AOQ Angel Review 5-14: "Smile Time"
Arbitrar Of Quality
threads.
ANGEL
Season Five, Episode 14: "Smile Time"
(or "Because, you are... a puppet")
Writer: Ben Edlund; story by Edlund and Joss Whedon
Director: Ben Edlund
I wasn't sure about this one going in. I knew that it was popular,
but you know my thing about the pure-comedy episodes. Must be that
pesky lack of anything involving a sense of humor.
It's good to see Nina again, having liked the character in her first
appearance. After an update on how she's adjusting to being some new-
agey, moon-worshipping Wicca person, we flow into the basic romantic
comedy that's the basis of the early parts of the show. It's pretty
good as such things go. ("Well... of course, I-ahem- ignored it
completely, changed the subject, and locked her in a cage." "Why are
you yelling at me?") The only character who's really compromised
during all this is Wesley, whom I don't particularly like being made
into the butt of the drawn-out joke about people who're blind only to
what's in front of them. Blah. As often happens in stories involving
mystical spells meant to be funny, it's standard banter until the end
of act one, and then...
Hearing that Angel would be turned into a puppet is one thing, but
actually seeing him as pure felt is something else. It's the kind of
thing that leaves one's mind a little scrambled and not really knowing
what to say. The jaw drops open and stays there for the next half-
hour. One notices particular details as time goes by. His mouth
seems perpetually fixed in a frowny-face, which is of course
appropriate. He's also still wearing the outfit, including the long
(for a puppet his size) black coat. Boreanaz's voice doesn't sound
quite right all the time, which is particularly noticeable during the
earlier scenes. I don't know whether that's just standard piped-in-
voice problems or a deliberate bit of dissonance. As we acclimate to
the premise, we of course know that soon he'll have to meet Nina so
they can see each other in bad conditions, and Spike so that mockery
can abound, and both prospects sound predictable but good.
Dissecting comedy is fruitless enough that I don't want to type very
much about it, but the Angel/Spike sequence, despite being one joke,
hits the viewer with it from several directions. Some people will
like the usual rivalry between them, and some will be amused by the
way Spike can't (or doesn't want to) keep himself from saying the
obvious ("you're a bloody puppet!") or continuing to laugh throughout
the scene. There'll be those who're swept up in the sight of a puppet
launching itself across the room to beat on a grown person, and some
will dig the fact that by the end of the fight, Angel appears to be
winning. Thus, most viewers can be expected to at least crack a
smile. This is also the point at which I first started registering
the puppeteering involved. Until this sequence, I'd just taken it for
granted that the Angel-puppet would be able to walk across the screen
and interact with the actors in a normal manner. And indeed, it's
shown leaping and fighting without any widely visible strings or
anything. Big-time credit to the people who make that happen.
Other than the really obvious metaphor for our hero's job, "Smile
Time" generally doesn't try to shoehorn in much visible depth, so I
feel reasonably confident calling it a pure comedy. But thrown in
there, just for a few minutes, is something with a very different tone
that. I don't find it to not fit, despite what logic says - I
actually think it's a very smart choice to sneak it in to an episode
like this, where it can seem more subtle than it is. Gunn has some
trouble with the legal-ese (to make it even more clever, this was
actually introduced in passing last week), which is funny - "set forth
in chapter 15 of the children's... TV thing! You turned my boss into
a frickin' puppet!" He goes to get his implant looked at, and it
turns out the Senior Partners meant it to happen. Which is so simple
and clever that I can't say it even occurred to me. Give him a way to
be a big cat and make a difference, let him and his friends come to
depend on it, and then take it away. To what lengths will he be
driven to avoid going _Flowers For Algernon_ on us? Gunn seems to
think that there's a moral principle involved: "I don't make deals
with people like you" (the dialogue at the end of this part with the
"ignorant street muscle" bit is the only thing I'd change - too
direct). He's next seen apparently humming along at full capacity.
All right, Charles, you've officially moved from "we're watching
closely" to "we're actively worried about whom you're becoming."
I want to reference the delivery of the lines on the math news-cast,
but can't find a paragraph to stick it in. That was funny. In fact
(ah, here we go), there's a lot that's funny. Nothing I can do to
convince anyone who disagrees; I'm limited to making the outright
assertion that most of the show is hysterical, possibly the funniest
complete show in the entire ME canon. It takes one measure of talent
and/or courage to conceive of this as an idea for an episode in the
first place, and another to make it work. The only other thing I'd
like to add there is that the spacing of the jokes is right. We get
to know our hero as a puppet before he becomes a kung-fu fighting
puppet. We wait to midway through the show, once those gags have
started to run their course, to really introduce the rest of our cast
of characters... including the one who communicates only by honking,
like the old vaudeville-turned-children's-show standard. Literally
every time Hornblower did what his name implies, Mrs. Quality started
cracking up. Like clockwork. And then we wait until the very end to
see our miniscule hero grab his broadsword and, best of all, go into
cute little vamp-face. Damn, that's good stuff. I'm talking about
whatever substances Joss and Ben were on, of course. But it also
describes ST.
Although there's an effective bit of action-movie drama worked in
there during the final confrontation. Even though Wesley is being
menaced by a giant puppet that gets shot and "bleeds" stuffing, seeing
Fred torn between rushing to his aid and finishing the incantation,
and managing some of each, could have been a perfectly good sequence
even if it weren't also so damn amusing.
Totally called Nina wolfing out in the middle of Angel's monologue,
especially given what they were doing with the camera. On a snarky
level, appreciating the fact that they avoid having to show us the
costume. On a baser biological level, definitely appreciating the
fact that we get to see so much of Nina - I've always liked looking at
the actor, Jenny Molen, but hadn't realized under those outfits how
nicely endowed she is (you know you were all thinking it). This
relationship is, as others have already commented on in earlier
episodes, a little bit at odds with how ATS has handled love stories
before (although from "Tomorrow" on, we've been okay). Here Wesley
very curtly brushes away Angel's worries related to the curse.
Honestly, even if it clashes, it's an improvement - it's as obvious to
me as to Wes that dating and sex do not equal true happiness,
especially given that our hero has gotten pelvic since then without
losing his soul. What happened with Buffy was brought on by a very
particular set of circumstances and by the person Angel was then as
opposed to now. Fittingly enough, we probably have Cordelia and
"You're Welcome" to thank for Angel giving himself a chance to
"deserve" a love life. I think I should be worried about how things
will go just because Nina seems to be from another world, so "normal"
next to him, but then of course I remember that she has to live in
fantasy-land anyway. No more analysis for now, given that the episode
ends with a breakfast date between a muppet and a werewolf. What can
one say about that?
Oh, and Wesley and Fred hook up too. Glad they finally went somewhere
with this, and liked the choice of music for the kiss, but am largely
indifferent. They're a cute enough couple, but the time when I
would've particularly cared was two seasons ago.
This Is Really Stupid But Caused Me To Have Difficulty Breathing For
The Next Few Minutes moment(s):
- "I'm gonna tear you a new puppet hole, bitch!"
So...
One-sentence summary: Full of courage and pluck.
AOQ rating: Excellent
[Season Five so far:
1) "Conviction" - Weak
2) "Just Rewards" - Good
3) "Unleashed" - Good
4) "Hell Bound" - Decent
5) "Life Of The Party" - Weak
6) "The Cautionary Tale Of Numero Cinco" - Decent
7) "Lineage" - Good
8) "Destiny" - Good
9) "Harm's Way" - Good
10) "Soul Purpose" - Good
11) "Damage" - Good
12) "You're Welcome" - Good
13) "Why We Fight" - Weak
14) "Smile Time" - Excellent]
alphakitten
> 14) "Smile Time" - Excellent]
>
*Good boy* :)
~Angel
Espen Schjønberg
*singing happy songs* :-)
Have you noticed how many times we got a bad non-JW ep just before JW
made one himself? Like here, with that drowned and far far below the
surface- episode?
--
Espen
Rowan Hawthorn
> A reminder: Please avoid spoilers for later episodes in these review
> threads.
>
>
> ANGEL
> Season Five, Episode 14: "Smile Time"
> (or "Because, you are... a puppet")
> Writer: Ben Edlund; story by Edlund and Joss Whedon
> Director: Ben Edlund
>
> I wasn't sure about this one going in. I knew that it was popular,
> but you know my thing about the pure-comedy episodes. Must be that
> pesky lack of anything involving a sense of humor.
Y'know, they have pills for that now. (Okay, so I've had the TV on a
little more than usual...)
>
> Hearing that Angel would be turned into a puppet is one thing, but
> actually seeing him as pure felt is something else. It's the kind of
> thing that leaves one's mind a little scrambled and not really knowing
> what to say. The jaw drops open and stays there for the next half-
> hour. One notices particular details as time goes by. His mouth
> seems perpetually fixed in a frowny-face, which is of course
> appropriate.
Heh. Yeah, he's still Angel, just with his frustrations magnified to
Muppet proportions.
> He's also still wearing the outfit, including the long
> (for a puppet his size) black coat. Boreanaz's voice doesn't sound
> quite right all the time, which is particularly noticeable during the
> earlier scenes. I don't know whether that's just standard piped-in-
> voice problems or a deliberate bit of dissonance.
I think it was deliberate - notice that, even though it sounds like
Angel, it *also* sounds like a Muppet-voice. Especially on, "I'm made
of felt. And by dose cubs off..."
> I want to reference the delivery of the lines on the math news-cast,
> but can't find a paragraph to stick it in. That was funny. In fact
> (ah, here we go), there's a lot that's funny. Nothing I can do to
> convince anyone who disagrees; I'm limited to making the outright
> assertion that most of the show is hysterical, possibly the funniest
> complete show in the entire ME canon. It takes one measure of talent
> and/or courage to conceive of this as an idea for an episode in the
> first place, and another to make it work. The only other thing I'd
> like to add there is that the spacing of the jokes is right. We get
> to know our hero as a puppet before he becomes a kung-fu fighting
> puppet. We wait to midway through the show, once those gags have
> started to run their course, to really introduce the rest of our cast
> of characters... including the one who communicates only by honking,
> like the old vaudeville-turned-children's-show standard. Literally
> every time Hornblower did what his name implies, Mrs. Quality started
> cracking up. Like clockwork. And then we wait until the very end to
> see our miniscule hero grab his broadsword and, best of all, go into
> cute little vamp-face. Damn, that's good stuff. I'm talking about
> whatever substances Joss and Ben were on, of course. But it also
> describes ST.
You just hit my favorite episode of the entire series. I have to admit,
though, I still haven't seen the complete run of AtS, simply because -
generally speaking - I just didn't care for it all that much.
>
> One-sentence summary: Full of courage and pluck.
>
> AOQ rating: Excellent
>
Agree.
--
Rowan Hawthorn
"Occasionally, I'm callous and strange." - Willow Rosenberg, "Buffy the
Vampire Slayer"
Elisi
> A reminder: Please avoid spoilers for later episodes in these review
> threads.
>
> ANGEL
> Season Five, Episode 14: "Smile Time"
> (or "Because, you are... a puppet")
> Writer: Ben Edlund; story by Edlund and Joss Whedon
> Director: Ben Edlund
>
> I wasn't sure about this one going in. I knew that it was popular,
> but you know my thing about the pure-comedy episodes. Must be that
> pesky lack of anything involving a sense of humor.
Seriously - if you hadn't liked this one, most people wouldn't have
spoken to you again! Sadly I have next to no time for commenting now,
so just a couple of points.
> Hearing that Angel would be turned into a puppet is one thing, but
> actually seeing him as pure felt is something else. It's the kind of
> thing that leaves one's mind a little scrambled and not really knowing
> what to say. The jaw drops open and stays there for the next half-
> hour.
Word! I was completely unspoiled and the moment when one little
puppethand and then another comes up - and then Puppet!Angel
himself... I think I passed out!
> Other than the really obvious metaphor for our hero's job, "Smile
> Time" generally doesn't try to shoehorn in much visible depth, so I
> feel reasonably confident calling it a pure comedy.
Now this is where I'm going to disagree. And pretty violently too!
This episode's got layes to match the best of them, and once you look
beneath the cute puppet surface it's *seriously* disturbing - just
like the puppet demons. F.ex. the way the puppets suck 'the innocence'
out of the children is very unpleasant. Look at these lines and think
what it sounds like:
"Now get over here and touch it. That's it, Tommy. Come on. Touch it!
Ohh! Ohh... that's it. Oh, yeah. Good boy, Tommy. Oh...ohhh..."
So child abuse is one of the layers. Another is TV - and how about
dissecting the concept (and dangers) of TV in a TV show? There's an
interesting post here:
http://azdak.livejournal.com/472.html
And still - one of the funniest and most brilliant episodes ever! Joss
rules! :)
> One-sentence summary: Full of courage and pluck.
Absolutely!
> AOQ rating: Excellent
:)
Elisi
Couple more recs. before I run off again:
First - and most importantly - a wonderful, wonderful fic, filling in
what happened to Puppet!Angel during the day. This really is _must-
read_ stuff:
http://www.geocities.com/mrebaza/PuppetAngel.html
Also a good episode analysis here:
http://www.soulfulspike.com/nanreviews/nanangel_5-14.html
And finally fun with metaphors here (avoid comments):
http://the-royal-anna.livejournal.com/27081.html
burt...@hotmail.com
> A reminder: Please avoid spoilers for later episodes in these review
> threads.
>
> ANGEL
> Season Five, Episode 14: "Smile Time"
> (or "Because, you are... a puppet")
> Writer: Ben Edlund; story by Edlund and Joss Whedon
> Director: Ben Edlund
(snip)
> One-sentence summary: Full of courage and pluck.
>
> AOQ rating: Excellent
Agreed. This is one of only three episodes in this season I like (the
others being "You're Welcome" and the finale). Not only is it
absolutely hilarious, but there are some genuinely creepy moments,
too, with the subtext about child abuse and the scene with the "meat
puppet" (that was producer David Fury, btw). It's the kind of
combination that was done so well in early Buffy, though this episode
is more skewed toward the comedic end of things, obviously.
You didn't mention what I thought was one of the funniest moments -
where they show Wes, Fred, and Gunn doing the power walk out of
Angel's office, and then pan down to show puppet Angel in the lead.
That was a great parody of the opening credits and moments in earlier
seasons.
Brilliant episode, but what else would you expect from the creator of
"The Tick?"
mariposas rand mair fheal greykitten tomys des anges
> very curtly brushes away Angel's worries related to the curse.
> Honestly, even if it clashes, it's an improvement - it's as obvious to
> me as to Wes that dating and sex do not equal true happiness,
> especially given that our hero has gotten pelvic since then without
> losing his soul. What happened with Buffy was brought on by a very
> particular set of circumstances and by the person Angel was then as
> opposed to now. Fittingly enough, we probably have Cordelia and
we needed buttercup and westley to prance by to emphasize the rarity
of twooo wwwuv
meow arf meow - they are performing horrible experiments in space
major grubert is watching you - beware the bakalite
impeach the bastard - the airtight garage has you neo
Michael Ikeda
news:1172159584.3...@p10g2000cwp.googlegroups.com:
> A reminder: Please avoid spoilers for later episodes in these
> review threads.
>
>
> ANGEL
> Season Five, Episode 14: "Smile Time"
> (or "Because, you are... a puppet")
> Writer: Ben Edlund; story by Edlund and Joss Whedon
> Director: Ben Edlund
>
>
>
> So...
>
> One-sentence summary: Full of courage and pluck.
>
And self-esteem. Self-esteem is for everybody...
--
Michael Ikeda mmi...@erols.com
"Telling a statistician not to use sampling is like telling an
astronomer they can't say there is a moon and stars"
Lynne Billard, past president American Statistical Association
Apteryx
news:1172159584.3...@p10g2000cwp.googlegroups.com...
>A reminder: Please avoid spoilers for later episodes in these review
> threads.
>
>
> actually seeing him as pure felt is something else. It's the kind of
> thing that leaves one's mind a little scrambled and not really knowing
> what to say. The jaw drops open and stays there for the next half-
> hour. One notices particular details as time goes by. His mouth
> seems perpetually fixed in a frowny-face, which is of course
> appropriate.
Especially appropriate given that he's now blown whatever residual chance he
had with Buffy (since, as we know, puppets give her the wig, ever since she
was little).
>
> Other than the really obvious metaphor for our hero's job, "Smile
> Time" generally doesn't try to shoehorn in much visible depth, so I
> feel reasonably confident calling it a pure comedy.
But how far can the metaphor be taken? Puppet Angel fights back and wins.
Does that mean that Angel's original plan to fight evil from within W&H can
work, even though he's a W&H puppet? Or is just the fight back the important
point. Or isn't the metapho meant to be stretched that far.
> But thrown in
> there, just for a few minutes, is something with a very different tone
> that. I don't find it to not fit, despite what logic says - I
> actually think it's a very smart choice to sneak it in to an episode
> like this, where it can seem more subtle than it is. Gunn has some
> trouble with the legal-ese (to make it even more clever, this was
> actually introduced in passing last week), which is funny - "set forth
> in chapter 15 of the children's... TV thing! You turned my boss into
> a frickin' puppet!" He goes to get his implant looked at, and it
> turns out the Senior Partners meant it to happen. Which is so simple
> and clever that I can't say it even occurred to me. Give him a way to
> be a big cat and make a difference, let him and his friends come to
> depend on it, and then take it away. To what lengths will he be
> driven to avoid going _Flowers For Algernon_ on us? Gunn seems to
> think that there's a moral principle involved: "I don't make deals
> with people like you" (the dialogue at the end of this part with the
> "ignorant street muscle" bit is the only thing I'd change - too
> direct). He's next seen apparently humming along at full capacity.
> All right, Charles, you've officially moved from "we're watching
> closely" to "we're actively worried about whom you're becoming."
They are all in the belly of the beast, but has Gunn just been digested?
> I want to reference the delivery of the lines on the math news-cast,
> but can't find a paragraph to stick it in. That was funny. In fact
> (ah, here we go), there's a lot that's funny. Nothing I can do to
> convince anyone who disagrees; I'm limited to making the outright
> assertion that most of the show is hysterical, possibly the funniest
> complete show in the entire ME canon.
Hm, possibly. In AtS, its no contest. I think I rate Something Blue and BBB
a little funnier (certainly I rate them both a little higher as episodes,
and I can't recall anything in BBB in particular that would affect that
rating except the humour). But certainly its close.
> It takes one measure of talent
> and/or courage to conceive of this as an idea for an episode in the
> first place, and another to make it work. The only other thing I'd
> like to add there is that the spacing of the jokes is right. We get
> to know our hero as a puppet before he becomes a kung-fu fighting
> puppet. We wait to midway through the show, once those gags have
> started to run their course, to really introduce the rest of our cast
> of characters... including the one who communicates only by honking,
> like the old vaudeville-turned-children's-show standard. Literally
> every time Hornblower did what his name implies, Mrs. Quality started
> cracking up. Like clockwork. And then we wait until the very end to
> see our miniscule hero grab his broadsword and, best of all, go into
> cute little vamp-face. Damn, that's good stuff. I'm talking about
> whatever substances Joss and Ben were on, of course. But it also
> describes ST.
Great stuff. I also loved the just earlier power walk with Fred, Wes and
Gunn, panning down to reveal them led by broadsword wielding puppet Angel,
determination written on his face.
> Totally called Nina wolfing out in the middle of Angel's monologue,
> especially given what they were doing with the camera.
And the "I'm paying better attention" speech. Bad Nina!
> before (although from "Tomorrow" on, we've been okay). Here Wesley
> very curtly brushes away Angel's worries related to the curse.
> Honestly, even if it clashes, it's an improvement - it's as obvious to
> me as to Wes that dating and sex do not equal true happiness,
> especially given that our hero has gotten pelvic since then without
> losing his soul. What happened with Buffy was brought on by a very
> particular set of circumstances and by the person Angel was then as
> opposed to now. Fittingly enough, we probably have Cordelia and
> "You're Welcome" to thank for Angel giving himself a chance to
> "deserve" a love life. I think I should be worried about how things
> will go just because Nina seems to be from another world, so "normal"
> next to him, but then of course I remember that she has to live in
> fantasy-land anyway. No more analysis for now, given that the episode
> ends with a breakfast date between a muppet and a werewolf. What can
> one say about that?
>
> Oh, and Wesley and Fred hook up too.
Just as an afterthought? It's When Harry Met Sally meets Bride of
Frankenstein. These two were made for each, and now they finally seem to
know it. I thought the gags early in the episode about Wes missing her
signals were a bit OTT, but I guess making the point that even if in demon
fighting Wes had put his klutzy beginings behind him, in his personal life
he's still Wesley. But in the end he gets her ever so sublte signal, at
least when she tells him it was a signal. Aww.
>
> So...
>
> One-sentence summary: Full of courage and pluck.
>
> AOQ rating: Excellent
Excellent for me too. But for me its only the 2nd Excellent of the series,
and the 1st since The Trial (episode 9 of season 2), so its been a long time
between drinks. Its my 3rd favourite AtS episode, and also 3rd in season 5.
--
Apteryx
One Bit Shy
news:1172159584.3...@p10g2000cwp.googlegroups.com...
> ANGEL
> Season Five, Episode 14: "Smile Time"
Groofus: Our top story this morning... 2 plus 2 is 4!
Angel is a puppet! You get that, right? Strings being pulled...
Manipulated by the hands of greater beings... A tool for show... etc. etc...
Metaphor.... Oh. Obvious. Right. <mumble, mumble> Well I didn't get it
first time!! <grumble> Hey, at this point I was just racing through the
episodes to get them done. I was kind of overdosed on AtS and trying to
write about Buffy and wasn't thinking about what I saw. and...
Groofus: I've been workin' on this great new song about the difference
between analogy and metaphor?
I really would have liked to have heard that.
OK. The important stuff. Nina has boobs. Soft, fleshy, squishy... Hey
this may be the most exposed ever on a Whedon show. Even the famous River
shot wasn't this sexual. Gotta drink it in. Besides, I told you I didn't
actually think about this episode.
OK. More serious. Is it just me, or is there something really disturbing
about Nina and puppet Angel going off together?
Nina: What do puppets eat?
Angel: Let's find out.
They weren't talking about food, were they? Although, remembering Darla,
being made out of felt might be the safe sex solution for Angel.
Groofus: And in related news, 4 plus 4...is 8!
Oh, Gunn, Gunn, Gunn. What are we going to do with you? I imagine that
whatever favor he did can't bear scrutiny...
But the great tragedy is confirmation that Wesley really can't kiss. I know
that Fred doesn't seem to mind, but I think that has to be really obvious
foreshadowing of trouble ahead.
Did you ever read Horatio Hornblower books? Great stuff.
Let's see, what else... Oh, yeah, I heard a rumor somewhere that this
episode was supposed to be amusing. Scythe said he'd have to beat you with
a stick if you didn't find it funny. I'm still hiding under my desk, so I'm
not sure.
> So...
>
> One-sentence summary: Full of courage and pluck.
>
> AOQ rating: Excellent
Oh, yeah. Excellent.
And while the puppets entertained you, the ride just tipped over the top of
the big hill...
OBS
chr...@removethistoreply.gwu.edu
> A reminder: Please avoid spoilers for later episodes in these review
> threads.
> ANGEL
> Season Five, Episode 14: "Smile Time"
> (or "Because, you are... a puppet")
> Writer: Ben Edlund; story by Edlund and Joss Whedon
> Director: Ben Edlund
I'm very glad you liked this episode, one of my favorites. (Will this
positive review make everyone retrospectively respect your negative
reviews of various comedy episodes?)
> you yelling at me?") The only character who's really compromised
> during all this is Wesley, whom I don't particularly like being made
> into the butt of the drawn-out joke about people who're blind only to
> what's in front of them.
Though I love this episode, Wesley's denseness about Fred in the early
parts kinda bothers me. He has been hyper-sensitive to anything
Fred-related for a while now, and he made a very thinly veiled declaration
of love to her at the end of Lineage; so his failure to see Fred starting
to respond was hard to swallow, no matter how much he may have been
distracted by work. Unless maybe Wesley wasn't honestly dense, but
deliberately acting dumb until Fred declared her feelings openly? Nah, I
can't convince myself of that. Oh, well, the payoff at the end was very
nice.
> the scene. There'll be those who're swept up in the sight of a puppet
> launching itself across the room to beat on a grown person, and some
> will dig the fact that by the end of the fight, Angel appears to be
> winning.
After the fight in Destiny, Angel thought Spike beat him because he wanted
it more. Now PuppetAngel puts the smackdown on Spike. Does the muppet
version of Angel want to win more intensely? Is Angel a better fighter
when his destiny isn't at stake, so that he isn't hobbled by conflicted
feelings or lack of faith? Or does public mockery just set Angel off more
than anything else does?
(Or maybe Spike just loses this time because he doesn't care as much about
this fight. But that would be too simple.)
> direct). He's next seen apparently humming along at full capacity.
> All right, Charles, you've officially moved from "we're watching
> closely" to "we're actively worried about whom you're becoming."
Indeed. I wonder if Gunn himself is worried, once the deal is done? In
Conviction he disdained the very idea of second thoughts. "So you're not
backing out?" "You don't know me or you wouldn't ask that question."
> I want to reference the delivery of the lines on the math news-cast,
> but can't find a paragraph to stick it in. That was funny. In fact
> (ah, here we go), there's a lot that's funny. Nothing I can do to
> convince anyone who disagrees; I'm limited to making the outright
> assertion that most of the show is hysterical, possibly the funniest
> complete show in the entire ME canon.
Not much I can add to that. Here are a few nice laughs I haven't seen
anyone else mention yet:
-"You're fired."
-Fred, Gunn, and Wes trying to keep straight faces during the first
conversation with PuppetAngel.
-During the Spike-Angel fight, Spike's two "Ow"s, first laughing and then
angry as he realizes the wee puppet man is really hurting him.
-Flora and Groofus's looks of shock when Polo says "Screw edu-tainment!"
-Ratio Hornblower's squeaking as he runs to the nest egg.
-There's also "Who are we talking about here?" "Fred", though it's not
really in the same category.
> Honestly, even if it clashes, it's an improvement - it's as obvious to
> me as to Wes that dating and sex do not equal true happiness,
> especially given that our hero has gotten pelvic since then without
> losing his soul. What happened with Buffy was brought on by a very
> particular set of circumstances and by the person Angel was then as
> opposed to now.
Angel himself has said that the whole curse thing has been widely
misinterpreted. It's pretty clear that he's now using the curse as an
excuse to avoid his real problem: a severely pessimistic conviction that
he can never have a successful relationship.
> Oh, and Wesley and Fred hook up too. Glad they finally went somewhere
> with this, and liked the choice of music for the kiss, but am largely
> indifferent. They're a cute enough couple, but the time when I
> would've particularly cared was two seasons ago.
Well, being indifferent is better than being actively opposed....
> This Is Really Stupid But Caused Me To Have Difficulty Breathing For
> The Next Few Minutes moment(s):
> - "I'm gonna tear you a new puppet hole, bitch!"
Best. Line. EVAR.
> AOQ rating: Excellent
Yes.
--Chris
______________________________________________________________________
chrisg [at] gwu.edu On the Internet, nobody knows I'm a dog.
chr...@removethistoreply.gwu.edu
Oh, and we can assume that this delightful comedy episode, with its
unusually happy ending, probably opens up a new, sunnier, more
lighthearted era for AtS.
chr...@removethistoreply.gwu.edu
> Did you ever read Horatio Hornblower books? Great stuff.
I'll second that. Though I think the Aubrey-Maturin novels by Patrick
O'Brian are even better. (The Hornblower TV movies made by A&E are
decent but just a pale imitation of the books. Likewise the movie
_Master & Commander_ is decent but just a pale imitation of O'Brian's
books.) If you want to read the Hornblower books, I recommend starting
with the first three published (Beat to Quarters, Ship of the Line and
Flying Colours) before reading the rest of the series according to its
internal chronology. Of course, I'm weird.
Michael Ikeda
news:12tscou...@corp.supernews.com:
> In alt.tv.angel Arbitrar Of Quality <tsm...@wildmail.com> wrote:
>> A reminder: Please avoid spoilers for later episodes in these
>> review threads.
>
>> ANGEL
>> Season Five, Episode 14: "Smile Time"
>> (or "Because, you are... a puppet")
>> Writer: Ben Edlund; story by Edlund and Joss Whedon
>> Director: Ben Edlund
>
> Though I love this episode, Wesley's denseness about Fred in the
> early parts kinda bothers me. He has been hyper-sensitive to
> anything Fred-related for a while now, and he made a very thinly
> veiled declaration of love to her at the end of Lineage; so his
> failure to see Fred starting to respond was hard to swallow, no
> matter how much he may have been distracted by work. Unless
> maybe Wesley wasn't honestly dense, but deliberately acting dumb
> until Fred declared her feelings openly?
I'd read it more as Wesley having so completely given up hope that
Fred would ever return his feelings that he simply couldn't see the
signs that she did.
Ian Galbraith
[snip]
> AOQ rating: Excellent
Oh. My. God. You gave a purely comedic episode an Excellent :-). And
fully deserved it is to. I'd have to say its my favourite episode of this
season, maybe even the whole of Angel.
[snip]
--
"Imagination is more important than knowledge. Knowledge is limited.
Imagination encircles the world." - Einstein
jil...@hotmail.com
Also, it was wonderfully entertaining. Oh!
Um, I'm an ESL teacher in Japan. While my kids can't manage the
deeper things, they have no trouble understanding the humor of it.
Plus, I enjoyed the episode.
(Harmony) Watcher
"Rowan Hawthorn" <rowan_h...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:0MKdnVbWKuE...@giganews.com...
>
> > <snip>
> >
> > Hearing that Angel would be turned into a puppet is one thing, but
> > actually seeing him as pure felt is something else. It's the kind of
> > thing that leaves one's mind a little scrambled and not really knowing
> > what to say. The jaw drops open and stays there for the next half-
> > hour. One notices particular details as time goes by. His mouth
> > seems perpetually fixed in a frowny-face, which is of course
> > appropriate.
>
> Heh. Yeah, he's still Angel, just with his frustrations magnified to
> Muppet proportions.
>
> > He's also still wearing the outfit, including the long
> > (for a puppet his size) black coat. Boreanaz's voice doesn't sound
> > quite right all the time, which is particularly noticeable during the
> > earlier scenes. I don't know whether that's just standard piped-in-
> > voice problems or a deliberate bit of dissonance.
>
> I think it was deliberate - notice that, even though it sounds like
> Angel, it *also* sounds like a Muppet-voice. Especially on, "I'm made
> of felt. And by dose cubs off..."
>
It just sounded a bit like nasal congestion. Perhaps DB put two fingers on
the bridge of his nose when recording the dialogs. :)
--
==Harmony Watcher
Elisi
> After the fight in Destiny, Angel thought Spike beat him because he wanted
> it more. Now PuppetAngel puts the smackdown on Spike. Does the muppet
> version of Angel want to win more intensely? Is Angel a better fighter
> when his destiny isn't at stake, so that he isn't hobbled by conflicted
> feelings or lack of faith? Or does public mockery just set Angel off more
> than anything else does?
>
> (Or maybe Spike just loses this time because he doesn't care as much about
> this fight. But that would be too simple.)
Ah, but this started in 'You're Welcome':
SPIKE: You took me on and lost, remember, old man?
ANGEL: Touch Cordelia again... get ready for our very last rematch.
Whether Spike lost in Smile Time because PuppetAngel was stronger or
because he couldn't fight properly because he was laughing too hard
doesn't really matter. It's the principle of the thing - Angel found
the passion he was lacking. And also "Stupid, limey piece of crap" is
never not funny!
Paul Hyett
:
>
>ANGEL
>Season Five, Episode 14: "Smile Time"
>
>
>One-sentence summary: Full of courage and pluck.
>
>AOQ rating: Excellent
You gotta be kidding?
To quote a phrase : 'WORST EPISODE EVER'.
I tuned in to watch a drama, not fucking Sesame Street! :(
The only redeeming feature was the presence of the gorgeous Jenny Mollen
(Nina).
--
Paul 'Charts Fan' Hyett
Elisi
> In alt.tv.buffy-v-slayer on Thu, 22 Feb 2007, Arbitrar Of Quality wrote
> :
>
>
>
> >ANGEL
> >Season Five, Episode 14: "Smile Time"
>
> >So...
>
> >One-sentence summary: Full of courage and pluck.
>
> >AOQ rating: Excellent
>
> You gotta be kidding?
>
> To quote a phrase : 'WORST EPISODE EVER'.
>
> I tuned in to watch a drama, not fucking Sesame Street! :(
You thought that was Sesame Street? *blinks* This is probably the most
disturbing episode in the entire Buffy verse! (And not just because of
the child abuse.) Some good (and VERY SPOILERY) thoughts here:
http://yhlee.livejournal.com/657614.html#cutid1
And some meta thoughts on TV here:
http://azdak.livejournal.com/472.html
The fact that it is _also_ very very funny just goes to show what a
genius Joss is!
mariposas rand mair fheal greykitten tomys des anges
"Elisi" <eli...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Feb 23, 8:47 am, Paul Hyett <p...@nojunkmailplease.co.uk> wrote:
> > In alt.tv.buffy-v-slayer on Thu, 22 Feb 2007, Arbitrar Of Quality wrote
> > :
> >
> >
> >
> > >ANGEL
> > >Season Five, Episode 14: "Smile Time"
> >
> > >So...
> >
> > >One-sentence summary: Full of courage and pluck.
> >
> > >AOQ rating: Excellent
> >
> > You gotta be kidding?
> >
> > To quote a phrase : 'WORST EPISODE EVER'.
> >
> > I tuned in to watch a drama, not fucking Sesame Street! :(
>
> You thought that was Sesame Street? *blinks* This is probably the most
heretics
either ignore them
or burn them at the stake
drifter
> In alt.tv.buffy-v-slayer on Thu, 22 Feb 2007, Arbitrar Of Quality
> wrote
>>
>>
>> ANGEL
>> Season Five, Episode 14: "Smile Time"
>>
>> So...
>>
>> One-sentence summary: Full of courage and pluck.
>>
>> AOQ rating: Excellent
>
> You gotta be kidding?
>
> To quote a phrase : 'WORST EPISODE EVER'.
>
> I tuned in to watch a drama, not fucking Sesame Street! :(
If drama's all you're looking for, you're wasting your time
watching a Joss Whedon show.
And what kind of scary Sesame Street were *you* watching as
a kid?
--
Kel
"Don't talk unless you can improve the silence."
bookworm
> "Arbitrar Of Quality" <tsm...@wildmail.com> wrote in
> news:1172159584.3...@p10g2000cwp.googlegroups.com:
>
>> A reminder: Please avoid spoilers for later episodes in these
>> review threads.
>>
>>
>> ANGEL
>> Season Five, Episode 14: "Smile Time"
>> (or "Because, you are... a puppet")
>> Writer: Ben Edlund; story by Edlund and Joss Whedon
>> Director: Ben Edlund
>>
>
>>
>> So...
>>
>> One-sentence summary: Full of courage and pluck.
>>
>
> And self-esteem. Self-esteem is for everybody...
>
bookworm
> "Arbitrar Of Quality" <tsm...@wildmail.com> wrote in
> news:1172159584.3...@p10g2000cwp.googlegroups.com:
>
>> A reminder: Please avoid spoilers for later episodes in these
>> review threads.
>>
>>
>> ANGEL
>> Season Five, Episode 14: "Smile Time"
>> (or "Because, you are... a puppet")
>> Writer: Ben Edlund; story by Edlund and Joss Whedon
>> Director: Ben Edlund
>>
>
>>
>> So...
>>
>> One-sentence summary: Full of courage and pluck.
>>
>
> And self-esteem. Self-esteem is for everybody...
>
Just a little bit of math in everything
From the number of your toes
to the arc of a swing
and even in the length of a yo-yo string
there's a little bit of math in everything
one plus one is two
and two plus two is four...
bookworm
Espen Schjønberg
> Paul Hyett wrote:
>>
>> []I tuned in to watch a drama, not fucking Sesame Street! :(
>
>
> []And what kind of scary Sesame Street were *you* watching as
> a kid?
>
Yeah, thats more like "Pompel & Pilt". Really scary stuff, you have no idea.
http://blog.wfmu.org/freeform/2006/11/pompel_pilt.html
(I just found this blog now by googling for something in English.)
--
Espen
Elisi
Just remembered...
"It's metaphor! Please tell me I don't have to explain metaphor to you
people..."
And in 'Smile Time' we almost get there...
"I've been working on this song about the difference between metaphor
and analogy..."
Taking this show at surface level is like... thinking that Buffy is a
ditzy blonde and nothing more.
Rowan Hawthorn
> "Rowan Hawthorn" <rowan_h...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:0MKdnVbWKuE...@giganews.com...
>>> <snip>
>>>
>>> Hearing that Angel would be turned into a puppet is one thing, but
>>> actually seeing him as pure felt is something else. It's the kind of
>>> thing that leaves one's mind a little scrambled and not really knowing
>>> what to say. The jaw drops open and stays there for the next half-
>>> hour. One notices particular details as time goes by. His mouth
>>> seems perpetually fixed in a frowny-face, which is of course
>>> appropriate.
>> Heh. Yeah, he's still Angel, just with his frustrations magnified to
>> Muppet proportions.
>>
> I thought Angel was a bloody *puppet*, not a muppet.
Yeah, well, the features on all the "Smile Time" puppets are distinctive
enough that it's a fairly safe guess as to which breed of the critter
was being parodied...
>
>
>>> He's also still wearing the outfit, including the long
>>> (for a puppet his size) black coat. Boreanaz's voice doesn't sound
>>> quite right all the time, which is particularly noticeable during the
>>> earlier scenes. I don't know whether that's just standard piped-in-
>>> voice problems or a deliberate bit of dissonance.
>> I think it was deliberate - notice that, even though it sounds like
>> Angel, it *also* sounds like a Muppet-voice. Especially on, "I'm made
>> of felt. And by dose cubs off..."
>>
> It just sounded a bit like nasal congestion. Perhaps DB put two fingers on
> the bridge of his nose when recording the dialogs. :)
Probably, although it's easily enough done without it. I felt there was
a peculiar whiny tone that just fit the puppet shape (different from
Angel's *usual* whiny tone, that is...)
--
Rowan Hawthorn
"Occasionally, I'm callous and strange." - Willow Rosenberg, "Buffy the
Vampire Slayer"
Arbitrar Of Quality
> So child abuse is one of the layers. Another is TV - and how about
> dissecting the concept (and dangers) of TV in a TV show? There's an
> interesting post here:
I'm not really seeing the "dissection" of TV; the episode doesn't have
time to go into much depth there. But I only mention it because it
would appear that Chief Seattle (http://chiefseattlereviews.net) has a
theory that Fury's character is Joss, after the compromises he made to
keep the show on the air for a fifth season.
-AOQ
Arbitrar Of Quality
> "Arbitrar Of Quality" <tsm...@wildmail.com> wrote in messagenews:1172159584.3...@p10g2000cwp.googlegroups.com...
> > Hearing that Angel would be turned into a puppet is one thing, but
> > actually seeing him as pure felt is something else. It's the kind of
> > thing that leaves one's mind a little scrambled and not really knowing
> > what to say. The jaw drops open and stays there for the next half-
> > hour. One notices particular details as time goes by. His mouth
> > seems perpetually fixed in a frowny-face, which is of course
> > appropriate.
>
> Especially appropriate given that he's now blown whatever residual chance he
> had with Buffy (since, as we know, puppets give her the wig, ever since she
> was little).
She can get over it for the most part, should the fight demand it.
But horny puppets are definitely a turn-off for her.
> > Other than the really obvious metaphor for our hero's job, "Smile
> > Time" generally doesn't try to shoehorn in much visible depth, so I
> > feel reasonably confident calling it a pure comedy.
>
> But how far can the metaphor be taken? Puppet Angel fights back and wins.
> Does that mean that Angel's original plan to fight evil from within W&H can
> work, even though he's a W&H puppet? Or is just the fight back the important
> point. Or isn't the metapho meant to be stretched that far.
Who cares? Watch the funny puppets.
> > I want to reference the delivery of the lines on the math news-cast,
> > but can't find a paragraph to stick it in. That was funny. In fact
> > (ah, here we go), there's a lot that's funny. Nothing I can do to
> > convince anyone who disagrees; I'm limited to making the outright
> > assertion that most of the show is hysterical, possibly the funniest
> > complete show in the entire ME canon.
>
> Hm, possibly. In AtS, its no contest. I think I rate Something Blue and BBB
> a little funnier (certainly I rate them both a little higher as episodes,
> and I can't recall anything in BBB in particular that would affect that
> rating except the humour). But certainly its close.
That's just begging for a bitter comment, but I'm going to let it
slide.
-AOQ
~well, that itself was a comment, but you know what I mean~
Arbitrar Of Quality
> In alt.tv.angel One Bit Shy <O...@nomail.sorry> wrote:
"OK. More serious. Is it just me, or is there something really
disturbing
about Nina and puppet Angel going off together?
Nina: What do puppets eat?
Angel: Let's find out.
They weren't talking about food, were they? Although, remembering
Darla,
being made out of felt might be the safe sex solution for Angel."
I can't say I had that thought, but hearing it now leaves me
speechless in kinda the same way the episode did.
> > Did you ever read Horatio Hornblower books? Great stuff.
>
> I'll second that. Though I think the Aubrey-Maturin novels by Patrick
> O'Brian are even better. (The Hornblower TV movies made by A&E are
> decent but just a pale imitation of the books. Likewise the movie
> _Master & Commander_ is decent but just a pale imitation of O'Brian's
> books.) If you want to read the Hornblower books, I recommend starting
> with the first three published (Beat to Quarters, Ship of the Line and
> Flying Colours) before reading the rest of the series according to its
> internal chronology. Of course, I'm weird.
Haven't read the books, but I'll take your position anyway.
Publication order almost always makes more sense as a way to
experience a series than internal chronology does. The only exception
is if one is worried that the reader won't be willing to stick with an
improving author, but still, I'm very linearly-minded, so I like to
trace an idea/creative process from the beginning.
-AOQ
Arbitrar Of Quality
> In alt.tv.angel Arbitrar Of Quality <tsm...@wildmail.com> wrote:
> I'm very glad you liked this episode, one of my favorites. (Will this
> positive review make everyone retrospectively respect your negative
> reviews of various comedy episodes?)
I doubt it, but it'd be nice. See, people, I have this weird thing
where I only like the funny kind of humor.
> > you yelling at me?") The only character who's really compromised
> > during all this is Wesley, whom I don't particularly like being made
> > into the butt of the drawn-out joke about people who're blind only to
> > what's in front of them.
>
> Though I love this episode, Wesley's denseness about Fred in the early
> parts kinda bothers me. He has been hyper-sensitive to anything
> Fred-related for a while now, and he made a very thinly veiled declaration
> of love to her at the end of Lineage; so his failure to see Fred starting
> to respond was hard to swallow, no matter how much he may have been
> distracted by work. Unless maybe Wesley wasn't honestly dense, but
> deliberately acting dumb until Fred declared her feelings openly? Nah, I
> can't convince myself of that. Oh, well, the payoff at the end was very
> nice.
It might be the biggest flaw of the episode; I'd hoped we were past
laughing at Wesley for being so "amusingly" clueless about things.
Past Buffyverse comedy episodes have been marred by character
development that makes no sense (I'm still a little pissed about Pod-
Willow, who's pretty much the main reason "Pangs" didn't get an
Excellent). And here they manage to keep Angel totally recognizable
as himself after turning him into a goddamn muppet, but then turn
around and have problems with Wesley. I really want to love ST
unreservedly, so next time I'll think about both your and Michael's
explanations and try to make one of them fit.
> After the fight in Destiny, Angel thought Spike beat him because he wanted
> it more. Now PuppetAngel puts the smackdown on Spike. Does the muppet
> version of Angel want to win more intensely? Is Angel a better fighter
> when his destiny isn't at stake, so that he isn't hobbled by conflicted
> feelings or lack of faith? Or does public mockery just set Angel off more
> than anything else does?
>
> (Or maybe Spike just loses this time because he doesn't care as much about
> this fight. But that would be too simple.)
Yeah, too simple, but probably true. Spike's too busy being amused no
matter how much Angel actually hurts him to put up his best fight.
> Oh, and we can assume that this delightful comedy episode, with its unusually happy ending, probably
> opens up a new, sunnier, more lighthearted era for AtS.
Well, doesn't that go without saying?
-AOQ
Elisi
> On Feb 22, 10:34 am, "Elisi" <elis...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > So child abuse is one of the layers. Another is TV - and how about
> > dissecting the concept (and dangers) of TV in a TV show? There's an
> > interesting post here:
>
> I'm not really seeing the "dissection" of TV; the episode doesn't have
> time to go into much depth there.
So the fact that the cute TV show is putting across deeply disturbing
subliminal messages, that the puppets are really demons who have taken
over the show and are ruthlessly pursuing power without any concerns
of quality or morals, that the crew is blind and deaf to anything that
goes on around them - and that this is all being shown on a _tv show_
- doesn't strike you at all? Look underneath. It's all metaphor and
analogy, if you try to find it. (*cough* The WB is evil *cough*)
Oh - like Nina is a very nice metaphor for Buffy and Darla - both
victim and monster.
> But I only mention it because it
> would appear that Chief Seattle (http://chiefseattlereviews.net) has a
> theory that Fury's character is Joss, after the compromises he made to
> keep the show on the air for a fifth season.
*nods*
Don Sample
Rowan Hawthorn <rowan_h...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> (Harmony) Watcher wrote:
> > "Rowan Hawthorn" <rowan_h...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > news:0MKdnVbWKuE...@giganews.com...
> >> Heh. Yeah, he's still Angel, just with his frustrations magnified to
> >> Muppet proportions.
> >>
> > I thought Angel was a bloody *puppet*, not a muppet.
>
> Yeah, well, the features on all the "Smile Time" puppets are distinctive
> enough that it's a fairly safe guess as to which breed of the critter
> was being parodied...
And since "Muppet" is trademarked by The Jim Henson Company, they
couldn't really call him that, even though that's essentially what he
was.
--
Quando omni flunkus moritati
Visit the Buffy Body Count at <http://homepage.mac.com/dsample/>
Rowan Hawthorn
> In article <Jb-dnS1oXYW...@giganews.com>,
> Rowan Hawthorn <rowan_h...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> (Harmony) Watcher wrote:
>>> "Rowan Hawthorn" <rowan_h...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>> news:0MKdnVbWKuE...@giganews.com...
>
>>>> Heh. Yeah, he's still Angel, just with his frustrations magnified to
>>>> Muppet proportions.
>>>>
>>> I thought Angel was a bloody *puppet*, not a muppet.
>> Yeah, well, the features on all the "Smile Time" puppets are distinctive
>> enough that it's a fairly safe guess as to which breed of the critter
>> was being parodied...
>
> And since "Muppet" is trademarked by The Jim Henson Company, they
> couldn't really call him that, even though that's essentially what he
> was.
>
Exactly.
Arnold Kim
<burt...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1172170631.0...@q2g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> On Feb 22, 6:53 am, "Arbitrar Of Quality" <tsm...@wildmail.com> wrote:
>> A reminder: Please avoid spoilers for later episodes in these review
>> threads.
>>
>> Season Five, Episode 14: "Smile Time"
>> Writer: Ben Edlund; story by Edlund and Joss Whedon
>> Director: Ben Edlund
>
>
>> One-sentence summary: Full of courage and pluck.
>>
>> AOQ rating: Excellent
>
> others being "You're Welcome" and the finale). Not only is it
> absolutely hilarious, but there are some genuinely creepy moments,
> too, with the subtext about child abuse and the scene with the "meat
> puppet" (that was producer David Fury, btw). It's the kind of
> combination that was done so well in early Buffy, though this episode
> is more skewed toward the comedic end of things, obviously.
>
> You didn't mention what I thought was one of the funniest moments -
> where they show Wes, Fred, and Gunn doing the power walk out of
> Angel's office, and then pan down to show puppet Angel in the lead.
> That was a great parody of the opening credits and moments in earlier
> seasons.
Not to mention right before that...
PuppetAngel: [pulls out sword] Let's kill some puppets.
Arnold Kim
One Bit Shy
news:1172237678....@m58g2000cwm.googlegroups.com...
The way I take Pod-Willow is that was just the setup - some baggage left
from a lifetime of indoctrination by Mom - but then, as her position becomes
annoying and untenable, it's real Willow's stubborness and determination to
always be right that takes over. It pushes her to a ridiculous place, but
that's one of Willow's weaknesses. One that was displayed several times
that season.
Wesley, however, I can't rationalize. I can try by saying that the
pschology of unrequited love is so obsessive that the only effective defense
mechanism can be to mentally excise the slightest hint of hope, to push away
anything that makes you think of closeness even if entirely unrelated.
Enough to miss it when it's really there. But the notion doesn't seem to
work adequately for Wesley. His talk with Angel seems to show the obsession
to still be working over time, ready to burst out at any reminder. I can't
reconcile his mooning over Fred at a the drop of a hat with oblivion when
Fred moons over him.
I think the excuse that the series is trying to offer is that Wesley is
attempting to be noble - give Fred the room to have her relationship with
Knox. This actually makes sense when you remember that Wesley is already
practiced at it from her time with Gunn. This is how he knows how to live.
Familiar, even if self destructive. Still, I don't really buy it. We know
that the more world weary Wesley from S4 became rather less able to cary the
pretense - not when Fred seemed receptive anyway. I don't know what exactly
Wesley has forgotten, but we do know that he remembers an affair with Lilah
that ended in death. So he can't be the innocent he once was.
That may be the larger issue. What the heck is this year's version of
Wesley about? I loved his encounter with his fake Dad, but has that had any
repercussions?
Oh, well. The redeeming element is that they finally settled it.
This episode isn't perfect. That's one problem spot. It also continues to
rub the same old sore of when Angel's going to do something about his
situation. If we're supposed to think that Angel got his "self esteem" back
here, then what the heck was the point of, "I'm Angel. I beat the bad guys,"
in You're Welcome?
OBS
Elisi
> "Arbitrar Of Quality" <tsm...@wildmail.com> wrote in messagenews:1172237678....@m58g2000cwm.googlegroups.com...
I guess he just gave up hope... much like Spike in S7 never ever tries
to push himself onto Buffy, or even *think* she could be interested
still (until 'Touched'). Spike and Wes are quite alike in their
obsessiveness.
> This episode isn't perfect. That's one problem spot. It also continues to
> rub the same old sore of when Angel's going to do something about his
> situation. If we're supposed to think that Angel got his "self esteem" back
> here, then what the heck was the point of, "I'm Angel. I beat the bad guys,"
> in You're Welcome?
There's a difference between finding a purpose in your life, and
daring to talk to a pretty girl. A lot of people would say that baring
your heart is a lot more scary...
Also no one has mentioned Gunn re. the 'self esteem' - we see how
utterly his selfworth is tied to his new 'powers' and the risk of
losing them makes him falter.
mariposas rand mair fheal greykitten tomys des anges
> rub the same old sore of when Angel's going to do something about his
> situation. If we're supposed to think that Angel got his "self esteem" back
> here, then what the heck was the point of, "I'm Angel. I beat the bad guys,"
> in You're Welcome?
its a situation drama
to make it more episodic they have to mostly reset at the end of each episode
start each episode in nearly the same situation
chr...@removethistoreply.gwu.edu
>> Though I love this episode, Wesley's denseness about Fred in the early
>> parts kinda bothers me. He has been hyper-sensitive to anything
>> Fred-related for a while now, and he made a very thinly veiled declaration
>> of love to her at the end of Lineage; so his failure to see Fred starting
>> to respond was hard to swallow, no matter how much he may have been
>> distracted by work. Unless maybe Wesley wasn't honestly dense, but
>> deliberately acting dumb until Fred declared her feelings openly? Nah, I
>> can't convince myself of that. Oh, well, the payoff at the end was very
>> nice.
>
> It might be the biggest flaw of the episode; I'd hoped we were past
> laughing at Wesley for being so "amusingly" clueless about things.
> Past Buffyverse comedy episodes have been marred by character
> development that makes no sense (I'm still a little pissed about Pod-
> Willow, who's pretty much the main reason "Pangs" didn't get an
> Excellent). And here they manage to keep Angel totally recognizable
> as himself after turning him into a goddamn muppet, but then turn
> around and have problems with Wesley. I really want to love ST
> unreservedly, so next time I'll think about both your and Michael's
> explanations and try to make one of them fit.
Given a choice between the two explanations, I'd definitely pick
Michael's.
--Chris
______________________________________________________________________
chrisg [at] gwu.edu On the Internet, nobody knows I'm a dog.
Apteryx
news:12tuk2f...@news.supernews.com...
> This episode isn't perfect. That's one problem spot. It also continues
> to rub the same old sore of when Angel's going to do something about his
> situation. If we're supposed to think that Angel got his "self esteem"
> back here, then what the heck was the point of, "I'm Angel. I beat the bad
> guys," in You're Welcome?
It would be pretty unrealistic if Angel totally changed his pattern of
behaviour (as opposed to temporarily getting to try out the right kind of
attitudes) just because Cordy told him to. If that worked, we could solve
all out friends' problems just by giving them good advice.
Angel has been learning essential lessons (some of them very similar) in
every episode since Destiny. But he still needs a personal trauma or two to
get him out of the classroom and start putting those lessons into practice.
Fortunately, in a series by Joss 'Traumas-R-Us' Whedon, that shouldn't be a
problem.
--
Apteryx
Apteryx
Yep. Haven't forgotten your bizarre rating of BBB :)
--
Apteryx
One Bit Shy
> "One Bit Shy" <O...@nomail.sorry> wrote in message
> news:12tuk2f...@news.supernews.com...
>
>> This episode isn't perfect. That's one problem spot. It also continues
>> to rub the same old sore of when Angel's going to do something about his
>> situation. If we're supposed to think that Angel got his "self esteem"
>> back here, then what the heck was the point of, "I'm Angel. I beat the
>> bad guys," in You're Welcome?
>
> It would be pretty unrealistic if Angel totally changed his pattern of
> behaviour (as opposed to temporarily getting to try out the right kind of
> attitudes) just because Cordy told him to. If that worked, we could solve
> all out friends' problems just by giving them good advice.
It wasn't just because Cordy told him to. Lindsey had a hell of a lot to do
with it. And I didn't say anything about totally changing his pattern of
behaviour. I'd settle for anything. Hell, I'd even be OK with no movement
if the show didn't keep on creating constructs that show him deeply
affected. It's not my criticism that put Angel over Lindsey crowing about
how he's Angel. He beats the bad guys. The series put him there - and then
2 episodes later is talking about him needing self esteem.
> Angel has been learning essential lessons (some of them very similar) in
> every episode since Destiny. But he still needs a personal trauma or two
> to get him out of the classroom and start putting those lessons into
> practice. Fortunately, in a series by Joss 'Traumas-R-Us' Whedon, that
> shouldn't be a problem.
I'm sorry, but I'm not going to call a spade a shovel and pretend that makes
all the difference. It's 14 episodes into the season and we're still stuck
with Angel having made a bad deal, not knowing what to do about it, and, uh,
he's got personal problems - you know, the same ones he's had since S1. The
same messages are delivered and the same lessons learned repeatedly and then
forgotten. And it's not just Angel. What did Lorne get out of Life of the
Party? What did Wesley get out of Lineage? Those were serious traumas for
both of them, bringing into question their core beliefs. But did either
show even a hint of being affected by it after?
There's a lot I like about this season. I've rated 4 episodes Excellent so
far - successfully getting into the episodic swing I think - and will have
more coming. I think it will end up the highest rated season of the AtS run
on an episode by episode basis. And I know what's coming and have a fair
idea of the extent to which the season is redeemed by that.
But it doesn't change that to a very large degree the season has churned
through this point - most particularly with regards to how its characters
are treated. Episodic television does not preclude character growth. And
it definitely doesn't require messing with character continuity by making
them unaffected by the past. If anybody knows that, Joss does. He proved
it in early BtVS. And again in Firefly. A Wagon Train approach only makes
sense if the core is actually stable. So far this season we seem to have
been told over and over that the core *isn't* stable, yet we languish in the
same place two thirds of the way through the season. To me that's been the
biggest drag on the year.
OBS
(Harmony) Watcher
"Elisi" <eli...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1172228811.7...@v33g2000cwv.googlegroups.com...
It's the single most entertaining and funniest episode in all of BtVS and
AtS combined. Just remembering how Angel handled his removable nose and DB's
nasally congested dubbing, and then moments later "Aah! Ohh! No, Nina! Bad
Nina! Yaah!" cracks me up so hard!
And then later when puppet Angel hugged Fred at *puppet height*, it fills me
with envy :P
Even without the metaphorical layers, the episode is a riot.
--
==Harmony Watcher==
(Harmony) Watcher
"Michael Ikeda" <mmi...@erols.com> wrote in message
news:NKudnTzvubFntUPY...@rcn.net...> news:1172159584.3...@p10g2000cwp.googlegroups.com:
>
> > A reminder: Please avoid spoilers for later episodes in these
> > review threads.
> >
> >
> > Season Five, Episode 14: "Smile Time"
> > Writer: Ben Edlund; story by Edlund and Joss Whedon
> > Director: Ben Edlund
> >
>
> >
> >
> >
> > One-sentence summary: Full of courage and pluck.
> >
>
>
Any idea who (IRL) sang that tune for the show?
--
==Harmony Watcher==
Kermit
Your admirable restraint is duly noted.
Elisi
> "Elisi" <elis...@gmail.com> wrote in message
And this is why we all worship at the altar of Joss! :)
Clairel
> A reminder: Please avoid spoilers for later episodes in these review
> threads.
>
> Season Five, Episode 14: "Smile Time"
> Writer: Ben Edlund; story by Edlund and Joss Whedon
> Director: Ben Edlund
>
> but you know my thing about the pure-comedy episodes. Must be that
> pesky lack of anything involving a sense of humor.
>
> It's good to see Nina again, having liked the character in her first
> appearance. After an update on how she's adjusting to being some new-
> agey, moon-worshipping Wicca person, we flow into the basic romantic
> comedy that's the basis of the early parts of the show. It's pretty
> good as such things go. ("Well... of course, I-ahem- ignored it
> completely, changed the subject, and locked her in a cage." "Why are
> you yelling at me?") The only character who's really compromised
> during all this is Wesley, whom I don't particularly like being made
> into the butt of the drawn-out joke about people who're blind only to
> mystical spells meant to be funny, it's standard banter until the end
> of act one, and then...
>
> Hearing that Angel would be turned into a puppet is one thing, but
> actually seeing him as pure felt is something else. It's the kind of
> thing that leaves one's mind a little scrambled and not really knowing
> what to say. The jaw drops open and stays there for the next half-
> hour. One notices particular details as time goes by. His mouth
> seems perpetually fixed in a frowny-face, which is of course
> (for a puppet his size) black coat. Boreanaz's voice doesn't sound
> quite right all the time, which is particularly noticeable during the
> earlier scenes. I don't know whether that's just standard piped-in-
> the premise, we of course know that soon he'll have to meet Nina so
> they can see each other in bad conditions, and Spike so that mockery
> can abound, and both prospects sound predictable but good.
>
> Dissecting comedy is fruitless enough that I don't want to type very
> much about it, but the Angel/Spike sequence, despite being one joke,
> hits the viewer with it from several directions. Some people will
> like the usual rivalry between them, and some will be amused by the
> way Spike can't (or doesn't want to) keep himself from saying the
> obvious ("you're a bloody puppet!") or continuing to laugh throughout
> the scene. There'll be those who're swept up in the sight of a puppet
> launching itself across the room to beat on a grown person, and some
> will dig the fact that by the end of the fight, Angel appears to be
> winning. Thus, most viewers can be expected to at least crack a
> smile. This is also the point at which I first started registering
> the puppeteering involved. Until this sequence, I'd just taken it for
> granted that the Angel-puppet would be able to walk across the screen
> and interact with the actors in a normal manner. And indeed, it's
> shown leaping and fighting without any widely visible strings or
> anything. Big-time credit to the people who make that happen.
>
> Other than the really obvious metaphor for our hero's job, "Smile
> Time" generally doesn't try to shoehorn in much visible depth, so I
> there, just for a few minutes, is something with a very different tone
> that. I don't find it to not fit, despite what logic says - I
> actually think it's a very smart choice to sneak it in to an episode
> like this, where it can seem more subtle than it is. Gunn has some
> trouble with the legal-ese (to make it even more clever, this was
> actually introduced in passing last week), which is funny - "set forth
> in chapter 15 of the children's... TV thing! You turned my boss into
> a frickin' puppet!" He goes to get his implant looked at, and it
> turns out the Senior Partners meant it to happen. Which is so simple
> and clever that I can't say it even occurred to me. Give him a way to
> be a big cat and make a difference, let him and his friends come to
> depend on it, and then take it away. To what lengths will he be
> driven to avoid going _Flowers For Algernon_ on us? Gunn seems to
> think that there's a moral principle involved: "I don't make deals
> with people like you" (the dialogue at the end of this part with the
> "ignorant street muscle" bit is the only thing I'd change - too
> direct). He's next seen apparently humming along at full capacity.
> All right, Charles, you've officially moved from "we're watching
> closely" to "we're actively worried about whom you're becoming."
>
> I want to reference the delivery of the lines on the math news-cast,
> but can't find a paragraph to stick it in. That was funny. In fact
> (ah, here we go), there's a lot that's funny. Nothing I can do to
> convince anyone who disagrees; I'm limited to making the outright
> assertion that most of the show is hysterical, possibly the funniest
> and/or courage to conceive of this as an idea for an episode in the
> first place, and another to make it work. The only other thing I'd
> like to add there is that the spacing of the jokes is right. We get
> to know our hero as a puppet before he becomes a kung-fu fighting
> puppet. We wait to midway through the show, once those gags have
> started to run their course, to really introduce the rest of our cast
> of characters... including the one who communicates only by honking,
> like the old vaudeville-turned-children's-show standard. Literally
> every time Hornblower did what his name implies, Mrs. Quality started
> cracking up. Like clockwork. And then we wait until the very end to
> see our miniscule hero grab his broadsword and, best of all, go into
> cute little vamp-face. Damn, that's good stuff. I'm talking about
> whatever substances Joss and Ben were on, of course. But it also
> describes ST.
>
> Although there's an effective bit of action-movie drama worked in
> there during the final confrontation. Even though Wesley is being
> menaced by a giant puppet that gets shot and "bleeds" stuffing, seeing
> Fred torn between rushing to his aid and finishing the incantation,
> and managing some of each, could have been a perfectly good sequence
> even if it weren't also so damn amusing.
>
> Totally called Nina wolfing out in the middle of Angel's monologue,
> especially given what they were doing with the camera. On a snarky
> level, appreciating the fact that they avoid having to show us the
> costume. On a baser biological level, definitely appreciating the
> fact that we get to see so much of Nina - I've always liked looking at
> the actor, Jenny Molen, but hadn't realized under those outfits how
> nicely endowed she is (you know you were all thinking it). This
> relationship is, as others have already commented on in earlier
> episodes, a little bit at odds with how ATS has handled love stories
> before (although from "Tomorrow" on, we've been okay). Here Wesley
> very curtly brushes away Angel's worries related to the curse.
> Honestly, even if it clashes, it's an improvement - it's as obvious to
> me as to Wes that dating and sex do not equal true happiness,
> especially given that our hero has gotten pelvic since then without
> losing his soul. What happened with Buffy was brought on by a very
> particular set of circumstances and by the person Angel was then as
> opposed to now. Fittingly enough, we probably have Cordelia and
> "You're Welcome" to thank for Angel giving himself a chance to
> "deserve" a love life. I think I should be worried about how things
> will go just because Nina seems to be from another world, so "normal"
> next to him, but then of course I remember that she has to live in
> fantasy-land anyway. No more analysis for now, given that the episode
> ends with a breakfast date between a muppet and a werewolf. What can
> one say about that?
>
> Oh, and Wesley and Fred hook up too. Glad they finally went somewhere
> with this, and liked the choice of music for the kiss, but am largely
> indifferent. They're a cute enough couple, but the time when I
> would've particularly cared was two seasons ago.
>
> This Is Really Stupid But Caused Me To Have Difficulty Breathing For
> The Next Few Minutes moment(s):
> - "I'm gonna tear you a new puppet hole, bitch!"
>
> So...
>
> One-sentence summary: Full of courage and pluck.
>
> AOQ rating: Excellent
>
> 1) "Conviction" - Weak
> 2) "Just Rewards" - Good
> 3) "Unleashed" - Good
> 4) "Hell Bound" - Decent
> 5) "Life Of The Party" - Weak
> 6) "The Cautionary Tale Of Numero Cinco" - Decent
> 7) "Lineage" - Good
> 8) "Destiny" - Good
> 9) "Harm's Way" - Good
> 10) "Soul Purpose" - Good
> 11) "Damage" - Good
> 12) "You're Welcome" - Good
> 13) "Why We Fight" - Weak
> 14) "Smile Time" - Excellent]
--Ah, so this is what it took to get an "Excellent" out of you in
season 5, AOQ.. About time!
I love "Smile Time" as much as anybody else does; I just think there
were earlier s5 episodes that were just as high-quality and enjoyable
(in different ways--mostly more serious than "Smile Time"), and I also
think there are episodes of ME shows that are equally as comical and
laughable as "Smile Time." In fact "Smile Time" would probably be
number 3 or 4 on my list. "Storyteller," "Superstar," and "Spin The
Bottle," are higher up or as high as "Smile Time" on my list of
comical episodes.
Which is not a putdown of "Smile Time" at all. It's extremely well
done, and extremely funny. Glad you appreciated it, AOQ!
I do feel compelled to point out, though, that the comic genius of Ben
Edlund that was responsible for "Smile Time" was also responsible for
"Life of the Party." Which you did not appreciate.
Clairel
Arbitrar Of Quality
> I do feel compelled to point out, though, that the comic genius of Ben
> Edlund that was responsible for "Smile Time" was also responsible for
> "Life of the Party." Which you did not appreciate.
It's almost like a writer is capable of producing output nof varying
quality or something.
-AOQ
~I was wondering whether Ben could come up with something that would
impress me~
~~well, the wondering was confined to ATS, since I think he also wrote
"Jaynestown"~~
Clairel
wrote:
> On Feb 24, 8:57 pm, "Clairel" <relde...@usa.net> wrote:
>
> > I do feel compelled to point out, though, that the comic genius of Ben
> > Edlund that was responsible for "Smile Time" was also responsible for
> > "Life of the Party." Which you did not appreciate.
>
> It's almost like a writer is capable of producing output nof varying
> quality or something.
--Cut it out, man, I just can't wrap my mind around that concept!
Really, though, in my experience, whenever Ben Edlund tries to be
funny, he IS funny. (Not that I'm saying "Life of the Party" is as
funny as "Smile Time"--hey, some Tick stories were funnier than
others, too.)
AOQ, I really wish you would disclose whether you were ever a "Tick"
fan. It matters a lot, in appreciating Edlundesque humor.
Also wanted to say that for some reason I left "Carpe Noctem" out of
my list of funniest ME episodes; it's way up there for me, alongside
"Storyteller," "Superstar," Spin The Bottle," and "Smile Time."
Clairel
Arbitrar Of Quality
> AOQ, I really wish you would disclose whether you were ever a "Tick"
> fan. It matters a lot, in appreciating Edlundesque humor.
No, I'm not familiar with _The Tick_ in any incarnation. Except for
one time years ago that I watched five minutes of the cartoon while
channel-surfing; the only reactions I remember having are "this show
is weird" and "why is that guy dressed as a rabbit?"
But speaking of whom, the staff at Onion's AV Club are apparently huge
BTVS fans since the show makes it onto their lists practially every
week. This week both Willow and Aurthur are listed as sidekicks
who're cooler than the heroes.
http://www.avclub.com/content/node/59017
-AOQ
Clairel
> On Feb 26, 4:43 pm, "Clairel" <relde...@usa.net> wrote:
>
> > AOQ, I really wish you would disclose whether you were ever a "Tick"
> > fan. It matters a lot, in appreciating Edlundesque humor.
>
> No, I'm not familiar with _The Tick_ in any incarnation. Except for
> one time years ago that I watched five minutes of the cartoon while
> channel-surfing; the only reactions I remember having are "this show
> is weird" and "why is that guy dressed as a rabbit?"
--Hmm, well, the TV cartoon was never my favorite "Tick." I liked
best the live-action TV show with Patrick Warburton, and next to that
I liked the "Tick" comic books. AOQ, I think you would like the live-
action TV "Tick," which is available cheaply on DVD now.
> But speaking of whom, the staff at Onion's AV Club are apparently huge
> BTVS fans since the show makes it onto their lists practially every
> week. This week both Willow and Aurthur are listed as sidekicks
> who're cooler than the heroes.http://www.avclub.com/content/node/59017
--Thanks for the link. Very amusing.
Clairel