AOQ Review 5-21: "The Weight Of The World"
Arbitrar Of Quality
threads.
BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER
Season Five, Episode 21: "The Weight Of The World"
(or "Buffy shrugged")
Writer: Douglas Petrie
Director: David Solomon
Yeah, way to get AOQ love, start with Glory and her minions. You know,
I'm glad Glory and her minions never bred with the Initiative
commandoes, because then they'd create a race of beings capable of
inducing enough apathy to end civilization. Or to get me to stop
watching, anyway. Not much else to say about the early scenes, except
that Dawn doesn't quite work for me in sobbing mode; she seems like a
little kid rather than a teen who's scared enough to become a little
kid.
Back to the Scoobies, where a few things fall into place nicely.
Buffy's not just uncertain, she's retreated into herself, or
something. And Spike is around to come up with a deceptively simple
explanation for why no one seems to notice that there might be some
kind of connection between Ben and Glory. Some of you who aren't
first-timers have been playing off that all year, but it is indeed
quite amusing, the show's best running joke in ages. And then they
have the sense to end it before it can get run into the ground. I
think the gag benefits from having Spike there to be alternately
amusingly annoyed or just amused ("is everyone here very stoned?").
It's not just the funny parts. That scene as a whole is exquisitely
constructed. You've got Spike's direct approach towards talking to
the Slayer, which would be funny enough on its own, and Xander then
saying that they've already tried that. Heh. (Yes, the real
punchline comes a few lines later, but the setup is its own reward.)
You have Xander going nuts on Spike as their frustrations bubble to the
surface in a believable way, and passions fly high enough that I was
swept away in that, totally feeling the former's righteous anger.
Like the characters, I also needed Willow around to remind me that the
bickering was a waste of time. A spell wasn't really needed to
separate the guys, but she's tending towards overkill too, I guess.
And finally, you have the Red Witch keeping her head in a crisis -
I'm glad someone remembered that she can do that - and becoming the
group's best hope. I like my Willow-in-charge scenes more
"Halloween" and less "Earshot." Not having Buffy to default to
hiding behind tends to bring out the best in her, huh?
After that, the bulk of the show turns into a search through dreams and
memories. Mostly dreamlike memories, tied together by ugly-dress-Buffy
going through her bookshelf. The setup to this is worth a mention too,
with Wil getting ready to "leave." Oh, almost forgot to mention
Anya's forced but not too obviously fake "good luck" leading into
a more sincere repetition. In any case, dream devices have been used
before, so each time the show has to work a little harder to keep it
fresh. I think they succeed. I like the quiet go-to-commercial moment
at the end of act one, and Buffy's calm certainty while smothering
Dawn is perfect to make the moment work.
The memories have enough interest to hold one's attention, although I
imagine how they could have gotten boring for someone who had to relive
them over and over. I don't recall the show doing a loop to this
extent before. That kinda explains why the end is so easy too;
Buffy's head is caught in a cycle, and just needs to be re-routed a
little to realize that saving the world again might help. And right
before watching this episode I was wondering to what extent the First
Slayer story would be remembered, so good to see everything starting to
fit together. So far the death obsession has been more of a
distraction than anything resembling useful advice. There's also a
tie-in to "Fool For Love," as Buffy describes having a moment of
wanting to give up, in the middle of a routine activity, and it has
far-reaching effects. The overall feel is that of an episode that's
at least touching on the year's thematic threads.
The other big element that makes it all work is Willow's reactions to
all this, which I think are spot on. From the urgent confusion
underneath clever lines like "I think we already deja'd this vu,"
to the more purely funny parts (deadpanning "you're the First
original Slayer who tried killing us all in our dreams. How've you
been?" or echoing Buffy's confusion from "Intervention") to
ultimately putting together the right thing to say. Have I mentioned
that I like Willow?
Having the two Buffys do the last conversation "should" feel like
the kind of pointless effect to which the show doesn't normally sink,
except that I kinda liked it. I guess in some sense when I think
about it, the solution is too easy, the problem itself a little too
much of an artificial construct. People have crises of faith, but they
only shut down this way and need to have their minds infiltrated when
the writers want to make an episode out of it. But that's all
after-the-fact critiquing, whereas the end result was that once one
accepts the device, TWOTW is a solidly entertaining episode the likes
of which the series desperately needed.
I think this is Hank's first appearance in almost three years. I was
sorta expecting that he'd loom larger over the series based on the
way things were going back in late S1/early S2. As it is, his most
consistent contribution to BTVS has been the hole left by his absence.
There are other things going on in the show, including some stuff with
the villain as her control starts to slip a little and the lines
between the personas start to blur. Pseudo-compassionate Glory is a
little better than the regular version, and Glory-esque Self-Obsessed
Ben is a vast improvement. The face flipping back and forth while they
argue is another silly device that works better than it should. I like
the way Ben's able to inspire little moments of trust in Dawn,
despite everything, and then makes it clear over and over where his
true colors are. I was afraid the show wouldn't remember that,
although he's been wronged, he's rotten to the core too (first
established in "Listening To Fear"). Most of the Benjamin story
works better that way.
"This ... is gonna be worth it." "Ow!" Quite the pair, those
two (Spike and Mr. Harris, for those who don't remember the quote).
TWOTW also brings back the elusive Action Hero Xander, taking out Doc,
albeit temporarily. Everyone's interested in the Key, huh? Glad to
see Joel Gray back again, even if his character ends up being more
one-note than I'd hoped. On the plus side, the CGI actually looks
pretty good. Kinda reminds me of the movie version of Toad (from
_X-Men_).
One thing I'm not so on board with is the ending scene, with Giles
providing the plot to us in a blob of exposition. Exposition that
doesn't tell the characters anything they shouldn't have already
known after "Spiral." The end-of-episode cliffhanger falls a bit
flat, since the idea of killing Dawn isn't exactly new. I still say
we kill Ben instead; maybe it'd have played better if that weren't
available as a potential "out." Who can say?
According to the transcript, a look around Xander's room tells the
viewer that there's MONEY in arc-welding. Just mentioning it.
So...
One-sentence summary: Pretty interesting.
AOQ rating: Good
[Season Five so far:
1) "Buffy Vs. Dracula" - Good
2) "Real Me" - Decent
3) "The Replacement" - Good
4) "Out Of My Mind" - Weak
5) "No Place Like Home" - Decent
6) "Family" - Excellent
7) "Fool For Love" - Excellent
8) "Shadow" - Good
9) "Listening To Fear" - Decent
10) "Into The Woods" - Good
11) "Triangle" - Decent
12) "Checkpoint" - Decent
13) "Blood Ties" - Good
14) "Crush" - Excellent
15) "I Was Made To Love You" - Weak
16) "The Body" - Good
17) "Forever" - Decent
18) "Intervention" - Decent
19) "Tough Love" - Decent
20) "Spiral" - Weak
21) "The Weight Of The World" - Good]
mariposas rand mair fheal greykitten tomys des anges
> explanation for why no one seems to notice that there might be some
> kind of connection between Ben and Glory. Some of you who aren't
are you saying theres a relation between ben and glory?
> One thing I'm not so on board with is the ending scene, with Giles
> providing the plot to us in a blob of exposition. Exposition that
> doesn't tell the characters anything they shouldn't have already
> known after "Spiral." The end-of-episode cliffhanger falls a bit
> flat, since the idea of killing Dawn isn't exactly new. I still say
> we kill Ben instead; maybe it'd have played better if that weren't
> available as a potential "out." Who can say?
knights of byzantine having been searching for ben for his entire life
and they wouldve killed him in an instant at the gas station
if they had realized he was glorys prison
the problem is none of them could recognize ben as the prison
also its pointed out that glory can only use the key at one time and place
so the idea of running away wouldve been a success
if kob hadnt interfered
glory would remain trap on earth causing trouble
but only until ben was dead
and not merging dimensions
arf meow arf - nsa fodder
ny dnrqn greebevfz ahpyrne obzo vena gnyvona ovt oebgure
if you meet buddha on the usenet killfile him
MBangel10 (Melissa)
So, you're saying that there is some connection between Ben and Glory?
(sorry, couldn't resist.)
Note: If you're ever in doubt of what to say in a Buffy message board,
this is always an excellent conversation starter... it's been going on
for years!
>
>
> It's not just the funny parts. That scene as a whole is exquisitely
> constructed. You've got Spike's direct approach towards talking to
> the Slayer, which would be funny enough on its own, and Xander then
> saying that they've already tried that. Heh. (Yes, the real
> punchline comes a few lines later, but the setup is its own reward.)
> You have Xander going nuts on Spike as their frustrations bubble to the
> surface in a believable way, and passions fly high enough that I was
> swept away in that, totally feeling the former's righteous anger.
> Like the characters, I also needed Willow around to remind me that the
> bickering was a waste of time. A spell wasn't really needed to
> separate the guys, but she's tending towards overkill too, I guess.
> And finally, you have the Red Witch keeping her head in a crisis -
> I'm glad someone remembered that she can do that - and becoming the
> group's best hope. I like my Willow-in-charge scenes more
> "Halloween" and less "Earshot." Not having Buffy to default to
> hiding behind tends to bring out the best in her, huh?
You could say that....
<snip>
>
> "This ... is gonna be worth it." "Ow!" Quite the pair, those
> two (Spike and Mr. Harris, for those who don't remember the quote).
> TWOTW also brings back the elusive Action Hero Xander, taking out Doc,
> albeit temporarily. Everyone's interested in the Key, huh? Glad to
> see Joel Gray back again, even if his character ends up being more
> one-note than I'd hoped. On the plus side, the CGI actually looks
> pretty good. Kinda reminds me of the movie version of Toad (from
> _X-Men_).
>
One of my favorite S5 moments. Spike and Xander are sort of the 'Odd
Couple' of the Buffyverse, aren't they?
> One thing I'm not so on board with is the ending scene, with Giles
> providing the plot to us in a blob of exposition. Exposition that
> doesn't tell the characters anything they shouldn't have already
> known after "Spiral." The end-of-episode cliffhanger falls a bit
> flat, since the idea of killing Dawn isn't exactly new. I still say
> we kill Ben instead; maybe it'd have played better if that weren't
> available as a potential "out." Who can say?
Ben must die!!!!! :p
>
> According to the transcript, a look around Xander's room tells the
> viewer that there's MONEY in arc-welding. Just mentioning it.
>
I find it somewhat amusing that the previous episode is one that I find
more entertaining than this but I'm just happy that you've finally given
another episode a "good". I was really starting to get worried.
Michael Ikeda
news:1153351189....@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
> A reminder: Please avoid spoilers for later episodes in these
> review threads.
>
>
> BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER
> Season Five, Episode 21: "The Weight Of The World"
> (or "Buffy shrugged")
> Writer: Douglas Petrie
> Director: David Solomon
>
>
> The memories have enough interest to hold one's attention,
> although I imagine how they could have gotten boring for someone
> who had to relive them over and over.
One minor question related to the following exchange:
YOUNG BUFFY: (giggles) You talk funny.
WILLOW: Yes ... as you'll tell me again when we're older and in
chem class.
Willow refers to a conversation she had with Buffy in chem class.
Did we ever see that conversation on screen? I don't think so, but
I could have forgotten it.
> The other big element that makes it all work is Willow's
> reactions to all this, which I think are spot on. From the
> urgent confusion underneath clever lines like "I think we
> already deja'd this vu," to the more purely funny parts
> (deadpanning "you're the First original Slayer who tried killing
> us all in our dreams. How've you been?" or echoing Buffy's
> confusion from "Intervention") to ultimately putting together
> the right thing to say. Have I mentioned that I like Willow?
Possibly once or twice... :)
>
> Having the two Buffys do the last conversation "should" feel
> like the kind of pointless effect to which the show doesn't
> normally sink, except that I kinda liked it. I guess in some
> sense when I think about it, the solution is too easy, the
> problem itself a little too much of an artificial construct.
> People have crises of faith, but they only shut down this way
> and need to have their minds infiltrated when the writers want
> to make an episode out of it.
It's not just the "crisis of faith". Buffy was pushed to the edge
of her mental endurance even before she lost Dawn. Losing Dawn and
the associated guilt was just the last straw.
> One thing I'm not so on board with is the ending scene, with
> Giles providing the plot to us in a blob of exposition.
> Exposition that doesn't tell the characters anything they
> shouldn't have already known after "Spiral."
Although it's one thing to hear it from Gregor (the KoB commander)
it's another thing to get independent confirmation.
--
Michael Ikeda mmi...@erols.com
"Telling a statistician not to use sampling is like telling an
astronomer they can't say there is a moon and stars"
Lynne Billard, past president American Statistical Association
Opus the Penguin
> Back to the Scoobies, where a few things fall into place nicely.
> Buffy's not just uncertain, she's retreated into herself, or
> something. And Spike is around to come up with a deceptively simple
> explanation for why no one seems to notice that there might be some
> kind of connection between Ben and Glory.
Wait a minute. Are you implying.... Oh, never mind.
--
Opus the Penguin
The best darn penguin in all of Usenet
mariposas rand mair fheal greykitten tomys des anges
> Did we ever see that conversation on screen? I don't think so, but
> I could have forgotten it.
we never see xander bowling on screen
Rowan Hawthorn
> A reminder: Please avoid spoilers for later episodes in these review
> threads.
>
>
> BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER
> Season Five, Episode 21: "The Weight Of The World"
> (or "Buffy shrugged")
> Writer: Douglas Petrie
> Director: David Solomon
>
> Buffy's not just uncertain, she's retreated into herself, or
> something. And Spike is around to come up with a deceptively simple
> explanation for why no one seems to notice that there might be some
> kind of connection between Ben and Glory. Some of you who aren't
> first-timers have been playing off that all year, but it is indeed
> quite amusing, the show's best running joke in ages. And then they
> have the sense to end it before it can get run into the ground.
They left that for the fans. :-)
> It's not just the funny parts. That scene as a whole is exquisitely
> constructed. You've got Spike's direct approach towards talking to
> the Slayer, which would be funny enough on its own, and Xander then
> saying that they've already tried that. Heh. (Yes, the real
> punchline comes a few lines later, but the setup is its own reward.)
> You have Xander going nuts on Spike as their frustrations bubble to the
> surface in a believable way, and passions fly high enough that I was
> swept away in that, totally feeling the former's righteous anger.
> Like the characters, I also needed Willow around to remind me that the
> bickering was a waste of time. A spell wasn't really needed to
> separate the guys, but she's tending towards overkill too, I guess.
> And finally, you have the Red Witch keeping her head in a crisis -
> I'm glad someone remembered that she can do that - and becoming the
> group's best hope. I like my Willow-in-charge scenes more
> "Halloween" and less "Earshot." Not having Buffy to default to
> hiding behind tends to bring out the best in her, huh?
>
Yes. Willow's not good in a crisis (her words,) except when it really
is a crisis, then she shines.
> After that, the bulk of the show turns into a search through dreams and
> memories. Mostly dreamlike memories, tied together by ugly-dress-Buffy
> going through her bookshelf. The setup to this is worth a mention too,
> with Wil getting ready to "leave." Oh, almost forgot to mention
> Anya's forced but not too obviously fake "good luck" leading into
> a more sincere repetition. In any case, dream devices have been used
> before, so each time the show has to work a little harder to keep it
> fresh. I think they succeed. I like the quiet go-to-commercial moment
> at the end of act one, and Buffy's calm certainty while smothering
> Dawn is perfect to make the moment work.
Wish I had a buck for every poster who wished she'd done it for real.
(Me, I kinda like Dawn, as annoying as she can be.)
> The other big element that makes it all work is Willow's reactions to
> all this, which I think are spot on. From the urgent confusion
> underneath clever lines like "I think we already deja'd this vu,"
> to the more purely funny parts (deadpanning "you're the First
> original Slayer who tried killing us all in our dreams. How've you
> been?" or echoing Buffy's confusion from "Intervention") to
> ultimately putting together the right thing to say. Have I mentioned
> that I like Willow?
You show remarkably good taste on occasion...
> "This ... is gonna be worth it." "Ow!" Quite the pair, those
> two (Spike and Mr. Harris, for those who don't remember the quote).
You're kidding, right? This is probably in the top five most quoted
scenes from the entire series.
> One thing I'm not so on board with is the ending scene, with Giles
> providing the plot to us in a blob of exposition. Exposition that
> doesn't tell the characters anything they shouldn't have already
> known after "Spiral." The end-of-episode cliffhanger falls a bit
> flat, since the idea of killing Dawn isn't exactly new. I still say
> we kill Ben instead
Me, too. That's probably why *I'm* not some kind of mystical hero (my
pragmatism runs more in line with Malcolm Reynolds'.)
--
Rowan Hawthorn
"Occasionally, I'm callous and strange." - Willow Rosenberg, "Buffy the
Vampire Slayer"
Rowan Hawthorn
> "Arbitrar Of Quality" <tsm...@wildmail.com> wrote in
> news:1153351189....@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
>
>> A reminder: Please avoid spoilers for later episodes in these
>> review threads.
>>
>>
>> BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER
>> Season Five, Episode 21: "The Weight Of The World"
>> (or "Buffy shrugged")
>> Writer: Douglas Petrie
>> Director: David Solomon
>>
>
>
>> The memories have enough interest to hold one's attention,
>> although I imagine how they could have gotten boring for someone
>> who had to relive them over and over.
>
> One minor question related to the following exchange:
>
> YOUNG BUFFY: (giggles) You talk funny.
> WILLOW: Yes ... as you'll tell me again when we're older and in
> chem class.
>
> Willow refers to a conversation she had with Buffy in chem class.
> Did we ever see that conversation on screen? I don't think so, but
> I could have forgotten it.
>
No, but I would have sworn at one point that I saw a scene something
*like* that. Unfortunately, repeated watchings have never revealed it
to me, so I'm now convinced that it was just *so much* the kind of
conversation they would have had that I hallucinated it...
Mike Zeares
Arbitrar Of Quality wrote:
> BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER
> Season Five, Episode 21: "The Weight Of The World"
> (or "Buffy shrugged")
Heh.
>
> Back to the Scoobies, where a few things fall into place nicely.
> Buffy's not just uncertain, she's retreated into herself, or
> something. And Spike is around to come up with a deceptively simple
> explanation for why no one seems to notice that there might be some
> kind of connection between Ben and Glory. Some of you who aren't
> first-timers have been playing off that all year, but it is indeed
> quite amusing, the show's best running joke in ages. And then they
> have the sense to end it before it can get run into the ground. I
> think the gag benefits from having Spike there to be alternately
> amusingly annoyed or just amused ("is everyone here very stoned?").
One of a number of BtVS lines that come in handy in real life. And the
Ben/Glory thing is a good way of spotting fellow Buffy fans. We don't
seem to be able to resist it.
> And finally, you have the Red Witch keeping her head in a crisis -
> I'm glad someone remembered that she can do that - and becoming the
> group's best hope. I like my Willow-in-charge scenes more
> "Halloween" and less "Earshot." Not having Buffy to default to
> hiding behind tends to bring out the best in her, huh?
Aly plays those scenes well. She has this expression that suggests
that she could magically blow your head off, she's just choosing not
to. Yet.
> after-the-fact critiquing, whereas the end result was that once one
> accepts the device, TWOTW is a solidly entertaining episode the likes
> of which the series desperately needed.
I resurrected my Knee-Jerk Review for this one: "Complete waste of
time. Possibly the slowest hour of television I've ever watched. I
think my Give-A-Shitter just broke." I got some agreement at the time.
For years, I've been calling it my Worst Episode Ever. However,
watching it this time around (only the third time I've watched it), I
actually rather liked it. As long as I fast-forwarded through every
moment that Ben and/or Glory (between whom there may be a connection)
were on-screen. I think that's what set me off the first time. I just
find their scenes unwatchably boring. The rest of it is quite good.
The problem with this revised opinion is that now I have to find a new
W.E.E.
-- Mike Zeares
Rowan Hawthorn
V'yy fhozvg "Nf Lbh Jrer" sbe lbhe pbafvqrengvba...
Apteryx
news:1153351189....@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>A reminder: Please avoid spoilers for later episodes in these review
> threads.
>
>
> BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER
> Season Five, Episode 21: "The Weight Of The World"
> (or "Buffy shrugged")
>
> Buffy's not just uncertain, she's retreated into herself, or
> something.
That is a little odd. Given that she's pretty much an action orientated
person, I'd have figured she could have saved her catatonia till after the
world ends, as Willow puts it.
> And Spike is around to come up with a deceptively simple
> explanation for why no one seems to notice that there might be some
> kind of connection between Ben and Glory. Some of you who aren't
> first-timers have been playing off that all year, but it is indeed
> quite amusing, the show's best running joke in ages. And then they
> have the sense to end it before it can get run into the ground.
No, you can safely leave that to us :)
> It's not just the funny parts. That scene as a whole is exquisitely
> constructed. You've got Spike's direct approach towards talking to
> the Slayer, which would be funny enough on its own, and Xander then
> saying that they've already tried that. Heh. (Yes, the real
> punchline comes a few lines later, but the setup is its own reward.)
> You have Xander going nuts on Spike as their frustrations bubble to the
> surface in a believable way, and passions fly high enough that I was
> swept away in that, totally feeling the former's righteous anger.
> Like the characters, I also needed Willow around to remind me that the
> bickering was a waste of time. A spell wasn't really needed to
> separate the guys, but she's tending towards overkill too, I guess.
> And finally, you have the Red Witch keeping her head in a crisis -
> I'm glad someone remembered that she can do that - and becoming the
> group's best hope. I like my Willow-in-charge scenes more
> "Halloween" and less "Earshot." Not having Buffy to default to
> hiding behind tends to bring out the best in her, huh?
If that's her best, well, lets hope she's not in a leadership role too
often. Because in a situation with highly motivated people (and despite
their quarrel, I'd say both Spike and Xander are highly motivated to help
Buffy and Dawn, not to mention save the world) and over time an
authoritarian leadership style can just bleed that motivation away. The gang
aren't working because otherwise Willow will get "cranky" and even putting
that suggestion out there is undermining their true (and totally necessary)
motivation.
> After that, the bulk of the show turns into a search through dreams and
> memories. Mostly dreamlike memories, tied together by ugly-dress-Buffy
> going through her bookshelf. The setup to this is worth a mention too,
> with Wil getting ready to "leave." Oh, almost forgot to mention
> Anya's forced but not too obviously fake "good luck" leading into
> a more sincere repetition. In any case, dream devices have been used
> before, so each time the show has to work a little harder to keep it
> fresh. I think they succeed. I like the quiet go-to-commercial moment
> at the end of act one, and Buffy's calm certainty while smothering
> Dawn is perfect to make the moment work.
This is one of their better ones - even without getting to see Dawn
smothered :)
>
> The other big element that makes it all work is Willow's reactions to
> all this, which I think are spot on. From the urgent confusion
> underneath clever lines like "I think we already deja'd this vu,"
> to the more purely funny parts (deadpanning "you're the First
> original Slayer who tried killing us all in our dreams. How've you
> been?"
That's our Will, always polite (well, except when she's not). Though
technically she's not correct. This is Buffy's memory from Intervention, so
it's actually Buffy's spirit guide taking the form of the First Slayer. The
real First Slayer, as seen in Restless, is not so chatty.
>
> There are other things going on in the show, including some stuff with
> the villain as her control starts to slip a little and the lines
> between the personas start to blur. Pseudo-compassionate Glory is a
> little better than the regular version, and Glory-esque Self-Obsessed
> Ben is a vast improvement. The face flipping back and forth while they
> argue is another silly device that works better than it should. I like
> the way Ben's able to inspire little moments of trust in Dawn,
> despite everything, and then makes it clear over and over where his
> true colors are. I was afraid the show wouldn't remember that,
> although he's been wronged, he's rotten to the core too (first
> established in "Listening To Fear"). Most of the Benjamin story
> works better that way.
Not entirely fair, because what we see here is not entirely Ben, but
something of a merging of Ben and Glory. But granted, even "pure Ben" has
been ruthless in the past, even if not as self-absorbed.
>
> One thing I'm not so on board with is the ending scene, with Giles
> providing the plot to us in a blob of exposition. Exposition that
> doesn't tell the characters anything they shouldn't have already
> known after "Spiral." The end-of-episode cliffhanger falls a bit
> flat, since the idea of killing Dawn isn't exactly new. I still say
> we kill Ben instead; maybe it'd have played better if that weren't
> available as a potential "out." Who can say?
I don't think that's quite right. Giles isn't saying to go out and kill Dawn
now, as the Knights would. He's talking about the what the situation will be
once Glory has operated the Key by shedding Dawn's blood. So he's saying
that once that happens, the only way to close the gates between dimensions
is for the blood to be stopped, and that the only way to do that (at that
point) is to kill Dawn. I don't know why he says that's the only way - maybe
Secret Watcher's Business. If it is was me, I'd have at least tried a
bandage or tourniquet before leaping to the conclusion that Dawn must die.
But I don't take him to be excluding other options (such as killing Ben) to
prevent Glory operating the Key in the first place.
> So...
>
> One-sentence summary: Pretty interesting.
>
> AOQ rating: Good
Good for me too, and a relief to see the season pulling out of the tail spin
it was in after the last two episodes. It's my 76th favourite BtVS episode,
9th best in season 5
--
Apteryx
Eric Hunter
There is the scene in "Bad Girls":
Buffy: It was intense. It was like I just... let go and became this
force. I just didn't care anymore.
Willow: Yeah, I know what that's like.
Buffy: I don't think you can! It's kind of a Slayer thing. I don't even
think I'm explaining it well.
Xander: You're explaining it a lot, though.
Mrs. Taggart hands Xander and Willow their tests. Buffy turns around.
Mrs. Taggart: Alright. You have one period to fill out your test
booklets. Periodic charts are located on the back. (walks toward the
front) You're on the honor system, so remember, no talking.
Buffy turns back to Willow and Xander.
Buffy: You see, the thing was, Faith knew I didn't even wanna go down
there...
Mrs. Taggart: (interrupts) Ahem. Ms. Summers?
Buffy faces the front and gestures that she's buttoning her lips now.
Mrs. Taggart: (to the class) You have one hour.
She gives Buffy another look and then leaves the room. Buffy immediately
turns back to Willow and Xander.
Buffy: Okay, so the best part...
Willow: (interrupts, concerned) Buffy. Test? You know. Remember? The
thing you didn't come over to study for?
Buffy: (seems to get it) Right. Got it.
She turns back to her test, but can't resist, and turns around again.
Buffy: (smiles) Sorry. Okay, so we're down there, in the sewers, and
Faith (Xander's eye twitches) got three of them on her at once...
Xander: Hey! Whoa! Can we resume Buffy's 'Ode to Faith' later, like
when I'm not actively multiple-choicing?
Buffy: (realizes) How come your eye twitches every time I say Faith's
name?
Xander: (twitches his eye) (defensively) What? (chuckles) No, it
doesn't.
Buffy leans in closer to him, her eyes intently watching his face.
Buffy: Faith.
His eye twitches, and he slaps his hand over it.
Xander: Cut it out! We got a test to take, okay? And I'm highly
caffeinated, and I'm trying to concentrate. Some of us actually care
about school. You know.
Buffy looks to Willow, but she's concentrating on her test. Buffy
finally realizes that she's not going to be allowed to continue her
story, and settles down to take her test. She opens the booklet, but is
interrupted, along with the rest of the class, by Faith rapping on the
window pane trying to get Buffy's attention. Faith lifts the sash and
leans in.
Faith: (smiles) Hey, girlfriend. (looks around) Bad time?
She leans over to the next window, wipes the dust from it with her
sleeve, exhales to fog it and uses her index fingers to draw a heart
with a stake through it. She looks at Buffy, smiles and bounces her
eyebrows. Buffy considers for only a moment before deciding to blow off
the test. She slides down from her lab stool and heads for the window.
Willow and Xander are shocked.
Willow: No, sh-she can't!
Faith smiles and leans back in to wait for her partner.
Willow: Y-you can't! Can you?
Buffy ignores her and climbs out of the window. Faith lowers the sash
after Buffy has climbed out. Willow can't believe what just happened.
Horace LaBadie
<mair_fheal-74C69...@sn-ip.vsrv-sjc.supernews.net>,
mariposas rand mair fheal greykitten tomys des anges
<mair_...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > something. And Spike is around to come up with a deceptively simple
> > explanation for why no one seems to notice that there might be some
> > kind of connection between Ben and Glory. Some of you who aren't
>
> are you saying theres a relation between ben and glory?
>
Between Ben, Glory, Dawn, and James Byrke.
"Connections," chapter 2. Wilson observes the shadow of the Ben (Nevis)
on the clouds at dawn and the glory around it.
HWL
Arbitrar Of Quality
> One of my favorite S5 moments. Spike and Xander are sort of the 'Odd
> Couple' of the Buffyverse, aren't they?
That's as good an explanation as any for why their scenes together
click so well. I keep thinking back to S4, once Spike became part of
the main cast, and it seemed the writers tried bouncing him off the
various heroes to work out the dynamics. Spike and Giles always had
entertaining arguments because they were just similar enough to speak
the same language (literally in "An New Man...")... the
each-one-reminds-the-other-of-his-past theory comes into play here.
Whereas Spike and Xander are verbally at each others' throats all the
time too, but it's more like kids letting off steam.
> I find it somewhat amusing that the previous episode is one that I find
> more entertaining than this but I'm just happy that you've finally given
> another episode a "good". I was really starting to get worried.
I'm not keeping track, but this is one of the longer runs, if not the
longest, that the show has gone without a Good or better. 4 in a row
before TWOTW, and 5 out of the last 6 were Decent or Weak for me. So
the episode's a bit of a relief to me too.
I'd been kinder to _Angel_ lately until this Pylea story, though, so
it's not quite as bad a streak if you count the whole 'verse.
-AOQ
Arbitrar Of Quality
> I resurrected my Knee-Jerk Review for this one: "Complete waste of
> time. Possibly the slowest hour of television I've ever watched. I
> think my Give-A-Shitter just broke." I got some agreement at the time.
> For years, I've been calling it my Worst Episode Ever. However,
> watching it this time around (only the third time I've watched it), I
> actually rather liked it. As long as I fast-forwarded through every
> moment that Ben and/or Glory (between whom there may be a connection)
> were on-screen. I think that's what set me off the first time. I just
> find their scenes unwatchably boring. The rest of it is quite good.
[shrug] Ben/Glory hasn't done much for me in general, other than a few
good moments mid-season ("Checkpoint"/BT), so I can't single out this
episode for that; if anything, s/he was marginally more interesting
than usual for me.
> The problem with this revised opinion is that now I have to find a new
> W.E.E.
Well, let us know when you come up with one. I have a few
suggestions...
-AOQ
~kinda excited to watch the series again to see which opinions stay the
same and which don't~
Daniel Damouth
news:MMidnb1c16M...@giganews.com:
>> "This ... is gonna be worth it." "Ow!" Quite the pair, those
>> two (Spike and Mr. Harris, for those who don't remember the quote).
>
> You're kidding, right? This is probably in the top five most quoted
> scenes from the entire series.
Wait a minute. Are you saying Ben has an account at Glory.com?
-DD
Rowan Hawthorn
...probably...?
vague disclaimer
"Arbitrar Of Quality" <tsm...@wildmail.com> wrote:
> I still say
> we kill Ben instead;
How would that help? Glory's the enemy.
(are you keeping track of the number of bites?)
--
Wikipedia: like Usenet, moderated by trolls
EGK
wrote:
>Mike Zeares wrote:
>
>> I resurrected my Knee-Jerk Review for this one: "Complete waste of
>> time. Possibly the slowest hour of television I've ever watched. I
>> think my Give-A-Shitter just broke." I got some agreement at the time.
>> For years, I've been calling it my Worst Episode Ever. However,
>> watching it this time around (only the third time I've watched it), I
>> actually rather liked it. As long as I fast-forwarded through every
>> moment that Ben and/or Glory (between whom there may be a connection)
>> were on-screen. I think that's what set me off the first time. I just
>> find their scenes unwatchably boring. The rest of it is quite good.
>
>[shrug] Ben/Glory hasn't done much for me in general, other than a few
>good moments mid-season ("Checkpoint"/BT), so I can't single out this
>episode for that; if anything, s/he was marginally more interesting
>than usual for me.
The character of Glory seemed very popular on here during season 5 but she
dragged it down for me. It just seemed like every appearance was the same
schtick over and over. I'm not re-watching the series as you do so it's
hard for me to remember particular scenes. I agree with the person who said
recently that the last 4-5 episodes seem to all blend together.
--
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"There would be a lot more civility in this world if people
didn't take that as an invitation to walk all over you"
(Calvin and Hobbes)
Sam
> I was afraid the show wouldn't remember that,
> although he's been wronged, he's rotten to the core too (first
> established in "Listening To Fear"). Most of the Benjamin story
> works better that way.
>
I think it's a bit more complex than that. Ben really isn't that bad a
guy. He just wants to live a normal life. Heck, he even tries to become
a doctor to help people and try to balance out the harm that Glory
does. Even in "Listening to Fear," he doesn't summon the demon out of
some self-serving interest, he does it to try to put Glory's incurably
mad, tormented victims out of their misery.
Ben's a basically nice person. It's just that he's also a coward. He's
not willing to actually put his own life at risk to stop Glory.
But I think there's a difference between being a coward, and being
evil. He's not evil. He's just afraid of dying.
There's even a certain argument to be made for Ben's position. Why is
Dawn's life automatically worth more than Ben's? If one of them has to
die to save the other, why should it automatically be Ben who does the
dying? (Granted, there's also that small bit about activating the Key
ripping the multiverse to shreds -- but I don't think Ben actually
knows about that.)
--Sam
One Bit Shy
news:e9n00v$3su$1...@nntp.aioe.org...
> "Arbitrar Of Quality" <tsm...@wildmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1153351189....@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>> One thing I'm not so on board with is the ending scene, with Giles
>> providing the plot to us in a blob of exposition. Exposition that
>> doesn't tell the characters anything they shouldn't have already
>> known after "Spiral." The end-of-episode cliffhanger falls a bit
>> flat, since the idea of killing Dawn isn't exactly new. I still say
>> we kill Ben instead; maybe it'd have played better if that weren't
>> available as a potential "out." Who can say?
>
> I don't think that's quite right. Giles isn't saying to go out and kill
> Dawn now, as the Knights would. He's talking about the what the situation
> will be once Glory has operated the Key by shedding Dawn's blood. So he's
> saying that once that happens, the only way to close the gates between
> dimensions is for the blood to be stopped, and that the only way to do
> that (at that point) is to kill Dawn. I don't know why he says that's the
> only way - maybe Secret Watcher's Business.
It's his interpretation of the ritual text that he's freshly received -
presumably on scrolls found in the wood box that the demon, Doc, attempted
to burn.
OBS
maxims
Sam wrote:
[of Ben]
> in "Listening to Fear," he doesn't summon the demon out of
> some self-serving interest, he does it to try to put Glory's incurably
> mad, tormented victims out of their misery.
Can you point to any evidence that supports this? As I recall, he
complained to the scabby minion that he'd had to summon the demon in
order "to clean up Glory's mess", rather than complaining that she was
causing her suck-victims unbearable misery . I don't remember him
showing any particular compassion to any of them - and suffocating
under queller demon gobs seems a much nastier way to die than many
other methods available to a doctor. I think he was a profoundly
selfish individual, who thought his own suffering far outweighed anyone
else's, and that his needs were the most important. In a way, in fact,
Glory's selfishness is his own writ very large indeed.
maxims
Sam
maxims wrote:
> Sam wrote:
>
> Can you point to any evidence that supports this? As I recall, he
> complained to the scabby minion that he'd had to summon the demon in
> order "to clean up Glory's mess", rather than complaining that she was
> causing her suck-victims unbearable misery .
Well, it's the only explanation that really makes any sense, since if
he was operating out of self-interest there was no reason for him to do
anything at all. There was no way to connect the victims to him -- in
fact, there was a powerful bit of magic in place to prevent any human
being from ever connecting them to him, so if all he cared about was
his own security he could have just as easily done nothing.
The only reason I've ever been able to think of for him to want to
"clean up Glory's mess" in this case is the simple desire to euthanize
the poor bastards.
I don't remember him
> showing any particular compassion to any of them - and suffocating
> under queller demon gobs seems a much nastier way to die than many
> other methods available to a doctor.
He didn't have access to a lot of the victims, though. They had been
discharged and were out wandering Sunnydale, or being taken care of by
family members, or what have you. The Queller was a simple way to be
sure he could get all of them.
--Sam
One Bit Shy
news:1153351189....@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER
> Season Five, Episode 21: "The Weight Of The World"
> Yeah, way to get AOQ love, start with Glory and her minions. You know,
> I'm glad Glory and her minions never bred with the Initiative
> commandoes, because then they'd create a race of beings capable of
> inducing enough apathy to end civilization. Or to get me to stop
> watching, anyway.
I've always enjoyed Glory - found her to be an interesting well realized
character with fun to watch quirky elements. Just being a god serves a
story function by providing a seemingly insurmountable obstacle to Buffy,
and makes for a little different character type in that her big bad cruelty
is hers by entitlement - being above it all - cheerfully applied in a God
living large kind of way. I really like the device of her being trapped in
a human body - sharing it with a living human. It's interesting in itself
and offers a kind of parallel to Dawn's condition leaving Dawn to wonder if
she naturally belongs with the likes of Glory more than with humans. It
gets more interesting as the divide between Ben and Glory break down,
forcing Glory to cope with things like human guilt that are foreign to her
god way of thinking. (That disturbing merging of selves being a big part of
this episode.)
The madness that surrounds Glory is another interesting (to me) aspect of
the character. I'm not sure if sharing the body caused it in Glory -
maybe - but it certainly feeds that madness more and more as they merge. I
always enjoyed her periodic lapses into crazy talk. More, I liked the way
the atmosphere of madness was insinuated into the season as a whole. I
don't know that it's exactly a theme - perhaps not in a message sense - but
it certainly is an ongoing mood. The victims of Glory's mindsuck (which is
a pretty scary process in itself), Glory herself, Riley going a little nuts,
Joyce going a lot nuts suffering a literal brain cancer that the others only
mimic, and eventually Buffy. (Themes of madness could arguably be applied
further to many season elements from Dracula's mind influence to the lunacy
of the silly knights.)
And I loved just about everything about the scabby minions. They way they
looked and talked and praised Glory. All of it. Also Glory's penchant for
shocking, sometimes extravagant entrances. Smashing in the steel door the
first time we saw her. Appearing in Buffy's living room. The first time we
saw her change from Ben with Dawn sitting right in front of her. Ripping
out the dorm wall. Sitting next to Tara.
Obviously you don't have to like her if you don't want to. But I thought
I'd mention that the opinion isn't universal - some like her a lot - and
that a fair amount of content is built out of her. I think she's pretty
well thought out, both as to character traits and her fit into the
storyline.
> Back to the Scoobies, where a few things fall into place nicely.
> Buffy's not just uncertain, she's retreated into herself, or
> something. And Spike is around to come up with a deceptively simple
> explanation for why no one seems to notice that there might be some
> kind of connection between Ben and Glory. Some of you who aren't
> first-timers have been playing off that all year, but it is indeed
> quite amusing, the show's best running joke in ages. And then they
> have the sense to end it before it can get run into the ground. I
> think the gag benefits from having Spike there to be alternately
> amusingly annoyed or just amused ("is everyone here very stoned?").
It's good Usenet fodder, but nothing beets Spike whacking Xander upside the
head.
> It's not just the funny parts. That scene as a whole is exquisitely
> constructed. You've got Spike's direct approach towards talking to
> the Slayer, which would be funny enough on its own, and Xander then
> saying that they've already tried that. Heh. (Yes, the real
> punchline comes a few lines later, but the setup is its own reward.)
> You have Xander going nuts on Spike as their frustrations bubble to the
> surface in a believable way, and passions fly high enough that I was
> swept away in that, totally feeling the former's righteous anger.
> Like the characters, I also needed Willow around to remind me that the
> bickering was a waste of time. A spell wasn't really needed to
> separate the guys, but she's tending towards overkill too, I guess.
> And finally, you have the Red Witch keeping her head in a crisis -
> I'm glad someone remembered that she can do that - and becoming the
> group's best hope. I like my Willow-in-charge scenes more
> "Halloween" and less "Earshot." Not having Buffy to default to
> hiding behind tends to bring out the best in her, huh?
You note that Willow was waffling pretty badly herself until the boys went
at it and pissed Willow off. That seemed to be what gave Willow the focus
to move into commanding mode. It was useful and effective then - got people
directed - but I'm not sure that it's a style that would play well in the
long run. Without the compelling circumstances to drive it, I think she'd
be Earshot bossy in a flash.
> After that, the bulk of the show turns into a search through dreams and
> memories. Mostly dreamlike memories, tied together by ugly-dress-Buffy
> going through her bookshelf. The setup to this is worth a mention too,
> with Wil getting ready to "leave." Oh, almost forgot to mention
> Anya's forced but not too obviously fake "good luck" leading into
> a more sincere repetition.
It's funny, but even though Anya's first good luck was so forced, I think it
was completely sincere in that it was just Anya's odd interpretation of
Willow's request. I always find it kind of sweet. And I think that Willow,
after moving past the disorientation from Anya's delivery, kind of got that.
I doubt Willow will ever exactly be comfortable with Anya's ways - I don't
see them as best friends - but she does seem more accepting and
understanding of Anya these days. One of those little side things about how
the Scoobies - in spite of Buffy's woes - have done a terrific job this year
of solidifying as a group.
> In any case, dream devices have been used
> before, so each time the show has to work a little harder to keep it
> fresh. I think they succeed. I like the quiet go-to-commercial moment
> at the end of act one, and Buffy's calm certainty while smothering
> Dawn is perfect to make the moment work.
Of the various dream like scenarios the series has used, I think this stands
out for being a lot more comprehensible than the others. But not in a
dumbed down way. It's serious and sophisticated enough. So it's kind of
winning for more of the audience than usual.
> The memories have enough interest to hold one's attention, although I
> imagine how they could have gotten boring for someone who had to relive
> them over and over. I don't recall the show doing a loop to this
> extent before. That kinda explains why the end is so easy too;
> Buffy's head is caught in a cycle, and just needs to be re-routed a
> little to realize that saving the world again might help. And right
> before watching this episode I was wondering to what extent the First
> Slayer story would be remembered, so good to see everything starting to
> fit together. So far the death obsession has been more of a
> distraction than anything resembling useful advice. There's also a
> tie-in to "Fool For Love," as Buffy describes having a moment of
> wanting to give up, in the middle of a routine activity, and it has
> far-reaching effects. The overall feel is that of an episode that's
> at least touching on the year's thematic threads.
But we still don't understand, "Death is your gift." It can't mean what
Buffy took it to mean in her catatonic state, because the spirit guide said
love would take her to her gift.
> Having the two Buffys do the last conversation "should" feel like
> the kind of pointless effect to which the show doesn't normally sink,
> except that I kinda liked it. I guess in some sense when I think
> about it, the solution is too easy, the problem itself a little too
> much of an artificial construct. People have crises of faith, but they
> only shut down this way and need to have their minds infiltrated when
> the writers want to make an episode out of it. But that's all
> after-the-fact critiquing, whereas the end result was that once one
> accepts the device, TWOTW is a solidly entertaining episode the likes
> of which the series desperately needed.
Don't think of it as a crisis in faith. It's much more like a nervous
breakdown. Pressure induced.
> One thing I'm not so on board with is the ending scene, with Giles
> providing the plot to us in a blob of exposition. Exposition that
> doesn't tell the characters anything they shouldn't have already
> known after "Spiral." The end-of-episode cliffhanger falls a bit
> flat, since the idea of killing Dawn isn't exactly new. I still say
> we kill Ben instead; maybe it'd have played better if that weren't
> available as a potential "out." Who can say?
No, I think you misunderstand. This is new information. It's not about
generally denying the key to Glory by killing Dawn. Rather it's
specifically about how the ritual works and what would have to be done to
close the gates after The Key has opened them. It presumably came from
scrolls in the box Spike rescued from the fire.
I'm sure they'd prefer things never get to that point. But if it does, what
are you going to do?
> So...
>
> One-sentence summary: Pretty interesting.
>
> AOQ rating: Good
Although I like what is done with Glory generally in this episode, I think
the big scene in the alley does run on too long. And though some helpful
setup occurs here, I really wish a little bit more had been done to better
support the next episode.
None the less it it's a good, lively bit of entertainment. I would rate it
Good as well.
OBS
One Bit Shy
news:1153419436....@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
Ben had earlier indicated that he was upset with the hospital's policy of
sending the mental patients home.
BUFFY: And, uh, yeah, the crazy man was a little ... you know, crazy, but
it's okay. Are they really gonna send him home?
BEN: Don't get me started. The mental ward's booked beyond capacity,
literally nowhere to put them, so the ones with families, they're letting
'em go home. Like his family's gonna be able to take care of him. He has to
have someone to watch him 24-7!
I don't know that that's a particularly good excuse for summoning the
Queller, but it does indicate at least some motivation besides self
interest.
OBS
maxims
Sam wrote:
>
> Well, it's the only explanation that really makes any sense, since if
> he was operating out of self-interest there was no reason for him to do
> anything at all. There was no way to connect the victims to him -- in
> fact, there was a powerful bit of magic in place to prevent any human
> being from ever connecting them to him
I don't think he wanted to get rid of them because he thought he might
get *blamed* for their condition (although as a quibble the magic stops
people from connecting him with Glory, not for mistakenly blaming him
for the fact that every town he works at suffers an epidemic of mental
breakdowns). But as a doctor, it's surely dreadfully inconvenient for
him if every place he ever works gets overrrun with crazies? Sunnydale
General was clearly running out of beds, the hospital staff were
presumably having to put in massive amounts of overtime, Questions were
Being Asked about what had caused this sudden outbreak, and in the
middle of it is poor old Ben just wanting to get on with his life in
peace and quiet. The solution? Kill all the crazies! Summon a demon
that will get rid of all the guys currently clogging up the wards, and
maybe even get some of the newer victims before they make it as far as
the hospital, and bingo, problem solved. At least temporarily. That's
why he thought of the crazies as a "mess", because he saw them purely
and simply as a problem that was messing up *his* life. No
compassionate euthanasia there.
Sam
One Bit Shy wrote:
>
> I don't know that that's a particularly good excuse for summoning the
> Queller, but it does indicate at least some motivation besides self
> interest.
>
Keep in mind that we're not just talking about mental illness. This is
a condition which, we're told, "doesn't kill you. What it does is make
you feel like you're in a noisy little dark room... naked and
ashamed... and there are things in the dark that need to hurt you
because you're bad. Little pinching things that go in your ears ind
crawl on the inside of your skull. And you know that if the noise and
the crawling would stop that you could remember how to get out. But you
never, ever will."
Ben almost certainly knows that, and knows that there's nothing he can
do to help them. Summoning the Queller to put them out of their misery
sure seems like the merciful thing to do to me.
--Sam
Don Sample
"Sam" <hyperevol...@gmail.com> wrote:
But he didn't take any precautions to make sure his "mercy" didn't
affect anyone other than Glory's victims. It very nearly killed Joyce
too.
--
Quando omni flunkus moritati
Visit the Buffy Body Count at <http://homepage.mac.com/dsample/>
James Craine
When I read that my first thought was of my favorite TV
historian. But then I figured, 'nah, this must be a
reference to something I missed'. Then you surprised me.
Mel
Mike Zeares wrote:
V abzvangr "Nf Lbh Jrer."
Mel
peachy ashie passion
And why would that be bad?
Rowan Hawthorn
Already nominated that one. Wanna second it? Seconded? Good. Motion
carried...
Elisi
> >> The problem with this revised opinion is that now I have to find a new
> >> W.E.E.
> >> -- Mike Zeares
> >>
> >
> >
> > V abzvangr "Nf Lbh Jrer."
>
> Already nominated that one. Wanna second it? Seconded? Good. Motion
> carried...
Oh can I join in? Can we have a vote? If there was one episode I could
obliterate...
Elisi
> There are other things going on in the show, including some stuff with
> the villain as her control starts to slip a little and the lines
> between the personas start to blur. Pseudo-compassionate Glory is a
> little better than the regular version, and Glory-esque Self-Obsessed
> Ben is a vast improvement. The face flipping back and forth while they
> argue is another silly device that works better than it should. I like
> the way Ben's able to inspire little moments of trust in Dawn,
> despite everything, and then makes it clear over and over where his
> true colors are. I was afraid the show wouldn't remember that,
> although he's been wronged, he's rotten to the core too (first
> established in "Listening To Fear"). Most of the Benjamin story
> works better that way.
I never saw him as rotten to the core... he did become a doctor after
all, so he could help people. And I think he really wanted to help
Dawn. Just like I think he chatted up Buffy in IWMTLY in the hope of
getting an ally against Glory (Glory even says that she thinks he's
plotting against her...). But when push comes to shove he fails and
decides to save himself at the expense of Dawn - and the world. He
could have been a hero, but he became a coward instead.
The end-of-episode cliffhanger falls a bit
> flat, since the idea of killing Dawn isn't exactly new. I still say
> we kill Ben instead; maybe it'd have played better if that weren't
> available as a potential "out." Who can say?
Flat? Really? Of course lots of people have been trying to kill Dawn
through the whole season, but what Giles is saying here is new.
Remember Buffy went catatonic just thinking she had killed her sister -
now Giles is saying that she might have to actually kill her to save
the world. That is new and that is the opposite of what Buffy has been
focussed on all season. She's been protecting Dawn to the exclusion of
everything else. And now...
Arbitrar Of Quality
Elisi wrote:
> Arbitrar Of Quality wrote:
> > I was afraid the show wouldn't remember that,
> > although he's been wronged, he's rotten to the core too (first
> > established in "Listening To Fear"). Most of the Benjamin story
> > works better that way.
>
> I never saw him as rotten to the core... he did become a doctor after
> all, so he could help people. And I think he really wanted to help
> Dawn. Just like I think he chatted up Buffy in IWMTLY in the hope of
> getting an ally against Glory (Glory even says that she thinks he's
> plotting against her...).
Hmm. That puts a potentially worthwhile spin on the flirting from
IWMTLY. Will have to think about that. Hopfully for Ben's sake he
wouldn't mention being directly responsible for the monster that tried
to brutally kill her mom, though...
-AOQ
chr...@removethistoreply.gwu.edu
> A reminder: Please avoid spoilers for later episodes in these review
> threads.
>
>
> Season Five, Episode 21: "The Weight Of The World"
> (or "Buffy shrugged")
> Director: David Solomon
I quite like this episode, but chaos at work has cut into my usenet time,
and the heatwave has sapped what little energy I had, so I won't write
much about it. (So you folks lucked out today.)
I'd like to second OBS's (?) defense of Glory. She's probably third on my
list of top Big Bads. But her and Ben's scenes wound up being some of my
least favorite parts of WotW, because I liked the rest even more: the
opening scene, the mindwalk, the trip to Doc's office, etc.
> You have Xander going nuts on Spike as their frustrations bubble to the
> surface in a believable way, and passions fly high enough that I was
> swept away in that, totally feeling the former's righteous anger.
Defending his plan to shake and slap Buffy out of her catatonia, Spike
says that he bets "Buffy likes it rough." Is he basing that on the way
she's always been rough with *him*, or just projecting his wishes on her,
or what?
> much of an artificial construct. People have crises of faith, but they
> only shut down this way and need to have their minds infiltrated when
> the writers want to make an episode out of it.
Buffy goes back to her crisis of faith in the dreamwalk, but it wasn't the
direct *cause* of her catatonia. The accumulated stress, failures and
loss of the last few months, topped by the shock and guilt of losing Dawn,
did that.
> I think this is Hank's first appearance in almost three years. I was
> sorta expecting that he'd loom larger over the series based on the
> way things were going back in late S1/early S2. As it is, his most
> consistent contribution to BTVS has been the hole left by his absence.
To put it another way, he was essentially written out of Buffy's life
because there was no place for him in the show as it developed.
> One thing I'm not so on board with is the ending scene, with Giles
> providing the plot to us in a blob of exposition. Exposition that
> doesn't tell the characters anything they shouldn't have already
> known after "Spiral."
The exposition didn't bother me. (The scene wasn't *that* long, anyway.)
And we did learn some new specifics about how the ritual works, with the
whole blood thing. What did bother me a little was that Giles recovered
so easily from his supposedly grievous wound.
> The end-of-episode cliffhanger falls a bit
> flat, since the idea of killing Dawn isn't exactly new. I still say
> we kill Ben instead; maybe it'd have played better if that weren't
> available as a potential "out." Who can say?
They should consider killing Ben before the ritual starts, true. But
according to Giles, if the ritual is started, then it will not stop until
her blood stops flowing. At that point, it doesn't even matter what
happens to Glory-Ben.
> AOQ rating: Good
Good.
--Chris
______________________________________________________________________
chrisg [at] gwu.edu On the Internet, nobody knows I'm a dog.
Elisi
> Defending his plan to shake and slap Buffy out of her catatonia, Spike
> says that he bets "Buffy likes it rough." Is he basing that on the way
> she's always been rough with *him*, or just projecting his wishes on her,
> or what?
Bit of both? From 'Fool For Love', re. Spike killing his first Slayer:
BUFFY (disgusted): You got off on it.
SPIKE: Well, yeah. I suppose you're telling me you don't?
*cough*BuffyVsDracula*cough*
> The exposition didn't bother me. (The scene wasn't *that* long, anyway.)
> And we did learn some new specifics about how the ritual works, with the
> whole blood thing. What did bother me a little was that Giles recovered
> so easily from his supposedly grievous wound.
Well they took him to hospital - I guess they had good drugs?
Arbitrar Of Quality
> chr...@removethistoreply.gwu.edu wrote:
> > What did bother me a little was that Giles recovered
> > so easily from his supposedly grievous wound.
>
> Well they took him to hospital - I guess they had good drugs?
I hear the morphine is bloody lovely. But your standard grievous wound
does indeed take some time to heal, no matter how good your hospital
is.
-AOQ
Mel
Rowan Hawthorn wrote:
Indeed. Plus, there's always "Dead Man's Party"
Mel
ducking and running from AOQ :-)
Mel
Elisi wrote:
Rkprcg sbe gur ynfg fprar orgjrra Ohssl naq Fcvxr. Xrrc gung, ohg puhpx
gur erfg.
Mel
One Bit Shy
news:1153471283....@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com...
I really don't have an episode I'd like to get rid of. The worst still does
something for me. At the moment I'm sitting on Bad Eggs as the bottom. But
that'll be reconsidered as we go through the next two seasons. I think
there's a pretty good chance of it getting unseated.
OBS
Arbitrar Of Quality
You kids today. People don't appreciate the good stuff like they used
to.
-AOQ
George W Harris
:
:
Naq, bs pbhefr, gur yvar...
"Ovgpu."
:
:
:Mel
--
Firefly Fan Since September 20th, 2002 - Browncoat Since Birth
George W. Harris For actual email address, replace each 'u' with an 'i'
Elisi
> I really don't have an episode I'd like to get rid of. The worst still does
> something for me. At the moment I'm sitting on Bad Eggs as the bottom. But
> that'll be reconsidered as we go through the next two seasons. I think
> there's a pretty good chance of it getting unseated.
OK, that's true for me too - I can find something worthwhile in pretty
much everything, and I'd much rather look at what good stuff there is,
rather than the bad. Anyway, I guess we'll discuss everything as it
comes up! :)
Rowan Hawthorn
Agreed. "Dead Man's Party" isn't my favorite episode or anything, but
overall I find a lot to like about it.