The Starlost
Geoff A. Cohen
"The Starlost"?
Good trivia question: What was Ellison's first writing job? (Hint:
it was for TV).
And for all you anti-Trek yahoos out there, I note that Babylon 5
seems to have a number of ex-Trek writers being mentioned (Fontana,
Gerrold).
Geoff Cohen
gac...@seas.gwu.edu
Gharlane of Eddore
gac...@seas.gwu.edu (Geoff A. Cohen) writes:
> So, with Ellison's newfound TV success, might we see a production of
> "The Starlost"?
> Good trivia question: What was Ellison's first writing job?
> (Hint: it was for TV).
> Geoff Cohen
> gac...@seas.gwu.edu
>
I expect it would either be one of the early "RIPCORD" episodes or
one of the "PETER GUNN" episodes.
....followed, somewhere around '62-'63, by the two "OUTER LIMITS"
episodes. Somewhere shortly after the "OUTER LIMITS" shows, there
was a pretty good "MAN FROM U.N.C.L.E." he did, too.
We won't mention other things he did, like the "MOD SQUAD" script he
claims he did only because he couldn't say "NO!" to anything while
under the influence of Peggy Lipton's pheromones, or the "FLYING NUN"
script he says he did just to get organized crime and real humor into
the series.....
Pirate
> it was for TV).
>
>gac...@seas.gwu.edu
>
Actually he wrote an article for some magazine (can't remember the name of
it right now) on teen gangs in the fifties; I'm pretty sure that's before
he ever wrote anything for tv. He spent a summer as a member of a teen
gang, and when he returned with the assignment, the magazine almost totally
re-wrote it to fit with their idea of what a teen gang should be. They also
airbrushed a scar on Ellison's face on the accompanying picture.
Is it any wonder he's cynical?
But to make this pertinent to this group and the thread-- Babylon 5 promises
to be everything the Starlost was supposed to be but wasn't. It isn't
Harlan's baby, but I'm sure he's not gonna let people with lots o' power and
very little brains screw it up.
I remember the Starlost, and I was only a little tyke at the time. I was
shocked when I learned that Harlan Ellison was responsible... Then sighed
with relief when I found out it wasn't his fault.
It would be like learning Asimov was responsible for Space:1999. *SHUDDER*
TTFN
_________________________________________________________________
"Maybe people only ask you how you're doing because that's easier
than letting on how little they could care." -- Jackson Browne
Pirate (Anthony Taylor) | fn...@elmer.alaska.edu
The Prisoner
>And for all you anti-Trek yahoos out there, I note that Babylon 5
>seems to have a number of ex-Trek writers being mentioned (Fontana,
>Gerrold).
Yup. And isn't it _interesting_ that so far, they're all
people that Gene Roddenberry pissed off _personally_ because
of the restrictions he placed on their ideas?
This is gonna be one hell of a ride.
Michael Montoure \ num...@bailey.cpac.washington.edu / Keeper of Red Dwarf FAQ
"Dehydration - 34%. Recollection of previous evening: 2%. Embarrassment
factor: 91%! Advise repair schedule: Off-line for 36 hours, re-boot
startup disk, and replace head. I've got to stop reading Usenet ... "
William December Starr
In article <1993Jun4.2...@csus.edu>, ghar...@nextnet.csus.edu
(Gharlane of Eddore) said, in re Harlan Ellison:
> We won't mention other things he did, like the "MOD SQUAD" script he
> claims he did only because he couldn't say "NO!" to anything while
> under the influence of Peggy Lipton's pheromones, or the "FLYING NUN"
> script he says he did just to get organized crime and real humor into
> the series.....
Are you sure you aren't confabulating the two? The last time Harlan
spoke at MIT (far too long ago, imho), he told the story of how he'd
written a _Flying Nun_ script (approximate quote) "In the hopes that
maybe I could get next to Sally Field," only to wind up pounding the
final draft out from a hospital bed in Milford, PA, after getting into a
bar-room fight with a representative of the local fauna during a Clarion
workshop. "And the bottom line is, I never got anywhere near Sally
Field."
The only time I've ever heard him mention Peggy Lipton was the story of
the time he had a chance encounter with her on a plane flight shortly
after he'd ripped _Mod Squad_ in his "Glass Teat" column, and once she
found out who he was she terminated the conversation, leaving him with a
serious case of unrequited lust...
-- William December Starr <wds...@world.std.com>
P.S.: Special Bonus Question (15 points): Identify "Elsie Ethrington."
G.C.J. Timm
In a previous article, wds...@world.std.com (William December Starr) says:
>
>In article <1993Jun4.2...@csus.edu>, ghar...@nextnet.csus.edu
>(Gharlane of Eddore) said, in re Harlan Ellison:
>
I long ago realized Harlan Ellison, the hero of my teen years, was
nothing but a jerk. The kind of guy who screams about boycotting
a state for not approving the ERA, then beats up a woman.
That's the trouble with growning old. You outlive all your delusions.
Jeff
Who fears B-5 will fall victim to Ellisons self destructive streak.
Jim Jones
<>Good trivia question: What was Ellison's first writing job? (Hint:
<> it was for TV).
<it right now) on teen gangs in the fifties; I'm pretty sure that's before
<he ever wrote anything for tv. He spent a summer as a member of a teen
<gang, and when he returned with the assignment, the magazine almost totally
<re-wrote it to fit with their idea of what a teen gang should be. They also
<airbrushed a scar on Ellison's face on the accompanying picture.
Ellison spent a lot of the '50s trying to break into print along with
his good buddy Robert Silverberg (they were roomies at some point). He
finally started selling short stories to science fiction magazines and "real
man's" magazines, and I'd suspect that the article you're talking about
referenced one of those magazines.
His more-fun early job comes in the late-50s early 60s when he worked
as an editor for a soft-core porn paperback publisher in Illinois (soft-core
was all that was allowed then for general distribution). His buddy
Silverberg wrote dozens of porn novels for the same outfit (under the
name Don Elliot) and Ellison wrote the hyperactive blurbs on the back cover.
I used to have a few of the novels, they're collectable now. Once you
know that Ellison wrote the jacket blurbs, it's a scream -- they're
clearly in his overstated style.
Jim Jones
Gharlane of Eddore
The juxtaposition of my name next to those comments make it
appear, at first glance, that I have some responsibility for
those sentiments. Since you are not listing anything *I* said,
you should not use an attribution line containing my name.
I'm not clear on who used the line "The kid of guy who screams about
boycotting a state for not approving the ERA, then beats up a woman,"
but you should NOT make cracks like that without making sure you
can prove the assertion/implication in court.
Consider the following facts:
(A) Ellison is a combative sucker who won't knuckle under to ANYONE;
(B) Ellison's lawyer has been mistaken for a combination of Conan,
Perry Mason, Captain America, and a hungry shark. He WINS.
(C) Ellison is not on record as ever having hit a woman for any
reason, much less "beating one up."
I'm tempted to dig out the original article and mail it to him, so
that he can sue for libel/defamation of character; but you probably
don't have enough money to make it worthwhile.
Ellison is many things; he is driven, wounded, doomed to never be as
good in his chosen profession as he wants to be. But he will never
abandon his search for perfection as long as he lives; his writing
skills increase with each passing year, his education is an unceasing
quest, and his erudition and ever-growing command of language and the
written word are the envy of professional writers and academics
everywhere.
The man has EARNED the respect he's given, he's EARNED the awards
he's won, and he's spent nearly five decades of unstinting labor
reaching the top of his profession.
Before semi-literate bozos who couldn't sell a story if their lives
depended on it start evaluating his personal and professional quality,
perhaps it would be better to wait and SEE what he produces, rather
than engaging in negative, legally actionable fabrications, hmmmm?
In other words, give it a rest. If you don't like him personally,
say so. (I've always found him to be witty, cogent, urbane,
polite, and only occasionally incensed.)
BUT DON'T MAKE UP STORIES ABOUT THE MAN.
If you want to engage in celebrity-history fabrication, go get a
job working for the "National Enquirer."
But don't impugn the character of a man who doesn't even use this
network, and is not in a position to defend himself directly;
you can't afford the kind of court action that might result,
should people actually end up taking your implications seriously.
Your ability to type a lie does not confer the right to publish it.
BogusMan
>So, with Ellison's newfound TV success, might we see a production of
>"The Starlost"?
>
I thought we did. It was canadian, showed in syndication in the early 70's,
and featured a lot of folks you might recognize from later shows <John
Colicos, Barry Morse>. Despite the involvement of Ben Bova, Ellison,
ursula K. LeGuin < she is in the credits, but I have no idea what for>
Doug Trumball, and others, it stunk. perfect proof that, despite "2001",
Keir Dullea is not the best of actors.
Pax
--Judex--
David Adrien Tanguay
|I thought we did. It was canadian, showed in syndication in the early 70's,
|and featured a lot of folks you might recognize from later shows <John
|Colicos, Barry Morse>. Despite the involvement of Ben Bova, Ellison,
|ursula K. LeGuin < she is in the credits, but I have no idea what for>
|Doug Trumball, and others, it stunk. perfect proof that, despite "2001",
|Keir Dullea is not the best of actors.
I haven't seen the show since its original run, but I rather liked it at the
time. It had no budget, apparently, and saying the acting stunk is being
charitable, but the premise seems good and I thought (note the past tense!)
the story ideas were good.
Is that just the uncritical desperation of an SF-TV starved 13 year-old?
Reminds me of the B5 reviews...
--
David Tanguay d...@Thinkage.on.ca d...@Thinkage.com uunet!thinkage!dat
Thinkage, Ltd. Kitchener, Ontario, Canada [43.40N 80.47W]
Jim Jones
>
>I haven't seen the show since its original run, but I rather liked it at the
>time. It had no budget, apparently, and saying the acting stunk is being
>charitable, but the premise seems good and I thought (note the past tense!)
>the story ideas were good.
>Is that just the uncritical desperation of an SF-TV starved 13 year-old?
I wasn't much older. I watched it every week, and enjoyed it at first.
But it sank into the same rut most SF TV shows do, at least American ones:
a series of weekly adventures with no real development between shows,
plot-wise, character-wise, or anything. A gaming friend of mine refers to
such shows as zero-sum games: when it's over, you're back where you started.
Any change is cancelled out for fear of altering (horrors) the format.
I like to think of it as the Irwin Allen Zone.
This was a particular problem for the Starlost, because a certain amount
of tension was designed in -- the ship was half-wrecked, out of control,
and on a collision course with a star. However, none of that tension was
realized after the first episode or two. They just wandered, and wandered,
and wandered through that big ship.
Also, the low budget started to show through toward the last. I still
remember this really tacky plastic robot in the last episode I saw. Yeeesh!
Kinda like Rosie the robotic housemaid on the Jetsons!
David Ian Salter
> But it sank into the same rut most SF TV shows do, at least American ones:
> a series of weekly adventures with no real development between shows,
> plot-wise, character-wise, or anything. A gaming friend of mine refers to
> such shows as zero-sum games: when it's over, you're back where you started.
> Any change is cancelled out for fear of altering (horrors) the format.
> I like to think of it as the Irwin Allen Zone.
In the interest of spreading the blame across international borders, let
us note that the series was Canadian-produced.
Let us also note that just about everyone connected with the series in a
creative capacity has long-since disavowed the series as-aired. A good
explanation of What Went Wrong in the journey from concept to execution
can be found in the introduction to _Phoenix Without Ashes_.
--
David Ian Salter ** See you at Worldcon **
sal...@netcom.com
Los Angeles (Hollywood), CA (but Boston born-and-bred)
Mike Van Pelt
>Let us also note that just about everyone connected with the series in a
>creative capacity has long-since disavowed the series as-aired. A good
>explanation of What Went Wrong in the journey from concept to execution
>can be found in the introduction to _Phoenix Without Ashes_.
And a hilarious novelization of what went wrong is
in Ben Bova's "The Starcrossed".
--
Mike Van Pelt | What happens if a big asteroid hits Earth?
m...@netcom.com | Judging from realistic simulations involving a
| sledge hammer and a common laboratory frog, we
| can assume it will be pretty bad. -- Dave Barry
Pirate
>Jim Jones (ji...@contractor.EBay.Sun.COM) wrote:
>> But it sank into the same rut most SF TV shows do, at least American ones:
^^^^^^^^
>In the interest of spreading the blame across international borders, let
>us note that the series was Canadian-produced.
>
Hate to tell you this, but Canada is in America, too. That makes it just as
American as anything in the USA. :-}
Just being nit-picky,
Tony
David Ian Salter
> In article <salterC8...@netcom.com> sal...@netcom.com (David Ian Salter) writes:
> >Jim Jones (ji...@contractor.EBay.Sun.COM) wrote:
> >> But it sank into the same rut most SF TV shows do, at least American ones:
> ^^^^^^^^
> >In the interest of spreading the blame across international borders, let
> >us note that the series was Canadian-produced.
> >
> Hate to tell you this, but Canada is in America, too. That makes it just as
> American as anything in the USA. :-}
I realized my gaffe when I was driving home yesterday. I hope those
reading this group in Canada, Mexico, and all the many other American
countries will forgive me. However, I do think Jim was referring to the
States in his original post.
Geoff Loker
>In article <salterC8...@netcom.com> sal...@netcom.com (David Ian Salter) writes:
>>Jim Jones (ji...@contractor.EBay.Sun.COM) wrote:
>>> But it sank into the same rut most SF TV shows do, at least American ones:
> ^^^^^^^^
>>In the interest of spreading the blame across international borders, let
>>us note that the series was Canadian-produced.
>Hate to tell you this, but Canada is in America, too. That makes it just as
>American as anything in the USA. :-}
Urgh. Unfortunately, usage (here in North America, anyways) tends to the
equation "America" = "USA". So, seeing a statement like yours, I, being
a true Canadian, cringe. Part of what defines a Canadian is that he/she
is NOT an American (= "USofAian").
--
Geoff Loker (glo...@tse.com)
"I don't see much sense in that," said Rabbit.
"No," said Pooh humbly, "there isn't. But there was _going_ to be when I
began it. It's just that something happened to it on the way."
Geoff Loker
>don...@manowar.micro.umn.edu (BogusMan) writes:
>|I thought we did. It was canadian, showed in syndication in the early 70's,
>|and featured a lot of folks you might recognize from later shows <John
>|Colicos, Barry Morse>. Despite the involvement of Ben Bova, Ellison,
>|ursula K. LeGuin < she is in the credits, but I have no idea what for>
>|Doug Trumball, and others, it stunk. perfect proof that, despite "2001",
>|Keir Dullea is not the best of actors.
>I haven't seen the show since its original run, but I rather liked it at the
>time. It had no budget, apparently, and saying the acting stunk is being
>charitable, but the premise seems good and I thought (note the past tense!)
>the story ideas were good.
>Is that just the uncritical desperation of an SF-TV starved 13 year-old?
It still shows up every once in a while on small local stations. I haven't
watched it recently, though.
I, too, rather liked it at the start, but found that chintziness, etc., caused
it to go downhill rapidly. I think that the producers didn't really have
faith in the show, and made some really stupid decisions. I remember reading
in TV Guide how Harlan Ellison refused to let his name be attached to the
series as a writer (he used his pseudonym of "Cordwainer Bird" [I believe])
because of some of the arbitrary decisions. (Apparently, in the pilot episode,
he had someone mention about the domes being 25 miles in diameter, but network
execs had that changed to 1 mile in diameter for some unknown reason. There
were other changes, too, but I don't remember them.) With such leadership
at the helm (the network execs, I mean), the show was doomed to failure.
As for Bogusman's comment against the acting ability of Keir Dullea, I don't
think that any of the actors were really given a chance in the show. By the
time the cast had had enough time to get comfortable with one another and
with their characters, the hand-writing was already on the wall and the general
writing and production values had really deteriorated, so it was impossible
for anyone to shine.
james r yingst
>fn...@elmer.alaska.edu (Pirate) writes:
>>Hate to tell you this, but Canada is in America, too. That makes it just as
>>American as anything in the USA. :-}
>Urgh. Unfortunately, usage (here in North America, anyways) tends to the
>equation "America" = "USA". So, seeing a statement like yours, I, being
>a true Canadian, cringe. Part of what defines a Canadian is that he/she
>is NOT an American (= "USofAian").
>--
Well, as long as we're off topic, this brings up another problem with
applying "American" to both continents, which is the lack of a good
adjective to denote "of or pertaining to the USA". If we cease to use
"American" when we mean "USofAian", what word do we use instead to
avoid confusion? As long as "American" seems the most convenient way
to denote "USofAian", then such usage will probably not die out.
What word is used in Spanish, anyhow?
On the other hand, if we in the USA (and Canada?) could just convince
everyone else to accept *our* usage and quit applying "America" to mean
all of North and South America, *then* we'd solve everything. :) :) :)
Lastly - can anyone suggest an appropriate newsgroup for this?
Jim Yingst
yin...@argon.uug.arizona.edu
Dennis Handly
I thought they used norte americano? But I guess that would lump in the
poor Canadians. Of course they could also use the word gringo and
damn yankee imperialist. ;-)
That's pretty specific. :-)
Don Hutton
>I wasn't much older. I watched it every week, and enjoyed it at first.
>But it sank into the same rut most SF TV shows do, at least American ones:
>a series of weekly adventures with no real development between shows,
>plot-wise, character-wise, or anything. A gaming friend of mine refers to
I heard Harlan Ellison, who was the uncredited (his idea) writer for
the first episode, talk about what the producers did to the show. He gave them
a plot synopsis for the whole first season. They never got back to him
(except for a question about "Is the backup-bridge what they use to make the
ship go backwards"?) until they had filmed the first episode. They used the
whole synopsis in the first show! He had nothing to do with it after that.
Ben Bova was the science consultant. He said they paid him some money
to comment on the science aspects of the show. He would tell them about 5 or
6 things they had dead wrong per show and they would ignore him completely.
I always thought it was a weird show. What with the lead character
being played by the same guy who was 'Dave' in 2001 and the fact that it was
produced by CTV (Canadian Television) network in order to meet some Canadian
Content regulations (just like the McKenzie brothers on SCTV!). I hear it
had some kind of cult following in the US mid-West.
I think that it was CTV that also made "Strange Paradise" for much the
same reasons. It was an 'occult soap-opera' that had a Satanic Rabbit called
the Beelza-bunny (Bee-"L"-zah-bunny).
--
"The glass is neither half-full nor half-empty, it is simply too big."
Presidential Commission on Lower Expectations
Don Hutton, hut...@promis.com
jt...@ac.dal.ca
> fn...@elmer.alaska.edu (Pirate) writes:
>
>>In article <salterC8...@netcom.com> sal...@netcom.com (David Ian Salter) writes:
>
>>>Jim Jones (ji...@contractor.EBay.Sun.COM) wrote:
>>>> But it sank into the same rut most SF TV shows do, at least American ones:
>> ^^^^^^^^
>
>>>In the interest of spreading the blame across international borders, let
>>>us note that the series was Canadian-produced.
>
>>Hate to tell you this, but Canada is in America, too. That makes it just as
>>American as anything in the USA. :-}
>
> Urgh. Unfortunately, usage (here in North America, anyways) tends to the
> equation "America" = "USA". So, seeing a statement like yours, I, being
> a true Canadian, cringe. Part of what defines a Canadian is that he/she
> is NOT an American (= "USofAian").
:) Well, that's quite true. I wonder why? The general
American <oops did it again :) considers Canadians as their "ok"
neighbours but the general Canadian has a differing opinion. :)
I think most people in the world DO consider America=USA. At
least all my worldwide penpals do <they tell me when they learn
those forbidden "American" 4-letter words - takes the blame off us
Canadians eh? :)
James
JT...@ac.dal.ca
Bret D. Wortman: WordMan
> In article <C8F63...@tsegw.tse.com>, glo...@tsegw.tse.com (Geoff Loker) writes:
>> fn...@elmer.alaska.edu (Pirate) writes:
>>
>>>In article <salterC8...@netcom.com> sal...@netcom.com (David Ian Salter) writes:
>>
>>>>Jim Jones (ji...@contractor.EBay.Sun.COM) wrote:
>>>>> But it sank into the same rut most SF TV shows do, at least American ones:
>>> ^^^^^^^^
>>
>>>>In the interest of spreading the blame across international borders, let
>>>>us note that the series was Canadian-produced.
Uh, guys? Since when was Robert Klein Productions a Canadian producer?
Just 'cause it was *filmed* in the Great White North don't make it
Canadian-produced, IMO.
Of course, I could be wrong. That's always a possibility.
It's just highly improbable. ;-)
WordMan
--
----------------------+---------------------------------------------------------
Bret D. Wortman |Lister: Love is what separates us from the animals
wor...@centurylub.com|Rimmer: No, Lister -- what separates us from animals is
wor...@decus.org |that we don't use our tongues to clean our own genitals.
----------------------+---------------------------------------------------------
BogusMan
According to several guides, The show was produced originally for
Canadian television. That I believe, qualifies it as canadian.
why this is such a big deal, I have no idea.
Pax
--Judex--