AOQ Review 7-12: "Potential"

Arbitrar Of Quality

unread,

Sep 26, 2006, 7:56:19 PM9/26/06

to

A reminder: Please avoid spoilers for later episodes in these review
threads.

BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER
Season Seven, Episode 12: "Potential"
(or "This one goes out to the one I've left behind")
Writer: Rebecca Rand Kirshner
Director: James A. Contner

Dawn The Vampire Slayer-To-Be, huh? Once the spell begins to
"fail," it becomes increasingly clear to the viewer that the little
glowy light is going to (apparently) settle on her. It feels like
it's about time, at least to everyone except the potential Slayer in
question. Dawn was a central plot device of S5, and has been drifting
since the ball of energy origins stopped being relevant. In S6 she was
inconsistently portrayed and important primarily for her effect on her
sister. This year she's become an actual character of note, but
there've been few Buffy/Dawn interactions worth mentioning (and
really, what more is there to say?). So after all the time she's
spent wanting to get involved in the supernatural, it seems right for
her to have greatness or deadness or both thrust upon her. The staging
during her first appearance nicely re-establishes this; lurking around
the stairs, looking in on the Slayer crowd from the outside and making
her presence ignored when correcting Buffy on the pronunciation of
Chaka Kahn.

There are a few wrinkles in all the extended early D/W/X/A/Andr scenes
hanging around the foyer. There's Dawn being overwhelmed by how this
will change everything, clearly too shocked to be pleased. Her friends
are intimately aware of all the bad that comes along with this good,
yet they're trying to make her happy and excited, by force if
necessary. Not the best response, really. I like the delivery on the
repeated "too much for my head" lines. Also, Joyce's words from
CWDP are still a weight on Bitty Buffy that she hasn't told anyone
about. In support of what I'm saying about the B/D relationship
being less central this season, notice that we never even find out how
Buffy would've reacted. It's an understandable omission since
it's a one-episode storyline, and it's hard to say how much, if at
all, of a missed opportunity it is. Dawn does reference the family
connection a few times and picks up a few Buffy-esque gestures like the
head movements during her first meeting with Amanda on the sidewalk.

Speaking of this not at all related character, Amanda from "Help"
has another session with Buffy so as to remind the audience who she is.
I was a little annoyed here at Buffy's tendency, as some have
pointed out, to think that everything's about her. In moments like
these, all other issues that anyone else may be having are relevant to
her only as a mirror or contrast to whatever's on her mind. Granted,
the world does kinda revolve around her, issues and all. But it makes
her quite a bad counselor.

There's time for somewhat quieter stories like this when there's a
lull in the main plot (I noticed Giles isn't in this one). Ongoing
training for those already Chosen involves getting a little help from
Spike, all fresh and redeemed now. Funny how these things go. The
first scene with the MC5 is a pleasant little moment, between "cuz
the black chick always gets it first?" "I have learned a valuable
lesson of some sort. Ow!" and "that's hot." The bar is all
right too, since it has the show's best silly one-note character,
Clem, in it - S7 had been sorely lacking in the Clem department. The
parts with this crowd afterward, though? EVS. The series may still
remember that they're just side characters and use the scenes to
focus on Buffy, but hearing her wit and wisdom about what it means to
be the Slayer, again, gets less interesting the longer it goes on. Her
words seem mainly designed as a complement to the action interspersed
with it from the A-story, but despite their obvious relevance, it's
not a very effective device. The loud and pretentious dialogue
distracts from and actively hurts Dawn's parts a little instead of
enhancing them. At least Buffy and Spike leaving the girls in a locked
room with a vamp is a little more memorable.

My other biggest problem with "Potential" is that it feels that it
needs to bring its main character down excessively in order to elevate
her at the end. Also, on a related topic, there's a difference that
the writers don't seem to have grasped between being reckless and
kinda dumb and being a complete fucking moron. Once the vampire is
mentioned, it's clear that Dawn's going to go after it on her own.
That's reckless and kinda dumb. Dawn has been doing reckless and
kinda dumb since being introduced, and it's getting overdone; I
rolled my eyes. But then later it's revealed that she charged in,
with a supposed helpless innocent in tow, without a weapon of any kind
(and stakes aren't hard to come by in this town; break one off from a
fence on the walk to school or something), something that a
full-fledged Slayer might hesitate to do, let alone a trainee.
Congratulations, Dawn, and welcome to the land of the complete fucking
morons. I say the "I don't know what I'm doing here" story
would've been more poignant had she displayed some level of common
sense, and then discovered that it didn't matter, she was still a
lost cause in the mystical world.

When the 'Bringers first went after Amanda instead, I thought for a
second that Dawn would take advantage of the chance to save her own
skin; that might have been interesting. Instead, it turns out to be
the mechanism for her redemption as she does a reasonably impressive
job of quickly realizing what's going on, seeing what has to be done,
and making it happen without any ego-driven hesitation. She has the
right sense of quietly accepting that this is right. The writing
misdirect involved in having Amanda at exactly the right place at the
right time to mislead everyone seems fairly contrived, but not a major
problem for me.

Andrew's starting to get a little tiresome with the one extended joke
over and over (for those who haven't gotten it, he's totally
incapable of shutting up about geeky things. Get it?), but some of the
others' reactions are still pretty funny. The way their scenes are
played makes me wonder whether the show is actually considering hooking
him up with Dawn, and I have no idea how to feel about that.

Did Anya keep what she and Giles learned last episode to herself?

This Is Really Stupid But I Laughed Anyway moment(s):
- "It's not loaded." "That's always the lead quote under the
headline "Household Crossbow Accident Claims Teen"
- "I'm fairly sure that's the smell of a hardboiled egg being thrown
into a fire"
- "Makes sense, I guess. Remember that thing about they share the
same blood or whatever?" "Yeah, I never got that"
- "I'll pay you to talk about _Star Wars_ again"

So, action over. the episode is cruising along to a close, and I'm
mentally assigning it a mid-to-high Decent rating. Then there's a
final exchange between Dawn and Buffy, which is a few sentences long,
without much connection. Xander, on the other hand, is the one who has
a better sense of what she's gone through. His mouth has saved the
world, and he's got another speech saved up for this scene, and
it's a great one, one of the best the show has ever produced. He
manages to spend half of the time talking about himself, but with a
purpose, driving home the camaraderie with Dawn and the isolation of
those who're always going to be a little outside. Lines like "I
see more than anybody realizes" seem a little egocentric, but they
also seem extremely Xander. And while there's some
retrospective-on-the-series function, the end result is about
convincing Dawn that she's appreciated, and at least to someone,
extraordinary. I'm guessing at least during the first take or two,
Trachtenberg didn't have to fake any tears, since it would take a
heart harder than stone to be unmoved. With or without a cape,
superpowers don't really suit these two: whether they like it or not,
they were born to be the normal ones. And one could argue that the
show needs to represent the normals' perspective sometimes.

I almost never do this kind of songfic crap, so can I be forgiven the
indulgence if I tweak a few lyrics for the occasion?

Here's the last toast of the evening, here's to those who still believe
All the normals will be special, all the hidden shall be seen
Here's to long friendships rewarded, may your losses all be small
Here's to the normals - bless them all

So...

One-sentence summary: Uneven episode, but some highlight moments for a
couple characters who're too often unevenly written.

AOQ rating: Good

[Season Seven so far:
1) "Lessons" - Good
2) "Beneath You" - Decent
3) "Same Time, Same Place" - Excellent
4) "Help" - Good
5) "Selfless" - SUPERLATIVE
6) "Him" - Bad
7) "Conversations With Dead People" - Good
8) "Sleeper" - Decent
9) "Never Leave Me" - Good
10) "Bring On The Night" - Decent
11) "Showtime" - Good
12) "Potential" - Good]

Rowan Hawthorn

unread,

Sep 26, 2006, 8:28:28 PM9/26/06

to

Arbitrar Of Quality wrote:
> A reminder: Please avoid spoilers for later episodes in these review
> threads.
>
>
> BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER
> Season Seven, Episode 12: "Potential"
> (or "This one goes out to the one I've left behind")
> Writer: Rebecca Rand Kirshner
> Director: James A. Contner
>
> Dawn The Vampire Slayer-To-Be, huh? Once the spell begins to
> "fail," it becomes increasingly clear to the viewer that the little
> glowy light is going to (apparently) settle on her. It feels like
> it's about time, at least to everyone except the potential Slayer in
> question. Dawn was a central plot device of S5, and has been drifting
> since the ball of energy origins stopped being relevant. In S6 she was
> inconsistently portrayed and important primarily for her effect on her
> sister. This year she's become an actual character of note, but
> there've been few Buffy/Dawn interactions worth mentioning (and
> really, what more is there to say?). So after all the time she's
> spent wanting to get involved in the supernatural, it seems right for
> her to have greatness or deadness or both thrust upon her. The staging
> during her first appearance nicely re-establishes this; lurking around
> the stairs, looking in on the Slayer crowd from the outside and making
> her presence ignored when correcting Buffy on the pronunciation of
> Chaka Kahn.

Once again, Dawn's being left on the outside.

>
> My other biggest problem with "Potential" is that it feels that it
> needs to bring its main character down excessively in order to elevate
> her at the end. Also, on a related topic, there's a difference that
> the writers don't seem to have grasped between being reckless and
> kinda dumb and being a complete fucking moron. Once the vampire is
> mentioned, it's clear that Dawn's going to go after it on her own.
> That's reckless and kinda dumb. Dawn has been doing reckless and
> kinda dumb since being introduced, and it's getting overdone; I
> rolled my eyes. But then later it's revealed that she charged in,
> with a supposed helpless innocent in tow, without a weapon of any kind
> (and stakes aren't hard to come by in this town; break one off from a
> fence on the walk to school or something), something that a
> full-fledged Slayer might hesitate to do, let alone a trainee.
> Congratulations, Dawn, and welcome to the land of the complete fucking
> morons. I say the "I don't know what I'm doing here" story
> would've been more poignant had she displayed some level of common
> sense, and then discovered that it didn't matter, she was still a
> lost cause in the mystical world.

Dawn screwed up big time, but notice that she's pretty darn good at
improvising, and she *never quits*.

> Andrew's starting to get a little tiresome with the one extended joke
> over and over (for those who haven't gotten it, he's totally
> incapable of shutting up about geeky things. Get it?), but some of the
> others' reactions are still pretty funny. The way their scenes are
> played makes me wonder whether the show is actually considering hooking
> him up with Dawn, and I have no idea how to feel about that.

Hope they keep lots of hot water handy?

>
> So, action over. the episode is cruising along to a close, and I'm
> mentally assigning it a mid-to-high Decent rating. Then there's a
> final exchange between Dawn and Buffy, which is a few sentences long,
> without much connection. Xander, on the other hand, is the one who has
> a better sense of what she's gone through. His mouth has saved the
> world, and he's got another speech saved up for this scene, and
> it's a great one, one of the best the show has ever produced. He
> manages to spend half of the time talking about himself, but with a
> purpose, driving home the camaraderie with Dawn and the isolation of
> those who're always going to be a little outside. Lines like "I
> see more than anybody realizes" seem a little egocentric, but they
> also seem extremely Xander.

Of course, to a certain extent, that's also *true*. Xander has his
blind spots, but often that's simply because he doesn't *want* to see.

> And while there's some
> retrospective-on-the-series function, the end result is about
> convincing Dawn that she's appreciated, and at least to someone,
> extraordinary. I'm guessing at least during the first take or two,
> Trachtenberg didn't have to fake any tears, since it would take a
> heart harder than stone to be unmoved. With or without a cape,
> superpowers don't really suit these two: whether they like it or not,
> they were born to be the normal ones. And one could argue that the
> show needs to represent the normals' perspective sometimes.
>
> I almost never do this kind of songfic crap, so can I be forgiven the
> indulgence if I tweak a few lyrics for the occasion?

Sure, why not?

>
> Here's the last toast of the evening, here's to those who still believe
> All the normals will be special, all the hidden shall be seen
> Here's to long friendships rewarded, may your losses all be small
> Here's to the normals - bless them all
>
>
> So...
>
> One-sentence summary: Uneven episode, but some highlight moments for a
> couple characters who're too often unevenly written.
>
> AOQ rating: Good

Yep, pretty much...

--
Rowan Hawthorn

"Occasionally, I'm callous and strange." - Willow Rosenberg, "Buffy the
Vampire Slayer"

MBangel10 (Melissa)

unread,

Sep 26, 2006, 8:21:43 PM9/26/06

to

Arbitrar Of Quality wrote:
> A reminder: Please avoid spoilers for later episodes in these review
> threads.
>
>
> BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER
> Season Seven, Episode 12: "Potential"
> (or "This one goes out to the one I've left behind")
> Writer: Rebecca Rand Kirshner
> Director: James A. Contner

I really enjoyed this episode but it got a good by default the moment I
noticed the Pearl Jam poster hanging up in the crypt during the vampire
training session (This falls into the meaningless but "hey, that's cool"
observation category).

Oh and yes, I'm still here reading along but I've been in lurker mode
lately and I've gotta stop that since you're half way through the final
season.

>
<snip>

>
> Speaking of this not at all related character, Amanda from "Help"
> has another session with Buffy so as to remind the audience who she is.
> I was a little annoyed here at Buffy's tendency, as some have
> pointed out, to think that everything's about her. In moments like
> these, all other issues that anyone else may be having are relevant to
> her only as a mirror or contrast to whatever's on her mind. Granted,
> the world does kinda revolve around her, issues and all. But it makes
> her quite a bad counselor.
>

I'm still amused that Buffy actually IS a counselor.

<snip>

>
> My other biggest problem with "Potential" is that it feels that it
> needs to bring its main character down excessively in order to elevate
> her at the end. Also, on a related topic, there's a difference that
> the writers don't seem to have grasped between being reckless and
> kinda dumb and being a complete fucking moron. Once the vampire is
> mentioned, it's clear that Dawn's going to go after it on her own.
> That's reckless and kinda dumb. Dawn has been doing reckless and
> kinda dumb since being introduced, and it's getting overdone; I
> rolled my eyes. But then later it's revealed that she charged in,
> with a supposed helpless innocent in tow, without a weapon of any kind
> (and stakes aren't hard to come by in this town; break one off from a
> fence on the walk to school or something), something that a
> full-fledged Slayer might hesitate to do, let alone a trainee.
> Congratulations, Dawn, and welcome to the land of the complete fucking
> morons. I say the "I don't know what I'm doing here" story
> would've been more poignant had she displayed some level of common
> sense, and then discovered that it didn't matter, she was still a
> lost cause in the mystical world.

I think she was all hopped up on "I'm a Potential!!!" endorphins, but
yes, going against a vampire without thinking about bringing an actual
weapon to fight it with is a tad bit moronic.

<snip>

>
> So, action over. the episode is cruising along to a close, and I'm
> mentally assigning it a mid-to-high Decent rating. Then there's a
> final exchange between Dawn and Buffy, which is a few sentences long,
> without much connection. Xander, on the other hand, is the one who has
> a better sense of what she's gone through. His mouth has saved the
> world, and he's got another speech saved up for this scene, and
> it's a great one, one of the best the show has ever produced. He
> manages to spend half of the time talking about himself, but with a
> purpose, driving home the camaraderie with Dawn and the isolation of
> those who're always going to be a little outside. Lines like "I
> see more than anybody realizes" seem a little egocentric, but they
> also seem extremely Xander. And while there's some
> retrospective-on-the-series function, the end result is about
> convincing Dawn that she's appreciated, and at least to someone,
> extraordinary. I'm guessing at least during the first take or two,
> Trachtenberg didn't have to fake any tears, since it would take a
> heart harder than stone to be unmoved. With or without a cape,
> superpowers don't really suit these two: whether they like it or not,
> they were born to be the normal ones. And one could argue that the
> show needs to represent the normals' perspective sometimes.

I absolutely adored this scene, Xander really hit it out of the ballpark
- and on a personal level, I remembered at this moment why I loved his
character so much.

>
> I almost never do this kind of songfic crap, so can I be forgiven the
> indulgence if I tweak a few lyrics for the occasion?
>
> Here's the last toast of the evening, here's to those who still believe
> All the normals will be special, all the hidden shall be seen
> Here's to long friendships rewarded, may your losses all be small
> Here's to the normals - bless them all

Perfect choice.

>
>
> So...
>
> One-sentence summary: Uneven episode, but some highlight moments for a
> couple characters who're too often unevenly written.
>
> AOQ rating: Good

Agreed.

ravimotha

unread,

Sep 26, 2006, 8:25:21 PM9/26/06

to

Arbitrar Of Quality wrote:
> A reminder: Please avoid spoilers for later episodes in these review
> threads.
>
>
> BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER
> Season Seven, Episode 12: "Potential"
> (or "This one goes out to the one I've left behind")
> Writer: Rebecca Rand Kirshner
> Director: James A. Contner
>
> Dawn The Vampire Slayer-To-Be, huh? Once the spell begins to
> "fail," it becomes increasingly clear to the viewer that the little
> glowy light is going to (apparently) settle on her. It feels like
> it's about time, at least to everyone except the potential Slayer in
> question. Dawn was a central plot device of S5, and has been drifting
> since the ball of energy origins stopped being relevant. In S6 she was
> inconsistently portrayed and important primarily for her effect on her
> sister. This year she's become an actual character of note, but
> there've been few Buffy/Dawn interactions worth mentioning (and
> really, what more is there to say?). So after all the time she's
> spent wanting to get involved in the supernatural, it seems right for
> her to have greatness or deadness or both thrust upon her. The staging
> during her first appearance nicely re-establishes this; lurking around
> the stairs, looking in on the Slayer crowd from the outside and making
> her presence ignored when correcting Buffy on the pronunciation of
> Chaka Kahn.

in 20/ 20 hindsight this plays as a little hokey for me, However when I
first saw this , some of the original opinion was about the role Dawn
would play out, and her role in the grand scheme of things. This seemed
perfectly plausible, and they have been building this for a while, in
terms of the first boyfriend/crush also being a vampire like Big Sis.

The fighting in the pit at the end of season 6

I have a number of issues with the MC5, they are shells, which is
unusual for buffy, and that in itself is distracting , especially
considering the aount of screen time they are getting. They are hitting
us over the head with the "these guys aren't ready" stick.

Surely that was the entire point of the last episode. it's to get the
gang charged up and believing it buffy's ability

> Andrew's starting to get a little tiresome with the one extended joke
> over and over (for those who haven't gotten it, he's totally
> incapable of shutting up about geeky things. Get it?), but some of the
> others' reactions are still pretty funny. The way their scenes are
> played makes me wonder whether the show is actually considering hooking
> him up with Dawn, and I have no idea how to feel about that.

I like Andrew, he is the foil that Anya has lacked since Giles left,
but he works it in a different way. It's a great way to be pop-culture,
but not right up to date pop-culture, so it's dated. I have been
accused of being a Geek , as recently as this morning, so I may not be
the best judge.

He gets to be the fluff like Clem

it's Dawns version of the Zeppo, Xander is brilliant here, The speech,
it's quiet, it's just for her, and it's sort of a nice little role
reversal, and might be even more special coming from Xander since she
used to have a little crush on Xander, despite all the other man candy
around.

>
> One-sentence summary: Uneven episode, but some highlight moments for a
> couple characters who're too often unevenly written.
>
> AOQ rating: Good
>
> [Season Seven so far:
> 1) "Lessons" - Good
> 2) "Beneath You" - Decent
> 3) "Same Time, Same Place" - Excellent
> 4) "Help" - Good
> 5) "Selfless" - SUPERLATIVE
> 6) "Him" - Bad
> 7) "Conversations With Dead People" - Good
> 8) "Sleeper" - Decent
> 9) "Never Leave Me" - Good
> 10) "Bring On The Night" - Decent
> 11) "Showtime" - Good
> 12) "Potential" - Good]

regards
Ravi

Mel

unread,

Sep 26, 2006, 8:57:23 PM9/26/06

to

MBangel10 (Melissa) wrote:

Just like Buffy in "Bring On The Night." Only that was much *more*
moronic given the

calibre of vampire she was dealing with. Or, trying to deal with. Yep,
they're definitely related.

Mel

Apteryx

unread,

Sep 26, 2006, 9:22:52 PM9/26/06

to

"Arbitrar Of Quality" <tsm...@wildmail.com> wrote in message
news:1159314979.2...@m7g2000cwm.googlegroups.com...

>A reminder: Please avoid spoilers for later episodes in these review
> threads.
>
>
> BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER
> Season Seven, Episode 12: "Potential"
> (or "This one goes out to the one I've left behind")
> Writer: Rebecca Rand Kirshner
> Director: James A. Contner
>
> Dawn The Vampire Slayer-To-Be, huh? Once the spell begins to
> "fail," it becomes increasingly clear to the viewer that the little
> glowy light is going to (apparently) settle on her. It feels like
> it's about time, at least to everyone except the potential Slayer in
> question. Dawn was a central plot device of S5, and has been drifting
> since the ball of energy origins stopped being relevant. In S6 she was
> inconsistently portrayed and important primarily for her effect on her
> sister. This year she's become an actual character of note, but
> there've been few Buffy/Dawn interactions worth mentioning (and
> really, what more is there to say?). So after all the time she's
> spent wanting to get involved in the supernatural, it seems right for
> her to have greatness or deadness or both thrust upon her.

Dunno how plausible it really is - if they'll take someone who was a
mystical ball of energy made flesh by a bunch of monks, they'll take anyone.
But they sell it well.

>
> There are a few wrinkles in all the extended early D/W/X/A/Andr scenes
> hanging around the foyer. There's Dawn being overwhelmed by how this
> will change everything, clearly too shocked to be pleased. Her friends
> are intimately aware of all the bad that comes along with this good,
> yet they're trying to make her happy and excited, by force if
> necessary.

Most of Dawn's reactions are as if she is already assuming she's the next
Slayer. But we can see by the number of potentials to every Slayer that the
odds of that are poor. What it really means for her to be a potential is, as
Anya points out, the Bringers will try to kill her, and as Willow points
out, Buffy will try to train her. I'm not sure which is the bigger threat.

>
> There's time for somewhat quieter stories like this when there's a
> lull in the main plot (I noticed Giles isn't in this one). Ongoing
> training for those already Chosen involves getting a little help from
> Spike, all fresh and redeemed now. Funny how these things go. The
> first scene with the MC5 is a pleasant little moment, between "cuz
> the black chick always gets it first?" "I have learned a valuable
> lesson of some sort. Ow!" and "that's hot." The bar is all
> right too, since it has the show's best silly one-note character,
> Clem, in it - S7 had been sorely lacking in the Clem department. The
> parts with this crowd afterward, though? EVS. The series may still
> remember that they're just side characters and use the scenes to
> focus on Buffy, but hearing her wit and wisdom about what it means to
> be the Slayer, again, gets less interesting the longer it goes on. Her
> words seem mainly designed as a complement to the action interspersed
> with it from the A-story, but despite their obvious relevance, it's
> not a very effective device. The loud and pretentious dialogue
> distracts from and actively hurts Dawn's parts a little instead of
> enhancing them. At least Buffy and Spike leaving the girls in a locked
> room with a vamp is a little more memorable.

Agree that the early training sessions (with Spike and in the bar) are
good - seems almost like you do have a sense of humour after all - nah,
can't be that - and that it drags later. Being a good Slayer doesn't make
Buffy a good trainer of Slayers. Odd that she takes it on when she has
someone on her team who we've seen actually is a good trainer of Slayers.
But locking the girls in with the vampire strikes an odd note. Even the WC
would've let them get 2 years experience of fighting vampires before it took
away their Slayer powers and did that.

> My other biggest problem with "Potential" is that it feels that it
> needs to bring its main character down excessively in order to elevate
> her at the end. Also, on a related topic, there's a difference that
> the writers don't seem to have grasped between being reckless and
> kinda dumb and being a complete fucking moron. Once the vampire is
> mentioned, it's clear that Dawn's going to go after it on her own.
> That's reckless and kinda dumb. Dawn has been doing reckless and
> kinda dumb since being introduced, and it's getting overdone; I
> rolled my eyes.

Ditto

> So, action over. the episode is cruising along to a close, and I'm
> mentally assigning it a mid-to-high Decent rating. Then there's a
> final exchange between Dawn and Buffy, which is a few sentences long,
> without much connection. Xander, on the other hand, is the one who has
> a better sense of what she's gone through. His mouth has saved the
> world, and he's got another speech saved up for this scene, and
> it's a great one, one of the best the show has ever produced.

We seem pretty much in agreement on this episode. How very odd.

> So...
>
> One-sentence summary: Uneven episode, but some highlight moments for a
> couple characters who're too often unevenly written.
>
> AOQ rating: Good

The oddness continues. Good for me too, although for me it only just makes
it into Good territory, in fact the weakest of the 79 BtVS episodes that are
currently rated Good or better. And I'm probably influenced by the fact that
it manages to pull the season out of the dive its been in over the last few
episodes, at least for now. The good stuff in it (the premise, most of
Dawn's reactions, The Speech, and the early training sessions) just manages
to outweigh the bad stuff (dumb Dawn and the training going on and on and
on). It's my 79th favourite BtVS episode, 7th best in season 7.

--
Apteryx

Don Sample

unread,

Sep 26, 2006, 9:27:51 PM9/26/06

to

In article <KZOdnQDAOtaCWYTY...@comcast.com>,
"MBangel10 (Melissa)" <mban...@comcast.net> wrote:

> Arbitrar Of Quality wrote:
> > A reminder: Please avoid spoilers for later episodes in these review
> > threads.
> >
> >
> > BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER
> > Season Seven, Episode 12: "Potential"
> > (or "This one goes out to the one I've left behind")
> > Writer: Rebecca Rand Kirshner
> > Director: James A. Contner
>

> > Congratulations, Dawn, and welcome to the land of the complete fucking

> > morons. I say the "I don't know what I'm doing here" story
> > would've been more poignant had she displayed some level of common
> > sense, and then discovered that it didn't matter, she was still a
> > lost cause in the mystical world.
>
> I think she was all hopped up on "I'm a Potential!!!" endorphins, but
> yes, going against a vampire without thinking about bringing an actual
> weapon to fight it with is a tad bit moronic.

She learned from her sister.

--
Quando omni flunkus moritati
Visit the Buffy Body Count at <http://homepage.mac.com/dsample/>

Mike Zeares

unread,

Sep 26, 2006, 9:30:24 PM9/26/06

to

Arbitrar Of Quality wrote:
> A reminder: Please avoid spoilers for later episodes in these review
> threads.
>
>
> BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER
> Season Seven, Episode 12: "Potential"
> (or "This one goes out to the one I've left behind")
> Writer: Rebecca Rand Kirshner
> Director: James A. Contner

What did you think of Buffy's statement that the First was in
"remission?" My immediate thought was, "Aha! The First is
phlebotinum! Excellent, now I don't have to waste time trying to
figure out what its plan is." This idea was not popular back then, and
probably won't be now either. But I stand by it: the First, the final
Big Bad, is just there to provide a structure to hang character moments
on. Its actual purpose is unimportant. It's not what the season is
about.

-- Mike Zeares

Scythe Matters

unread,

Sep 26, 2006, 9:49:21 PM9/26/06

to

Arbitrar Of Quality wrote:

> Dawn The Vampire Slayer-To-Be, huh?

It should probably be noted that this was a matter of speculation ever
since the "blood" thing in season 5. Fan service? Who knows?

> This year she's become an actual character of note, but
> there've been few Buffy/Dawn interactions worth mentioning (and
> really, what more is there to say?).

It's a shame...just as she's becoming a decent character, she's crowded
out by additions and events. This is something even Joss will comment
on, with regret.

> Her friends
> are intimately aware of all the bad that comes along with this good,
> yet they're trying to make her happy and excited, by force if
> necessary. Not the best response, really.

Do you notice, in this scene and the ones that follow from it, how Anya
has basically become Xander? Quip, quip, quip, quip...

> The series may still
> remember that they're just side characters and use the scenes to
> focus on Buffy, but hearing her wit and wisdom about what it means to
> be the Slayer, again, gets less interesting the longer it goes on.

Yes.

I found this bit curious:

BUFFY
Don't kid yourselves, you guys. This whole thing is all about death. You
think you're different 'cause you might be the next slayer? Death is
what a slayer breathes, what a slayer dreams about when she sleeps.
Death is what a slayer lives.

This wouldn't appear to be what the First Slayer was trying to tell her
("death is your gift," etc.), at all. This is a much darker
interpretation, and leaving some important pieces out. But it does sorta
show where Buffy's head is at right now. She *has* been thinking about
her purpose after all, though her thinking has been taking her in an
awfully dark direction.

> Also, on a related topic, there's a difference that
> the writers don't seem to have grasped between being reckless and
> kinda dumb and being a complete fucking moron.

Agreed...despite the obvious narrative desire to pay off the mislead,
there's absolutely no sense in what Dawn does. Idiot plotting, as these
things go. Thankfully, the vampire's not one of the stronger or smarter
ones, and Amanda's one of the more capable potentials.

It also struck me that Amanda's dialogue in the school isn't entirely
unlike the old Xander's dialogue. See, for example, the marching band
jokes. In concert with Anya usurping his personality, it seems to be a
deliberate attempt to move Xander to a different place so he can deliver
his fantastic final speech.

> Andrew's starting to get a little tiresome with the one extended joke
> over and over (for those who haven't gotten it, he's totally
> incapable of shutting up about geeky things. Get it?), but some of the
> others' reactions are still pretty funny. The way their scenes are
> played makes me wonder whether the show is actually considering hooking
> him up with Dawn, and I have no idea how to feel about that.

Yeah, I wondered about that as well.

One thing that he says, though, strikes a chord:

ANDREW
Yes, Willow so captured it. It's like—well, it's almost like this
metaphor for womanhood, isn't it? The sort of flowering that happens
when a girl realizes that she's part of a fertile heritage stretching
back to Eve, and—

ANYA
This isn't about womany power.

I think Andrew might be a lot closer than Anya on this one. No matter
how floridly described.

> Did Anya keep what she and Giles learned last episode to herself?

It's curious that it's not a discussion subject, huh?

> His mouth has saved the
> world, and he's got another speech saved up for this scene, and
> it's a great one, one of the best the show has ever produced.

Agreed.

> AOQ rating: Good

And agreed.

Don Sample

unread,

Sep 26, 2006, 9:54:18 PM9/26/06

to

In article <1159316721....@m7g2000cwm.googlegroups.com>,
"ravimotha" <ravi...@gmail.com> wrote:

There was a *lot* of speculation, before this episode first aired, back
in the day, that Dawn would turn out to be one of the Potentials. Some
people were so found of the idea, that they kept hoping that she would
turn out to be one even after it was over.

>
> I have a number of issues with the MC5, they are shells, which is
> unusual for buffy, and that in itself is distracting , especially
> considering the aount of screen time they are getting. They are hitting
> us over the head with the "these guys aren't ready" stick.

Speaking of the MC5, what happened to Chloe?

Malsperanza

unread,

Sep 26, 2006, 10:03:24 PM9/26/06

to

Arbitrar Of Quality wrote:
> A reminder: Please avoid spoilers for later episodes in these review
> threads.
>
>
> BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER
> Season Seven, Episode 12: "Potential"

>

> Dawn The Vampire Slayer-To-Be, huh? Once the spell begins to
> "fail," it becomes increasingly clear to the viewer that the little
> glowy light is going to (apparently) settle on her. It feels like
> it's about time, at least to everyone except the potential Slayer in
> question. Dawn was a central plot device of S5, and has been drifting
> since the ball of energy origins stopped being relevant. In S6 she was
> inconsistently portrayed and important primarily for her effect on her
> sister. This year she's become an actual character of note

Dawn's origins as a Plot Device--sorry, I mean ball of energy--have
always made it difficult to elevate her to full character status. Plus,
the writers seemed hellbent on creating in her an image of wittering
girlhood that runs counter to everything the show is trying to say
about girls as protagonists. She's whiny, she screams when scary things
happen, and she needs to be rescued all the time.

Now that grrl power is becoming a formal theme of s7, something had to
be done about Dawn. Hence this episode, which weaves her into the
story. Too bad it couldn't rescue her from all her irritating traits in
the process.

> Speaking of this not at all related character, Amanda from "Help"
> has another session with Buffy so as to remind the audience who she is.
> I was a little annoyed here at Buffy's tendency, as some have
> pointed out, to think that everything's about her. In moments like
> these, all other issues that anyone else may be having are relevant to
> her only as a mirror or contrast to whatever's on her mind. Granted,
> the world does kinda revolve around her, issues and all. But it makes
> her quite a bad counselor.

Buffy as really bad guidance counselor is one of s7's few sly jokes.
Most of its jokes are of the pie-in-the-face variety (Andrew, Clem).
Working at an actual job, Buffy immediately demonstrates all the
weaknesses that are missing from her Slayer persona: she's bored, she's
unprepared, she's not paying attention. Putting her in charge of
emotionally fragile teens is like putting WIllow in charge of the
ethics dept.

> There's time for somewhat quieter stories like this when there's a
> lull in the main plot (I noticed Giles isn't in this one). Ongoing
> training for those already Chosen involves getting a little help from
> Spike, all fresh and redeemed now. Funny how these things go. The
> first scene with the MC5 is a pleasant little moment, between "cuz
> the black chick always gets it first?" "I have learned a valuable
> lesson of some sort. Ow!" and "that's hot." The bar is all
> right too, since it has the show's best silly one-note character,
> Clem, in it - S7 had been sorely lacking in the Clem department.

Yay, Clem.

> The
> parts with this crowd afterward, though? EVS. The series may still
> remember that they're just side characters and use the scenes to
> focus on Buffy, but hearing her wit and wisdom about what it means to
> be the Slayer, again, gets less interesting the longer it goes on. Her
> words seem mainly designed as a complement to the action interspersed
> with it from the A-story, but despite their obvious relevance, it's
> not a very effective device. The loud and pretentious dialogue
> distracts from and actively hurts Dawn's parts a little instead of
> enhancing them. At least Buffy and Spike leaving the girls in a locked
> room with a vamp is a little more memorable.

I liked this small scene more than it deserved, because I so much
enjoyed seeing Buffy and Spike finally working together as a team. I
love the way they turn to the door, slide out of it and swing it shut.
I feel like I've been waiting for that moment for a long time. It has a
kind of Steed/Mrs. Peel quality that feels wholly earned.

Plus, I was sort of hoping the vampire would eat all the Potentials,
who were irritating me a lot.

> So, action over. the episode is cruising along to a close, and I'm
> mentally assigning it a mid-to-high Decent rating. Then there's a
> final exchange between Dawn and Buffy, which is a few sentences long,
> without much connection. Xander, on the other hand, is the one who has
> a better sense of what she's gone through. His mouth has saved the
> world, and he's got another speech saved up for this scene, and
> it's a great one, one of the best the show has ever produced. He
> manages to spend half of the time talking about himself, but with a
> purpose, driving home the camaraderie with Dawn and the isolation of
> those who're always going to be a little outside. Lines like "I
> see more than anybody realizes" seem a little egocentric, but they
> also seem extremely Xander. And while there's some
> retrospective-on-the-series function, the end result is about
> convincing Dawn that she's appreciated, and at least to someone,
> extraordinary. I'm guessing at least during the first take or two,
> Trachtenberg didn't have to fake any tears, since it would take a
> heart harder than stone to be unmoved. With or without a cape,
> superpowers don't really suit these two: whether they like it or not,
> they were born to be the normal ones. And one could argue that the
> show needs to represent the normals' perspective sometimes.

It's a wonderful speech, and manages to bring together many of the
season's central themes without ever sounding less than natural,
focused, and personal to Xander and Dawn. Fame and insignificance,
normality vs. heroism, doing good quietly and unsung, battling inward
demons--these are all issues for the great central characters, for
Buffy, Spike, Willow, but they turn out to be important for everyone.
And the larger theme of insight, seeing, and blindness, which has
dogged Xander all his life, suddenly becomes his salvation: He is not
only a Mouth, but Eyes. (Go back, now, and look once more at the Eye
Demon from last episode.) If Spike is shaping up as Buffy's fighting
partner, Xander is her sekrit weapon. And Dawn may be her heir after
all.

A further suprise is to discover that these two, of all people, have a
shared perspective--who would have expected that?

And I wanna give a shoutout to Amanda, my favorite of the Potentials.

~Mal

Don Sample

unread,

Sep 26, 2006, 10:14:33 PM9/26/06

to

In article <efcjpd$v48$1...@emma.aioe.org>, "Apteryx" <apt...@xtra.co.nz>
wrote:

> But locking the girls in with the vampire strikes an odd note. Even the WC
> would've let them get 2 years experience of fighting vampires before it took
> away their Slayer powers and did that.

Buffy didn't drug them first, she put them in with a newbie that she'd
already softened up for them, rather than an experienced killer, gave
them 4 to 1 odds, rather than 1 to 2, and she was right outside the
door, ready to come in to help if they needed it.

Scythe Matters

unread,

Sep 26, 2006, 10:26:31 PM9/26/06

to

Mike Zeares wrote:

> What did you think of Buffy's statement that the First was in
> "remission?" My immediate thought was, "Aha! The First is
> phlebotinum! Excellent, now I don't have to waste time trying to
> figure out what its plan is."

Va ergebfcrpg, n irel tbbq vqrn.

Terry

unread,

Sep 26, 2006, 11:24:11 PM9/26/06

to

Don Sample <dsa...@synapse.net> wrote in news:dsample-
0291A3.212...@news.giganews.com:

> She learned from her sister.

From you, okay? I learned it from watching you!!

Ian Galbraith

unread,

Sep 26, 2006, 11:33:57 PM9/26/06

to

One reason why I like the final seasons is that Joss de-emphasised the
plot in favour of the characterisation and theme. This episode is a
return to that after 4 episodes which were mainly about setting up the S7
plot. In fact I seem to recall that Joss was busy on Firefly and spending
less time on Buffy for the episodes from Sleeper to Showtime and when he
was able to devote more time to Buffy, beginning with Potential, he got
the season back on track.

--
You can't stop the signal

Ian Galbraith

unread,

Sep 26, 2006, 11:44:06 PM9/26/06

to

On 26 Sep 2006 16:56:19 -0700, Arbitrar Of Quality wrote:

[snip]

> My other biggest problem with "Potential" is that it feels that it
> needs to bring its main character down excessively in order to elevate
> her at the end. Also, on a related topic, there's a difference that
> the writers don't seem to have grasped between being reckless and
> kinda dumb and being a complete fucking moron. Once the vampire is
> mentioned, it's clear that Dawn's going to go after it on her own.
> That's reckless and kinda dumb. Dawn has been doing reckless and
> kinda dumb since being introduced, and it's getting overdone; I
> rolled my eyes.

It didn't bother me, its not hugely out of character and its somewhat
understandable in this instance and it serves to create conflict.

> But then later it's revealed that she charged in,
> with a supposed helpless innocent in tow, without a weapon of any kind
> (and stakes aren't hard to come by in this town; break one off from a
> fence on the walk to school or something), something that a
> full-fledged Slayer might hesitate to do, let alone a trainee.
> Congratulations, Dawn, and welcome to the land of the complete fucking
> morons. I say the "I don't know what I'm doing here" story
> would've been more poignant had she displayed some level of common
> sense, and then discovered that it didn't matter, she was still a
> lost cause in the mystical world.

She's been shown to be good at improvising just like Buffy.

> When the 'Bringers first went after Amanda instead, I thought for a
> second that Dawn would take advantage of the chance to save her own
> skin; that might have been interesting. Instead, it turns out to be
> the mechanism for her redemption as she does a reasonably impressive
> job of quickly realizing what's going on, seeing what has to be done,
> and making it happen without any ego-driven hesitation. She has the
> right sense of quietly accepting that this is right. The writing
> misdirect involved in having Amanda at exactly the right place at the
> right time to mislead everyone seems fairly contrived, but not a major
> problem for me.

Especially given the characterisation we get for Dawn.

[snip]

> So, action over. the episode is cruising along to a close, and I'm
> mentally assigning it a mid-to-high Decent rating. Then there's a
> final exchange between Dawn and Buffy, which is a few sentences long,
> without much connection. Xander, on the other hand, is the one who has
> a better sense of what she's gone through. His mouth has saved the
> world, and he's got another speech saved up for this scene, and
> it's a great one, one of the best the show has ever produced. He
> manages to spend half of the time talking about himself, but with a
> purpose, driving home the camaraderie with Dawn and the isolation of
> those who're always going to be a little outside. Lines like "I
> see more than anybody realizes" seem a little egocentric, but they
> also seem extremely Xander. And while there's some
> retrospective-on-the-series function, the end result is about
> convincing Dawn that she's appreciated, and at least to someone,
> extraordinary. I'm guessing at least during the first take or two,
> Trachtenberg didn't have to fake any tears, since it would take a
> heart harder than stone to be unmoved. With or without a cape,
> superpowers don't really suit these two: whether they like it or not,
> they were born to be the normal ones. And one could argue that the
> show needs to represent the normals' perspective sometimes.

The episode is somewhat of an inversion of the Buffyverse in that the
normal is the outsider and the Slayers are the insiders. Xanders speech
is wonderful and serves to underline the theme about realising the
potential within oneself.

[snip]

> AOQ rating: Good

Good for me as well, a return to character based stories advancing the
themes.

William George Ferguson

unread,

Sep 27, 2006, 12:27:29 AM9/27/06

to

On 26 Sep 2006 16:56:19 -0700, "Arbitrar Of Quality" <tsm...@wildmail.com>
wrote:

>A reminder: Please avoid spoilers for later episodes in these review
>threads.
>
>
>BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER
>Season Seven, Episode 12: "Potential"
>(or "This one goes out to the one I've left behind")
>Writer: Rebecca Rand Kirshner
>Director: James A. Contner
>

>Speaking of this not at all related character, Amanda from "Help"

>has another session with Buffy so as to remind the audience who she is.
> I was a little annoyed here at Buffy's tendency, as some have
>pointed out, to think that everything's about her. In moments like
>these, all other issues that anyone else may be having are relevant to
>her only as a mirror or contrast to whatever's on her mind. Granted,
>the world does kinda revolve around her, issues and all. But it makes
>her quite a bad counselor.

It was very clearly the intention of the writers to establish exactly
that. Even as just a peer counselor, she's really bad, and is written to
be really bad.

>There's time for somewhat quieter stories like this when there's a
>lull in the main plot (I noticed Giles isn't in this one). Ongoing
>training for those already Chosen involves getting a little help from
>Spike, all fresh and redeemed now. Funny how these things go. The
>first scene with the MC5 is a pleasant little moment, between "cuz
>the black chick always gets it first?" "I have learned a valuable
>lesson of some sort. Ow!"

I mentioned that I really like Vi

and "that's hot." The bar is all
>right too, since it has the show's best silly one-note character,
>Clem, in it - S7 had been sorely lacking in the Clem department. The
>parts with this crowd afterward, though? EVS. The series may still
>remember that they're just side characters and use the scenes to
>focus on Buffy,

While it wouldn't really be good to make any of the Potentials the focus
of an episode, except to say something about a regular, as Amanda does in
this ep with Dawn, it's not a bad idea to have some of the wallpaper have
recognizable personalities. Except for the Dick Van Dyke cockney which
drove British viewers up the wall, Molly is pretty much a cypher, but Vi
and Rona are getting some recognizable personality traits, and Amanda had
an established personlity from her first appearance, that just builds in
this ep.

>but hearing her wit and wisdom about what it means to
>be the Slayer, again, gets less interesting the longer it goes on. Her
>words seem mainly designed as a complement to the action interspersed
>with it from the A-story, but despite their obvious relevance, it's
>not a very effective device. The loud and pretentious dialogue
>distracts from and actively hurts Dawn's parts a little instead of
>enhancing them. At least Buffy and Spike leaving the girls in a locked
>room with a vamp is a little more memorable.

I got something entirely different from the sequence. buffy is lecturing
the Potentials (and she really isn't good at it, is she), and we see Dawn
actually doing everything she's describing. Coming into this ep, there
were posters commenting on Dawn not being in on the training, but we see
that one of the reasons she isn't is she has already graduated from the
beginner's class.

And as Don has pointed out in the past, she's always been a resourceful
and determined fighter.

>When the 'Bringers first went after Amanda instead, I thought for a
>second that Dawn would take advantage of the chance to save her own
>skin;

We've never seen anything to indicate Dawn would do something like that,
even if she should.

--
... and my sister is a vampire slayer, her best friend is a witch who
went bonkers and tried to destroy the world, um, I actually used to be
a little ball of energy until about two years ago when some monks
changed the past and made me Buffy's sister and for some reason, a big
klepto. My best friends are Leticia Jones, who moved to San Diego
because this town is evil, and a floppy eared demon named Clem.
(Dawn's fantasy of her intro speech in "Lessons", from the shooting script)

Don Sample

unread,

Sep 27, 2006, 1:01:40 AM9/27/06

to

In article <qiujh2594cvq9haen...@4ax.com>,

William George Ferguson <wmgf...@newsguy.com> wrote:

> On 26 Sep 2006 16:56:19 -0700, "Arbitrar Of Quality" <tsm...@wildmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> >A reminder: Please avoid spoilers for later episodes in these review
> >threads.
> >
> >
> >BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER
> >Season Seven, Episode 12: "Potential"
> >(or "This one goes out to the one I've left behind")
> >Writer: Rebecca Rand Kirshner
> >Director: James A. Contner
> >

> >but hearing her wit and wisdom about what it means to

> >be the Slayer, again, gets less interesting the longer it goes on. Her
> >words seem mainly designed as a complement to the action interspersed
> >with it from the A-story, but despite their obvious relevance, it's
> >not a very effective device. The loud and pretentious dialogue
> >distracts from and actively hurts Dawn's parts a little instead of
> >enhancing them. At least Buffy and Spike leaving the girls in a locked
> >room with a vamp is a little more memorable.
>
> I got something entirely different from the sequence. buffy is lecturing
> the Potentials (and she really isn't good at it, is she), and we see Dawn
> actually doing everything she's describing. Coming into this ep, there
> were posters commenting on Dawn not being in on the training, but we see
> that one of the reasons she isn't is she has already graduated from the
> beginner's class.

"Lessons" opened with Dawn taking her graduation exercise. She didn't
manage to kill that vamp, but she had to try it one on one.

mariposas rand mair fheal greykitten tomys des anges

unread,

Sep 27, 2006, 1:07:19 AM9/27/06

to

In article <1159314979.2...@m7g2000cwm.googlegroups.com>,

"Arbitrar Of Quality" <tsm...@wildmail.com> wrote:

> A reminder: Please avoid spoilers for later episodes in these review
> threads.
>
>
> BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER
> Season Seven, Episode 12: "Potential"
> (or "This one goes out to the one I've left behind")

ack its the return of whiney dawn

bringers out looking for isolated potentials
demons and vampires running around in the night

so whats whiney dawn going to do?
go another walkaboutand endanger herself and everyone around her
thats the dawn we know and loathe

the walkabout was a device to screw with dawns head for awhile
before teh dramatic reveal of amanda
but to use yet another suicidal walkabout to tie the plot together
geez
grow up dawn

meow arf meow - they are performing horrible experiments in space
major grubert is watching you - beware the bakalite
there can only be one or two - the airtight garage has you neo

Jeff Jacoby

unread,

Sep 27, 2006, 1:11:36 AM9/27/06

to

On 26 Sep 2006 16:56:19 -0700, Arbitrar <tsm...@wildmail.com> wrote:
> A reminder: Please avoid spoilers for later episodes in these review
> threads.
>
>
> BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER
> Season Seven, Episode 12: "Potential"
> (or "This one goes out to the one I've left behind")
> Writer: Rebecca Rand Kirshner
> Director: James A. Contner

[snip]

> There's time for somewhat quieter stories like this when there's a
> lull in the main plot (I noticed Giles isn't in this one). Ongoing
> training for those already Chosen involves getting a little help from
> Spike, all fresh and redeemed now.

Fresh and redeemed? He has a chip of uncertain effectiveness,
a soul of uncertain effectiveness, a trigger of uncertain nature
(except that he can kill people again when triggered) which they
have yet to "defuse", and some vague knowledge that The First is
in remission for who knows how long. But of course! He's the
perfect training partner to play with the potentials!

You summarized it quite well elsewhere in your review:

> Also, on a related topic, there's a difference that
> the writers don't seem to have grasped between being
> reckless and kinda dumb and being a complete fucking moron.

[snip]

> This Is Really Stupid But I Laughed Anyway moment(s):
> - "It's not loaded." "That's always the lead quote under the
> headline "Household Crossbow Accident Claims Teen"
> - "I'm fairly sure that's the smell of a hardboiled egg being thrown
> into a fire"
> - "Makes sense, I guess. Remember that thing about they share the
> same blood or whatever?" "Yeah, I never got that"

I wonder if this reflects any of the writer's views
as well as those of us who weren't terribly happy
with BI^3 (Buffy's incredibly infallible intuition)
at the end of S5?

> So, action over. the episode is cruising along to a close, and I'm
> mentally assigning it a mid-to-high Decent rating. Then there's a
> final exchange between Dawn and Buffy, which is a few sentences long,
> without much connection. Xander, on the other hand, is the one who has
> a better sense of what she's gone through. His mouth has saved the
> world, and he's got another speech saved up for this scene, and
> it's a great one, one of the best the show has ever produced. He
> manages to spend half of the time talking about himself, but with a
> purpose, driving home the camaraderie with Dawn and the isolation of
> those who're always going to be a little outside. Lines like "I
> see more than anybody realizes" seem a little egocentric, but they
> also seem extremely Xander. And while there's some
> retrospective-on-the-series function, the end result is about
> convincing Dawn that she's appreciated, and at least to someone,
> extraordinary. I'm guessing at least during the first take or two,
> Trachtenberg didn't have to fake any tears, since it would take a
> heart harder than stone to be unmoved. With or without a cape,
> superpowers don't really suit these two: whether they like it or not,
> they were born to be the normal ones. And one could argue that the
> show needs to represent the normals' perspective sometimes.

[snip]

> AOQ rating: Good

Low decent, but saved by the last five minutes.

Jeff

unread,

Sep 27, 2006, 5:31:08 AM9/27/06

to

In article <dsample-9BA2C9...@news.giganews.com>,
Don Sample <dsa...@synapse.net> wrote:

> Speaking of the MC5, what happened to Chloe?

She's feeling a little faint...

Rincewind

unread,

Sep 27, 2006, 6:51:05 AM9/27/06

to

"Arbitrar Of Quality" <tsm...@wildmail.com> wrote:
>A reminder: Please avoid spoilers for later episodes in these review
> threads.
>
>
> BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER
> Season Seven, Episode 12: "Potential"
> (or "This one goes out to the one I've left behind")
> Writer: Rebecca Rand Kirshner
> Director: James A. Contner

This time I'll start with the noticeable mistake of the week:
Where is Chloe?
Or, for those who haven't learned the names yet, where is the fifth
potential?
Last episode ended with five potentials still alive, so where is the fifth
now?
Is she sick (possibly with "stuff coming out of both ends")?
Was she sucked through a portal and is now living in Pylea where she will
marry Groosalugg and do the Dance of Joy with him?
Did Buffy feed her to Spike so he can recover his strength?
Obviously the actress was not available this week, so they had to take her
lines out of the episode. But is it too much to ask that the writers show
that they still care about this show enough to add one line of dialogue
explaining why one of only five potentials is missing fron the most
potential-centric episode of the season?

> There are a few wrinkles in all the extended early D/W/X/A/Andr scenes
> hanging around the foyer. There's Dawn being overwhelmed by how this

> will change everything, clearly too shocked to be pleased. Her friends

> are intimately aware of all the bad that comes along with this good,
> yet they're trying to make her happy and excited, by force if
> necessary. Not the best response, really.

I really hated Xander's "You're important now."
Was she not important before?
But the rest of the scene was good, notably Anya's parts, Andrew's "fertile
heritage" speech and Xander's "I'll pay you to talk about Star Wars again".

> There's time for somewhat quieter stories like this when there's a
> lull in the main plot (I noticed Giles isn't in this one). Ongoing
> training for those already Chosen involves getting a little help from

> Spike, all fresh and redeemed now. Funny how these things go. The
> first scene with the MC5 is a pleasant little moment, between "cuz
> the black chick always gets it first?" "I have learned a valuable

> lesson of some sort. Ow!" and "that's hot." The bar is all

> right too, since it has the show's best silly one-note character,
> Clem, in it - S7 had been sorely lacking in the Clem department.

Come back Clem, we miss you!

> My other biggest problem with "Potential" is that it feels that it
> needs to bring its main character down excessively in order to elevate

> her at the end. Also, on a related topic, there's a difference that

> the writers don't seem to have grasped between being reckless and
> kinda dumb and being a complete fucking moron.

Kinda like in Showtime?

> Once the vampire is
> mentioned, it's clear that Dawn's going to go after it on her own.
> That's reckless and kinda dumb. Dawn has been doing reckless and
> kinda dumb since being introduced, and it's getting overdone; I

> rolled my eyes. But then later it's revealed that she charged in,

> with a supposed helpless innocent in tow, without a weapon of any kind
> (and stakes aren't hard to come by in this town; break one off from a
> fence on the walk to school or something), something that a
> full-fledged Slayer might hesitate to do, let alone a trainee.
> Congratulations, Dawn, and welcome to the land of the complete fucking
> morons. I say the "I don't know what I'm doing here" story
> would've been more poignant had she displayed some level of common
> sense, and then discovered that it didn't matter, she was still a
> lost cause in the mystical world.

I totally agree.

> So, action over. the episode is cruising along to a close, and I'm
> mentally assigning it a mid-to-high Decent rating. Then there's a
> final exchange between Dawn and Buffy, which is a few sentences long,
> without much connection. Xander, on the other hand, is the one who has
> a better sense of what she's gone through. His mouth has saved the
> world, and he's got another speech saved up for this scene, and
> it's a great one, one of the best the show has ever produced.

I usually don't like Xander, but this is one of the few times that I hated
him a little less than usual....

> So...
>
> One-sentence summary: Uneven episode, but some highlight moments for a
> couple characters who're too often unevenly written.
>
> AOQ rating: Good

Strangely we agree on this one: it's Good for me too.

Rincewind.
--
Lines you'll never hear on Buffy:
BUFFY: Because if you make that one mistake, then it's over. You're not the
Slayer... you're not a potential... you're dead. So what do you know? Right
now, the only thing you know for sure? You got me.
(She drops the stake, backs out of the crypt with Spike and slams the door,
locking the terrified potentials inside with the vampire.)
SPIKE: Buffy, please... People are going to die.
BUFFY: And yet, somehow, I just can't seem to care.

jil...@hotmail.com

unread,

Sep 27, 2006, 8:16:20 AM9/27/06

to

Apteryx wrote:
> Agree that the early training sessions (with Spike and in the bar) are
> good - seems almost like you do have a sense of humour after all - nah,
> can't be that - and that it drags later. Being a good Slayer doesn't make
> Buffy a good trainer of Slayers. Odd that she takes it on when she has
> someone on her team who we've seen actually is a good trainer of Slayers.
> But locking the girls in with the vampire strikes an odd note. Even the WC
> would've let them get 2 years experience of fighting vampires before it took
> away their Slayer powers and did that.

She has been training them. She did not lock them in all by their
lonesome after days of confused fear as their strength and coordination
drained away. She also locked them in, a GROUP of them, not ONE girl,
with ONE newborn vampire, not an insane, possibly decades old at the
least, vampire.

Mike Zeares

unread,

Sep 27, 2006, 8:23:14 AM9/27/06

to

I know, right?

Don Sample

unread,

Sep 27, 2006, 11:05:37 AM9/27/06

to

In article <efddnj$5fu$1...@emma.aioe.org>, "Apteryx" <apt...@xtra.co.nz>
wrote:

> "Don Sample" <dsa...@synapse.net> wrote in message
> news:dsample-0271D2...@news.giganews.com...
> > In article <efcjpd$v48$1...@emma.aioe.org>, "Apteryx" <apt...@xtra.co.nz>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> But locking the girls in with the vampire strikes an odd note. Even the
> >> WC
> >> would've let them get 2 years experience of fighting vampires before it
> >> took
> >> away their Slayer powers and did that.
> >
> > Buffy didn't drug them first, she put them in with a newbie that she'd
> > already softened up for them, rather than an experienced killer, gave
> > them 4 to 1 odds, rather than 1 to 2, and she was right outside the
> > door, ready to come in to help if they needed it.
>
> The WC's drugs only took away Buffy's slayer powers, and the potentials are
> there already.

Take away the super strength and reflexes from someone who has spent 7
years learning how to live with them, and they're a lot worse off than
someone who never had super strength in the first place.

Arbitrar Of Quality

unread,

Sep 27, 2006, 1:37:40 PM9/27/06

to

Rincewind wrote:
> "Arbitrar Of Quality" <tsm...@wildmail.com> wrote:

> This time I'll start with the noticeable mistake of the week:
> Where is Chloe?
> Or, for those who haven't learned the names yet, where is the fifth
> potential?

Maybe it's a sting operation to torment those who were fool enough to
bother figuring out which one was Chloe.

> > Also, on a related topic, there's a difference that
> > the writers don't seem to have grasped between being reckless and
> > kinda dumb and being a complete fucking moron.
>
> Kinda like in Showtime?

Several people have compared Dawn here and Buffy in the last episode.
While the latter may have inspired the former, it doesn't make the
former any less stupid. For one thing, there are subtle and nuanced
difference between Chaka Kahn vamps and normal ones, one of which
relates to their relative vulnerability to common, easy-to-find
weapons. For another, Buffy's a Slayer, and Dawn, despite her
"Potential" is just a girl - the show's been clear on that.

> Lines you'll never hear on Buffy:
> BUFFY: Because if you make that one mistake, then it's over. You're not the
> Slayer... you're not a potential... you're dead. So what do you know? Right
> now, the only thing you know for sure? You got me.
> (She drops the stake, backs out of the crypt with Spike and slams the door,
> locking the terrified potentials inside with the vampire.)
> SPIKE: Buffy, please... People are going to die.
> BUFFY: And yet, somehow, I just can't seem to care.

Damn, that's funny.

-AOQ

unread,

Sep 27, 2006, 2:06:05 PM9/27/06

to

Arbitrar Of Quality <tsm...@wildmail.com> wrote:
> A reminder: Please avoid spoilers for later episodes in these review
> threads.

> BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER
> Season Seven, Episode 12: "Potential"
> (or "This one goes out to the one I've left behind")
> Writer: Rebecca Rand Kirshner
> Director: James A. Contner

.

You mention that Dawn and Buffy haven't had many memorable scenes together
this season. Now that Potential highlights it, their interactions in
recent episodes are conspicuous by their relative absence. (Or, in Him,
their being prompted by external factors.) Really Buffy has been
interacting less, on a personal level, with *all* the gang since the end
of STSP; we just focus on the Dawn part here. It's almost like season 6
again, except that then Buffy was emotionally unable to connect with her
friends, whereas in recent episodes she's been reasonably healthy but
distracted by Slayer stuff and Spike. And Dawn has been dealing with it a
lot better than she did in season 6.

There seem to be a lot of mystical ways to find Potentials. Willow's
spell is obviously different from whatever the Coven and the Watchers'
Council used to find Potentials, since it would only work at close range.
I wonder how the Coven's seer was able to tell that the new Potential was
a Sunnydale resident and not someone who had just travelled there to find
Buffy?

> Speaking of this not at all related character, Amanda from "Help"
> has another session with Buffy so as to remind the audience who she is.

For some reason I was really amused by the way Buffy sits up straight and
squeezes that little koosh ball as she talks to Amanda and goes off on her
little detour.

> There's time for somewhat quieter stories like this when there's a
> lull in the main plot (I noticed Giles isn't in this one). Ongoing
> training for those already Chosen involves getting a little help from
> Spike, all fresh and redeemed now. Funny how these things go.

Funny, yeah. OFV I thought Spike and Buffy were drifting back together
much too easily, and wasn't at all sure Spike -- or the show -- had earned
this. To what extent they are actually drifting together remains to be
seen, of course.

> The
> first scene with the MC5 is a pleasant little moment, between "cuz
> the black chick always gets it first?" "I have learned a valuable
> lesson of some sort. Ow!" and "that's hot."

I'm another one who really likes Vi. She's just so adorable with her
little caps and her little squeak after Spike attacks her. And you can
never have too many female redheads on the show.

> The bar is all
> right too,

Recently I watched this ep with the English subtitles turned on, and was
amused to see that the pig's blood spritzers were rendered as "pig's butt
spritzers."

> not a very effective device. The loud and pretentious dialogue
> distracts from and actively hurts Dawn's parts a little instead of
> enhancing them. At least Buffy and Spike leaving the girls in a locked
> room with a vamp is a little more memorable.

I really liked the way they cut between Buffy's lecture and Dawn's fight
with the vampire. However, overall I agree that the Potentials' big night
out went on too long. Maybe they were trying to set up a contrast between
Buffy's long-winded lessons and her suddenly dropping them into combat. I
wonder if she was imitating the Cruciamentum without even realizing it?

> My other biggest problem with "Potential" is that it feels that it
> needs to bring its main character down excessively in order to elevate

> her at the end. Also, on a related topic, there's a difference that

> the writers don't seem to have grasped between being reckless and

> kinda dumb and being a complete fucking moron. Once the vampire is

Agreed. It would have been a lot better if they had just shown Dawn
grabbing a stake; it could have been knocked out of her hand later to make
room for her improvizations in the chem lab. An equally annoying part for
me was the way she snuck out of her window, which too closely paralleled
Blood Ties.

Why was the vampire lying in wait for them? Did he have the slightest
reason to think Amanda would come back?

I really like the way Dawn realizes that she's not the Potential just as
she's telling the Bringers "You don't want her! You want me...."

> This Is Really Stupid But I Laughed Anyway moment(s):

-Buffy's phone conversation with Xander
-"You're like a small dog dancing for snausages."
-Rona: "I like the feel of wood in my hand." Kennedy: "Lost me there."
-Andrew doing the snake voice, and Willow's unamused reaction
-Clem showing off his demon face
-"That's because you're a part of something larger. Like being swallowed.
By something larger."

Not exactly a joke, but note that Anya is *still* referring to Dawn as a
child.

> So, action over. the episode is cruising along to a close, and I'm
> mentally assigning it a mid-to-high Decent rating. Then there's a
> final exchange between Dawn and Buffy, which is a few sentences long,
> without much connection. Xander, on the other hand, is the one who has
> a better sense of what she's gone through.

Great scene. I can't really add anything to what's already been said.
[I do think that Dawn and Xander's position in the story is paralleled by
their status among the fans. I feel a bit defensive about both characters,
because they don't have as many vocal defenders as the some of the others,
and come in for (IMO) much more than their fair share of bashing, yet
they're crucial to the overall dynamic of the show.] It's one of my
favorite moments of the whole season, and also one of my favorites for
both characters.

> I almost never do this kind of songfic crap, so can I be forgiven the
> indulgence if I tweak a few lyrics for the occasion?
>
> Here's the last toast of the evening, here's to those who still believe
> All the normals will be special, all the hidden shall be seen
> Here's to long friendships rewarded, may your losses all be small
> Here's to the normals - bless them all

Aaaawww....

> One-sentence summary: Uneven episode, but some highlight moments for a
> couple characters who're too often unevenly written.
>
> AOQ rating: Good

Agreed. Your one-sentence summary captures it pretty well. The last
scene, and MT's performance throughout most of the episode, push it past
the borderline into Good.

--Chris

______________________________________________________________________
chrisg [at] gwu.edu On the Internet, nobody knows I'm a dog.

Malsperanza

unread,

Sep 27, 2006, 2:24:47 PM9/27/06

to

Rincewind wrote:
> Lines you'll never hear on Buffy:
> BUFFY: Because if you make that one mistake, then it's over. You're not the
> Slayer... you're not a potential... you're dead. So what do you know? Right
> now, the only thing you know for sure? You got me.
> (She drops the stake, backs out of the crypt with Spike and slams the door,
> locking the terrified potentials inside with the vampire.)
> SPIKE: Buffy, please... People are going to die.
> BUFFY: And yet, somehow, I just can't seem to care.

I always enjoy these, but you left out one important bit this time. The
dialogue should read thus:

BUFFY: Because if you make that one mistake, then it's over. You're not
the Slayer... you're not a potential... you're dead. So what do you
know? Right now, the only thing you know for sure? You got me. (She
drops the stake, backs out of the crypt with Spike and slams the door,
locking the terrified potentials inside with the vampire.)
SPIKE: Buffy, please... People are going to die.
BUFFY: And yet, somehow, I just can't seem to care.

(They embrace passionately.)

~Mal

Scythe Matters

unread,

Sep 27, 2006, 2:25:55 PM9/27/06

to

(this isn't a reply in the subthread it's in, but a reply to AoQ's
original review; since I'd already erased the original, I'm putting it here)

I forgot something that seems like it might be rather important, in
light of the seasonal theme of power:

---

(from "Lessons")

BUFFY
It's about power. Who's got it. Who knows how to use it.

---

(from "Conversations")

CASSIE/FIRST
It was the power.

WILLOW
I am the power. It's in me.

CASSIE/FIRST
The power is bigger than you are.

...and...

XANDER
So you're hammering, right? OK, well at the end of the hammer, you have
the power, but no control. It takes, like, two strokes to hit the nail
in, or you could hit your thumb. So you choke up. Control, but no power.
It could take like ten strokes to knock the nail in. Power, control.
It's a tradeoff.

...and...

BUFFY
I have all this power. I didn't ask for it. I don't deserve it.

---

(from "Potential")

XANDER
I saw what you did last night.

DAWN
Yeah, I-- I guess I kinda lost my head when I thought I was the slayer.

XANDER
You thought you were all special. Miss Sunnydale 2003. And the minute
you found out you weren't, you handed the crown to Amanda without a
moment's pause. You gave her your power.

DAWN
The power wasn't mine.

---

This is an...interesting...way to deal with power. The way to win the
fight in the school wasn't to *use* power, it was to give it away. (And
have your sister and her undead project arrive just in the nick of time,
of course.)

mariposas rand mair fheal greykitten tomys des anges

unread,

Sep 27, 2006, 2:30:40 PM9/27/06

to

In article <1159378660....@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,

"Arbitrar Of Quality" <tsm...@wildmail.com> wrote:

> Rincewind wrote:
> > "Arbitrar Of Quality" <tsm...@wildmail.com> wrote:
>
> > This time I'll start with the noticeable mistake of the week:
> > Where is Chloe?
> > Or, for those who haven't learned the names yet, where is the fifth
> > potential?
>
> Maybe it's a sting operation to torment those who were fool enough to
> bother figuring out which one was Chloe.

ttfn

ravimotha

unread,

Sep 27, 2006, 2:45:20 PM9/27/06

to

This leads into the only issue I have (Overall) with Season 7. It's the
direction,
Seasons 1- 3 always had a purpose, and even when the writers and
producers had an attack of the clevers or seemed to go off the ranch it
always felt like their was a singular pupose, or driving force.

This one almost felt like the direction meandered , and was then
wrangled back

Season 4 was the only one that felt genuinely directionless till late
in the seaon.
Season 5 was the lesson s of 4 being learnt and applied within the
context of the network wrangles
Season 6 was deliberatly obtuse (It was trying the old magicians trick
of showing with one hand while doing with the other).

regards
Ravi

Scythe Matters

unread,

Sep 27, 2006, 2:48:20 PM9/27/06

to

chr...@removethistoreply.gwu.edu wrote:

> You mention that Dawn and Buffy haven't had many memorable scenes together
> this season. Now that Potential highlights it, their interactions in
> recent episodes are conspicuous by their relative absence. (Or, in Him,
> their being prompted by external factors.) Really Buffy has been
> interacting less, on a personal level, with *all* the gang since the end
> of STSP; we just focus on the Dawn part here.

Yes, precisely. There's a distance growing between all of them. And
we've already seen the setup of tension between Buffy & Willow, and
Buffy & Anya. Xander, for whatever reason, has been surprisingly mature
and non-accusatory, but we all know what he must be thinking about some
of what's going on. There's obvious issues with the gang re: Spke. And
now this episode separates Dawn...not just from Buffy, but also from the
others (who treat her like a child-object after the spell apparently
targets her).

> I'm another one who really likes Vi.

Ditto. Other than Kennedy, who's obviously intended to be "above" the
other Potentials, I really think the actresses who play Vi and Amanda
sell the proper mixture of terror/girlish enthusiasm/potential power
much better than the others. Rona's got the sarcastic quipping thing
down, but her character this weeks is totally unrecognizable vs. her
previous appearance.

> An equally annoying part for
> me was the way she snuck out of her window, which too closely paralleled
> Blood Ties.

Interestingly, I liked it because it closely paralleled a dozen of
Buffy's window escapes from the first three seasons. Which, I think, was
more the intent.

> Why was the vampire lying in wait for them?

A deep interest in chemistry?

> -Rona: "I like the feel of wood in my hand." Kennedy: "Lost me there."

And the rest of the potential's little looks at each other immediately
after that line. Subtle, but well done.

Stephen Tempest

unread,

Sep 27, 2006, 2:49:10 PM9/27/06

to

"Arbitrar Of Quality" <tsm...@wildmail.com> writes:

>But then later it's revealed that she charged in,
>with a supposed helpless innocent in tow, without a weapon of any kind
>(and stakes aren't hard to come by in this town; break one off from a
>fence on the walk to school or something)

Isn't this contradictory? If stakes are so easy to find, why does she
need to bring one? And in the event, she does indeed manage to
improvise one on the spot. (Although probably hurting her knee in the
process).

Plus, from Amanda's explanation I got the impression she thought the
vampire would still be unconscious on the classroom floor when they
arrived.

Stephen

hayes62

unread,

Sep 27, 2006, 3:00:33 PM9/27/06

to

Huh? Season one had a straight forward arc, maybe too straightforward
but S2 meandered all over the place untill Angelus turned up and in S3
the mayor drifted in and out of view with no obvious purpose while the
idea of the students helping out instead of getting in the way or being
as wilfully ignorant as the rest of Sunnydale came completely out of
nowhere 2-3 episodes from the end. S7, by contrast, seems pretty
focussed.

~H

Jeff Jacoby

unread,

Sep 27, 2006, 3:04:19 PM9/27/06

to

On Wed, 27 Sep 2006 18:06:05 -0000, <chr...@removethistoreply.gwu.edu> wrote:
> Arbitrar Of Quality <tsm...@wildmail.com> wrote:

[snip]

>> My other biggest problem with "Potential" is that it feels that it
>> needs to bring its main character down excessively in order to elevate
>> her at the end. Also, on a related topic, there's a difference that
>> the writers don't seem to have grasped between being reckless and
>> kinda dumb and being a complete fucking moron. Once the vampire is
>
> Agreed. It would have been a lot better if they had just shown Dawn
> grabbing a stake; it could have been knocked out of her hand later to make
> room for her improvizations in the chem lab. An equally annoying part for
> me was the way she snuck out of her window, which too closely paralleled
> Blood Ties.
>
> Why was the vampire lying in wait for them? Did he have the slightest
> reason to think Amanda would come back?

You could fanwank it this way: He's kind of dumb and thinks
maybe there's a bio lab around with some blood to drink
(okay, he'd have to be really dumb!). While prowling around
he hears voices outside the door. "Aha!" he thinks, "the Happy
Meal has come back." Thinking what a lucky vamp he is he jumps
into ceiling alcove to wait for them to enter.

Hmmm.

Nah, doesn't work for me either.

Jeff

Elisi

unread,

Sep 27, 2006, 3:47:37 PM9/27/06

to

Arbitrar Of Quality wrote:
> A reminder: Please avoid spoilers for later episodes in these review
> threads.
>
>
> BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER
> Season Seven, Episode 12: "Potential"
> (or "This one goes out to the one I've left behind")
> Writer: Rebecca Rand Kirshner
> Director: James A. Contner

Better late than never. But I think I bring a few new things to the
discussions...

> Dawn The Vampire Slayer-To-Be, huh?

It works very nicely.

> There are a few wrinkles in all the extended early D/W/X/A/Andr scenes
> hanging around the foyer. There's Dawn being overwhelmed by how this
> will change everything, clearly too shocked to be pleased. Her friends
> are intimately aware of all the bad that comes along with this good,
> yet they're trying to make her happy and excited, by force if

> necessary. Not the best response, really. I like the delivery on the
> repeated "too much for my head" lines. Also, Joyce's words from
> CWDP are still a weight on Bitty Buffy that she hasn't told anyone
> about. In support of what I'm saying about the B/D relationship
> being less central this season, notice that we never even find out how
> Buffy would've reacted.

>From The Gift:

Buffy: It's not just the memories they built. It's physical. Dawn ...
is a part of me. The only part that I-

What was she going to say? I think Buffy tries very hard to keep Dawn
away from all the slaying because she knows what it does to people.

> Speaking of this not at all related character, Amanda from "Help"
> has another session with Buffy so as to remind the audience who she is.

> I was a little annoyed here at Buffy's tendency, as some have
> pointed out, to think that everything's about her. In moments like
> these, all other issues that anyone else may be having are relevant to
> her only as a mirror or contrast to whatever's on her mind. Granted,
> the world does kinda revolve around her, issues and all. But it makes
> her quite a bad counselor.

Everyone seems to have this interpretation, which is almost the
opposite of mine. The scene isn't there to show that Buffy is a bad
councellor - it's there partly to re-introduce Amanda, but also to get
Buffy to talk about herself and Spike and to show where her head is at
as concerns their relationship. Like everything else in this episode
the scene has several purposes - the councelling session is only the
frame. (OK, so Buffy is not the greatest person to come to for
relationship advice, but that's hardly news. We've known that for
ever.)

> There's time for somewhat quieter stories like this when there's a
> lull in the main plot (I noticed Giles isn't in this one). Ongoing
> training for those already Chosen involves getting a little help from
> Spike, all fresh and redeemed now. Funny how these things go.

If anyone had told him back in S4 that this was where he'd end up, he
might have made more of an effort in the self-staking attempt... *g*

The
> first scene with the MC5 is a pleasant little moment, between "cuz
> the black chick always gets it first?" "I have learned a valuable
> lesson of some sort. Ow!" and "that's hot."

Need I say how much I love that scene? Not to mention the vibe between
S and B - and how she forgets that tthey're really not all that
intimate anymore...

> The bar is all

> right too, since it has the show's best silly one-note character,

> Clem, in it - S7 had been sorely lacking in the Clem department. The
> parts with this crowd afterward, though? EVS. The series may still
> remember that they're just side characters and use the scenes to
> focus on Buffy, but hearing her wit and wisdom about what it means to
> be the Slayer, again, gets less interesting the longer it goes on. Her
> words seem mainly designed as a complement to the action interspersed
> with it from the A-story, but despite their obvious relevance, it's

> not a very effective device. The loud and pretentious dialogue
> distracts from and actively hurts Dawn's parts a little instead of
> enhancing them. At least Buffy and Spike leaving the girls in a locked
> room with a vamp is a little more memorable.

Now I'm going to come out in favour of Buffy's teaching methods. *waves
flag* SHe might be rubbish at relationships, but she knows how to fight
and, more importantly, how to stay alive. She is imparting to the
newbies what we've seen her do for the past 6 years, and I have to say
that I enjoy watching it. She telling them to improvise, to react
rather than plan, to trust their instincts. Of course her lectures get
slightly undermined every time, but this is a good thing, showing that
the world isn't black and white (yes most of the demons at Willy's bar
are nasty and want to kill her, but soem, like Clem, can become friends
- don't judge by appearance!). And I also like how Buffy's lecture
overlaps with Dawn's fighting, showing in action that she has already
absorbed the lessons Buffy is imparting.

> My other biggest problem with "Potential" is that it feels that it
> needs to bring its main character down excessively in order to elevate
> her at the end.

Bring her down? Sorry, but I don't see that. Dawn might not have been
acting very wisely in going after the vamp herself, but she showed
great skills of improvisation and a lot of guts in the way she fought.
She would have made a great Potential.

> Also, on a related topic, there's a difference that
> the writers don't seem to have grasped between being reckless and
> kinda dumb and being a complete fucking moron. Once the vampire is

> mentioned, it's clear that Dawn's going to go after it on her own.
> That's reckless and kinda dumb. Dawn has been doing reckless and
> kinda dumb since being introduced, and it's getting overdone; I

> rolled my eyes. But then later it's revealed that she charged in,

> with a supposed helpless innocent in tow, without a weapon of any kind

"The stake is not the power".
Lessons

> (and stakes aren't hard to come by in this town; break one off from a
> fence on the walk to school or something)

She broke the flag.

, something that a
> full-fledged Slayer might hesitate to do, let alone a trainee.
> Congratulations, Dawn, and welcome to the land of the complete fucking
> morons. I say the "I don't know what I'm doing here" story
> would've been more poignant had she displayed some level of common
> sense, and then discovered that it didn't matter, she was still a
> lost cause in the mystical world.

Well I think she _did_ display great fighting abilities. I'd never
thought about the not bringing of a stake until you pointed it out.
That's not to say that I love all the Dawn & Amanda stuff, I think it
drags a little, but that's a different matter.

> When the 'Bringers first went after Amanda instead, I thought for a
> second that Dawn would take advantage of the chance to save her own
> skin; that might have been interesting. Instead, it turns out to be
> the mechanism for her redemption as she does a reasonably impressive
> job of quickly realizing what's going on, seeing what has to be done,
> and making it happen without any ego-driven hesitation. She has the
> right sense of quietly accepting that this is right. The writing
> misdirect involved in having Amanda at exactly the right place at the
> right time to mislead everyone seems fairly contrived, but not a major
> problem for me.

Contrived maybe, but not badly done really.

> Andrew's starting to get a little tiresome with the one extended joke
> over and over (for those who haven't gotten it, he's totally
> incapable of shutting up about geeky things. Get it?), but some of the
> others' reactions are still pretty funny.

I cannot believe that n one has mentioned one of the greatest lines
concerning Andrew:

"He's not evil, but when he gets close to it, he picks up its flavor
like a mushroom or something."

It's the perfect description of him, and I utterly adore it. Actually
the whole talk is very, very good. This bit in particular:

ANDREW: (whining) It's not fair. Spike just killed people, and he gets
to go.
BUFFY: Spike didn't have free will and you did.
ANDREW: (sighs) I hate my free will.

Another great insight into the character. I know his story is slow
moving, but it's one of my favourites and it really pays off in the
end. Stay tuned.

The way their scenes are
> played makes me wonder whether the show is actually considering hooking
> him up with Dawn, and I have no idea how to feel about that.

Huh? If you hadn't noticed, he's gay...

> Did Anya keep what she and Giles learned last episode to herself?

Not sure. I guess they told Buffy at least.

> So, action over. the episode is cruising along to a close, and I'm
> mentally assigning it a mid-to-high Decent rating. Then there's a
> final exchange between Dawn and Buffy, which is a few sentences long,
> without much connection. Xander, on the other hand, is the one who has

> a better sense of what she's gone through. His mouth has saved the
> world, and he's got another speech saved up for this scene, and

> it's a great one, one of the best the show has ever produced. He
> manages to spend half of the time talking about himself, but with a
> purpose, driving home the camaraderie with Dawn and the isolation of
> those who're always going to be a little outside. Lines like "I
> see more than anybody realizes" seem a little egocentric, but they
> also seem extremely Xander. And while there's some
> retrospective-on-the-series function, the end result is about
> convincing Dawn that she's appreciated, and at least to someone,
> extraordinary. I'm guessing at least during the first take or two,
> Trachtenberg didn't have to fake any tears, since it would take a
> heart harder than stone to be unmoved. With or without a cape,
> superpowers don't really suit these two: whether they like it or not,
> they were born to be the normal ones. And one could argue that the
> show needs to represent the normals' perspective sometimes.

That speech is extraordinary (pun intended).

> I almost never do this kind of songfic crap, so can I be forgiven the
> indulgence if I tweak a few lyrics for the occasion?
>
> Here's the last toast of the evening, here's to those who still believe
> All the normals will be special, all the hidden shall be seen
> Here's to long friendships rewarded, may your losses all be small
> Here's to the normals - bless them all

Aw, that's lovely. :)

> So...

>
> One-sentence summary: Uneven episode, but some highlight moments for a
> couple characters who're too often unevenly written.
>
> AOQ rating: Good

unread,

Sep 27, 2006, 6:05:26 PM9/27/06

to

"Arbitrar Of Quality" <tsm...@wildmail.com> wrote in message
news:1159314979.2...@m7g2000cwm.googlegroups.com...

> BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER
> Season Seven, Episode 12: "Potential"

A nice break in pacing that doesn't feel as heavy as the previous run - much
appreciated. But there's some real depth in this episode too - and I think
some very good writing that may not always be obvious.

> Dawn The Vampire Slayer-To-Be, huh? Once the spell begins to
> "fail," it becomes increasingly clear to the viewer that the little
> glowy light is going to (apparently) settle on her. It feels like
> it's about time, at least to everyone except the potential Slayer in
> question. Dawn was a central plot device of S5, and has been drifting
> since the ball of energy origins stopped being relevant. In S6 she was
> inconsistently portrayed and important primarily for her effect on her
> sister. This year she's become an actual character of note, but
> there've been few Buffy/Dawn interactions worth mentioning (and
> really, what more is there to say?). So after all the time she's
> spent wanting to get involved in the supernatural, it seems right for
> her to have greatness or deadness or both thrust upon her. The staging
> during her first appearance nicely re-establishes this; lurking around
> the stairs, looking in on the Slayer crowd from the outside and making
> her presence ignored when correcting Buffy on the pronunciation of
> Chaka Kahn.

I totally bought the idea of Dawn as potential when that was revealed. I
had some doubts whether it was a good idea, but, as you point out, it seemed
they had been setting that up for some time, and there's sense to the
progression. Buffy as Dawn's role model - in spite of various
disappointments and arguments - has been the centerpiece of her life - well,
forever. Willow bringing up the shared blood story from S5 comes across as
a QED moment.

> There are a few wrinkles in all the extended early D/W/X/A/Andr scenes
> hanging around the foyer. There's Dawn being overwhelmed by how this
> will change everything, clearly too shocked to be pleased. Her friends
> are intimately aware of all the bad that comes along with this good,
> yet they're trying to make her happy and excited, by force if
> necessary. Not the best response, really. I like the delivery on the
> repeated "too much for my head" lines.

But Dawn doesn't end up a potential. Although an important part of this
episode is about her and her "normal" fate, she's also a device used to
stand in for all of the potentials so that we can better get an emotional
understanding of them. Dawn's fears are theirs. The thoughts of others
about what it means for Dawn applies to all. Ultimately the episode is more
about the potentials than it is about Dawn. There must be a reason all
these potentials are here beyond the proximate plot device of them being
driven to the Summers house by The First. I think we begin to really see
that in this episode as we explore various notions of what it means to be a
potential and how they relate to the slayer. One big moment I think is
Anya's very neat summary of the situation to Dawn. (When Anya's blunt,
there's usually something to what she says.)

Anya: That's because you're a part of something larger. Like being
swallowed. By something larger.
Dawn: This-this is too much for my head again. I can't. I-I need to be-
Xander: Nice job with the "getting swallowed" analogy.
Anya: Well, it is a mixed bag, you know. If she gets to be the slayer, then
her life is short and brutal. And if she doesn't, then it smells of
unfulfilled potential. My swallowed analogy looks pretty sweet right now,
doesn't it?

Anya just described a paradox - a variation of the same paradox Buffy has
struggled with since the first season - but here seen from a potential's
vantage point. Winning the prize isn't such a prize. But if you don't -
then potential is all that you'll ever have.

Willow tries to improve the analogy by saying that they're part of a greater
power - which she knows feels fantastic. (Brave talk by Willow considering
her past, but that's another matter and I'll just give her some cred for
thinking positively here.) The problem with that is that they're really not
that much of a part of that power. The real power is in The Slayer.
They're just hanging around waiting to be consumed by it or rejected by it.
That's not exactly shared power like Willow suggests.

And then Andrew barges in with his own notion.

Andrew: It's like-well, it's almost like this metaphor for womanhood, isn't
it? The sort of flowering that happens when a girl realizes that she's part
of a fertile heritage stretching back to Eve.

Andrew, being Andrew, is more caught up in the romantic myth of it. ("Holy
crap! Excuse me. Plucked from an ordinary life, handed a destiny-") But
he's not wrong. Indeed, that line sounds suspiciously like the writers
speaking a series metaphor through Andrew's mouth. (Since you're looking
for a purpose other than the same old joke from Andrew.)

> Also, Joyce's words from
> CWDP are still a weight on Bitty Buffy that she hasn't told anyone
> about.

And this might be seen as one possible manifestation of the prediction that
Buffy wouldn't choose her. Though not necessarily. Nor necessarily that
the prediction is meaningful.

> In support of what I'm saying about the B/D relationship
> being less central this season, notice that we never even find out how

> Buffy would've reacted. It's an understandable omission since
> it's a one-episode storyline, and it's hard to say how much, if at
> all, of a missed opportunity it is. Dawn does reference the family
> connection a few times and picks up a few Buffy-esque gestures like the
> head movements during her first meeting with Amanda on the sidewalk.

It's not just that it's a one-episode storyline - or even just to show
Buffy's distancing from others. (Although that does matter too.) The
episode is making a point of showing how strong Buffy's influence on Dawn
is, so that Buffy is in Dawn's mind even when Dawn is alone. Her fight with
the vampire is intercut with Buffy speaking to the potentials so that we can
see Dawn apply what she's learned from Buffy - as if she was right there
with her.

How important that is to the season... well, that question can apply to a
lot of things. Where's the principal? Where's Giles? There's just a lot
of people. There's not enough room in the season for all the people and
relationships to exist at the same level of importance we might expect.

> There's time for somewhat quieter stories like this when there's a
> lull in the main plot (I noticed Giles isn't in this one). Ongoing
> training for those already Chosen involves getting a little help from

> Spike, all fresh and redeemed now. Funny how these things go. The

> first scene with the MC5 is a pleasant little moment, between "cuz
> the black chick always gets it first?" "I have learned a valuable

> lesson of some sort. Ow!" and "that's hot." The bar is all

> right too, since it has the show's best silly one-note character,
> Clem, in it - S7 had been sorely lacking in the Clem department. The
> parts with this crowd afterward, though? EVS. The series may still
> remember that they're just side characters and use the scenes to
> focus on Buffy, but hearing her wit and wisdom about what it means to
> be the Slayer, again, gets less interesting the longer it goes on. Her
> words seem mainly designed as a complement to the action interspersed
> with it from the A-story, but despite their obvious relevance, it's
> not a very effective device. The loud and pretentious dialogue
> distracts from and actively hurts Dawn's parts a little instead of
> enhancing them. At least Buffy and Spike leaving the girls in a locked
> room with a vamp is a little more memorable.

I don't really agree with that. To begin with, I don't really make a sharp
A-story, B-story distinction. It's all about the potentials, and the two
tracks are very linked - especially the culminating vampire fight for both
where Buffy's words apply directly to Dawn and everybody has to fight
without Buffy's help.

This is also my favorite episode for the potentials in general. The group
scenes of them without Buffy interfering are all good bonding scenes showing
a strong sense of internal excitement at - well, their potential. For the
moment, Buffy seems to have won the morale battle. And Amanda, at least,
seems a natural.

When Buffy is added in, I think it mostly works too - even though she does
lecture a lot. But this episode, the lecturing is mostly well directed and
effective. Also tempered by the amusement over her Spike and Clem moments.
(Do you think Buffy heard Kennedy wonder if she dated Clem too? How about
that for a shipper idea? It got one of my bigger laughs of the episode.)
While such things aren't exactly respectful to their leader, it has to
humanize Buffy too, and I think is probably good for their relationship now.

The speech in the basement early in the episode is where I think Buffy
pushed the envelope. Aside from droning on a bit, all that death talk...
She ought to be careful about dwelling on that too much. I agree that it's
important, but most people still need positive frames of mind to be most
effective.

That speech has some pretty powerful stuff in it though, and is another
place that speaks to the slayer/potential relationship. Scythe pointed to
the part about death being what a slayer lives. And, yes, I think that does
show that she's been thinking about that. But I'd like to point to a couple
things framing that.

Buffy: You're all gonna die.

Her first words to them. Ouch. And then later...

Buffy: Some of us will die in this battle.

Flashback for a moment to Triangle when a truly desperate Buffy still
wouldn't concede an inch.

Buffy: We're all gonna make it. I'm not losing anyone.

(And, incidentally, she ultimately *didn't* lose anybody she was
protecting - except for herself. The Knights weren't so lucky.) This is a
notable change in attitude. She's conceding casualties before the battle
has even been defined. Of course she's seen two potentials go down and
knows of many more. But they weren't really under her protection. One
hadn't made it to her yet. The other had run away.

> My other biggest problem with "Potential" is that it feels that it
> needs to bring its main character down excessively in order to elevate
> her at the end.

I don't feel that at all. I think she acquitted herself very well on all
fronts - especially remembering that she wasn't really a potential. Then
she had a very natural letdown about not being chosen - which she also took
very maturely. I see this episode as, in part, a kind of graduation for
Dawn. By settling that she really isn't going to be a slayer, she can let
go of Buffy a little and actually be herself.

> Also, on a related topic, there's a difference that
> the writers don't seem to have grasped between being reckless and
> kinda dumb and being a complete fucking moron. Once the vampire is
> mentioned, it's clear that Dawn's going to go after it on her own.
> That's reckless and kinda dumb. Dawn has been doing reckless and
> kinda dumb since being introduced, and it's getting overdone; I
> rolled my eyes. But then later it's revealed that she charged in,
> with a supposed helpless innocent in tow, without a weapon of any kind

> (and stakes aren't hard to come by in this town; break one off from a

> fence on the walk to school or something), something that a

> full-fledged Slayer might hesitate to do, let alone a trainee.

A full-fledged slayer, like say, Faith, might hesitate. Well, maybe not
her. Well, then, Buffy. Ooops. No. Just last episode Buffy walked in
without a weapon for no discernable reason.

It's last episode that strikes me as nonsensical. But having done that with
Buffy, I think they're almost obligated to repeat it with Dawn. Copying
Buffy is what she's doing. Right down to sneaking out the window and having
the confidence that she'll find a way.

Buffy: I always find a way. (Showtime)

> Andrew's starting to get a little tiresome with the one extended joke
> over and over (for those who haven't gotten it, he's totally
> incapable of shutting up about geeky things. Get it?), but some of the

> others' reactions are still pretty funny. The way their scenes are

> played makes me wonder whether the show is actually considering hooking
> him up with Dawn, and I have no idea how to feel about that.

They snuck more in with Andrew this episode than you give 'em credit for. I
already mentioned the womanhood metaphor. There's a couple other things I
think worth noting.

Andrew: I'm not begging.
Buffy: You're like a small dog dancing for Snausages.
Andrew: You don't want me coming along 'cause you think I'm evil.
Vi: He doesn't seem evil, exactly.
Buffy: He's not evil, but when he gets close to it, he picks up its flavor

like a mushroom or something.

(I left in the Snausages 'cause it makes me laugh.) We all know about how
Andrew is lost in his fantasy world and has no moral center of his own. But
Buffy observes a specific manifestation of that - how he's influenced by
what he's around. And this episode we start seeing a little deeper impact
of his time in the Summers house.

Note how distressed Andrew is when, in the middle of a group argument he
says, "Why do we always have to yell?" And his sincerity a little later,
when Buffy is thinking of canceling the potential outing. "They were so
excited. You're gonna break their little hearts." Andrew is getting
invested in this group - especially the potentials, evidently. He's
starting to care about these people. Hardly full redemption yet - or even a
little. But I don't think it's bad.

> So, action over. the episode is cruising along to a close, and I'm
> mentally assigning it a mid-to-high Decent rating. Then there's a
> final exchange between Dawn and Buffy, which is a few sentences long,
> without much connection. Xander, on the other hand, is the one who has
> a better sense of what she's gone through. His mouth has saved the
> world, and he's got another speech saved up for this scene, and
> it's a great one, one of the best the show has ever produced. He
> manages to spend half of the time talking about himself, but with a
> purpose, driving home the camaraderie with Dawn and the isolation of
> those who're always going to be a little outside. Lines like "I
> see more than anybody realizes" seem a little egocentric, but they
> also seem extremely Xander. And while there's some
> retrospective-on-the-series function, the end result is about
> convincing Dawn that she's appreciated, and at least to someone,
> extraordinary. I'm guessing at least during the first take or two,
> Trachtenberg didn't have to fake any tears, since it would take a
> heart harder than stone to be unmoved. With or without a cape,
> superpowers don't really suit these two: whether they like it or not,
> they were born to be the normal ones. And one could argue that the
> show needs to represent the normals' perspective sometimes.

I agree that this is one of the show's best speeches. Perfect timing and
content to leave everybody smiling contentedly in a rare BtVS life is good
moment. As for the boost to Dawn and favorable reflection on Xander's
character, I'm content to leave your words stand - as well as your sweet
lyrics.

But there's something else in this moment that I think deserves
consideration too.

Dawn: Maybe that's your power.
Xander: What?
Dawn: Seeing. Knowing.
Xander: Maybe it is.

I asked you once what you thought Xander's function was in the series. I
recall you saying that it was uncertain. And, indeed, I think the writers
have been uncertain about it over time too. It's common to speak of his
heart. Which certainly is an important presence from time to time. But,
when speaking of the show's heart, I can't really get past Buffy.

This episode is when I realized what his primary function is and really
always has been. He's the witness. Dr. Watson. Samwise. The normal guy
that's always there. Sometimes drawn into the action. Sometimes even as
hero. But mainly just there to see it all. Maybe to tell. In a sense he
makes it all real. Just being the normal guy amidst extraordinary people.

Anyway, for a long time I've used my own device centered around Xander as a
way to watch the show. What I imagine is an older Xander with grandkids on
the way, having raised his own kids on Buffy stories. His kids were always
thrilled by the stories (they're pretty good after all) and are now watching
them being told to the grandkids. So they decide that these stories are too
good to leave as family bedtime tales, and get it in their heads to share
them with the world. Eventually resulting in the TV series. In this
meta-fantasy, the stories are true, but the TV episodes depictions.

Which is a subtle distinction that usually doesn't matter much. (In the
more normal sense the shows are just depictions of stories anyway.) The
advantage of it for me is that by incorporating the production itself into
the fantasy, it becomes easier to let go of acting, production and/or
writing problems as simply less than perfect depictions without implying
something wrong with the (true) story itself. I don't have to imagine the
depiction as itself real.

> So...
>
> One-sentence summary: Uneven episode, but some highlight moments for a
> couple characters who're too often unevenly written.
>
> AOQ rating: Good

Good for me too.

OBS

Michael Ikeda

unread,

Sep 27, 2006, 7:26:13 PM9/27/06

to

Jeff Jacoby <jja...@not.real.com> wrote in
news:U8-dnTzxM_-uVofY...@comcast.com:

> On Wed, 27 Sep 2006 18:06:05 -0000,
> <chr...@removethistoreply.gwu.edu> wrote:
>> Arbitrar Of Quality <tsm...@wildmail.com> wrote:
>
> [snip]

>> Why was the vampire lying in wait for them? Did he have the

>> slightest reason to think Amanda would come back?
>
> You could fanwank it this way: He's kind of dumb and thinks
> maybe there's a bio lab around with some blood to drink
> (okay, he'd have to be really dumb!). While prowling around
> he hears voices outside the door. "Aha!" he thinks, "the Happy
> Meal has come back." Thinking what a lucky vamp he is he jumps
> into ceiling alcove to wait for them to enter.

He simply hadn't gotten around to breaking out of the room that
Amanda had locked him into. Perhaps he hadn't realized that he could
break out or perhaps he was trying to find an easier way out. Then
he heard Amanda and Dawn outside the door and decided it would be
easier to ambush them after they came in.

--
Michael Ikeda mmi...@erols.com
"Telling a statistician not to use sampling is like telling an
astronomer they can't say there is a moon and stars"
Lynne Billard, past president American Statistical Association

ravimotha

unread,

Sep 27, 2006, 7:38:15 PM9/27/06

to

Seaons 2 didn't aapear to have direction for a while, but they were
very subtly layering in stuff during the early Monster of the week
phase, something that was necessary in the building of the show..

> > ~H
>
> IAWTP. The themes (and arc) of S7 are there from beginning to end,
> carried through from episode to episode (even in the less than stellar
> ones), and is more tightly woven than any other IMHO.

My disagreement with S7 is not necessarily that the the themes are set
up early, then it's almost as if they forget about them but keep it
there tangentially, and then pick it.. which for me destroys the build
up.

I can't remember which show it was (something SciFi) but they started
out of the gate really fast, then it just went of the boil and then
came back to the main arc..but it had lost some of the dramtic tension.
With the other season, there is usually a shorter time frame fro the
major arc, and they normally do very little early set up , and then
get going.

obviously My opinion.

it terms of Story structure I think babylon 5 got it better. especially
in the third and fourth series.

regards
Ravi

Arbitrar Of Quality

unread,

Sep 27, 2006, 7:48:06 PM9/27/06

to

Malsperanza wrote:

> I always enjoy these, but you left out one important bit this time. The
> dialogue should read thus:
>
> BUFFY: Because if you make that one mistake, then it's over. You're not
> the Slayer... you're not a potential... you're dead. So what do you
> know? Right now, the only thing you know for sure? You got me. (She
> drops the stake, backs out of the crypt with Spike and slams the door,
> locking the terrified potentials inside with the vampire.)
> SPIKE: Buffy, please... People are going to die.
> BUFFY: And yet, somehow, I just can't seem to care.
> (They embrace passionately.)

You don't watch the other show, right? It's a play on a scene from
_Angel_ that also does not end with anyone embracing passionately.

-AOQ

Arbitrar Of Quality

unread,

Sep 27, 2006, 7:55:26 PM9/27/06

to

Stephen Tempest wrote:
> "Arbitrar Of Quality" <tsm...@wildmail.com> writes:
>
> >But then later it's revealed that she charged in,
> >with a supposed helpless innocent in tow, without a weapon of any kind
> >(and stakes aren't hard to come by in this town; break one off from a
> >fence on the walk to school or something)
>
> Isn't this contradictory? If stakes are so easy to find, why does she
> need to bring one? And in the event, she does indeed manage to
> improvise one on the spot. (Although probably hurting her knee in the
> process).

Um, because if she brings a stake, she's immediately armed and ready to
kill. Not being a Slayer, it's certainly possible that she'll miss the
heart or it'll get batted away or something, but it gives her a
fighting chance that doesn't rely on stumbling across a weapon five
minutes later after almost getting eaten.

One thing no one else has talked about, probably because she's lucky
enough that it works out perfectly for all involved, is bringing Amanda
along. She's not only endangering herself, but seems likely to get
someone else killed.

> Plus, from Amanda's explanation I got the impression she thought the
> vampire would still be unconscious on the classroom floor when they
> arrived.

Cuz monsters never jump out at one unexpectedly.

-AOQ

Mel

unread,

Sep 27, 2006, 8:02:17 PM9/27/06

to

Apteryx wrote:
> "Arbitrar Of Quality" <tsm...@wildmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1159314979.2...@m7g2000cwm.googlegroups.com...
>

>>A reminder: Please avoid spoilers for later episodes in these review
>>threads.
>>
>>

>>BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER
>>Season Seven, Episode 12: "Potential"

>>(or "This one goes out to the one I've left behind")
>>Writer: Rebecca Rand Kirshner
>>Director: James A. Contner
>>

>>Dawn The Vampire Slayer-To-Be, huh? Once the spell begins to
>>"fail," it becomes increasingly clear to the viewer that the little
>>glowy light is going to (apparently) settle on her. It feels like
>>it's about time, at least to everyone except the potential Slayer in
>>question. Dawn was a central plot device of S5, and has been drifting
>>since the ball of energy origins stopped being relevant. In S6 she was
>>inconsistently portrayed and important primarily for her effect on her
>>sister. This year she's become an actual character of note, but
>>there've been few Buffy/Dawn interactions worth mentioning (and
>>really, what more is there to say?). So after all the time she's
>>spent wanting to get involved in the supernatural, it seems right for
>>her to have greatness or deadness or both thrust upon her.
>
>

> Dunno how plausible it really is - if they'll take someone who was a
> mystical ball of energy made flesh by a bunch of monks, they'll take anyone.
> But they sell it well.

>
>
>>There are a few wrinkles in all the extended early D/W/X/A/Andr scenes
>>hanging around the foyer. There's Dawn being overwhelmed by how this
>>will change everything, clearly too shocked to be pleased. Her friends
>>are intimately aware of all the bad that comes along with this good,
>>yet they're trying to make her happy and excited, by force if
>>necessary.
>
>

> Most of Dawn's reactions are as if she is already assuming she's the next
> Slayer. But we can see by the number of potentials to every Slayer that the
> odds of that are poor. What it really means for her to be a potential is, as
> Anya points out, the Bringers will try to kill her, and as Willow points
> out, Buffy will try to train her. I'm not sure which is the bigger threat.

>
>
>>There's time for somewhat quieter stories like this when there's a
>>lull in the main plot (I noticed Giles isn't in this one). Ongoing
>>training for those already Chosen involves getting a little help from
>>Spike, all fresh and redeemed now. Funny how these things go. The
>>first scene with the MC5 is a pleasant little moment, between "cuz
>>the black chick always gets it first?" "I have learned a valuable
>>lesson of some sort. Ow!" and "that's hot." The bar is all
>>right too, since it has the show's best silly one-note character,
>>Clem, in it - S7 had been sorely lacking in the Clem department. The
>>parts with this crowd afterward, though? EVS. The series may still
>>remember that they're just side characters and use the scenes to
>>focus on Buffy, but hearing her wit and wisdom about what it means to
>>be the Slayer, again, gets less interesting the longer it goes on. Her
>>words seem mainly designed as a complement to the action interspersed
>>with it from the A-story, but despite their obvious relevance, it's
>>not a very effective device. The loud and pretentious dialogue
>>distracts from and actively hurts Dawn's parts a little instead of
>>enhancing them. At least Buffy and Spike leaving the girls in a locked
>>room with a vamp is a little more memorable.
>
>

> Agree that the early training sessions (with Spike and in the bar) are
> good - seems almost like you do have a sense of humour after all - nah,
> can't be that - and that it drags later. Being a good Slayer doesn't make
> Buffy a good trainer of Slayers. Odd that she takes it on when she has
> someone on her team who we've seen actually is a good trainer of Slayers.

> But locking the girls in with the vampire strikes an odd note. Even the WC
> would've let them get 2 years experience of fighting vampires before it took
> away their Slayer powers and did that.
>
>

They are on a crash course in learning how to fight vamps. They don't
have a 2 year cushion, more like a 2 month (if that) cushion. Plus,
being deprived of Slayer strength after having it for 3+ years is a lot
more difficult to overcome than never having it.

Mel

Arbitrar Of Quality

unread,

Sep 27, 2006, 8:05:24 PM9/27/06

to

Elisi wrote:
>
> The way their scenes are
> > played makes me wonder whether the show is actually considering hooking

> > him [Andrew] up with Dawn, and I have no idea how to feel about that.

>
> Huh? If you hadn't noticed, he's gay...

Or certainly suggested, but it's been long enough since S6 (don't
remember anything suggesting which way(s) he swings this year) that I'd
managed to not even remember that when I wrote that. He's also
expressed interests in women, although he could have just be fronting
for his Trio-mates' benefit. (Or, given the show's somewhat
nonsensical views about sexual orientation, he could "find out" that
he's straight.)

> > Did Anya keep what she and Giles learned last episode to herself?
>
> Not sure. I guess they told Buffy at least.

Is there any evidence either way?

-AOQ

Arbitrar Of Quality

unread,

Sep 27, 2006, 8:33:35 PM9/27/06

to

One Bit Shy wrote:

> But Dawn doesn't end up a potential. Although an important part of this
> episode is about her and her "normal" fate, she's also a device used to
> stand in for all of the potentials so that we can better get an emotional
> understanding of them. Dawn's fears are theirs. The thoughts of others
> about what it means for Dawn applies to all. Ultimately the episode is more
> about the potentials than it is about Dawn.

Wouldn't it be nice if they were interesting enough for us to want to
get an emotional understanding of them? I'm not contradicting the
device, but since everyone's going to react differently depending on
personality and temperment and such, I'm more interested in what the
episode says about Dawn's experience than about anyone else.

> > Her
> > words seem mainly designed as a complement to the action interspersed
> > with it from the A-story, but despite their obvious relevance, it's
> > not a very effective device. The loud and pretentious dialogue
> > distracts from and actively hurts Dawn's parts a little instead of
> > enhancing them. At least Buffy and Spike leaving the girls in a locked
> > room with a vamp is a little more memorable.
>
> I don't really agree with that. To begin with, I don't really make a sharp
> A-story, B-story distinction. It's all about the potentials, and the two
> tracks are very linked - especially the culminating vampire fight for both
> where Buffy's words apply directly to Dawn and everybody has to fight
> without Buffy's help.

Oh, no one's denying that the tracks are linked, but some of us just
don't think the marriage plays very well.

> > My other biggest problem with "Potential" is that it feels that it
> > needs to bring its main character down excessively in order to elevate
> > her at the end.
>
> I don't feel that at all. I think she acquitted herself very well on all
> fronts - especially remembering that she wasn't really a potential. Then
> she had a very natural letdown about not being chosen - which she also took
> very maturely.

She handles herself well in the second half of the episode, but that
doesn't entirely offest the part where she's a moron. What's
interesting is that everyone's also treating the fight scene as if
she's doing great, a sign that she's absorbed Buffy's teachings.
There's some of that, but I didn't see it that way. From the moment
the fight starts, she's panicked. She's barely able to keep them
alive, but can't slow the vampire down much, and can't use any weapons
effectively. That's why she can't even explain a plan without being
given cause to scream after nevery other word. That's why she has to
admit to Amanda, and herself, that she doesn't know what she's doing.

So yeah, I feel like the episode brings her down both through unwise
decisions and through the discovery that she's not a Slayer. Her
biggest triumph isn't her determination (although I'm not dismissing
that), but how quickly she understands and acts on that. From a
writer's standpoint, this requires the discovery, but not the
stupidity.

> I see this episode as, in part, a kind of graduation for
> Dawn. By settling that she really isn't going to be a slayer, she can let
> go of Buffy a little and actually be herself.

I like that.

> But there's something else in this moment that I think deserves
> consideration too.
>
> Dawn: Maybe that's your power.
> Xander: What?
> Dawn: Seeing. Knowing.
> Xander: Maybe it is.
>
> I asked you once what you thought Xander's function was in the series. I
> recall you saying that it was uncertain. And, indeed, I think the writers
> have been uncertain about it over time too. It's common to speak of his
> heart. Which certainly is an important presence from time to time. But,
> when speaking of the show's heart, I can't really get past Buffy.
>
> This episode is when I realized what his primary function is and really
> always has been. He's the witness. Dr. Watson. Samwise. The normal guy
> that's always there. Sometimes drawn into the action. Sometimes even as
> hero. But mainly just there to see it all. Maybe to tell. In a sense he
> makes it all real. Just being the normal guy amidst extraordinary people.

That'll be interesting to think about when re-watching. On the one
hand, I agree that the show hasn't always had a sense of that, but on
the other, his relation to Buffy, from the beginning, seems tailor-made
for that kind of role.

-AOQ

One Bit Shy

unread,

Sep 27, 2006, 9:19:49 PM9/27/06

to

"Arbitrar Of Quality" <tsm...@wildmail.com> wrote in message

news:1159403615....@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...

> One Bit Shy wrote:
>
>> But Dawn doesn't end up a potential. Although an important part of this
>> episode is about her and her "normal" fate, she's also a device used to
>> stand in for all of the potentials so that we can better get an emotional
>> understanding of them. Dawn's fears are theirs. The thoughts of others
>> about what it means for Dawn applies to all. Ultimately the episode is
>> more
>> about the potentials than it is about Dawn.
>
> Wouldn't it be nice if they were interesting enough for us to want to
> get an emotional understanding of them? I'm not contradicting the
> device, but since everyone's going to react differently depending on
> personality and temperment and such, I'm more interested in what the
> episode says about Dawn's experience than about anyone else.

I can't argue with that. As you can probably tell, the Potentials aren't
everyone's favorite idea. I think the show does more with their characters
this episode than most, but they're already working out of a hole, and I
don't think they ever really manage to climb out of it. I'll still give
credit where some effort is made that direction.

>> > My other biggest problem with "Potential" is that it feels that it
>> > needs to bring its main character down excessively in order to elevate
>> > her at the end.
>>
>> I don't feel that at all. I think she acquitted herself very well on all
>> fronts - especially remembering that she wasn't really a potential. Then
>> she had a very natural letdown about not being chosen - which she also
>> took
>> very maturely.
>
> She handles herself well in the second half of the episode, but that
> doesn't entirely offest the part where she's a moron. What's
> interesting is that everyone's also treating the fight scene as if
> she's doing great, a sign that she's absorbed Buffy's teachings.
> There's some of that, but I didn't see it that way. From the moment
> the fight starts, she's panicked. She's barely able to keep them
> alive, but can't slow the vampire down much, and can't use any weapons
> effectively. That's why she can't even explain a plan without being
> given cause to scream after nevery other word. That's why she has to
> admit to Amanda, and herself, that she doesn't know what she's doing.

I confess I'm puzzled. That's the story. She thinks she's a Potential -
and then finds she's not. I think she handled herself very well in the
fight - for someone who isn't what she mistakingly thought she was. The
places she falters in the fight (and the lead up to it for that matter) is
the process of revealing the truth. You speak of her being brought down
excessively, when all I see is her being brought down to who she really is -
which ain't half bad. Just not a potential slayer.

> So yeah, I feel like the episode brings her down both through unwise
> decisions and through the discovery that she's not a Slayer. Her
> biggest triumph isn't her determination (although I'm not dismissing
> that), but how quickly she understands and acts on that. From a
> writer's standpoint, this requires the discovery, but not the
> stupidity.

Yes, her handling of the truth and disappointment is her triumph - the thing
that Xander speaks to her of. That's not a contradiction - certainly not
excessively bringing her down.

What you describe as the stupidity, I think of as bravado and Buffy
imitation built largely out of her mistaken idea that she's a Potential.
It's also built out of listening to Xander and Anya and Willow argue about
what's best for her and treating her like a baby. (In Dawn's mind anyway.)
She acts on her own because she thinks it's important to act on her own for
both reasons.

And when the truth is revealed she truly acts on her own as she really is
and excels at it. (Including, mind you, completing her vampire plan by
torching the Bringers.) She grew up a little there. Xander made her see it
and feel good about it. But he didn't elevate her. She did that on her
own.

OBS

Ian Galbraith

unread,

Sep 27, 2006, 10:11:42 PM9/27/06

to

On 27 Sep 2006 16:38:15 -0700, ravimotha wrote:

[snip]

> it terms of Story structure I think babylon 5 got it better. especially
> in the third and fourth series.

Babylon 5 was too extreme to become a widespread model. Buffy gets it
right IMHO, story arcs that last a season with threads that build up over
seasons until they become seasonal arcs themselves.

--
You can't stop the signal

Ian Galbraith

unread,

Sep 27, 2006, 10:11:43 PM9/27/06

to

On 27 Sep 2006 17:33:35 -0700, Arbitrar Of Quality wrote:

> One Bit Shy wrote:
>
>> But Dawn doesn't end up a potential. Although an important part of this
>> episode is about her and her "normal" fate, she's also a device used to
>> stand in for all of the potentials so that we can better get an emotional
>> understanding of them. Dawn's fears are theirs. The thoughts of others
>> about what it means for Dawn applies to all. Ultimately the episode is more
>> about the potentials than it is about Dawn.
>
> Wouldn't it be nice if they were interesting enough for us to want to
> get an emotional understanding of them? I'm not contradicting the
> device, but since everyone's going to react differently depending on
> personality and temperment and such, I'm more interested in what the
> episode says about Dawn's experience than about anyone else.

I think it does a pretty good job of being both about Dawn and the
experience of being a potential. As for getting more understanding about
the potentials themselves, there were complaints about how much time was
devoted to them as it was, there simply isn't the time to do more with
them.

[snip]

Arbitrar Of Quality

unread,

Sep 28, 2006, 1:52:04 AM9/28/06

to

We're both fine on that part. The "excessive" comes from the fact that
she rushes to release a trapped vampire without telling anyone, despite
clearly being a non-Slayer, bringing along a seemingly nice Happy Meal
for it, and can't be bothered to make any kind of preparations that
would give her a chance in hell of winning. Yes, Dawn's all
emotionally mixed up, yes Buffy did something kinda similar for very
different reasons last episode. I just think if the show had let her
show some semblance of competence in the buildup, the part in which
things spiral out of her control would've resonated more.

-AOQ

Paul Hyett

unread,

Sep 28, 2006, 3:29:47 AM9/28/06

to

In alt.tv.buffy-v-slayer on Wed, 27 Sep 2006, wrote :
>
>There seem to be a lot of mystical ways to find Potentials. Willow's
>spell is obviously different from whatever the Coven and the Watchers'
>Council used to find Potentials, since it would only work at close range.
>

I can only assume that Willow was reluctant to risk casting such a
wide-ranging spell, given that she is terrified of reverting to the Dark
Side.

It's certainly not a lack of power, since Anya described her as 'the
most powerful wicca in the Western hemisphere'

>
>> The bar is all
>> right too,
>
>Recently I watched this ep with the English subtitles turned on, and was
>amused to see that the pig's blood spritzers were rendered as "pig's butt
>spritzers."

BTW, what happens if the vampire is/was a Muslim...

>
>Why was the vampire lying in wait for them? Did he have the slightest
>reason to think Amanda would come back?

He know *someone* would.
--
Paul 'Charts Fan' Hyett

mariposas rand mair fheal greykitten tomys des anges

unread,

Sep 28, 2006, 5:47:07 AM9/28/06

to

In article <C$sa5mGFq...@blueyonder.co.uk>,
Paul Hyett <p...@nojunkmailplease.co.uk> wrote:

> In alt.tv.buffy-v-slayer on Wed, 27 Sep 2006, wrote :
> >
> >There seem to be a lot of mystical ways to find Potentials. Willow's
> >spell is obviously different from whatever the Coven and the Watchers'
> >Council used to find Potentials, since it would only work at close range.
> >
> I can only assume that Willow was reluctant to risk casting such a
> wide-ranging spell, given that she is terrified of reverting to the Dark
> Side.
>
> It's certainly not a lack of power, since Anya described her as 'the
> most powerful wicca in the Western hemisphere'
> >
> >> The bar is all
> >> right too,
> >
> >Recently I watched this ep with the English subtitles turned on, and was
> >amused to see that the pig's blood spritzers were rendered as "pig's butt
> >spritzers."
>
> BTW, what happens if the vampire is/was a Muslim...

theyre evil

they defy allah and all his works
even if theyre unsure on the existence of allah

mariposas rand mair fheal greykitten tomys des anges

unread,

Sep 28, 2006, 5:57:53 AM9/28/06

to

> Um, because if she brings a stake, she's immediately armed and ready to
> kill. Not being a Slayer, it's certainly possible that she'll miss the
> heart or it'll get batted away or something, but it gives her a
> fighting chance that doesn't rely on stumbling across a weapon five
> minutes later after almost getting eaten.

by the end of the incident
i wouldve been happy to have dawn bitten turned and staked by buffy

Rincewind

unread,

Sep 28, 2006, 8:46:53 AM9/28/06

to

"Arbitrar Of Quality" <tsm...@wildmail.com> wrote:
> Rincewind wrote:

>> "Arbitrar Of Quality" <tsm...@wildmail.com> wrote:
>
>> > Also, on a related topic, there's a difference that
>> > the writers don't seem to have grasped between being reckless and
>> > kinda dumb and being a complete fucking moron.
>>

>> Kinda like in Showtime?
>
> Several people have compared Dawn here and Buffy in the last episode.
> While the latter may have inspired the former, it doesn't make the
> former any less stupid.

Ok, I'm having some problem to undertand exactly which is the former and
which is the latter...
I assume what you are saying is: Buffy's reckless behaviour in Showtime
inspired Dawn's behaviour in Potential, but it's not enough to justify
Dawn's stupidity.
If that is what you are saying then I agree.
My remark "Kinda like in Showtime" was not meant to justify Dawn being a
"complete fucking moron", it actually meant "Buffy was a complete fucking
moron too".
Yes, Buffy is a slayer, but she also survived that fight by sheer luck. At
one point the Turok-han had her by the throat and could have snapped her
neck in a second: he didn't do it because the writers told him not to.

>> Lines you'll never hear on Buffy:

>> BUFFY: Because if you make that one mistake, then it's over. You're not
>> the
>> Slayer... you're not a potential... you're dead. So what do you know?
>> Right
>> now, the only thing you know for sure? You got me.
>> (She drops the stake, backs out of the crypt with Spike and slams the
>> door,
>> locking the terrified potentials inside with the vampire.)
>> SPIKE: Buffy, please... People are going to die.
>> BUFFY: And yet, somehow, I just can't seem to care.
>

> Damn, that's funny.

I knew you would like it.

Rincewind.
--
Lines you'll never hear on Buffy:
BUFFY: Say, Giles, what did Beljoxa's Eye tell you and Anya, anyway?

Malsperanza

unread,

Sep 28, 2006, 12:47:33 PM9/28/06

to

Ah, thanks. Funny even without that. Buffy and Spike embracing
passionately while a vampire eats all the Potentials is a little
fantasy of mine.

~Mal

Malsperanza

unread,

Sep 28, 2006, 12:50:45 PM9/28/06

to

One Bit Shy wrote:

[snip]

> I asked you once what you thought Xander's function was in the series. I
> recall you saying that it was uncertain. And, indeed, I think the writers
> have been uncertain about it over time too. It's common to speak of his
> heart. Which certainly is an important presence from time to time. But,
> when speaking of the show's heart, I can't really get past Buffy.
>
> This episode is when I realized what his primary function is and really
> always has been. He's the witness. Dr. Watson. Samwise. The normal guy
> that's always there. Sometimes drawn into the action. Sometimes even as
> hero. But mainly just there to see it all. Maybe to tell. In a sense he
> makes it all real. Just being the normal guy amidst extraordinary people.

Or even a sort of Ishmael: The One Who Survives to Tell the Story.

~Mal

One Bit Shy

unread,

Sep 28, 2006, 1:38:47 PM9/28/06

to

"Malsperanza" <malsp...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1159462245....@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...

Ishmael is certainly a witness too. Being the one to tell the story is
often part of the role, but it doesn't have to be. I think the idea rests
more on being the one who remembers. (Which does imply survival.) The
others - the heroes - are too busy living the story. Making it.

Call me Xander. Heh.

OBS

ravimotha

unread,

Sep 28, 2006, 4:10:35 PM9/28/06

to

Oh I agree , I thionk Buffy does the season to season thing Much better
than BabyLon5 and pretty much most shows on television period.

What I think babylon 5 does slightl, and only just , is the concept of
an overall arc for the entire show.

in both Cases it is the bravery and also knowledge of the 2 briliant
writers at the helm
JMS and Joss respectively.

I think if Joss had tried this with Buffy from the very start, I think
he WOULD have done it better, but since it's inception as a mid season
replacement. He had no such luxuries. In many ways for him to try the
stuff with the master and the annoying one, was incredilbly brave, but
that streak of bravura is part of the charm and the mythos of joss and
his creations

If Firefly had been given the luxury of time, I feel this is what we
were looking forward to.
I the "original" first episode, there are 2 things things that are laid
in, which would could have provided long term arc (Blue Sun + alliance
and the reavers)

JMS battled with the execs on a different level, as he was trying to
sell them on the entirety.
However there is a really good babylon 5 site which dissects the
episodes and Themes
(http://www.midwinter.com/lurk/countries/us/eplist.html I think this is
it) and also includes rebuttal from JMS including some interestinnotes
on his structuring of the writing of each season (it also shows him
taking on too much of the load to sustain it for extreme lengths of
time

Angel was interesting because I often liked what they were trying to
do, but I was often felt let down by the overall execution.

Sci_ FI as e medium I think often allows viewers to suspend reality
better, and this allows the writers to take these bolder steps in terms
of plotting.

There ahve been some very good shows which attempt this to varying
degrees.
Lost - is probaly the best current example
Twin Peaks

in terms of more realistic shows:
Murder One was very good, though overly dramatic
The West Wing though there were no real seasonal arc, or overall arcs,
it was all really a series of small arcs (winning an election, getting
a bill passed, or setting up for some conflict)

honorable mentions to
the fugitive

Veronica Mars is also worth mentioning

Note: I am limiting this to stuff that I have seen

I think the paucity of the list shows the difficulty of doing this in
a TV series..

regards
Ravi

Ian Galbraith

unread,

Sep 28, 2006, 11:00:42 PM9/28/06

to

On 28 Sep 2006 13:10:35 -0700, ravimotha wrote:

[snip]

> Sci_ FI as e medium I think often allows viewers to suspend reality
> better, and this allows the writers to take these bolder steps in terms
> of plotting.

> There ahve been some very good shows which attempt this to varying
> degrees.
> Lost - is probaly the best current example
> Twin Peaks

> in terms of more realistic shows:
> Murder One was very good, though overly dramatic
> The West Wing though there were no real seasonal arc, or overall arcs,
> it was all really a series of small arcs (winning an election, getting
> a bill passed, or setting up for some conflict)

The best example currently is The Wire on HBO. It has rigorous season
arcs based around cops investigating 1 large case for the season, with
multiple smaller arcs hanging off the main case that all serve to help
illuminate the themes. S3 of The Wire is my favorite TV season of any
show.

In fact S1-3 sort of form 1 larger story. In S1 and S3 the main case is
essentially the same, there was a different main case in S2 but there
were arcs bridging the gap between S1 and S3. S4 has just started and is
a continuation of minor arcs begun in S3.

[snip]

ravimotha

unread,

Sep 30, 2006, 12:53:23 PM9/30/06

to

Ian Galbraith wrote:
>>
> The best example currently is The Wire on HBO. It has rigorous season
> arcs based around cops investigating 1 large case for the season, with
> multiple smaller arcs hanging off the main case that all serve to help
> illuminate the themes. S3 of The Wire is my favorite TV season of any
> show.

I have heard phenomenal things about The Wire, and from a variety of
different sources. I am sort of surprised that it hasn't been pushed
more.

Does anyone know if it's likely to get to terrestrial TV in the UK...
or if it is being broadcast in the UK in any form???

regards
Ravi

Malsperanza

unread,

Sep 30, 2006, 1:48:06 PM9/30/06

to

Dunno. But the first season is out on DVD...

~Mal

James Craine

unread,

Oct 9, 2006, 10:21:56 PM10/9/06

to

mariposas rand mair fheal greykitten tomys des anges wrote:
>
>>BTW, what happens if the vampire is/was a Muslim...
>
>
> theyre evil
>
> they defy allah and all his works
> even if theyre unsure on the existence of allah

If a muslim vampire took sides in the war-on-terror (tm),
which side would it be?

James Craine

unread,

Oct 9, 2006, 10:21:58 PM10/9/06

to

One Bit Shy wrote:

> Anyway, for a long time I've used my own device centered around Xander as a
> way to watch the show. What I imagine is an older Xander with grandkids on
> the way, having raised his own kids on Buffy stories. His kids were always
> thrilled by the stories (they're pretty good after all) and are now watching
> them being told to the grandkids. So they decide that these stories are too
> good to leave as family bedtime tales, and get it in their heads to share
> them with the world. Eventually resulting in the TV series. In this
> meta-fantasy, the stories are true, but the TV episodes depictions.
>

Great idea. And it could all be told against the backdrop of
the early part of his life leading up to.. and the title
could be... "How I Met Your Grandmother".

mariposas rand mair fheal greykitten tomys des anges

unread,

Oct 9, 2006, 11:50:03 PM10/9/06

to

In article <8tDWg.234691$QM6.1...@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
James Craine <James...@Hotmail.com> wrote:

psst which side are you on

side two

youre with us
come with me

where are you taking me

they have to take him as close to the grid
as is humanly possible

for grid goofy and st mickey