series?
Harry Tuttle
as a supervisor for the Babylon 5 TV series. Does this mean we are assured
a season of this show? Does anyone know what's going on with the B5 series?
Thanks.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
| "Listen, kid, we're all in it together." Jason Ellis |
| -Archibald Tuttle, Heating Engineer jel...@wam.umd.edu |
---------------------------------------------Segmentation fault (core dumped)
David Thiel
>On Sci-Fi Buzz last night, Harlon Ellison (sp?) said he has just signed on
>as a supervisor for the Babylon 5 TV series. Does this mean we are assured
>a season of this show? Does anyone know what's going on with the B5 series?
Since Warner Bros. has contracted for a full season's worth of episodes, it
seems we are assured that B5 will last at least one year.
The real question is, given Ellison's TV track record, are we assured an
entire season of his involvement? How long before he writes something that
the producers don't like, and he decides to take back his toys and go home?
David Thiel / Traffic Manager Phone: (217) 333-1070
WILL-TV / University of Illinois / Urbana Internet: d-t...@uiuc.edu
"They've taken a supreme oath of celibacy, like their fathers and their fathers
before them." --HOT SHOTS PART DEUX
BogusMan
That's a pretty superficial view of Harlan's record.
Most of the times he has left a show, there has been a damn good reason,
far more than "writing something the producers didn't like".
I consider having the scientific basis of your ideas altered and
destroyed a good reason to leave. <Ever watch "The Starlost"? I don't
recommend it>
And Harlan is not averse to rewrites for a good reason. Check out the
history of what went on with Ellison and Roddenberry during the
scripting of "City On The Edge Of Forever" sometime....
Pax
--Judex--
David Thiel
>In article <d-thiel.29...@uiuc.edu> d-t...@uiuc.edu (David Thiel)
writes:
>>In article <20n0rq$l...@cville-srv.wam.umd.edu> jel...@wam.umd.edu (Harry
Tuttle) writes:
>>
>>>On Sci-Fi Buzz last night, Harlon Ellison (sp?) said he has just signed on
>>>as a supervisor for the Babylon 5 TV series. Does this mean we are assured
>>>a season of this show? Does anyone know what's going on with the B5
>>>series?
>>Since Warner Bros. has contracted for a full season's worth of episodes, it
>>seems we are assured that B5 will last at least one year.
>>
>>The real question is, given Ellison's TV track record, are we assured an
>>entire season of his involvement? How long before he writes something that
>>the producers don't like, and he decides to take back his toys and go home?
>That's a pretty superficial view of Harlan's record.
>Most of the times he has left a show, there has been a damn good reason,
>far more than "writing something the producers didn't like".
>I consider having the scientific basis of your ideas altered and
>destroyed a good reason to leave. <Ever watch "The Starlost"? I don't
>recommend it>
I'm aware of Ellison's record. I've even read the rejected TWILIGHT ZONE
script that caused him to bail out of that series. It was a tidy little
tale of a white bigot who tells black children that they will be visited by
a white monster named "Nackles" on Christmas Eve. He finds out that
"Nackles" is real [when it comes for him instead], but it's a *black*
monster. Personally, I had to side with the producers on that one; the
precise message on racism Ellison intended was unclear to me.
>And Harlan is not averse to rewrites for a good reason. Check out the
>history of what went on with Ellison and Roddenberry during the
>scripting of "City On The Edge Of Forever" sometime....
I've also read Ellison's original draft of "City," and while it's a great
script, it's also no wonder that it was heavily rewritten. As I recall, the
STAR TREK characters acted seriously out of character. It's been a while
since I read it, but weren't there also drug dealers among the Enterprise
crew? That definitely goes against the grain of Roddenberry's view of his
own series.
My view on Ellison is that he is well aware of the fact that *all* TV
writers are rewritten (for better or for worse) at times. Sometimes it's for
production reasons (a scene that's too expensive to shoot), or sometimes
it's an editorial matter (the script presents something that goes against
the producer's wishes). Yet, he behaves (IMO) petulantly when it happens to
*him*. Honestly, I can't recall a series on which Ellison has served for an
entire season.
I didn't really intend this to be just another slam at Ellison; I think his
involvement with B5 means a greater possibility for a quality sci-fi
series. I would just like to see him follow this one through.
The Prisoner
>And Harlan is not averse to rewrites for a good reason. Check out the
>history of what went on with Ellison and Roddenberry during the
>scripting of "City On The Edge Of Forever" sometime....
Uhhhh -- I have. Which part of hanging a noose in the lobby
of Roddenberry's office, pointing to it when Gene came out,
and shouting, "Tell me it's not true that someone rewrote my
words!" do you consider "not averse"? :)
To answer the original poster's question, though, to my
understanding, Harlan is writing a series bible and a "How
to write SF for TV" manifesto for the show, and aside from
a few scripts, that's most of his committment right there;
I'm sure he'll see that through.
I also doubt that, in light of their long-standing friendship,
JMS would pull any stunts like promising Harlan he can do all
his rewrites himself, and then turning around and personally
doing them for him without consulting him ... which is what
Roddenberry did.
--
Michael Montoure \ num...@bailey.cpac.washington.edu / Keeper of Red Dwarf FAQ
"Dehydration - 34%. Recollection of previous evening: 2%. Embarrassment
factor: 91%! Advise repair schedule: Off-line for 36 hours, re-boot
startup disk, and replace head. I've got to stop reading Usenet ... "
David M. Palmer
>I've also read Ellison's original draft of "City," and while it's a great
>script, it's also no wonder that it was heavily rewritten. As I recall, the
>STAR TREK characters acted seriously out of character. It's been a while
>since I read it, but weren't there also drug dealers among the Enterprise
>crew? That definitely goes against the grain of Roddenberry's view of his
>own series.
I thought that City was written early on, before, the characters had
well defined character to act out of :-).
And there are drug dealers on the current Enterprise crew. Do you
think Whoopi Goldberg sells water and unfermented fruit juices
in 10-forward? (I have no solid evidence regarding Dr. Crusher,
but did you ever notice that she always wears long sleeves? You'd
think that hypo-spray tracks would be almost unnoticable, but
you can't be too careful.)
--
David M. Palmer pal...@alumni.caltech.edu
pal...@tgrs.gsfc.nasa.gov
Clipper: Privacy for people who have nothing to hide.
Timothy M. Schreyer
|>
|> And there are drug dealers on the current Enterprise crew. Do you
|> think Whoopi Goldberg sells water and unfermented fruit juices
|> in 10-forward?
Nope. But she is supposedly selling "synthanol", which has many of
the properties of alcohol but is non-addictive, non-dependency forming,
and free of nasty hangovers. Gee... what's left? I've never seen
anyone on TNG set drunk in 10-Forward from drinking there.
Tim
--
Timothy M. Schreyer sch...@vfl.paramax.com
Software Technology R&D (215) 648-2475
Paramax Systems Corporation FAX: (215) 648-2288
PO Box 517, Paoli, PA 19301
Dar Korra'ti
>I've also read Ellison's original draft of "City," and while it's a great
>script, it's also no wonder that it was heavily rewritten. As I recall, the
>STAR TREK characters acted seriously out of character.
humans, how scum-like they were and how he can't imagine how they ever
crawed out of their barbarity. Obviously, he forgot the entire history of
_his_ planet. :-)
>weren't there also drug dealers among the Enterprise crew?
Yep. That was another big thing Roddenberry didn't like.
The copy of the script I read had commentary by Ellison, wherein he
says that a character from his version (a cripppled WWI vet) was one of
the best characters he'd ever written, and that he considered him being
cut proof that they didn't know what they were doing when rewriting his
script. Well, having read the script a couple of times now, I have to say
that I think this "best character" was a screaming cliche that had no
purpose being in the script to being with.
And I _like_ Ellison's work. I'm _really_ hoping he behaves in B5,
and helps make it a really, really great series. But I don't always trust
his ability to edit himself, and if he's not going to be willing to deal
with other people...
- R'ykandar.
--
R'ykandar Korra'ti | LOW ORBIT PUBLICATIONS
da...@microsoft.com | REFRACTIONS #2 DEADLINE HAS BEEN EXTENDED!
Dar Korra'ti
>In article <20oaji...@gap.caltech.edu>, pal...@cco.caltech.edu (David M. Palmer) writes:
>|> And there are drug dealers on the current Enterprise crew. Do you
>|> think Whoopi Goldberg sells water and unfermented fruit juices
>|> in 10-forward?
> Nope. But she is supposedly selling "synthanol"
...am I the only person who keeps reading this as some sort of synthetic
replacement gasolene?
And if so, d'ya think it's intentional? Or is that giving too much
cleverness credit to the Trek writers? :-)
ObB5: A lot of people talk about using the SGI; one of the SGI advantages
is higher resolution. However, at NTSC, you couldn't see it anyway, so
you're kind of stuck. (Broadcast transmitters in the US don't tend to
pass more than 300 lines of resolution; the Toaster does a lot better than
that, so they're already ahead of the game.) Of course, with something
like Jurassic Park, you need the higher resolution, so an SGI machine makes
good sense in that context.
Hoping that when they re-broadcast
the pilot, the local station gets the
sound right this time (agh!),
David Strauss
they can show the main characters drinking (or in a bar
setting) without having to deal with petty complaints about
promoting alcoholism, etc.
BogusMan
the main thing I was bringing up about "CotEoF" was that the original draft
called for a valley of staues that talked, not the guardian we have ll
come to know. Roddenberry explained that such a scene was not possible
with their budget, and Ellison recanted and rewrote the script, becuase
it was a reasonable ideaz.
As for characters acting out of character, this was a damn early episode,
and they weren't incredibly well defined. When this was pointed out to
Harlan, the script was rewritten. he will work with a producer, as loong
as their is actual communication. What he has always been offended by
is non-writers changing things to suit themselves.
As for "Nackles", I haven't read the script but I have read the story,
and it is very good IMHO. and the point on racism is very clear.
Harlan should be a real boon to the show, since he knows many of the
p[eople involved already, and communication should not be a problem.
As for his not staying with any show, I would have bailed out of
"Logan's run", "The Starlost", and many others he has worked on too.
I cannot speak for why he left TZ, but the show was hardly a masterpiece...
Pax
--Judex--
BogusMan
of course she can't sell real alcohol. that would be politically incorrect.
And the last thing ST:TNG wants to be is non-PC. that is one of the 1001
reasons I hate the show.
Pax
--Judex--
BUCKLEY CHARLES RAY
One thing I really did not appreciate in STTNG was Keiko's surprise that
someone would eat real meat. I guess that she has never read any of Authur C
Clarke's short stories.
>Pax
> --Judex--
>
--
Charles Buckley buc...@ucsu.colorado.edu
It's turtles all the way down.
Just another West Virginia exile in the land of make believe.
Caesar si viveret, ad remum dareris.