Slayer Life Expectancy.
David A. Tepper
> Why does everyone assume that the life expectancy of the Slayer is
> so short, once she has been chosen. If the poor girl is going to die within
> months of getting the job, why go to the trouble of giveng them years and
> years of training, to go with their added strength and reflexes.
Because otherwise humanity becomes a smorgasbord for the
demons in Hell.
> Also, the
> training must teach them something. True, Buffy didn't have this training,
> but she passed the Remedial Slayerhood course with flying colours, and
> should have a long and successful career ahead of her.
If she's careful. Which she can't be because her duty to
fight vampires is inherently dangerous. And in any case,
I seem to remember a quote to the effect that it was rare
for a Slayer to reach the age of 20. To my knowledge,
no one has ever retired.
> To counter that, I argue that the creation of Kendra
> was a bad mistake by the MFfG, as Buffy didn't die, she was merely
> unconcious. If you die, no matter how much CPR you get, you aren't coming
> back.
I took it that Buffy was actually clinically dead for a
period of time. Heart not pumping, lungs not breathing,
brains losing function. She had CPR performed on her
that brought her back to life, but for that brief period
of time, all vital signs were zero.
Just my interpretation anyway.
Dave Tepper
Don Sample
>John Rees wrote:
>>
>> Why does everyone assume that the life expectancy of the Slayer is
>> so short, once she has been chosen. If the poor girl is going to die within
>> months of getting the job, why go to the trouble of giveng them years and
>> years of training, to go with their added strength and reflexes. Also, the
>> training must teach them something. True, Buffy didn't have this training,
>> but she passed the Remedial Slayerhood course with flying colours, and
>> should have a long and successful career ahead of her.
>>
>> I think that once chosen, a good Slayer can last for years and
>> years, maybe even retiring if she survives into her thirties, thus allowing
>> a fit, healthy young slayer to be chosen.
>It's quite possible you're right. In What's My Line, Giles said:
>
>"What you have is more than a "gig." It's a sacred duty. Which
>shouldn't prevent you from eventually procuring some more gainful form
>of employment. such as I did."
>
>I don't remember this episode too well, but Giles' anticipation of a
>future, of sorts, for Buffy might tend to indicate that he sees more
>than a "short life, violent death" scenario for his protege.
>
>tanrandy
Or he may just want her to think that she has a chance to survive being a
teenager.
I expect that the average Slayer's life expectancy is measured in years,
rather than months or decades.
--
Don Sample, dsa...@synapse.net
Visit the Buffy Body Count at http://www.synapse.net/~dsample/BBC
Quando omni flunkus moritati
John Rees
so short, once she has been chosen. If the poor girl is going to die within
months of getting the job, why go to the trouble of giveng them years and
years of training, to go with their added strength and reflexes. Also, the
training must teach them something. True, Buffy didn't have this training,
but she passed the Remedial Slayerhood course with flying colours, and
should have a long and successful career ahead of her.
I think that once chosen, a good Slayer can last for years and
years, maybe even retiring if she survives into her thirties, thus allowing
a fit, healthy young slayer to be chosen.
I know that people might say that in the series there have already
been three slayers. To counter that, I argue that the creation of Kendra
was a bad mistake by the MFfG, as Buffy didn't die, she was merely
unconcious. If you die, no matter how much CPR you get, you aren't coming
back.
--
e.mail: jw...@argonet.co.uk web: http://www.argonet.co.uk/users/jwcr/
"Like shooting flies with a laser cannon, the aims a bit tricky, but it
certainly deals with the flies". Lord Miles Vorkosigan from "Komarr" by Lois
McMasterBujold.
!!Only 62 days left till Christmas!!
Randy Tyra
>
> Why does everyone assume that the life expectancy of the Slayer is
> so short, once she has been chosen. If the poor girl is going to die within
> months of getting the job, why go to the trouble of giveng them years and
> years of training, to go with their added strength and reflexes. Also, the
> training must teach them something. True, Buffy didn't have this training,
> but she passed the Remedial Slayerhood course with flying colours, and
> should have a long and successful career ahead of her.
>
> I think that once chosen, a good Slayer can last for years and
> years, maybe even retiring if she survives into her thirties, thus allowing
> a fit, healthy young slayer to be chosen.
Randy Tyra
>
> Or he may just want her to think that she has a chance to survive being a
> teenager.
there is a subtle cruelty in this thought.
> I expect that the average Slayer's life expectancy is measured in years,
> rather than months or decades.
i would too except the premise of the show is the uniqueness of
Buffy.
FltwdMcFrk
>been three slayers. To counter that, I argue that the creation of Kendra
>was a bad mistake by the MFfG, as Buffy didn't die, she was merely
>unconcious. If you die, no matter how much CPR you get, you aren't >coming
>back.
Cases in which people who have been proclaimed clinically dead have been
revived are not all that uncommon.
-Jim
Don Sample
<Xan...@nym.alias.net> wrote:
>On Fri, 23 Oct 1998 21:36:36 -0400 "David A. Tepper"
><davet...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>>John Rees wrote:
>>
>>> Why does everyone assume that the life expectancy of the Slayer is
>>> so short, once she has been chosen. If the poor girl is going to die within
>>> months of getting the job, why go to the trouble of giveng them years and
>>> years of training, to go with their added strength and reflexes.
>>
>>Because otherwise humanity becomes a smorgasbord for the
>>demons in Hell.
>>
>>> Also, the
>>> training must teach them something. True, Buffy didn't have this training,
>>> but she passed the Remedial Slayerhood course with flying colours, and
>>> should have a long and successful career ahead of her.
>>
>>If she's careful. Which she can't be because her duty to
>>fight vampires is inherently dangerous. And in any case,
>>I seem to remember a quote to the effect that it was rare
>>for a Slayer to reach the age of 20. To my knowledge,
>>no one has ever retired.
>>
>>> To counter that, I argue that the creation of Kendra
>>> was a bad mistake by the MFfG, as Buffy didn't die, she was merely
>>> unconcious. If you die, no matter how much CPR you get, you aren't coming
>>> back.
>>
>>I took it that Buffy was actually clinically dead for a
>>period of time. Heart not pumping, lungs not breathing,
>>brains losing function. She had CPR performed on her
>>that brought her back to life, but for that brief period
>>of time, all vital signs were zero.
>>
>>Just my interpretation anyway.
>>
>>Dave Tepper
>
>In "Surprise", Giles tells Jenny that Buffy should be given a birthday party
>partly because slayers rarely live into their mid-twenties.
>
>I recall there was something less definite prior to this comment but I am quite
>sure this is where the major evidence is.
Unfortunately that scene never reached the air. It was left on the cutting
room floor. (or was never shot in the first place)
AUNTIELIB
>In "Surprise", Giles tells Jenny that Buffy should be given a birthday party
>partly because slayers rarely live into their mid-twenties.
No, he didn't. There is no such line anywhere in that or any other episode.
(He says "Buffy deserves a party..." but he doesn't say why and I took it to
meant that it was because she is a workaholic who deserves some fun.)
>I recall there was something less definite prior to this comment but I am
>quite sure this is where the major evidence is.
They never mention any such thing. (Perhaps you're thinking of the movie?
Which I haven't seen.) Put me firmly in the long-lived camp. As was said
before, why go to all the trouble of creating a unique girl with super strength
and special vampire-slaying skills only to use them up every few years? It
wouldn't make any sense. Buffy was "designed" to be good at her job. I think
the words "Into every generation is born one girl in all the world..." should
be taken at face value. One girl/One generation. (Sorry, I can't go check.
The kid is watching "Toy Story" and I'd likely lose a finger if I tried to turn
it off.)
Giles thinks Buffy has a future and so do I. (But then, I think I'm going to
win the lottery...)
elizabeth
Don Sample
(FltwdMcFrk) wrote:
>>I know that people might say that in the series there have already
>>been three slayers. To counter that, I argue that the creation of Kendra
>>was a bad mistake by the MFfG, as Buffy didn't die, she was merely
>>unconcious. If you die, no matter how much CPR you get, you aren't >coming
>>back.
>
>Cases in which people who have been proclaimed clinically dead have been
>revived are not all that uncommon.
>
>-Jim
Depends on your definition of 'dead'. It has undergone a few revisions in
the past, and will probably go through more in the future. Personally, I
think that if they can be revived, then they're not dead yet. Once upon a
time 'dead' meant that the heart had stopped. Medically that definition
became obsolete in the 50s (or earlier) and now stopping and starting
hearts for various operations is almost routine.
Frank Swarbrick
>
> be taken at face value. One girl/One generation. (Sorry, I can't go check.
> The kid is watching "Toy Story" and I'd likely lose a finger if I tried to turn
> it off.)
Just tell the kid that the person who wrote Toy Story also writes Buffy!
(Yeah, that'll work.)
--
Frank Swarbrick
home: inf...@sprynet.com
work: frank.s...@1stbank.com
Aaron S. Veenstra
aunt...@aol.com (AUNTIELIB) wrote:
> I think
> the words "Into every generation is born one girl in all the world..." should
> be taken at face value. One girl/One generation.
>
> Giles thinks Buffy has a future and so do I.
The only problem with this is that those words really can't be taken
literally -- after all, aren't Buffy, Kendra and Faith all of the same
generation?
Aaron, of course, if she's out of the MFFG's loop, she probably could retire
--
_ _ _
/ \ \ \ / / | asve...@mtu.edu
/ 0 \ aron \ \/ / eenstra | http://www.etchouse.com
/_/ \_\ \__/ | graphic, web, multimedia design
John Schilling
>In article <19981024015940...@ng149.aol.com>,
>aunt...@aol.com (AUNTIELIB) wrote:
>> I think
>> the words "Into every generation is born one girl in all the world..."
>> should be taken at face value. One girl/One generation.
>>
>> Giles thinks Buffy has a future and so do I.
>The only problem with this is that those words really can't be taken
>literally -- after all, aren't Buffy, Kendra and Faith all of the same
>generation?
"Generation" is not a synonym for "about twenty-five years". If it
were, the Radio Shack TRS-80 would represent the same generation of
computer technology as the Pentium II on my desk.
Context matters, and in the context of slayer succession "generation"
presumably corresponds to the length of a typical Slayer's career.
Which seems to be rather less than a decade, and may be only a couple
of years.
--
*John Schilling * "You can have Peace, *
*Member:AIAA,NRA,ACLU,SAS,LP * or you can have Freedom. *
*University of Southern California * Don't ever count on having both *
*Aerospace Engineering Department * at the same time." *
*schi...@spock.usc.edu * - Robert A. Heinlein *
*(213)-740-5311 or 747-2527 * Finger for PGP public key *
David Adrien Tanguay
> In "Surprise", Giles tells Jenny that Buffy should be given a birthday party
> partly because slayers rarely live into their mid-twenties.
Note that this was _not_ said in the show. This discussion was in the
script, but was cut out at some point. It may be indicative of the
intentions of the writers, but it may also have been cut because Joss
decided against that short/long of a Slayer lifetime.
--
David Tanguay d...@Thinkage.on.ca http://www.thinkage.on.ca/~dat/
Thinkage, Ltd. Kitchener, Ontario, Canada [43.24N 80.29W]
Don Sample
>Xanadu wrote:
>> In "Surprise", Giles tells Jenny that Buffy should be given a birthday party
>> partly because slayers rarely live into their mid-twenties.
>
>Note that this was _not_ said in the show. This discussion was in the
>script, but was cut out at some point. It may be indicative of the
>intentions of the writers, but it may also have been cut because Joss
>decided against that short/long of a Slayer lifetime.
>--
>David Tanguay
Or they had to cut 30 seconds somewhere, and that scene was the most expendable.
H. Hanna
On 24 Oct 1998, Don Sample wrote:
> In article <19981024001312...@ng19.aol.com>, fltwd...@aol.com
> (FltwdMcFrk) wrote:
>
> >>I know that people might say that in the series there have already
> >>been three slayers. To counter that, I argue that the creation of Kendra
> >>was a bad mistake by the MFfG, as Buffy didn't die, she was merely
> >>unconcious. If you die, no matter how much CPR you get, you aren't >coming
> >>back.
> >
> >Cases in which people who have been proclaimed clinically dead have been
> >revived are not all that uncommon.
> >
> >-Jim
>
> Depends on your definition of 'dead'. It has undergone a few revisions in
> the past, and will probably go through more in the future. Personally, I
> think that if they can be revived, then they're not dead yet. Once upon a
> time 'dead' meant that the heart had stopped. Medically that definition
> became obsolete in the 50s (or earlier) and now stopping and starting
> hearts for various operations is almost routine.
>
> --
> Don Sample, dsa...@synapse.net
> Visit the Buffy Body Count at http://www.synapse.net/~dsample/BBC
> Quando omni flunkus moritati
She was only *mostly* dead. All dead, well, all you can do is go through
the pockets for loose change. :-)
--holly
John Rees
<d...@thinkage.on.ca> wrote:
> Xanadu wrote:
> > In "Surprise", Giles tells Jenny that Buffy should be given a birthday
> party
> > partly because slayers rarely live into their mid-twenties.
>
> Note that this was _not_ said in the show. This discussion was in the
> script, but was cut out at some point. It may be indicative of the
> intentions of the writers, but it may also have been cut because Joss
> decided against that short/long of a Slayer lifetime.
> --
If the scene was cut, then, it doesn't count. Simple enough. I
think in the film (dangerous ground I know), Buffy says to Merrick that she
has the the life expectancy of a zit, and Merrick dissagrees.
Buffy has been remarkably successful as the Slayer, at one of the
most dangerous locations a Slayer could possibly live. If she has managed
to survive so well in the supernatural version of Sarajevo, then other
Slayers, who had to go looking for trouble would have no problems in having
a long career, and then passing the baton on.
--
e.mail: jw...@argonet.co.uk web: http://www.argonet.co.uk/users/jwcr/
"Like shooting flies with a laser cannon, the aims a bit tricky, but it
certainly deals with the flies". Lord Miles Vorkosigan from "Komarr"
by Lois McMaster Bujold.
!!Only 62 days to Christmas!!
Victor J. Pusateri
H. Hanna wrote in message ...
>
>
>
<snip>
>
>She was only *mostly* dead. All dead, well, all you can do is go through
>the pockets for loose change. :-)
>
>--holly
lol
love the princess bride reference
victoria
Andrew Hall
John Rees wrote:
> Why does everyone assume that the life expectancy of the Slayer is
> so short, once she has been chosen. If the poor girl is going to die within
> months of getting the job, why go to the trouble of giveng them years and
> years of training, to go with their added strength and reflexes. Also, the
> training must teach them something. True, Buffy didn't have this training,
> but she passed the Remedial Slayerhood course with flying colours, and
> should have a long and successful career ahead of her.
>
> I think that once chosen, a good Slayer can last for years and
> years, maybe even retiring if she survives into her thirties, thus allowing
> a fit, healthy young slayer to be chosen.
>
I'd think that Slayers tend to polarize in terms of life expectancy, much like
fighter pilots. There'd be the slayers who get nailed on their first real patrol
and those who survive past their first few fights and have a long career.
The idea of retirement is an interesting one. Imagine Buffy in her mid 20's.
The full strength of an adult, none of the slowing down caused by aging and c.
ten years of experience. If I were a vampire faced with such a slayer (and
seeing the big picture as Mr. Trick claims to) I would simply leave her alone for
twenty or thirty years (vampires being ageless and all) then pick up my plans
where I left of. If slayers can't retire I'd rather have to face a 90 year old
slayer in a walker than a teenager.
--Andy============="Water rules!"--Friends... "Freak rules"--Derek
"..better to light a flamethrower than curse the darkness"-T.Pratchett
"I represent angry, gun toting, meat eating... people" --Denis Leary
"You are only given a little madness, you mustn't lose it."-R. Williams
"I don't have a moral plan. I'm a Canadian"-- David Cronenburg
William George Ferguson
posters.
Retirement is not an option. Both Giles and Buffy have unequivocally
stated that the only way a new Slayer is called is when the old Slayer
dies. There has been absolutely nothing shown in the series to
directly contradict these statements. It was strongly implied (se
Giles' reaction) that Kendra was a first. That's actually easy enough
to believe, CPR has only been around for a few decades, and
resuscitation would depend on someone being near enough that knew CPR,
and the Slayer being in condition for CPR to help. As an example, if
Xander had only been knocked woozy instead of unconscious, and had got
to Kendra immediately after the vamps left with Giles, it wouldn't
have helped (her left carotid artery was cut).
You can, of course speculate that Buffy and Giles are either lying or
mistaken, but I tend to put an unsupported (by what's said and done
onscreen) theory like that in the same category as the possibility
that the whole series is being dreamed by Billy, while lying in a coma
in the hospital (well, it is possible I guess).
Tom Vallejos
>
> >In "Surprise", Giles tells Jenny that Buffy should be given a birthday party
> >partly because slayers rarely live into their mid-twenties.
> >
> >sure this is where the major evidence is.
>
> room floor. (or was never shot in the first place)
>
> --
> Don Sample,
I don't know about that. I do remember Giles' saying the line. I just
can't remember which episode.
--
Tom
to email me remove "nospam" from email address
email: flying...@nospamearthlink.net
Xander: "That's okay. I don't wanna' go. I'm just gonna' go home,
lie down, and listen to country music: the music of pain."
Tom Vallejos
>
> Why does everyone assume that the life expectancy of the Slayer is
> so short, once she has been chosen. If the poor girl is going to die within
> months of getting the job, why go to the trouble of giveng them years and
> years of training, to go with their added strength and reflexes. Also, the
> training must teach them something.
snip
> I know that people might say that in the series there have already
> been three slayers. To counter that, I argue that the creation of Kendra
> was a bad mistake by the MFfG, as Buffy didn't die, she was merely
> unconcious. If you die, no matter how much CPR you get, you aren't coming
> back.
>
> --
Beg to differ, her heart had stopped...by older definitions, before CPR,
that meant one was dead.
Buffy and other slayers can be seen as combat troops for MFFG. In the RW
even the best soldiers get killed or wounded just because the odds catch
up with them. Sometimes they make mistakes. Sometimes it's because the
other side is better. Sometimes the equipment fails. Or you can call it
bad karma.
I can think of a few men in history were the odds finally got them
killed or incapacitated.
1) Baron von Richtoffen, aka the Red Baron, was killed in action after
shooting down 80 Allied planes in WWI. His manner of his death is still
controversal amongst military-avaition historians. The argument is who
killed him. I digress...
2) Union Maj. General Dan Sickles lost a leg at Gettysburg (July 2,
1863) to a Confederate rifle fire. His lost words were something like:
"They can't hit a broadside of a b..."
3) Sgt "Manila" John Basilone, USMC killed in action on Iwo Jima, Feb.
1945. Basilone won the medal of honor at Guadalcanal in 1942, but
returned to combat anyway.
The point is that the odds will eventually catch up with a Slayer. But
sometimes they get lucky
another military example:
L. B. Puller, won 5 Navy Cross and had seen combat off an on from 1919
to 1951, was wounded only once (on Guadalcanal in 1942).
So as long as BtVS is a success and SMG, Joss et al. wants to continue,
Buffy will beat the odds.
AUNTIELIB
ime
>Message-id: <3631EE...@sprynet.com>
>
>Just tell the kid that the person who wrote Toy Story also writes Buffy!
>
>(Yeah, that'll work.)
You know, I had forgotten that! And Lauren picked it out all by herself
without any coaching from me. My favorite lately is "Paulie" and it's the one
I've been tryiing to get her to watch. I guess there's a reason she wanted
"Toy Story". She just has incredible taste. (Like niece, like Auntie I always
say.)
elizabeth
David Adrien Tanguay
> > >Giles tells Jenny that Buffy should be given a birthday party
> > >partly because slayers rarely live into their mid-twenties.
> I don't know about that. I do remember Giles' saying the line. I just
> can't remember which episode.
It's a false memory. You must have read it at Domain of the Slain, or
here on the group. A grep through the transcripts ("twen" and "2[0-9]")
finds nothing close.
AndyProost
>From: Tom Vallejos <flying...@nospamearthlink.net>
>Date: 12:02 AM
>Message-id: <3633BC...@nospamearthlink.net>
<snip>
>2) Union Maj. General Dan Sickles lost a leg at Gettysburg (July 2,
>1863) to a Confederate rifle fire. His lost words were something like:
>"They can't hit a broadside of a b..."
-----
I'm almost certain that you're thinking of John Sedgewick, the great Union
corps commander who's last words at the battle of Spotsylvania Courthouse were
"They couldn't hit an elephant at this dis..."
(I think Sickles is a much niftier guy, though. The OJ of his day, really.)
Tom Vallejos
oh well.
--
Tom Vallejos remove "nospam" from email:
flying...@nospamearthlink.net
Fraser Sr.: "Hello, son."
Fraser: "Hello, Dad. How are you?"
Fraser Sr.: "I'm dead, son. Other than that, do you mean?"
Fraser: "No, that's what I was asking."
Fraser Sr.: "Oh, that's good. Never be ashamed to ask a stupid
question, son. I taught you that, didn't I?"
Fraser: "Not specifically, no."
Fraser Sr.: "Well, no time like the present."
(Fraser turns around in car to find ghost of his dead father sitting
there)
---- From DUE SOUTH episode "Gift of the Wheelman"
Tom Vallejos
I'll have to check my sources.
--
dave...@my-dejanews.com
Andrew Hall <an...@rivernet.net> wrote:
>
>
> John Rees wrote:
>
> > Why does everyone assume that the life expectancy of the Slayer is
> > so short, once she has been chosen. If the poor girl is going to die within
> > months of getting the job, why go to the trouble of giveng them years and
> > years of training, to go with their added strength and reflexes. Also, the
> > but she passed the Remedial Slayerhood course with flying colours, and
> > should have a long and successful career ahead of her.
> >
> > I think that once chosen, a good Slayer can last for years and
> > years, maybe even retiring if she survives into her thirties, thus allowing
> > a fit, healthy young slayer to be chosen.
> >
>
> I'd think that Slayers tend to polarize in terms of life expectancy, much like
> fighter pilots. There'd be the slayers who get nailed on their first real
patrol
> and those who survive past their first few fights and have a long career.
>
> The idea of retirement is an interesting one.
Well maybe if you are using "retirement" in the "Blade Runner" sense of
the word.
Prior to the 2 Slayer fluke, I'd wager that the Council of Watchers
(COW) would frown upon the only Slayer sitting about while demons roamed
the Earth freely. After all if your current Slayer is adamantly
retired, you'd might as well cut your losses and start off fresh with a
new one. Grim, but I doubt the COW would care. Vampires may actually
want a retired Slayer around.
I believe the only other Slayer they have every given an age to before
Buffy was a 20 year old named Florence Gilbert (1897,Virginia City, WY)
from the pilot. If you then go to "School Hard", Spike
mentions,"...There was this one Slayer during the Boxer Rebellion,
and..." So, if Florence Gilbert was still the Slayer at that time (most
likely ~1900) she would be 23 when she died, which may or may not be
typical.
Then you have the "Puppet Show" references. Sid mentions,"...I knew a
Slayer in the 30's. Korean chick. Very hot. We're talking *muscle* tone.
Man, we had some times. (gets a look from Buffy) Hey, that was
pre-dummy, alright?" and later,"...I've lived a lot longer than most
demon hunters. Or Slayers, for that matter." Is that suppose to imply
that some Slayers have lived to be ~60+ years old? Probably not. I
wonder if anything freaky (i.e. cloven hands & feet) happens to Slayers
when they get really old? Maybe they sprout wings?
Please excuse poor humor (if any) quality due to lack of sleep.
"Hell is other people." Jean-Paul Sartre (1905-1980)
P.S. I know this is an old thread (and perhaps even a redundant post), but I'm
trying to determine if any of my posts are ever reaching the newsgroup via my
regular e-mail service. Sorry for any inconvenience.
OBC
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