AOQ Review 3-8: "Lovers Walk"
Arbitrar Of Quality
threads.
BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER
Season Three, Episode 8: "Lovers Walk"
(or "About fucking time!")
Writer: Dan Vebber
Director: David Semel
After some (but not much) thought, I decided to go with the
apostrophe-free version of the title.
LW begins with some fluff (and setup for future stories) about SAT
results; Buffy did well. But the real money moment of the teaser is
when Cordelia asks "what kind of moron would ever wanna come back
here?" hinting at where we're going... immediately followed by the
Darkmobile wiping out yet another sign. This could be a lot of fun.
My one complaint is that Spike flopping out of the car looks too much
like someone inside is throwing him out.
So Spike is now reduced to drunkenly staggering through the town
whining about Drusilla. Is the character diminished here? That was my
initial thought, but as the episode played out, I came to remember that
almost as long as we've known Spike he's been a petty individual
prone to losing control of situations. Drusilla has always been his
greatest weakness, to the point of being the absolute center of his
world. After seeing "Lovers Walk" I'm baffled that the show ever
tried to set Spike up as an arch-villain. This broken shell of a loser
has been underneath the bravado for quite some time (at least since
S/I); this *is* the "real" Spike. To me, it reads like Joss et al
had one idea for the character originally and then changed direction
midway through S2 once they got a better idea who he was (and Don's
post about the original plans for Spike would support that). Does
anyone have any contradictory evidence?
Given all the X/W stuff we've been seeing lately, it makes sense that
we get a few moments showing what they'd be giving up; Cordelia has
pictures of herself with Xander in her locker, and Oz has a PEZ
dispenser for Willow. Funny, sweet moments, especially the latter,
since it's a very Oz kind of present that only Willow could
appreciate quite so much. This leads into the attempted witchcraft
that inadvertently brings Spike into the story. Xander immediately
figures out what's going on, and refuses to play along. Nice. He at
least realizes that they need to work out their problems themselves
rather than relying on spells, even if he doesn't actually go through
with it. The reference to him having bad luck with these spells is a
bit of character consistency and also reinforces the fact that LW could
not be more different from "Banal, Bothersome, and Bloody Awful" in
how it treats either comedy or love.
Spike's attack on Xander seems more brutal/damaging than what we
usually get on this show. The bits featuring him intimidating Willow
into helping with his spell masterfully hit several moods at once.
Spike really is a comedic figure here so these scenes are a lot of fun
to watch ("what are you staring at?" and of course the classic
chaos demon story), but despite that (or maybe because of it), he's
potentially very dangerous, and we feel that too.
Another oddly funny highlight is the Spike/Joyce/Angel/Buffy sequence.
We fade to commercial with Spike given the opportunity to do anything
he wants to Joyce... and come back to hear him telling his chaos demon
story. Again. Now *that's* humor through repetition. It's the
hardest I've laughed at BTVS in recent memory. Angel tries to
protect Joyce from the unknown-to-her menace, but doesn't have an
invite, until Buffy shows up to save the day. Classic delivery on
"why don't you come on in?" For once, Joyce behaves very
rationally here given what she knows, and her constant questions about
what's going on and who's a witch make sense, along with giving the
scene more comedic timing.
So Xander and Willow decide to give in to what they know is wrong under
the legal argument of "exemption for impending death situation."
Heh. I'd buy that precedent. This is another one of those episodes,
like "Homecoming," where their scenes manage to seem impossibly
cute regardless of what they're doing to their friends. And this
setup actually managed to let the show get away with using the tired
device of "both significant others catch them making out" without
drawing even an eye-bat from me. Impressive.
Meanwhile Spike is taking a second to cut to the heart of the
Buffy/Angel non-relationship. And then some of Trick's employees
show up. There's a lot going on in this episode, huh? The only
thing that would've made it more fun is if the tricky one himself had
put in an appearance to have a little flippant-off. Ah, well. The
ensuing action sequence is nice, especially the holy water grenades,
and just the chance to see Angel and Buffy fighting together like old
times. And then that takes us directly into probably the best
anti-climax of the series thus far, with "oh, sod the spell. Your
friends are at the factory." Heh.
And then there's the funeral gag where the show teases us with the
death of a main character. I love it when ME shows do that. This had
Mrs. Quality celebrating (hey, it's Cordelia), and me rapidly running
through scenarios under which she could come back as a vampire or
something. Oh, well.
Given how much of a joy the bulk of LW is, the ending sequences are
quite depressing. This isn't a stylistic clash at all; in fact, the
end comes off almost as a penance for all the fun we've been having
with potentially serious matters (and with those sin-laden X/W scenes).
Actually, I kept having fun, since Xander and Cordelia break up at the
end. Rock on. Yeah, I know they could get back together next week,
but if you don't mind, I would like to savor this. And the scene works
even without my particular sentiments, given that we can see it from
either character's perspective. Personally, if I were Cordelia, I
wouldn't forgive Xander either. In its infinite cruelty, the show
holds off on giving a final answer on the exact status of Willow and
the two guys in her life, which is what I really cared about. Well, we
have the DVDs, we don't have to wait a week. So there.
That's not sad enough yet, so we also have a moment with Buffy saying
goodbye to Angel yet again. After all they've been through, will
self-restraint be what finally ends things? Nothing else could. We
shall see. I'd just like to mention "I don't accept that" as
an example of how much pain can be loaded into one line. How can an
actor incorporate such deep sadness and desperation into his delivery
without actually seeming to emote? It's a secret to everyone.
So, LW ends with all our heroes alone and miserable. Yet the episode
throws in one last smile for those who need a hug - Spike singing
along to the radio at the top of his lungs as he rides off into the
sunset. Murdering demon or not, it was good to see you again, mate.
This Is Really Stupid But I Laughed Anyway moment(s):
- Spike using the factory as his base, and then dismissing the idea
when others suggest it.
- I mentioned it, but it deserves to be quoted. "I caught her on a
park bench, making out with a chaos demon! Have you ever seen a chaos
demon? They're all slime and antlers, they're disgusting. She only
did it to hurt me. So I said 'I'm not putting up with this anymore,'
and she said 'fine!' and I said 'yeah, I've got an unlife, you know!'
and then she said... she
said we could still be friends! God, I'm so unhappy!"
A few short takes, mostly about the end:
You might think that Buffy and Angel would think Spike was too
dangerous to leave alive, or that Spike would get back to
Slayer-bagging if he wanted to impress Drusilla. I guess fighting
vampires together makes people less likely to attack each other.
Very few shows could wring so much humor from a character saying
something like "I'll find her, wherever she is, tie her up, torture
her until she likes me again."
Why is Oz not the one playing the song at the end? Contrived, maybe,
but it'd have worked.
Spike's car is still clearly not moving during the interior shots.
I can think of a few episodes that, based on plot content, "should"
be better than "Lovers Walk" (F/H/T and Rev this year, plus a bunch
from S2). But it's all about the execution. LW picks a tone (and
not the obvious one for a breakup episode) and does great things with
it. That's why it's one of the highlights of the series so far.
That, plus Xander and Cordelia break up. About fucking time.
So...
One-sentence summary: Plenty of fun to be had at others' expense.
AOQ rating: Excellent
[Season Three so far:
1) "Anne" - Decent
2) "Dead Man's Party" - Excellent
3) "Faith, Hope, and Trick" - Good
4) "Beauty And The Beasts" - Decent
5) "Homecoming" - Good
6) "Band Candy" - Weak
7) "Revelations" - Good
8) "Lovers Walk" - Excellent]
jil...@hotmail.com
Trick send his goons out? Sometimes I wonder about these things.
The Mayor says, "So, we have a Spike problem, do we?"
Allan: "He's been spotted back in town." The Mayor's shot is on
target this time, but comes up short. He lets out a frustrated sigh and
goes to retrieve his ball. Allan continues, "And there was an incident
at a magic shop in broad daylight. Police had a hell of a time
covering it up."
(A pointed note, since AOQ has had trouble recognizing these things in
the past "POLICE HAD A HELL OF A TIME COVERING IT UP.")
Mayor Wilkins laughs. "Well, yes, y'know, he was up to all sorts of
shenanigans last year. We had a world of fun trying to guess what he'd
do next."
Allan: "I remember." (leans against the Mayor's desk)
The Mayor whistles at Allan, who immediately stands back up. "But I
guess we're past that now. This year is too important to let a loose
cannon rock the boat."
My notes again: We know that it was almost certainly the Mayor who
ruined Balthazar's plans. It was probably also the Mayor who sunk the
church when The Master tried to open the Hellmouth before. I'm just
guessing. But it's probably a safe assumption. *grin* Buffy's on the
Hellmouth, but as Giles suggest with Faith there perhaps she doesn't
need to be. *coughcough*
And don't go asking for Spike spoilers!
Heheh
Joyce: That's not it. It's just you belong at a, a good old-fashioned
college with, with keg parties and boys, not here with Hellmouths and
vampires.
Buffy: Not really seeing the distinction.
Don Sample
"Arbitrar Of Quality" <tsm...@wildmail.com> wrote:
> A reminder: Please avoid spoilers for later episodes in these review
> threads.
>
>
> BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER
> Season Three, Episode 8: "Lovers Walk"
> (or "About fucking time!")
> Writer: Dan Vebber
> Director: David Semel
>
> After some (but not much) thought, I decided to go with the
> apostrophe-free version of the title.
>
> LW begins with some fluff (and setup for future stories) about SAT
> results; Buffy did well. But the real money moment of the teaser is
> when Cordelia asks "what kind of moron would ever wanna come back
> here?" hinting at where we're going... immediately followed by the
> Darkmobile wiping out yet another sign.
I think it was the same sign. They put it up again after the last time
he ran over it.
>
> Another oddly funny highlight is the Spike/Joyce/Angel/Buffy sequence.
> We fade to commercial with Spike given the opportunity to do anything
> he wants to Joyce... and come back to hear him telling his chaos demon
> story. Again. Now *that's* humor through repetition.
And Spike likes marshmallows in his hot chocolate.
>
> You might think that Buffy and Angel would think Spike was too
> dangerous to leave alive, or that Spike would get back to
> Slayer-bagging if he wanted to impress Drusilla. I guess fighting
> vampires together makes people less likely to attack each other.
This is about the fourth free pass they've given Spike.
> Why is Oz not the one playing the song at the end? Contrived, maybe,
> but it'd have worked.
Oz is definitely not in the mood to be doing the sort of head banging
rendition of "My Way" that was needed at that point. (And he only plays
guitar, he doesn't sing.)
--
Quando omni flunkus moritati
Visit the Buffy Body Count at <http://homepage.mac.com/dsample/>
kenm47
in those circumstances was more than quickly forgiveable. I felt bad
for Cordy and all, but really? Oz? Ditto.
"Buffy: Let's face it: none of us are ever gonna have a
happy, normal relationship.
Xander: We're doomed!
Willow: Yeah!"
--- IRYJ ---
Ken (Brooklyn)
Don Sample
"jil...@hotmail.com" <jil...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> Zl abgrf ntnva: Jr xabj gung vg jnf nyzbfg pregnvayl gur Znlbe jub
> ehvarq Onygunmne'f cynaf. Vg jnf cebonoyl nyfb gur Znlbe jub fhax gur
> puhepu jura Gur Znfgre gevrq gb bcra gur Uryyzbhgu orsber. V'z whfg
> thrffvat. Ohg vg'f cebonoyl n fnsr nffhzcgvba.
Pnershy. Obgu Onygunmne, naq pbapergr rivqrapr bs gur Znlbe'f ntr ner
shgher riragf.
Rowan Hawthorn
Actually, he does sing backup on occasion. I believe it's in "Inca
Mummy Girl" that you can clearly see him step up to the mic and sing a
couple of lines along with Devon.
--
Rowan Hawthorn
"Occasionally, I'm callous and strange." - Willow Rosenberg, "Buffy the
Vampire Slayer"
drifter
> In article <1142297292.0...@i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
> "jil...@hotmail.com" <jil...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> Zl abgrf ntnva: Jr xabj gung vg jnf nyzbfg pregnvayl gur Znlbe jub
>> ehvarq Onygunmne'f cynaf. Vg jnf cebonoyl nyfb gur Znlbe jub fhax
>> gur puhepu jura Gur Znfgre gevrq gb bcra gur Uryyzbhgu orsber. V'z
>> whfg thrffvat. Ohg vg'f cebonoyl n fnsr nffhzcgvba.
>
> Pnershy. Obgu Onygunmne, naq pbapergr rivqrapr bs gur Znlbe'f ntr ner
> shgher riragf.
Y'know, I *usually* skip all the ROT13 stuff. I've seen all the episodes,
but
I prefer to follow the discussion in the spirit of AOQ as a first timer.
But
I just had to find out what "Pnershy" was.
--
Kel
"I reject your reality, and substitute my own."
Opus the Penguin
> This Is Really Stupid But I Laughed Anyway moment(s):
> - Spike using the factory as his base, and then dismissing the
> idea when others suggest it.
> - I mentioned it, but it deserves to be quoted. "I caught her on
> a park bench, making out with a chaos demon! Have you ever seen a
> chaos demon? They're all slime and antlers, they're disgusting.
> She only did it to hurt me. So I said 'I'm not putting up with
> this anymore,' and she said 'fine!' and I said 'yeah, I've got an
> unlife, you know!' and then she said... she
> said we could still be friends! God, I'm so unhappy!"
"You got any of those little marshmallows?" and Joyce saying "Let me
look" was what made the scene complete for me.
--
Opus the Penguin
The best darn penguin in all of Usenet
Opus the Penguin
Furrfu. <fzvyrl snpr>
--
Bchf gur Crathva
Gur orfg qnea crathva va nyy bs Hfrarg
Clairel
jil...@hotmail.com wrote:
> Did your DVD not contain the part where the Mayor was the one who had
> Trick send his goons out? Sometimes I wonder about these things.
>
> The Mayor says, "So, we have a Spike problem, do we?"
>
> Allan: "He's been spotted back in town." The Mayor's shot is on
> target this time, but comes up short. He lets out a frustrated sigh and
> goes to retrieve his ball. Allan continues, "And there was an incident
> at a magic shop in broad daylight. Police had a hell of a time
> covering it up."
>
> (A pointed note, since AOQ has had trouble recognizing these things in
> the past "POLICE HAD A HELL OF A TIME COVERING IT UP.")
>
> Mayor Wilkins laughs. "Well, yes, y'know, he was up to all sorts of
> shenanigans last year. We had a world of fun trying to guess what he'd
> do next."
>
> Allan: "I remember." (leans against the Mayor's desk)
>
> The Mayor whistles at Allan, who immediately stands back up. "But I
> guess we're past that now. This year is too important to let a loose
> cannon rock the boat."
>
> My notes again: We know that it was almost certainly the Mayor who
> ruined Balthazar's plans. It was probably also the Mayor who sunk the
> church when The Master tried to open the Hellmouth before.
--Thanks for bringing up the Mayor scene, which was very significant
(and amusing: I loved the stuff about the mixed metaphors, boats,
cannons, etc.). I noticed that AOQ had completely failed to mention
this scene.
But other than that one omission, I felt as if AOQ and I were
completely on the same page as regards this episode. It's the first
time in a long time I've felt that way. After the weirdness of giving
DMP an "Excellent," I never really expected AOQ to appreciate the same
things about an episode that I appreciated. Yet everything he
mentioned about LW was something that I, too, enjoyed.
If anything, AOQ probably likes LW better than I do. It's an episode
that I absolutely adored in the fall of 1998 when it first aired, but
for various reasons I won't go into it's an episode I've come to like
less and less over time.
Not that it doesn't still have its good points. And AOQ did a great
job of hghlighting them (except for the Mayor part).
Clairel
Apteryx
news:1142299274....@j52g2000cwj.googlegroups.com...
> Quick note: I like the episode a lot, BUT I always thought "the kiss"
> in those circumstances was more than quickly forgiveable. I felt bad
> for Cordy and all, but really? Oz? Ditto.
Me too. On the basis of what we know, Cordy's reaction is justified, but on
the basis of what she knows (two close friends kissing when locked in an
abandoned factory and expecting to die) it seems OTT.
This was one of 2 negatives that for a long time had me rating this episode
much lower than I now do. The other was how long it had Xander and Willow in
peril, with Spike and then alone in the factory. You can leave a minor
character in peril that long, and keep up the suspense as to whether they
will surive. And you can put a major character in immediate peril, and the
audience can be swept up and believe in that peril while the adrenalin is
still running. But even after Jenny, if you leave 2 major characters in
peril as long as they do here, you give the audience time to calculate the
odds on whether they really will kill off one of them this early in a
season. And to me, the odds seemed pretty long, and their "peril" started to
get tiresome.
But I got over it, and started to appreciate what the episode did do, rather
than get too bitter over what it failed to do. Every scene with Spike (and
that is a lot) is great. Especially with Joyce, and his "growth" from "She
didn't even care enough to cut off my head, or set me on fire! I mean, is
that too much to ask?" to "I'll find her, wherever she is, tie her up,
torture her... until she likes me again."
I still wouldn't agree with AOQ's Excellent rating, but that is just that
the rating that I chose to correspond to his Excellent (or better) is pretty
high, and only 17 episodes currently meet it. For me, this is the 28th best
BtVS episode, 7th best in Season 3 (though all but one of the better
episodes in this season - Band Candy at 22nd - are still to come).
--
Apteryx
Don Sample
"Apteryx" <apt...@extra.co.nz> wrote:
> "kenm47" <ken...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
> news:1142299274....@j52g2000cwj.googlegroups.com...
> > Quick note: I like the episode a lot, BUT I always thought "the kiss"
> > in those circumstances was more than quickly forgiveable. I felt bad
> > for Cordy and all, but really? Oz? Ditto.
>
> Me too. On the basis of what we know, Cordy's reaction is justified, but on
> the basis of what she knows (two close friends kissing when locked in an
> abandoned factory and expecting to die) it seems OTT.
She's been noticing that Willow and Xander have been acting weird
together for weeks. Now she understands why. She realized that what
she was seeing wasn't just caused by the stress of of the moment, but
that it had been going on for some time.
Arbitrar Of Quality
Don Sample wrote:
> In article <MWrRf.6088$JZ1.1...@news.xtra.co.nz>,
> "Apteryx" <apt...@extra.co.nz> wrote:
>
> > "kenm47" <ken...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
> > news:1142299274....@j52g2000cwj.googlegroups.com...
> > > Quick note: I like the episode a lot, BUT I always thought "the kiss"
> > > in those circumstances was more than quickly forgiveable. I felt bad
> > > for Cordy and all, but really? Oz? Ditto.
> >
> > Me too. On the basis of what we know, Cordy's reaction is justified, but on
> > the basis of what she knows (two close friends kissing when locked in an
> > abandoned factory and expecting to die) it seems OTT.
>
> She's been noticing that Willow and Xander have been acting weird
> together for weeks. Now she understands why. She realized that what
> she was seeing wasn't just caused by the stress of of the moment, but
> that it had been going on for some time.
Agreed with that.
But also, there's another reason Cordelia can be expected to be angrier
than the average bear. As painful as I find it to do so, think about
it from her POV. As far as she's concerned, she's dating below her
station. She "knows" that she could do "better" than Xander, and be
"better" than hanging out with Buffy's crowd. Add confusion over the
fact that she's seriously fallen for him, to the point of compromising
her "principles." But in any case, Xander "should" be really really
fucking grateful to have somehow ended up with a girl like her.
Instead he runs into the arms of the one person as freaky as he is?
Hell hath no fury like a cheerleader scorned.
-AOQ
George W Harris
wrote:
:This was one of 2 negatives that for a long time had me rating this episode
:much lower than I now do. The other was how long it had Xander and Willow in
:peril, with Spike and then alone in the factory. You can leave a minor
:character in peril that long, and keep up the suspense as to whether they
:will surive. And you can put a major character in immediate peril, and the
:audience can be swept up and believe in that peril while the adrenalin is
:still running. But even after Jenny, if you leave 2 major characters in
:peril as long as they do here, you give the audience time to calculate the
:odds on whether they really will kill off one of them this early in a
:season. And to me, the odds seemed pretty long, and their "peril" started to
:get tiresome.
The peril wasn't for us, it was for them. It
was to force them to kiss.
--
"Intelligence is too complex to capture in a single number." -Alfred Binet
George W. Harris For actual email address, replace each 'u' with an 'i'
William George Ferguson
wrote:
>A reminder: Please avoid spoilers for later episodes in these review
>threads.
>
>
>BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER
>Season Three, Episode 8: "Lovers Walk"
>(or "About fucking time!")
>Writer: Dan Vebber
>Director: David Semel
>
>After some (but not much) thought, I decided to go with the
>apostrophe-free version of the title.
Like 'Out of Mind, Out of Sight' it is very much intentional. As you
figure, this is the 'every romance comes crashing down' episode.
>LW begins with some fluff (and setup for future stories) about SAT
>results; Buffy did well. But the real money moment of the teaser is
>when Cordelia asks "what kind of moron would ever wanna come back
>here?" hinting at where we're going... immediately followed by the
>Darkmobile wiping out yet another sign. This could be a lot of fun.
>My one complaint is that Spike flopping out of the car looks too much
>like someone inside is throwing him out.
Note that Everyone is impressed with Buffy's combined score, and shocked
at Cordy's, but Willow (without a lot of arguement) is calling herself
Cletus the Slack-Jawed Yokel for her score, which is probably 100 points
higher than Buffy's. Basically, the SAT consists of 2 scores, the Verbal
and the Math. Perfect for each is 800. Willow is grousing about her
Verbal, but not her Math (where anything off would trigger an even
stronger reaction). Presuming she aced the Math, her score would be 1540
to Buffy's 1430.
>So Spike is now reduced to drunkenly staggering through the town
>whining about Drusilla. Is the character diminished here? That was my
>initial thought, but as the episode played out, I came to remember that
>almost as long as we've known Spike he's been a petty individual
>prone to losing control of situations. Drusilla has always been his
>greatest weakness, to the point of being the absolute center of his
>world. After seeing "Lovers Walk" I'm baffled that the show ever
>tried to set Spike up as an arch-villain. This broken shell of a loser
>has been underneath the bravado for quite some time (at least since
>S/I); this *is* the "real" Spike. To me, it reads like Joss et al
>had one idea for the character originally and then changed direction
>midway through S2 once they got a better idea who he was (and Don's
>post about the original plans for Spike would support that). Does
>anyone have any contradictory evidence?
The 'Love's Bitch' speech (which you mention) lays it out about Spike.
Also keep in mind his comments to Buffy in the 'happy meals with feet'
speech in Becoming, about how vampires like to talk big.
>Another oddly funny highlight is the Spike/Joyce/Angel/Buffy sequence.
>We fade to commercial with Spike given the opportunity to do anything
>he wants to Joyce... and come back to hear him telling his chaos demon
>story. Again. Now *that's* humor through repetition. It's the
>hardest I've laughed at BTVS in recent memory. Angel tries to
>protect Joyce from the unknown-to-her menace, but doesn't have an
>invite, until Buffy shows up to save the day. Classic delivery on
>"why don't you come on in?" For once, Joyce behaves very
>rationally here given what she knows, and her constant questions about
>what's going on and who's a witch make sense, along with giving the
>scene more comedic timing.
One thing a lot of people have commented on is the chemistry between James
Marsters and Kristine Sutherland, not romantic chemistry but acting
chemistry. All the Spike/Joyce scenes just sparkle, going all the way
back to School Hard.
>So Xander and Willow decide to give in to what they know is wrong under
>the legal argument of "exemption for impending death situation."
>Heh. I'd buy that precedent. This is another one of those episodes,
>like "Homecoming," where their scenes manage to seem impossibly
>cute regardless of what they're doing to their friends. And this
>setup actually managed to let the show get away with using the tired
>device of "both significant others catch them making out" without
>drawing even an eye-bat from me. Impressive.
>
>Meanwhile Spike is taking a second to cut to the heart of the
>Buffy/Angel non-relationship.
Spike's 'Love's Bitch' lecture is generally considered one of the
highlight moments of the entire series.
>And then some of Trick's employees
>show up. There's a lot going on in this episode, huh? The only
>thing that would've made it more fun is if the tricky one himself had
>put in an appearance to have a little flippant-off. Ah, well. The
>ensuing action sequence is nice, especially the holy water grenades,
Hereinafter known as the 'Holy Water Handgrenades of Sunnydale'.
>and just the chance to see Angel and Buffy fighting together like old
>times. And then that takes us directly into probably the best
>anti-climax of the series thus far, with "oh, sod the spell. Your
>friends are at the factory." Heh.
>
>And then there's the funeral gag where the show teases us with the
>death of a main character. I love it when ME shows do that. This had
>Mrs. Quality celebrating (hey, it's Cordelia), and me rapidly running
>through scenarios under which she could come back as a vampire or
>something. Oh, well.
As an aside, there was a lot of newsgroup discussion of whether Cordy
could realistically survive that impalement, until it was pointed out that
in real life Charisma Carpenter had survived exactly that. She was
playing at a construction site when she was 5, and slipped and fell on a
jutting piece of iron rebar, impaling herself. If you look at a bikini
shot of Carpenter (there are a lot, she worked as a bikini model before
she got the Malibu Shores gig, which led to the Buffy gig), you can see
the scar, on the right side, just below the breastbone.
>So, LW ends with all our heroes alone and miserable. Yet the episode
>throws in one last smile for those who need a hug - Spike singing
>along to the radio at the top of his lungs as he rides off into the
>sunset. Murdering demon or not, it was good to see you again, mate.
>A few short takes, mostly about the end:
>Why is Oz not the one playing the song at the end? Contrived, maybe,
>but it'd have worked.
Remember that Spike and Dru (and their horribly dysfunctional
relationship) was originally described by Whedon as a "sort of vampire Sid
& Nancy"? (we're bound to have mentioned it back when you did those
episodes at the start of season 2) That was Sid Vicious' cover of My Way
that he was singing along to. Very appropriate.
Next up, my second-lowest rated episode of the entire series (but I'm in a
distinct minority there).
--
HERBERT
1996 - 1997
Beloved Mascot
Delightful Meal
He fed the Pack
A little
Apteryx
news:dsample-E794A9...@news.giganews.com...
> In article <MWrRf.6088$JZ1.1...@news.xtra.co.nz>,
> "Apteryx" <apt...@extra.co.nz> wrote:
>
>> "kenm47" <ken...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
>> news:1142299274....@j52g2000cwj.googlegroups.com...
>> > Quick note: I like the episode a lot, BUT I always thought "the kiss"
>> > in those circumstances was more than quickly forgiveable. I felt bad
>> > for Cordy and all, but really? Oz? Ditto.
>>
>> Me too. On the basis of what we know, Cordy's reaction is justified, but
>> on
>> the basis of what she knows (two close friends kissing when locked in an
>> abandoned factory and expecting to die) it seems OTT.
>
> She's been noticing that Willow and Xander have been acting weird
> together for weeks. Now she understands why. She realized that what
> she was seeing wasn't just caused by the stress of of the moment, but
> that it had been going on for some time.
All she's had a chance to see so far is moments of confusion and clumsiness.
And this is Xander and Willow we are talking about, so nothing out of the
ordinary. While it is to be possible that over a period of hours or days she
might come to put those things together with what she sees in the factory,
it is asking a bit much of the Cordy that we have come to know (and some of
us to love) for her to put the jigsaw together on the spot. And still
unreasonable not to even offer Xander the chance of explaining.
--
Apteryx
Apteryx
news:1142315345....@v46g2000cwv.googlegroups.com...
I agree that the fact that she is dating down will make her angrier when she
knows she has been cheated on. But I am talking about how quickly she
realises she has been cheated on, and if anything it should slow her
realisation. The one advantage of dating down is that you don't expect your
partner to have any options they might choose over you.
--
Apteryx
Don Sample
William George Ferguson <wmgf...@newsguy.com> wrote:
> As an aside, there was a lot of newsgroup discussion of whether Cordy
> could realistically survive that impalement, until it was pointed out that
> in real life Charisma Carpenter had survived exactly that. She was
> playing at a construction site when she was 5, and slipped and fell on a
> jutting piece of iron rebar, impaling herself. If you look at a bikini
> shot of Carpenter (there are a lot, she worked as a bikini model before
> she got the Malibu Shores gig, which led to the Buffy gig), you can see
> the scar, on the right side, just below the breastbone.
No she didn't survive exactly that. Carpenter fell on a piece of rebar
that penetrated an inch or two into her from the front. Cordy's piece
of rebar went in her back and came out her front, a much more serious
wound.
(But still survivable, depending on exactly where it went through.)
Don Sample
>
> Remember that Spike and Dru (and their horribly dysfunctional
> relationship) was originally described by Whedon as a "sort of vampire Sid
> & Nancy"? (we're bound to have mentioned it back when you did those
> episodes at the start of season 2) That was Sid Vicious' cover of My Way
> that he was singing along to. Very appropriate.
Actually it was Gary Oldman's version, from the "Sid and Nancy" movie,
in which he played Sid.
Don Sample
> Next up, my second-lowest rated episode of the entire series (but I'm in a
> distinct minority there).
But you've got company. We're an exclusive club, requiring refined
taste to join.
(It's my least favourite episode though.)
hopelessly devoted
Arbitrar Of Quality wrote:
> BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER
> Season Three, Episode 8: "Lovers Walk"
Cordelia asks "what kind of moron would ever wanna come back
> here?" hinting at where we're going... immediately followed by the
> Darkmobile wiping out yet another sign. This could be a lot of fun.
The Darkmobile - I'll have to remember that pharse. LOL :->
Ah, you never how much you miss them until they're gone.
> My one complaint is that Spike flopping out of the car looks too much
> like someone inside is throwing him out.
How very true.
> So Spike is now reduced to drunkenly staggering through the town
> whining about Drusilla. Is the character diminished here? That was my
> initial thought, but as the episode played out, I came to remember that
> almost as long as we've known Spike he's been a petty individual
> prone to losing control of situations. Drusilla has always been his
> greatest weakness, to the point of being the absolute center of his
> world. After seeing "Lovers Walk" I'm baffled that the show ever
> tried to set Spike up as an arch-villain. This broken shell of a loser
> has been underneath the bravado for quite some time (at least since
> S/I); this *is* the "real" Spike. To me, it reads like Joss et al
> had one idea for the character originally and then changed direction
> midway through S2 once they got a better idea who he was (and Don's
> post about the original plans for Spike would support that). Does
> anyone have any contradictory evidence?
>
> Given all the X/W stuff we've been seeing lately, it makes sense that
> we get a few moments showing what they'd be giving up; Cordelia has
> pictures of herself with Xander in her locker, and Oz has a PEZ
> dispenser for Willow. Funny, sweet moments, especially the latter,
> since it's a very Oz kind of present that only Willow could
> appreciate quite so much.
Something interesting, although perhaps pointless: X has pictures of
C, C has pictures of X, however no Oz in W's and Oz's contents,
unknown. Hmmmmmm. ???
Also a very interesting comment:
Willow: I don't have anything to give you.
Oz: Yeah, you do.
Sort of makes me believe that Oz may have had a clue while, as some
have already suggested, Cordy did not.
This leads into the attempted witchcraft
> that inadvertently brings Spike into the story. Xander immediately
> figures out what's going on, and refuses to play along. Nice. He at
> least realizes that they need to work out their problems themselves
> rather than relying on spells, even if he doesn't actually go through
> with it. The reference to him having bad luck with these spells is a
> bit of character consistency and also reinforces the fact that LW could
> not be more different from "Banal, Bothersome, and Bloody Awful" in
> how it treats either comedy or love.
Two very telling things:
Xander: What are they going to know? That we're friends.
Xander: Clean this place up before they get here and start asking
questions.
While he's reluctant to try Willow's spell, preferring to control the
hormones on his own, he does seem content to go on with the hiding.
A couple of shocks in this ep:
Buffy's a brain!
While she is struggling with her new found future with both Giles and
Joyce, it is Angel that cuts the deepest. His suggestion that she
leave really strikes a chord of emotions with her.
Only a few eps ago, she was more than willing to run away AGAIN, and
now she's reluctant to leave and hurt by Angel's suggestion..
Buffy is still keeping Joyce in the dark about certain aspects of her
life.
The Mayor offering Allen's soul, plus his knowledge of Spike. He, at
this point, was still getting the Hmmm? Look, but is now becoming
interesting in spite of his obvious nonchalant demeanor.
Not a good idea to pass out on the eastern side of a building,
especially if you're a vampire.
MOST SHOCKING OF ALL!!!:
How did they get the very well endowed and very bare wall sculpture
past the FCC?
> Another oddly funny highlight is the Spike/Joyce/Angel/Buffy sequence.
> We fade to commercial with Spike given the opportunity to do anything
> he wants to Joyce... and come back to hear him telling his chaos demon
> story. Again. Now *that's* humor through repetition. It's the
> hardest I've laughed at BTVS in recent memory.
IMO, one of the finest commercial breaks in Buffy history. The agony,
the pain. The terrible, terrible waiting.
For once, Joyce behaves very
> rationally here given what she knows, and her constant questions about
> what's going on and who's a witch make sense, along with giving the
> scene more comedic timing.
A scene to be topped for sure....... more later. (EBOVA: Fb, ur unf n
gevttre, n fbhy, naq n puvc?)
The
> ensuing action sequence is nice, especially the holy water grenades,
> and just the chance to see Angel and Buffy fighting together like old
> times.
Fight scenes are certainly getting more intricate and elaborate. Loved
the trashcan and the double twist.
And then that takes us directly into probably the best
> anti-climax of the series thus far, with "oh, sod the spell. Your
> friends are at the factory." Heh.
>
> And then there's the funeral gag where the show teases us with the
> death of a main character. I love it when ME shows do that. This had
> Mrs. Quality celebrating (hey, it's Cordelia), and me rapidly running
> through scenarios under which she could come back as a vampire or
> something. Oh, well.
A great twist no matter which side of the Cordy fence you happen to
sit.
> Given how much of a joy the bulk of LW is, the ending sequences are
> quite depressing. Loneliness of Six. Beautiful Beck. Buffy finally realizing that she needs to take some responsibility in the relationship. But will it last.
At this point, I knew that AtS was coming but I still had my doubts as
to DB's acting ability. He just didn't sell the end scene for me. SMG
does however pull it off nicely
Things are not thrown out of whack because of anything supernatural
(although Spike was certainly a catalyst), but very basic, human
everyday attraction. And the only one that walks away happy is the one
who started the whole thing. Very wonderful change from the beginning
of the ep when it was very much the other way around.
Not on my list, though.
shuggie
Arbitrar Of Quality wrote:
> After some (but not much) thought, I decided to go with the
> apostrophe-free version of the title.
>
Fair enough. For some reason that's always escaped me this is a big
deal for some people.
> LW begins with some fluff (and setup for future stories) about SAT
> results; Buffy did well. But the real money moment of the teaser is
> when Cordelia asks "what kind of moron would ever wanna come back
> here?" hinting at where we're going... immediately followed by the
> Darkmobile wiping out yet another sign. This could be a lot of fun.
> My one complaint is that Spike flopping out of the car looks too much
> like someone inside is throwing him out.
>
And yet almost certainly isn't. Much easier, therefore quicker and
cheaper to let James do it himself. My guess is that that was just the
best take and they took it.
> So Spike is now reduced to drunkenly staggering through the town
> whining about Drusilla. Is the character diminished here? That was my
> initial thought, but as the episode played out, I came to remember that
> almost as long as we've known Spike he's been a petty individual
> prone to losing control of situations. Drusilla has always been his
> greatest weakness, to the point of being the absolute center of his
> world. After seeing "Lovers Walk" I'm baffled that the show ever
> tried to set Spike up as an arch-villain. This broken shell of a loser
> has been underneath the bravado for quite some time (at least since
> S/I); this *is* the "real" Spike. To me, it reads like Joss et al
> had one idea for the character originally and then changed direction
> midway through S2 once they got a better idea who he was (and Don's
> post about the original plans for Spike would support that). Does
> anyone have any contradictory evidence?
>
No. I think that it's clear that initially Spike was supposed to be
this real badass villain (recall Angel's description of him) but that
later they had to have Angelus be more so - which made him look a
little less so by comparison. The "happy meals with legs" speech gives
him a kind of softer side, as does his love for Dru. So by the time we
reach this episode this idea - that Spike is basically a fragile
romantic covering with lots of bravado - fits very well.
It's what I'd call a successful retcon in the sense that it is a change
to how the character was orginally conceived but the changes work
(apart from Angel's description which is a little over the top).
> Given all the X/W stuff we've been seeing lately, it makes sense that
> we get a few moments showing what they'd be giving up; Cordelia has
> pictures of herself with Xander in her locker, and Oz has a PEZ
> dispenser for Willow. Funny, sweet moments, especially the latter,
> since it's a very Oz kind of present that only Willow could
> appreciate quite so much. This leads into the attempted witchcraft
> that inadvertently brings Spike into the story. Xander immediately
> figures out what's going on, and refuses to play along. Nice. He at
> least realizes that they need to work out their problems themselves
> rather than relying on spells, even if he doesn't actually go through
> with it. The reference to him having bad luck with these spells is a
> bit of character consistency and also reinforces the fact that LW could
> not be more different from "Banal, Bothersome, and Bloody Awful" in
> how it treats either comedy or love.
>
Both excellent. Not sure if it's worth getting into but I really don't
see that much difference in the humour. It's pretty broad in both.
> Spike's attack on Xander seems more brutal/damaging than what we
> usually get on this show.
Yes and no. One of the things I always liked about the show was that
they didn't just have characters hit over the head, knocked out and
then be completely fine a few minutes later. Giles has to go to
hospital in Revelations and Xander's wound here seems realistic. I like
that BtVS is prepared to show us the consequences (God I seem to have
been typing that word a lot lately!) of violence.
> The bits featuring him intimidating Willow
> into helping with his spell masterfully hit several moods at once.
> Spike really is a comedic figure here so these scenes are a lot of fun
> to watch ("what are you staring at?" and of course the classic
> chaos demon story), but despite that (or maybe because of it), he's
> potentially very dangerous, and we feel that too.
>
Yes. I have my reservations about JM's acting at times (I think he
relies too much on his charisma) but here he's excellent. Flicking from
menacing to funny and back in a line of dialogue is impressive. Of
course the actual dialogue helps - it's well-written. And if I'm not
mistaken that's one of the first times they've done a transition to
vamp-face in a moving shot like that. Early on they had to have the
actor stay still.
> Another oddly funny highlight is the Spike/Joyce/Angel/Buffy sequence.
> We fade to commercial with Spike given the opportunity to do anything
> he wants to Joyce... and come back to hear him telling his chaos demon
> story. Again. Now *that's* humor through repetition.
OK now I get why you see this as different - you're laughing at things
I didn't even find funny. The scene as a whole raises a smile and the
exchange about mini-marshmallows yes, but not the mere fact of
repetition of the story.
>It's the
> hardest I've laughed at BTVS in recent memory. Angel tries to
> protect Joyce from the unknown-to-her menace, but doesn't have an
> invite, until Buffy shows up to save the day. Classic delivery on
> "why don't you come on in?"
Really? Unremarkable line IMO. I prefer the "that would be me" in
response to "you and who's army?"
>For once, Joyce behaves very
> rationally here given what she knows, and her constant questions about
> what's going on and who's a witch make sense, along with giving the
> scene more comedic timing.
>
To borrow your phrase it's pretty stock joke writing. Effective though.
Sold as you say by the performances.
> So Xander and Willow decide to give in to what they know is wrong under
> the legal argument of "exemption for impending death situation."
> Heh. I'd buy that precedent. This is another one of those episodes,
> like "Homecoming," where their scenes manage to seem impossibly
> cute regardless of what they're doing to their friends. And this
> setup actually managed to let the show get away with using the tired
> device of "both significant others catch them making out" without
> drawing even an eye-bat from me. Impressive.
>
I'm not sure it's that tired - not for *both* to find out at the same
time. Anyhow it works as you say.
> Meanwhile Spike is taking a second to cut to the heart of the
> Buffy/Angel non-relationship.
He's doing more than that. He's also telling you a hell of lot about
his view of the world and therefore who he is. "I may be Love's bitch
but at least I'm man enough to admit it" could be said to sum up Spike
as per your description above.
>And then some of Trick's employees
> show up. There's a lot going on in this episode, huh? The only
> thing that would've made it more fun is if the tricky one himself had
> put in an appearance to have a little flippant-off. Ah, well. The
> ensuing action sequence is nice, especially the holy water grenades,
> and just the chance to see Angel and Buffy fighting together like old
> times. And then that takes us directly into probably the best
> anti-climax of the series thus far, with "oh, sod the spell. Your
> friends are at the factory." Heh.
>
It is of course a cheat to end the episode quickly but they get away
with it.
> And then there's the funeral gag where the show teases us with the
> death of a main character. I love it when ME shows do that. This had
> Mrs. Quality celebrating (hey, it's Cordelia), and me rapidly running
> through scenarios under which she could come back as a vampire or
> something. Oh, well.
>
You're a sick man.
> Given how much of a joy the bulk of LW is, the ending sequences are
> quite depressing. This isn't a stylistic clash at all; in fact, the
> end comes off almost as a penance for all the fun we've been having
> with potentially serious matters (and with those sin-laden X/W scenes).
> Actually, I kept having fun, since Xander and Cordelia break up at the
> end. Rock on. Yeah, I know they could get back together next week,
> but if you don't mind, I would like to savor this.
Sick, sick, sick.
>And the scene works
> even without my particular sentiments, given that we can see it from
> either character's perspective. Personally, if I were Cordelia, I
> wouldn't forgive Xander either. In its infinite cruelty, the show
> holds off on giving a final answer on the exact status of Willow and
> the two guys in her life, which is what I really cared about. Well, we
> have the DVDs, we don't have to wait a week. So there.
>
> That's not sad enough yet, so we also have a moment with Buffy saying
> goodbye to Angel yet again. After all they've been through, will
> self-restraint be what finally ends things? Nothing else could. We
> shall see. I'd just like to mention "I don't accept that" as
> an example of how much pain can be loaded into one line. How can an
> actor incorporate such deep sadness and desperation into his delivery
> without actually seeming to emote? It's a secret to everyone.
>
Hmm, you see great acting where I see lack of expression.
> So, LW ends with all our heroes alone and miserable. Yet the episode
> throws in one last smile for those who need a hug - Spike singing
> along to the radio at the top of his lungs as he rides off into the
> sunset. Murdering demon or not, it was good to see you again, mate.
>
Indeed it's exactly the right note to end on.
>
> AOQ rating: Excellent
>
Even though I disagree with some of your reasons I agree with your
rating.
Mike Zeares
>
> After some (but not much) thought, I decided to go with the
> apostrophe-free version of the title.
Which is apparently the correct version (so the DVD menu screen is
wrong). "Walk" is a verb.
> Spike's attack on Xander seems more brutal/damaging than what we
> usually get on this show. The bits featuring him intimidating Willow
> into helping with his spell masterfully hit several moods at once.
> Spike really is a comedic figure here so these scenes are a lot of fun
> to watch ("what are you staring at?" and of course the classic
> chaos demon story), but despite that (or maybe because of it), he's
> potentially very dangerous, and we feel that too.
Willow's fear is very palpable, and Spike's thread to shove the broken
bottle into her brain is very believable.
> One-sentence summary: Plenty of fun to be had at others' expense.
>
> AOQ rating: Excellent
The episode had to be heavily rewritten at the last minute when Juliet
wasn't available to play Dru, so the plot is a bit thin in places
(Spike's scene on the bench seems like pure padding). But it also has
some absolutely classic scenes. I love the shot of Spike blasting out
of town, leaving romantic chaos in his wake. And it has one of my
all-time favorite fight scenes. Kung-fu! Pipe-fu! Table-fu! Mop
handle-fu! Ladder-fu! Holy water-fu! Gratuitous head-bashing!
Drive-In Acadamy Award nominations for Spike ("Baby like his supper?")
and Buffy ("I violently dislike you!"). 4 stars. Mike Bob says don't
miss it.
-- Mike Zeares
jil...@hotmail.com
Don Sample wrote:
> In article <1142297292.0...@i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
> "jil...@hotmail.com" <jil...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >
> > Zl abgrf ntnva: Jr xabj gung vg jnf nyzbfg pregnvayl gur Znlbe jub
> > ehvarq Onygunmne'f cynaf. Vg jnf cebonoyl nyfb gur Znlbe jub fhax gur
> > puhepu jura Gur Znfgre gevrq gb bcra gur Uryyzbhgu orsber. V'z whfg
> > thrffvat. Ohg vg'f cebonoyl n fnsr nffhzcgvba.
>
> Pnershy. Obgu Onygunmne, naq pbapergr rivqrapr bs gur Znlbe'f ntr ner
> shgher riragf.
Darnit! I completely forgot that.
KenM47
>In article <MWrRf.6088$JZ1.1...@news.xtra.co.nz>,
> "Apteryx" <apt...@extra.co.nz> wrote:
>
>> "kenm47" <ken...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
>> news:1142299274....@j52g2000cwj.googlegroups.com...
>> > Quick note: I like the episode a lot, BUT I always thought "the kiss"
>> > in those circumstances was more than quickly forgiveable. I felt bad
>> > for Cordy and all, but really? Oz? Ditto.
>>
>> Me too. On the basis of what we know, Cordy's reaction is justified, but on
>> the basis of what she knows (two close friends kissing when locked in an
>> abandoned factory and expecting to die) it seems OTT.
>
>She's been noticing that Willow and Xander have been acting weird
>together for weeks. Now she understands why. She realized that what
>she was seeing wasn't just caused by the stress of of the moment, but
>that it had been going on for some time.
It's bad soap opera for the characters to refuse to talk to each other
about it. Yes, I get that they are still just high school students and
all, but it rang false for me.
Ken (Brooklyn)
eli...@gmail.com
Oh yes. And no. He's the Slayer of Slayers _and_ love's bitch! Which is
why he's so fascinating.
>I'd just like to mention "I don't accept that" as an example of how much pain can be loaded into one line. How can an actor incorporate such deep sadness and desperation into his delivery without actually seeming to emote? It's a secret to everyone.
Loved the way you put that.
kenm47
I agree with her "right" to wraith. I duisagree that somehow you debase
her emotions, almost like she's too good looking to have genuine
feelings. I think ME decided somewhere along the way that they wanted
to show that a very attractive female could move beyond bimbo and be a
fully formed thinking person. Considering where thery started her, I
think they moved her along most of the way credibly.
kenm47
Don Sample wrote:
> In article <24lc12tnpfrau5476...@4ax.com>,
> William George Ferguson <wmgf...@newsguy.com> wrote:
>
> >
> > Remember that Spike and Dru (and their horribly dysfunctional
> > relationship) was originally described by Whedon as a "sort of vampire Sid
> > & Nancy"? (we're bound to have mentioned it back when you did those
> > episodes at the start of season 2) That was Sid Vicious' cover of My Way
> > that he was singing along to. Very appropriate.
>
> Actually it was Gary Oldman's version, from the "Sid and Nancy" movie,
> in which he played Sid.
>
> --
>
OT: Oldham is a great actor. I highly recommend the uncut "Leon, The
Professional" for him and almost everything else in it.
Ken (Brooklyn)
kenm47
P.S.:
Vg nyfb frrzf gur K/P oernxhc znl nyfb unir orra qevira ol gur Natry
fcvabss, naq, vs fb, fbzrjung pyhzfvyl qbar gb trg vg bire jvgu.
Ken (Brooklyn)
