Revisiting AOQ Review 1-12: "Prophecy Girl"

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Apteryx

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Mar 26, 2007, 9:19:05 PM3/26/07
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> From: "Arbitrar Of Quality" <tsm...@wildmail.com>
> Date: Jan 24 2006, 2:57 pm
> Subject: AOQ Review 1-12: "Prophecy Girl"
> To: alt.tv.buffy-v-slayer
>
>
> A reminder: Please avoid spoilers for later episodes in these review
> threads.
>
> BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER
> Season One, Episode 12: "Prophecy Girl"
> (or "So let it be written, so let it be undone")
> Writer: Joss Whedon
> Director: Joss Whedon
>
> Joss takes the camera himself for the final show of the first season.
> I'm not clear on exactly how certain or uncertain the future of
> _Buffy_ was for the creators at this point, but "Prophecy Girl"
> seems like an ending. The major plots of Season One come to a
> conclusion, and the character dynamics reach a point where our heroes
> can walk off into the sunset (i.e. nightclub). And lots of stuff gets
> blowed up real good too. If everything finished here, "Prphecy
> Girl" would put the appropriate cap on Buffy: The Miniseries.

Yep, everything neatly tidied away just in case they didn't make it back.
Well, nearly everything - some loose ends are left, like the oddity of the
Master's bone not turning to dust, and the way Buffy rather mysteriously
came back after being apparently killed by a vampire, and immediately
claimed to feel stronger. Lets just say that first time around, there would
have been some waiting for season two just to make sure that Buffy cast a
reflection, and didn't burst into flame in sunlight.


> It doesn't start that way. In fact, things open pretty generically;
> Xander likes Buffy, the Master likes talking, Buffy tolerates killing
> vampires, and Giles has an affinity for ominous prophecies. But it
> becomes clear early on that it's time to actually move ahead with
> things; I think the moment that really happens is when Xander
> seemingly
> overcomes the script's attempts to drag the scene out and finally
> makes his move on Buffy. From there I like how they quickly brush
> past
> the standard TV attempts to be noncommittal about it ("look, either
> you feel something or you don't") while finding time to slip in a
> joke or two ("... or if she does, she's playing it really close to
> the vest").


Joke?... Yes, of course... joke...
Are there any Buffy/Willow shippers?


> The aftermath is well played; Xander knows he
> shouldn't lash out at Buffy, but it's impossible not to feel at
> least a little angry. She doesn't blame him for that, they
> understand each other, but there's just nothing either of them can
> say to make the situation any less unpleasant. The followup scene
> between Xander and Willow is also pretty good for some of the same
> reasons.
>
> Buffy's day doesn't get any better. Not only has Angel been
> avoiding her, but there's the whole impending death thing. Her
> reaction is to say "fuck it, I don't care about the world."
> Childish in the greater scheme of things, but a reasonable reaction
> from a sixteen-year-old who hasn't quite accepted that life isn't
> fair. This is one of those scenes that I imagine would be difficult
> from an actor's perspective. It calls for the ability to give an
> emotionally-charged monologue that consists mostly of yelling without
> sounding too histrionic or melodramatic, and it moves from sarcasm to
> frustration to violent anger and ends with a mix of guilt and fear
> ("I'm sixteen. I don't want to die."). In any case, Gellar
> absolutely nails the whole thing. A good one for the actor portfolio.
>
> Obviously, this thread echoes "Welcome To the Hellmouth." Back
> then it seemed like a token reluctant-hero routine that served mainly
> to let the show announce to the audience that it was all hip and
> self-aware and stuff. Twelve episodes later, we have a much better
> sense of where Buffy's coming from. The symmetry continues in that
> Willow is the one who ultimately draws Buffy back into Slayership. In
> the end, she's a hero who'll do what has to be done.
>
> Speaking of heroics, let's not forget how awesome it is seeing Xander
> come through in the clutch, realizing that Angel is the key to helping
> Buffy and coming in prepared to deal with him. Xander's actions take
> courage and all that, but also require him to have a good sense of
> what
> he can and can't personally handle. I do wonder how he got ahold of
> our friendly vampire, though: if Angel was ever given a permanent
> address at which he could be reliably found, I missed it. The
> sequence
> makes one wonder what it says about Angel, that he was willing to sit
> around until someone came along to coax him into helping. Now that
> our
> writing staff seems to have finally really figured out who Xander is,
> I
> may have to start pulling for a B/X relationship, although I'm open
> to alternatives. (I also refuse to use the term "shipper" or
> combine characters' names; you gotta have some standards.)
>
> The other development worth mentioning in the early parts of the
> episode is that the show seems to be ready to shake up the core
> four-heroes dynamic by letting Calendar and Cordelia hang out with the
> clique. The former is still entertaining enough, although I can't
> say I really care about her all that much either way; if the writers
> decide that Giles should have someone his own age to banter with, who
> am I to argue?

Even by this point, you really ought to have known that the writers just
aren't that nice. Although this isn't one of Jenny's best episodes. Giles
has texts of proven worth to warn him of the impending apocalypse. Jenny
comes across as a bit flaky when she deduces it from the fact that people
have sent her stories appearing on the 'net about a cat giving birth to a
litter of snakes, a lake suddenly beginning to boil, and a boy was born with
his eyes facing inward. And then claims not to be stupid.

Mind you, the boiling lake combined with the earthquake do deserve to be
taken seriously (if the lake's still boiling, and it wasn't just while the
family were swimming in it), but they suggest impending volcanic eruption
rather more obviously than apocalypse.


> As for the latter character, well, I guess she's
> mysteriously recovered from Sunnydale Forgetty-itis now that it's in
> the script. The exchanges between her and Willow have a good rhythm
> to
> them, enough so that I wonder why the two of them haven't been given
> more scenes together ("I like your dress." "No you don't."
> "Yeah, I really don't, but I do need your help.") A policy of
> mutual tolerance makes sense from both sides; Cordelia gets someone to
> do her nerdy work and indirect access Buffy when needed, and Willow
> gets to pretend to have more than two friends. (Cordelia still sucks,
> though. I'm not backing down on that one so easily.)

After a season-long journey, Cordelia is integrated into the Slayerettes in
this episode. A little bit from this, rather more from the AV room scene.

> Eventually the die is cast and Buffy goes to meet her fate. [BTW,
> Mrs.
> Quality didn't think it seemed quite in-character for her to just
> punch out Giles that way. I disagree.] There're two outstanding
> scenes during this sequence, both of which involve the theme of
> skipping the standard drawn-out stuff and getting on with things. The
> first is Buffy's laconic meeting with Colin. I didn't really
> expect that the prophecy's "lead her into Hell" would turn out to
> be so literal.

Although as the prophecy actually said 'The Slayer will not know him, and he
will lead her
into Hell.', and Buffy's only words to Colin are "It's okay. I know who you
are.", I'd say the Codex's perfect record for never being wrong has been
knocked over the long-on boundary for six.

>And then the initial confrontation with the Master is
> handled perfectly. Buffy, terrified but not showing it at all. The
> Master sees right through it, starts to suggest that they skip the
> "feeble banter stage," and she shoots him mid-sentence. So very
> BTVS.
>
> For the record, CPR doesn't tend to work very well unless you open an
> airway (by tilting the patient's head) first. Also, unless you have
> one of those electric shocky things (and sometimes even then), CPR
> doesn't too often revive people so much as just keep them alive until
> real help arrives. Just saying.

True. That is of course where the 'Buffy's a vampire' theory could help out.
Of course, even within the confines of this episode, she's have to be a
noble vampire. On a mission of redemption. She helps the hopeless. Maybe a
vampire with a soul.

> Also, I'm afraid I don't really
> buy "clinically dead" as an acceptable prophecy loophole.

Well, I hear prophecies are tricky creatures. They don't tell you
everything. And in any event, while Giles says the Codex is never wrong,
we've already seen it wrong once in this episode. And the Codex has been
missing since the 15th century, so Giles doesn't have any recent evidence of
it making a useful true prediction.

> The ending sequences almost have to be something of a letdown given
> the
> gooey goodness that have lead up to them. They're still quite fun,
> if a little silly for their own good. The car ride through the school
> and the various monsters in the library make me imagine the crew
> saying
> "we've got some leftover budget, and dammit, we're gonna use
> it." It's like a music video. As I was watching the final
> confrontation, I wondered whether it would seem dumb to a new viewer
> who'd just flipped over to the show We care, though, because
> through twelve episodes of varying quality, the series has succeeded
> in
> making us interested in what happens to these people. (Some shows
> benefit from being viewed as a complete work, yes?) In the end, the
> world is saved, and I hope the Master stays dead. He's served his
> purpose; it's time to make a fresh start.
>
> Any idea what happened to Colin?

Yes. Any idea what happened to the multi-headed demon that came out the
hellmouth? (after it was driven back through the hellmouth in The Zeppo I
mean)

> I haven't mentioned the scene with Joyce Summers yet, since it ties
> into the closing thoughts. But I think it's probably my favorite of
> the mother-daughter scenes so far. They can't talk about everything,
> but they do manage real affection from time to time. I assumed that
> Buffy's penchant for stylized one-liners was just the difference
> between Teen Hero and Outside World, but this episode suggests from
> whom she really got her sense of humor ("I'm sure you're just
> feeling full from that food you almost touched.")

Great scene. Great ending too with:

Buffy: And you had your whole life ahead of you.
Joyce: Yeah.
Buffy: Must be nice.

> The dress is too
> nice a gesture to ruin by mentioning that it's less appropriate in
> the face of impending death. And of course it leads to the show's
> big running joke (well, two, if you count the unspoken one that the
> dress somehow stays spotless), which is quite fun. The final
> iteration
> of the gag which closes the episode gives us one last smile, and going
> out with a wry joke seems like an appropriate note on which to
> conclude
> Buffy: The Miniseries.
>
> Well. I think I'll give myself a little summer hiatus, and you can
> speculate over whether my reviews will be renewed for another season
> (hint: yes). Meet me back here in a week or so for Season Two.
>
> So....
>
> One-sentence summary: A near-perfect way to end Season One.
>
> AOQ rating: Excellent

Excellent for me too. Buffy has been through hell, but in the end accepts
that she is indeed the Chosen One. It's my 12th favourite BtVS episode, best
in season 1.

Overall, season 1 has slightly increased it's lead over season 2 for best
BtVS season on my ratings. A year ago the average rating of season 1
episodes was 4.02, while season 2's average then was 4.03 (low scores good).
Season 1 has strengthened slightly for me on this viewing to 3.99, while
season 2 dropped to 4.06 on its last viewing. Still very little to choose
between the first 3 seasons (season 3 was 4.08 a year ago, and retained that
on last viewing). Season 1 has what could be called an unfair advantage of
having only 12 episodes, with less need for lower quality filler episodes
that drag down season 2 in particular.

That's it from me for now. I won't be going on to revisit AOQ's season 2
reviews, because:

1) I already commented on them last year
2) The 1st match of the 2nd round of the cricket world cup starts in 12
hours
3) I believe AOQ is about to start his Firefly reviews, and I'm in a mood to
rewatch that series next (to the extent the cricket allows).

But if anyone else wants to do so, particularly someone who didn't comment
much on those reviews a year ago, that could be interesting.

Apteryx


Rowan Hawthorn

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Mar 27, 2007, 12:19:35 AM3/27/07
to
Apteryx wrote:
>> From: "Arbitrar Of Quality" <tsm...@wildmail.com>
>> Date: Jan 24 2006, 2:57 pm
>> Subject: AOQ Review 1-12: "Prophecy Girl"
>> To: alt.tv.buffy-v-slayer
>>
>>
>> A reminder: Please avoid spoilers for later episodes in these review
>> threads.
>>
>> BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER
>> Season One, Episode 12: "Prophecy Girl"
>> (or "So let it be written, so let it be undone")
>> Writer: Joss Whedon
>> Director: Joss Whedon
>>
>> It doesn't start that way. In fact, things open pretty generically;
>> Xander likes Buffy, the Master likes talking, Buffy tolerates killing
>> vampires, and Giles has an affinity for ominous prophecies. But it
>> becomes clear early on that it's time to actually move ahead with
>> things; I think the moment that really happens is when Xander
>> seemingly
>> overcomes the script's attempts to drag the scene out and finally
>> makes his move on Buffy. From there I like how they quickly brush
>> past
>> the standard TV attempts to be noncommittal about it ("look, either
>> you feel something or you don't") while finding time to slip in a
>> joke or two ("... or if she does, she's playing it really close to
>> the vest").
>
>
> Joke?... Yes, of course... joke...
> Are there any Buffy/Willow shippers?

Oh, Gawd! Are you kidding? There are enough B/W fanfics floating
around to film another seven seasons and then some (not that that's
necessarily *bad*, you understand; unless you're referring to the
quality of most of the fics, in which case, well, yeah, it is...)

Personally, I'm not a B/W 'shipper, but I always *did* suspect Willow
was just a *little* overly jealous when it came to Buffy & Faith to be
accounted for simply by "best friends." ;-)

>
> Mind you, the boiling lake combined with the earthquake do deserve to be
> taken seriously (if the lake's still boiling, and it wasn't just while the
> family were swimming in it), but they suggest impending volcanic eruption
> rather more obviously than apocalypse.

"Signs, signs, everywhere there's signs..."

>> For the record, CPR doesn't tend to work very well unless you open an
>> airway (by tilting the patient's head) first. Also, unless you have
>> one of those electric shocky things (and sometimes even then), CPR
>> doesn't too often revive people so much as just keep them alive until
>> real help arrives. Just saying.
>
> True. That is of course where the 'Buffy's a vampire' theory could help out.
> Of course, even within the confines of this episode, she's have to be a
> noble vampire. On a mission of redemption. She helps the hopeless. Maybe a
> vampire with a soul.

Jeez, how lame is that?

--
Rowan Hawthorn

"Occasionally, I'm callous and strange." - Willow Rosenberg, "Buffy the
Vampire Slayer"

Don Sample

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Mar 27, 2007, 12:45:46 AM3/27/07
to
In article <eu9rfh$i83$1...@aioe.org>, "Apteryx" <apt...@xtra.co.nz>
wrote:

A) She didn't say she felt stronger. She said she felt strong, in
response to Xander saying she was weak.

B) She was still wearing her cross necklace, without any burning.

> > The other development worth mentioning in the early parts of the
> > episode is that the show seems to be ready to shake up the core
> > four-heroes dynamic by letting Calendar and Cordelia hang out with the
> > clique. The former is still entertaining enough, although I can't
> > say I really care about her all that much either way; if the writers
> > decide that Giles should have someone his own age to banter with, who
> > am I to argue?

Though Jenny was really closer to Buffy's age than Giles'.

>
> Even by this point, you really ought to have known that the writers just
> aren't that nice. Although this isn't one of Jenny's best episodes. Giles
> has texts of proven worth to warn him of the impending apocalypse. Jenny
> comes across as a bit flaky when she deduces it from the fact that people
> have sent her stories appearing on the 'net about a cat giving birth to a
> litter of snakes, a lake suddenly beginning to boil, and a boy was born with
> his eyes facing inward. And then claims not to be stupid.
>
> Mind you, the boiling lake combined with the earthquake do deserve to be
> taken seriously (if the lake's still boiling, and it wasn't just while the
> family were swimming in it), but they suggest impending volcanic eruption
> rather more obviously than apocalypse.

But volcanos don't cause litters of snakes, or backwards facing eyes.
It can be assumed that all the reports came from sources that Jenny
considered reliable. There was also a cut line about how all those
incidents took place within three miles of the school.

I always figured that they killed it in "The Zeppo."

--
Quando omni flunkus moritati
Visit the Buffy Body Count at <http://homepage.mac.com/dsample/>

mariposas rand mair fheal greykitten tomys des anges

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Mar 27, 2007, 1:29:52 AM3/27/07
to
In article <dsample-4B584C...@news.giganews.com>,
Don Sample <dsa...@synapse.net> wrote:

> In article <eu9rfh$i83$1...@aioe.org>, "Apteryx" <apt...@xtra.co.nz>
> wrote:
>
> > > From: "Arbitrar Of Quality" <tsm...@wildmail.com>
> > > Date: Jan 24 2006, 2:57 pm
> > > Subject: AOQ Review 1-12: "Prophecy Girl"
> > > To: alt.tv.buffy-v-slayer

this was the only time nerfherder played within the show
until the sunnydale was nigh on ended

i guess they really are a sign of the apocalypse

> > Mind you, the boiling lake combined with the earthquake do deserve to be
> > taken seriously (if the lake's still boiling, and it wasn't just while the
> > family were swimming in it), but they suggest impending volcanic eruption
> > rather more obviously than apocalypse.
>
> But volcanos don't cause litters of snakes, or backwards facing eyes.
> It can be assumed that all the reports came from sources that Jenny
> considered reliable. There was also a cut line about how all those
> incidents took place within three miles of the school.

the moloch incident already established jenny was casting bones
and had contacts with mystical sort of people

> > Yes. Any idea what happened to the multi-headed demon that came out the
> > hellmouth? (after it was driven back through the hellmouth in The Zeppo I
> > mean)
>
> I always figured that they killed it in "The Zeppo."

didnt show up in season seven

meow arf meow - they are performing horrible experiments in space
major grubert is watching you - beware the bakalite
impeach the bastard - the airtight garage has you neo

Arbitrar Of Quality

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Mar 27, 2007, 3:25:06 AM3/27/07
to
On Mar 26, 8:19 pm, "Apteryx" <apte...@xtra.co.nz> wrote:

> Although as the prophecy actually said 'The Slayer will not know him, and he
> will lead her
> into Hell.', and Buffy's only words to Colin are "It's okay. I know who you
> are.", I'd say the Codex's perfect record for never being wrong has been
> knocked over the long-on boundary for six.

Apparently the fact that she didn't know he was the Annoying One back
when he first rose is good enough for the prophecy. There's a very
conscious subverting of the literal meaning of the prophecy while
still letting it hold some power that's typical of the Buffyverse.

I don't have much specific to respond to, but let me say this: I
remembered that "Prophecy Girl" was great. I didn't remember that it
was this great. Rarely has an hour of TV been packed with classic
scene after classic scene. Writing and acting are uniformly superb.
Xander laying his soul bare and getting shot down, Buffy's incredible
library monologue, Willow and Cordelia discovering the bodies while
the cartoon pigs prance around, and so on, all melding together into
some kind of big wonderful meldy thing. Of course, it keeps its focus
clearly on the things that've been most central to the show: the
modern world's take on old-school mythology, the friendship between
Buffy, Xander and Willow, the interactions of Slayer and Watcher, and
most of all, a girl and her chosen (in both directions) destiny.
Rather than delving into the moral complexities and elaborate
motivations that'll characterize other years of the show, PG keeps the
emotions direct and very raw. In other words, it's an ending that's
just right for its season. This may not be a popular viewpoint, but I
say that the Whedonverse never concluded a story this perfectly again
until _Serenity_ (NFA might fare well on re-watching too, though).

I ranked this Excellent originally, but this time I'm going higher.

> Overall, season 1 has slightly increased it's lead over season 2 for best
> BtVS season on my ratings. A year ago the average rating of season 1
> episodes was 4.02, while season 2's average then was 4.03 (low scores good).
> Season 1 has strengthened slightly for me on this viewing to 3.99, while
> season 2 dropped to 4.06 on its last viewing. Still very little to choose
> between the first 3 seasons (season 3 was 4.08 a year ago, and retained that
> on last viewing). Season 1 has what could be called an unfair advantage of
> having only 12 episodes, with less need for lower quality filler episodes
> that drag down season 2 in particular.
>
> That's it from me for now.

Season One is okay. It has its moments, and generally climaxes well,
but doesn't have the consistency of the real greats. There's enough
raw goodness to keep me interested in seeing what the show will be
capable of. I think exactly the same thing about S2, actually. My
ratings stayed pretty much the same on re-watching, with a very slight
decrease overall; 1/4 of the episodes so far have changed positions,
and never by more than one ratings point.

One more time, for list-making's sake...

1) "Welcome To The Hellmouth" - Good
2) "The Harvest" - Decent
3) "Witch" - Good [down from Excellent]
4) "Teacher's Pet" - Weak [down from Decent]
5) "Never Kill A Boy On The First Date" - Decent
6) "The Pack" - Excellent
7) "Angel" - Good
8) "I Robot... You Jane" - Weak
9) "The Puppet Show" - Decent
10) "Nightmares" - Good
11) "Out Of Mind, Out Of Sight" - Decent
12) "Prophecy Girl" - SUPERLATIVE [up from Excellent]

Mike Zeares

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Mar 27, 2007, 5:10:24 AM3/27/07
to
On Mar 27, 2:25 am, "Arbitrar Of Quality" <tsm...@wildmail.com> wrote:

> I don't have much specific to respond to, but let me say this: I
> remembered that "Prophecy Girl" was great. I didn't remember that it
> was this great. Rarely has an hour of TV been packed with classic
> scene after classic scene. Writing and acting are uniformly superb.
> Xander laying his soul bare and getting shot down, Buffy's incredible
> library monologue, Willow and Cordelia discovering the bodies while
> the cartoon pigs prance around, and so on, all melding together into

> some kind of big wonderful meldy thing. [snip]

I really enjoyed that. Bonus points for "big wonderful meldy
thing."

For years this was my Best Episode Ever, and my One Episode To Bring
Them All (i.e. you have one ep to get someone hooked -- which one?).
There are other eps that qualify for the first, but it still might be
my choice for the second. If Buffy's "I don't want to die" speech
doesn't get 'em, they can't be got. Actually, that's not the line
that gets me. It's that quiet little, "Do you think it'll hurt?" that
does it. And then with the book throwing and, "Read me the signs!
Tell me my fortune!" I think it's the most raw performance that SMG
ever gave in the series, and it blows me away every single time.

> In other words, it's an ending that's
> just right for its season. This may not be a popular viewpoint, but I
> say that the Whedonverse never concluded a story this perfectly again
> until _Serenity_ (NFA might fare well on re-watching too, though).

I have to think about that. "Graduation Day Part 2" (or both parts
together) was pretty darn good too . Better than "Becoming," which is
probably the sentimental favorite. I am kind of partial to single-ep
finales, though. And I'd give PG the edge over any of those. Except,
as you mention, for NFA.

-- Mike Zeares

Mike Zeares

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Mar 27, 2007, 5:14:12 AM3/27/07
to
On Mar 26, 8:19 pm, "Apteryx" <apte...@xtra.co.nz> wrote:
>
> Joke?... Yes, of course... joke...
> Are there any Buffy/Willow shippers?

What is that, rhetorical? ;-) There are (or at least were) entire
websites devoted to Buffy/Willow fanfic.

I never read any of them, of course. Especially not the CaveBuffy/
Willow ones.

-- Mike Zeares

bookworm

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Mar 27, 2007, 6:50:08 AM3/27/07
to
> I am kind of partial to single-ep
> finales, though.

my fav. finale is restless, then prophecy girl; the problem with
becoming in my book is, when you've watched it often enough (two or
three times) you don't get too emotional about it anymore. the acting
wears a little thin, or something: it's like, oh yeah, no happens that
joke, and now they yell at each other, and here is the fun scene with
joyce and spike, and now there's the big fight between joyce and buffy,
and she leaves and ...

but the first 15 minutes of Buffy are just heartbreaking.
and my fav. line is: " I'll go home, lie down, and listen to
country-music, the music of pain!", and then the shot of Xander at
home... *sigh*; except of course the great Buffy-Giles-scene: from "were
you even gonna tell me?" to "I'm sixteen..." omfg...

but restless is still my fav. finale...

And I'd give PG the edge over any of those. Except,
> as you mention, for NFA.
>

nfa is a better series finale than "chosen", but it was easier to
handle, because there weren't that many plot threads, and it was less an
ensemble-show than BtVS. and while not all of the plot threads and
character arcs were handled perfectly in s.7 of Buffy, it was at least
less monotonous than s 5 of ats, with "oh we went to w&h. I'm afraid I
got seduced. oh, some of us got corrupted..." which got more than a
little boring over the time...

and nfa hasn't been perfect either, the scene with angel and connor, the
first one, the dialogue there wears really thin, they could've done
better, except the lines about the resumé, they were fun...

Rowan Hawthorn

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Mar 27, 2007, 10:30:20 AM3/27/07
to

<sigh> Thanks a lot. Now I'll never get any work done this week...

Elisi

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Mar 27, 2007, 11:40:03 AM3/27/07
to

In honour of your upgrading of this ep. I uploaded one of my favourite
vids for you (and anyone else who'd like it, there's 100 downloads).
It's by Sadique (whose website appears to have vanished, sadly) and
shows Buffy's speech in 'Prophecy Girl' to the music from The Gift
(one of the most beautiful pieces of music ever!), and also using
clips from the rest of the show. It's an inspired idea so please have
a look. I think you should like it!

Link: http://www.yousendit.com/download/M3BsR0lYTkF6RTgwTVE9PQ

William George Ferguson

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Mar 27, 2007, 11:47:54 AM3/27/07
to

Actually, the most frightening fanfics are the W/VW ones. And then there
was the webcomic that did W/VW/EW all together.


--
... and my sister is a vampire slayer, her best friend is a witch who
went bonkers and tried to destroy the world, um, I actually used to be
a little ball of energy until about two years ago when some monks
changed the past and made me Buffy's sister and for some reason, a big
klepto. My best friends are Leticia Jones, who moved to San Diego
because this town is evil, and a floppy eared demon named Clem.
(Dawn's fantasy of her intro speech in "Lessons", from the shooting script)

Rowan Hawthorn

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Mar 27, 2007, 1:12:31 PM3/27/07
to
William George Ferguson wrote:
> On 27 Mar 2007 02:14:12 -0700, "Mike Zeares" <mze...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> On Mar 26, 8:19 pm, "Apteryx" <apte...@xtra.co.nz> wrote:
>>> Joke?... Yes, of course... joke...
>>> Are there any Buffy/Willow shippers?
>> What is that, rhetorical? ;-) There are (or at least were) entire
>> websites devoted to Buffy/Willow fanfic.
>>
>> I never read any of them, of course. Especially not the CaveBuffy/
>> Willow ones.
>
> Actually, the most frightening fanfics are the W/VW ones. And then there
> was the webcomic that did W/VW/EW all together.

With Buffy in the middle, of course.

Me. Bunk...

chr...@removethistoreply.gwu.edu

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Mar 27, 2007, 6:45:05 PM3/27/07
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Apteryx <apt...@xtra.co.nz> wrote:
>> From: "Arbitrar Of Quality" <tsm...@wildmail.com>
>> Date: Jan 24 2006, 2:57 pm
>> Subject: AOQ Review 1-12: "Prophecy Girl"
>> To: alt.tv.buffy-v-slayer

.
>> BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER
>> Season One, Episode 12: "Prophecy Girl"
>> (or "So let it be written, so let it be undone")
>> Writer: Joss Whedon
>> Director: Joss Whedon

.


>> It doesn't start that way. In fact, things open pretty generically;
>> Xander likes Buffy, the Master likes talking, Buffy tolerates killing
>> vampires, and Giles has an affinity for ominous prophecies.

I *love* the moment in the teaser when Buffy pulls out the stake and gives
the vampire a quiet, confident little smile. She isn't quite the helpless
little girl you expected, is she, Mr. Vampire?

Meanwhile, Xander sounds like he's asking someone out, but then we see
that he's just practicing to later ask Buffy out. Willow is clearly
fantasizing about Xander really saying those words to her, but Xander is
just as clearly unaware of this, being preoccupied with his nervousness
about Buffy. (At least it's clear to me.) Even if Xander is now aware of
Willow's feelings for him, he is apparently capable of putting it
completely out of his mind.

The scene after the credits with Giles and Buffy in the library is both
funny and touchingly sad. Giles is so distraught about the prophecy that
he can hardly bring himself to look at Buffy, but to her eyes he just
looks distracted and inattentive. Then we get this exchange:

Buffy: Fine. That's okay. I can't put it off any longer. I have to meet
my terrible fate.

Giles: (turns around quickly) What?!

Buffy: Biology.

So, why biology, out of all classes? One idea would be that "biology"
symbolizes womanhood, but that doesn't quite fit with the rest of the
episode. (PG is mostly about Buffy Power, not Woman Power.) Instead, I
think the "biology" here is human mortality. In the course of the day
Buffy has to confront not just the idea of her eventual mortality, but a
guarantee (seemingly) that she will die the very next day. Her first
impulse is naturally to try to avoid it by quitting as Slayer or fleeing
town, but after Willow's tearful speech Buffy realizes that she can't
avoid her terrible fate. Even if it were possible, she doesn't have it in
her to abandon her calling, and her friends. So she can't put it off any
longer, she has to meet her terrible fate -- which is the same fate that
awaits all people, not just the Slayer.

>> But it
>> becomes clear early on that it's time to actually move ahead with
>> things; I think the moment that really happens is when Xander
>> seemingly
>> overcomes the script's attempts to drag the scene out and finally
>> makes his move on Buffy. From there I like how they quickly brush
>> past
>> the standard TV attempts to be noncommittal about it ("look, either
>> you feel something or you don't") while finding time to slip in a
>> joke or two ("... or if she does, she's playing it really close to

>> the vest"). The aftermath is well played; Xander knows he


>> shouldn't lash out at Buffy, but it's impossible not to feel at
>> least a little angry. She doesn't blame him for that, they
>> understand each other, but there's just nothing either of them can
>> say to make the situation any less unpleasant. The followup scene
>> between Xander and Willow is also pretty good for some of the same
>> reasons.

Agreed with all that. Neither of these scenes is an argument, but they
both bear a certain family resemblance to all the great intra-Scooby
arguments where neither side is entirely wrong. Everyone here is
well-intentioned, sincere, honest and direct (*unusually* honest and
direct, in fact), and no one misunderstands what anyone else says, but
they still unavoidably hurt each other. Xander continues to be the expert
on joking in the face of not just death but emotional misery: "I don't
handle rejection well. Funny! Considering all the practice I've had, huh?"
"On a scale of 1 to 10? It sucked."

>> Buffy's day doesn't get any better. Not only has Angel been
>> avoiding her, but there's the whole impending death thing. Her
>> reaction is to say "fuck it, I don't care about the world."
>> Childish in the greater scheme of things, but a reasonable reaction
>> from a sixteen-year-old who hasn't quite accepted that life isn't
>> fair.

Xander has a similar moment when he decides to ignore the impending death
of *everyone* to deal with the impending death of Buffy. Jenny: "Once the
Master gets free, the Hellmouth opens, the demons come to party, and
everybody dies." Xander: "Uh, uh, I don't care. I'm sorry, I don't. Right
now I gotta help Buffy." (Though in this case his refusal to see the
larger picture actually works out pretty well, so maybe calling it
immature would sound a little too harsh.)

>> This is one of those scenes that I imagine would be difficult
>> from an actor's perspective. It calls for the ability to give an
>> emotionally-charged monologue that consists mostly of yelling without
>> sounding too histrionic or melodramatic, and it moves from sarcasm to
>> frustration to violent anger and ends with a mix of guilt and fear
>> ("I'm sixteen. I don't want to die."). In any case, Gellar
>> absolutely nails the whole thing. A good one for the actor portfolio.

I just wanted to say Amen here. This is without a doubt one of the best
scenes in the entire series.

>> Speaking of heroics, let's not forget how awesome it is seeing Xander
>> come through in the clutch, realizing that Angel is the key to helping
>> Buffy and coming in prepared to deal with him. Xander's actions take
>> courage and all that, but also require him to have a good sense of
>> what
>> he can and can't personally handle. I do wonder how he got ahold of
>> our friendly vampire, though: if Angel was ever given a permanent
>> address at which he could be reliably found, I missed it.

There are two possibilities that I can see. The more satisfactory is that
Angel gave Giles his address, as well as his phone number, while setting
up their book swap in OOMOOS. The less satisfactory is that, remembering
that Angel lived somewhere near the Bronze, and knowing the buildings in
that area, Xander was able to deduce where his lair must be. Either way,
one thing is certain: Angel did *not* give Buffy his address.

>> The
>> sequence
>> makes one wonder what it says about Angel, that he was willing to sit
>> around until someone came along to coax him into helping.

I think Angel was just so upset and embittered after learning about the
prophecy that he couldn't motivate himself to do anything except brood.
This also explains Angel's unfriendly attitude when Xander showed up at
his door, which otherwise would seem a little out of place (while Xander
is jealous of Angel, at this point Angel barely knows who Xander is). I
like the little moment of connection the two boys share: "You're in love
with her." "Aren't you?"

>> The other development worth mentioning in the early parts of the
>> episode is that the show seems to be ready to shake up the core
>> four-heroes dynamic by letting Calendar and Cordelia hang out with the
>> clique. The former is still entertaining enough, although I can't
>> say I really care about her all that much either way; if the writers
>> decide that Giles should have someone his own age to banter with,

Well, a fellow adult at least. The actress Robia LaMorte (what a great
name, BTW) was 26 at the time of filming, and her character seems to be
about the same age.

>> who
>> am I to argue?
>
> Even by this point, you really ought to have known that the writers just
> aren't that nice. Although this isn't one of Jenny's best episodes. Giles
> has texts of proven worth to warn him of the impending apocalypse. Jenny
> comes across as a bit flaky when she deduces it from the fact that people
> have sent her stories appearing on the 'net about a cat giving birth to a
> litter of snakes, a lake suddenly beginning to boil, and a boy was born with
> his eyes facing inward. And then claims not to be stupid.

That doesn't bother me. True, nothing about those portents screams
"apocalypse" to me, just "general supernatural weirdness." But we know
Jenny is in touch with a whole network of techno-pagans who notice and are
concerned about such signs of trouble, so it's easy to just assume that
she, like Giles, knows what she's talking about.

The part of that scene that really gets me is Giles asking how he can know
if he can trust Jenny. Oooh, the irony....

>> As for the latter character, well, I guess she's
>> mysteriously recovered from Sunnydale Forgetty-itis now that it's in
>> the script. The exchanges between her and Willow have a good rhythm
>> to
>> them, enough so that I wonder why the two of them haven't been given
>> more scenes together ("I like your dress." "No you don't."
>> "Yeah, I really don't, but I do need your help.") A policy of
>> mutual tolerance makes sense from both sides; Cordelia gets someone to
>> do her nerdy work and indirect access Buffy when needed, and Willow
>> gets to pretend to have more than two friends.

They may have actually passed tolerance and gone all the way on to ...
acceptance! Cordy treats Willow with respect in this scene, and just
before the AV room scene they're actually conversing more or less as
equals. Perhaps Cordy's hasty retreat at the end of OOMOOS wasn't a total
reset, and her character really has started to change. In a way, even her
attachment to that meathead dolt Kevin showed some depth in Cordelia. At
least she liked him sincerely enough to mourn over his corpse, instead of
wondering if she would be next, and later went to the spot where they used
to park instead of attending the prom. She really can care about someone
other than herself.

Not much to say about it, but the AV room scene and her later speech to
Buffy really show off Willow's serious side. (BTW, Joss is careful to
give each major character at least one moment to shine -- Prophecy Girl is
kind of like Serenity in that respect.)

>> Eventually the die is cast and Buffy goes to meet her fate. [BTW,
>> Mrs.
>> Quality didn't think it seemed quite in-character for her to just
>> punch out Giles that way. I disagree.] There're two outstanding
>> scenes during this sequence, both of which involve the theme of
>> skipping the standard drawn-out stuff and getting on with things. The
>> first is Buffy's laconic meeting with Colin. I didn't really
>> expect that the prophecy's "lead her into Hell" would turn out to
>> be so literal.
>
> Although as the prophecy actually said 'The Slayer will not know him, and he
> will lead her
> into Hell.', and Buffy's only words to Colin are "It's okay. I know who you
> are.", I'd say the Codex's perfect record for never being wrong has been
> knocked over the long-on boundary for six.

I guess Apteryx is tired of us North Americans always saying Joss or Sarah
or whoever "hit it out of the park". ;) I subscribe to the theory that
NKABOTFD fulfilled the "Slayer will not know him" part of the prophecy.
The Master seems to have planned a whole child-in-distress routine for
Colin to lure Buffy into the Hellmouth. Instead, Buffy cuts him short and
willingly follows the Anointed One into Hell. Thus she fulfills the
letter of the prophecy, but not in the spirit that the Master had
expected. This forshadows the climax of the episode, when Buffy dies and
frees the Master, just as was written, but these events don't mean what
the Master thought they did. What was it he said? "But prophecies are
tricky creatures. They don't tell you everything." The Master should have
listened to his own advice.

>> For the record, CPR doesn't tend to work very well unless you open an
>> airway (by tilting the patient's head) first. Also, unless you have
>> one of those electric shocky things (and sometimes even then), CPR
>> doesn't too often revive people so much as just keep them alive until
>> real help arrives. Just saying.

Ah, but perhaps that is just what happened. Xander's CPR just kept Buffy
alive until real help arrived ... but the "real help" here was her Slayer
super-healing abilities. I figure the Slayer stops healing when she's
clinically dead, but the CPR gave her just enough extra life to heal a
little bit, enough to start her heartbeat and breathing again. There's
another possibility, that a higher power got involved to revive Buffy
after the CPR failed. I'm not certain what happened, but I don't like
that explanation as much.

Of course Angel's statement that he can't give Buffy CPR because he has no
breath is completely illogical. If anything, his breath would be better
than a human's, since he wouldn't have used any of the oxygen in it
himself. But that's okay, because it fits the whole "has a soul, but is
still a vampire" theme better than just saying "I never learned CPR" would
have.

Another little moment that I really like is when Buffy starts breathing
again and Xander and Angel exchange delighted smiles, all jealousies
forgotten in the thrill of that moment. This is their second moment of
connection, after the "You're in love with her" mentioned above. (When
will there be a third?)

> everything. And in any event, while Giles says the Codex is never wrong,
> we've already seen it wrong once in this episode. And the Codex has been
> missing since the 15th century, so Giles doesn't have any recent evidence of
> it making a useful true prediction.

Thaks for reminding me. This is a point so minor as to be invisible to
the naked eye, but I was happy that they mentioned an important volume
having been lost for centuries. The idea that the Watchers' Council, and
its records, go all the way back to the Shadow Men without any interrupton
would be *way* more than I could swallow. Even much younger institutions
like the Catholic Church have only incomplete records before the modern
period. So having the occasional important volume lost really helps keep
the whole suspension of disbelief going for me.

>> The ending sequences almost have to be something of a letdown given
>> the
>> gooey goodness that have lead up to them. They're still quite fun,
>> if a little silly for their own good. The car ride through the school
>> and the various monsters in the library make me imagine the crew
>> saying
>> "we've got some leftover budget, and dammit, we're gonna use
>> it."

Yeah, that multi-headed demon in the library looks like it was made with
the last twenty bucks in the budget.... All the action scenes inside the
library look pretty cheesy, though forgiveably in the context of such an
overall excellent episode. I always enjoy Cordy getting a little revenge
by biting a vampire. "See how you like it!" But the best moment is, of
course, when Cordy screams "Somebody heeelllllp!" and we cut to Buffy
striding towards the school.

I love the badass camera-crane move when Buffy confronts the Master on the
school roof. "I may be dead, but I'm still pretty. Which is more than I
can say for you."

If I was a nitpicker, I would question why killing the Master closes the
Hellmouth again. Once you pull a cork out of a bottle, burning the cork
does not re-seal the bottle. But fortunately I *never* pick nits....

Prophecy Girl was the very first episode of BTVS I ever saw. (As I've
already mentioned in a couple of other threads.) Going in I had no idea
what the show was like, I'm not sure how much of it I really got, and I
have no memory of how much I liked it. Knowing the me of 1997, I probably
disliked the way vampires turned to dust when killed (a tradition in
vampire fiction that I never really liked until I became a Buffy fan).
And of course I couldn't appreciate things like the Willow-Cordy detente,
not knowing their history. On the other hand I surely appreciated the
whole unhappy love rhombus scenes (not entirely unlike some situations
I've been in), the finding the bodies scene, the scene in Angel's house,
and of course the kick-ass female vampire killer. But on the third hand,
I had a vague idea that the show was already in its second or third year,
which probably hurt my appreciation of Buffy's "I quit" speech. (You'd
think that she would've had a crisis like this early in her career,
right?) So my initial reaction was probably mixed. But I remembered it,
and in 2001 when I belatedly became a fan, I scoured the file-sharing
world until I found an mpeg of Prophecy Girl, which I began playing
obsessively. It quickly became one of my absolute favorite episodes, and
in the five and a half years since then it's never left that group.

>> AOQ rating: Excellent
>
> Excellent for me too.

Excellent at the very least. AOQ has now upgraded his rating to
SUPERLATIVE, and I might just have to agree. Minor plot holes and cheesy
special effects don't matter -- Prophecy Girl is just one great scene
after another, one great performance after another. And while no one
episode can really sum up all of BTVS, Prophecy Girl comes tolerably
close.

And regardless of which episode is best, if I had to pick one as my
personal favorite, Prophecy Girl would probably be it.

> That's it from me for now. I won't be going on to revisit AOQ's season 2
> reviews, because:
>
> 1) I already commented on them last year
> 2) The 1st match of the 2nd round of the cricket world cup starts in 12
> hours
> 3) I believe AOQ is about to start his Firefly reviews, and I'm in a mood to
> rewatch that series next (to the extent the cricket allows).

Well, I hope we can keep these revisiting AOQ threads going. If we do,
perhaps we can work out a general schedule to alternate with the Firefly
reviews? Unless AOQ wants to crank out a Firefly review a day, that
is.


--Chris

______________________________________________________________________
chrisg [at] gwu.edu On the Internet, nobody knows I'm a dog.

Mike Zeares

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Mar 27, 2007, 9:38:41 PM3/27/07
to
On Mar 27, 9:30 am, Rowan Hawthorn <rowan_hawth...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Mike Zeares wrote:
> > On Mar 26, 8:19 pm, "Apteryx" <apte...@xtra.co.nz> wrote:
> >> Joke?... Yes, of course... joke...
> >> Are there any Buffy/Willow shippers?
>
> > What is that, rhetorical? ;-) There are (or at least were) entire
> > websites devoted to Buffy/Willow fanfic.
>
> > I never read any of them, of course. Especially not the CaveBuffy/
> > Willow ones.
>
> <sigh> Thanks a lot. Now I'll never get any work done this week...

[evil grin]

There may or may not have been a shower scene in that CaveBuffy/Willow
fic I absolutely did not read.

-- Mike Zeares

mariposas rand mair fheal greykitten tomys des anges

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Mar 27, 2007, 9:53:30 PM3/27/07
to
In article <1175045921....@e65g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>,
"Mike Zeares" <mze...@yahoo.com> wrote:

there needs to be a special repository to hold such stories
to protect the public from reading them and becoming corrupted

so will any good person volunteer for the odious task
of overseeing such a repository?

Rowan Hawthorn

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Mar 27, 2007, 11:28:02 PM3/27/07
to
Mike Zeares wrote:
> On Mar 27, 9:30 am, Rowan Hawthorn <rowan_hawth...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> Mike Zeares wrote:
>>> On Mar 26, 8:19 pm, "Apteryx" <apte...@xtra.co.nz> wrote:
>>>> Joke?... Yes, of course... joke...
>>>> Are there any Buffy/Willow shippers?
>>> What is that, rhetorical? ;-) There are (or at least were) entire
>>> websites devoted to Buffy/Willow fanfic.
>>> I never read any of them, of course. Especially not the CaveBuffy/
>>> Willow ones.
>> <sigh> Thanks a lot. Now I'll never get any work done this week...
>
> [evil grin]
>
> There may or may not have been a shower scene in that CaveBuffy/Willow
> fic I absolutely did not read.
>

LOL!

One Bit Shy

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Mar 28, 2007, 2:57:36 AM3/28/07
to
"Apteryx" <apt...@xtra.co.nz> wrote in message
news:eu9rfh$i83$1...@aioe.org...

>> From: "Arbitrar Of Quality" <tsm...@wildmail.com>

>> BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER


>> Season One, Episode 12: "Prophecy Girl"

>> Joss takes the camera himself for the final show of the first season.

I always think of this episode as Joss purging his memory of the movie.
This time he's in control and he's going to get it right and he pulled out
every stop he could to do it - including starving the earlier part of the
season for cash so he could get a decent budget for this. The episode
doesn't quite have a movie feel to it - there are still a lot of cut corners
and it's still only 40 minutes long - but it feels way different than what
we've seen before it.

How different still bowls me over. Right from the sudden switch to Buffy
flying slow motion through the air and thudding on the ground. I still jerk
to attention when that happens and then can't let go. That quickly leads to
a kind of subtlety we haven't seen much of - if at all - in the series to
date. Vampire with a predatory smile. Stake slipped out. Vampire worried.
Buffy with her small smile, more cruel, more predatory than the vampire.
That is so-o-o cool.

And leads me to my final remark about Buffy's seasonal progression to the
Prophecy Girl conclusion. Joss saved the final step for himself,
illustrated by this scene. We've watched how being the Slayer affects her
life in all sorts of ways from messing with her home life to getting her to
fall for a vampire. It gets in the way. It complicates. It defines. But
always as something to deal with. To cope.

But now we see it's attraction. For just a second we see Buffy the killer.
And we know she *loves* slaying.

I doubt even Buffy realizes this yet, but she's not just doing it because
she has to any more.

Now Buffy is ready for her real test, and the WTTH decision is recast with a
bite that this time literally strikes deep.


> like the oddity of the
> Master's bone not turning to dust,

That one has always bugged me. Fortunately after watching. Doesn't seem to
get in the way while the ending plays out. He does have a mighty fine
looking skeleton.


>> From there I like how they quickly brush
>> past
>> the standard TV attempts to be noncommittal about it ("look, either
>> you feel something or you don't")

That's a really good line. And smart. One of the things that really stood
out for me this run through of S1 is how insightful and observant Xander
often is. More so than Willow really, though she obviously has the brains.
Xander will always retain a kind of insight, but the series seems to push
him a bit more towards the silly side, while also having his insight too
often turn out wrong.

I think. I'll have to think about that more the next time I watch S2.


>> I
>> may have to start pulling for a B/X relationship, although I'm open
>> to alternatives. (I also refuse to use the term "shipper" or
>> combine characters' names; you gotta have some standards.)

When Buffy looks up after choking up the water, sees Xander over him, and
croaks out, "Xander?" with wonderment, I imagine a bunch of shippers fainted
dead away in exstacy.

But of course I just have to see something symbollic in the moment. For me
it's the affirmation of Buffy's WTTH decision to marry her calling with her
life, her friends. Buffy looks in wonderment at what it has reaped.
There's often been a lot of discussion on what exactly happened at that
moment. Where did Buffy get her seemingly newfound power from? I think
it's straight from Xander, and by extension everyone she has surrounded
herself with. Xander didn't just save her. He breathed life into her.
It's such a symbollic act. Buffy's strength comes from her friends and her
love. That's one of the great themes of the series, revisited again and
again. Here is one of the greatest representations of it.


> Even by this point, you really ought to have known that the writers just
> aren't that nice. Although this isn't one of Jenny's best episodes.

As Chris pointed out, Giles asking if he can trust Jenny really jumps out in
retrospect.

It's been my understanding from what I've read in the groups that Jenny the
betrayer was a relatively late S2 invention not long planned for. Maybe.
But Giles asking the question now really is kind of odd. As Jenny says, she
already proved herself with the Moloch spell. But who knows what evil
thoughts lurk in the mind of Joss.


>> The
>> first is Buffy's laconic meeting with Colin. I didn't really
>> expect that the prophecy's "lead her into Hell" would turn out to
>> be so literal.
>
> Although as the prophecy actually said 'The Slayer will not know him, and
> he will lead her
> into Hell.', and Buffy's only words to Colin are "It's okay. I know who
> you are.", I'd say the Codex's perfect record for never being wrong has
> been knocked over the long-on boundary for six.

I'm definitely of the school that NKABOTFD met the requirement of the Slayer
not knowing him. I think it's an early hint that the prophecy is deceptive.
The whole prophecy thing ends up being about the arrogance of The Master.
He's so in love with his insight about how the prophecy itself is a trick to
get Buffy to come and release him, that he fails to consider that its tricks
might not end there.


>> Also, unless you have
>> one of those electric shocky things (and sometimes even then), CPR
>> doesn't too often revive people so much as just keep them alive until
>> real help arrives. Just saying.

I'm not sure that's quite as true for drownings. Buffy's heart probably
isn't damaged.


>> Also, I'm afraid I don't really
>> buy "clinically dead" as an acceptable prophecy loophole.

Why not? Prophecies are never what they seem.

Besides, that shot of her face down in the water... Damn that hurts. And
damn, she looks dead.

>> The final
>> iteration
>> of the gag which closes the episode gives us one last smile, and going
>> out with a wry joke seems like an appropriate note on which to
>> conclude
>> Buffy: The Miniseries.

I like the dress too, but the line that always does it for me is:

Buffy: I'm really, really hungry.


>> So....
>>
>> One-sentence summary: A near-perfect way to end Season One.
>>
>> AOQ rating: Excellent

I see you upped it to Superlative. Good for you.

It's a great episode for all the reason people always go on about because,
damn, it deserves it. This falls into my list of "special" episodes that
truly stand apart from the series norm (which happens to be very high). I'm
not sure exactly where, but probably around #10. But more than that it
stands out - as you mention in your new post - as the best season finale of
the series. Nothing else wraps things up so well. (I actually rate
Restless higher, but I can't see that as a true season closer. It's some
kind of strange entity unto itself that links two seasons in the near term
and serves as a reference for the whole series. But it doesn't wrap S4.)

Excellent for me. Maybe Superlative too - but I haven't seriously attempted
to make that distinction, so I don't really know where the line is.
Prophecy Girl is special by all counts.


> That's it from me for now. I won't be going on to revisit AOQ's season 2
> reviews, because:
>
> 1) I already commented on them last year
> 2) The 1st match of the 2nd round of the cricket world cup starts in 12
> hours
> 3) I believe AOQ is about to start his Firefly reviews, and I'm in a mood
> to rewatch that series next (to the extent the cricket allows).
>
> But if anyone else wants to do so, particularly someone who didn't comment
> much on those reviews a year ago, that could be interesting.

I want to see the Firefly reviews too. This was good since I hadn't
commented on S1 originally either. But I'm a little burnt out on this, so
the break would be nice.

Using the AOQ reviews as a foundation for another look might be good. I'm
not entirely comfortable reacting to his old points of view when I know he's
developed his thoughts, but it is nice to be able to talk about them without
regard to spoiling.

OBS


Apteryx

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Mar 28, 2007, 3:02:24 AM3/28/07
to
<chr...@removethistoreply.gwu.edu> wrote in message
news:130j7jh...@corp.supernews.com...

> Apteryx <apt...@xtra.co.nz> wrote:
>>
>> Although as the prophecy actually said 'The Slayer will not know him, and
>> he
>> will lead her
>> into Hell.', and Buffy's only words to Colin are "It's okay. I know who
>> you
>> are.", I'd say the Codex's perfect record for never being wrong has been
>> knocked over the long-on boundary for six.
>
> I guess Apteryx is tired of us North Americans always saying Joss or Sarah
> or whoever "hit it out of the park". ;)

A little bit of that, a little bit of all the cricket I've been watching in
the past two weeks. But softball is fairly popular in New Zealand,
especially in the Wellington area where I live (plus I played rounders at
school... ) so I'm relatively multilingual in that respect.

> I subscribe to the theory that
> NKABOTFD fulfilled the "Slayer will not know him" part of the prophecy.

Well yeah, prophecies tend to be pretty weasely. But an interpretation of
"The Slayer will not know him" as "The Slayer will not know him until she
does" would be about as weak as they get. Maybe if they followed it up by
the AO leading her into one of these places? -
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hell_Pizza
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hell,_Norway


--
Apteryx


mariposas rand mair fheal greykitten tomys des anges

unread,
Mar 28, 2007, 4:43:45 AM3/28/07
to
> But now we see it's attraction. For just a second we see Buffy the killer.
> And we know she *loves* slaying.

i think thats important point at the end

people complaining that willow forced the girls to become slayers
but being a slayer was not really the problem for them
it was being one girl alone

even in season one buffy isnt complaining about being a superhero
shes complaining how she cant integrate it with rest of her life

> > like the oddity of the
> > Master's bone not turning to dust,
>
> That one has always bugged me. Fortunately after watching. Doesn't seem to
> get in the way while the ending plays out. He does have a mighty fine
> looking skeleton.

i took it that being the master was just not the master of vampires
but he had mastered other magics

> > Although as the prophecy actually said 'The Slayer will not know him, and
> > he will lead her
> > into Hell.', and Buffy's only words to Colin are "It's okay. I know who
> > you are.", I'd say the Codex's perfect record for never being wrong has
> > been knocked over the long-on boundary for six.
>
> I'm definitely of the school that NKABOTFD met the requirement of the Slayer

or the prophecy was just wrong and this was the first sign of it being wrong
or perhaps codex had never been right
but it had been close enough that the giles of the world
overlooked discrepancies and just thought it was infallible

> >> Also, unless you have
> >> one of those electric shocky things (and sometimes even then), CPR
> >> doesn't too often revive people so much as just keep them alive until
> >> real help arrives. Just saying.
>
> I'm not sure that's quite as true for drownings. Buffy's heart probably
> isn't damaged.

i dont know if heart massage is sufficient to restart the pacemaker
but i do know that it is complex feedback loop involving the brainstem
the pacemaker region and the electrical propagation throughout the ventricles

its not a simple situation

> >> Also, I'm afraid I don't really
> >> buy "clinically dead" as an acceptable prophecy loophole.
>
> Why not? Prophecies are never what they seem.
>
> Besides, that shot of her face down in the water... Damn that hurts. And
> damn, she looks dead.

when the prophecy was written once the heart stopped it didnt start again

Michael Ikeda

unread,
Mar 28, 2007, 5:54:23 PM3/28/07
to
"One Bit Shy" <O...@nomail.sorry> wrote in
news:130k4f3...@news.supernews.com:

> "Apteryx" <apt...@xtra.co.nz> wrote in message
> news:eu9rfh$i83$1...@aioe.org...
>>> From: "Arbitrar Of Quality" <tsm...@wildmail.com>
>
>>> BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER
>>> Season One, Episode 12: "Prophecy Girl"
>

>
>

>>> Also, unless you have
>>> one of those electric shocky things (and sometimes even then),
>>> CPR doesn't too often revive people so much as just keep them
>>> alive until real help arrives. Just saying.
>
> I'm not sure that's quite as true for drownings. Buffy's heart
> probably isn't damaged.

Plus she's the Slayer.

>
>
>>> Also, I'm afraid I don't really
>>> buy "clinically dead" as an acceptable prophecy loophole.
>
> Why not? Prophecies are never what they seem.
>
> Besides, that shot of her face down in the water... Damn that
> hurts. And damn, she looks dead.
>

And since it's good enough for the Slayer Spell, it should be good
enough for the prophecy.

--
Michael Ikeda mmi...@erols.com
"Telling a statistician not to use sampling is like telling an
astronomer they can't say there is a moon and stars"
Lynne Billard, past president American Statistical Association

chr...@removethistoreply.gwu.edu

unread,
Mar 28, 2007, 7:06:56 PM3/28/07
to
Apteryx <apt...@xtra.co.nz> wrote:

> Well yeah, prophecies tend to be pretty weasely. But an interpretation of
> "The Slayer will not know him" as "The Slayer will not know him until she
> does" would be about as weak as they get. Maybe if they followed it up by
> the AO leading her into one of these places? -
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hell_Pizza
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hell,_Norway

You know, Hell, Norway sounds like a nice place to visit. How could
anyone not be intrigued by the Hell Music Festival? Mark Twain said "Go
to Heaven for the climate, Hell for the company," but I wouldn't be
surprised if Hell also had the best music.

Hell Pizza sounds good too. "After a little creative advertising, the
name Hell started to gain a reputation." Heh.

chr...@removethistoreply.gwu.edu

unread,
Mar 28, 2007, 7:51:42 PM3/28/07
to
Nice review, OBS.

One Bit Shy <O...@nomail.sorry> wrote:

>> That's it from me for now. I won't be going on to revisit AOQ's season 2
>> reviews, because:
>>
>> 1) I already commented on them last year
>> 2) The 1st match of the 2nd round of the cricket world cup starts in 12
>> hours
>> 3) I believe AOQ is about to start his Firefly reviews, and I'm in a mood
>> to rewatch that series next (to the extent the cricket allows).
>>
>> But if anyone else wants to do so, particularly someone who didn't comment
>> much on those reviews a year ago, that could be interesting.
>
> I want to see the Firefly reviews too. This was good since I hadn't
> commented on S1 originally either. But I'm a little burnt out on this, so
> the break would be nice.

I for one would like to continue going revisiting the AOQ reviews for
season 2 (and later?). My first hope was to alternate with the Firefly
reviews, but that was probably pushing it. Judging from Apteryx's and
OBS's comments, waiting until sometime after the Firefly reviews might be
a better idea for everyone. A slower pace might be a good idea too. (Or
maybe someone could just occasionally start the next revisiting AOQ thread
whenever the proportion of trolls and spam here gets too high, to restore
some balance.)

> Using the AOQ reviews as a foundation for another look might be good. I'm
> not entirely comfortable reacting to his old points of view when I know he's
> developed his thoughts, but it is nice to be able to talk about them without
> regard to spoiling.

That's what I hope we can do, use AOQ's reviews as the starting point for
a new episode-by-episode discussion of the series. We could try doing
that without referring to AOQ's reviews, but it's just easier to get
things going when you're replying to *someone*. And if anyone really
wants to tweak AOQ for not getting this or that the first time around,
this would give them the perfect chance.

Daniel Damouth

unread,
Mar 29, 2007, 2:23:58 AM3/29/07
to
"Apteryx" <apt...@xtra.co.nz> wrote in
news:eu9rfh$i83$1...@aioe.org:

> That's it from me for now. I won't be going on to revisit AOQ's
> season 2 reviews, because:
>
> 1) I already commented on them last year
> 2) The 1st match of the 2nd round of the cricket world cup
> starts in 12 hours
> 3) I believe AOQ is about to start his Firefly reviews, and I'm
> in a mood to rewatch that series next (to the extent the cricket
> allows).

I'm astonished that a fan could watch PG and be able to not continue
to the next episode, "When She Was Bad", because I think of them as a
two-part episode, both parts being of fantastic quality.

-Dan Damouth

Arbitrar Of Quality

unread,
Mar 29, 2007, 4:08:10 PM3/29/07
to
A DVD comment, since re-watching includes soaking up the bonus
content: was that mini-overview with Joss and David Boreanaz designed
as some sort of dare to put together the least informative Special
Feature imaginable?

-AOQ

Espen Schjønberg

unread,
Mar 29, 2007, 4:27:12 PM3/29/07
to

No comment on that. Except my impression was this was people who had
accepted the invitation to say something, and to late realized they had
nothing to say. (OK, that may count as a comment.)

But: to talk about something else: we do _not_ do the spoiler-regime
this time, yes? We can leave the original threads to the new fans as
they arrive over time, and make a special summing-up thread where
spoilers _are_ allowed?

--
Espen

Arbitrar Of Quality

unread,
Mar 29, 2007, 6:26:59 PM3/29/07
to
On Mar 29, 3:27 pm, Espen Schjønberg <ess...@excite.com> wrote:

> But: to talk about something else: we do _not_ do the spoiler-regime
> this time, yes? We can leave the original threads to the new fans as
> they arrive over time, and make a special summing-up thread where
> spoilers _are_ allowed?

Yes. I don't know what format we'll use for future revisiting (I have
one idea if no one else does it sooner), but if someone starts a new
thread, there's no reason to use the old spoiler policy.

-AOQ


Arbitrar Of Quality

unread,
Apr 2, 2007, 2:51:07 AM4/2/07
to

It's very well put together - looks professional. Some of the flashes
forward work well, although not all, particularly the material from
"The Gift." I know I wouldn't want to watch the PG scene originally
with such "big" music; as a memory I'm a little more tolerant.

-AOQ

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