B&B
dae...@chaos.rtchaos.com
This is the welcome message on the AOL Fantasy board.
Dianne
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
WELCOME TO THE WORLD OF FANTASY FICTION
When I was younger, I along with millions of other viewers was hooked on
television shows like The Night Stalker, and Beauty and the Beast. Beauty and
the Beast brings to mind a theme that has been dealt with from numerous angles
and presented in various formats--hidden cities. It's intriguing to sit and
ponder the possibility of the existance of hidden cities and worlds, of people
living in towns created in structures under my very own feet.
Subterranean cities and passageways are one component of every child's dreams,
along with sunken and/or buried treasure. The city of Seattle is supposed to
have a subterranean infastructure, according to The Night Stalker's heroic
reporter, Kolchak. That show has its own folder located on the Vintage
Television Shows board. You might want to drop in and read what others have
to say about the man who could never find or write a story that his editor
would or could print.
The beautiful love story in the series Beauty and the Beast seemed minor as
we, the viewer, watched the underground city unfold. The grandeur and beauty
supposedly hidden from view by the concrete and cement above left me in awe as
I gazed into the imagination of the creator. What makes it even better is
being able to stop in and leave my thoughts and impressions in the Beauty and
the Beast folder.
Now that you are feeling really adventurous, how about joining me while I go
search for that crazy cat! Last time I saw him, he was flying towards the top
of the board and I could have sworn he had a miner's lantern with him. I
wonder where he could have gone? Oh, I hope he wasn't heading to the Greasy
Grimy Gopher Guts folder!
RELMelanie
Fantasy Fiction Forum Leader
Books Community
The beautybeast-tv list FAQ=>http://www.rtchaos.com/zenobia/batb/faq.html
dae...@chaos.rtchaos.com
In a message dated 98-02-19 00:46:01 EST, you write:
<< The beautiful love story in the series Beauty and the Beast seemed minor as
we, the viewer, watched the underground city unfold. The grandeur and beauty
supposedly hidden from view by the concrete and cement above left me in awe
as
I gazed into the imagination of the creator >>
What?!!!! Is this person SERIOUS?!?! The love story - "minor" - talk about
somebody who DIDN'T GET IT!!!!
Julie
dae...@chaos.rtchaos.com
>In a message dated 98-02-19 00:46:01 EST, you write:
><< The beautiful love story in the series Beauty and the Beast seemed minor as
> we, the viewer, watched the underground city unfold. The grandeur and beauty
> supposedly hidden from view by the concrete and cement above left me in awe
>as
> I gazed into the imagination of the creator >>
>Julie:
>What?!!!! Is this person SERIOUS?!?! The love story - "minor" - talk about
>somebody who DIDN'T GET IT!!!!
tap:
LOL Julie!! That's exactly what I thought!
Vincent and Catherine forever!
|\/\/\/\ ============================= |\/\/\_
/ _ ) ( \
| ) \ Teri )_ \ |
\ | - \ t...@pclink.com ' ) |
\ \ Y |_ / /
> ')_/ Checkmate _ ) <
_| )_ _| |_
| ______ | | ______ |
|___________| ======================== |_________ _|
Check out http://www.rtchaos.com/cabb/cabb.html for Classic BATB stuff!
dae...@chaos.rtchaos.com
In a message dated 98-02-19 18:24:28 EST, you write:
<<
In a message dated 98-02-19 00:46:01 EST, you write:
<< The beautiful love story in the series Beauty and the Beast seemed minor
as
we, the viewer, watched the underground city unfold. The grandeur and
beauty
supposedly hidden from view by the concrete and cement above left me in awe
as
I gazed into the imagination of the creator >>
What?!!!! Is this person SERIOUS?!?! The love story - "minor" - talk about
somebody who DIDN'T GET IT!!!!
Julie
>>
As many times as we have talked about this, "not everyone liked the same
thing."
The tunnel world was my favorite part too.
Dianne
northsider
dae...@chaos.rtchaos.com wrote:
>
> In a message dated 98-02-19 00:46:01 EST, you write:
>
> << The beautiful love story in the series Beauty and the Beast seemed minor as
> we, the viewer, watched the underground city unfold. The grandeur and beauty
> supposedly hidden from view by the concrete and cement above left me in awe
> as
> I gazed into the imagination of the creator >>
>
> What?!!!! Is this person SERIOUS?!?! The love story - "minor" - talk about
> somebody who DIDN'T GET IT!!!!
>
> Julie
>
People approach BATB from different perspectives. Not all are that
heavily into the romance of it. IMO the many "layers" of BATB and the
fact that we can approach it from different perspectives is the series
great strength!
--
=Sandra=
Spend too much time with people of like mind and you will lose yours.
http://personal.jax.bellsouth.net/jax/b/m/bmoore3/
dae...@chaos.rtchaos.com
In a message dated 98-02-19 23:29:31 EST, you write:
<<
In a message dated 98-02-19 00:46:01 EST, you write:
<< The beautiful love story in the series Beauty and the Beast seemed minor
as
we, the viewer, watched the underground city unfold. The grandeur and
beauty
supposedly hidden from view by the concrete and cement above left me in awe
as
I gazed into the imagination of the creator >>
What?!!!! Is this person SERIOUS?!?! The love story - "minor" - talk about
somebody who DIDN'T GET IT!!!!
Julie
>>
As many times as we have talked about this, "not everyone liked the same
thing."
The tunnel world was my favorite part too.
Dianne
>>
I agree Dianne. Everyone to his/her preferences. Yours included Julie.
AdamsGreg&Judy
<< The beautiful love story in the series Beauty and the Beast seemed
minor as we, the viewer, watched the underground city unfold. The
grandeur and beauty supposedly hidden from view by the concrete and
cement above left me in awe as I gazed into the imagination of the
creator >>
>
> What?!!!! Is this person SERIOUS?!?! The love story - "minor" - talk about somebody who DIDN'T GET IT!!!!
> Julie
> >>
> As many times as we have talked about this, "not everyone liked the same thing.">
We all have different tastes, but I can't imagine the Tunnel World
without Vincent and Catherine, and I can't imagine Catherine and Vincent
without the Tunnel World. To me, both made the story -- their beautiful
love story in the Tunnel World.
Judy
dae...@chaos.rtchaos.com
In a message dated 98-02-20 09:41:54 EST, you write:
<< As many times as we have talked about this, "not everyone liked the same
thing."
The tunnel world was my favorite part too.
Dianne
>>
I agree Dianne. Everyone to his/her preferences. Yours included Julie.
>>
I agree that everyone has their own preferences, and I was in no way
"attacking" that. But for someone to say "the romance story was minor" to the
show was ridiculous!!! The show was called "Beauty and the Beast" for Pete's
sake!!! It wasn't called "A World Apart" or "Below the City" or any other
such title..... While I also agree that the concept of the tunnel world is
fascinating and was portrayed beautifully onscreen, I can never agree that
this was meant to be the prominent focus of the series.
Julie
Jim Sankey/Sylvia Fisher
Hi guys!
I just wanted to say that I also think the romance was the focal point of
the show. Right on Julie! :)
And, like Julie, I also agree that we all have our points of view - and they
are ALL valid. What we love about the show is very personal and subjective
and should always be respected.
In our group, we were very divided - a lot of people really liked 3rd season
and thought it was well done. There were only a couple of us who hated it -
and it was a big shock when we discovered (to our utter amazement) that we
did not all agree. It may sound naive, but we were REALLY surprised - when
we sat down and actually discussed what we loved about show - to find out
just how truly different our pov's were. We had never discussed it before -
and why should we have? Presumably, we all loved Vincent and Catherine - if
some of us loved one character a little more than the other one, who cared -
they were both on screen, but when the change came - it was not a pleasant
awakening. We had some tough times in our club - some nasty things were
said. It was hard to get through... :(
I look forward to other people's comments.
Ciao!
Sylvia
"Time is the stream I go fishing in"
- Henry David Thoreau -
AdamsGreg&Judy
Jim Sankey/Sylvia Fisher wrote:
We had some tough times in our club - some nasty things were
> said. It was hard to get through... :(
............
Know the feeling...
Judy
northsider
Julie wrote:
>I agree that everyone has their own preferences, and I was in no way
>"attacking" that. But for someone to say "the romance story was minor" >to the show was ridiculous!!! The show was called "Beauty and the >Beast" for Pete's sake!!! It wasn't called "A World Apart" or "Below >the City" or any other such title..... While I also agree that the >concept of the tunnel world is fascinating and was portrayed >beautifully onscreen, I can never agree that this was meant to be the >prominent focus of the series.
I don't think the poster was saying that the romance was meant to be
only minor in the series, just that for her it was; and, she wasn't
asking you to agree with her.
I was more interested in the romance than anything else; but, the
romance was not my only interest in BATB; and, I do seem to see the
V/C relationship very differently than most BATB fans.
IMO the romance was meant to be the most important aspect of the series;
but, if it wasn't for some fans, that is ok. Catherine was meant to die
in the series and Diana be the new love interest; but, some did not
choose to accept that. I do not. Everyone to what most interests them.
IMO the bond was only there so that Vincent could rescue Catherine and
add a little "action." I did not like it as a romantic thing at all; but
if, for some people the bond is important to the romance, so be it.
Whatever turns you on! :) We all liked different things; and, to say
that we have to accept what the writers might have intended is to say
that we have to accept Catherine's death because that is what they
intended!
northsider
Jim Sankey/Sylvia Fisher wrote:
>
> Hi guys!
>
> I just wanted to say that I also think the romance was the focal point of
> the show. Right on Julie! :)
>
> And, like Julie, I also agree that we all have our points of view - and they
> are ALL valid. What we love about the show is very personal and subjective
> and should always be respected.
>
> In our group, we were very divided - a lot of people really liked 3rd season
> and thought it was well done. There were only a couple of us who hated it -
> and it was a big shock when we discovered (to our utter amazement) that we
> did not all agree. It may sound naive, but we were REALLY surprised - when
> we sat down and actually discussed what we loved about show - to find out
> just how truly different our pov's were. We had never discussed it before -
> and why should we have? Presumably, we all loved Vincent and Catherine - if
> some of us loved one character a little more than the other one, who cared -
> they were both on screen, but when the change came - it was not a pleasant
> said. It was hard to get through... :(
>
>
> Ciao!
>
> Sylvia
>
> >In a message dated 98-02-20 09:41:54 EST, you write:
> >
> ><< As many times as we have talked about this, "not everyone liked the same
> > thing."
> >
> > The tunnel world was my favorite part too.
> >
> > Dianne
> > >>
> >
> > I agree Dianne. Everyone to his/her preferences. Yours included Julie.
> > >>
> >
> >
> >"attacking" that. But for someone to say "the romance story was minor" to the
> >show was ridiculous!!! The show was called "Beauty and the Beast" for Pete's
> >sake!!! It wasn't called "A World Apart" or "Below the City" or any other
> >such title..... While I also agree that the concept of the tunnel world is
> >fascinating and was portrayed beautifully onscreen, I can never agree that
> >this was meant to be the prominent focus of the series.
> >
> - Henry David Thoreau -
>
This is true. I did not make contact with the fandom until after BATB
was cancelled; but, I was immediately surprised at how differently we
interpreted and reacted to various elements of series.
--
JChap0217
> Catherine was meant to die
>in the series and Diana be the new love interest;
>We all liked different things; and, to say
>that we have to accept what the writers might have intended is to say
>that we have to accept Catherine's death because that is what they
>intended!
You see, I disagree here. They did not initially **intend** for Catherine to
die. Koslow has said as much. Catherine's death was sort of a quick solution
to the problem of Hamilton leaving. The character of Diana was invented
**only** after Hamilton announced she was leaving. Koslow has stated very
clearly that the V/C relationship would have gone on had Hamilton stayed. So,
their **intentions** were to keep the story - which was V/C relationship -
alive and well, 'til they had no other choice. Ok - they could have replaced
Hamilton as Catherine, but I really don't believe the majority of fans would
have tolerated that! I think "killing her off" was the best they could do in
the tight spot they were put in. Unfortunatey, for all those writers, cast
members, etc. that hoped they would remain employed, it just didn't work and
people stopped watching when Catherine and the romance died.
Julie
northsider
I am perfectly aware of why they decided that Catherine had to die; but,
once having decided that, it doesn't mean that they meant otherwise!
TCramer124
Julie writes:
<<You see, I disagree here. They did not initially **intend** for Catherine to
die. Koslow has said as much. Catherine's death was sort of a quick solution
to the problem of Hamilton leaving. The character of Diana was invented
**only** after Hamilton announced she was leaving. Koslow has stated very
clearly that the V/C relationship would have gone on had Hamilton stayed. So,
their **intentions** were to keep the story - which was V/C relationship -
alive and well, 'til they had no other choice. Ok - they could have replaced
Hamilton as Catherine, but I really don't believe the majority of fans would
have tolerated that! I think "killing her off" was the best they could do in
the tight spot they were put in. Unfortunatey, for all those writers, cast
members, etc. that hoped they would remain employed, it just didn't work and
people stopped watching when Catherine and the romance died>>
Tina replies:
Julie, I very much agree with everything you said!
At the time, I know I would not have tolerated someone else playing Catherine
even if it meant "cancellation" for the series. For me, Linda Hamilton was and
still *is* Catherine.
If a made for TV movie were to be made, I'm not sure how I'd feel if they
couldn't get LH to be in it. I guess I'm wondering what the point would be. I
began watching this show for the chemistry that RP and LH brought to my TV
screen. That's why I knew third season would not work without LH. Together
LH and RP were Beauty & The Beast. And I think that is the point.
TPTB were in a sticky situation. What do you do when your lead actress decides
to leave? Her role is crucial to the story. Replacing her with another
actress was just not a viable option in my opinion. LH made the character of
Catherine come alive. They were sort of in a damned if they do, damned if they
don't situation.
Up until the moment LH said she wasn't returning, TPTB were planning for a V/C
third season. Then they had to do a quick shuffle and write out her character.
If anything I blame the entire mess on CBS for first cancelling the show and
then deciding to bring it back at the last minute. It left everyone
scrambling.
I can't condemn LH for not wanting to return. She had her reasons.
As I have said before, I consider myself a "classic" fan but I don't hate the
entire third season. It's just that for me the show stopped being B & B after
they killed Catherine. You can't have your Beauty And The Beast without your
original beauty.
TPTB had a contract to give CBS at least 13 episodes and they honored that
commitment. Given the circumstances, I thought Jo Anderson did a wonderful and
credible job as Diana Bennett. I don't blame the demise of the show on her. I
sometimes feel she's been used as a scapegoat.
For all intensive purposes, the show was on its way to being declared DOA as
soon as we got lava and roses and things kind of snowballed and went downhill
from there because you knew what was coming next. As far as I'm concerned,
the show ended as soon we ended up on that roof with V & C . And even then I
couldn't get the kiss I wanted! Ugh!!!!!! :-( All TLBL does for me is
frustrate me!!!!!!
Tina (who watched "Walk Slowly" and still cries through the entire thing.)
alt.tv.lois-n-clark.fanfic
northsider
They made up the series as they went along. A lot of things were
"solutions" to situations that they ran into. According to George R. R.
Martin, Elliot Burch was supposed to be named Elliot Gray; but, they ran
into legal problems. Does that mean that Elliot's name is really Elliot
Gray, and not Elliot Burch, because that is what they originally
intended? :)
JChap0217
>
>They made up the series as they went along. A lot of things were
>"solutions" to situations that they ran into. According to George R. R.
>Martin, Elliot Burch was supposed to be named Elliot Gray; but, they ran
>into legal problems. Does that mean that Elliot's name is really Elliot
>Gray, and not Elliot Burch, because that is what they originally
>intended? :)
Well, Sandra, since that was a very minimal change to what was originally
intended and had absolutely no bearing on the theme of the show, it doesn't
bother me one iota! Plus the fact that they never told us, "This is Elliot
Gray, it's who he is and how you'll relate to him," then do a complete
turn-around and change everything we knew and loved about who he was and what
he meant to us!!
I understand "waffling" on original ideas in order to make them viable and
"marketable"; but changing the entire premise of the original series, that we
had 2 wonderful years to become attached to, in a vain attempt to keep the show
on the air, is just not a "viable" thing for me! They had something that
worked - for reasons beyond their control, they found it would no longer work
(and I really think that deep down they knew this).But instead of bowing out
gracefully, and leaving all their dedicated fans with that warm "fuzzy" feeling
of a "happily ever after" ending (which all stories that begin "Once upon a
time..." end with), they turned Vincent into Batman or some other such
Superhero. He is now vowing to go after all the "bad guys" for no other
reason than he should. (apparently to find his "destiny"). This isn't
Vincent. Vincent fought and killed for those he LOVED - deeply - mainly
Catherine. He didn't go in search of trouble; he only faced it head-on when it
found Catherine or his family. In third season, this is **not** Beauty and the
Beast.
Julie
northsider
How minimal a change is is a matter of opinion. The facts are that
Elliot was originally meant to be a bad guy pure and simple; but, at the
last minute, they changed the script to make it so that it was possible
that Elliot did not know what was being done in his name. This was done
so that they could bring back the character. What I am saying is that
there was more than a name change.
I am also saying that it is not necessary for any of us, to accept some
part of BATB that we do not like just because the writers intended it.
Remember that I am a classic fan; but, that is just my personal
perference, one that I have argued very strongly for with third season
fans.
There is no right or wrong here; and there was no "betrayal." This is
something that both classic and third season fans have to get beyond
before the fandom can heal.
What happened was just one of those unfortunate things. :(