AOQ Review 2-2: "Some Assembly Required"
Arbitrar Of Quality
threads.
BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER
Season Two, Episode 2: "Some Assembly Required"
(or "Actually, here on the Hellmouth, this qualifies as a slow
episode")
Writer: Ty King
Director: Bruce Seth Green
Oh yay, it's another movie homage.
As came up a few times in the discussions for Season One, BTVS has
spent a lot of time so far telling two types of stories (most eps
actually combine some of each): metaphors, and send-ups of Fantasy
Stock Plots. So, in short, not always the best of storylines per se;
it's been more of a character show than a plot show. Thus, it's no
surprise that the success of an episode often correlates with how
important the main characters are to the general shape of the story.
The really great episodes in this mold have put some kind of twist on
things so that our core cast was fundamentally involved in the story,
not just reacting to it. One of our heroes is the one getting
possessed, the nature of the heroes' nightmares actually shapes the
direction the episode goes, etc. etc. et cetera. Whereas shows in
which Buffy et al just meet a movie monster, learn its story, and kill
it more often tend toward the bland.
"Assembly" is the second type of story, although at least it keeps
us guessing for a little about _which_ stock-plot it'll boringly
reenact. The central story concerns a couple of Frankensteins and
their quest to assemble a companion for a reanimated zombie. They
follow the slippery slope from merely salvaging body parts to needing
to kill. Nothing terribly exciting, and I don't have a whole lot to
say about it. Those of you who get special enjoyment from hearing
Charisma Carpenter scream probably enjoyed this one, but I don't know
about the rest of us.
I'd also argue that the episode suffers from a problem in tone; movie
homage episodes tend to have plenty of humor in them to distract the
audience from the fact that it's all been done before. Not so much
here. The other approach one can take to such a show is to go for a
guest character with enough pathos to give it a personal touch. It
seems like the episode is trying for that with Chris, but there's not
enough to him. He's smart, has a tragic past, is indecisive and
wishy-washy, and that's about all we really learn.
One of the sub-plots of this episode concerns Giles trying to work up
the will to ask Calendar out. The premise of the kids needing to
advise him made me smile, but seeing scene after scene of it quickly
killed any novelty. Watch the normally socially awkward guy stammer
and act, uh, awkward. Komedy! And then she's totally relaxed and
asks him out instead, in a scene taken directly from any romantic
"comedy" you care to name. Hilarity!
SAR never becomes offensively bad, but the ending portion certainly
weakens a show that wasn't tremendously strong to begin with.
Chris's moral dilemna is played with all the subtlety of a hammer to
a decaying skeleton. I'm inclined to blame the script rather than
the actors here, since I don't think it's humanly possible to
deliver the phrase "take a life" in a way that sounds natural.
(Try it if you don't believe me.) And the part where one line from
Buffy is enough to change his mind is straight out of _Kung Pow!_...
MASTER TANG: I feel for you and your grave loss. However, it will be
impossible for us to help you.
CHOSEN ONE: Master, I implore you to reconsider!
MASTER TANG: Hmmm... Okay!
Digression over. Anyway, since the show is trying so hard to push the
character drama, you'd think Daryl would be at the center of things.
Instead he's someone who'd be rejected from a Saturday morning
cartoon for being too cardboard, what with his "I need this!"
speeches and his grabbing his henchmen by their throats at regular
intervals.
And then the climactic showdown. I'm starting to think the writer
weren't thinking clearly when they made their hero so powerful and
then didn't have enough stories to support it. Considering that the
last two episodes the average viewer has seen are "Prophecy Girl"
and WSWB, did they really expect us to buy one high school kid
(football player or not), in full slow-lumbering-zombie mode, as a
legitimate threat to a Slayer?
I do lists of bad more often than good, so let's break up the litany
of complains, and list the things that were good about SAR:
1] Some of the dialogue in the opening scene, particularly Buffy being
forthright about the thing with Xander being entirely for Ange's
benefit, and Angel's mentioning that she feels the need to bring up
the vampire thing a little more often than seems necessary.
2] As an extension of 1], Willow mentioning that even Sunnydale
Forgetty-itis won't let Buffy live down the events of WSWB so
quickly.
3] Cordelia's hypersensitive Spidey Sense. It makes sense that
she'd be seeing vampires around every corner.
4] Faking it as the key to success in science. It's that way in all
academia, actually.
5] Three lines: "BYO-shovel," Giles' reference to a computer as
"that thing," and "I'm the apex."
6] Eric. He adds a little bit of wicked fun to scenes that desperately
need it, and has an amusingly pathetic attempt at a goatee. Oh, you
kids...
7] I guess the mom rewatching the games was a decent image. I'll
include it so the list makes it to ten.
8] Some of the Giles/Calendar dialogue at the game (that one scene
only).
9] Buffy casually catching Eric's knife.
10] The entire closing conversation between Buffy and Angel - this is
the one moment when the episode reaches the kind of quality that I know
this show is capable of. And although I haven't been hugely
impressed with Boreanaz's death-before-emoting acting style, he does
have the uncanny ability to deliver clichés and make them sound
non-cliché-ish.
Well, we made it to ten. Which sounds like a lot of good, especially
when it's in a big list like that. But together it adds up to maybe
five minutes, and considering I can't think of _anything_ else I
liked, that's disappointing. I expect my shows to go to eleven.
(Actually, I'd certainly hope I'd like more than eleven things, but
that's not how the pop-culture reference goes.)
So....
One-sentence summary: This one should've stayed dead.
AOQ rating: Weak
[Season Two so far:
1) "When She Was Bad" - Good
2) "Some Assembly Required" - Weak]
kenm47
say I always enjoyed the homage eppisodes - in this case Bride of
Frankenstein.
I also liked the subplot of the crazy Mom who ignores the living son
while bemoaning the loss of the dead one.
My recollection is I thought the show a decent enough standalone after
WSWB, a nice pause while trying to figure out WTF were they doing and
going with no Master anymore? Was SAR just a pause or a sign that ME
was now without a direction? Had Buffy shot its load? Who knew?
No problem here with the Giles/Jenny cutesie stuff.
Ken (Brooklyn)
MBangel10 (Melissa)
yeah, it's a pretty weak episode in my book too.
Apteryx
news:1138763120.8...@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
A reminder: Please avoid spoilers for later episodes in these review
threads.
One of the sub-plots of this episode concerns Giles trying to work up
the will to ask Calendar out. The premise of the kids needing to
advise him made me smile, but seeing scene after scene of it quickly
killed any novelty. Watch the normally socially awkward guy stammer
and act, uh, awkward. Komedy! And then she's totally relaxed and
asks him out instead, in a scene taken directly from any romantic
"comedy" you care to name. Hilarity!
Corny is OK if you first make viewers interested in the participants. I am
interested in whether Giles and Jenny can get together, so all their
dialogue (both here and at the match, which you like) is the main redeeming
feature of the episode for me. That and Willows realisation that if it is
possible to raise the dead, her science projoect is definitely coming in 2nd
this year.
One-sentence summary: This one should've stayed dead.
AOQ rating: Weak
Certainly one of the weakest episodes in the first 3 seasons, and the main
story is lame, but with the interaction between Giles and Jenny Calendar,
I'd say it manages Decent. Overall the 114th best BtVS episode for me, and
the 21st best in Season 2 (if I can put it that way)
--
Apteryx
Daniel Damouth
> A reminder: Please avoid spoilers for later episodes in these
> review threads.
> As came up a few times in the discussions for Season One, BTVS has
> spent a lot of time so far telling two types of stories (most eps
> actually combine some of each): metaphors, and send-ups of Fantasy
> Stock Plots. So, in short, not always the best of storylines per
> se; it's been more of a character show than a plot show. Thus,
> it's no surprise that the success of an episode often correlates
> with how important the main characters are to the general shape of
> the story. The really great episodes in this mold have put some
> kind of twist on things so that our core cast was fundamentally
> involved in the story, not just reacting to it.
This is a trenchant observation.
[...]
> And then the climactic showdown. I'm starting to think the writer
> weren't thinking clearly when they made their hero so powerful and
> then didn't have enough stories to support it. Considering that
> the last two episodes the average viewer has seen are "Prophecy
> Girl" and WSWB, did they really expect us to buy one high school
> kid (football player or not), in full slow-lumbering-zombie mode,
> as a legitimate threat to a Slayer?
Another accurate observation.
> I do lists of bad more often than good, so let's break up the
> litany of complains, and list the things that were good about SAR:
Thank you for this. Part of the pleasure of reading reviews of a
show I love is communicating about the good parts.
[All 10 deleted]
> Well, we made it to ten. Which sounds like a lot of good,
> especially when it's in a big list like that. But together it
> adds up to maybe five minutes, and considering I can't think of
> _anything_ else I liked, that's disappointing.
What about Cordelia's foray into decency at the end, when she
attempted to thank Xander, who completely blew her off while
commiserating with Willow about their lack of relationships? And
Cordy's so cute with ash on her nose and forehead.
You liked the "P.S., this is a trap" line last time; how about "added
up, it all spells 'duh'" in this one?
And I think my personal favorite is Giles being excited:
Giles: "Grave robbing? That's new. Interesting."
Buffy: "I *know* you meant to say gross and disturbing."
Giles: "Yes, yes, yes, terrible thing. Must put a stop to it. Damn
it."
-Dan Damouth
Don Sample
"Apteryx" <apt...@extra.co.nz> wrote:
> Certainly one of the weakest episodes in the first 3 seasons, and the main
> story is lame, but with the interaction between Giles and Jenny Calendar,
> I'd say it manages Decent. Overall the 114th best BtVS episode for me, and
> the 21st best in Season 2 (if I can put it that way)
And like many of the weak episodes, it does have some very memorable
lines in it. "Yes, yes, yes of course. Terrible thing. Must, must put a
stop to it. Damn-it."
--
Quando omni flunkus moritati
Visit the Buffy Body Count at <http://homepage.mac.com/dsample/>
shuggie
Arbitrar Of Quality wrote:
<snip>
> Oh yay, it's another movie homage.
<snip>
> "Assembly" is the second type of story, although at least it keeps
> us guessing for a little about _which_ stock-plot it'll boringly
> reenact.
See I wasn't bored.
<snip>
> I'd also argue that the episode suffers from a problem in tone; movie
> homage episodes tend to have plenty of humor in them to distract the
> audience from the fact that it's all been done before. Not so much
> here.
That's odd. I re-watched this last night in anticipation of your review
and my memory of it was that it was a weaker episode (but still good).
However I was slightly surprised as I'd forgotten how funny it was.
There seemed to be quite a few one-liners. I especially liked a couple
of Cordy moments:
Cordy: Why are these terrible things always happening to me?
Xander: *cough* Karma! *cough*
and
Cordelia: Hello! Can we deal with my pain, please?
Giles: There, there
> The other approach one can take to such a show is to go for a
> guest character with enough pathos to give it a personal touch. It
> seems like the episode is trying for that with Chris, but there's not
> enough to him. He's smart, has a tragic past, is indecisive and
> wishy-washy, and that's about all we really learn.
I think we learn more. We learn he was both in awe of his brother and
feels he owes him something. He's overlooked by his mother, especially
now. He's smarter than Willow (and that's smart!) at science and yet
no-one's interested because they're too busy with his brother the
football god. And now his brother's dead he can never really come out
from under his shadow because how can you compete with a dead hero?
>
> One of the sub-plots of this episode concerns Giles trying to work up
> the will to ask Calendar out. The premise of the kids needing to
> advise him made me smile, but seeing scene after scene of it quickly
> killed any novelty. Watch the normally socially awkward guy stammer
> and act, uh, awkward. Komedy! And then she's totally relaxed and
> asks him out instead, in a scene taken directly from any romantic
> "comedy" you care to name. Hilarity!
>
I liked it. But then I romantic comedy generally. Rom-com stuff lives
and dies on whether you like the characters and feel they've got
chemistry. That stuff all works for me. I like Giles and want him to be
happy. Ms Calendar we've seen less of but she seems kind of fun.
Also I think that you're right that the structure isn't all that
original but the dialogue they use to flesh it out is fun - Xander's
comment about the chair, Buffy's "I've got a thing, you've got a thing"
and so on.
<snip>
> Digression over. Anyway, since the show is trying so hard to push the
> character drama, you'd think Daryl would be at the center of things.
> Instead he's someone who'd be rejected from a Saturday morning
> cartoon for being too cardboard, what with his "I need this!"
> speeches and his grabbing his henchmen by their throats at regular
> intervals.
>
Again I disagree. Rewatching last night I thought that whilst there's a
certain stiff mannerism to his character, I think that's part of the
frankenstein monster homage, and the scene with Chris is quite well
done I thought.
> And then the climactic showdown. I'm starting to think the writer
> weren't thinking clearly when they made their hero so powerful and
> then didn't have enough stories to support it. Considering that the
> last two episodes the average viewer has seen are "Prophecy Girl"
> and WSWB, did they really expect us to buy one high school kid
> (football player or not), in full slow-lumbering-zombie mode, as a
> legitimate threat to a Slayer?
>
Erm, but the threat is not to the Slayer it's to Cordy. It's not a
question of whether Buffy can beat Daryl it's whether she can find
Cordy in time to stop the surgery.
<snip>
> 6] Eric. He adds a little bit of wicked fun to scenes that desperately
> need it, and has an amusingly pathetic attempt at a goatee. Oh, you
> kids...
See, whereas you thought Chris and Daryl were weak I think Eric was
rent-a-quirky-sidekick. He has exactly enough character to fulfill his
role in the plot and no more.
<snip>
> 8] Some of the Giles/Calendar dialogue at the game (that one scene
> only).
Yes and Xander and Willow joining them despite Giles' efforts to send
them away.
>
> 9] Buffy casually catching Eric's knife.
>
A shameless recycling of the same gag from the original movie. Can't
remember if you've seen that or not so:
Ohssl'f jngpure va gur zbivr (abg Tvyrf) vf gelvat gb pbaivapr ure
fur'f gur Fynlre. Fur guvaxf ur'f fbzr enaqbz jrveqb fb fur vtaberf
uvz. Ur guebjf n xavsr ng ure urnq juvpu fur pngpurf rnfvyl ol ersyrk,
guhf cebivat fur'f tbg fhcre-angheny novyvgvrf naq cvffvat ure bss.
<snip>
> One-sentence summary: This one should've stayed dead.
>
> AOQ rating: Weak
I checked my old "5-star rating" vote (there were regular voting
threads here and in the UK Buffy groups) and I gave it 4/5. Which
seemed high based on my memory but based on last night's re-watching I
think it's fair. My votes are based on how I enjoyed it at the time (of
the vote) so if it's lost a little in too many viewings I'm still not
going to revise it.
rrh...@acme.com
Arbitrar Of Quality wrote:
>> One-sentence summary: This one should've stayed dead.
>
> AOQ rating: Weak
>
> [Season Two so far:
> 1) "When She Was Bad" - Good
> 2) "Some Assembly Required" - Weak]
Once again, you and I agree (revealing you to be a gentleman of grace
and wisdom, and undoubtedly dashingly handsome as well). It wasn't a
terrible episode, but it wasn't all the good, either.
Richard R. Hershberger
Mike Zeares
>
> Oh yay, it's another movie homage.
[snip] Whereas shows in
> which Buffy et al just meet a movie monster, learn its story, and kill
> it more often tend toward the bland.
Well... uh, yeah. I can't really argue with that.
> Those of you who get special enjoyment from hearing
> Charisma Carpenter scream probably enjoyed this one, but I don't know
> about the rest of us.
Ahem. Yep, that would be me. Best thing in the episode, apart from a
few funny lines.
> And then the climactic showdown. I'm starting to think the writer
> weren't thinking clearly when they made their hero so powerful and
> then didn't have enough stories to support it. Considering that the
> last two episodes the average viewer has seen are "Prophecy Girl"
> and WSWB, did they really expect us to buy one high school kid
> (football player or not), in full slow-lumbering-zombie mode, as a
> legitimate threat to a Slayer?
This might be a good time to warn you about something. It was once
acknowledged by, if I recall correctly, the stunt coordinator that
Buffy's strength varies according to the needs of the plot. Start
dealing with that now, or it will just bug you that much more later.
This show is driven by the characters' emotions, and everything else is
secondary. Or even tertiary.
> One-sentence summary: This one should've stayed dead.
You know, that was my original reaction to SAR. I think I actually
hated it. However, it grew on me after repeated viewings, especially
after a year or so. I consider it a guilty pleasure now, along with
most of the other cheesy B-movie "homages." I've always suspected that
Greenwalt had a lot to do with that aspect of BtVS. He might have even
been explicitly credited with it in an article in some forgotten
magazine, but the memory grows dim.
-- Mike Zeares
Mike Zeares
shuggie wrote:
> There seemed to be quite a few one-liners. I especially liked a couple
> of Cordy moments:
>
> Cordy: Why are these terrible things always happening to me?
>
> Xander: *cough* Karma! *cough*
Ah, thanks for that. I forgot to mention it in my other post.
Possibly my favorite Xander line ever. I think it was the only line
that made me laugh out loud during the original airing.
it. I also liked Buffy's "Pathetic much?" when Xander and Giles
hesitated at opening the coffin. That whole scene was pretty quotable,
in fact.
-- Mike Zeares
Vanya6724
dogs. There are at least two episodes coming up which I think are even
worse than SAR, and probably worse than anything in Season 1, other
than "I Robot". But hold on, the good stuff is really good.
Espen Schjønberg
> Arbitrar Of Quality wrote:
>>[] I'm starting to think the writer
>>weren't thinking clearly when they made their hero so powerful and
>>then didn't have enough stories to support it. Considering that the
>>last two episodes the average viewer has seen are "Prophecy Girl"
>>and WSWB, did they really expect us to buy one high school kid
>>(football player or not), in full slow-lumbering-zombie mode, as a
>>legitimate threat to a Slayer?
>
>
> This might be a good time to warn you about something. It was once
> acknowledged by, if I recall correctly, the stunt coordinator that
> Buffy's strength varies according to the needs of the plot. Start
> dealing with that now, or it will just bug you that much more later.
> This show is driven by the characters' emotions, and everything else is
> secondary. Or even tertiary.
To fan-wank a bit: perhaps Buffys strenght _do_ vary with what strenght
she needs. After all, we don't know how this Slayer-thing works. She is
a girl, but can dip as deep as she needs to get strength somehow.
Perhaps the difference between a losing slayer, and a winning one, is
the ability to be able to control this, and be able to dip deeper into
the well by will.
>>One-sentence summary: This one should've stayed dead.
>
>
> You know, that was my original reaction to SAR. I think I actually
> hated it. However, it grew on me after repeated viewings, especially
> after a year or so. []
Yeah, someone here thinks like me. SAR is now one of the better episodes
to watch again.
The way Buff harasses the boys in the graveyard-scene? Lovely. :-)
--
Espen
William George Ferguson
wrote:
>In article <8wXDf.105056$vH5.1...@news.xtra.co.nz>,
> "Apteryx" <apt...@extra.co.nz> wrote:
>
>> Certainly one of the weakest episodes in the first 3 seasons, and the main
>> story is lame, but with the interaction between Giles and Jenny Calendar,
>> I'd say it manages Decent. Overall the 114th best BtVS episode for me, and
>> the 21st best in Season 2 (if I can put it that way)
>
>And like many of the weak episodes, it does have some very memorable
>lines in it. "Yes, yes, yes of course. Terrible thing. Must, must put a
>stop to it. Damn-it."
Also, the acknowledgement (not the first time, that goes all the back to
The Harvest) that sweet innocent Willow is actually more than a little
amoral (my description of Willow through season 2 was 'classic mad
scientist', not evil but just tending to ignore little things like rules
and ethics when her curiousity is aroused, see Doctor Zarkoff in Flash
Gordon and Professor Hamilton in Superman for other examples).
Specifically her short list of students who had the skill to dismember
the corpses so expertly, ending with "and me, of course."
--
HERBERT
1996 - 1997
Beloved Mascot
Delightful Meal
He fed the Pack
A little
Steve Schaffner
> So....
>
> One-sentence summary: This one should've stayed dead.
>
> AOQ rating: Weak
I rate this one both higher and lower than AOQ. There is a lot of
dialogue in the episode that I love, more than he listed. Most of it
has already been mentioned by others: "I've got a thing", Giles's
response to Cordy's "pain", his reaction to grave-robbing, Buffy in
the graveyard. Also the little interchange in the library:
Buffy: "Angel?"
Angel: "Xander."
Xander: "Angel."
It's well-delivered (and shows that the ending of WSWB did not
reset everything within the group).
What I don't like about the episode is the handling of the
Frankenstein theme, i.e. the whole plot. The Frankenstein story begs
to be taken metaphorically, in any of several ways, but here the story
just lies there, decomposing. The only message I can take away from
the story is that being disfigured makes you a subhuman freak, which
is not exactly satisfying.
--
Steve Schaffner s...@broad.mit.edu
Immediate assurance is an excellent sign of probable lack of
insight into the topic. Josiah Royce
kenm47
the story is that being disfigured makes you a subhuman freak, which
is not exactly satisfying."
I thought it was the classic: Even monsters get lonely for a companion.
Ken (Brooklyn)
George W Harris
:
The women have the babies, the men dig up the
bodies line was classic.
:
:-- Mike Zeares
--
/bud...@nirvana.net/h:k
George W. Harris For actual email address, replace each 'u' with an 'i'
George W Harris
:
:You know, that was my original reaction to SAR. I think I actually
:hated it. However, it grew on me after repeated viewings, especially
:after a year or so. I consider it a guilty pleasure now, along with
:most of the other cheesy B-movie "homages." I've always suspected that
:Greenwalt had a lot to do with that aspect of BtVS. He might have even
:been explicitly credited with it in an article in some forgotten
:magazine, but the memory grows dim.
Given his deep (npi) involvement in the classic
B-movie homage series "Surface", that seems credible.
:
:-- Mike Zeares
--
"I'm a leaf on the wind. Watch how I soar." -Wash, 'Serenity'
George W Harris
<s...@phosphorus.broad.mit.edu> wrote:
:Buffy: "Angel?"
:Angel: "Xander."
:Xander: "Angel."
:
:It's well-delivered (and shows that the ending of WSWB did not
:reset everything within the group).
Doncha *hate* when you mess something
up like that?
--
"If you take cranberries and stew them like applesauce, they taste more like
prunes than rhubarb does" -Groucho Marx
Steve Schaffner
> On 01 Feb 2006 13:27:20 -0500, Steve Schaffner
> <s...@phosphorus.broad.mit.edu> wrote:
>
> :Buffy: "Angel?"
> :Angel: "Xander."
> :Xander: "Angel."
> :
> :It's well-delivered (and shows that the ending of WSWB did not
> :reset everything within the group).
>
> Doncha *hate* when you mess something
> up like that?
Like what?
Arbitrar Of Quality
> But together it
> > adds up to maybe five minutes, and considering I can't think of
> > _anything_ else I liked, that's disappointing.
>
> What about Cordelia's foray into decency at the end, when she
> attempted to thank Xander, who completely blew her off while
> commiserating with Willow about their lack of relationships? And
> Cordy's so cute with ash on her nose and forehead.
That scene bothered me a little bit because of two possible "meanings"
of Xander ignoring her and going back to his chat about inability to
get dates. #1 is that we're making fun of Xander for not seeing what's
in front of his face with Willow, and I'm getting quite tired of that.
#2 is that we're making fun of him for not seeing what's in front of
his face with _Cordelia_, which is dumb, given that he doesn't like her
at all, they have nothing in common, and her foray into decency is
likely to be brief. Just because someone is cute and (momentarily)
being nice to you doesn't make her girlfriend material.
I didn't put this in the review since it seemed like too remote a
possibilty, too jumping-to-unwarranted-conclusions... but that scene
made me fear that we'll see Xander and Cordelia become allies in a
coordinated effort to sabotage Buffy and Angel's relationship. I hate
to prejudge, but on a scale of one to ten, going that route would
really, really suck.
> You liked the "P.S., this is a trap" line last time; how about "added
> up, it all spells 'duh'" in this one?
Didn't care much, one way or the other. It's all in the timing. Or
the delivery. Or whatever other intangible thing you want to use to
explain why some things are funnier than others.
-AOQ
Arbitrar Of Quality
> > And then the climactic showdown. I'm starting to think the writer
> > weren't thinking clearly when they made their hero so powerful and
> > then didn't have enough stories to support it. Considering that the
> > last two episodes the average viewer has seen are "Prophecy Girl"
> > and WSWB, did they really expect us to buy one high school kid
> > (football player or not), in full slow-lumbering-zombie mode, as a
> > legitimate threat to a Slayer?
> >
>
> Erm, but the threat is not to the Slayer it's to Cordy. It's not a
> question of whether Buffy can beat Daryl it's whether she can find
> Cordy in time to stop the surgery.
But Daryl's manhandling her and tossing her around. Where's all her
killing-machine prowess? If all else fails, she could have the
soundtrack play her theme music and then kick him in the kneecaps.
("Oh look, a zombie!")
-AOQ
George W Harris
<s...@phosphorus.broad.mit.edu> wrote:
:George W Harris <gha...@mundsprung.com> writes:
:
:> On 01 Feb 2006 13:27:20 -0500, Steve Schaffner
:> <s...@phosphorus.broad.mit.edu> wrote:
:>
:> :Buffy: "Angel?"
:> :Angel: "Xander."
:> :Xander: "Angel."
:> :
:> :It's well-delivered (and shows that the ending of WSWB did not
:> :reset everything within the group).
:>
:> Doncha *hate* when you mess something
:> up like that?
:
:Like what?
Wasn't it
Buffy: "Angel."
Angel: "Buffy."
Xander: "Xander."
--
"The truths of mathematics describe a bright and clear universe,
exquisite and beautiful in its structure, in comparison with
which the physical world is turbid and confused."
-Eulogy for G.H.Hardy
Michael Ikeda
My assumption about that fight sequence was that something about the
revivification process had increased Daryl's strength to the point
where he's actually physically stronger than her.
I also suspect that Buffy is, to some extent, trying not to hurt
Daryl too much. Which would give Daryl an additional advantage.
--
Michael Ikeda mmi...@erols.com
"Telling a statistician not to use sampling is like telling an
astronomer they can't say there is a moon and stars"
Lynne Billard, past president American Statistical Association
Steve Schaffner
> On 01 Feb 2006 16:00:03 -0500, Steve Schaffner
> <s...@phosphorus.broad.mit.edu> wrote:
>
> :George W Harris <gha...@mundsprung.com> writes:
> :
> :> On 01 Feb 2006 13:27:20 -0500, Steve Schaffner
> :> <s...@phosphorus.broad.mit.edu> wrote:
> :>
> :> :Buffy: "Angel?"
> :> :Angel: "Xander."
> :> :Xander: "Angel."
> :> :
> :> :It's well-delivered (and shows that the ending of WSWB did not
> :> :reset everything within the group).
> :>
> :> Doncha *hate* when you mess something
> :> up like that?
> :
> :Like what?
>
> Wasn't it
>
> Buffy: "Angel."
> Angel: "Buffy."
> Xander: "Xander."
No.
One Bit Shy
news:1138829813.0...@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Daniel Damouth wrote:
>
>> But together it
>> > adds up to maybe five minutes, and considering I can't think of
>> > _anything_ else I liked, that's disappointing.
>>
>> What about Cordelia's foray into decency at the end, when she
>> attempted to thank Xander, who completely blew her off while
>> commiserating with Willow about their lack of relationships? And
>> Cordy's so cute with ash on her nose and forehead.
>
> That scene bothered me a little bit because of two possible "meanings"
> of Xander ignoring her and going back to his chat about inability to
> get dates. #1 is that we're making fun of Xander for not seeing what's
> in front of his face with Willow, and I'm getting quite tired of that.
> #2 is that we're making fun of him for not seeing what's in front of
> his face with _Cordelia_, which is dumb, given that he doesn't like her
> at all, they have nothing in common, and her foray into decency is
> likely to be brief. Just because someone is cute and (momentarily)
> being nice to you doesn't make her girlfriend material.
>
> I didn't put this in the review since it seemed like too remote a
> possibilty, too jumping-to-unwarranted-conclusions... but that scene
> made me fear that we'll see Xander and Cordelia become allies in a
> coordinated effort to sabotage Buffy and Angel's relationship. I hate
> to prejudge, but on a scale of one to ten, going that route would
> really, really suck.
Cool. It's fun to see your speculation. Wondering what's next.
Anyway, forgetting the speculation on the future part, I think it more
simply shows Xander's sometimes lack of awareness of subtext around him as a
more general explanation of his inability to get a date. True at that
moment no matter who he was talking to or what the future may hold.
But Willow understood. She saw exactly what happened.
>> You liked the "P.S., this is a trap" line last time; how about "added
>> up, it all spells 'duh'" in this one?
>
> Didn't care much, one way or the other. It's all in the timing. Or
> the delivery. Or whatever other intangible thing you want to use to
> explain why some things are funnier than others.
The Willow moment I particularly liked was, "It's a fruit," thereby
completing Cordelia's science project in 3 words.
>
> -AOQ
>
KenM47
OK, I've rewatched. I'll go with it's a quite acceptable ep within the
season. Continuity and much gets set up for further developments later
which I know about.
Some more good things
1. "Love makes you do the wacky." A very important theme.
2. Xander again knowing and not knowing:
"Maybe not, but I'll tell you this: people don't fall in love
with what's right in front of them. People want the dream. What they
can't have. The more unattainable, the more attractive."
And, of course Willow's visible pain is busy breaking the viewer's
heart while that's going on.
3. "But we can't just keep waiting around for another lucky accident
to drop a head in our laps."
I hadn't caught the entendre being doubled there before.
4. Giles' many great lines plus the little skipping bit of business
after the "date" with Jenny is made.
5. "Let's go scare you up a date."
6. That Giles, who we have come to care about, has someone - in
addition to helping remove an ick factor of an adult attractive male
hanging all the time with an unrelated 16 y.o. female
7. Buffy and Angel romantic stuff, but chaste, ending with them
walking off holding hands.
8. Cordelia in a cheerleading outfit. I'm just saying. Plus she's
becoming more a part of the group.
Other bits of business as well, including Xander rescuing Cordy and
later dismissing her when she tries to express gratitude, and maybe
something a bit more.
Nope. Definitely way better than "weak". Not a top top episode, but
well within my memory of yet another fine Season 2 ep. (My favorite
season).
Ken (Brooklyn)
KenM47
>Daniel Damouth wrote:
>
>> But together it
>> > adds up to maybe five minutes, and considering I can't think of
>> > _anything_ else I liked, that's disappointing.
>>
>> What about Cordelia's foray into decency at the end, when she
>> attempted to thank Xander, who completely blew her off while
>> commiserating with Willow about their lack of relationships? And
>> Cordy's so cute with ash on her nose and forehead.
>
>That scene bothered me a little bit because of two possible "meanings"
>of Xander ignoring her and going back to his chat about inability to
>get dates. #1 is that we're making fun of Xander for not seeing what's
>in front of his face with Willow, and I'm getting quite tired of that.
>#2 is that we're making fun of him for not seeing what's in front of
>his face with _Cordelia_, which is dumb, given that he doesn't like her
>at all, they have nothing in common, and her foray into decency is
>likely to be brief. Just because someone is cute and (momentarily)
>being nice to you doesn't make her girlfriend material.
One: You're ignoring again that we were watching the show on a weekly
basis with commercial breaks. The anvils don't hit so hard when spread
out like that.
Two: He's a 17 y.o. horny H.S. kid. He's not necessarily thinking
great love.
>
>I didn't put this in the review since it seemed like too remote a
>possibilty, too jumping-to-unwarranted-conclusions... but that scene
>made me fear that we'll see Xander and Cordelia become allies in a
>coordinated effort to sabotage Buffy and Angel's relationship. I hate
>to prejudge, but on a scale of one to ten, going that route would
>really, really suck.
No comment.
>
>> You liked the "P.S., this is a trap" line last time; how about "added
>> up, it all spells 'duh'" in this one?
>
>Didn't care much, one way or the other. It's all in the timing. Or
>the delivery. Or whatever other intangible thing you want to use to
>explain why some things are funnier than others.
>
>-AOQ
The timing worked for me.
Ken (Brooklyn)
KenM47
As others noted, Buffy's "super" powers wax and wane as plots require.
Try not to get too hung up over it.
Ken (Brooklyn)
burt...@hotmail.com
> shuggie wrote:
>
> > > And then the climactic showdown. I'm starting to think the writer
> > > weren't thinking clearly when they made their hero so powerful and
> > > then didn't have enough stories to support it. Considering that the
> > > last two episodes the average viewer has seen are "Prophecy Girl"
> > > and WSWB, did they really expect us to buy one high school kid
> > > (football player or not), in full slow-lumbering-zombie mode, as a
> > > legitimate threat to a Slayer?
> > >
> >
> > Erm, but the threat is not to the Slayer it's to Cordy. It's not a
> > question of whether Buffy can beat Daryl it's whether she can find
> > Cordy in time to stop the surgery.
>
> But Daryl's manhandling her and tossing her around. Where's all her
> killing-machine prowess?
Killing machine? Buffy's never been anything like that. Just going by
what we see on screen 99% of the time, I'd say that Buffy and the
vampires on the show are no more than 2-3 times stronger than an
average human male.
Buffy's biggest advantage that I can see is the same as a vampire's
biggest advantage - healing factor and sheer endurance. Throw them into
a wall of solid concrete and they bounce right back like a rubber ball.
Without *that*, Buffy and the vampires she fights are total pansies.
The most impressive stuff they do is catching knives out of the air and
the like.... And hey, there are humans in the real world who do that,
and much scarier things....
drifter
> On 01 Feb 2006 16:00:03 -0500, Steve Schaffner
> <s...@phosphorus.broad.mit.edu> wrote:
>
>> George W Harris <gha...@mundsprung.com> writes:
>>
>>> On 01 Feb 2006 13:27:20 -0500, Steve Schaffner
>>> <s...@phosphorus.broad.mit.edu> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Buffy: "Angel?"
>>>> Angel: "Xander."
>>>> Xander: "Angel."
>>>>
>>>> It's well-delivered (and shows that the ending of WSWB did not
>>>> reset everything within the group).
>>>
>>> Doncha *hate* when you mess something
>>> up like that?
>>
>> Like what?
>
> Wasn't it
>
> Buffy: "Angel."
> Angel: "Buffy."
> Xander: "Xander."
I vaguely recall a similar exchange but in this case, George,
I'm afraid you remember it incorrectly. It would've been
good, though.
--
Kel
"I reject your reality, and substitute my own."
Clairel
--I think this episode must have had some special, personal importance
to Greenwalt. I know it was one of the episodes chosen on the season 2
DVDs for the ME people to do a commentary on. Greenwalt was the ME
person who did the commentary. I remember when I first got my DVDs I
wondered why they chose such a boring, inferior episode to comment on.
And Greenwalt's commentary itself bored me. He didn't say a thing that
gave me any insight into why this episode should be such a big deal for
him. But if it was chosen to comment on, I guess it was a big deal to
him.
I just thought there were so many other season 2 episodes that I would
rather have heard a commentary on. Very disappointing.
Clairel
Shuggie
> #2 is that we're making fun of him for not seeing what's in front of
> his face with _Cordelia_, which is dumb, given that he doesn't like her
> at all, they have nothing in common, and her foray into decency is
> likely to be brief.
Doesn't like her at all or protests too much?
--
Shuggie
Mike Zeares
Clairel wrote:
>
> I just thought there were so many other season 2 episodes that I would
> rather have heard a commentary on. Very disappointing.
>
You're talking about "Reptile Boy." This thread is about "Some
Assembly Required," written by Ty King. Just pointing that out.
Anyway, I'd bet RB got a Greenwalt commentary because it was the first
episode that he directed.
And you're right -- the commentary is very boring. It's a good
example of "dvd commentary for the blind," as Tim Minear calls it.
-- Mike Zeares
Steve Schaffner
Arbitrar Of Quality
Shuggie wrote:
> Arbitrar Of Quality <tsm...@wildmail.com> wrote:
>
> > #2 is that we're making fun of him for not seeing what's in front of
> > his face with _Cordelia_, which is dumb, given that he doesn't like her
> > at all, they have nothing in common, and her foray into decency is
> > likely to be brief.
>
> Doesn't like her at all or protests too much?
Well, if I'm writing it, the former. Cordelia is a proxy for
everything Xander hates about high school, plus he finds her annoying
on a personal level. He may or may not also irrationally resent how
she (very indirectly) led to his best friend getting killed.
If the writer is a fan of shitty romantic comedies, then they're two
attractive young people, so what else coulld there possibly be to stand
in the way of a determined script? The fact that they have nothing in
common is just full of zany possibilities, and their hostility is of
course actually a sign of barely-supressed lust since it's impossible
for people to actually dislike each other when they're Meant To Be.
[Can anyone guess one particular genre of TV/movies that AOQ really
hates?]
-AOQ
George W Harris
<s...@phosphorus.broad.mit.edu> wrote:
:"drifter" <ne...@home.net> writes:
:
:> George W Harris wrote:
:> > On 01 Feb 2006 16:00:03 -0500, Steve Schaffner
:> > <s...@phosphorus.broad.mit.edu> wrote:
:> >
:> >> George W Harris <gha...@mundsprung.com> writes:
:> >>
:> >>> On 01 Feb 2006 13:27:20 -0500, Steve Schaffner
:> >>> <s...@phosphorus.broad.mit.edu> wrote:
:> >>>
:> >>>> Buffy: "Angel?"
:> >>>> Angel: "Xander."
:> >>>> Xander: "Angel."
:> >>>>
:> >>>> It's well-delivered (and shows that the ending of WSWB did not
:> >>>> reset everything within the group).
:> >>>
:> >>> Doncha *hate* when you mess something
:> >>> up like that?
:> >>
:> >> Like what?
:> >
:> > Wasn't it
:> >
:> > Buffy: "Angel."
:> > Angel: "Buffy."
:> > Xander: "Xander."
:>
:> I vaguely recall a similar exchange but in this case, George,
:> I'm afraid you remember it incorrectly. It would've been
:> good, though.
:
:The exchange you're thinking of takes place a few episodes later.
My bad. Been a while since I've watched S2.
shuggie
Arbitrar Of Quality wrote:
Fair enough. Though to be fair it's tradition that goes back to
Shakespeare at least.
Clairel
--Okay, I stand corrected: "Reptile Boy" not SAR.
It was a boring commentary on a season 2 episode that I never liked;
"Reptile Boy" and SAR are the two season 2 episodes I like least, so
it's easy for me to conflate them accidentally.
Greenwalt sounded like he was on 'ludes the whole time he was talking
about SAR...er, I mean "Reptile Boy." What a waste of a DVD extra.
(I trust this won't spoil AOQ. What does he care which season 2
episodes I liked least? There's no substance in reading just that
much.)
Clairel
John Briggs
>
> Well, if I'm writing it, the former. Cordelia is a proxy for
> everything Xander hates about high school, plus he finds her annoying
> on a personal level. He may or may not also irrationally resent how
> she (very indirectly) led to his best friend getting killed.
They've known each other all their schooldays. But don't worry about that
"best friend" - he was just a plot device, a "Kirk's girlfriend", with no
backstory, and is never remembered again.
--
John Briggs
David Empey
news:7u23u1duabt4aqt05...@4ax.com:
> As others noted, Buffy's "super" powers wax and wane as plots require.
> Try not to get too hung up over it.
>
>
I like the way Matt Wagner handled this issue, and in fact explicitly
addressed it, in *Mage*: Kevin Matchstick's powers only manifest
when it would "serve the Struggle"--so when he invited someone to
punch him, intending to demonstrate his mystical strength and toughness,
he was rather embarassed at the result.
OTOH, one would think stopping a Frankenstein Monster would be
"serving the struggle" so that doesn't really answer, here.
--
Dave Empey
"This can be easily fixed by taking 17 levels of Ranger."
--Nockermensch
Clairel
David Empey wrote:
> KenM47 <Ken...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in
> news:7u23u1duabt4aqt05...@4ax.com:
>
> > As others noted, Buffy's "super" powers wax and wane as plots require.
> > Try not to get too hung up over it.
> >
> >
>
> I like the way Matt Wagner handled this issue, and in fact explicitly
> addressed it, in *Mage*: Kevin Matchstick's powers only manifest
> when it would "serve the Struggle"--so when he invited someone to
> punch him, intending to demonstrate his mystical strength and toughness,
> he was rather embarassed at the result.
>
> OTOH, one would think stopping a Frankenstein Monster would be
> "serving the struggle" so that doesn't really answer, here.
--I think of Buffy's strength as something like the Hulk's. Anger
fuels it.
You can see this from the episode in which
(AOQ don't read any further -- this is spoilery)
Buffy fights the troll ("Triangle," season 5) and only starts winning
after she gets really pissed off at him because he was scoffing about
Xander's and Anya's relationship; and also from the episode in which
Spike has the Ring of Amara ("Harsh Light of Day") and is winning till
he makes the mistake of lipping off to Buffy about Angel, whereupon she
gets really pissed off, and proceeds to win the fight handily.
To me, anger (or lack thereof) satisfactorily explain Buffy's waxing
and waning strength levels.
Clairel
Arbitrar Of Quality
> They've known each other all their schooldays. But don't worry about that
> "best friend" - he was just a plot device, a "Kirk's girlfriend", with no
> backstory, and is never remembered again.
Figures. One of the reasons I didn't harp on Xander's lack of grieving
is that, honestly, who cares about Jesse? He existed to die as quickly
as possible.
-AOQ
KenM47
He existed to lead the viewer into thinking he was there for more than
to die as quickly as possible.
Ken (Brooklyn)
James Craine
Arbitrar Of Quality wrote:
>
> 10] The entire closing conversation between Buffy and Angel - this is
> the one moment when the episode reaches the kind of quality that I know
> this show is capable of. And although I haven't been hugely
> impressed with Boreanaz's death-before-emoting acting style, he does
> have the uncanny ability to deliver clichés and make them sound
> non-cliché-ish.
What do you think of his acting in 'Bones'.
James Craine
Arbitrar Of Quality wrote:
>
> Well, we made it to ten. Which sounds like a lot of good, especially
> when it's in a big list like that. But together it adds up to maybe
> five minutes, and considering I can't think of _anything_ else I
> liked, that's disappointing. I expect my shows to go to eleven.
> (Actually, I'd certainly hope I'd like more than eleven things, but
> that's not how the pop-culture reference goes.)
>
11) At the end, Xander ignores Cordelia and then tells her
"we're talking here!" (... so shut up, you don't matter.)
was good for me. CC just assumes that anything that she has
to say is important and here are two people who just aren't
interested in her. I liked it.
mariposas rand mair fheal greykitten tomys des anges
James Craine <James...@Hotmail.com> wrote:
whats also is cordelia is making overtures to xander and being ignored
while xander and willow wonder why noone makes overtures to them
arf meow arf - nsa fodder
al qaeda terrorism nuclear bomb iran taliban big brother
if you meet buddha on the usenet killfile him
Arbitrar Of Quality
> 11) At the end, Xander ignores Cordelia and then tells her
> "we're talking here!" (... so shut up, you don't matter.)
> was good for me. CC just assumes that anything that she has
> to say is important and here are two people who just aren't
> interested in her. I liked it.
[Shrug.] I didn't like it because it seemed too much like we were
mocking Xander, and I was tired of the neverending Xander/Willow
non-story. I was also worried at the time that the writers were trying
to set up X/C for either a relationship or an alliance to break up
Buffy and Angel, neither of which filled my heart with glee...
-AOQ