AOQ Review 3-6: "Band Candy"
Arbitrar Of Quality
threads.
BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER
Season Three, Episode 6: "Band Candy"
(or "The Urban Professionals")
Writer: Jane Espenson
Director: Michael Lange
Sometimes my job is easy because the show makes my points for me.
Let's look at this, the second "comedy" episode in a row. The
previous entry, "Homecoming," picks a silly premise and runs with
it, seeing how it impacts our characters, how they react to it, and the
jokes spring from their personalities. The result is good comedy.
"Band Candy" basically takes one joke and expects us to laugh at it
over and over. That's the difference between good and bad comedy,
right there.
As in many of the sillier shows, the first-act banter prior to stuff
going wrong isn't bad. I particularly like "he's the highest
scoring -" "We know. We did the impressed thing already."
Also the first Buffy/Joyce scene is funny with a point, and shows how
far they still have to go before being really comfortable with each
other... observe Joyce's "stop!" at just the flippant mention of
how easy it is to leave Sunnydale. (Good that they have a reason for
at least one of our near-eighteen-year-olds to not be driving.) And
while this episode doesn't do much for most the ongoing stories, they
still exist and are developing (Angel is starting to move and react
like a human again, for instance). So things are moving along okay
until the cheesy melodramatic music cue that accompanies the chocolate
factory scene...
I've never been a fan of stories that're basic enough to have had a
one-sentence pitch. Adults act like teenagers, or a bad parody
thereof. That's it. At first it might draw some smiles - Giles
rockin' out, Snyder using words like "stoked" and desperately
seeking approval (makes sense that he'd have been that kind of
kid...). But sooner or later, maybe early in act three, there comes a
time when the viewer says "okay, we get it. Got anything else for
us?" and the answer is pretty much no. Buffy wasn't the only one
annoyed by the end at the stereotyped behaviors: if you're not going
to contribute anything interesting, get off my TV screen. It doesn't
help that most of the adult actors couldn't act like teens if their
lives depended on it; Head is decent and Sutherland isn't too
offensive, but the background types? Just... no.
The candy only working on adults doesn't work for me. "Maturity"
isn't a simple discrete thing - look at people like Willow, who's
more mature than most adults in some situations and quite childish in
others. So what's the age cutoff, an arbitrary age or an arbitrary
level of "adulthood?" And all teens are portrayed as hard-partyers
(except for the actual teens) here - what would the effect be on
people who acted responsibly when they were kids, and especially on
those who got wilder with age? I think I'm thinking too hard about a
stupid plot device.
To ask Mike Zeares' question: where's the Buffy? I.e. how does all
this affect her or illustrate things about her? Um... she doesn't
like structure and people running her life, but comes to realize that
adults are worthwhile? This ain't high art here. (If anyone has a
more interesting "real" meaning, feel free to share.) I suppose I
should also at least mention the Giles/J. Summers connection, but
honestly, if there are any long-term arcs about Buffy's parental
figures in the future, I'd imagine they'd have to occur in spite of
this show rather than because of it.
Even the weaker episodes of BTVS tend to be part of the big narrative.
One point of interest here is the expansion of the Sunnydale mythology.
Apparently part of running the city is keeping track of the various
demons that need to be appeased. Who or what else might be demanding
tribute? Did previous Mayors know the same things this one does?
There've got to be more stories right there.
It's great to see Robin Sachs back as Ethan, one of my favorite
villains (based mostly on "The Dark Age"). I was kinda worried
they'd forgotten about him. It's not so good to see him mostly
wasted here. He does shine in his few real scenes ("I really don't
know"), and Trick realizes that he's good at holding up his end of
the bargain, so he lives to once again (hopefully) see another show.
The demon looks fairly CGI-ish, but the visuals still aren't bad.
I believe this is the first look at Xander's locker in awhile; it
looks like it's become a shrine to Cordelia. Any more fluking and
he'll have to redecorate.
This Is Really Stupid But I Laughed Anyway moment(s):
- The doctor and friends attempting to sing "Louie Louie."
- "It was like nothing made sense anymore. The things I understood
were gone." And she's talking about the SATs.
I don't want to waste any more of my life on this episode. Let's
wrap it up.
So...
One-sentence summary: One idea stretched awfully thin.
AOQ rating: Weak
[Season Three so far:
1) "Anne" - Decent
2) "Dead Man's Party" - Excellent
3) "Faith, Hope, and Trick" - Good
4) "Beauty And The Beasts" - Decent
5) "Homecoming" - Good
6) "Band Candy" - Weak]
mariposas rand mair fheal greykitten tomys des anges
> "Band Candy" basically takes one joke and expects us to laugh at it
> over and over. That's the difference between good and bad comedy,
> right there.
any episode with ethan getting beaten up is worth watching
> how easy it is to leave Sunnydale. (Good that they have a reason for
> at least one of our near-eighteen-year-olds to not be driving.) And
guns cars occasional alearm clocks computers
buffy doesnt do well with modern technology
> The candy only working on adults doesn't work for me. "Maturity"
they didnt say
xander points out hes eaten a ton of it and he isnt any less mature
and they stare at him until he gets the point
arf meow arf - nsa fodder
al qaeda terrorism nuclear bomb iran taliban big brother
if you meet buddha on the usenet killfile him
Shuggie
> Sometimes my job is easy because the show makes my points for me.
> Let's look at this, the second "comedy" episode in a row. The
> previous entry, "Homecoming," picks a silly premise and runs with
> it, seeing how it impacts our characters, how they react to it, and the
> jokes spring from their personalities. The result is good comedy.
> "Band Candy" basically takes one joke and expects us to laugh at it
> over and over. That's the difference between good and bad comedy,
> right there.
>
Aww just when I thought your sense of humour was adjusting. Oh well. I'm
not going to try to convince you that something you think isn't funny
is. (or vice versa for that matter) so just a few comments:
> It doesn't
> help that most of the adult actors couldn't act like teens if their
> lives depended on it; Head is decent and Sutherland isn't too
> offensive, but the background types? Just... no.
I think Head and Sutherland are both better than decent. There's that
scene where they're listening to records and Joyce is desperately trying
to get Giles to pay attention to her without seeming desperate - that's
a very subtle and well-played moment.
>
> The candy only working on adults doesn't work for me. "Maturity"
> isn't a simple discrete thing - look at people like Willow, who's
> more mature than most adults in some situations and quite childish in
> others. So what's the age cutoff, an arbitrary age or an arbitrary
> level of "adulthood?"
Ah but the nice thing about magic is that you make it up as you go, so
it doesn't have to be a maturity cut-off, it can be an age cut-off.
> And all teens are portrayed as hard-partyers
> (except for the actual teens) here - what would the effect be on
> people who acted responsibly when they were kids, and especially on
> those who got wilder with age?
I think part of what's happening is that adults are getting to
experience what it feels like to be young again and some are making up
for lost time.
> I think I'm thinking too hard about a
> stupid plot device.
>
Except for the stupid part I agree.
> To ask Mike Zeares' question: where's the Buffy? I.e. how does all
> this affect her or illustrate things about her? Um... she doesn't
> like structure and people running her life, but comes to realize that
> adults are worthwhile? This ain't high art here. (If anyone has a
> more interesting "real" meaning, feel free to share.)
It ain't high art it's fun. Jane Espenson, the writer, once summarised
it as being about how there are some things we think we'd like until we
get them. Teenagers imagine that it'd be fun if their parents were more
like them but the reality is worse.
> Even the weaker episodes of BTVS tend to be part of the big narrative.
> One point of interest here is the expansion of the Sunnydale mythology.
> Apparently part of running the city is keeping track of the various
> demons that need to be appeased. Who or what else might be demanding
> tribute? Did previous Mayors know the same things this one does?
Actually this is not about being Mayor of Sunnydale it's about begin
Mayor Wilkins specifically. He has to appease Lurconis because of deals
he's made to get where he was. Previous Mayors may or may not have made
similar deals but we don't know that.
> There've got to be more stories right there.
>
> It's great to see Robin Sachs back as Ethan, one of my favorite
> villains (based mostly on "The Dark Age"). I was kinda worried
> they'd forgotten about him. It's not so good to see him mostly
> wasted here. He does shine in his few real scenes ("I really don't
> know"), and Trick realizes that he's good at holding up his end of
> the bargain, so he lives to once again (hopefully) see another show.
>
Yeah Ethan's fun.
> The demon looks fairly CGI-ish, but the visuals still aren't bad.
>
It was just a big CGI snake, and not a very impressive one.
> This Is Really Stupid But I Laughed Anyway moment(s):
> - The doctor and friends attempting to sing "Louie Louie."
> - "It was like nothing made sense anymore. The things I understood
> were gone." And she's talking about the SATs.
>
You like that joke? That's good since it'll come around again. The 'I
thought they were talking about something supernatural but they're
really talking about something mundane (or vice versa)' is reused at
least a couple of times. And come to think of it was in the teaser for
Witch.
> I don't want to waste any more of my life on this episode. Let's
> wrap it up.
>
>
> AOQ rating: Weak
Harsh but if you can't see the funny then fair I guess.
--
Shuggie
cry...@panix.com
Like BB&B, this is one of my series favorites, and both are
"Excellent" to me. I'm pretty sure my sense of humor is the
opposite of AOQ's! :-)
-Crystal
Don Sample
"Arbitrar Of Quality" <tsm...@wildmail.com> wrote:
> A reminder: Please avoid spoilers for later episodes in these review
> threads.
>
>
> BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER
> Season Three, Episode 6: "Band Candy"
> (Good that they have a reason for
> at least one of our near-eighteen-year-olds to not be driving.)
Cordy and Xander are both licensed drivers. Cordy since sometime in
season 1 (She's taking Driver's Ed in 'Witch' and has her own car in
'Prophecy Girl' and Xander since the start of season 2. (He volunteers
to be "wheel man" and drive everyone to the dance in 'Inca Mummy Girl,'
before he and Ampata become a date.)
>
> I've never been a fan of stories that're basic enough to have had a
> one-sentence pitch. Adults act like teenagers, or a bad parody
> thereof. That's it. At first it might draw some smiles - Giles
> rockin' out, Snyder using words like "stoked" and desperately
> seeking approval (makes sense that he'd have been that kind of
> kid...). But sooner or later, maybe early in act three, there comes a
> time when the viewer says "okay, we get it. Got anything else for
> us?" and the answer is pretty much no. Buffy wasn't the only one
> annoyed by the end at the stereotyped behaviors: if you're not going
> to contribute anything interesting, get off my TV screen. It doesn't
> help that most of the adult actors couldn't act like teens if their
> lives depended on it; Head is decent and Sutherland isn't too
> offensive, but the background types? Just... no.
>
> The candy only working on adults doesn't work for me. "Maturity"
> isn't a simple discrete thing - look at people like Willow, who's
> more mature than most adults in some situations and quite childish in
> others. So what's the age cutoff, an arbitrary age or an arbitrary
> level of "adulthood?" And all teens are portrayed as hard-partyers
> (except for the actual teens) here - what would the effect be on
> people who acted responsibly when they were kids, and especially on
> those who got wilder with age? I think I'm thinking too hard about a
> stupid plot device.
Once again, someone is taking the "they've turned into teenagers" much
too literally. That was an attempt by Buffy to describe what she was
seeing, not literally what was happening. The candy removed
inhibitions, and made people behave irresponsibly. It was more like it
made everyone who ate it drunk. There's no real explanation for why it
didn't affect the kids that way. It was magic. Sometimes there's no
explanation.
>
> I suppose I
> should also at least mention the Giles/J. Summers connection, but
> honestly, if there are any long-term arcs about Buffy's parental
> figures in the future, I'd imagine they'd have to occur in spite of
> this show rather than because of it.
I thought at the time that one of the things that they wanted to
accomplish with this episode was to spike the guns of the Giles/Joyce
shippers. As you say they just erected a big roadblock to them getting
any closer together.
>
> Even the weaker episodes of BTVS tend to be part of the big narrative.
> One point of interest here is the expansion of the Sunnydale mythology.
> Apparently part of running the city is keeping track of the various
> demons that need to be appeased. Who or what else might be demanding
> tribute? Did previous Mayors know the same things this one does?
> There've got to be more stories right there.
One of the first things that occurred to me when I saw Richard Wilkins
III's name was "What happened to Dick Wilkins I and II? Is R.W.III the
first Wilkins to have held the office of Mayor? Maybe R.W. is some sort
of very long lived demon, who pretends to age for a while, and then
disappears for a bit, only to reappear looking young again, and claiming
to be the previous R.W.'s son.
Was the younger R.W a member of the Delta Zeta Kappa fraternity, of
'Reptile Boy' fame? Maybe he had other demonic patrons (such as
Lurconis) that helped him survive the downfall of Machita.
For fun bits: The Mayor looking for his scotch inside a shrunken head.
--
Quando omni flunkus moritati
Visit the Buffy Body Count at <http://homepage.mac.com/dsample/>
Don Sample
"Arbitrar Of Quality" <tsm...@wildmail.com> wrote:
> BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER
> Season Three, Episode 6: "Band Candy"
> (or "The Urban Professionals")
> Writer: Jane Espenson
> Director: Michael Lange
Something I've held off commenting on until this point, but this episode
gives more ammunition to my "The Mayor wanted Buffy in Sunnydale High"
theory.
We're told in FH&T that it was the school board that overruled Snyder,
and in this episode, when Buffy asks Snyder where the candy came from,
he tells her "I don't know. It came through the school board. If you
knew that crowd--" with a bit of a shudder. To me, that says that the
school board is firmly under the control of the Mayor.
The Mayor wants Buffy in the school for now, keeping the lid on the
hellmouth, while he concentrates on whatever it is that he's up to.
hopelessly devoted
Arbitrar Of Quality wrote:
> BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER
> Season Three, Episode 6: "Band Candy"
Yeah! Ethan Rayne! Let the Chaos ensue.
> "Band Candy" basically takes one joke and expects us to laugh at it
> over and over. That's the difference between good and bad comedy,
> right there.
Dispite it's very obvious plotline, I love this ep with a side
splitting passion. What could possibly be more innocent than candy?
Band candy. Add the mere appearance of one Master of chaos.......
The Mayor is looking a bit more menacing with his cabinet of all things
evil "Where'd I put that scotch?"
Him????
> Also the first Buffy/Joyce scene is funny with a point, and shows how
> far they still have to go before being really comfortable with each
> other... observe Joyce's "stop!" at just the flippant mention of
> how easy it is to leave Sunnydale. (Good that they have a reason for
> at least one of our near-eighteen-year-olds to not be driving.)
A runaway who failed the written and "they wouldn't even let you take
the road test", I'm surprised her responsed wasn't more along the lines
of "Are you freakin' nuts?". But, ah at 17 those wires aren't
connected quite yet.
Giles basket ball to the head, Hilarious. Not to mention also being
caught in a bold faced lie about your wareabouts. I did have a little
problem with Joyce actually giving her the alibi "Were you at the
Bronze". The obvious adolescent response, the stop treating me like a
child comeback. Again, Hmmmmm....
> I've never been a fan of stories that're basic enough to have had a
> one-sentence pitch. Adults act like teenagers, or a bad parody
> thereof. That's it. At first it might draw some smiles - Giles
> rockin' out, Snyder using words like "stoked" and desperately
> seeking approval (makes sense that he'd have been that kind of
> kid...). But sooner or later, maybe early in act three, there comes a
> time when the viewer says "okay, we get it. Got anything else for
> us?" and the answer is pretty much no. Buffy wasn't the only one
> annoyed by the end at the stereotyped behaviors: if you're not going
> to contribute anything interesting, get off my TV screen. It doesn't
> help that most of the adult actors couldn't act like teens if their
> lives depended on it; Head is decent and Sutherland isn't too
> offensive, but the background types? Just... no.
>
> The candy only working on adults doesn't work for me. "Maturity"
> isn't a simple discrete thing - look at people like Willow, who's
> more mature than most adults in some situations and quite childish in
> others. So what's the age cutoff, an arbitrary age or an arbitrary
> level of "adulthood?" And all teens are portrayed as hard-partyers
> (except for the actual teens) here - what would the effect be on
> people who acted responsibly when they were kids, and especially on
> those who got wilder with age? I think I'm thinking too hard about a
> stupid plot device.
I'll have to go with the above "Making up for lost time". Also in
stark contrast to Joyce's response in the Witch when asked if she could
go back and relive her glory days. This ep was almost expected.
ASH, I felt was absolutely marvelous, changing everything from language
to stance to facial expressions. He actually looked like a comletely
different person facially.
My favorite moment: Giles kissing Joyce.
Buffy: Mom? Giles?
Giles: Go away. We're busy.
But he doesn't bother to stop kissing her to say it.
Snyder is also great in the complete change. Nice to see the little
horrid, bigoted
rodent-man cut loose. Actually gave me a little sympathy for him and a
greater understanding of why he's such a little snot. If you can't
join 'em, become the principle and make their lives a living hell.
> To ask Mike Zeares' question: where's the Buffy? I.e. how does all
> this affect her or illustrate things about her? Um... she doesn't
> like structure and people running her life, but comes to realize that
> adults are worthwhile? This ain't high art here. (If anyone has a
> more interesting "real" meaning, feel free to share.)
Adults are a necessary evil in the world of growing up.
> Even the weaker episodes of BTVS tend to be part of the big narrative.
> One point of interest here is the expansion of the Sunnydale mythology.
> Apparently part of running the city is keeping track of the various
> demons that need to be appeased. Who or what else might be demanding
> tribute? Did previous Mayors know the same things this one does?
> There've got to be more stories right there.
The first real sense of evill in the last scene with trick "In the
future I'd be careful how many favors you do for me." Spidysense
tingling again.
> It's great to see Robin Sachs back as Ethan, one of my favorite
> villains (based mostly on "The Dark Age"). I was kinda worried
> they'd forgotten about him. It's not so good to see him mostly
> wasted here. He does shine in his few real scenes ("I really don't
> know"), and Trick realizes that he's good at holding up his end of
> the bargain, so he lives to once again (hopefully) see another show.
Ethan is such a wonderful little devil. But not much for the killing.
His reation to Trick's preventative measures shows that although he may
be a little stinker, he's certainly only in it for the "fun".
> The demon looks fairly CGI-ish, but the visuals still aren't bad.
Fairly? Throwback to S1 in a really big snake kind of way. But at
least it wasn't a big CGI Praying Mantis or blob of bubble gum with
eyes.
> I believe this is the first look at Xander's locker in awhile; it
> looks like it's become a shrine to Cordelia. Any more fluking and
> he'll have to redecorate.
>
> This Is Really Stupid But I Laughed Anyway moment(s):
> - The doctor and friends attempting to sing "Louie Louie."
> - "It was like nothing made sense anymore. The things I understood
> were gone." And she's talking about the SATs.
On a musical note, Beck's Sugar High is not one of my favorite scores
for the series.
Them running through the exact same stacks at the candy factory is a
bit obvious.
The scene to scene transitions are becoming very smooth.
DB is no longer looking as lickable as he was last season (female
perspective). And the second Sesame Street blood reveal bugged.
The W/X reaction to almost being caught by Cordelia, perfect!
Buffy is the prime example of why the driving age should be raised to
25 in very specific cases.
Dispite everything, is on my list of favs, even if it as at the bottom.
For no other reason except ASH is absolutely perfect and amazing to
watch.
One Bit Shy
> As in many of the sillier shows, the first-act banter prior to stuff
> going wrong isn't bad. I particularly like "he's the highest
> scoring -" "We know. We did the impressed thing already."
> Also the first Buffy/Joyce scene is funny with a point, and shows how
> far they still have to go before being really comfortable with each
> other... observe Joyce's "stop!" at just the flippant mention of
> how easy it is to leave Sunnydale. (Good that they have a reason for
> at least one of our near-eighteen-year-olds to not be driving.) And
> while this episode doesn't do much for most the ongoing stories, they
> still exist and are developing (Angel is starting to move and react
> like a human again, for instance). So things are moving along okay
> until the cheesy melodramatic music cue that accompanies the chocolate
> factory scene...
Very pretty scene with Angel doing his exercises. When Buffy appears, she's
awfully fetching.
Angel: You're being careful, right?
Buffy: With Scott?
A moderately amusing misunderstanding. But of course the subtext is being
careful with Angel. Is she?
She's now in trouble with both Joyce and Giles because of her sneaking off
to Angel. (Willow also knows Buffy lied to her.)
In spite of this looming trouble, note how upbeat Buffy is generally.
You didn't mention Willow and Xander playing footsie. It's a small thing, I
know, but it worked for me. I sure wanted Willow's leg on mine. There's
also Willow's spooked response to Cordy saying, "You wanna swap?". W/X
moves forward.
One thing I appreciated about the chocolate factory scene is that they
didn't drag out identifying the candy as the cause. We didn't need any more
seemingly mysterious candy fetish.
> I've never been a fan of stories that're basic enough to have had a
> one-sentence pitch. Adults act like teenagers, or a bad parody
> thereof. That's it. At first it might draw some smiles - Giles
> rockin' out, Snyder using words like "stoked" and desperately
> seeking approval (makes sense that he'd have been that kind of
> kid...). But sooner or later, maybe early in act three, there comes a
> time when the viewer says "okay, we get it. Got anything else for
> us?" and the answer is pretty much no. Buffy wasn't the only one
> annoyed by the end at the stereotyped behaviors: if you're not going
> to contribute anything interesting, get off my TV screen. It doesn't
> help that most of the adult actors couldn't act like teens if their
> lives depended on it; Head is decent and Sutherland isn't too
> offensive, but the background types? Just... no.
I enjoyed the ride more than you did, but I agree that a lot of it was
pretty ragged. Weak lines. Weak acting. Unamusing moments. (Like the
drag race.) But a fair amount worked for me too. "Summers - you drive
like a spaz." I could definitely see Snyder talking like that as a kid.
Giles is mostly very good - and that's a lot of the episode. ("No, you
listen to me. I'm you're watcher, so you do what I tell you. So sod off!"
and "You're my slayer. Go knock his teeth down his...") But mostly I
enjoyed Buffy's reaction to it all - from her eager grabbing of the car keys
to being wigged out by Snyder and Giles facing off. I also liked Joyce's
response to Snyder's come on. And Joyce blowing a bubble while her eyes are
bugged out. And so on.
But if it doesn't work for you, it doesn't work for you. Again, comedy is
like that.
>
> The candy only working on adults doesn't work for me. "Maturity"
> isn't a simple discrete thing - look at people like Willow, who's
> more mature than most adults in some situations and quite childish in
> others. So what's the age cutoff, an arbitrary age or an arbitrary
> level of "adulthood?" And all teens are portrayed as hard-partyers
> (except for the actual teens) here - what would the effect be on
> people who acted responsibly when they were kids, and especially on
> those who got wilder with age? I think I'm thinking too hard about a
> stupid plot device.
Probably, yes. But for what it's worth... Willow doesn't eat the candy.
Xander does, though, making for one of the more amusing and telling points
when he realizes how immature he must be normally. The exaggerated behavior
of the adults can be at least partly explained by the need to release the
tension of years of adulthood. Joyce actually says something to that
effect. So the show attempts to address the point. This the first time in
ages that they could let loose, so they go all out.
> To ask Mike Zeares' question: where's the Buffy? I.e. how does all
> this affect her or illustrate things about her? Um... she doesn't
> like structure and people running her life, but comes to realize that
> adults are worthwhile? This ain't high art here. (If anyone has a
> more interesting "real" meaning, feel free to share.)
Actually, I think it eveidences she prefers structure. The running her life
part is just an excuse to cover for the Angel thing - a half lie. But on
the whole I'd rather not go to your question. IMO, first it's a lark. The
jokes rule. (Even if you don't laugh.)
> I suppose I
> should also at least mention the Giles/J. Summers connection, but
> honestly, if there are any long-term arcs about Buffy's parental
> figures in the future, I'd imagine they'd have to occur in spite of
> this show rather than because of it.
Well, you just remember this when Joyce turns up pregnant and they have to
fight their way through vampire anti-abortion protesters.
> The demon looks fairly CGI-ish, but the visuals still aren't bad.
The entire scene in the sewers is, IMO, horrible. After substantial
improvement staging fights all season long, they really threw a clunker in
here. Nothing works. I particularly dislike having a stone container to
hold the babies that just rolls away with no effort.
> One-sentence summary: One idea stretched awfully thin.
>
> AOQ rating: Weak
I won't quibble. It would be a decent from me.
OBS
kenm47
lack of Faith continuity, no sign of her and no metion IIRC.
Like others noted, what strikes some as funny is not always a
universal.
Moved the W/X thing along, brought out that Cordy has layers (I'm
thinking that was someone's real sour note), got Giles and Joyce
together, Ethan made a showing, the Mayor is getting more evil yet
balance that with his day-to-day mayoral duties.
Plus they took a riff on real life school event, that candy crap.
Excellent with a smidgen off the top. Go Jane!
Ken (Brooklyn)
Don Sample
"One Bit Shy" <O...@nomail.sorry> wrote:
> I particularly dislike having a stone container to
> hold the babies that just rolls away with no effort.
What stone? It looked like a box covered in a bit of carpeting to me,
and it was obviously on wheels.
One Bit Shy
news:dsample-6BAA64...@news.giganews.com...
> In article <12166er...@news.supernews.com>,
> "One Bit Shy" <O...@nomail.sorry> wrote:
>
>> I particularly dislike having a stone container to
>> hold the babies that just rolls away with no effort.
>
> What stone? It looked like a box covered in a bit of carpeting to me,
> and it was obviously on wheels.
Looks like it was intended to be stone to me.
OBS
BTR1701
"kenm47" <ken...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> Sorry. The only thing IMO that keeps this from beingExcellent is the
> lack of Faith continuity, no sign of her and no metion IIRC.
Well, the real-world explanation for that was that Eliza Dushku was only
signed for a couple of episodes. She was supposed to be like Kendra--
there and then gone again. But according to Whedon, the combination of
Dushku stealing every scene she was in and the overwhelmingly positive
fan response caused them to drastically change their plans for the
character.
kenm47
Makes sort of sense. A line mention would have been nice, still.
Ken (Brooklyn)
hopelessly devoted
Very good to know. Will also keep this in mind with future viewings.
Kevin
kenm47 wrote:
> Sorry. The only thing IMO that keeps this from beingExcellent is the
> lack of Faith continuity, no sign of her and no metion IIRC.
And perhaps the giant plothole at the center: are we to believe that
all this Mayor->Trick->Ethan->factory->bandgeeks->parents rigamarole is
necessary just so the vamp lackeys can steal newborns from the
hospital? Is the maternity ward guarded at 3am by
flame-thrower-brandishing military? BUT, if you set aside *that*
silliness, the remaining silly is great fun. :)
BTW -- Isn't Faith's sporadic absence only a result of her status as a
secondary actor? I'm not sure how that works, but like Angel (S1),
Master, Spike, Dru, etc., they can't use her in every ep, right?
Agreed that we want to see her though -- her performance really carries
a lot of scenes. (Among other reasons.)
> Plus they took a riff on real life school event, that candy crap.
Yes! We couldn't have a soda machine at my school (only "juice"
<COUGH>), but it was fine for 17 different clubs to sell candy bars &
cookies & lollipops.
> Excellent with a smidgen off the top. Go Jane!
Go Jane, indeed! A bright debut, though it doesn't look good for AOQ's
reception of her signature brand of humor in the long run...
--Kevin
kenm47
Kevin wrote:
> kenm47 wrote:
> > Sorry. The only thing IMO that keeps this from being Excellent is the
> > lack of Faith continuity, no sign of her and no metion IIRC.
>
> And perhaps the giant plothole at the center: are we to believe that
> all this Mayor->Trick->Ethan->factory->bandgeeks->parents rigamarole is
> necessary just so the vamp lackeys can steal newborns from the
> hospital? Is the maternity ward guarded at 3am by
> flame-thrower-brandishing military? BUT, if you set aside *that*
> silliness, the remaining silly is great fun. :)
I pretty much gave up expecting logic from any of these EET's plans
once Angelus wanted to eliminate the world he and his fellow vamps were
having so much fun in. Yes, aside from that. Although they do suggest
that the humans would feel so strongly about babies that they would
have somehow possibly mucked up the plan if not so irresponsible from
the candy.
>
> BTW -- Isn't Faith's sporadic absence only a result of her status as a
> secondary actor? I'm not sure how that works, but like Angel (S1),
> Master, Spike, Dru, etc., they can't use her in every ep, right?
> Agreed that we want to see her though -- her performance really carries
> a lot of scenes. (Among other reasons.)
That's what BTR was saying, plus, he says, Faith was not expected to be
around much longer than Kendra was. I don't know his sources on that.
>
> > Plus they took a riff on real life school event, that candy crap.
>
> Yes! We couldn't have a soda machine at my school (only "juice"
> <COUGH>), but it was fine for 17 different clubs to sell candy bars &
> cookies & lollipops.
>
> > Excellent with a smidgen off the top. Go Jane!
>
> Go Jane, indeed! A bright debut, though it doesn't look good for AOQ's
> reception of her signature brand of humor in the long run...
>
>
> --Kevin
Very true. Maybe it's a delayed thing. He'll laugh tomorrow?
Ken (Brooklyn)
Don Sample
"Kevin" <kl...@ucsc.edu> wrote:
> kenm47 wrote:
> > Sorry. The only thing IMO that keeps this from beingExcellent is the
> > lack of Faith continuity, no sign of her and no metion IIRC.
>
> And perhaps the giant plothole at the center: are we to believe that
> all this Mayor->Trick->Ethan->factory->bandgeeks->parents rigamarole is
> necessary just so the vamp lackeys can steal newborns from the
> hospital? Is the maternity ward guarded at 3am by
> flame-thrower-brandishing military? BUT, if you set aside *that*
> silliness, the remaining silly is great fun. :)
It wasn't to make the stealing of the babies possible. It was to derail
the investigation afterwards. Instead of having a single heinous crime
that the population would demand that the police put all their efforts
into solving, you've got one incident in a whole night of incidents, and
because of the way people were acting, the entire population of the town
would have to be suspects, with very little hope of the police narrowing
it down much.
BTR1701
> kenm47 wrote:
> > Sorry. The only thing IMO that keeps this from beingExcellent is the
> > lack of Faith continuity, no sign of her and no metion IIRC.
>
> And perhaps the giant plothole at the center: are we to believe that
> all this Mayor->Trick->Ethan->factory->bandgeeks->parents rigamarole is
> necessary just so the vamp lackeys can steal newborns from the
> hospital? Is the maternity ward guarded at 3am by
> flame-thrower-brandishing military? BUT, if you set aside *that*
> silliness, the remaining silly is great fun. :)
>
> BTW -- Isn't Faith's sporadic absence only a result of her status as a
> secondary actor? I'm not sure how that works, but like Angel (S1),
> Master, Spike, Dru, etc., they can't use her in every ep, right?
They could have used her in as many episodes as they wanted to. The
difference between a guest star and a regular cast member is that
regular cast gets paid whether they are in the episode or not. Guest
stars only get paid for the episodes in which they appear.
Mike Zeares
Arbitrar Of Quality wrote:
>
> To ask Mike Zeares' question: where's the Buffy? I.e. how does all
> this affect her or illustrate things about her?
I just want to point out that that is actually Joss Whedon's question.
As for the answer -- *shrug*. The whole thing looks like just an
excuse to get Giles and Joyce together. Not that I'm accusing Jane
Espenson of writing bad fanfic or anything. Ok, I am.
> I believe this is the first look at Xander's locker in awhile; it
> looks like it's become a shrine to Cordelia. Any more fluking and
> he'll have to redecorate.
Heh.
> I don't want to waste any more of my life on this episode. Let's
> wrap it up.
That's about how I feel about it. It has its moments, but overall it's
pretty lackluster. I've never felt the love for this episode that a
lot of people have.
-- Mike Zeares
Shuggie
>
> Arbitrar Of Quality wrote:
>>
>> To ask Mike Zeares' question: where's the Buffy? I.e. how does all
>> this affect her or illustrate things about her?
>
> I just want to point out that that is actually Joss Whedon's question.
> As for the answer -- *shrug*. The whole thing looks like just an
> excuse to get Giles and Joyce together. Not that I'm accusing Jane
> Espenson of writing bad fanfic or anything. Ok, I am.
>
Clearly you've only read really really good fanfic.
OK so I like Band Candy. But even if I thought it was the worst of the
worst dreck that ever got shown on TV it would still be in the top 5% of
fanfic.
vague disclaimer
BTR1701 <btr...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
So they couldn't because they couldn't afford it. Shows have budgets you
know
--
A vague disclaimer is nobody's friend
KenM47
I have to admit I am really surprised when an episode I really enjoyed
gets as much slamming as this one did from folks I otherwise consider
intelligent and with worthwhile things to say. Makes me doubt my own
couch potato credentials.
Weird.
Ken (Brooklyn)
Apteryx
news:1142090375....@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com...
>A reminder: Please avoid spoilers for later episodes in these review
> threads.
>
>
> BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER
> Season Three, Episode 6: "Band Candy"
> (or "The Urban Professionals")
> Writer: Jane Espenson
> Director: Michael Lange
>
> The candy only working on adults doesn't work for me. "Maturity"
> isn't a simple discrete thing - look at people like Willow, who's
> more mature than most adults in some situations and quite childish in
> others. So what's the age cutoff, an arbitrary age or an arbitrary
> level of "adulthood?" And all teens are portrayed as hard-partyers
> (except for the actual teens) here - what would the effect be on
> people who acted responsibly when they were kids, and especially on
> those who got wilder with age?
They stayed at home and you didn't see them?
> To ask Mike Zeares' question: where's the Buffy? I.e. how does all
> this affect her or illustrate things about her? Um... she doesn't
> like structure and people running her life, but comes to realize that
> adults are worthwhile?
Or that for the first time she faces the grim reality that at some time she
is going to have to rely on her judgment (shaky as it often is at the
moment) rather than being guided by Giles and Joyce? But clearly having some
fun is the main point here. What's not to like about Giles and Joyce, and
especially their embarassment at the end when Buffy notes that at least she
got to them before they actually DID anything?
> This Is Really Stupid But I Laughed Anyway moment(s):
> - The doctor and friends attempting to sing "Louie Louie."
> - "It was like nothing made sense anymore. The things I understood
> were gone." And she's talking about the SATs.
A great line and perfectly delivered. And (until the punch line) appearing
to refer Buffy growing up.
> I don't want to waste any more of my life on this episode. Let's
> wrap it up.
>
>
> So...
>
> One-sentence summary: One idea stretched awfully thin.
>
> AOQ rating: Weak
After your BBB review I'd have been surprised if you had rated it any
higher. Almost Ted and DMP surprised.
Going by the conversion factor I have elected to apply between my numerical
ratings and your verbal ones, Band Candy is only "Good" for me. The
conversion rate only allows for 12 Excellent episodes and 5 Excellent+ (or
Suburb) ones. But this is so close to Excellent that it deserves to be at
least Good++ . My ranking for it has yo-yoed over the years more than most
episodes do. It has been in my Top Ten, and has also been as low as the high
30's. Currently it seems to be settling into the middle of that range, at
22nd best BtVs episode, 4th best in Season 3
--
Apteryx
Bill Reid
One Bit Shy <O...@nomail.sorry> wrote in message
news:12166er...@news.supernews.com...
>
> I enjoyed the ride more than you did, but I agree that a lot of it was
> pretty ragged. Weak lines. Weak acting. Unamusing moments. (Like the
> drag race.)
But did you notice what cars they were racing?
VOLVO STATION WAGONS!!!
I LOVE a good "car joke". To me, it's hilarious that Giles drives
a Citroen DS9, that's good sophisticated "car humor". I like the humor
of the car that Xander borrows from his uncle in an upcoming
episode, the whole schtick surrounding the car, and future Giles' cars.
But not everybody appreciates a good car joke, because they're just
like Hitler, who drove a Mercedes...
By the way, I would like to point out one small detail that most
people miss in the drag racing scene. A lot of people conclude
that Buffy was not at fault for the accident because the other
drivers were racing. But if you look closely, she clearly drives
right through a stop sign into their path...
---
William Ernest Reid
One Bit Shy
news:bgIQf.11159$8w2....@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
>
> One Bit Shy <O...@nomail.sorry> wrote in message
> news:12166er...@news.supernews.com...
>>
>> I enjoyed the ride more than you did, but I agree that a lot of it was
>> pretty ragged. Weak lines. Weak acting. Unamusing moments. (Like the
>> drag race.)
>
> But did you notice what cars they were racing?
>
> VOLVO STATION WAGONS!!!
>
> I LOVE a good "car joke".
Heh-heh. Ok. Just goes to show how different people take jokes.
> To me, it's hilarious that Giles drives
> a Citroen DS9, that's good sophisticated "car humor".
I'm on board with that one. Also reminds me of an old college professor I
had who drove one of them.
> I like the humor
> of the car that Xander borrows from his uncle in an upcoming
> episode, the whole schtick surrounding the car, and future Giles' cars.
Both of those too. (That gal who loved Xander's car - and then turns out to
really love the car and bore poor Xander to tears over it.)
> But not everybody appreciates a good car joke, because they're just
> like Hitler, who drove a Mercedes...
>
> By the way, I would like to point out one small detail that most
> people miss in the drag racing scene. A lot of people conclude
> that Buffy was not at fault for the accident because the other
> drivers were racing. But if you look closely, she clearly drives
> right through a stop sign into their path...
Uh, sorry. You probably saw "STOP" on the pavement, but there's a green
light shown for her too.
Also, the car that hit them wasn't one of the racers.
OBS
BTR1701
vague disclaimer <l64o...@dea.spamcon.org> wrote:
How do you know they couldn't afford it?
Don Sample
"Bill Reid" <horme...@happyhealthy.net> wrote:
> By the way, I would like to point out one small detail that most
> people miss in the drag racing scene. A lot of people conclude
> that Buffy was not at fault for the accident because the other
> drivers were racing. But if you look closely, she clearly drives
> right through a stop sign into their path...
Uh, no. She was going through a green light. The guy who hit her ran
the red.
Mel
kenm47 wrote:
> Kevin wrote:
>
>>kenm47 wrote:
>>
>>>Sorry. The only thing IMO that keeps this from being Excellent is the
>>>lack of Faith continuity, no sign of her and no metion IIRC.
>>
>>And perhaps the giant plothole at the center: are we to believe that
>>all this Mayor->Trick->Ethan->factory->bandgeeks->parents rigamarole is
>>necessary just so the vamp lackeys can steal newborns from the
>>hospital? Is the maternity ward guarded at 3am by
>>flame-thrower-brandishing military? BUT, if you set aside *that*
>>silliness, the remaining silly is great fun. :)
>
>
> I pretty much gave up expecting logic from any of these EET's plans
> once Angelus wanted to eliminate the world he and his fellow vamps were
> having so much fun in. Yes, aside from that. Although they do suggest
> that the humans would feel so strongly about babies that they would
> have somehow possibly mucked up the plan if not so irresponsible from
> the candy.
I don't think there was supposed to be logic in Angelus' decision to
send the world to hell. His reason, however, was to send _Buffy_ to hell
as repayment (in his mind) for her putting him through hell. She made
him feel human and he couldn't stand it and when trying to do to her
what he did to Dru didn't seem to be working, his insanity took over and
he decided to end the world.
Xvaqn yvxr ng gur raq bs frnfba fvk jura Jvyybj'f cnva jnf fb terng gung
fur'q engure qrfgebl gur jbeyq guna unir gb srry gung zhpu cnva nal zber.
Or maybe he just got bored....
Mel
>
>snip the rest<
Arbitrar Of Quality
> Well, the real-world explanation for that was that Eliza Dushku was only
> signed for a couple of episodes. She was supposed to be like Kendra--
> there and then gone again. But according to Whedon, the combination of
> Dushku stealing every scene she was in and the overwhelmingly positive
> fan response caused them to drastically change their plans for the
> character.
If that's true, it's cool. I admire the ability to rewrite on the fly
while sticking to an overall plan. But didn't they usually film a
whole bunch of episodes before knowing what the fan response would be?
-AOQ
Arbitrar Of Quality
> Mike Zeares <mze...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> > Arbitrar Of Quality wrote:
> >>
> >> To ask Mike Zeares' question: where's the Buffy? I.e. how does all
> >> this affect her or illustrate things about her?
> >
> > I just want to point out that that is actually Joss Whedon's question.
Yeah, I know, but you're the one who brings it into these threads the
most often.
> > As for the answer -- *shrug*. The whole thing looks like just an
> > excuse to get Giles and Joyce together. Not that I'm accusing Jane
> > Espenson of writing bad fanfic or anything. Ok, I am.
> >
>
> Clearly you've only read really really good fanfic.
"Good fanfic" is a contradiction in terms. (Okay, I don't quite
believe that, but almost.)
But that's a fun analogy. I'm with Mike: "Band Candy" is like a fanfic
that mimics the tropes of the show well enough to be tolerable, and
even has an interesting moment or three, but one's time could be much
better spent doing actual reading.
-AOQ
Arbitrar Of Quality
> I have to admit I am really surprised when an episode I really enjoyed
> gets as much slamming as this one did from folks I otherwise consider
> intelligent and with worthwhile things to say. Makes me doubt my own
> couch potato credentials.
>
> Weird.
Yeah, but if your opinions are fully formed, loudly proclaim them to
the world. Even if they're wrong.
-AOQ
~this is especially true if you like something that others dislike,
since we all prefer to find reasons to like the show more rather than
less~
Don Sample
I think that Faith was probably planned for a fairly wide arc. They
wound up keeping her around even longer than they originally planned
though. (Like the original plan for Spike was to only last about half
of season 2. Not sure if he was supposed to die in 'What's My Line' or
if they were going to have Angel take him out, the way Spike took out
the Annoying One.)
vague disclaimer
BTR1701 <btr...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
Orpnhfr gung'f ubj vg jbexf. Gur ohqtrg jbhyq or frg ng gur ortvaavat bs
gur frnfba, vapyhqvat pnfg pbfgf. Erzrzore ubj Tenir jnf pbzcebzvfrq
orpnhfr WJ oyrj fb zhpu bs gur ohqtrg ba BZJS (cre gur pbzzragnel)?
Naq fvapr gur Qnex Fynlre nep jnf gur cevapvcyr nep sbe gur frnfba...
George W Harris
wrote:
:One thing I appreciated about the chocolate factory scene is that they
:didn't drag out identifying the candy as the cause. We didn't need any more
:seemingly mysterious candy fetish.
:
I very much liked the Rayne-Trick interaction.
"How did you know he...?" "I didn't, but now I know no
one else will."
--
"It is always a simple matter to drag people along whether it is a
democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist
dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the
bidding of the leaders. This is easy. All you have to do is tell them
they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of
patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in every
country."
-Hermann Goering
George W. Harris For actual email address, replace each 'u' with an 'i'.
Mike Zeares
> > excuse to get Giles and Joyce together. Not that I'm accusing Jane
> > Espenson of writing bad fanfic or anything. Ok, I am.
> >
>
> Clearly you've only read really really good fanfic.
Oh, if only that were true. At least "Band Candy" didn't have Joyce
telling Giles, "I'm your fuckslutwhore!"
-- Mike Zeares (that's actually from a Giles/Buffy fic)
BTR1701
vague disclaimer <l64o...@dea.spamcon.org> wrote:
Jura gur frnfba jnf svefg orvat cynaarq bhg, gurl unq ab cynaf gb hfr
Qhfuxh sbe zber guna gjb be guerr rcvfbqrf. Boivbhfyl gung punatrq
fbzrjurer nybat gur jnl fb boivbhfyl zbarl sbe guvatf yvxr thrfg pnfg vf
syhvq.
BTR1701
"Arbitrar Of Quality" <tsm...@wildmail.com> wrote:
Some shows do that but Buffy was pretty linear. They didn't shoot bits
and pieces of several episodes at once.
Arbitrar Of Quality
> > But didn't they usually film a
> > whole bunch of episodes before knowing what the fan response would be?
>
> Some shows do that but Buffy was pretty linear. They didn't shoot bits
> and pieces of several episodes at once.
Except in S1, which everyone says was shot out of order and was
entriely complete by the time it aired. When did things change?
-AOQ
Arbitrar Of Quality
> (Like the original plan for Spike was to only last about half
> of season 2. Not sure if he was supposed to die in 'What's My Line' or
> if they were going to have Angel take him out, the way Spike took out
> the Annoying One.)
Now that's interesting.
-AOQ
BTR1701
"Arbitrar Of Quality" <tsm...@wildmail.com> wrote:
I imagine the first season was unique because of its status as a
mid-season replacement for some other show.
But even then, the episodes may have been shot out of order but as far
as I know, they still shot them one at a time.
Don Sample
"Arbitrar Of Quality" <tsm...@wildmail.com> wrote:
When they got renewed for an entire second season.
When they were doing season 1, they had no idea when it would be shown.
And it wasn't really shot out of sequence. When they were done, they
had the time (and budget left) to go back and reshoot a couple of items
for the first episode.
Mike Zeares
Correction: S1 wasn't shot out of order. It was just all "in the can"
before it actually aired, which allowed them to reshoot some scenes and
add some others before the premiere. The only examples of this I can
think of are from WTTH/Harvest.
The show started shooting in July, or possibly August (I know their
"break" ended in July), so a number of eps would be done before a
season started airing, depending on the premiere date (one ep every 8
days). The Buffy writers wouldn't have had any idea of the audience's
reaction to Faith in FH&T when they were writing the next few eps, for
example. Once the season started airing, they could gauge the
audience's reaction and make adjustments later in the season. They
took a break some time in November, I think, and then started shooting
the second half in December. I'm doing this from hazy memories of
comments by the Buffy writers. Anyway, the upshot is that the shooting
schedule did not match the airing schedule, which seems to be a common
misconception. They actually wrapped up shooting in early April, for
example. This may be the standard model for network shows.
-- Mike Zeares
vague disclaimer
BTR1701 <btr...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
Zl haqrefgnaqvat vf gung fur jnf obbxrq sbe nebhaq 10 rcvfbqrf naq jnf
gb qvr ng gur raq bs gur Qnex Fynlre nep (bar bs gur znwbe nepf bs gur
frnfba).
Gur ovttrfg punatr va gur frnfba sebz jung jnf cynaarq jnf Ze Gevpx
orvat qbjatenqrq n gnq - juvpu whfg vaibyirq erneenatvat rkvfgvat
erfbheprf, abg nqqvat n zhygv-rcvfbqr fnynel.
Eric Hunter
The Special Features on Disc 3 (which are spoiler-laden)
suggest that it was more a matter of Joss and the
production team being so impressed with Eliza's
performance that they decided to expand her role.
FH&T was probably shown before they finished
the all of the season, so the fact that the fan
reaction was as positive as Joss's may have
contributed to her getting more screen time, but
I suspect it was more like Julie Benz(Darla), who
was originally supposed to be dusted by the Holy
Water in "The Harvest", but she was too good to
not use longer.
Eric.
--
David E. Milligan
"Mike Zeares" <mze...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1142131230.0...@z34g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
>
> Shuggie wrote:
>> Mike Zeares <mze...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > As for the answer -- *shrug*. The whole thing looks like just an
>> > excuse to get Giles and Joyce together. Not that I'm accusing Jane
>> > Espenson of writing bad fanfic or anything. Ok, I am.
>> >
>>
>> Clearly you've only read really really good fanfic.
>
> Oh, if only that were true. At least "Band Candy" didn't have Joyce
> telling Giles, "I'm your fuckslutwhore!"
>
David