Last night's ep - Is this Angel or Star Trek?

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Flagg

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Nov 24, 1999, 3:00:00 AM11/24/99
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SPOILERS.
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Okay, up until the end, I was sort of enjoying the latest episode of
"Angel"...

But then they had to go and ruin it with that UTTER COP-OUT of an
ending, the whole bogus "go back in time and make it never happen"
schlock that seems to happen in practically every Star Trek series AND
movie over and over again.

It's a sure sign of a writer who doesn't know their job, to set up an
episode with all of these MAJOR, FAR-REACHING actions and
consequences, only to reverse it all in the last 5 minutes with some
"hand of god" coming out of NOWHERE and fixing everything back to the
way it was.

Obviously, they wanted some juicy promo scenes for november sweeps but
didn't REALLY want to deal with the true consequences of such scenes,
hence the cop out ending.


VERY disappointing.

Flagg


C. Barrans

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Nov 24, 1999, 3:00:00 AM11/24/99
to
Flagg wrote:
>
> SPOILERS.
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> Okay, up until the end, I was sort of enjoying the latest episode of
> "Angel"...
>
> But then they had to go and ruin it with that UTTER COP-OUT of an
> ending, the whole bogus "go back in time and make it never happen"
> schlock that seems to happen in practically every Star Trek series AND
> movie over and over again.

To be fair, this reversal of time idea is much older than Star Trek:
beings with powers over time are part of many mythologies, as shown by
all the stories of someone going into faeryland and coming out again 100
years later or whatever. You do have a valid point about ST often using
it as a cop-out making a story more dramatic rather than less. I was
rather pleased with it in the case of this _Angel_ episode, though, as
it gave Angel more reason to brood and Buffy more reason to get together
with Riley, which is the way things should be 'cos I've gotten really
sick and tired of the B/A romance by this point.

> It's a sure sign of a writer who doesn't know their job, to set up an
> episode with all of these MAJOR, FAR-REACHING actions and
> consequences, only to reverse it all in the last 5 minutes with some
> "hand of god" coming out of NOWHERE and fixing everything back to the
> way it was.

Again, be fair, that "hand of god" was shown much earlier in the episode
when Angel went to the Oracles the first time. And we knew already that
temporal folds are possible in the Buffyverse because Anya & Willow
created one back in "Doppelgangland" bringing the alternate Willowvamp
to "our" Buffy's reality.

> Obviously, they wanted some juicy promo scenes for november sweeps but
> didn't REALLY want to deal with the true consequences of such scenes,
> hence the cop out ending.

Well, it's true that they probably didn't want to deal with a pregnant
Slayer at this point...

>VERY disappointing.

I have to disagree. I'm sick of the B/A scenes, yet found the "I'll
never forget" scene rather touching.

-- CB
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Science is not the way to find answers to all our questions.
Science is a way to find better questions.

the Net Prophet

unread,
Nov 25, 1999, 3:00:00 AM11/25/99
to
To all the people saying "Buffy has ripped off Star Trek," I would just
like to point out that Star Trek ripped off other people. For instance,
who in their right mind would disagree that the Borg are nothing more than
glorified Cybermen from Dr. Who?! Borg: "Resistance is Futile."
Cybermen: "Resistence is Useless!"
Borg: a cyborg race of for biological entities which assimilate and kill
for their Collective mind.
Cybermen: a cyborg race of former human entities which kill for their
collective mind.

Dr. Who started in the 60s. TNG started in the 80s. Who ripped off who?
DId anyone complain? Nut up or shut up, Hardcore Holly says :-)

Flagg wrote:

> SPOILERS.
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
>
> Okay, up until the end, I was sort of enjoying the latest episode of
> "Angel"...
>
> But then they had to go and ruin it with that UTTER COP-OUT of an
> ending, the whole bogus "go back in time and make it never happen"
> schlock that seems to happen in practically every Star Trek series AND
> movie over and over again.
>

> It's a sure sign of a writer who doesn't know their job, to set up an
> episode with all of these MAJOR, FAR-REACHING actions and
> consequences, only to reverse it all in the last 5 minutes with some
> "hand of god" coming out of NOWHERE and fixing everything back to the
> way it was.
>

> Obviously, they wanted some juicy promo scenes for november sweeps but
> didn't REALLY want to deal with the true consequences of such scenes,
> hence the cop out ending.
>

> VERY disappointing.

And you know what? I was also disappointed when the alternate universe
just sorta vanished, with that kick-ass Willow vamp et al.

But what happened? They brought it back. They PLANNED THAT from the time
of the alt.universe's conception, I'm sure of it.

Trust in Joss. He knows what he's doing.

the Net Prophet


Don Sample

unread,
Nov 25, 1999, 3:00:00 AM11/25/99
to
In article <383D6D22...@home.com>, the Net Prophet
<net.p...@home.com> wrote:

> To all the people saying "Buffy has ripped off Star Trek," I would just
> like to point out that Star Trek ripped off other people. For instance,
> who in their right mind would disagree that the Borg are nothing more than
> glorified Cybermen from Dr. Who?! Borg: "Resistance is Futile."
> Cybermen: "Resistence is Useless!"
> Borg: a cyborg race of for biological entities which assimilate and kill
> for their Collective mind.
> Cybermen: a cyborg race of former human entities which kill for their
> collective mind.
>
> Dr. Who started in the 60s. TNG started in the 80s. Who ripped off who?
> DId anyone complain? Nut up or shut up, Hardcore Holly says :-)


Everyone rips of everyone else. Shakespeare never had an original plot
in his life. Neither did Homer. They guy who made up the Gilgamesh
story stole it from some earlier, forgotten legends.

--
Don Sample, dsa...@synapse.net
Visit the Buffy Body Count at http://www.synapse.net/~dsample/BBC
Quando omni flunkus moritati

Molly Moloney

unread,
Nov 29, 1999, 3:00:00 AM11/29/99
to
Spoiler space for I will remember you
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(Flagg) writes:

>But then they had to go and ruin it with that UTTER COP-OUT of an
>ending, the whole bogus "go back in time and make it never happen"
>schlock that seems to happen in practically every Star Trek series AND
>movie over and over again.

Many people have been complaining about the reset button aspect of this
episode. Though I don't disagree entirely, I do think that this may not be a
completely accurate description of what occurred. For, the final result wasn't
quite "go back in time and make it never happen." For Buffy it was, certainly.
But for Angel, not at all. He will have one more thing to add to his pile of
angst. Also he now knows about the coming end of days. I'm not saying that
there was nothing trite about the ending or that it wasn't a bit of a cop out,
but I don't think it was quite the reset that many people do.


--
Molly

Flagg

unread,
Nov 29, 1999, 3:00:00 AM11/29/99
to

I never said Star Trek invented the concept...there isn't a single
original thought in any star trek episode or movie...I was just
pointing out how OFTEN they use the device.

On Thu, 25 Nov 1999 17:12:43 GMT, the Net Prophet
<net.p...@home.com> wrote:

>To all the people saying "Buffy has ripped off Star Trek," I would just
>like to point out that Star Trek ripped off other people. For instance,
>who in their right mind would disagree that the Borg are nothing more than
>glorified Cybermen from Dr. Who?! Borg: "Resistance is Futile."
>Cybermen: "Resistence is Useless!"
>Borg: a cyborg race of for biological entities which assimilate and kill
>for their Collective mind.
>Cybermen: a cyborg race of former human entities which kill for their
>collective mind.
>
>Dr. Who started in the 60s. TNG started in the 80s. Who ripped off who?
>DId anyone complain? Nut up or shut up, Hardcore Holly says :-)
>

>Flagg wrote:
>
>> SPOILERS.
>> .
>> .
>> .
>> .
>> .
>> .
>> .
>> .
>> .
>> .
>> .
>> .
>> .
>> .
>> .
>> .
>>
>> Okay, up until the end, I was sort of enjoying the latest episode of
>> "Angel"...
>>

>> But then they had to go and ruin it with that UTTER COP-OUT of an
>> ending, the whole bogus "go back in time and make it never happen"
>> schlock that seems to happen in practically every Star Trek series AND
>> movie over and over again.
>>

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