AOQ Angel Review 2-3: "First Impressions"
Arbitrar Of Quality
episodes in these review threads.
ANGEL
Season Two, Episode 3: "First Impressions"
(or "I dream of Darla")
Writer: Shawn Ryan
Director: James A. Contner
The Host (I think that's his only name) gives us another performance,
and suggests that Angel has done the same while we weren't looking.
Which sets up a dance between Angel and Darla, which sets up the reveal
that it's a dream, which we've probably more or less figured out,
except that they've muddied the waters a little with the talk of
secretly meeting and such. An intriguing way to start, given that like
many of you, I'm a sucker for most things with Darla in them.
For better or for worse, ATS has developed its own style of humor
compared to BTVS. Sometimes you don't get the rapid-fire wordplay
exchanges of the parent show. ATS likes to put its characters in
awkward situations, as we see with the nude attack and the pink helmet
jokes, but it also sometimes tends towards more meandering
conversations with a lot of repetition for comedic effect. I feel like
FI is hitting with the ATS-style humor again, in a way that
"Judgment" utterly failed to do. That, more than anything else,
makes me feel like we may finally be ready to get this season off the
ground. The first scene in the hotel lobby would be the example I'd
use if I were trying to describe what this series does with banter.
"Sleeping? It's 3:30 in the afternoon. I've been up since dawn!"
"Sort of missing the whole 'creature of the night' angle, isn't he?"
And then David repeats the line, and they just kinda stare at him.
That kind of thing. Also, let me mention Denisof's delivery and
facial expression on "very little [offense] taken." And a little
later, the discussion about Denzel Washington that just keeps going,
and staying pretty smile-worthy throughout.
The early confrontation in the parking garage made me notice for the
first time that Richards is even taller than Boreanaz. The ensuing
fight shows our heroes a bit off their game, but keeps it subtle. I
liked Cordelia's lurching missed staking early on; she ends up making
a killing eventually. I keep kinda wanting her to do stuff like that
all the time (the fact that she's the only female in the core cast
probably has something to do with it), even though I do know that the
action-hero thing isn't really in the character's nature. Also, an
unusual and cool transition as we see them struggling with a fight
that's dragging on, then cut to a few minutes later and the piles of
dust.
I guess that sequence also exists to establish that Angel's
Darladreams aren't just good dirty fun. The rest of the show has two
of them wearing as little clothing as possible (yet another reason
Darla is more fun to watch in modern times than in the era of full-body
dresses), and her repeated suggestions that he should ignore the
outside world, stop with the constant heroics, and let her take care of
him. The mechanism for these dreams isn't really explained, but we
know they've always had a connection, and can also speculate over
whether the Raising imbued any new abilities. What's also odd and
potentially interesting is that Angel sees her as someone to ask for
forgiveness, at least in the dream. Why does souled Angel view Darla
either romantically or as a savior, given that he's never known her
as anything other than evil? And while we're asking rhetorical
questions that could be answered by future episodes, what's up with
that last scene? Anyway, sexy stuff, and the show clearly sets it up
as something ongoing, wrong, and somehow dangerous (the
almost-killing-Wesley thing helps with the dangerous part too).
With Angel out of the picture and Wesley's phone all smashed up,
it's up to Cordelia to go after Gunn once she has a vision of him. I
don't like the way Carpenter plays post-vision pain very much, with
those little groans. On the plus side, I enjoyed the bit in which,
having no one to turn to, she decides to do things herself, grabbing
her Girly Axe and heading off with a bold call of "okay, I'm gonna
die." Heh.
That leads into the worst moment of the show for me, which is Cordy
interrupting the obvious training session. Anyone not realize
immediately that they were sparring? That and the somewhat lame
carjacking are just the lame devices used, though, to saddle Charles
with his unwanted sidekick. I was into the interactions between them.
It's standard buddy-movie stuff, sure, but it's done well, and I
think the actors have good screen chemistry. And the two characters
can both be sarcastic about different things in a complementary way, so
the show can use them to mock each others' excesses.
On the rare occasions when I've cared enough to analyze Gunn's
character, I've centered on him as a mirror of Angel; to me the two
are similar in many ways, from the self-appointed protector thing down
to the details like punching walls when unable to repress their
frustration. FI highlights some of the differences between the
characters, too, especially when showing Gunn's organization. He
surrounds himself with people and truly takes over his neighborhood,
with intimidation being one of his modi operandi. He's on a power
trip, I think. And as we already knew, he's in love with being at
war.
The "working girl" scene wasn't that funny to me, but it's what
I've come to expect - she thinks it, she says it. Also, why are
there always token white people mixed in with Gunn's crowd, even
outside the vampire-fighting group? I don't know if L.A. is like
this, but based on my limited experience, it seems strange.
Okay, another thing: where does this medical knowledge of Cordelia's
come from? It just occurred to me to wonder that. She's been the
field medic of the group throughout the entire run of ATS, but I have
no idea where she learned her stuff. In any event, though, having her
tend to Veronica is a way to help make her useful during the fight at
Gunn's without magically becoming too much of a fighter.
I mentioned both of the biggest TIRSBILA sequences, both involving
Angel and Wesley, but let me bring up the motorcycle helmet again, and
Angel's quiet but concerted attempts to get out of wearing it,
because it's funny. As is the followup with him using it as a
weapon. The moment where he head-butts the disguised vampire is nicely
surprising, and the last fight scene, despite the bland villain, is a
good bit of fun, especially the final use of the Girly Axe as it was
meant to be swung. Lots of fun scenes that're well set up this week.
Other than moving things along with Darla, this episode is pretty much
about setting the stage with Cordelia and Gunn; she's picked him up
as her project now, deciding that he needs saving. I'm not so sure
about the attempts at serious stuff, but their last scene together does
at least keep us on our toes by sliding in and out of flippancy. And I
like how at the end they're both trying not to smile too deeply or
obviously. Well, given that Cordelia has recently demonstrated an
uncanny ability to grow on people, even those who may have loathed her
in the past. I'm sure it won't take long to do the same for her new
friend.
Just to mention it, based on my half-remembered watching a few minutes
of a random _Angel_ rerun awhile before starting this gig, V'z cerggl
fher gung Puneyrf naq bhe frre ner tbvat gb ubbx hc, cebonoyl snveyl
fbba. Guvf rcvfbqr vf n tbbq fgneg, vs gung'f vaqrrq jurer gur
fubj'f tbvat.
So...
One-sentence summary: Pleasant.
AOQ rating: Good
[Season Two so far:
1) "Judgment" - Weak
2) "Are You Now Or Have You Ever Been?" - Decent
3) "First Impressions" - Good]
Don Sample
"Arbitrar Of Quality" <tsm...@wildmail.com> wrote:
> A reminder: Please avoid spoilers for future _Buffy_ and _Angel_
> episodes in these review threads.
>
>
> ANGEL
> Season Two, Episode 3: "First Impressions"
> (or "I dream of Darla")
> Writer: Shawn Ryan
> Director: James A. Contner
>
>
> So...
>
> One-sentence summary: Pleasant.
>
> AOQ rating: Good
My impression of this episode is that it was pretty much completely
forgettable, in that I have pretty much completely forgotten it. It
wasn't until about half way through your review that I started thinking
"Oh, yeah, I kinda remember that bit" (Like the pink helmet, and the
Denzel discussion) I kinda remember a couple of other bits, but I still
can't recall what the actual plot of the episode was, or how the bits
that I do remember fit together.
--
Quando omni flunkus moritati
Visit the Buffy Body Count at <http://homepage.mac.com/dsample/>
Apteryx
news:1149655194.1...@i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>A reminder: Please avoid spoilers for future _Buffy_ and _Angel_
> episodes in these review threads.
>
>
> and suggests that Angel has done the same while we weren't looking.
> Which sets up a dance between Angel and Darla, which sets up the reveal
> that it's a dream, which we've probably more or less figured out,
> except that they've muddied the waters a little with the talk of
> secretly meeting and such. An intriguing way to start, given that like
> many of you, I'm a sucker for most things with Darla in them.
I can definitely endorse Don's comment on the episode being forgettable. I
rewatched it just yesterday, but I was sitting here waiting for your review,
trying to remember what it had been about :) But I did remember Darla.
> ground. The first scene in the hotel lobby would be the example I'd
> use if I were trying to describe what this series does with banter.
> "Sleeping? It's 3:30 in the afternoon. I've been up since dawn!"
> "Sort of missing the whole 'creature of the night' angle, isn't he?"
> And then David repeats the line, and they just kinda stare at him.
Of course, since so much of the substance in this episode is with the
dreams, the fact that Angel is sleeping (perhaps a bit more than usual,
since he is often about in the afternoon) is material.
> I guess that sequence also exists to establish that Angel's
> Darladreams aren't just good dirty fun. The rest of the show has two
> of them wearing as little clothing as possible (yet another reason
> Darla is more fun to watch in modern times than in the era of full-body
> dresses), and her repeated suggestions that he should ignore the
> outside world, stop with the constant heroics, and let her take care of
> him. The mechanism for these dreams isn't really explained, but we
> know they've always had a connection, and can also speculate over
> whether the Raising imbued any new abilities. What's also odd and
> potentially interesting is that Angel sees her as someone to ask for
> forgiveness, at least in the dream. Why does souled Angel view Darla
> either romantically or as a savior, given that he's never known her
> as anything other than evil?
Morals can get more flexible in dreams than in waking life.
> With Angel out of the picture and Wesley's phone all smashed up,
> it's up to Cordelia to go after Gunn once she has a vision of him. I
> don't like the way Carpenter plays post-vision pain very much, with
> those little groans. On the plus side, I enjoyed the bit in which,
> having no one to turn to, she decides to do things herself, grabbing
> her Girly Axe and heading off with a bold call of "okay, I'm gonna
> die." Heh.
AoQ liking Cordelia? That's some journey in itself :)
>
> The "working girl" scene wasn't that funny to me, but it's what
> I've come to expect - she thinks it, she says it.
Ah, OK - just not when she's still being Cordelia :)
> I mentioned both of the biggest TIRSBILA sequences, both involving
> Angel and Wesley, but let me bring up the motorcycle helmet again, and
> Angel's quiet but concerted attempts to get out of wearing it,
> because it's funny.
Yep. After Darla, that would be the highlight for me.
>
> One-sentence summary: Pleasant.
>
> AOQ rating: Good
I'd agree with the summary, but can't quite agree with the rating. Obviously
something with that much Darla in it can't be too bad, but I wouldn't go
further than a good Decent. For me its the 56th best AtS episode (so best of
the bottom half of the table), 20th best in season 2. That may seem like I
don't like it, but actually my rating is a bit better than for The
Replacement in BtVS 5, despite the latter being much higher amongst episodes
in its season than FI is in its. I think the rating I gave it would make it
better than 20th in any other season of the Buffyverse that had 20 episodes,
but for me AtS 2 has a shortage of bad episodes (well maybe there's one), so
reasonably good ones have to fill places 20 and 21.
--
Apteryx
lili...@gmail.com
then again, I love Gunn in general. Fave Angel-character really. I just
love the way JAR plays him, makes him human in a way that just works.
He's very much the Xander of this show, only unlike Xander on Buffy,
Gunn has actually worked at his skills, he's not just accepted, oh I'm
human so that's all I can be, Gunn isn't like that. He's not a slacker,
he's got skills and he's worked at them. He's made himself a better
fighter than he ought to be.
And I love him for that (and many other things)
Well that and the fact that JAR is plain out hot ;-)
Lore
mariposas rand mair fheal greykitten tomys des anges
lili...@gmail.com wrote:
> You know, I remember the Gunn parts of this and that I loved them. But
> then again, I love Gunn in general. Fave Angel-character really. I just
> love the way JAR plays him, makes him human in a way that just works.
>
> He's very much the Xander of this show, only unlike Xander on Buffy,
> Gunn has actually worked at his skills, he's not just accepted, oh I'm
> human so that's all I can be, Gunn isn't like that. He's not a slacker,
> he's got skills and he's worked at them. He's made himself a better
> fighter than he ought to be.
> And I love him for that (and many other things)
the moon is brighter at night than during the day
with willow the witch and buffy the slyaer and giles the ripper
and riley the universal soldier
even a guy who has clocked as much field time as xander
is going to look weak and puny
gunn has only one broody vampire to outshine
arf meow arf - nsa fodder
ny dnrqn greebevfz ahpyrne obzo vena gnyvona ovt oebgure
if you meet buddha on the usenet killfile him
lili...@gmail.com
Xander is looking in one of Giles books and reads what it says and it
flames up. With Giles saying="Xander don't speak latin in front of the
books"
Sure that book could have been extremely volatile, but if it were, why
was Giles letting Xander mess with it to begin with...
Xander could very well have potential for magic, but he never did
anything with it.
Xander could have learned how to fight, but he barely bothered to learn
what he needed and ignores any fightingskills otherwise.
Sure, Giles was never as interested in Xander's skills as he was in
Buffy's, but if Xander had really wanted to, he could have bugged Giles
till the guy did teach him some things. Hell, he could ask Riley for
training.
He lets any soldier training he remembers from the halloween ep just
slip away, never bothering to use the knowledge he got magically to
learn about that kind of thing for real.
The only reason Xander didn't become more powerful, is because he never
bothered to learn anything to make himself more useful and powerful.
Now I like Xander (most of the time), but the fact remains that when it
comes down to it, he had a lot of potential, only he never ever
bothered to explore it. Might have been because he didn't think he'd
ever get as good as the others so it wasn't worth to even try it.
(jryy gung naq zrgnjvfr gung Wbff naq gur jevgref jrer arire nf
vagrerfgrq va Knaqre nf gurl jrer va Jvyybj)
Now Xander does have a tendency towards insecurity and selfdeprecation.
Which probably didn't help him in trying to improve himself, but that
still doesn't take away his own responsibility. It's not Buffy's duty
to make Xander train, or Willow's duty to force Xander into learning
about magic, it was Xander's and he was very much a slacker in that
regards.
Well Xander and Giles', but then again, Giles was preoccupied.
And yes, Xander did have to worry about a fulltime job, but that job
didn't happen until s4, he had plenty of free time during highschool to
try and learn, esp. since he mostly failed highschool for the same
reason that he failed becoming a better fighter. A lack of effort and
thinking too low of himself. (he would have almost given up his job in
'the replacement' because he just doesn't realize how good he is at it)
Whfg ybbx ng Knaqre'f wbo, jvguva sbhe lrnef ur orpbzrf sberzna, gung'f
sbhe lrnef gb orpbzr gur obff ng n wbo gung npghnyyl erdhverf zngu.
(whfg ybbx ng gur snpg gung ur unf gb tb gb zrrgvatf naq unf gb unaqyr
gur nepuvgrpgf cynaf)
Vs lbh'er fghcvq, lbh qba'g trg gung uvtu n cbfvgvba, rfc. va n wbo
gung bppnfvbanyyl erdhverf lbh gb jrne fhvgf gb jbex.
It's not that he lacks the intelligence, he just lacks the drive.
Though I will admit, Gunn probably wouldn't have gotten half as good as
he did, if his and his sister's life hadn't depended on it. That alone
would have made anyone see training as an essential part of life*eg*
Lore
jil...@hotmail.com
Arbitrar Of Quality wrote:
> A reminder: Please avoid spoilers for future _Buffy_ and _Angel_
> episodes in these review threads.
> of a random _Angel_ rerun awhile before starting this gig, V'z cerggl
> fher gung Puneyrf naq bhe frre ner tbvat gb ubbx hc, cebonoyl snveyl
> fbba. Guvf rcvfbqr vf n tbbq fgneg, vs gung'f vaqrrq jurer gur
> fubj'f tbvat.
But... but that comment almost deserves to be un Rot-13'ed!
Although, now you've got me curious. I did manage to miss some of
Season 2 and 3. Consequently, when you hit that random episode you
mention where a certain pairing seems to be happening, can you make
much of it for me?
About your comment on Cordy's reactions to her visions... eh-heh. I
may not spoil anything for you. It's SO, SO hard not to, either.
*hugs*
gree...@gmail.com
Arbitrar Of Quality wrote:
> I feel like
> FI is hitting with the ATS-style humor again, in a way that
> "Judgment" utterly failed to do. That, more than anything else,
> makes me feel like we may finally be ready to get this season off the
> ground.
I'm pretty much in awe that this episode makes you think season two is
finally getting off the ground.
> AOQ rating: Good
This episode is fine, but it always seemed to me like it was an episode
of some entirely other series featuring _Angel_'s actors in guest
roles. V fhfcrpg gur bevtvany vagrag bs gur rcvfbqr jnf gb sbepr fbzr
Knaqre/Pbeql-yvxr eryngvbafuvc orgjrra Pbeql naq Thaa, naq gung jnf
jvfryl avkrq nf gur frnfba jrag ba. Nf n erfhyg, ng gur raq bs gur qnl,
gur 'N' fgbel znggref abg ng nyy gb guvf frnfba be guvf frevrf. As for
the 'B' story, yeah, NakedDarla is a good thing, but it also means more
NakedAngel. I can live without that.
Terry
kenm47
Agreed. But upon rewatching there was the Darla stuff. Just trying so
very hard to "integrate" Gunn into AI. All in all, itwas OK, but
Cordy's attachment/allegiance to Gunn seemed forced to me then and now.
Also, too much "Host" in the opening dream sequence.
Also, a need to turn them more into a fighting "team," with Cordy
actually staking one of the vamos in the garage.
BTW, I don't think that "party" was integrated before Cordy arrived.
The one female shown looked to me to be light skinned, but not
necessarily Caucasian.
I can live with Decent(+) or Good(-).
Ken (Brooklyn)
Horace LaBadie
"Arbitrar Of Quality" <tsm...@wildmail.com> wrote:
> The Host (I think that's his only name)
It's not important.
Slartibartfast.
HWL
One Bit Shy
news:1149655194.1...@i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> ANGEL
> Season Two, Episode 3: "First Impressions"
> For better or for worse, ATS has developed its own style of humor
> compared to BTVS. Sometimes you don't get the rapid-fire wordplay
> exchanges of the parent show. ATS likes to put its characters in
> awkward situations, as we see with the nude attack and the pink helmet
> jokes, but it also sometimes tends towards more meandering
> conversations with a lot of repetition for comedic effect. I feel like
> FI is hitting with the ATS-style humor again, in a way that
> "Judgment" utterly failed to do.
Maybe that explains a big part of my reaction to this episode. I thought
the dialogue was mostly pretty weak - in all sorts of situations. (In fact,
just in general, I'm coming to the conclusion that though the show has a
generally talented group of writers, they don't really have a flair for the
language of the big city underbelly. Since they don't seem to want to go a
Homicide direction, maybe they need to read up on their Mickey Spillane. Or
something.) But, oddly, I didn't really care that much about the words.
The idea was often good enough. Like Cordy and Gunn bickering. The
situation and their chemistry got the idea across just fine, so I enjoyed
their scenes even though the words were often less than electric. (Though
moment of dumb enjoyment for "pigeon stool".)
> And a little
> later, the discussion about Denzel Washington that just keeps going,
> and staying pretty smile-worthy throughout.
I thought Cordy and Gunn's lead-in to that sequence was about as forced as
you can get. But the payoff is classic Angel. (Who I think secretly
delights in misdirected conversations. I think maybe that's the entire
reason for his deadpan delivery - what he really spent his 90 years of
solitude working on. Who doesn't love Denzel indeed!)
> The early confrontation in the parking garage made me notice for the
> first time that Richards is even taller than Boreanaz. The ensuing
> fight shows our heroes a bit off their game, but keeps it subtle. I
> liked Cordelia's lurching missed staking early on; she ends up making
> a killing eventually. I keep kinda wanting her to do stuff like that
> all the time (the fact that she's the only female in the core cast
> probably has something to do with it), even though I do know that the
> action-hero thing isn't really in the character's nature. Also, an
> unusual and cool transition as we see them struggling with a fight
> that's dragging on, then cut to a few minutes later and the piles of
> dust.
All three of the show's fights seemed muddled to me, and the clear lowlights
of the episode. To each their own I guess. But I did like the follow-up of
the weary fighters. Angel not being able to lift his arm and so on. I
think it did it's job of showing something off with Angel - and showing Gunn
a bit out of control. Again, more from context than from actual dialogue.
I'm not sure Gunn's words in his entire career with Angel thus far bear much
scrutiny. I get the impression that he's still being built out of cliches,
though acquiring a kind of personality in spite of it.
> I guess that sequence also exists to establish that Angel's
> Darladreams aren't just good dirty fun. The rest of the show has two
> of them wearing as little clothing as possible (yet another reason
> Darla is more fun to watch in modern times than in the era of full-body
> dresses),
Well, yes, but there's still something to be said for bodices and heaving
bosoms.
> and her repeated suggestions that he should ignore the
> outside world, stop with the constant heroics, and let her take care of
> him.
The best part of the episode for me is when Darla greeted Angel at the end
with, "Honey, you're home." It was like we had returned to the days of The
Donna Reed Show or something. Is this Angel's dream of married life?
Darla: You take care of so many people. - But who takes care of you?
Angel: You do.
I know that Darla is genuinely sultry and seductive here, but the whole
scene gives me the giggles. Angel is such a sentimental fool.
> The mechanism for these dreams isn't really explained, but we
> know they've always had a connection, and can also speculate over
> whether the Raising imbued any new abilities.
The dreams do appear to be Darla directed somehow - not just leakage from
her proximity like we had seen in Somnambulist. And it looks like she's
physically in the room with him in the last scene.
> What's also odd and
> potentially interesting is that Angel sees her as someone to ask for
> forgiveness, at least in the dream. Why does souled Angel view Darla
> either romantically or as a savior, given that he's never known her
> as anything other than evil?
I think fun and sex are their own motivations, and he knows Darla for that
too.
> And while we're asking rhetorical
> questions that could be answered by future episodes, what's up with
> that last scene? Anyway, sexy stuff, and the show clearly sets it up
> as something ongoing, wrong, and somehow dangerous (the
> almost-killing-Wesley thing helps with the dangerous part too).
Wesley banging on the coffin. Heh. I'm a sucker for dream images.
Speaking of which, the best visual shot of the show was, IMO, Angel and
Darla moonbathing. The idea of mmonbathing alone is pretty cool. But the
way the shadows fell on Angel also gave him a Charles Atlas body building
kind of look. Very odd.
> With Angel out of the picture and Wesley's phone all smashed up,
> it's up to Cordelia to go after Gunn once she has a vision of him. I
> don't like the way Carpenter plays post-vision pain very much, with
> those little groans.
Ever since she faked it that one time I keep expecting her to eye us from
behind her hand again to see if we're buying it.
> On the plus side, I enjoyed the bit in which,
> having no one to turn to, she decides to do things herself, grabbing
> her Girly Axe and heading off with a bold call of "okay, I'm gonna
> die." Heh.
That moment worked very well for me. First I was idly thinking about how
people in her world keep battle axes lying around. Then, when she delivered
her line, I was reminded of the classic, "It's a good day to die." And
suddenly that old phrase worked differently and way better than it ever had
for me before... Which is probably greater tribute than this scene
deserves, but hey, I can't help where my mind wanders sometimes.
> Okay, another thing: where does this medical knowledge of Cordelia's
> come from? It just occurred to me to wonder that. She's been the
> field medic of the group throughout the entire run of ATS, but I have
> no idea where she learned her stuff. In any event, though, having her
> tend to Veronica is a way to help make her useful during the fight at
> Gunn's without magically becoming too much of a fighter.
It's more than that. Gunn really owes her a debt now. It's what makes her
count in his eyes - forces him to pay attention to her.
I was wondering about Cordelia's medical expertise too. I don't think it's
really explained, but I do note that she's been around a lot of medical
situations. Most especially her own near death in Lovers Walk. Maybe she's
just developed a side interest in it? Though I suspect the message being
passed isn't intended to be expertise as much as it is caring - the
consequence of the last season finale.
> I mentioned both of the biggest TIRSBILA sequences, both involving
> Angel and Wesley, but let me bring up the motorcycle helmet again, and
> Angel's quiet but concerted attempts to get out of wearing it,
> because it's funny. As is the followup with him using it as a
> weapon. The moment where he head-butts the disguised vampire is nicely
> surprising, and the last fight scene, despite the bland villain, is a
> good bit of fun, especially the final use of the Girly Axe as it was
> meant to be swung. Lots of fun scenes that're well set up this week.
Honestly, I didn't like any of those - least of all the axe. Different
tastes again... I do recognize that the helmet bit is true to Angel's
character. I just didn't find it funny - or the helmet all that silly
looking.
> Other than moving things along with Darla, this episode is pretty much
> about setting the stage with Cordelia and Gunn; she's picked him up
> as her project now, deciding that he needs saving. I'm not so sure
> about the attempts at serious stuff, but their last scene together does
> at least keep us on our toes by sliding in and out of flippancy. And I
> like how at the end they're both trying not to smile too deeply or
> obviously. Well, given that Cordelia has recently demonstrated an
> uncanny ability to grow on people, even those who may have loathed her
> in the past. I'm sure it won't take long to do the same for her new
> friend.
"Helping people that's what me and my friends do." That line and Cordy's
delivery of it was genuinely touching to me. I think that's the first time
that her personality change has really come home to me. Off course
immediately followed by barking at Gunn for that thank you, just to show
that old Cordy is still around.
> So...
>
> One-sentence summary: Pleasant.
>
> AOQ rating: Good
There's some nice character development here and some good Darla dreams.
Made it a pleasant experience as you say. But there's essentially nothing
to the story, little memorable about the dialogue, and lousy action.
Doesn't make it above Decent for me.
OBS
Now next episode I'm counting on you for a great review, 'cause my scratched
up disk is only letting me see the first 10 minutes of the episode. Don't
feel pressured or anything.
Jeff Jacoby
[snip]
> The only reason Xander didn't become more powerful, is because he never
> bothered to learn anything to make himself more useful and powerful.
Pbzcner ubj gurl ner ng gur raq bs gurve erfcrpgvir frevrf. Knaqre
vf pbzsbegnoyr jvgu orvat gur beqvanel thl, urycvat bhg ubjrire ur
pna. Thaa vf shyy bs vafrphevgl, abg jnagvat gb or whfg gur "zhfpyr",
naq arneyl orttvat sbe gur rivy oenva hctenqr.
Knaqre'f encvq nfprafvba va gur ohvyqvat genqrf vf orlbaq oryvrs!
(Znlor ur ernyyl qbrf unir fbzr xvaq bs fhcre-cbjre nsgrenyy)
> It's not that he lacks the intelligence, he just lacks the drive.
>
> Though I will admit, Gunn probably wouldn't have gotten half as good as
> he did, if his and his sister's life hadn't depended on it. That alone
> would have made anyone see training as an essential part of life*eg*
Jeff
Mike Zeares
Arbitrar Of Quality wrote:
> The Host (I think that's his only name) gives us another performance,
> and suggests that Angel has done the same while we weren't looking.
> Which sets up a dance between Angel and Darla, which sets up the reveal
> that it's a dream, which we've probably more or less figured out,
> except that they've muddied the waters a little with the talk of
> secretly meeting and such. An intriguing way to start, given that like
> many of you, I'm a sucker for most things with Darla in them.
Me too. You liked this ep a lot more than I ever have -- I usually ff
through the Gunn scenes in order to get to the Darla-y goodness. Mmmm,
Darla....
> I guess that sequence also exists to establish that Angel's
> Darladreams aren't just good dirty fun.
Nope. They are also bad, wicked, naughty, evil fun.
> And while we're asking rhetorical
> questions that could be answered by future episodes, what's up with
> that last scene?
I think it was just to make the audience go, "ZOMG! She's there for
reals!!1!" At least, that was my first reaction to it.
-- Mike Zeares
Don Sample
Jeff Jacoby <jja...@not.real.com> wrote:
> On 7 Jun 2006 03:25:56 -0700, lili...@gmail.com <lili...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> [snip]
> > Whfg ybbx ng Knaqre'f wbo, jvguva sbhe lrnef ur orpbzrf sberzna, gung'f
> > sbhe lrnef gb orpbzr gur obff ng n wbo gung npghnyyl erdhverf zngu.
> > (whfg ybbx ng gur snpg gung ur unf gb tb gb zrrgvatf naq unf gb unaqyr
> > gur nepuvgrpgf cynaf)
> > Vs lbh'er fghcvq, lbh qba'g trg gung uvtu n cbfvgvba, rfc. va n wbo
> > gung bppnfvbanyyl erdhverf lbh gb jrne fhvgf gb jbex.
>
> Knaqre'f encvq nfprafvba va gur ohvyqvat genqrf vf orlbaq oryvrs!
> (Znlor ur ernyyl qbrf unir fbzr xvaq bs fhcre-cbjre nsgrenyy)
Yvxr va n jne mbar, cebzbgvbaf pna pbzr dhvpxyl va Fhaalqnyr nf gur
crbcyr nobir lbh trg rngra.
George W Harris
wrote:
:The
:situation and their chemistry got the idea across just fine, so I enjoyed
:their scenes even though the words were often less than electric. (Though
:moment of dumb enjoyment for "pigeon stool".)
Although the humorous impact was somewhat
dissipated by the fact that Cordy isn't a recent immigrant
from Eastern Europe. I mean, sure they want to
emphasize the fish-out-of-water aspects of Cordy in
Gunn's world, but who doesn't know the term?
:Well, yes, but there's still something to be said for bodices and heaving
:bosoms.
And Darla is an Olympic-class bosom heaver.
:Speaking of which, the best visual shot of the show was, IMO, Angel and
:Darla moonbathing. The idea of mmonbathing alone is pretty cool. But the
:way the shadows fell on Angel also gave him a Charles Atlas body building
:kind of look. Very odd.
:
There's a Charles Addams (to stocik with the
Charles A motif) cartoon of, I believe, Uncle Fester (or
his precursor) moonbathing; I believe he's growing a
mushroom.
:Honestly, I didn't like any of those - least of all the axe. Different
:tastes again... I do recognize that the helmet bit is true to Angel's
:character. I just didn't find it funny - or the helmet all that silly
:looking.
It brought to mind the old Japanese series
"Dynaman" with the character Dyna Pink, in it's
humorously redubbed incarnation on USA's Night
Flight back in the '80s; that was enough to raise a
smile.
--
Real men don't need macho posturing to bolster their egos.
George W. Harris For actual email address, replace each 'u' with an 'i'.
Arbitrar Of Quality
lili...@gmail.com wrote:
> Xander could very well have potential for magic, but he never did
> anything with it.
> Xander could have learned how to fight, but he barely bothered to learn
> what he needed and ignores any fightingskills otherwise.
> Sure, Giles was never as interested in Xander's skills as he was in
> Buffy's, but if Xander had really wanted to, he could have bugged Giles
> till the guy did teach him some things. Hell, he could ask Riley for
> training.
>
> He lets any soldier training he remembers from the halloween ep just
> slip away, never bothering to use the knowledge he got magically to
> learn about that kind of thing for real.
>
> The only reason Xander didn't become more powerful, is because he never
> bothered to learn anything to make himself more useful and powerful.
>
> Now I like Xander (most of the time), but the fact remains that when it
> comes down to it, he had a lot of potential, only he never ever
> bothered to explore it.
> It's not that he lacks the intelligence, he just lacks the drive.
That's a good argument, and one I mostly agree with. What I'm trying
to reconcile is that lack of dedication to self-improvement with the
obsession with "protecting" Buffy, especially in late S2. His logic
does not resemble Earth logic, maybe.
-AOQ
Arbitrar Of Quality
Fjords are cooler than karaeoke.
-AOQ
Arbitrar Of Quality
One Bit Shy wrote:
> Maybe that explains a big part of my reaction to this episode. I thought
> the dialogue was mostly pretty weak - in all sorts of situations. (In fact,
> just in general, I'm coming to the conclusion that though the show has a
> generally talented group of writers, they don't really have a flair for the
> language of the big city underbelly. Since they don't seem to want to go a
> Homicide direction, maybe they need to read up on their Mickey Spillane. Or
> something.) But, oddly, I didn't really care that much about the words.
> The idea was often good enough. Like Cordy and Gunn bickering. The
> situation and their chemistry got the idea across just fine, so I enjoyed
> their scenes even though the words were often less than electric. (Though
> moment of dumb enjoyment for "pigeon stool".)
I feel like the actors seem comfortable again. Back to the level that
they'd reached by late S1 (and that the BTVS cast had almost from day
one).
> Again, more from context than from actual dialogue.
> I'm not sure Gunn's words in his entire career with Angel thus far bear much
> scrutiny. I get the impression that he's still being built out of cliches,
> though acquiring a kind of personality in spite of it.
Heh. I think I could agree with that. He doesn't seem to be a very
popular character, although there're a few dissenters.
> Speaking of which, the best visual shot of the show was, IMO, Angel and
> Darla moonbathing. The idea of mmonbathing alone is pretty cool. But the
> way the shadows fell on Angel also gave him a Charles Atlas body building
> kind of look.
I remember it as a daylight dream. Should I feel dumb?
> > Okay, another thing: where does this medical knowledge of Cordelia's
> > come from? It just occurred to me to wonder that. She's been the
> > field medic of the group throughout the entire run of ATS, but I have
> > no idea where she learned her stuff.
>
> I was wondering about Cordelia's medical expertise too. I don't think it's
> really explained, but I do note that she's been around a lot of medical
> situations. Most especially her own near death in Lovers Walk. Maybe she's
> just developed a side interest in it? Though I suspect the message being
> passed isn't intended to be expertise as much as it is caring - the
> consequence of the last season finale.
Perhaps, but she's been kinda the designated person to wrap wounds and
so on since "City Of"'
.
> Now next episode I'm counting on you for a great review, 'cause my scratched
> up disk is only letting me see the first 10 minutes of the episode. Don't
> feel pressured or anything.
That sucks. Maybe you should transcript along. I don't usually reveal
my opinions in advance of posting them, but I thought 2-4 was pretty
clearly the best of the year so far. It also gets a Good. To be
discussed further tomorrow...
-AOQ
mariposas rand mair fheal greykitten tomys des anges
"Arbitrar Of Quality" <tsm...@wildmail.com> wrote:
its insane troi logic
lili...@gmail.com
Arbitrar Of Quality wrote:
> That's a good argument, and one I mostly agree with. What I'm trying
> to reconcile is that lack of dedication to self-improvement with the
> obsession with "protecting" Buffy, especially in late S2. His logic
> does not resemble Earth logic, maybe.
>
> -AOQ
According to me the reason for that is Xander's insecurity. He doesn't
think he's going to succeed, so he doesn't even bother trying. Notice
during the earlier seasons, how quick he is to put down his
schoolbooks, without ever having really started to study.
It's self fulfilling really, he thinks he's going to fail, doesn't
think it's worth the effort to work at it and thus indeed fails. Which
makes him believe he's not good at it and so on...
Xander may want to protect Buffy, but the thing is, he doesn't really
think she needs him. He wants her to need him, but he doesn't believe
she does. So in his mind, it doesn't really make any difference wether
he has any skills to help her or not.
It's not that he isn't brave, he is, and if he doesn't have the time to
think about it, he can often actually be very effective in backing
Buffy up. Juvpu nyfb rkcynvaf gur qvssrerapr va uvf svtugvat fxvyyf va
inevbhf rcf*rt*
It's only when he gets the time to think about it, and he suddenly
realizes "hey I'm going to fail" that his fighting skills suffer from
it.
I guess to me that's all part of what makes Xander an interesting
character. The more perfect a char is presented as (aka Riley ), the
less I care about them.
Rowan Hawthorn
> lili...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>>
>> Now I like Xander (most of the time), but the fact remains that when it
>> comes down to it, he had a lot of potential, only he never ever
>> bothered to explore it.
>> It's not that he lacks the intelligence, he just lacks the drive.
>
> That's a good argument, and one I mostly agree with. What I'm trying
> to reconcile is that lack of dedication to self-improvement with the
> obsession with "protecting" Buffy, especially in late S2. His logic
> does not resemble Earth logic, maybe.
Of course, we already know that. Xander, like the rest of the Scoobies,
acts on his emotions far more than logic, even though he is quite often
the one who actually *sees* the situation the clearest.
--
Rowan Hawthorn
"Occasionally, I'm callous and strange." - Willow Rosenberg, "Buffy the
Vampire Slayer"
One Bit Shy
news:1149717595.5...@j55g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
I think the obsessive quality to protecting Buffy (as opposed to his natural
protective impulses) is mainly born of the Prophecy Girl experience of him
breathing life into Buffy. I think it really got to him for a while. A
kind of hyper awareness of her mortality and a companion sense that the one
thing he matters for is to keep her alive. That finally toned down some
late in S3 (after a rather bumpy road with Buffy over Angel) and seems to
have settled into a somewhat less obsessive constant readiness to act as
backup. I don't think he's as worked up over her mortality anymore - or his
special place as the one guy who can keep her alive. But I do think that
role as backup remains a very strong part of his personal identity.
None of that requires conscious effort. You don't have to study to be
obsessive.
OBS
One Bit Shy
>
> One Bit Shy wrote:
>> Speaking of which, the best visual shot of the show was, IMO, Angel and
>> Darla moonbathing. The idea of mmonbathing alone is pretty cool. But
>> the
>> way the shadows fell on Angel also gave him a Charles Atlas body building
>> kind of look.
>
> I remember it as a daylight dream. Should I feel dumb?
Well, they're wearing sunglasses. But I'm pretty sure that's part of the
humor. It definitely looks like night. Unless there's an eclipse.
>> Now next episode I'm counting on you for a great review, 'cause my
>> scratched
>> up disk is only letting me see the first 10 minutes of the episode.
>> Don't
>> feel pressured or anything.
>
> That sucks. Maybe you should transcript along. I don't usually reveal
> my opinions in advance of posting them, but I thought 2-4 was pretty
> clearly the best of the year so far. It also gets a Good. To be
> discussed further tomorrow...
Oh, I'm reading the transcript. Not the same thing. Very frustrating
'cause it does indeed look interesting. I'm going to give it one more
shot - use the chapter screen to try to jump in where I can. But I'm not
too hopeful. Oh, well.
OBS
BTR1701
"Arbitrar Of Quality" <tsm...@wildmail.com> wrote:
>
> > The Host (I think that's his only name)
Lorne
Mel
Don Sample wrote:
That was kind of my impression when I re-watched it too. Nothing
special, but ok, and it lets us get to know Gunn a bit more.
I find I am baffled that AoQ liked this one better than AYNOHYEB, but I
guess at this point nothing should surprise me. The Darla plot
definitely gets juicier in this ep which could explain much :-)
Mel
Don Sample
BTR1701 <btr...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> In article <1149655194.1...@i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
> "Arbitrar Of Quality" <tsm...@wildmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Gur Ubfg (V guvax gung'f uvf bayl anzr)
>
> Ybear
Ng guvf cbvag gung'f n yvggyr fcbvyrel, orpnhfr ur unfa'g gbyq nalbar
uvf anzr lrg. Va gur fpevcgf, ur'f fgvyy whfg pnyyrq "Gur Ubfg"
Mel
One Bit Shy wrote:
>
> Now next episode I'm counting on you for a great review, 'cause my scratched
> up disk is only letting me see the first 10 minutes of the episode. Don't
> feel pressured or anything.
>
>
Just curious..are you watching on a regular dvd player or on a computer?
I've had a couple of disks that skip and stick like mad when I play them
on the tv dvd but when I pop them into my computer drive they work just
fine.
Might be something to try if you can.
Mel
KenM47
Also cleaning the disk can help. DO NOT wipe in a circular fashion.
Only from outer rim to inner hole and back.
Ken (Brooklyn)
One Bit Shy
news:c_WdnfzdRegVHBrZ...@uci.net...
My computer DVD player is the only one I have. But thanks for the thought.
OBS
One Bit Shy
news:eo0f82d1bsm4d6ouh...@4ax.com...
Alas, this is truly damaged. It's a used set and, well, that says it. I
haven't done anything like that to a new disk yet.
OBS
KenM47
Well I know they sell disk cleaner/repair type kits. Never used one
myself.
And, as someone else suggested, it may still play in a computer DVD
even if not in a stand alone.
Ken (Brooklyn)
BTR1701
Don Sample <dsa...@synapse.net> wrote:
> In article <btr1702-653548...@news.giganews.com>,
> BTR1701 <btr...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>
> > In article <1149655194.1...@i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
> > "Arbitrar Of Quality" <tsm...@wildmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Gur Ubfg (V guvax gung'f uvf bayl anzr)
> >
> > Ybear
>
> Ng guvf cbvag gung'f n yvggyr fcbvyrel, orpnhfr ur unfa'g gbyq nalbar
> uvf anzr lrg. Va gur fpevcgf, ur'f fgvyy whfg pnyyrq "Gur Ubfg"
Well, it's listed that way on IMDb and was listed that way long before
his name was spoken on screen when the show first ran.
Besides, it's just a character name. It doesn't reveal anything of
substance about the show's plot. It's hardly a spoiler.
peachy ashie passion
I've actually had good luck with my "diskDoctor" machine.
I know that my local used CD shop also offers a more professional repair.
http://www.practicalpc.co.uk/reviews/hard/peripherals/skipdoctor.htm
I tried to find a picture, but I'm lazy.
Horace LaBadie
BTR1701 <btr...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> In article <dsample-CCDBF1...@news.giganews.com>,
> Don Sample <dsa...@synapse.net> wrote:
>
> > In article <btr1702-653548...@news.giganews.com>,
> > BTR1701 <btr...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> >
> > > In article <1149655194.1...@i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
> > > "Arbitrar Of Quality" <tsm...@wildmail.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Gur Ubfg (V guvax gung'f uvf bayl anzr)
> > >
> > > Ybear
> >
> > Ng guvf cbvag gung'f n yvggyr fcbvyrel, orpnhfr ur unfa'g gbyq nalbar
> > uvf anzr lrg. Va gur fpevcgf, ur'f fgvyy whfg pnyyrq "Gur Ubfg"
>
> Well, it's listed that way on IMDb and was listed that way long before
> his name was spoken on screen when the show first ran.
>
> Besides, it's just a character name. It doesn't reveal anything of
> substance about the show's plot. It's hardly a spoiler.
And that's only for short.
Xeriybeafjngu bs gur Qrngujbx Pyna is his full name.
HWL
Horace LaBadie
"Arbitrar Of Quality" <tsm...@wildmail.com> wrote:
> Horace LaBadie wrote:
> > In article <1149655194.1...@i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
> > "Arbitrar Of Quality" <tsm...@wildmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > The Host (I think that's his only name)
> >
> > It's not important.
> >
> > Slartibartfast.
>
> Fjords are cooler than karaeoke.
>
> -AOQ
They're found mainly in sub-arctic environments, except on Earth Mark
Two, so naturally they're cooler.
HWL
Elisi
> That's a good argument, and one I mostly agree with. What I'm trying
> to reconcile is that lack of dedication to self-improvement with the
> obsession with "protecting" Buffy, especially in late S2. His logic
> does not resemble Earth logic, maybe.
>
> -AOQ
::jumps into the conversation::
First let me just say that I really like Gunn. I think he's a generally
well-liked character - people just don't get as terribly passionate
about him as about certain other characters.
Now about the Xander/Gunn differences. To start with Xander, then his
involvement with demon fighting comes solely from his friendship with
Buffy. If they'd never met he would probably not even be aware of the
existence of vampires. Now when we look at WttH we see straight away
how their dynamic works:
Xander: Except for one thing: how do you kill them?
Buffy: *You* don't, *I* do.
Sure he'll help out, but he know he'll only ever be the sidekick. As we
saw in 'Restless' he might have considered becoming a Watcher, but he
knows that he's not really academically capable enough.
So the 'protecting Buffy' gets channelled into 'protecting her virtue',
with himself as concerned brother.
In his world Buffy is his hero and his friend - the one with the
mission. To some degree it becomes his mission too, but if you try to
imagine where Xander would be without Buffy, it might not be so very
far from where he is.
Now Gunn on the other hand has always been a fighter. I can't remember
if it's ever stated, but I think his parents might have been killed by
vampires - at least they're gone, leaving him to raise his younger
sister and protect the neighbourhood. He has had a mission for years,
and when he meets Angel I think maybe he glimpses a way of widening
that mission. He recognises Angel as someone as driven as himself,
which is why he gravitates towards him.
gree...@gmail.com
Arbitrar Of Quality wrote:
> One Bit Shy wrote:
> > Arbitrar Of Quality wrote:
> > > Okay, another thing: where does this medical knowledge of Cordelia's
> > > come from?
> > I was wondering about Cordelia's medical expertise too
>
> Perhaps, but she's been kinda the designated person to wrap wounds and
> so on since "City Of"'
FWIW, in the original, far different, version of the script for "City
of", Cordy cites numerous auditions for guest roles _ER_ as her source
of medical knowledge. A joke, of course, but the only other answer is
she's done some reading on the side. Perhaps Oz's reminder that
hospitals don't treat vampires as a general rule spurred her on.
Terry
mariposas rand mair fheal greykitten tomys des anges
gree...@gmail.com wrote:
why would she even need to bandage angel?
without a heartbeat to move blood all that leaks out
is what is locally near the wound
and if youre killed by a stake to the heart fire or decapitation
why should you worry about an infection?
gree...@gmail.com
mariposas rand mair fheal greykitten tomys des anges wrote:
> why would she even need to bandage angel?
I don't know, but clearly, ever since "City Of", Angel gets bandaged
more than anyone else, despite all the reasons you list he may not
really need it.
Terry
ajs...@aol.com
mariposas rand mair fheal greykitten tomys des anges wrote:
> gree...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> > Arbitrar Of Quality wrote:
> >
> > > One Bit Shy wrote:
> >
> > > > Arbitrar Of Quality wrote:
> >
> > > > > Okay, another thing: where does this medical knowledge of Cordelia's
> > > > > come from?
> >
> > > > I was wondering about Cordelia's medical expertise too
> > >
> > > Perhaps, but she's been kinda the designated person to wrap wounds and
> > > so on since "City Of"'
> >
> > FWIW, in the original, far different, version of the script for "City
> > of", Cordy cites numerous auditions for guest roles _ER_ as her source
> > of medical knowledge. A joke, of course, but the only other answer is
> > she's done some reading on the side. Perhaps Oz's reminder that
> > hospitals don't treat vampires as a general rule spurred her on.
>
> why would she even need to bandage angel?
> without a heartbeat to move blood all that leaks out
> is what is locally near the wound
>
> and if youre killed by a stake to the heart fire or decapitation
> why should you worry about an infection?
You want Angel to ruin all his clothes with blood stains? Plus,
presuming that the blood he drinks is also the blood flowing through
his body, well then seeping wounds would make Angel thirsty.