,
> univat arneyl xvyyrq rirelbar ol qbvat fhpu guvatf urefrys.
>
ol WYO. Ner lbh fher lbh jnag hf gb erunfu guvf ntnva?
<rest snipped>
==Harmony Watcher==
George W Harris
wrote:
:> Before we answer that question, we have that rarest of creatures, a
:> fight against invisible enemies that's actually a decent action scene
:> and doesn't look too stupid. Liked Anya with the crystal ball, and
:> Spike's unseen and unappreciated contribution. He makes himself
:> pretty useful this week, but no ones about to give him a medal for it.
:
:Well you can't get a medal if no one sees you. Which, as others have noted,
:is odd, because he does have a human body.
I can't fathom why anyone thinks it's odd. Sure, it
used to be a human body, but it's a demon *now*! Why
aren't these people getting their knickers in a twist over
there being no body left after a freshly-risen vamp is
staked? He's a demon, the spell hides him. This isn't a
difficult point.
And, it's not mind control, it's an illusion. "Hah!
I'm controlling your mind to make you see this pencil
floating in the air!" Geez, some people.
--
Doesn't the fact that there are *exactly* 50 states seem a little suspicious?
kenm47
EGK wrote:
> On 12 Jun 2006 12:21:48 -0700, "Arbitrar Of Quality" <tsm...@wildmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>
> >One-sentence summary: Moving.
> >
> >AOQ rating: Excellent
> >
> >1) "Buffy Vs. Dracula" - Good
> >2) "Real Me" - Decent
> >3) "The Replacement" - Good
> >4) "Out Of My Mind" - Weak
> >5) "No Place Like Home" - Decent
> >6) "Family" - Excellent]
>
>
> I long ago gave up trying to predict your reviews. I find you to be all
> over the map.
>
> I always thought Family was one of the worst episodes of the series because
> of the cliches and preachiness involved. I Definitely thought it was one of
> the worst pieces of writing from Joss Whedon. It would have made a good
> Afternoon Special.
>
> I remember how the analogy of witchcraft to lesbianism had me groaning out
> loud and rolling my eyes at one point. It was when Tara's father is in her
> apartment and admonishes her for leaving her "toys" right out where he could
> find them.
> --
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
I haven't had a chance to rewatch this ep, but IIRC I agree with a lot
of the sentiment of this post. Plus more father hating from Joss and
company.
BUT, even still I found it Decent enough. No way "excellent." I liked
the last scene. I'm a sucker for "true love" of any kind. I also liked
Buffy whomping on the invisible demons.
Ken (Brooklyn)
(Harmony) Watcher
news:w-mdnVHYD-CschDZ...@rcn.net...
> "One Bit Shy" <O...@nomail.sorry> wrote in
> news:128rpil...@news.supernews.com:
>
> > "Arbitrar Of Quality" <tsm...@wildmail.com> wrote in message
> > news:1150140108.1...@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> >
> >> BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER
> >> Season Five, Episode 6: "Family"
> >
> >> like Joyce during The High School Years than she'd probably
> >> care to admit.
> >
> > Yeah, what a fate for Buffy. Poor Buffy. Poor Dawn! Did you
> > notice last episode Joyce telling Buffy that she's so grown up?
> > Though I don't think Joyce ever came up with anything as lame as
> > someone being a bad influence because she's too short.
>
> a convincing-sounding lie.
> >
> >> of an impression on me before -
> >> Blucas does a good job with what he's given this week. The
> >> I'm-giving-you-a-chance-here "you tell me" conversation is
> >> followed by a bit of quiet disappointment at Buffy pushing him
> >> out of her life the way he fears. Worked for me. He's
> >> understated without being so boring while drinking in Willy's
> >> Place, pondering Buffy things and maybe contemplating how many
> >> of his old opinions and prejudices he's kept and how many he's
> >> gotten rid of.
> >
> > It's so sad. With the super strength gone and Riley seeming to
> > have mostly set aside his Angel jealousy, and with Buffy
> > agreeing to Riley's proposition last episode that they take care
> > of each other, there appeared to be for a moment an opportunity
> > to improve their relationship. I don't think Buffy truly saw
> > all of Riley's issues when she agreed, but I think she saw some
> > of it and was sincere then. But, alas, then the Dawn thing
> > happened, and here's the slayer gig getting in the way again.
> >
> > Should she have told Riley about Dawn? Secrets, after all, have
> > caused Buffy a lot of trouble in the past. But I think a very
> > good case can be made for this one - at least for now. She
> > doesn't know how to defend Dawn at the moment. The best defense
> > right now is that Dawn's status is a secret. It's interesting
> > that she confided in Giles, though - and not Riley. That may
> > say something about Riley's status. Where he ranks as
> > confidant. Or perhaps Giles watcher status trumps such concerns
> > for a matter like Dawn.
>
> could consider it a sign of progress that she even told Giles.
>
> Note that she has NOT told either Willow or Xander about Dawn.
> Riley isn't the only one she's keeping this secret from, although I
> suspect he may think he is. Which, of course, makes things worse.
> >
> >
> >> Before we answer that question, we have that rarest of
> >> creatures, a fight against invisible enemies that's actually a
> >> decent action scene and doesn't look too stupid. Liked Anya
> >> with the crystal ball, and Spike's unseen and unappreciated
> >> contribution. He makes himself pretty useful this week, but no
> >> ones about to give him a medal for it.
> >
> > to save her. Yep, Spike is deep in it now.
>
> himself to admit it beforehand.
>
> >
> >
> >> What's funny is that Mrs. Quality's reaction to
> >> Buffy's "you gotta come through me" was sarcasm about never
> >> having seen that coming. But I actually wasn't sure until she
> >> said it - Buffy can be pretty unforgiving. Shouldn't have
> >> doubted her here, though; must be slipping in my old age.
> >
> > It probably helped that SMG really sold it. The way she started
> > that speech, you had to think maybe Tara was toast.
> >
>
> I seem to also recall Willow initially looking like SHE was afraid
> Buffy was going to let the Maclay's take Tara.
>
>
And one can re-watch those scenes here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0NeD8OuvgLk
(Not chipmunks.)
==Harmony Watcher==
kenm47
PS: Two other ME "lessons" form this one:
1) Be careful what you wish for (a la BB&B, or The Wish or even Who Are
You?) because ME will NEVER grant those wishes, and
2) NO ONE should ever mess with how others perceive the world.
Ken (Brooklyn)
(Harmony) Watcher
"Arbitrar Of Quality" <tsm...@wildmail.com> wrote in message
news:1150148429.7...@y43g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
>
> EGK wrote:
>
> > I always thought Family was one of the worst episodes of the series
because
> > of the cliches and preachiness involved. I Definitely thought it was
one of
> > the worst pieces of writing from Joss Whedon. It would have made a good
> > Afternoon Special.
>
> one of the series's stronger metaphors. But I think it's a minor
> enough complaint not to hurt the episode much. That stuff is pushed
> enough into the background, so although intolerance is the driving
> force behind "Family," it's not the focus; the focus is on how Tara and
> the others will react, which is a strong emotional story.
>
>
It's clearly more than just a shot at intolerance on the part of Tara's
biological family against witchcraft and lesbianism. It's also a shot at how
some patriarchies are still using all sorts of excuses to dominate over
their female members. Such dominance rarely fails when people are corrupted
with the right kind of belief systems (even cousin Beth believed in her
family myth).
In addition, it also showed that Buffy had an overflowing abundance of
non-racist cells in her (demon races vs the human race); she stood up to
Tara's father even before she knew that Tara was not a demon.
Its anti-racist and anti-sexist stance are unmistakable. And the level of
preachiness was done just right to my tastes. In my views, it's one of the
most meaningful episodes of BtVS. One can re-watch some clips of this
excellent episode at:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0NeD8OuvgLk or |>www.pukkie.net<|.
==Harmony Watcher==
Espen Schjønberg
> On 12 Jun 2006 14:36:56 -0700, "Arbitrar Of Quality"
> <tsm...@wildmail.com> wrote:
>
> :mariposas rand mair fheal greykitten tomys des anges wrote:
> :
> :> in case you missed it the brunette vampire vamp at the bar
> :> is the same blonde -sandy- that vampwillow killed in doppelgangland
> :
> :Didn't notice that. Cool.
>
> There's no real reason you should. Her
> reappearance is an example of what is sometimes
> called continuity porn, although when exactly she
> got turned is something of a mystery (in
> Doppelgangland she was pretty much just killed).
It's pretty obvious she just fainted. If she had been killed, she could
never have been turned.
It's the only logical explanation.
It's that, or a retcon. But retcons are bad.
--
Espen
Don Sample
> In article <1150166556....@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com>,
> "ajs...@aol.com" <ajs...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> > Okay my reactions to this episode:
> >
> > The way the father worded things makes me wonder if poor Tara was
> > the result of inbreeding. Her mother had it, and the curse ran in his
> > family, maybe her eleventh toe was the proof of her demonic nature. :)
> >
> > Also, they made it seem like Tara thought she was going to sprout
> > tentacles and slime any second now, so why wasn't she researching a
> > demon to human spell to "cure" herself?
> >
> > It doesn't exactly give me warm fuzzy feelings that Tara resorted
> > to mind control spells to keep friends and girlfriend, but panicky
> > people do stupid things.
>
> Jung obguref zr vf gung jura Jvyybj qbrf gur fnzr guvat yngre va gurve
> eryngvbafuvc, fur npgf yvxr vg'f gur hygvzngr orgenlny naq vzzrqvngryl
> oernxf hc jvgu ure. Frrzf yvxr fur'q unir orra n yvggyr zber sbetvivat,
> univat arneyl xvyyrq rirelbar ol qbvat fhpu guvatf urefrys.
Gnen arire pnfgf nal fcryyf gb zbqvsl crbcyr'f zrzbevrf. Fur pnfg n
tynzbhe, gb uvqr jung fur gubhtug jbhyq or na nfcrpg bs ure nccrnenapr.
Yvxr Jvyybj hfvat zntvp gb uvqr n mvg.
Jvyybj punatrf Gnen'f zrzbel, trgf pnhtug, cebzvfrf abg gb qb vg ntnva,
naq vzzrqvngryl gheaf nebhaq naq gevrf gb pnfg gur fnzr fcryy, gb pbire
hc gung fur'q orra pnhtug. Vg jnfa'g gur zntvp gung znqr Gnen yrnir.
Vg jnf Jvyybj ylvat gb ure nobhg vg.
One Bit Shy
news:j1zjg.17154$iF6.10698@pd7tw2no...
>
> "Arbitrar Of Quality" <tsm...@wildmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1150148429.7...@y43g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
>>
>> EGK wrote:
>>
>> > I always thought Family was one of the worst episodes of the series
> because
>> > of the cliches and preachiness involved. I Definitely thought it was
> one of
>> > the worst pieces of writing from Joss Whedon. It would have made a
>> > good
>> > Afternoon Special.
>>
>> I don't actually disagree about the preachiness factor, and it's not
>> one of the series's stronger metaphors. But I think it's a minor
>> enough complaint not to hurt the episode much. That stuff is pushed
>> enough into the background, so although intolerance is the driving
>> force behind "Family," it's not the focus; the focus is on how Tara and
>> the others will react, which is a strong emotional story.
>>
>>
> It's clearly more than just a shot at intolerance on the part of Tara's
> biological family against witchcraft and lesbianism. It's also a shot at
> how
> some patriarchies are still using all sorts of excuses to dominate over
> their female members. Such dominance rarely fails when people are
> corrupted
> with the right kind of belief systems (even cousin Beth believed in her
> family myth).
I've never been keen on emphasizing the lesbian aspect too much because
there seems to be so much more in the episode. Such as the patriarchal
message that moves way beyond a lesbian metaphor.
> In addition, it also showed that Buffy had an overflowing abundance of
> non-racist cells in her (demon races vs the human race); she stood up to
> Tara's father even before she knew that Tara was not a demon.
Which goes, I think, to a broader series theme that really starts coming
clear in this episode. Stubbornly tying people to some kind of innate
quality they are supposed to be born with and forever have only denies them
the ability and right to establish their own self worth. Willow's closing
message that it's not where Tara came from but what she became that counts.
That can be applied to sexual orientation, race (or demon-ness) or family.
Look closely and you can see that the same idea applies to Xander escaping
his basement and Anya seeking humanity and Buffy herself seeking more than
just being slayer.
I suspect the broad theme is why Joss wrote this episode. Everybody can be
a hero if they choose.
OBS
kenm47
One Bit Shy wrote:
> "(Harmony) Watcher" <nob...@nonesuch.com> wrote in message
> news:j1zjg.17154$iF6.10698@pd7tw2no...
> >
<SNIP>
>
> Which goes, I think, to a broader series theme that really starts coming
> clear in this episode. Stubbornly tying people to some kind of innate
> quality they are supposed to be born with and forever have only denies them
> the ability and right to establish their own self worth. Willow's closing
> message that it's not where Tara came from but what she became that counts.
> That can be applied to sexual orientation, race (or demon-ness) or family.
> Look closely and you can see that the same idea applies to Xander escaping
> his basement and Anya seeking humanity and Buffy herself seeking more than
> just being slayer.
>
> I suspect the broad theme is why Joss wrote this episode. Everybody can be
> a hero if they choose.
>
>
> OBS
So you're saying homosexuality IS a life choice and not dictated by how
one is wired to begin with? I don't think that's the intended message.
Ken (Brooklyn)
One Bit Shy
news:1150216856.9...@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com...
No, and I didn't mean to suggest that it was. Nor that being black is. Or
that being born to your blood family is.
The idea instead is that you mustn't be tied to the strictures assigned to
you by others by virtue of being in whatever class it is.
OBS
peachy ashie passion
> That's a good post; don't let the fact that I don't really have
> anything to add to it suggest otherwise.
>
> -AOQ
>
*grin*
Since you've snipped all of it, and we have no idea which post you
mean, I'm going to pick one.
EGK
dammit. He replied to mine or I'd say that was it for sure. :)
--
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"There would be a lot more civility in this world if people
didn't take that as an invitation to walk all over you"
(Calvin and Hobbes)
lili...@gmail.com
> >
> >> Before we answer that question, we have that rarest of
> >> creatures, a fight against invisible enemies that's actually a
> >> decent action scene and doesn't look too stupid. Liked Anya
> >> with the crystal ball, and Spike's unseen and unappreciated
> >> contribution. He makes himself pretty useful this week, but no
> >> ones about to give him a medal for it.
> >
> > He goes there to watch Buffy die and then voluntarily steps in
> > to save her. Yep, Spike is deep in it now.
>
> I tend to think he went to help Buffy but couldn't quite bring
> himself to admit it beforehand.
>
>
I have to say that much as I love Spike, I don't think he initially
went in to help Buffy. At this point even he's still trying to fight
his feelings. Only when he saw her in trouble, he just couldn't 'not'
do something. So he jumped in. *g*
Lore
lili...@gmail.com
>
> > would also explain why I hadn't for one microsecond believed that the
> > Initiative had truly disbanded. Whatever it is now called and whereever it
> > is now located, it's probably focussing on military applications of this
> > technology.
>
> the initiative was a particular program to combine man machine and demon
> into a universal soldier
>
> that particular program was proven unfeasible and terminated
>
> doesnt mean the government isnt dealing with
> the other worldly menance elseways
>
> i doubt the cia stopped giving a home to invisible boys and girls
>
Jryy V qba'g xabj, ohg... gur Vavgvngvir unf orra nggrzcgvat gb svaq n
jnl gb pbageby qrzbaf naq fcrpvsvpnyyl inzcverf fvapr ng yrnfg gur
sbhegvrf. V qbhog fbzrguvat yvxr guvf jbhyq fgbc gurz sberire*t*
Lore
lili...@gmail.com
>
> It hurts him if he tries to hurt a human, but not
> if he tries to hurt a demon. How does the chip
> distinguish? We don't know, but at least in
> part it seems to react to Spike's intentions. If
> he is doing "good" by hitting a demon, no chip
> firing. If he is doing evil, by hitting a human,
> the chip fires. Here he was doing good by showing
> whether Tara was a human or a demon, and it was not
> until the chip somehow identified Tara as human that
> it fired. Also he didn't hit her very hard, and the
> chip reacts more strongly to greater violence.
>
> Eric.
> --
I think that it's not the chip that senses the difference between
humans and demons, it's part of the vampire themselves that they can
distinguish the difference.
(Yvxr ubj Qneyn pbhyq fzryy gur fbhy va Natry.)
That combined with his brain recognize the urge of wanting to
feed/cause harm causes the chip to activate. Long as he doesn't intend
to harm someone, or keeps his anger under control, he can do what he
wants.
At least it's how I make sense of it, only way to explain why Spike's
chip would go off when he tries to aim an unarmed gun at Xander in 'the
Yoko Factor'.
Lore
lili...@gmail.com
Apteryx wrote:
> <jil...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1150156672.9...@f6g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> >
> > chr...@removethistoreply.gwu.edu wrote:
> >> But this raises the question of why Spike was invisible. A vampire is
> >> essentially a demon in a human body. If Tara thought that her spell
> >> would
> >> just hide her supposed demon side, only showing her human side, then why
> >> would it hide Spike's human body?
> >
> > blood in those bodies is demonic, hence it can be used to create others
> > of the same kind. Whatever Tara THOUGHT the spell would do, what it
> > did was render all demons invisible to the Scoobies. Which, when you
> > think about it, makes that spell extremely dangerous to anyone it's
> > used on. This is not a spell one uses on your friends in this
> > particular Jossverse.
>
> no magic using villains have used this spell before. I'll bet that demon who
> conjured himself a rod to split Buffy into her two sides wishes now he'd
> gone with this spell.
>
> --
> Apteryx
Znxrf zr jbaqre vs gurl jbhyq fgvyy or noyr gb frr Ohssl, vs fbzrbar
hfrq guvf fcryy ba ure va f6
mariposas rand mair fheal greykitten tomys des anges
> humans and demons, it's part of the vampire themselves that they can
> distinguish the difference.
assuming the existence of vampires and werewolves and sver oernguvat qentbaf
or that you can reanimate dead flesh from bits of humans and demons
or that prognistication demons exist
i dont have a problem assuming the existence of a chip
that can distinguish demon and human
thats the least of my concerns
magical rites where the output energy exceeds the input energy
thats where i have a problem
lili...@gmail.com
> >
> > It doesn't exactly give me warm fuzzy feelings that Tara resorted
> > to mind control spells to keep friends and girlfriend, but panicky
> > people do stupid things.
>
> Jung obguref zr vf gung jura Jvyybj qbrf gur fnzr guvat yngre va gurve
> eryngvbafuvc, fur npgf yvxr vg'f gur hygvzngr orgenlny naq vzzrqvngryl
> oernxf hc jvgu ure. Frrzf yvxr fur'q unir orra n yvggyr zber sbetvivat,
> univat arneyl xvyyrq rirelbar ol qbvat fhpu guvatf urefrys.
>
Npghnyyl V jbhqya'g rira fgneg pbzcnevat gur gjb.
Jung Jvyybj qvq jnf encr, zber npphengryl pbzcnerq gb hfvat ebculaby gb
trg n tvey gb fyrrc jvgu lbh.
Gnen cebonoyl gubhtug gur fcryy jbhyq whfg pnhfr fbzr xvaq bs
vagresrerapr gung jbhyq uvqr ure qrzba fvqr sebz fvtug. Xvaqn yvxr gung
fcryy Jvyybj qvq va f4 gb xrrc gur Vavgvngvir sebz sbyybjvat gur
genpxre gurl fubg ng Fcvxr.
Abg gb zragvba, Jvyybj'f zvaqencr bs Gnen, naq rira nsgre Gnen gbyq ure
ubj fur sryg nobhg vg, bs Ohssl naq gur bguref jnf znqr rira jbefr
orpnhfr fur xarj ubj uheg Gnen unq orra ol jung unccrarq jvgu Tybel.
> > As for the chip activation, perhaps it didn't activate because
> > Spike didn't know if she was human or not, so perhaps the chip gave him
> > the benefit of the doubt until the deed was done?
>
> Or perhaps this whole chip thing is one of the stupidest plot devices
> the writers ever came up with and should have just quietly been ignored
> or disposed of at the earliest possible convenience.
Or maybe it's the best thing they ever came up with and since they did
so little explaining about it, they could use it whatever way they
wanted to.*g*
Lore
lili...@gmail.com
>
> assuming the existence of vampires and werewolves and sver oernguvat qentbaf
> or that you can reanimate dead flesh from bits of humans and demons
> or that prognistication demons exist
>
> i dont have a problem assuming the existence of a chip
> that can distinguish demon and human
>
> thats the least of my concerns
>
>
Not disagreeing, just overthinking due to actually liking the chip
storyline.*g*
I just love the whole idea of it and how it can be used, especially in
fanfic*eg*
Lore
Apteryx
news:yvuWdOKZ...@blueyonder.co.uk...
That goes to how long she has been practising (and far longer than Willow
isn't necessarily that long), not how experienced she is. Assuming that with
witchcraft as with other skills, one gains experience by practice rather
than passage of time since one first took up the skill. I think this is the
first spell we see her cast on her own, and she appears to have been
overtaken by Willow, and yet Willow doesn't seem to be at the level of
Catherine or even Amy.
--
Apteryx
Arbitrar Of Quality
The one that it was a response to would probably be a good guess.
If that doesn't help...
Ah yes, Family. It's not one of the major classics like Innocence or
Hush, but I really like it. Like all the Joss-written, Joss-directed
episodes, it's chock-full of great moments, some big and some
blink-and-you'll-miss-it subtle, and all the main cast members are at
the
top of their game. (So is Amber Benson -- technically she wasn't a
main
cast member yet, but she really should have been.)
There's a pretty clear lesbianism-magic parallel going on here, but
Family's most important theme is something more basic and universal.
Was
it in the Firefly DVD commentaries that Joss said all his shows are
about
created family? Well, Family is one of the clearest and purest
examples
of this theme in his whole body of work. Talking about a show's
message
always makes me wince, but Family does have a message: the people who
love
you and care for you are your *real* family, whether or not they're the
people connected to you by blood or marriage. Traditionally you're
supposed to love your family; Joss would respond that it's love that
makes
the family, not the other way around.
(BTW, Tara's family have no idea she's gay, do they?)
> I like some of the little details during the moving scene; the
> wrestling amused me for some reason, especially since Xander seemed to
> be winning.
I liked Xander and Riley's roughhousing in this scene, along with the
mock
insults (the supposed Latin name-calling, "Then how come Xander didn't
laugh?"). Perhaps they're both feeling the relative lack of male
companionship? Riley in particular is probably missing the kind of
macho
friendship he had with Forrest and Graham.
> The family theme gets firmly entrenched very early, with
> the only question being how Tara will fit in. Her joke that no one
> laughs at is a good way to say a lot without actually spending huge
> chunks of screen time on it.
Right before that joke, notice Tara's smile as she watches the others
bantering and roughhousing. She's really happy to be part of the group
(even if a very quiet part). At last she's getting a taste of the kind
of
companionship that, as we soon learn, she never got from her biological
family. This, of course, makes the embarrassment from her failed joke
all
the more painful, instantly turning her fearful that she doesn't fit in
with the group after all.
> strength of the W/T scenes both here and throughout the last year. One
> thing I wasn't expecting was for her to go ahead and curse everyone
> - is she slipping into darkness? one wonders on first viewing.
And you remember the demon locating spell Tara sabotaged last year,
right?
Now Willow suggests trying the spell again, and Tara not only says no
but
begs off the Scooby meeting, hurting Willow's feelings in the process.
At this point we have to wonder if Tara really is the woman we thought
we
knew. Maybe her father's curse story will turn out to be
self-fulfilling.
> Before we answer that question, we have that rarest of creatures, a
> fight against invisible enemies that's actually a decent action scene
> and doesn't look too stupid. Liked Anya with the crystal ball, and
> Spike's unseen and unappreciated contribution. He makes himself
> pretty useful this week, but no ones about to give him a medal for it.
But this raises the question of why Spike was invisible. A vampire is
essentially a demon in a human body. If Tara thought that her spell
would
just hide her supposed demon side, only showing her human side, then
why
would it hide Spike's human body?
While I'm at it, two other problems I have with Family. I don't like
the
demons' makeup: to me it looks less like suppurating sores and more
like
Insane Clown Posse. And Harmony's vapid chatter was a little too broad
for me this time.
> On the one hand, the story might've been more interesting had
> Tara's father genuinely thought he was acting out of the world's
> best interests. I like conflicts between right and right.
Me too. In this case, though, Tara's father had to be at least a
little
rotten, to fit the Family theme. Regardless of what their DNA says, he
is
*not* treating Tara the way a true family member should.
> of our allegories.) On the other hand, the way in which it's
> revealed and played out is highly cool, especially the timing with
> which Spike hits her and recoils.
And once again, evil Spike is the first one to figure someone out.
I'll just Me Too your comments about the final Magic Shop scene. Very
well acted, with special praise for AH.
> Sometimes a little bit of sap gets to me, even though I try to keep up
> the relentless snark. Here the final montage at The Bronze is very
> nice. It's a triumph of little moments: think of the transition from
> "are you happy now?" to this sequence.
The sap here (like in the last scene of The Prom) is allowable. The
show
has earned it. I love it all, from Xander and Willow cracking up at
some
unheard joke to Riley's sudden appearance to the final "awwww" moment.
The gang lives through so much terror and misery, it's nice for us to
see
them enjoying a night of unambiguous happiness. I don't think it's a
spoiler to say that this won't be happening every episode....
A couple of random little touches that I liked:
-Willow's look of expectation as she waits for Tara to introduce her to
her family, and her quiet disappointment when she's just lumped in with
the other unnamed friends.
-The beginning of the bar scene, when we don't see who the bartender is
talking to. Surely it's Spike? Nope, it's Captain America, hanging
out
at the demon bar.
-Spike's excitement at hearing that the demons are going to kill Buffy.
He knows he has to be there, but deep down inside he's not sure which
side
he's going to root for.
-The transition between Spike's fantasy and reality. Fantasy Buffy:
"I'm
coming right--" Harmony: "Now!" (Though maybe this belongs in the
TIRSBILA section.)
-Tara's semi-autobiographical kitty story
-Willow's comment that families "make you crazy." Doubly true in
Tara's
case, because not only has her biological family made her miserable,
but
her desperation to keep her new family will lead her to do something
really bad.
> This Is Really Stupid But I Laughed Anyway moment(s):
Here are some of my favorite funny lines, stupid or not:
-"There's nothing like getting your ass kicked to make your ass hurt."
-"This earns you a big reward. There could be outfits."
-"You're in a magic shop, and you can't think what Tara would like. I
believe you're both profoundly stupid."
-"Yeah, we're building a race of frog people. It's a good time."
-"You have the cutest suppurating sores!"
I've grown to love this episode, but it was mostly just confusing when
I
saw the original airing. This was because -- shameful confession -- I
wasn't yet a regular viewer. I had seen a couple of episodes from
season
1 and 2, but I had no idea who Tara was (let alone Anya and Dawn), so
much
of the impact was lost. And I was also a bit distracted while
watching,
because it happened to air on the night of the 2000 Presidential
election.
But after numerous repeat viewings thanks to reruns, Internet piracy
and
DVDs, Family has become one of my very favorite Buffy episodes.
> AOQ rating: Excellent
I'll agree with that. It's a small, overlooked gem.
--Chris
Happy?
-AOQ
Michael Ikeda
news:lyxjg.16218$iF6.6883@pd7tw2no:
> "Michael Ikeda" <mmi...@erols.com> wrote in message
> news:w-mdnVHYD-CschDZ...@rcn.net...
>> "One Bit Shy" <O...@nomail.sorry> wrote in
>> news:128rpil...@news.supernews.com:
>>
>> > "Arbitrar Of Quality" <tsm...@wildmail.com> wrote in message
>> > news:1150140108.1...@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>> >
>> >> BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER
>> >> Season Five, Episode 6: "Family"
>> >
>> >
>> >> What's funny is that Mrs. Quality's reaction to
>> >> Buffy's "you gotta come through me" was sarcasm about never
>> >> having seen that coming. But I actually wasn't sure until
>> >> she said it - Buffy can be pretty unforgiving. Shouldn't
>> >> have doubted her here, though; must be slipping in my old
>> >> age.
>> >
>> > It probably helped that SMG really sold it. The way she
>> > started that speech, you had to think maybe Tara was toast.
>> >
>>
>> I seem to also recall Willow initially looking like SHE was
>> afraid Buffy was going to let the Maclay's take Tara.
>>
>>
> And one can re-watch those scenes here:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0NeD8OuvgLk
Turns out that we don't see Willow's face during the beginning part
of Buffy's speech.
(We do see Tara's face and one could argue that Tara might not have
been so worried if Willow had appeared calm.)
--
Michael Ikeda mmi...@erols.com
"Telling a statistician not to use sampling is like telling an
astronomer they can't say there is a moon and stars"
Lynne Billard, past president American Statistical Association
chr...@removethistoreply.gwu.edu
> peachy ashie passion wrote:
>> Arbitrar Of Quality wrote:
>>
>> > That's a good post; don't let the fact that I don't really have
>> > anything to add to it suggest otherwise.
>> >
>> > -AOQ
>> >
>>
>> *grin*
>>
>> Since you've snipped all of it, and we have no idea which post you
>> mean, I'm going to pick one.
>
> The one that it was a response to would probably be a good guess.
>
> If that doesn't help...
>
>
> Ah yes, Family. It's not one of the major classics like Innocence or
> Hush, but I really like it. Like all the Joss-written, Joss-directed
[snip]
> Happy?
Dunno about Peachy, but I sure am! ;)
--Chris
______________________________________________________________________
chrisg [at] gwu.edu On the Internet, nobody knows I'm a dog.
Mel
George W Harris wrote:
> On Mon, 12 Jun 2006 18:47:16 -0700, Mel <melb...@uci.net> wrote:
>
> :
> :
> :One Bit Shy wrote:
> :
> :> "Arbitrar Of Quality" <tsm...@wildmail.com> wrote in message
> :> news:1150140108.1...@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> :>
> :
> :>
> :>>Before we answer that question, we have that rarest of creatures, a
> :>>fight against invisible enemies that's actually a decent action scene
> :>>and doesn't look too stupid. Liked Anya with the crystal ball, and
> :>>Spike's unseen and unappreciated contribution. He makes himself
> :>>pretty useful this week, but no ones about to give him a medal for it.
> :>
> :>
> :> He goes there to watch Buffy die and then voluntarily steps in to save her.
> :> Yep, Spike is deep in it now.
> :
> :
> :Did he really? I got the impression he was only putting on a show for
> :Harmony.
>
> Well, he starts out just watching, but then
> he gets all exasperated (presumably at his need to
> pitch in) before diving into the fray. If he were just
> putting on a show for Harmony, he would have
> dived right in from the start.
>
> :Looked to me like he was off to make sure nothing bad happened to her.
>
> Yeah, except for the not doing that at first part.
> :
> :Mel
When he realized she was at an unfair disadvantage by not being able to
see who/what was attacking her. That part probably spoiled the fun of
just watching. If she had been able to see them from the start, she
likely wouldn't have needed his help anyway. But he wanted to be there,
just in case.
Mel
Don Sample
Mel <melb...@uci.net> wrote:
I think it was more a case of Spike deciding that Buffy was *his*
Slayer, and if anything was going to kill her, it was going to be him.
James Craine
Arbitrar Of Quality wrote:
> A reminder: Please avoid spoilers for later episodes in these review
> threads.
>
>
> BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER
> Season Five, Episode 6: "Family"
> (or "A little group it's always been/And always will, until the
> end")
> Writer: Joss Whedon
> Director: Joss Whedon
>
>
> I like some of the little details during the moving scene; the
> wrestling amused me for some reason, especially since Xander seemed to
> be winning.
I am drawing a complete blank on Xander wrestling someone.
Could someone describe this scene for me. Thanks in advance.
James Craine
EGK wrote:
> On 12 Jun 2006 12:21:48 -0700, "Arbitrar Of Quality" <tsm...@wildmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>>One-sentence summary: Moving.
>>
>>AOQ rating: Excellent
>>
>>[Season Five so far:
>>1) "Buffy Vs. Dracula" - Good
>>2) "Real Me" - Decent
>>3) "The Replacement" - Good
>>4) "Out Of My Mind" - Weak
>>5) "No Place Like Home" - Decent
>>6) "Family" - Excellent]
>
>
>
> I long ago gave up trying to predict your reviews. I find you to be all
> over the map.
>
> I always thought Family was one of the worst episodes of the series because
> of the cliches and preachiness involved. I Definitely thought it was one of
> the worst pieces of writing from Joss Whedon. It would have made a good
> Afternoon Special.
>
> I remember how the analogy of witchcraft to lesbianism had me groaning out
> loud and rolling my eyes at one point. It was when Tara's father is in her
> apartment and admonishes her for leaving her "toys" right out where he could
> find them.
I agree with the above. I was also dis-appointed in the
reveal of why Tara sabotaged the demon-locator spell. It
seemed anticlimactic after all the times we saw it in the
'previouslies'. Perhaps it would have been better if we had
never had it called to our attention until this week.
Wes <>
<tsm...@wildmail.com> wrote:
>A reminder: Please avoid spoilers for later episodes in these review
>threads.
>
>
> On the other hand, the way in which it's
>revealed and played out is highly cool, especially the timing with
>which Spike hits her and recoils. Despite the awesomeness of the
>moment, I must nitpick and point out that allowing him to throw the
>punch at all before causing the pain is inconsistent with the way
>Spike's implant has worked in the past...
>
FWIW here's my 1 cent on the chip.
*Envisioned by someone like Maggie Walsh.
*His/Her/Their parameters translated into computer code by some
programmers and molded into chip form.
*Taken by a surgeon and embedded into the brain of a dead human
currently being used by a demon entity.
If it was installed correctly and is working properly (seems like we
all think that it is) then it will cause pain when the parameters
match up with Spike's intentions.
Not knowing what the actual parameters are or how the chips data is
gathered combined with not knowing Spike's intention for every shove
or punch leaves me wondering why no one has mentioned it's oddest
feature:
The large number of messages it generates in a.tv.b-v-s
Wes
>
>So...
Rowan Hawthorn
While the gang is moving Buffy out of her dorm room and back home, Riley
and Xander are wrestling in the doorway.
GILES: Well, I saw myself in more of a patriarchal sort of role. You
know, lots of pointing and scowling. (to Xander and Riley) You
two, stop that!
Xander and Riley are wrestling in a headlock in the corner.
RILEY: He started it!
XANDER: He called me a bad name. I think it was bad. It might have been
Latin.
Tara watches them playing and smiles.
GILES: Stop it or you’re going to break something.
BUFFY: Or I’m going to break something.
Riley and Xander immediately settle down.
The real joke is in how *quickly* they settle down at Buffy's threat.
--
Rowan Hawthorn
"Occasionally, I'm callous and strange." - Willow Rosenberg, "Buffy the
Vampire Slayer"
mariposas rand mair fheal greykitten tomys des anges
> Could someone describe this scene for me. Thanks in advance.
in the scene where they are moving buffy out of her dorm room
to go back home
xander and riley start to wrestle off screen
and then the camera goes to them in headlock
EGK
wrote:
I have to wonder if something was changed by the time of Family as far as
why Tara cast the original spell. There were all those rumors about how the
character of Tara was originally supposed to be some sort of magical
"sprite" or whatever. Mind you, I don't know that for a fact as it was
things I read posted in here. When Seth Greene decided to leave the show it
changed the development of Tara as she replaced him as Willow's love
interest.
Maybe someone else can shed more light on how much truth there is in all
this. I guess it all depends on whether the character of Tara was meant to
exist even before they knew Seth was leaving the show.
Rowan Hawthorn
Well, of course. If we *had* those parameters along with the chip's
complete operating specs, there wouldn't be any room for quibbling...
George W Harris
:When he realized she was at an unfair disadvantage by not being able to
:see who/what was attacking her. That part probably spoiled the fun of
:just watching. If she had been able to see them from the start, she
:likely wouldn't have needed his help anyway. But he wanted to be there,
:just in case.
Here, I'll put it plainly: that interpretation is
completely contradicted by Marsters' performance.
:Mel
--
"It is always a simple matter to drag people along whether it is a
democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist
dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the
bidding of the leaders. This is easy. All you have to do is tell them
they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of
patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in every
country."
-Hermann Goering
George W. Harris For actual email address, replace each 'u' with an 'i'.
George W Harris
<James...@Hotmail.com> wrote:
:
:
:Arbitrar Of Quality wrote:
:
:> A reminder: Please avoid spoilers for later episodes in these review
:> threads.
:>
:>
:> BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER
:> Season Five, Episode 6: "Family"
:> (or "A little group it's always been/And always will, until the
:> end")
:> Writer: Joss Whedon
:> Director: Joss Whedon
:>
:>
:> I like some of the little details during the moving scene; the
:> wrestling amused me for some reason, especially since Xander seemed to
:> be winning.
:
:I am drawing a complete blank on Xander wrestling someone.
The Xander-Spike naked oil wrestling scene
isn't on your version of the DVDs?
--
e^(i*pi)+1=0
(Harmony) Watcher
"Don Sample" <dsa...@synapse.net> wrote in message
news:dsample-32D86C...@news.giganews.com...
> In article <_vudnb2ueeGQxhLZ...@uci.net>,
> Mel <melb...@uci.net> wrote:
>
> > George W Harris wrote:
> > > On Mon, 12 Jun 2006 18:47:16 -0700, Mel <melb...@uci.net> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > :Looked to me like he was off to make sure nothing bad happened to
her.
> > >
> > > Yeah, except for the not doing that at first part.
> > > :
> > > :Mel
> >
> > When he realized she was at an unfair disadvantage by not being able to
> > see who/what was attacking her. That part probably spoiled the fun of
> > just watching. If she had been able to see them from the start, she
> > likely wouldn't have needed his help anyway. But he wanted to be there,
> > just in case.
>
> I think it was more a case of Spike deciding that Buffy was *his*
> Slayer, and if anything was going to kill her, it was going to be him.
>
>
confused about his own feelings for the Slayer, especially after his
awakening to his own crush on the Slayer at the end of "Out of My Mind"
(http://bdb.vrya.net/bdb/clip.php?clip=153) which was two episodes earlier.
He just wanted to be around Buffy, but he did not know whether he should
kill her or let her dust him--like in his dream in OOMM.
I know it's polite to knock before you enter, but can someone explain to me
why the Lei-Ach demons knocked on the door to the Magic Box?
==Harmony Watcher==
Wes <>
<rowan_h...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>Wes <> wrote:
>>
>> FWIW here's my 1 cent on the chip.
>>
>> *Envisioned by someone like Maggie Walsh.
>> *His/Her/Their parameters translated into computer code by some
>> programmers and molded into chip form.
>> *Taken by a surgeon and embedded into the brain of a dead human
>> currently being used by a demon entity.
>>
>> If it was installed correctly and is working properly (seems like we
>> all think that it is) then it will cause pain when the parameters
>> match up with Spike's intentions.
>>
>> Not knowing what the actual parameters are or how the chips data is
>> gathered combined with not knowing Spike's intention for every shove
>> or punch leaves me wondering why no one has mentioned it's oddest
>> feature:
>>
>> The large number of messages it generates in a.tv.b-v-s
>
>Well, of course. If we *had* those parameters along with the chip's
>complete operating specs, there wouldn't be any room for quibbling...
lol
(Harmony) Watcher
"Rowan Hawthorn" <rowan_h...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:-IqdnUAwPYKR4xLZ...@giganews.com...
the pain intensity that the chip was causing Spike to experience in very
different situations. In short, the writers were not too careful or, more
likely, did not care enough about those details. That opens up room for
technobabbling fanfic.
But to reconcile those seeming inconsistencies, the theory that the chip was
designed using parameters to sense Spike's INTENTIONS is clearly not enough.
Supposedly, the chip would only fire when there was a human target that
Spike wanted to harm directly. If the chip were to fire based solely on
Spike's intention to do harm to humans, his consorting with Adam to harm
humans would have triggered the chip many times. No on screen evidence to
the latter that I can recall.
<technobabble fanfic>
Perhaps a simpler theory is this: The chip continuously detects the
proximity of a human soul, and measures the precise coordinates of the
target human soul relative to the chip. The chip will fire on the subject
being implanted with the chip (vamp or not) if the subject attempts to move
closer to the target than a specified distance (adjustable, say, from 5 ft
to 0 ft). Later models was adjustable from 30 ft to 0 ft.
Remarks: The earliest prototypes could only accommodate up to one humans
soul in the immediate area. But third generation models (one of which was
implanted in Spike) could differentiate up to twenty human souls in the
immediate area. The current design is known to give false positives of a
human soul in any felines of Eygptian and Persian descent. Meow.
</technobabble fanfic>
==Harmony Watcher==
mariposas rand mair fheal greykitten tomys des anges
George W Harris <gha...@mundsprung.com> wrote:
> On Wed, 14 Jun 2006 02:51:43 GMT, James Craine
> <James...@Hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> :
> :
> :Arbitrar Of Quality wrote:
> :
> :> A reminder: Please avoid spoilers for later episodes in these review
> :> threads.
> :>
> :>
> :> BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER
> :> Season Five, Episode 6: "Family"
> :> (or "A little group it's always been/And always will, until the
> :> end")
> :> Writer: Joss Whedon
> :> Director: Joss Whedon
> :>
> :>
> :> I like some of the little details during the moving scene; the
> :> wrestling amused me for some reason, especially since Xander seemed to
> :> be winning.
> :
> :I am drawing a complete blank on Xander wrestling someone.
>
> The Xander-Spike naked oil wrestling scene
> isn't on your version of the DVDs?
rot 13 your spoilers
Stephen Tempest
>That goes to how long she has been practising (and far longer than Willow
>isn't necessarily that long), not how experienced she is. Assuming that with
>witchcraft as with other skills, one gains experience by practice rather
>than passage of time since one first took up the skill. I think this is the
>first spell we see her cast on her own, and she appears to have been
>overtaken by Willow, and yet Willow doesn't seem to be at the level of
>Catherine or even Amy.
Tara tells Willow, in 'Hush', that she's been practicing magic
"Always... I mean, since I was little."
She casts a spell on her own in 'Superstar' (a confusing mist so she
can hide from Jonathan's Monster from the Id). She also taught Willow
the 'teeny Tinkerbell light' spell that Willow later modified.
In season 4, Willow refers several times to Tara being more
experienced or more powerful in witchcraft than her.
Ol gur raq bs frnfba 5, Jvyybj vf fgvyy srryvat fur'f va Gnen'f funqbj
jura vg pbzrf gb jvgpupensg, ohg Gnen vf urefrys trggvat pbaprearq ol
ubj dhvpxyl Jvyybj vf yrneavat: "vg'f whfg... V zrna V whfg srry yvxr
gur whavbe cnegare fbzrgvzrf, lbh'ir orra qbvat rirelguvat ybatre guna
zr, lbh'ir orra bhg ybatre, naq cenpgvpvat jvgpupensg jnl ybatre--"
"--Bu ohg lbh'er jnl orlbaq zr gurer. Va whfg n srj -- V zrna vg
sevtugraf zr ubj cbjreshy lbh'er trggvat."
naq ntnva, sebz yngre va gur fnzr fprar, "V jbeel. Fbzrgvzrf...
Lbh'er punatvat fb zhpu, fb snfg, V qba'g xabj... jurer lbh'er
urnqvat..."
Stephen
Stephen Tempest
>Perhaps a simpler theory is this: The chip continuously detects the
>proximity of a human soul, and measures the precise coordinates of the
>target human soul relative to the chip. The chip will fire on the subject
>being implanted with the chip (vamp or not) if the subject attempts to move
>closer to the target than a specified distance (adjustable, say, from 5 ft
>to 0 ft). Later models was adjustable from 30 ft to 0 ft.
Phgr, ohg vg qbrfa'g rkcynva ubj Ohssl pbhyq xvff Fcvxr jvgubhg
gevttrevat gur puvc... (va O5.18 'Vagreiragvba')
Stephen
vague disclaimer
"\(Harmony\) Watcher" <nob...@nonesuch.com> wrote:
> I know it's polite to knock before you enter, but can someone explain to me
> why the Lei-Ach demons knocked on the door to the Magic Box?
They're just whacky that way.
--
Wikipedia: like Usenet, moderated by trolls
(Harmony) Watcher
"Stephen Tempest" <ste...@stempest.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:gmov821kg47btaq4s...@4ax.com...
without the chip being able to read intentions. I *did* imply that my theory
is *necessary* to supplant the "intentions driven" theory. This means that
in addition to its ability to detect a human soul, the chip also has to
perform functions analogous to what a lie detector measures, but on a much
deeper and complex level. The chip will have to measure a lot of
physiological changes in the subject, including adrenaline levels, other
hormonal levels, heart rate, brain waves, and all other physiological
changes that might be useful in identifying the subject's intention to do
*immediate* harm.
--
==Harmony Watcher==
3D Master
> I'm of mixed feelings about having the demon thing be a superstition
> designed to keep the wimmin-folk in line or whatever. And that's
> ignoring the fact that I don't really know how such a thing would
> continue to work after everyone saw her visibly failing to become a
> demon. On the one hand, the story might've been more interesting had
> Tara's father genuinely thought he was acting out of the world's
> given the "She" precedent, I'm sure people would start whining
> that it would complicate the allegory about homophobia, and we
> wouldn't want actual drama or interesting things getting in the way
> of our allegories.) On the other hand, the way in which it's
> revealed and played out is highly cool, especially the timing with
> which Spike hits her and recoils. Despite the awesomeness of the
> moment, I must nitpick and point out that allowing him to throw the
> punch at all before causing the pain is inconsistent with the way
> Spike's implant has worked in the past...
Actually, that's quite understandable. In all the other times, he went
to hurt a human and thought about hurting a human. Here he's just going:
"Ooh, she might be a demon! I get to hurt one of the hated few as a
freebe if she is, AND not get hurt in the process. Nifty!" He hits her,
and the chip (probably testing through Spike's sense of smell, realizes
it's a human) gives him pain. The intention to hurt a human isn't there,
so the chip doesn't give the pre-emptive pain.
3D Master
--
~~~~~
"I've got something to say; it's better to burn out than to fade away!"
- The Kurgan, Highlander
"Give me some sugar, baby!"
- Ashley J. 'Ash' Williams, Army of Darkness
~~~~~
Author of several stories, which can be found here:
http://members.chello.nl/~jg.temolder1/
Rowan Hawthorn
> On Wed, 14 Jun 2006 02:51:43 GMT, James Craine
> <James...@Hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> :
> :
> :Arbitrar Of Quality wrote:
> :
> :> A reminder: Please avoid spoilers for later episodes in these review
> :> threads.
> :>
> :>
> :> BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER
> :> Season Five, Episode 6: "Family"
> :> (or "A little group it's always been/And always will, until the
> :> end")
> :> Writer: Joss Whedon
> :> Director: Joss Whedon
> :>
> :>
> :> I like some of the little details during the moving scene; the
> :> wrestling amused me for some reason, especially since Xander seemed to
> :> be winning.
> :
> :I am drawing a complete blank on Xander wrestling someone.
>
> The Xander-Spike naked oil wrestling scene
> isn't on your version of the DVDs?
>
No, thank all the gods in all the pantheons...
3D Master
> <technobabble fanfic>
> Perhaps a simpler theory is this: The chip continuously detects the
> proximity of a human soul, and measures the precise coordinates of the
> target human soul relative to the chip. The chip will fire on the subject
> being implanted with the chip (vamp or not) if the subject attempts to move
> closer to the target than a specified distance (adjustable, say, from 5 ft
> to 0 ft). Later models was adjustable from 30 ft to 0 ft.
> Remarks: The earliest prototypes could only accommodate up to one humans
> soul in the immediate area. But third generation models (one of which was
> implanted in Spike) could differentiate up to twenty human souls in the
> immediate area. The current design is known to give false positives of a
> human soul in any felines of Eygptian and Persian descent. Meow.
> </technobabble fanfic>
I think it's much more likely that the chip is tied in with the
vampire's senses: most notably smell. It's highly developed for hunting,
and can probably easily pick the difference between a human and
something else.
Rowan Hawthorn
Yeah, but that's not nearly as funny as *my* theory...
> In short, the writers were not too careful or, more
> likely, did not care enough about those details. That opens up room for
> technobabbling fanfic.
There were also some scenes where, apparently, the stunt crew either
didn't get what was supposed to be happening, or simply went with the
action, Spike's escape from the Initiative being one; IIRC, it's
specifically stated in one of the commentaries that they overdid the
action sequence. Spike still screams in pain at one point, but the way
the scene is chorographed, it's not clear until later review that there
was really no reason for him to *be* in pain at that point, thus
screwing up our first view of the chip in action. Also, it's not likely
that the writers specified *how much* pain Spike should be in during any
given scene, so I'd suggest that some of the blame should lie with the
directors and James Marsters' performance.
>
> But to reconcile those seeming inconsistencies, the theory that the chip was
> designed using parameters to sense Spike's INTENTIONS is clearly not enough.
> Supposedly, the chip would only fire when there was a human target that
> Spike wanted to harm directly. If the chip were to fire based solely on
> Spike's intention to do harm to humans, his consorting with Adam to harm
> humans would have triggered the chip many times. No on screen evidence to
> the latter that I can recall.
No.
>
> <technobabble fanfic>
> Perhaps a simpler theory is this: The chip continuously detects the
> proximity of a human soul, and measures the precise coordinates of the
> target human soul relative to the chip. The chip will fire on the subject
> being implanted with the chip (vamp or not) if the subject attempts to move
> closer to the target than a specified distance (adjustable, say, from 5 ft
> to 0 ft). Later models was adjustable from 30 ft to 0 ft.
Of course, without taking intent into consideration, that would cause
pain any time Spike touched a human for any reason - even shaking hands
would trigger the chip.
> Remarks: The earliest prototypes could only accommodate up to one humans
> soul in the immediate area. But third generation models (one of which was
> implanted in Spike) could differentiate up to twenty human souls in the
> immediate area. The current design is known to give false positives of a
> human soul in any felines of Eygptian and Persian descent. Meow.
> </technobabble fanfic>
Heh. Pretty catty remark, there...
Espen Schjønberg
anges wrote:
>>I think that it's not the chip that senses the difference between
>>humans and demons, it's part of the vampire themselves that they can
>>distinguish the difference.
>
>
> assuming the existence of vampires and werewolves and sver oernguvat qentbaf
> or that you can reanimate dead flesh from bits of humans and demons
> or that prognistication demons exist
>
> i dont have a problem assuming the existence of a chip
> that can distinguish demon and human
Well, the more you bring in, the more we have to believe in. I would
generally say it is a bad thing to bring in more and more: the less they
can change the world and make good stories, the better.
In this chips' case, I would assume it is magically enhanced in some way.
Clearly, it does not use the vampires own assessments.
I am of the ones who doesn't necessarily buy the next step, I certainly
disliked the mindreading humans, allthouh it was fun (or "fun") when
Buff did it. Psychic powers bad. (I have seen Scanners, so I know;-))
--
Espen
Don Sample
3D Master <3d.m...@chello.nl> wrote:
> (Harmony) Watcher wrote:
> > <technobabble fanfic>
> > Perhaps a simpler theory is this: The chip continuously detects the
> > proximity of a human soul, and measures the precise coordinates of the
> > target human soul relative to the chip. The chip will fire on the subject
> > being implanted with the chip (vamp or not) if the subject attempts to move
> > closer to the target than a specified distance (adjustable, say, from 5 ft
> > to 0 ft). Later models was adjustable from 30 ft to 0 ft.
> > Remarks: The earliest prototypes could only accommodate up to one humans
> > soul in the immediate area. But third generation models (one of which was
> > implanted in Spike) could differentiate up to twenty human souls in the
> > immediate area. The current design is known to give false positives of a
> > human soul in any felines of Eygptian and Persian descent. Meow.
> > </technobabble fanfic>
>
> I think it's much more likely that the chip is tied in with the
> vampire's senses: most notably smell. It's highly developed for hunting,
> and can probably easily pick the difference between a human and
> something else.
>
>
> 3D Master
Ohg yngre jr ner tbvat gb frr rknzcyrf bs Fcvxr nggnpxvat uhznaf,
oryvrivat gung gurl ner qrzbaf, naq unir uvf puvc tb bss. Fb gurer vf
fbzrguvat gung gur puvc vf qbvat gung vf vaqrcraqrag bs uvf pbafpvbhf
creprcgvba bs jung ur'f nggnpxvat.
If it was just a matter of a smell, how could he distinguish between
them if he was in a room with humans and demons? He'd be smelling both,
but somehow his chip would know which he was hitting.
Don Sample
3D Master <3d.m...@chello.nl> wrote:
There is no directionality to a sense of smell, since it is dependent on
air currents to bring chemicals to your olfactory sensors, you have no
way of knowing by what path they came. If you are in a room with a
demon and a human, you might be able to smell that there's one of each,
but without actually sticking your nose up against each of them and
sniffing, you won't be able to tell them apart.