Mating of alien species (pilot)
David M LaMacchia
a friend of mine, a bio major, said something about the pilot that I
really hadn't recognized when I first saw it. In reference to the
scene between G'Kar and Lyta (sorry, that's her name, right?) in the
"cone of silence," where he proposes they mate to give his race
telpathic abilities. How could this be possible? Aren't species
differentiated by the fact that they can't mate with one another? No
matter how it would be done, Lyta and G'Kar most likely don't have the
same number of chromosomes, so this wouldn't work.
Is this totally off base?
--dave
--
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Dave LaMacchia "These brownies would make great brake linings!"
d...@athena.mit.edu -- Sam & Max, Freelance Police
Chris DuPuis
>I was rewatching the B5 pilot with some friends a few nights ago when
>a friend of mine, a bio major, said something about the pilot that I
>really hadn't recognized when I first saw it. In reference to the
>scene between G'Kar and Lyta (sorry, that's her name, right?) in the
>"cone of silence," where he proposes they mate to give his race
>telpathic abilities. How could this be possible? Aren't species
>differentiated by the fact that they can't mate with one another? No
>matter how it would be done, Lyta and G'Kar most likely don't have the
>same number of chromosomes, so this wouldn't work.
>Is this totally off base?
This is true. Just empirically, I'd say that organisms with genes that
differ by 1-2% have a chance of producing offspring, but their offspring
would almost certainly be sterile. If all G'Kar wanted was the gene
sequence necessary for telepathy, that would be no problem, since transferring
genes from one organism to another is currently a well-established
procedure (at least in bacteria), and this technolgy would have presumably
progressed in the time between the present and the story. However, since
he believes that he will be able to produce viable offspring with a human
mate, two possibilities are raised:
1: G'Kar's parents never taught him the facts of life as pertaining to
interspecial sex (you don't need a condom, 'casue she won't get
pregnant, any no disease will affect both of you).
2: whatever-the-name-of-G'Kar's-race-is descended from humans, or vice
versa. Hmm... maybe they're refugees from Golgafricham...
--
Christopher DuPuis go...@ugcs.caltech.edu
"Speak softly and carry a big stick."
-Archimedes
is a kludge
>d...@athena.mit.edu (David M LaMacchia) writes:
>>I was rewatching the B5 pilot with some friends a few nights ago when
>>[Snip]
>>same number of chromosomes, so this wouldn't work.
>>Is this totally off base?
>This is true. Just empirically, I'd say that organisms with genes that
>[Snip]
>mate, two possibilities are raised:
>1: G'Kar's parents never taught him the facts of life as pertaining to
> interspecial sex (you don't need a condom, 'casue she won't get
> pregnant, any no disease will affect both of you).
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Parasites might. Depends on how tasty you are :)
>2: whatever-the-name-of-G'Kar's-race-is descended from humans, or vice
> versa. Hmm... maybe they're refugees from Golgafricham...
3: G'Kar feels like trying to learn more about Lyta by putting her in
an embarassing situation.
The scene may have been somewhat similar to the "frictionless sheets" bit -
a joke in some form... It was rather funny you must admit :)
Of course there are other little problems involved in interspecies (that
term may be a little inapropriate because they're from completely dif-
ferent ecosystems - maybe inter-kingdom or something equally stupid
sounding?) mating - their sexual organs may not be compatible ("Eeew
what's THAT?") and Narns may not even HAVE DNA - at least not in any
form even remotely compatible to ours.
Of course a human-centauri mating might actually work - it's possible
that humans are descendants of the centauri - only the centauri really
think so though... But if the idea can persist you can probably assume
that humans and centauri are similar in more ways than looks.
J. G. Delisle
>I was rewatching the B5 pilot with some friends a few nights ago when
>a friend of mine, a bio major, said something about the pilot that I
>really hadn't recognized when I first saw it. In reference to the
>scene between G'Kar and Lyta (sorry, that's her name, right?) in the
>"cone of silence," where he proposes they mate to give his race
>telpathic abilities. How could this be possible? Aren't species
>differentiated by the fact that they can't mate with one another? No
>matter how it would be done, Lyta and G'Kar most likely don't have the
>same number of chromosomes, so this wouldn't work.
I was under the impression that G'Kar just wanted to have sex with
her. He did put a lot of emphasis on the _pleasure_ aspect of it.
Just my 2 cents.
Ron Jarrell
: The scene may have been somewhat similar to the "frictionless sheets" bit -
: a joke in some form... It was rather funny you must admit :)
Eh, sort of. Joe has pointed out that to many of the races in that
universe, Genetic Engineering is a fairly advanced science. The Narn
are big on bio tech, and while the humans, due to combinations of laws
and cultural biases don't tinker much beyond things like birth defect
control and such, the narn have no such cumpunctions.
He wanted enough DNA from her to edit a functional narn telepath. He
also thought the mating might be fun. G'Kar is a swinger..
--
Ron Jarrell
Virginia Tech Computing Center
jar...@vtserf.cc.vt.edu
Gregory R Block
: 1: G'Kar's parents never taught him the facts of life as pertaining to
: interspecial sex (you don't need a condom, 'casue she won't get
: pregnant, any no disease will affect both of you).
Something else: You got a distinct feeling of "satisfaction" in his
voice when he mentions it... It sounds like he was looking forward to
the act itself; so I'd say its a combination, perhaps. The whole "gene"
thing could just be something to explain away his virile desires... :)
Greg
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Robert DeMillo
> d...@athena.mit.edu (David M LaMacchia) writes:
> > In reference to the
> >scene between G'Kar and Lyta (sorry, that's her name, right?) in the
> >"cone of silence," where he proposes they mate to give his race
> >telpathic abilities. How could this be possible? Aren't species
> >differentiated by the fact that they can't mate with one another?
> This is true. Just empirically, I'd say that organisms with genes that
> differ by 1-2% have a chance of producing offspring, but their offspring
> would almost certainly be sterile.
Where did you get *that* from? Granted, it's been about 8 years since I took
gradutate genetics, but Without identical chromosonal pairing,
offspring is impossible. Period. (Are you makeing a guess because when you
mate a horse with a donkey you get a sterile mule? Horses and donkeys
are chromosonally equivalent.)
> If all G'Kar wanted was the gene
> sequence necessary for telepathy, that would be no problem, since transferring
> genes from one organism to another is currently a well-established
> procedure (at least in bacteria)
True. Gene re-sequencing would work, but:
(1) This implies an incredible species bias: who's to say that an alien
species basic informational unit is a DNA sequence contained in
chromosome pairings?
(2) I got the impression that G'Kar was more interested in the
act of mating, rather than the actual result of the mating.
> --
> Christopher DuPuis go...@ugcs.caltech.edu
--
- Rob DeMillo | Internet: dem...@juliet.ll.mit.edu
MIT Lincoln Lab | America Online: exga...@aol.com
Weather Sensing - Group 43 | Reality: 617-981-2105 (office)
"Operation Goofy now in effect!"
--- Tom Servo, "Gamera vs. Gaos," Mystery Science Theater 3000
Val Kartchner
: In article <20jhh0...@gap.caltech.edu> go...@ugcs.caltech.edu (Chris DuPuis) writes:
: > d...@athena.mit.edu (David M LaMacchia) writes:
: > > In reference to the
: > >telpathic abilities. How could this be possible? Aren't species
: > >differentiated by the fact that they can't mate with one another?
: > This is true. Just empirically, I'd say that organisms with genes that
: > differ by 1-2% have a chance of producing offspring, but their offspring
: > would almost certainly be sterile.
: Where did you get *that* from? Granted, it's been about 8 years since I took
: gradutate genetics, but Without identical chromosonal pairing,
: offspring is impossible. Period. (Are you makeing a guess because when you
: mate a horse with a donkey you get a sterile mule? Horses and donkeys
: are chromosonally equivalent.)
What! Are you all stupid!? It's done on "Star Trek" all of the time, so
it is fact!
)) ***ST:TNG*** spoiler ahead of episode aired months ago.
.. ))
.. )) "Star Trek: The Next Generation" dealt with this very
----- )) issue in an episode this season called "The Chase".
----- )) Basically, a race which is long dead, seeded many
.. )) planets in this region of the galaxy. It was a semi-
.. )) lame episode (3rd and 4th seasons were best), but they
)) *FINALLY* attempted to explain inter-planetary mating.
Seriously though, I, too, thought that a species was defined by the ability
to mate and produce viable offspring. I'd appreciate a geneticist's/
zoo-ologist's definition of 'species'.
--
|================= #include <stddisclaimer.h> ================///=============|
| "AMIGA: The computer for the creative mind" (tm) Commodore /// Weber State |
| "Macintosh: The computer for the rest of us"(tm) Apple \\\/// University |
|== "I think, therefore I AMiga" -- v...@csulx.weber.edu ==\///= Ogden UT USA =|
David Adrien Tanguay
|How could this be possible? Aren't species
|differentiated by the fact that they can't mate with one another? No
|matter how it would be done, Lyta and G'Kar most likely don't have the
|same number of chromosomes, so this wouldn't work.
No, it wouldn't work. Even laboratory gene splicing is probably a long shot,
since they come from completely different genetic backgrounds. But does Lyta
know that? Maybe G'Kar suspects that Lyta doesn't know that?
I assume G'Kar did enough homework to determine that the interfaces are
compatible, and the rest is a pick-up line. I.e., it's a joke. It may even be
intended to tell us something about the ignorance of Psi Corps personnel.
After all, she didn't even know about the history of the Babylons, which should
have been big news.
--
David Tanguay d...@Thinkage.on.ca d...@Thinkage.com uunet!thinkage!dat
Thinkage, Ltd. Kitchener, Ontario, Canada [43.40N 80.47W]
David Strauss
serious genetic interference by the lab coats, but we are
talking about the Narns here. Anything in their quest for power.
As for Lyta knowing about the Babylon stations, it wasn't
simply a lame way to have Sinclair give exposition. See, as we
learn more about the Psi-Corps, we'll see that they parallel in
many ways the way the Soviets used to treat their young
athletes. Taken away from their parents at an early age when
they show promise, the Psi-Corps recruits lead a very
sheltered, structured life until they begin service. So it's
not unlikely that Lyta wouldn't be up to date on major
interstellar incidents like the history of the Babylon stations.
Tom Greenberg
> Robert DeMillo (dem...@juliet.ll.mit.edu) wrote:
> : In article <20jhh0...@gap.caltech.edu> go...@ugcs.caltech.edu (Chris DuP
> : > d...@athena.mit.edu (David M LaMacchia) writes:
> : > > In reference to the
> : > >scene between G'Kar and Lyta [...] he proposes they mate to give his rac
> : > >telpathic abilities. How could this be possible? Aren't species
> : > >differentiated by the fact that they can't mate with one another?
>
> : > This is true. Just empirically, I'd say that organisms with genes that
> : > differ by 1-2% have a chance of producing offspring, but their offspring
> : > would almost certainly be sterile.
>
> : Where did you get *that* from? Granted, it's been about 8 years since I too
> : gradutate genetics, but Without identical chromosonal pairing,
> : offspring is impossible. Period. (Are you makeing a guess because when you
> : mate a horse with a donkey you get a sterile mule? Horses and donkeys
> : are chromosonally equivalent.)
>
> What! Are you all stupid!? It's done on "Star Trek" all of the time, so
> it is fact!
>
> )) ***ST:TNG*** spoiler ahead of episode aired months ago.
> .. ))
> .. )) "Star Trek: The Next Generation" dealt with this very
> ----- )) issue in an episode this season called "The Chase".
> ----- )) Basically, a race which is long dead, seeded many
> .. )) planets in this region of the galaxy. It was a semi-
> .. )) lame episode (3rd and 4th seasons were best), but they
> )) *FINALLY* attempted to explain inter-planetary mating.
>
> Seriously though, I, too, thought that a species was defined by the ability
> to mate and produce viable offspring. I'd appreciate a geneticist's/
> zoo-ologist's definition of 'species'.
>
> --
> |================= #include <stddisclaimer.h> ================///============
> | "AMIGA: The computer for the creative mind" (tm) Commodore /// Weber State
> | "Macintosh: The computer for the rest of us"(tm) Apple \\\/// University
> |== "I think, therefore I AMiga" -- v...@csulx.weber.edu ==\///= Ogden UT USA
OKAY PEOPLE, IT WAS JUST A PICKUP LINE... CAN WE GET ONTO A DIFFERENT
TOPIC OF CONVERSATION, PLEASE?!?!?!?!
--
Internet: seb...@pinetree.org (Tom Greenberg)
UUCP: pinetree!sebcoe
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