What IS spike's accent?
nice...@my-deja.com
acceptable imitation of a british accent, was not cockney at all
(someone had referred to it as cockney).
So what IS Spike's accent, anyway?
niceness
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Another Duck
nice...@my-deja.com wrote:
> So what IS Spike's accent, anyway?
I'm putting a wild guess at a London accent. I think I remember an old
movie where they had that accent.
--
/Andreas Andersson a.k.a. Another Duck
Gazza D
If you wanna put it somewhere, it's a bit London, but not cockney
--
Gazza D
British and proud of it
nice...@my-deja.com wrote in message <8u6jgi$c15$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>...
>I saw a recent post that mentioned that Spike's accent, although an
>acceptable imitation of a british accent, was not cockney at all
>(someone had referred to it as cockney).
>
>So what IS Spike's accent, anyway?
>
James Martin
accent.
Thoughts anyone?
James Martin
UK
"Another Duck" <anna...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:3A06DB85...@yahoo.com...
>
>
> nice...@my-deja.com wrote:
>
> > So what IS Spike's accent, anyway?
>
Elder_X
anything. In real life JM is imitating a British tongue. But one could
argue that "Spike's" accent is a mixture of everything that he has
experienced in his 120 year life (Don't really know how old Spike is). I
mean you can listen to Angel and while he's from Ireland you can't say that
how he speaks now represents a modern day Irish man's accent. I hope you
guys get what I'm trying to say.
kaffeineaddict
someting slightly Northern, and with some slurs into Californian (has anyone
noticed the way he says 'Can't'?- that's the thing that annoys me most.
British people, particularly from the regions he's attempting, use a long
'ar' sound. He just does the short 'a'.) I think there are a couple more
things, but that's what I notice. Oh, also, he said 'ass', when it's common
knowledge we brits say 'arse' (seriously). I know I'm being fussy, but I'm
surprised ASH hasn't pointed those things out. I would.
They're repeating some old eps on Sky, though, and I did notice a drastic
improvement when he came back for S4. Juliet Landau's accent is appalling,
his was just as bad, but is much better now. He's obviously been spending
way too much time with the English members of the cast (or having elocution
lessons). Oh, and I thought that Alexis Denisof's accent was fairly
dreadful, as well. Hopefully it gets better too. For the record, I think the
only English people ever on Buffy were ASH, Serena Scott Thomas (The evil
watcher), and...I forget.
Phina Oruche (Olivia)'s accent is very good - it's actually a dialect, i
think. Is she actually English?
nice...@my-deja.com wrote in message <8u6jgi$c15$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>...
>I saw a recent post that mentioned that Spike's accent, although an
>acceptable imitation of a british accent, was not cockney at all
>(someone had referred to it as cockney).
>
>So what IS Spike's accent, anyway?
>
Gary Wigington Jr
Elder_X <eld...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:8u6s39$ak6$1...@news.hawaii.edu...
100 percent. It doesn't even take that long for an accent to change. It
usually happens within just a few years of living somewhere, of course to a
lesser degree.
EMINEM
wouldn't he support a local team (like Arsenal) instead of some whack
northern team. Oh I forgot, 99% of their supporters live outta Manchester!
Anyway I'm from London and I say ass, and c-ar-n't, the right way.
<nice...@my-deja.com> wrote in message news:8u6jgi$c15$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
Chandy19
>He once said he love Manchester United (Arsenal rule). If he was from London
>wouldn't he support a local team (like Arsenal) instead of some whack
>northern team.
If I wanted to start an argument, I'd remind you that Spurs are the greatest,
but I won't.
Macaulay Connor: It can't be anything like love, can it?
Tracey Lord: No, no, it can't be.
Macaulay Connor: Would it be inconvenient?
Tracey Lord: Terribly.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
------
Don Sample
<SNOOPDO...@HOTMAIL.COM> wrote:
> He once said he love Manchester United (Arsenal rule). If he was from London
> wouldn't he support a local team (like Arsenal) instead of some whack
> northern team. Oh I forgot, 99% of their supporters live outta Manchester!
> Anyway I'm from London and I say ass, and c-ar-n't, the right way.
Depends on his reasons for supporting them.
Spike likely cheers for them because he likes a nice fight. Cheer for
the visiting team and then beat up on all the local fans who attack
you.
--
Don Sample, dsa...@synapse.net
Visit the Buffy Body Count at http://www.synapse.net/~dsample/BBC
Quando omni flunkus moritati
Bob Moore
>So what IS Spike's accent, anyway?
Southern England, tending towards London. Spike's not a cockney, but
he is a teeny bit of a geezer.
It's a damn fine imitation, JM should be proud. It's not often his
phrasing is out, though the vocab has struck me as a little odd at
times - not that the actor can be blamed for that.
Cindy Tittle Moore
Bob Moore <bo...@mvps.org> wrote:
>On Mon, 06 Nov 2000 15:42:12 GMT, nice...@my-deja.com wrote:
>
>>So what IS Spike's accent, anyway?
>
>Southern England, tending towards London. Spike's not a cockney, but
>he is a teeny bit of a geezer.
In this context, what's a geezer?
--Cindy
thedeadparrot
<kath...@newpound.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
><SNIP> Oh, also, he said 'ass', when it's common
>knowledge we brits say 'arse' (seriously). I know I'm being fussy, but I'm
>surprised ASH hasn't pointed those things out. I would.
>
I seem to remember reading somewhere somewhere that Mr Marsters was
going to say "arse" but Mr Head told him that we brits actually say
"ass", "like the rest of the world". Slightly annoyed me, that did.
><SNIP>
-----------------------------------
www.saifai.co.uk - For Buffy, McBeal, and Python
www.crosbyheritage.fsbusiness.co.uk - Colin Crosby Heritage Tours
-----------------------------------
James Martin
one advantage, he is British. Unless anyone can tell me anything to the
contrary?
James Martin
P.S. Something else that annoys me. 101 Dalmatians they get good British
actors set in England, with the proper police cars and British supporting
cast. They then make them say things like "pants" instead of trousers. Well
I think that is pants! O well at least the new Harry Potter movie will
hopefully not have to bend over backwards for US expressions as it's author
J. K. Rowling has explicitly argued against that.
P.P.S. Nothing against US expressions I am half American and frequently have
to translate for both sides of my family! I just think that both cultures
should be respected. I think people in the US must get pretty annoyed at the
US stereotypes the UK film industry rolls out.
"Chandy19" <chan...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20001106152729...@ng-bj1.aol.com...
> >
> >He once said he love Manchester United (Arsenal rule). If he was from
London
> >wouldn't he support a local team (like Arsenal) instead of some whack
> >northern team.
>
James Martin
Harry Enfield impression! Anyway........
A geezer could be someone you wouldn't trust, maybe a criminal.
What does it mean? Anyone!?!?!?!?
James Martin
"Cindy Tittle Moore" <tit...@fnord.io.com> wrote in message
news:ueFN5.59250$Ly1.6...@news5.giganews.com...
Cindy Tittle Moore
James Martin <no...@nonesoidontgetspammed.none> wrote:
>A little bit here, a little bit wo, I'm a geezer aren't I! I can't do that
>Harry Enfield impression! Anyway........
>A geezer could be someone you wouldn't trust, maybe a criminal.
>What does it mean? Anyone!?!?!?!?
Huh. Geezer here would be an old man. Sounds like for you a somewhat
shady character.
--Cindy
Eric F.
> Anyway I'm from London and I say ass, and c-ar-n't, the right way.
c-ar-n't?
I guess I need to watch more tv, or something, cuz I've never heard Brits
pronounce "can't" like the above & I'm an Amateur Accent-Admirer...
Later,
Eric F., Buffy Fan
----
"I hate it when they drown me" - Buffy ("Bad Girls")
Ian Shuttleworth
wrote:
> one could argue that "Spike's" accent is a mixture of everything that he
> has experienced in his 120 year life
One *could*, but one would effectively be retconning what are simply the
results of actors not having a natural ear for, and not at first having
been trained in, the accents in question.
Spike's accent is, I think, intended to be all-purpose south-east England;
as has been said, it's sort of north London with some tendencies towards
what's now called "estuary English" - the part-Cockney twang heard along
the north coast of the Thames estuary. (The press over here have
occasionally poked fun at our beloved T. Blair for "estuarialising" his
accent now and again.) As far as I can remember, it's only been on one
occasion that Spike was referred to as a Cockney onscreen, and that was
Cordy being insulting.
In his earlier appearances, though, it's noticeable that for some unknown
reason James Marsters inserted, seemingly at random, a lot of flat
northern-English vowels; perhaps he thought he was just adding some
individuality, but the result was to make Spike's accent in some ways even
more jarring than Dru's in the early days. However, he's come on
tremendously on all fronts except, as someone else has noted, that long
"a" sound.
It must also be said that fully as bad as Juliet Landau's "aowww, it's a
jolly 'ollydie wiv My-ree" are David Boreanaz's half-cocked Oirishisms in
flashback. I'm told that his accent has way improved in episodes I've yet
to see (stuck as I am over here halfway through the first season of
"Angel"), possibly as a result of time spent around Glenn Quinn; indeed,
I've even heard it argued that that might have been one reason why Quinn
was cast in the first place. But, on every early occasion, he makes the
mistake all too common when attempting Irish accents of overplaying the
cadence patterns of the speech and neglecting the actual pronunciation.
--
Ian S.
Another Duck
Bob Moore wrote:
> It's a damn fine imitation, JM should be proud. It's not often his
> phrasing is out, though the vocab has struck me as a little odd at
> times - not that the actor can be blamed for that.
For living so long, it's only natural that he uses some odd expressions.
And it's not uncommon that the dialect of a person changes between who
he talks to, or that it sometimes changes, temporary. I know I don't
speak with a definite dialect, whether I speak Swedish, English or
German (although in the last case I mostly stutter).
Another Duck
Gary Wigington Jr wrote:
> 100 percent. It doesn't even take that long for an accent to change. It
> usually happens within just a few years of living somewhere, of course to a
> lesser degree.
Not saying you're not including this, but your dialect doesn't have to change.
Or, as in my case, I started talking *more* typically to where I come from.
BiPolarBear
Gary Wigington Jr <np...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:mADN5.3805$pj3....@news1.atl...
>
> Elder_X <eld...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:8u6s39$ak6$1...@news.hawaii.edu...
> > I don't think you can classify what Spike's accent is because it isn't
of
> > anything. In real life JM is imitating a British tongue. But one could
> > argue that "Spike's" accent is a mixture of everything that he has
> > experienced in his 120 year life (Don't really know how old Spike is).
I
> > mean you can listen to Angel and while he's from Ireland you can't say
> that
> > how he speaks now represents a modern day Irish man's accent. I hope
you
> > guys get what I'm trying to say.
> >
> >
>
> 100 percent. It doesn't even take that long for an accent to change. It
> usually happens within just a few years of living somewhere, of course to
a
> lesser degree.
>
>
It happens with varying degrees and speeds for different people in my
observation. My friend Declan moved from Dublin to the States when he was
24 and within a year his accent was almost totally American. He only
betrays his native dialect when saying words like "cancer" and "garage." On
the other hand, a next-door neighbor of mine moved from Ireland to the US
when she was twelve, and now 40 years later she still has a pronounced Irish
accent.
-BiPolarBear
Eric Adams
news:8u70ia$pr0$1...@newsg2.svr.pol.co.uk...
> It's kind of Northern London mixed in with South-East Giles style, maybe
> someting slightly Northern, and with some slurs into Californian (has
anyone
> noticed the way he says 'Can't'?- that's the thing that annoys me most.
> British people, particularly from the regions he's attempting, use a long
> 'ar' sound. He just does the short 'a'.) I think there are a couple more
common
> knowledge we brits say 'arse' (seriously). I know I'm being fussy, but I'm
> surprised ASH hasn't pointed those things out. I would.
Yes, that intensely annoys me too. What's worse is that JM is meant to like
receiving fan-mail and hasn't twigged from ANY of it yet that ASH has been
lying to him... :)
> They're repeating some old eps on Sky, though, and I did notice a drastic
> improvement when he came back for S4. Juliet Landau's accent is appalling,
> his was just as bad, but is much better now.
<SNIP>
Completely disagree with you there. I've known several people of the female
persuasion who spoke with exactly that accent. I even used to think she WAS
English until I later found out otherwise.
And yes, I'm English/British.
- Eric
SFC member #239.
SFC Guardian of Drusilla's fangs.
www.geocities.com/swoop300/SFC.html
Eric Adams
A 'geezer' here in the UK is a guy (no female word equivalent) who's a bit
dodgy, can get things done and who everybody likes to know as a friend.
As in: "See that bloke over there? go over there; he'll get you sorted -
he's a geezer he is!"
Only in South-East England though. I don't think you'd hear Geordies, the
Scots or the Welsh (God help us) using the same phrasology... ;)
Ian Shuttleworth
no...@nonesoidontgetspammed.none (James Martin) wrote:
> at least the new Harry Potter movie will hopefully not have to bend over
> backwards for US expressions as it's author J. K. Rowling has explicitly
> argued against that.
This would be the J.K. Rowling who was seemingly quite content to have
"Harry Potter And The Philosopher's Stone" published in the U.S. as
"...Sorcerer's Stone", yes? (Presumably in the belief that the mere
mention of such a word in a title would be kiss of death sales-wise among
the Merkins...)
--
Ian S.
Bob Moore
Moore) wrote:
>In this context, what's a geezer?
A wide boy, specifically a shady (London) small-time criminal
character. Geezers spontaneously self-destruct if they attempt to
travel north of Watford, with the exception (of course) of Michael
Caine.
See most of the characters in Lock, Stock and Two Smoking Barrels ?
These are geezers.
This is recent usage. Twenty years ago, a geezer was simply an old
man.
Bob Moore
wrote:
>For living so long, it's only natural that he uses some odd expressions.
want to know a secret ?
<whisper>
it's all ....... pretend
</whisper>
Don Sample
Shuttleworth <shut...@cix.deletethis.co.uk> wrote:
She likely didn't have much say in the matter. It was her first book,
and had zero clout with the publisher.
kaffeineaddict
messed with the actual accent. To me, it sounded really quite ridiculous,
particularly in her earlier episodes.
Eric Adams wrote in message <8u8fsb$o73$1...@uranium.btinternet.com>...
kaffeineaddict
speaking in a British accent, it's nearly impossible to use a short vowell
in the middle of a word- that's an American thing. It's 'carn't.'
Eric F. wrote in message <3A07ABB0...@aracnet.com>...
R Shaw
<kath...@newpound.freeserve.co.uk> writes:
>
>I promise you, that's how we say it. It's just the dialect; if you're
>speaking in a British accent, it's nearly impossible to use a short vowell
>in the middle of a word- that's an American thing. It's 'carn't.'
Except Americans wouldn't write the English pronunciation that
way. They insist on rolling every last r.
The US sound is cant, to rhyme with plant.
The UK sound (apart from certain dialects) is cahnt
which rhymes with daunt, as in dauntless.
>
>Eric F. wrote in message <3A07ABB0...@aracnet.com>...
>>EMINEM wrote:
>>
>>> Anyway I'm from London and I say ass, and c-ar-n't, the right way.
>>
>>c-ar-n't?
>>
>>I guess I need to watch more tv, or something, cuz I've never heard Brits
>>pronounce "can't" like the above & I'm an Amateur Accent-Admirer...
---
Matter is fundamentally lazy:- It always takes the path of least effort
Matter is fundamentally stupid:- It tries every other path first.
That is the heart of physics - The rest is details.
Robert
Cindy Tittle Moore
R Shaw <robx...@aol.com> wrote:
>The US sound is cant, to rhyme with plant.
>The UK sound (apart from certain dialects) is cahnt
>which rhymes with daunt, as in dauntless.
And how to they pronounce plant in the UK? Plant or Plahnt? Plaunt?
--Cindy
Eric F.
> I promise you, that's how we say it. It's just the dialect; if you're
> speaking in a British accent, it's nearly impossible to use a short vowell
> in the middle of a word- that's an American thing. It's 'carn't.'
OK, you're the expert.
I'll take your word for it.
Is this like the word "drama"?
When Brits say it, it kinda sounds like there's an extra "r" in there, which
makes it sound like "drar-ma".
I'll do my homework now & watch 'BBC America' on the telly. :)
Accents RULE!
Later,
Eric F., Buffy Fan & Amateur Accent-Admirer
----
Giles: There's too many of them -- people. And they all seem to want things.
Xander: I hear ya. Stay British. You'll be okay. ("No Place Like Home")
Ian Shuttleworth
(Don Sample) wrote:
> She likely didn't have much say in the matter. It was her first book,
> and had zero clout with the publisher.
Fair point. I'd been assuming, with no actual evidence, that U.S.
publication occurred only by the time there was a certain momentum in the
U.K.
--
Ian S.
Ian Shuttleworth
kath...@newpound.freeserve.co.uk (kaffeineaddict) wrote:
> if you're speaking in a British accent, it's nearly impossible to use a
> short vowell in the middle of a word
For "British accent" read "southern English accent".
--
Ian S.
Eric Adams
> Hmm, maybe it was just that she was making it sound insane, and it kind of
> messed with the actual accent. To me, it sounded really quite ridiculous,
> particularly in her earlier episodes.
That is part of what I've found contributes to the confusion of Dru's accent
for some. There needs to be a dreamy aspect with Drusilla that somehow turns
more mature and adult-like when her demon is roused. Juliet Landau did a
great job on that, given the 'unbalanced' circumstances. Some people I've
spoken to about the accent sometimes forget that and go "Oh yeah," when I'd
have thought it was obvious. :)
Coughlan #1
> It must also be said that fully as bad as Juliet Landau's "aowww,
it's a
> jolly 'ollydie wiv My-ree" are David Boreanaz's half-cocked
Oirishisms in
> flashback. I'm told that his accent has way improved in episodes
I've yet
> to see (stuck as I am over here halfway through the first season of
> "Angel"), possibly as a result of time spent around Glenn Quinn;
indeed,
> I've even heard it argued that that might have been one reason why
Quinn
> was cast in the first place. But, on every early occasion, he makes
the
> mistake all too common when attempting Irish accents of overplaying
the
> cadence patterns of the speech and neglecting the actual
pronunciation.
>
I could be wrong, but I'm pretty certain Quinn's doing a Dublin accent
(think of your average Irish boy band), and that's what DB's copied on
occasion. So much so, I fully expect him to come back with a "Not a
bother," when someone asks if he's OK.
What the voice coach should've given him is a few videos of Father Ted,
than at least we'd get a West coast-sounding "Aw, feck," when there's
trouble...
Coughlan #1
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
R Shaw
(Cindy Tittle Moore) writes:
>R Shaw <robx...@aol.com> wrote:
>>The US sound is cant, to rhyme with plant.
>>The UK sound (apart from certain dialects) is cahnt
>>which rhymes with daunt, as in dauntless.
>
>And how to they pronounce plant in the UK? Plant or Plahnt? Plaunt?
>
With a short a, as in cat, tap, pan, nab and back, or
more technically its a front half open vowel
That particular vowel sound is recognisably the same
(though not precisely) in all the major English accent.
The other a sound is a fully open centre back vowel
which isn't used in US rhotic accents. If your native accent
doesn't use it phonemicly you will have difficulty
recognising it as a distinct sound.
Bob Moore
wrote:
>Is this like the word "drama"?
Yes.
Note that there are significant differences in the vowel sounds
between the South of England (where I spent ten years) and the North
of England. I firmly believe that the letter U doesn't exist South of
a line between Bristol and Watford. If I say "bus" in London they look
at me funny... down there it's bass. Or baaars if yer posh.
When I first came back up North for Christmas after a year down South
as a young lad, I'd habituated to the vowel sounds, and my young (8)
niece leaned over to my mother and said in a stage whisper
"Eeee, gran, dunt 'e tork posh ?"
Bob Moore
>The UK sound (apart from certain dialects) is cahnt
>which rhymes with daunt, as in dauntless.
???
Not where I come from, matey (Yorkshire). Anybody saying caunt around
'ere is asking for a bunch of fives.
Eric F.
> If I say "bus" in London they look at me funny... down there it's bass. Or
> baaars if yer posh.
What's "posh"?
The only posh I've heard of is a Spice Girl... ;)
> When I first came back up North for Christmas after a year down South
> as a young lad, I'd habituated to the vowel sounds, and my young (8)
> niece leaned over to my mother and said in a stage whisper
> "Eeee, gran, dunt 'e tork posh ?"
I actually understood that. Took awhile, though. :)
Later,
Eric F., Buffy Fan
----
"I just have all this involuntary empathy for Dawn. 'Cuz she's, you
know, a big spaz." - Willow ("No Place Like Home")
Ian Shuttleworth
#1) wrote:
> I'm pretty certain Quinn's doing a Dublin accent
Oh, yes. Time was when I'd even hazard a guess as to the general part of
the city, but alas, no longer.
> What the voice coach should've given him is a few videos of Father Ted,
> than at least we'd get a West coast-sounding "Aw, feck," when there's
> trouble...
<chuckle> If the back story could have been torqued to accommodate it,
as a mischievous Ulsterman myself I'd love to hear him trying Ballymena
Scots, hey!
--
Ian S.
Ian Shuttleworth
wrote:
> When Brits say it, it kinda sounds like there's an extra "r" in there,
> which makes it sound like "drar-ma".
What's interesting is when non-southern Englanders over-compensate the
other way; it principally happens with my Northern Irish compatriots and
some Scots, but because we're used to hearing that sort of vowel from
the "proper" English, we sometimes assume that there actually *is* an R in
there. A lot of Northern Irish people used to pronounce the name of '80s
cocktail-soul chanteuse Sade as "Shar-day", and still call the Windy City
"Chicargo".
--
Ian S.
Ian Shuttleworth
(Bob Moore) wrote:
Yes, I think there's a lot of assumption going on hereabouts (largely
by some Brits!) that south-east of England pronunciation *is* "British",
or even "English" pronunciation as a whole.
Americans are often surprised that accents in these islands can vary as
much as they do within such a relatively short distance. I used, within
my home town of Belfast, to be able to place accents sometimes to within
half a mile or so.
--
Ian S.
R Shaw
<bo...@mvps.org> writes:
Well, I'm also from Yorkshire (Sheffield) and that's how we pronounce
it near here.
Of course, in the smaller towns and the villages people do still speak
broad Yorkshire, and York has its own peculiarities but I can assure
everyone that what I said is true in much of England.
Coughlan #1
shut...@cix.deletethis.co.uk wrote:
> In article <8ubfp0$d1p$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, cough...@my-deja.com
(Coughlan
> #1) wrote:
>
> > I'm pretty certain Quinn's doing a Dublin accent
>
> Oh, yes. Time was when I'd even hazard a guess as to the general
> part of
> the city, but alas, no longer.
Er, the Commitments side? Can't remember which one that is.
> > What the voice coach should've given him is a few videos of Father
Ted,
> > than at least we'd get a West coast-sounding "Aw, feck," when
there's
> > trouble...
(Y'know, since I wrote that I've been having flashes of Father Jack as
the Master and Dougal as the Anointed One...)
> <chuckle> If the back story could have been torqued to accommodate
> it,
> as a mischievous Ulsterman myself I'd love to hear him trying
> Ballymena Scots, hey!
>
Ulster? One (well, several - hadn't heard of Ballymena Scots before)
of the most pleasing accents in the world. Thank God DB didn't get to
mangle it. But at least he's managed to pick the right island since,
even if it is the opposite side of the country...
Now if the scriptwriters could just grasp the difference between "Why
don't you sit down?" and "Sit _down_, why don't ye?" I'd be one happy
bunny.
Keith
>>Is this like the word "drama"?
>
>Yes.
>
>Note that there are significant differences in the vowel sounds
>between the South of England (where I spent ten years) and the North
>of England. I firmly believe that the letter U doesn't exist South of
>at me funny... down there it's bass. Or baaars if yer posh.
If yer posh you wouldn't be on a baars, you'd be in one's car, surely?
Of course in Birmingham, bus sounds more like buzz ...
--
Keith
Elisabeth Bayer
> In article <MMFN5.53359$mv2.1...@news2-win.server.ntlworld.com>,
> no...@nonesoidontgetspammed.none (James Martin) wrote:
>
> > at least the new Harry Potter movie will hopefully not have to bend over
> > backwards for US expressions as it's author J. K. Rowling has explicitly
> > argued against that.
>
> This would be the J.K. Rowling who was seemingly quite content to have
> "Harry Potter And The Philosopher's Stone" published in the U.S. as
> "...Sorcerer's Stone", yes? (Presumably in the belief that the mere
> mention of such a word in a title would be kiss of death sales-wise among
> the Merkins...)
>
American in the American version of the Harry Potter books. Lifts are
elevators, boots are trunks, and tea is afternoon snack. It's not just
Harry Potter, either. British written novels have been translated into
American for a long time, so says my mother the librarian. Watch out, she
knows Dewey decimal AND Library of Congress.
Elisabeth
Bob Moore
>Well, I'm also from Yorkshire (Sheffield) and that's how we pronounce
>it near here.
Ah well, now that explains it. We're only too well aware that they're
all a bunch of pervies in sheffy :-)
Ian Shuttleworth
(Coughlan #1) wrote:
> hadn't heard of Ballymena Scots before
It's a very localised dialect, somewhere between broad Ulster and
Mummerset-yokel, with a tendency to tack "hey" on the end. Not
to be confused with "Ulster Scots", which is a full dialect,
albeit a largely fictional one created in order to give the Prods
something to annoy the Gaelic-speaking republican Assembly
members with :-)
But I Digress...
Ian S.
(back in Belfast for a few days)
Ian Shuttleworth
eb...@barnard.edu (Elisabeth Bayer) wrote:
> British written novels have been translated into American for a
> long time
Ouch. Mind you, I was at a Martin Amis reading a few years ago
when he patronisingly insisted on translating the Americanisms as
he read...
Ian S.
Jessica S Raine
: In article <8u9v0p$395$1...@news7.svr.pol.co.uk>, "kaffeineaddict"
: <kath...@newpound.freeserve.co.uk> writes:
: >
: >I promise you, that's how we say it. It's just the dialect; if you're
: >speaking in a British accent, it's nearly impossible to use a short vowell
: >in the middle of a word- that's an American thing. It's 'carn't.'
: Except Americans wouldn't write the English pronunciation that
: way. They insist on rolling every last r.
Okay, I'm gonna get geeky here, but...Rolling an r happens in the
front of your mouth. Like if you're speaking Spanish and you say rr. It
has to do with the front of your tongue contacting your front teeth, I
think, but I'm not sure because I can't do it.
The stereotypical American r is produced at the back of your mouth--not
guttural like a French r, either. It makes a harsh nasty noise which is
one of the things that people make fun of about American accents. Singers
and other trained speaker-persons are taught to avoid using the American
r *and* the guttural French r: either one closes up the back of your
throat, inhibiting sound production. This is why one of the caricatures of
an Affected (Shakespearean?) Actor is that said actor rolls their r's on
every single word. It's pretty much a sign of an amateur to not be able to
switch back and forth between appropriate r's, at least according to my
singing teacher. :)
Another interesting thing to note: When I saw JM on _The List_, I
was surprised to realize that as Spike, he not only puts on a fake accent
but he lowers the pitch of his voice. His natural speaking voice is more
tenor than baritone. This could have something to do with the fact that he
was smiling a lot and talking quite fast, two things Spike generally does
not do; one of the tricks for lowering your voice is to speak slowly, and
it would be out of character for Spike to smile as much as JM did on _The
List_ anyways. :)
--Jessica (why, in America they haven't used it for *years*)
--
Jessica Raine | day...@world.std.com
Oh--as usual--dear.
R Shaw
<bo...@mvps.org> writes:
We're not the ones who stuff ferrets down our trousers,
except on stag nights, of course. :-)
There are dozens of distinct accents in the UK, none of
which are exactly like Spikes. Half of them would leave
Buffy needing subtitles, which is why we the only
Enlgish vampires we are likely to see will all come
from the soft south.
Eric F.
> Ouch. Mind you, I was at a Martin Amis reading a few years ago
> when he patronisingly insisted on translating the Americanisms as
> he read...
Was he in the UK when he read...?
Later,
Eric F., Buffy Fan
----
Buffy: So a mythic triumph over a completely indifferent foe?
Giles: Well, I'm not dead or unconscious, so I say bravo for me.
("The Replacement")
dvd...@webtv.net
unprofessional when acting. Because I can't roll r's anyways.
We don't really need to here in the U.S;, anyways. okay, I'm not an
actor, but if I was and if I had the proper training, I still wouldn't
be able to roll r's. I tred before. I can't.
_!!O*_ The MarchHare
living in Newmarket for 7 1/2 years I CAN tell you that more then a
fairshare of Brits DO SAY "ass" and not "arse".
The fact is that while alot of Americans can effect a fair British
accent (John Hillerman for one...Higgins from Magnum PI) ....British
actors, Bob Hoskins an exception, are pretty bloody awful at effecting
an American accent. British television is chock full of
"er""er""er""er""er""er""er""er""er""er"ing "American" characters.
You know what? The best accents come from the Dutch...followed by
Aussie actors.
Cindy Tittle Moore
Wouldn't that be "I tied before. I can't." ??
(ducking)
--Cindy
Jessica S Raine
: sorry, Jessica. But I have to disagree that not rolling r's is
You've got so many double negatives in that first sentence that I
am now very confused, and not entirely sure you quoted me correctly. Here
are the things I said in my post:
1. Rolling r's happens at the front of your mouth. I think. Not
everyone can do it. (If, like me, you cannot, there are ways you can fake
it.)
2. I didn't say that it was or was not unprofessional to roll
your r's when you are acting. I said that my voice teacher thinks that it
is unprofessional to roll your r's *all the time*. She was talking about
people who are playing roles which call for, say, a US Midwestern
pronunciation, and who insert the rolled r even though people in the
Midwest don't talk like that. She was saying that it is a sign of an
amateur actor to use a rolled r all the time onstage, without considering
whether it's appropriate to the role or not. (This came up because I was
rehearsing an aria from _The Mighty Casey_, an operetta about baseball
which takes place in the Midwest, and she was having to train me out of
the pseudo-rolled r she had taught me for Italian art songs.)
3. Whether you are in the US or not has nothing to do with whether
you need a rolled r for an onstage role. If you are trying to reproduce
certain accents, or if you are singing in most of the Romance languages
(not sure about Portuguese), a rolled r is appropriate whether you are
speaking/singing in the US or anywhere else.
4. The Shakespeare thing: It used to be very fashionable for all
Shakespearean actors to speak in this really affected accent that included
rolled r on every single word containing an r. However, that was a *long*
time ago. People do that sometimes now if they want to do a stereotypical
Classical Actor--like Jon Lovitz's thing on Saturday Night Live some years
back. "Acting! Genius! Thank you!"
Hope this helps.
--Jessica
Jessica S Raine
: The fact is that while alot of Americans can effect a fair British
: accent (John Hillerman for one...Higgins from Magnum PI) ....British
: actors, Bob Hoskins an exception, are pretty bloody awful at effecting
: an American accent. British television is chock full of
: "er""er""er""er""er""er""er""er""er""er"ing "American" characters.
Kenneth Branagh does a pretty good one in _Dead Again_. Christian
Bale's was vile in _Newsies_,but fine in _Little Women_ and _American Psycho_.
The absolute miserableness of the American accent used by the actress who
played Peri on _Dr. Who_ (I forget her name--Nicola something?) was
legendary. Someone finally explained to me that she was doing, not a real
American accent, but an American accent that would be expected by, and
understood by, British persons. Can anyone confirm this?
Ian Shuttleworth
(Eric F.) wrote:
> Was he in the UK when he read...?
Yes, 1997 Belfast Festival.
Ian S.
Bob Moore
>There are dozens of distinct accents in the UK, none of
>which are exactly like Spikes. Half of them would leave
>Buffy needing subtitles
Mmm, yes. A onetime conversation with a geordie colleague:
colleague: "s'tha gannin oor t'pub ?"
me : "sorry ?"
Translations available on request :-). I lied about not understanding
him, but couldn't resist the opportunity - his accent was soooo thick.
I wonder how most Americans would fare faced with Rab Nesbitt ?
Daniel C. Jensen
Bob Moore wrote:
Some of us have to listen to Monty Python for ten minutes or more just to
get into the rhythm of the speech. I know I lose my ear for English
accents when I have been surrounded by midamerican flat for a while
without relief.
Dan
Elisabeth Bayer
> : accent (John Hillerman for one...Higgins from Magnum PI) ....British
> : actors, Bob Hoskins an exception, are pretty bloody awful at effecting
> : an American accent. British television is chock full of
> : "er""er""er""er""er""er""er""er""er""er"ing "American" characters.
>
> Bale's was vile in _Newsies_,but fine in _Little Women_ and _American Psycho_.
> The absolute miserableness of the American accent used by the actress who
> played Peri on _Dr. Who_ (I forget her name--Nicola something?) was
> legendary. Someone finally explained to me that she was doing, not a real
> American accent, but an American accent that would be expected by, and
> understood by, British persons. Can anyone confirm this?
>
> --Jessica
Frankly, everyone's accent was awful in Newsies, even the Americans. But
since that movie requires a tremendous suspension of disbelief, and I only
watch because I love watching beautiful dancers, it doesn't bother me so
much.
Mike Zeares
>On Sat, 11 Nov 2000, Jessica S Raine wrote:
>> Kenneth Branagh does a pretty good one in _Dead Again_. Christian
>>Bale's was vile in _Newsies_,but fine in _Little Women_ and _American Psycho_.
Kate Winslet did a very good job with the upper-class Philidelphia accent in
"Titanic." Speaking of Philly, the actress who played Cole's mother in "The
Sixth Sense," who is Australian, nailed the South Philly accent.
>> The absolute miserableness of the American accent used by the actress who
>> played Peri on _Dr. Who_ (I forget her name--Nicola something?) was
>> legendary. Someone finally explained to me that she was doing, not a real
>> American accent, but an American accent that would be expected by, and
>> understood by, British persons. Can anyone confirm this?
I thought the actress was American. I remember hearing that she had to be sent
back to the States periodically to reacquire her American accent. At least she
wasn't trying to do Southern. Most *Americans* get those accents wrong (note
plural).
-- Mike Zeares
Marysia
thedea...@saifai.fsbusiness.co.uk (thedeadparrot) wrote:
>On Mon, 6 Nov 2000 19:25:18 -0000, "kaffeineaddict"
><kath...@newpound.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
>
>><SNIP> Oh, also, he said 'ass', when it's common
>>knowledge we brits say 'arse' (seriously). I know I'm being fussy, but I'm
>>surprised ASH hasn't pointed those things out. I would.
>>
>I seem to remember reading somewhere somewhere that Mr Marsters was
>going to say "arse" but Mr Head told him that we brits actually say
>"ass", "like the rest of the world". Slightly annoyed me, that did.
Ass is used in Britain. There are a zillion dialects in the UK some
more likely to use arse and some to use ass.
"don't be such a silly ass" is a term you'd come across often in the
middle classes in the early 20th century. Arse is more working class
and northern.
--
Marysia in California, www.marysia.com - remove the "spanner" to email
"For justice and the safety of... puppies and... Christmas, right?" - Spike
"I learned, uhm... men are evil? Oh, wait... I knew that. I learned that LA
is full of self-serving phonies. No... had that one down, too. Uh...
sex is bad?" "We all knew that." - Cordelia and Angel
Marysia
<kath...@newpound.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
>'ar' sound. He just does the short 'a'.) I think there are a couple more
>things, but that's what I notice. Oh, also, he said 'ass', when it's common
>knowledge we brits say 'arse' (seriously). I know I'm being fussy, but I'm
>surprised ASH hasn't pointed those things out. I would.
I use both ass and arse just from traveling back and forth to the US
and watching American tv. I also often use american terms like pants
for trousers and chips for crisps when talking to Americans as it
saves time and bother. Spike's been in the US way longer than I have.
Marysia
>In article <8u9v0p$395$1...@news7.svr.pol.co.uk>, "kaffeineaddict"
><kath...@newpound.freeserve.co.uk> writes:
>
>>
>>I promise you, that's how we say it. It's just the dialect; if you're
>>speaking in a British accent, it's nearly impossible to use a short vowell
>>in the middle of a word- that's an American thing. It's 'carn't.'
>
>Except Americans wouldn't write the English pronunciation that
>way. They insist on rolling every last r.
>
>The US sound is cant, to rhyme with plant.
>The UK sound (apart from certain dialects) is cahnt
>which rhymes with daunt, as in dauntless.
It amazes me that even Brits fall into the trap of classing British
(or English as I presume you actually mean) as one accent. I presume
it's a symptom of most of the population living in and around London.
If you remove the word UK and replace with England I'll forgive you
but I assure you no-one in Scotland rhymes can't with daunt except
when they're faking a poncy English accent :)
>>Eric F. wrote in message <3A07ABB0...@aracnet.com>...
>>>EMINEM wrote:
>>>
>>>> Anyway I'm from London and I say ass, and c-ar-n't, the right way.
>>>
>>>c-ar-n't?
>>>
>>>I guess I need to watch more tv, or something, cuz I've never heard Brits
>>>pronounce "can't" like the above & I'm an Amateur Accent-Admirer...
Marysia
<no...@nonesoidontgetspammed.none> wrote:
>P.S. Something else that annoys me. 101 Dalmatians they get good British
>actors set in England, with the proper police cars and British supporting
>cast. They then make them say things like "pants" instead of trousers. Well
>I think that is pants! O well at least the new Harry Potter movie will
>hopefully not have to bend over backwards for US expressions as it's author
>J. K. Rowling has explicitly argued against that.
>P.P.S. Nothing against US expressions I am half American and frequently have
>to translate for both sides of my family! I just think that both cultures
>should be respected. I think people in the US must get pretty annoyed at the
>US stereotypes the UK film industry rolls out.
This sounds like an excuse to trot out my current pet USvUK peeve...
Last night I saw a trailer for the US version of Queer as Folk on
Showtime. Did they mention that it was flat remake of an original
British show? Did they fuck, took all the credit for themselves,
mentioned only the American directors, producers and writers. Not a
word to the fact that it was written in Britain. Bastards. Burbling on
about how they were breaking new ground, they only remade it so they
could tone it down I'm betting. Otherwise why not show the original,
it was perfectly well made and acted.
Rassum-frassum.
Marysia
wrote:
>I could be wrong, but I'm pretty certain Quinn's doing a Dublin accent
>(think of your average Irish boy band), and that's what DB's copied on
>occasion. So much so, I fully expect him to come back with a "Not a
>bother," when someone asks if he's OK.
>What the voice coach should've given him is a few videos of Father Ted,
>than at least we'd get a West coast-sounding "Aw, feck," when there's
>trouble...
But given how much accents change unless you've heard a two hundred
year old Irishman talk lately you can't really fault Angel's accent as
we are comparing it to current Irish accents. Likewise Dru and Spike
to an extent, though they're not as old as Angel.
Marysia
>On 07 Nov 2000 23:19:54 GMT, robx...@aol.com (R Shaw) wrote:
>
>>The UK sound (apart from certain dialects) is cahnt
>>which rhymes with daunt, as in dauntless.
>
>???
>
>Not where I come from, matey (Yorkshire). Anybody saying caunt around
>'ere is asking for a bunch of fives.
rotfl, bloody Southerners
MJoann
Coughlan #1 wrote:
> I could be wrong, but I'm pretty certain Quinn's doing a Dublin accent
> (think of your average Irish boy band),
You are wrong.
He is not "doing" any accent, he is Irish and that is his natural
speaking voice. If you went to hear GQ doing an accent, check him out on
Rosanne to hear his attempts at sounding American.
Ian Shuttleworth
mar...@wyattworld.spannercom (Marysia) wrote:
> you can't really fault Angel's accent as we are comparing it to current
> Irish accents.
I think that's taking charity to desperate extremes :-)
> Likewise Dru and Spike to an extent, though they're not as old as Angel.
Actually, in this case, one *can* specifically fault; we do know that
"ass" has only begun to supplant "arse" in English in recent years, and we
do know - or at least, phonologists inform us and we have no reason to
doubt them - that even a century or two ago south-eastern English had no
sign of the occasionally intrusive strong "R" which leaks in from
Marsters' accent.
Bottom line is, it puts less of a strain on things to admit that actors'
accents are imperfect than to construct spiralling edifices of speculation
about accents over centuries just to excuse the odd vocalic slip.
I mean, I've just seen a stage production in Belfast in which the young
lead actress (a southern Irishwoman) put on a truly *appalling* Ulster
accent - ah, but she was actually playing a Peruvian (in Peru), so who's
to say that a Peruvian speaking Peruvian-Spanish with a Northern Irish
accent wouldn't sound like that? But that's not particularly *likely* to
be the explanation, is it? :-)
--
Ian S.
Ian Shuttleworth
mar...@wyattworld.spannercom (Marysia) wrote:
> "don't be such a silly ass" is a term you'd come across often in the
> middle classes in the early 20th century.
Yes - and you'd come across it because it was a euphemism, rationalised by
reference to the alleged stupidity of the donkeyoid creature; they'd
never have dreamt of using either form to mean "butt". Spike doesn't
strike one as the kind likely to use bourgeois-polite forms from several
decades after his own time, and to use them in a sense and context quite
separate from the one in question, does he?
--
Ian S.
Ian Shuttleworth
mar...@wyattworld.spannercom (Marysia) wrote:
> If you remove the word UK and replace with England I'll forgive you
I won't, and I'm not even English! If you replace with "England, below a
line from the Solent to the Wash", you're *beginning* to get close :-)
--
Ian S.
Coughlan #1
mjo...@megsinet.net wrote:
>
>
> Coughlan #1 wrote:
> > I could be wrong, but I'm pretty certain Quinn's doing a Dublin
accent
> > (think of your average Irish boy band),
>
> You are wrong.
> He is not "doing" any accent, he is Irish and that is his natural
> speaking voice.
Even when he gets a tad American? Golly, but I'm impressed with
Dubliners.
Coughlan #1
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Coughlan #1
Marysia <mar...@wyattworld.spannercom> wrote:
> On Wed, 08 Nov 2000 12:09:07 GMT, Coughlan #1 <cough...@my-deja.com>
>
> >I could be wrong, but I'm pretty certain Quinn's doing a Dublin
accent
on
> >occasion. So much so, I fully expect him to come back with a "Not a
> >bother," when someone asks if he's OK.
> >What the voice coach should've given him is a few videos of Father
Ted,
> >than at least we'd get a West coast-sounding "Aw, feck," when there's
> >trouble...
>
> But given how much accents change unless you've heard a two hundred
> we are comparing it to current Irish accents. Likewise Dru and Spike
> to an extent, though they're not as old as Angel.
>
It wouldn't have had to have been a Galway accent to keep me happy; a
decent present-day generic Irish one would've done. Galway would just
have been nice, seeing as how DB managed to pick up that bit of Dublin
and do it better than Angel's own local accent.
Dru's and Spike's accents don't bother me at all. But Angel's was
truly awful. And no, I haven't heard any 200 year old Irishmen speak
lately, but they'd probably have a broader Galway accent than a
recording I heard of my Grandad years ago - the family had to translate
it for me, much as I have to translate for them sometimes now. Had
DB's accent been really genuine, it would have been incomprehensible to
today's audience, like many others of the time.
Bob Moore
<mar...@wyattworld.spannercom> wrote:
>Showtime. Did they mention that it was flat remake of an original
>British show? Did they fuck, took all the credit for themselves,
Rather like them "capturing the enigma machine". Made my blood boil
that did. I'm _damned_ if I'll see that film....
Mark Brown
news:g67P5.4511$KJ2.1...@news2.giganews.com...*SNIP*
> > I tred before. I can't.
Just walk away.
Mark
"Stomped."
Mark Brown
news:1277-3A0...@storefull-143.iap.bryant.webtv.net...
*SNIP*
> British
> actors, Bob Hoskins an exception, are pretty bloody awful at effecting
> an American accent. British television is chock full of
> "er""er""er""er""er""er""er""er""er""er"ing "American" characters.
Y'mean like Spike trying his "surfer dude" accent?
> You know what? The best accents come from the Dutch...followed by
> Aussie actors.
"'Course I don't speak English, I'm a bloody Australian!" --Lightning Jack
Mark
"Naw, amma friend'uh Zandurs. . . Oh, bugger it. Yeah, I'm your man."
James Martin
Anyway the Queer as Folk series on Channel 4 was one of the best shows on
television. It look at homosexuality for men, which hadn't really been done
in detail before.
James Martin
"Marysia" <mar...@wyattworld.spannercom> wrote in message
news:skqu0t89mu5mgbau3...@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 6 Nov 2000 21:54:51 -0000, "James Martin"
> <no...@nonesoidontgetspammed.none> wrote:
>
> >P.S. Something else that annoys me. 101 Dalmatians they get good British
> >actors set in England, with the proper police cars and British supporting
> >cast. They then make them say things like "pants" instead of trousers.
Well
> >I think that is pants! O well at least the new Harry Potter movie will
> >hopefully not have to bend over backwards for US expressions as it's
author
> >J. K. Rowling has explicitly argued against that.
> >P.P.S. Nothing against US expressions I am half American and frequently
have
> >to translate for both sides of my family! I just think that both cultures
> >should be respected. I think people in the US must get pretty annoyed at
the
> >US stereotypes the UK film industry rolls out.
>
> This sounds like an excuse to trot out my current pet USvUK peeve...
>
> Last night I saw a trailer for the US version of Queer as Folk on
> Showtime. Did they mention that it was flat remake of an original
> British show? Did they fuck, took all the credit for themselves,
> mentioned only the American directors, producers and writers. Not a
> word to the fact that it was written in Britain. Bastards. Burbling on
> about how they were breaking new ground, they only remade it so they
> could tone it down I'm betting. Otherwise why not show the original,
> it was perfectly well made and acted.
>
> Rassum-frassum.
>
Marysia
>On Mon, 13 Nov 2000 08:44:44 GMT, Marysia
><mar...@wyattworld.spannercom> wrote:
>
>>Showtime. Did they mention that it was flat remake of an original
>>British show? Did they fuck, took all the credit for themselves,
>
>Rather like them "capturing the enigma machine". Made my blood boil
>that did. I'm _damned_ if I'll see that film....
I read a lovely fanfic where Spike went out and killed every member of
the cast and crew of U-571, apparantly Anya was traumatised over the
loss of Jon Bon Jovi.
Marysia
<no...@nonesoidontgetspammed.none> wrote:
>That is a crying shame they re-made it, did you live in England?
>Anyway the Queer as Folk series on Channel 4 was one of the best shows on
>television. It look at homosexuality for men, which hadn't really been done
>in detail before.
Scotland, and I _loved_ Queer as Folk. If ever a show did not require
a remake it was that one, pure perfection. Especially the bedroom
scenes... yum.
>"Marysia" <mar...@wyattworld.spannercom> wrote in message
>> This sounds like an excuse to trot out my current pet USvUK peeve...
>> Last night I saw a trailer for the US version of Queer as Folk on
>> Showtime. Did they mention that it was flat remake of an original
>> British show? Did they fuck, took all the credit for themselves,
>> mentioned only the American directors, producers and writers. Not a
>> word to the fact that it was written in Britain. Bastards. Burbling on
>> about how they were breaking new ground, they only remade it so they
>> could tone it down I'm betting. Otherwise why not show the original,
>> it was perfectly well made and acted.
The Silver-Flag Boy
shut...@cix.deletethis.co.uk wrote:
> It must also be said that fully as bad as Juliet Landau's "aowww,
it's a
> jolly 'ollydie wiv My-ree" are David Boreanaz's half-cocked
Oirishisms in
> flashback.
Surely to be really authentic, he should be speaking in Gaelic.
--
Alex Macfie (The Silver-Flag Boy) al...@flagboy.demon.co.uk
--------------------------------------------------------------
Leigh Gardner
: > It must also be said that fully as bad as Juliet Landau's "aowww,
: it's a
: > jolly 'ollydie wiv My-ree" are David Boreanaz's half-cocked
: Oirishisms in
: > flashback.
: Surely to be really authentic, he should be speaking in Gaelic.
depends- where's he supposed to be from in Ireland? By the time Angel was
vamped, the Ascendancy (i.e. British rule) affected much of Ireland's
eastern coast- starting around Dublin.
All the Irish speakers were pushed out to the rocky, un-usable land to the
west, or "beyond the Pale". this became the Gaeltacht, or where Irish
Gaelic was/is spoken.
today there are about 30,000 native Irish speakers, and they all live way
out in the western part of Ireland.
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
Leigh M. Gardner, Secondary Ed, Grad School of Education at Penn
http://www.stwing.upenn.edu/~lgardner
learn it. live it. love it. http://www.toreadors.com/gothfash
The Silver-Flag Boy
lgar...@force.stwing.upenn.edu (Leigh Gardner) wrote:
> The Silver-Flag Boy (walko...@my-deja.com) wrote:
>
>
> : Surely to be really authentic, he should be speaking in Gaelic.
>
> depends- where's he supposed to be from in Ireland?
Galway.
> By the time Angel was
> vamped, the Ascendancy (i.e. British rule) affected much of Ireland's
> eastern coast- starting around Dublin.
> All the Irish speakers were pushed out to the rocky, un-usable land
to the
> west, or "beyond the Pale". this became the Gaeltacht, or where
Irish
> Gaelic was/is spoken.
> today there are about 30,000 native Irish speakers, and they all live
way
> out in the western part of Ireland.
Ireland was mostly Gaelic speaking until the mid 19th century The real
(almost) death to the Irish language came then, and was encouraged by
the Irish people themselves.
Mark Brown
news:8uup5f$8g0$2...@netnews.upenn.edu...
*SNIP*
> All the Irish speakers were pushed out to the rocky, un-usable land to the
> west, or "beyond the Pale". this became the Gaeltacht, or where Irish
> Gaelic was/is spoken.
> today there are about 30,000 native Irish speakers, and they all live way
> out in the western part of Ireland.
I'm taking a course in Irish right now, and isn't there a small Gaeltacht on
the northern end of Ireland? As in, just west of Ulster?
Mark
"Really should be paying more attention in class."
The Silver-Flag Boy
Marysia <mar...@wyattworld.spannercom> wrote:
> I use both ass and arse just from traveling back and forth to the US
> and watching American tv. I also often use american terms like pants
> for trousers and chips for crisps when talking to Americans as it
> saves time and bother. Spike's been in the US way longer than I have.
>
I'd love to use the word "fag" in the British sense of "cigarette" when
talking to a Yank and wait for the reaction :) ... "Look at that guy
over there with a fag in his mouth."
Justina Lee
And what's with you adding that extra syllable in "aluminum"?
=)
But you're right, it's just easier to go with the local flow
between the US/UK. The problem is when you do it a lot and
you're sitting in a restaurant thinking you have it down when
the waitress asks, "Do you want chips or fries with that?"
and your whole brain freezes with confusion.
Or you forget which country uses "pants" as trousers and you're
going on and on about your pants when you realize that the
whole time your audience thinks you're talking about your
*underwear*.
And don't even get me STARTED on baked goods, especially
pastries.
Justina
Eric F.
> I'd love to use the word "fag" in the British sense of "cigarette" when
> talking to a Yank and wait for the reaction :) ... "Look at that guy
> over there with a fag in his mouth."
Well, the dictionary definition of a faggot IS a bundle of sticks... ;)
Later,
Eric F., Buffy Fan
----
"Didn't suck" - Buffy ("Bad Girls")
The Silver-Flag Boy
"Eric F." <er...@aracnet.com> wrote:
>
> Well, the dictionary definition of a faggot IS a bundle of sticks...
;)
>
Over here, a faggot is a kind of meatball with onions, herbs and spices
--
Alex Macfie (The Silver-Flag Boy) al...@flagboy.demon.co.uk
--------------------------------------------------------------
Will Tingle
>> I'd love to use the word "fag" in the British sense of "cigarette" when
>> talking to a Yank and wait for the reaction :) ... "Look at that guy
>> over there with a fag in his mouth."
>
(please note: I am not a nazi bastard the above line was a JOKE,
intended to put the use of the word faggot - DO NOT FLAME ME!)
isn't a faggot also a kind of meatball?
--
Will Tingle
--
Remove YOUR.PANTS to reply
Chris Jordan
<mark....@primus.ca> writes
"Just West of Ulster" is rather inhospitable a place for any community
to flourish, given that it's a particularly cold corner of the North
Atlantic.
I'll assume you meant just West of Northern Ireland, ie County Donegal,
which is a constiuent part of the province of Ulster. (The three
counties of Ulster inside the borders of the Irish Republic being
Donegal, Monagahan and Cavan).
I believe some Irish ("gaelic", whatever) is spoken in some areas of
this region. Its certainly true that you will find Irish more commonly
spoken in the West and North-West of the Island.
As somebody mentioned earlier in the thread the provinces of Connacht
and Munster were the areas that native Irish speakers were "encouraged"
to migrate to at the time of the Irish plantation.
I'm from Lisburn, Co. Antrim, where any "native tongue" extends only to
the point in each sentence where we add the F-word and how many new ways
we can come up with saying "Shut the F*ck up, Donaldson, ye tube!"
But, hey, that's just me.
--
Chris Jordan
"And when it rains here, it rains so hard.
But never hard enough to wash away the sorry.
I'd trade my love today for a greater love tomorrow."
Marysia
Lee) wrote:
>But you're right, it's just easier to go with the local flow
>between the US/UK. The problem is when you do it a lot and
>you're sitting in a restaurant thinking you have it down when
>the waitress asks, "Do you want chips or fries with that?"
>and your whole brain freezes with confusion.
I accidentally ordered tortilla chips and salsa the other night as my
brain spazzed out and thought chips-fries.
>And don't even get me STARTED on baked goods, especially
>pastries.
Ooh, let's argue about pies!
Karya
>
>What's "posh"?
>
>The only posh I've heard of is a Spice Girl... ;)
>
Oh... Oh... I know this one.
Posh or P.O.S.H means upper-class and very wealthy, it comes from when
Brits used to periodically travel to India by boat. The wealthy people used
to insist on having Port side cabins on the journey out and Starboard ones
coming back as they were the most pleasant and avoided the heat. So their
luggage had Port Out Starboard Home on it, or P.O.S.H. for short.
Karya, not just a pretty face (but a history geek too)
P.S. Sorry about the huge delay as this thread seems to be dead by now, but
I've been busy orgying etc... very boring.
Will Tingle
>Posh or P.O.S.H means upper-class and very wealthy, it comes from when
>Brits used to periodically travel to India by boat. The wealthy people used
>to insist on having Port side cabins on the journey out and Starboard ones
>coming back as they were the most pleasant and avoided the heat. So their
>luggage had Port Out Starboard Home on it, or P.O.S.H. for short.
>
>Karya, not just a pretty face (but a history geek too)
Ohhh very cleaver. I had no idea where the word "posh" came from!
Will Tingle
following:
>Karya <st...@no.thing> 's post included the following:
>>Posh or P.O.S.H means upper-class and very wealthy, it comes from when
>>Brits used to periodically travel to India by boat. The wealthy people used
>>to insist on having Port side cabins on the journey out and Starboard ones
>>coming back as they were the most pleasant and avoided the heat. So their
>>luggage had Port Out Starboard Home on it, or P.O.S.H. for short.
>>
>>Karya, not just a pretty face (but a history geek too)
>
>Ohhh very cleaver. I had no idea where the word "posh" came from!
>
>
was not the intention - I love little bits of useless knowledge!
- dammit that sounded sarcastic too!
- look genuinely I liked that factoid!
Karya
<kx0MpSAX...@jtingle.demon.co.uk>:
>Will Tingle <Will_...@YOUR.PANTSBigfoot.com> 's post included the
>following:
>>
>>Ohhh very cleaver. I had no idea where the word "posh" came from!
>>
>>
>now that I read that back it sounds terribly sarcastic, sorry as this
>was not the intention - I love little bits of useless knowledge!
>
>- dammit that sounded sarcastic too!
>
>- look genuinely I liked that factoid!
>
<giggles and takes a bow>
It didn't sound sarcastic at all, don't worry about it. I store up these
useless bits and pieces myself to irritate people at bad parties.
Karya, really pleased somebody else is awake, honest.
Brett Paul Dunbar
<st...@no.thing> writes
>er...@aracnet.com (Eric F.) wrote in <3A0A2A85...@aracnet.com>:
>
>>
>>What's "posh"?
>>
>>The only posh I've heard of is a Spice Girl... ;)
>>
>
>Oh... Oh... I know this one.
>
>Posh or P.O.S.H means upper-class and very wealthy, it comes from when
>Brits used to periodically travel to India by boat. The wealthy people used
>to insist on having Port side cabins on the journey out and Starboard ones
>coming back as they were the most pleasant and avoided the heat. So their
>luggage had Port Out Starboard Home on it, or P.O.S.H. for short.
It's a nice story pity it's not actually true though.
From the alt.folklore.urban archive
<http://www.urbanlegends.com/language/etymology/posh_etymology_of.html>
From: jer...@jaiser.rain.com (Jerry Gaiser)
Subject: POSH
This re-emergence of POSH has caused me to dig into one of the best
books (IMNSHO) on the etymology of words, The Browser's Dictionary by
John Ciardi.
I quote (of course without permission):
---
posh Swanky. Deluxe. [A direct borrowing of the form but not the sense
of Romany 'posh', half. Brit. Gypsies commonly, if warily, worked with
Brit. rogues. 'Shiv', Romany for "knife," came into Eng. through this
association. Similarly 'rum go' is at root 'Rom go', "a Gypsy thing,"
hence a queer thing. Brit. rogues came to know posh in such compounds as
'posh-houri,' half pence, and 'posh-kooroona,' half crown, so
associating it with money, and from XVII to mid XIX 'posh' meant "money"
in thieves cant, the sense then shifting to "swank, fashionable,
expensive" ("the good things money can buy")]
NOTE. A pervasive folk etymology renders the term as an acronym of
p(ort) o(out), s(tarboard) h(ome), with ref. to the ideal accommodations
on the passage to India by way of the Suez Canal, a packet service
provided by the Peninsula and Eastern steamship line. The acronym is
said to explain the right placement of one's stateroom for being on the
shady or the lee side of the ship. On the east-west passage it is true,
the ship being north of the sun, that the acronym will locate the shady
side (though time of year will make a substantial difference). The lee
side, however, is determined by the monsoon winds, and since they blow
into the Asian heartland all summer and out all winter, only the season
can determine which side will be sheltered. The earlier dating of 'posh'
as glossed above sufficiently refutes the ingenious (but too late)
acronymic invention. And as a clincher, veterans of the Peninsula and
Eastern, questioned about the term, replied that they had never heard it
in the acronymic sense.
--
Great Internet Mersenne Prime Search http://www.mersenne.org/prime.htm
Brett Paul Dunbar