Viewing Buffy and Angel flashbacks chronologically

Rae D Stabosz

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Jun 7, 2004, 3:15:47 PM6/7/04

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Ever since I started watching my Angel Season 2 DVD set, I can't get it
out of my head that I want to see all of the flashbacks in chronological
order. I want to view the flashbacks from Buffy and the flashbacks from
Angel, all strung together to see what type of linear story would result.
The flashbacks always contain thematic elements from the story in the
present, so it would be cool to see how much one needed to know of the
story in the present to make sense out of the past.

This idea has taken hold of me so strongly, that I figure somebody else
has done such a thing already. Or at least made a chronology of flashbacks
with the episodes documented, so one could watch them in order. Before I
start trying to do this myself, I thought I'd see if anybody out there has
done this or knows of a useful site for this project. I tried googling a
bunch of different phrases but couldn't find anything that got me what I
wanted.

I did run across some nifty material while searching, though, like "Family
Blood is Always the Sweetest: The Gothic Transgressions of Angel/Angelus."

Any help would be appreciated. Thanks!

Rae

Micky DuPree

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Jun 7, 2004, 4:11:30 PM6/7/04

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Spoilers for a lot of _Buffy_ and _Angel_.

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sta...@intention.nss.udel.edu (Rae D Stabosz) writes:

: Any help would be appreciated. Thanks!

I haven't heard of any premade sites, though that doesn't mean there
aren't any.

Off the top of my head:

1) The making of the First Slayer in pre-prehistory, sometime in the late
_Buffy_ seasons.

2) Something to do with a medieval knighthood and the guarding of the Key
in _Buffy_. Someone who cared about that plot line would be better able
to help you there.

3) The vamping of Darla in the 1600s in "Darla."

4) The last mortal days of Liam in "The Prodigal."

5) The last carousing and the vamping of Liam in "Becoming."

6) The earliest days of Angelus in "The Prodigal."

7) Darla introduces Angelus to the Master in "Darla."

8) I think all of the stuff about Holtz comes here but again, someone
who liked Holtz might remember better.

9) The scenes leading up to the vamping of Drusilla in "Dear Boy."

10) The last days and the vamping of William, Spike drinking his mother,
and the gang subsequently hiding out in Yorkshire in "Fool for Love."

11) Angelus drinking the gypsy girl in "Five by Five."

12) Angel newly cursed by gypsies in "Becoming."

13) Newly ensouled Angel going back to Darla in "Five by Five" and not
having much luck.

14) Darla and family laying waste to what's left of the gypsies in
"Darla."

15) Spike killing the Chinese Slayer in "Fool for Love" and rejoining the
others.

16) In "Darla," kind of concurrent with the last one: Angel spares a
missionary family and rejoins the others in China. Followed by Darla
presenting the spared baby to Angel to test his willingness to be evil.

17) Angel the submariner in "Why We Fight." Feh.

18) The vampire without a cause in "Are You Now, or Have You Ever ..."

19) Giles, Ethan, et al. summoning Eyghon in "The Dark Age."

20) Spike killing the New York City Slayer in "Fool for Love."

21) Whistler picking Stink Guy up in a NYC alley in 1996 and showing him
the Slayer being approached and initiated by her first Watcher.

Those are the ones I can think of. I've probably missed some.

-Micky

Don Sample

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Jun 7, 2004, 5:31:22 PM6/7/04

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In article <ca2i5i$6rt$1...@pcls4.std.com>, Micky DuPree
<MDu...@theworld.com.snip.to.reply> wrote:

> Spoilers for a lot of _Buffy_ and _Angel_.
>
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
>
> sta...@intention.nss.udel.edu (Rae D Stabosz) writes:
>
> : Any help would be appreciated. Thanks!
>
> I haven't heard of any premade sites, though that doesn't mean there
> aren't any.
>
> Off the top of my head:
>
> 1) The making of the First Slayer in pre-prehistory, sometime in the late
> _Buffy_ seasons.

This is never shown in a flashback. The First Slayer turns up in
people's dreams in "Restless," "Intervention," and "Weight of the
World," and Buffy meets the Shadowmen and they try to repeat the
ceremony that created the First Slayer with her, to give her a power
boost, but she doesn't let them finish it in "Get it Done."

> 2) Something to do with a medieval knighthood and the guarding of the Key
> in _Buffy_. Someone who cared about that plot line would be better able
> to help you there.

This is never shown. There is a "two months ago" flashback in "No
Place Like Home" that shows the monks doing the spell that created
Dawn.

> 3) The vamping of Darla in the 1600s in "Darla."
>
> 4) The last mortal days of Liam in "The Prodigal."
>
> 5) The last carousing and the vamping of Liam in "Becoming."
>
> 6) The earliest days of Angelus in "The Prodigal."
>
> 7) Darla introduces Angelus to the Master in "Darla."
>
> 8) I think all of the stuff about Holtz comes here but again, someone
> who liked Holtz might remember better.
>
> 9) The scenes leading up to the vamping of Drusilla in "Dear Boy."
>
> 10) The last days and the vamping of William, Spike drinking his mother,
> and the gang subsequently hiding out in Yorkshire in "Fool for Love."

Also Spike taking Dru home to meet his mother, in "Lies My Parents Told
Me."

> 11) Angelus drinking the gypsy girl in "Five by Five."
>
> 12) Angel newly cursed by gypsies in "Becoming."
>
> 13) Newly ensouled Angel going back to Darla in "Five by Five" and not
> having much luck.
>
> 14) Darla and family laying waste to what's left of the gypsies in
> "Darla."
>
> 15) Spike killing the Chinese Slayer in "Fool for Love" and rejoining the
> others.
>
> 16) In "Darla," kind of concurrent with the last one: Angel spares a
> missionary family and rejoins the others in China. Followed by Darla
> presenting the spared baby to Angel to test his willingness to be evil.
>
> 17) Angel the submariner in "Why We Fight." Feh.
>
> 18) The vampire without a cause in "Are You Now, or Have You Ever ..."
>
> 19) Giles, Ethan, et al. summoning Eyghon in "The Dark Age."
>

Spike first fighting Nikki Wood in Central Park, with her son Robin
watching from behind a park bench, in "Lies My Parents Told Me."

> 20) Spike killing the New York City Slayer in "Fool for Love."
>
> 21) Whistler picking Stink Guy up in a NYC alley in 1996 and showing him
> the Slayer being approached and initiated by her first Watcher.
>
> Those are the ones I can think of. I've probably missed some.
>
> -Micky
>

--
Don Sample, dsa...@synapse.net
Visit the Buffy Body Count at http://homepage.mac.com/dsample/
Quando omni flunkus moritati

William George Ferguson

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Jun 7, 2004, 6:00:57 PM6/7/04

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On Mon, 7 Jun 2004 20:11:30 +0000 (UTC),
MDu...@theworld.com.snip.to.reply (Micky DuPree) wrote:

>Spoilers for a lot of _Buffy_ and _Angel_.
>
>.
>.
>.
>.
>.
>.
>.
>.
>.
>.
>
>sta...@intention.nss.udel.edu (Rae D Stabosz) writes:
>
>: Any help would be appreciated. Thanks!
>
>I haven't heard of any premade sites, though that doesn't mean there
>aren't any.
>
>Off the top of my head:
>
>1) The making of the First Slayer in pre-prehistory, sometime in the late
>_Buffy_ seasons.

Moloch being trapped in the book the first time, from IRYJ.

>2) Something to do with a medieval knighthood and the guarding of the Key
>in _Buffy_. Someone who cared about that plot line would be better able
>to help you there.

I don't remember any actual flashbacks to medeival times. The first
flashback was just to August, and monks dawnizing the Key

>3) The vamping of Darla in the 1600s in "Darla."
>
>4) The last mortal days of Liam in "The Prodigal."
>
>5) The last carousing and the vamping of Liam in "Becoming."
>
>6) The earliest days of Angelus in "The Prodigal."
>
>7) Darla introduces Angelus to the Master in "Darla."
>
>8) I think all of the stuff about Holtz comes here but again, someone
>who liked Holtz might remember better.

Yeah, the late 1700s.

Followed by the flashbacks in Heartthrob, to James and Elizabeth (unless
you were counting that as part of the Holtz stuff)

>9) The scenes leading up to the vamping of Drusilla in "Dear Boy."

And Becoming

>10) The last days and the vamping of William, Spike drinking his mother,
>and the gang subsequently hiding out in Yorkshire in "Fool for Love."

The noxious 'Immortal flashback in The Girl In Question

>11) Angelus drinking the gypsy girl in "Five by Five."
>
>12) Angel newly cursed by gypsies in "Becoming."
>
>13) Newly ensouled Angel going back to Darla in "Five by Five" and not
>having much luck.
>
>14) Darla and family laying waste to what's left of the gypsies in
>"Darla."
>
>15) Spike killing the Chinese Slayer in "Fool for Love" and rejoining the
>others.
>
>16) In "Darla," kind of concurrent with the last one: Angel spares a
>missionary family and rejoins the others in China. Followed by Darla
>presenting the spared baby to Angel to test his willingness to be evil.

Angel arrives at Ellis Island (very early 20th century) in Orpheus

Angel saves dog from car (30s)in Orpheus

>17) Angel the submariner in "Why We Fight." Feh.

>18) The vampire without a cause in "Are You Now, or Have You Ever ..."

Angel fails to save soda jerk (played by Nate Dushku), then drinks from
him while he's dying, in Orpheus (officially becomes Stink Guy) (70s,
since he's listening to his favorite singer sing his favorite song on the
juke box).

>19) Giles, Ethan, et al. summoning Eyghon in "The Dark Age."
>
>20) Spike killing the New York City Slayer in "Fool for Love."
>
>21) Whistler picking Stink Guy up in a NYC alley in 1996 and showing him
>the Slayer being approached and initiated by her first Watcher.
>
>Those are the ones I can think of. I've probably missed some.
>
>-Micky

--
You've reached the Tittles. We can't come to the phone right now
If you want to leave a message for Christine, Press 1
For Bentley, Press 2
Or to speak to, or worship, Master Tarfall, Underlord of Pain, Press 3

Eric Hunter

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Jun 7, 2004, 8:52:18 PM6/7/04

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William George Ferguson wrote:
> On Mon, 7 Jun 2004 20:11:30 +0000 (UTC),
> MDu...@theworld.com.snip.to.reply (Micky DuPree) wrote:

>> 2) Something to do with a medieval knighthood and the guarding of
>> the Key in _Buffy_. Someone who cared about that plot line would be
>> better able to help you there.
>

> I don't remember any actual flashbacks to medieval times. The first

> flashback was just to August, and monks dawnizing the Key

If memory serves, the medieval flashback(s) is/are in the movie.

E.
--

LadyLuck

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Jun 8, 2004, 1:14:16 AM6/8/04

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"William George Ferguson" <wmgf...@newsguy.com> wrote in message
news:5eo9c01afilh0nogk...@4ax.com...

Hrm, I don't recall if it was done as flashbacks but in the 1950s?,
Angel at the Hyperion Hotel and the bank teller who stole the cash.

Paul Ciszek

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Jun 8, 2004, 1:20:10 AM6/8/04

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In article <ca2i5i$6rt$1...@pcls4.std.com>,
Micky DuPree <MDu...@theworld.com.snip.to.reply> wrote:
>

>I haven't heard of any premade sites, though that doesn't mean there
>aren't any.
>
>Off the top of my head:
>

>12) Angel newly cursed by gypsies in "Becoming."
>
>13) Newly ensouled Angel going back to Darla in "Five by Five" and not
>having much luck.
>
>14) Darla and family laying waste to what's left of the gypsies in
>"Darla."
>
>15) Spike killing the Chinese Slayer in "Fool for Love" and rejoining the
>others.

Nope--Angelus was clearly still Angelus in that scene from "Fool for Love".

--
Please reply to: | "I'm a blood sucking fiend. Look at
pciszek at panix dot com | my outfit!"

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Jun 8, 2004, 3:37:25 PM6/8/04

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sta...@intention.nss.udel.edu (Rae D Stabosz) wrote in message news:<ca2et3$8dr$1...@scrotar.nss.udel.edu>...

> I want to see all of the flashbacks in chronological
> order. I want to view the flashbacks from Buffy and the flashbacks from
> Angel, all strung together to see what type of linear story would result.
> The flashbacks always contain thematic elements from the story in the
> present, so it would be cool to see how much one needed to know of the
> story in the present to make sense out of the past.

It would be interesting. Only problem would be suspending belief while
Liam/Angelus/Angel keeps changing age for no apparent reason.

himiko

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Jun 8, 2004, 5:49:31 PM6/8/04

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MDu...@theworld.com.snip.to.reply (Micky DuPree) wrote in message news:<ca2i5i$6rt$1...@pcls4.std.com>...

> Spoilers for a lot of _Buffy_ and _Angel_.
>
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
>

There are also the Spike flashbacks that do not include Angel:

1. S/D in Rio where she dated a slime demon (chaos demon?) and told
Spike that she already knew he loved the slayer.

2. S/D in Italy as beats in the 1950s.

3. Spike killing Nikki in FFL and then the later battles with Nikki
in S7.

himiko

Micky DuPree

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Jun 10, 2004, 1:06:54 PM6/10/04

to

Spoilers for _Buffy_ and _Angel_. Lots of 'em.

I've gone back through the list and the comments and added dates for
some flashbacks. I should have asked Rae if she wants to include
exposition about historical events as well as flashbacks, e.g., Boone
talking about fighting with Angel over a senorita in Juarez in the 1920s
in "Blood Money," Angel saying that he was in Montana during the Great
Depression in "City of," and Angel talking about hanging out in Las
Vegas around the time of the Rat Pack in, I think, "The House Always
Wins."

1) The making of the First Slayer in pre-prehistory, sometime in the
late _Buffy_ seasons.

Don Sample: This is never shown in a flashback. The First

Slayer turns up in people's dreams in "Restless,"
"Intervention," and "Weight of the World," and Buffy meets the
Shadowmen and they try to repeat the ceremony that created the
First Slayer with her, to give her a power boost, but she
doesn't let them finish it in "Get it Done."

So Slayer dreams about the past don't count?

2) Something to do with a medieval knighthood and the guarding of the
Key in _Buffy_. Someone who cared about that plot line would be better
able to help you there.

Don Sample: This is never shown. There is a "two months ago"

flashback in "No Place Like Home" that shows the monks doing the
spell that created Dawn.

O.K., so this wasn't actually medieval, just the trappings. Honestly, I
was having trouble paying attention by that point.

Eric Hunter: If memory serves, the medieval flashback(s) is/are
in the movie.

That's right, Buffy has a Slayer dream of an earlier incarnation in the
movie.

William George Ferguson: Moloch being trapped in the book the
first time, from IRYJ. (1418)

3) The vamping of Darla in the 1600s in "Darla." (1609)

4) The last mortal days of Liam in "The Prodigal." (1753)

5) The last carousing and the vamping of Liam in "Becoming," pt.1.
(1753)

6) The earliest days of Angelus in "The Prodigal." (1753)

7) Darla introduces Angelus to the Master in "Darla." (1760)

8) I think all of the stuff about Holtz comes here but again, someone
who liked Holtz might remember better.

William George Ferguson: Yeah, the late 1700s.

Followed by the flashbacks in Heartthrob, to James and Elizabeth
(unless you were counting that as part of the Holtz stuff)

(1767)

Actually, I had forgotten about James and Elizabeth, and I shouldn't
have, since there was nothing technically wrong with them.

9) The scenes leading up to the vamping of Drusilla in "Dear Boy."

(1860)

William George Ferguson: And Becoming [pt.1] (1860)

*D'oh!*

10) The last days and the vamping of William, Spike drinking his

mother ... (1880)

Don Sample: Also Spike taking Dru home to meet his mother, in
"Lies My Parents Told Me." (1880)

Right. It wasn't in "Fool for Love" that Spike killed his mother. That
should come in between the vamping of William and the Yorkshire
flashback.

... and the gang subsequently hiding out in Yorkshire in "Fool for
Love." (1880)

William George Ferguson: The noxious 'Immortal flashback in The
Girl In Question

Tut tut. :) It gave me a giggle.

11) Angelus drinking the gypsy girl in "Five by Five." (1898)

12) Angel newly cursed by gypsies in "Becoming," pt.1. (1898)

13) Newly ensouled Angel going back to Darla in "Five by Five" and not

having much luck. (1898)

14) Darla and family laying waste to what's left of the gypsies in

"Darla." (1898)

Don Sample: There's another flashback in "Darla" when Angel

finds her in China, and begs her to give him a chance to show
that he can be like he was, even though he has the soul now.

(1900)

That's right. For some reason I was thinking that was an excised scene
from the original script, but it's in the finished product.

15) Spike killing the Chinese Slayer in "Fool for Love" and rejoining

the others. (1900)

16) In "Darla," kind of concurrent with the last one: Angel spares a
missionary family and rejoins the others in China. Followed by Darla
presenting the spared baby to Angel to test his willingness to be evil.

(1900)

William George Ferguson: Angel arrives at Ellis Island (very

early 20th century) in Orpheus

William George Ferguson: Angel saves dog from car (30s)in
Orpheus

Yow, I ought to remember those better even if I didn't like them.

17) Angel the submariner in "Why We Fight." (194?)

18) The vampire without a cause in "Are You Now or Have You Ever
Been ..." (1952)

LadyLuck: Hrm, I don't recall if it was done as flashbacks but

in the 1950s?, Angel at the Hyperion Hotel and the bank teller
who stole the cash.

I called that one "vampire without a cause" because the 1952 flashbacks
seemed to have been done partly as an homage to the film _Rebel Without
a Cause_ and also because Angel himself had nothing to fight for.

himiko: S/D in Italy as beats in the 1950s.

Lord, I don't even remember that one. What episode?

William George Ferguson: Angel fails to save soda jerk (played

by Nate Dushku), then drinks from him while he's dying, in
Orpheus (officially becomes Stink Guy) (70s, since he's
listening to his favorite singer sing his favorite song on the
juke box).

Can we be sure the jukebox was up to date, though?

19) Giles, Ethan, et al. summoning Eyghon in "The Dark Age." (1970s)

If we're being technical, then this was a dream, too, although later
backed up by Giles' testimony.

Don Sample: Spike first fighting Nikki Wood in Central Park,

with her son Robin watching from behind a park bench, in "Lies

My Parents Told Me." (1977?)

20) Spike killing the New York City Slayer in "Fool for Love." (1977)

21) Whistler picking Stink Guy up in a NYC alley in 1996 and showing him

the Slayer being approached and initiated by her first Watcher in
"Becoming," pt.1. (1996)

himiko: S/D in Rio where she dated a slime demon (chaos demon?)

and told Spike that she already knew he loved the slayer.

(1998)

True, that was a flashback in "Fool for Love," but it was to a time that
was encompassed in the series' story time (i.e., to 1998 around the
Northern Hemisphere's summer). I don't know if that meets the original
poster's criteria.

-Micky

Terry

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Jun 10, 2004, 1:46:25 PM6/10/04

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"Micky DuPree" <MDu...@theworld.com.snip.to.reply> wrote in message
news:caa4fe$qac$1...@pcls4.std.com...

> Spoilers for _Buffy_ and _Angel_. Lots of 'em.
>

> himiko: S/D in Italy as beats in the 1950s.
>
> Lord, I don't even remember that one. What episode?

All part of The Girl In Question. We see them, for a *very* short time. They
say "ciao, ciao, ciao," I think. It's black-and-white and possibly the best
part of the episode.

>
>
> William George Ferguson: Angel fails to save soda jerk (played
> by Nate Dushku), then drinks from him while he's dying, in
> Orpheus (officially becomes Stink Guy) (70s, since he's
> listening to his favorite singer sing his favorite song on the
> juke box).
>
> Can we be sure the jukebox was up to date, though?

I thought the clothes screamed 70s, but I'm working off memory here.

Terry

Don Sample

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Jun 10, 2004, 3:12:40 PM6/10/04

to

In article <caa4fe$qac$1...@pcls4.std.com>, Micky DuPree
<MDu...@theworld.com.snip.to.reply> wrote:

> Spoilers for _Buffy_ and _Angel_. Lots of 'em.
>
>
>
> I've gone back through the list and the comments and added dates for
> some flashbacks. I should have asked Rae if she wants to include
> exposition about historical events as well as flashbacks, e.g., Boone
> talking about fighting with Angel over a senorita in Juarez in the 1920s
> in "Blood Money," Angel saying that he was in Montana during the Great
> Depression in "City of," and Angel talking about hanging out in Las
> Vegas around the time of the Rat Pack in, I think, "The House Always
> Wins."
>
>
> 1) The making of the First Slayer in pre-prehistory, sometime in the
> late _Buffy_ seasons.
>
> Don Sample: This is never shown in a flashback. The First
> Slayer turns up in people's dreams in "Restless,"
> "Intervention," and "Weight of the World," and Buffy meets the
> Shadowmen and they try to repeat the ceremony that created the
> First Slayer with her, to give her a power boost, but she
> doesn't let them finish it in "Get it Done."
>
> So Slayer dreams about the past don't count?

But they aren't dreams about the past. The First Slayer turned up in
their dreams about the present. She was stalking them in their dreams
of modern day Sunnydale, backstage at Willow's drama class, in
Sunnydale high, Xander's basement, backstage at the Bronze, etc. When
Buffy met her in the desert there was no indication that Buffy was
visiting or reliving the past. She was seeing and interacting the
First Slayer in the present.

>
> Actually, I had forgotten about James and Elizabeth, and I shouldn't
> have, since there was nothing technically wrong with them.

Except I got the impression that they just filed the serial numbers of
a Spike and Dru story that had been sitting in someone's drawer for a
while.

Terry

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Jun 10, 2004, 4:48:52 PM6/10/04

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"Don Sample" <dsa...@synapse.net> wrote in message

news:100620041512406574%dsa...@synapse.net...

Agreed. Wholeheartedly.

Clairel

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Jun 11, 2004, 12:25:11 PM6/11/04

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"Terry" <none> wrote in message news:<10ch7m8...@corp.supernews.com>...

--The date "1976" actually flashed on the screen, just as the dates
"1902" and "1924" flashed on the screen in previous scenes in Orpheus.
I remember because I was thinking that Whistler contacted Angel in
1996, so that means Angel spent exactly twenty years in the gutter.

Clairel

Rae D Stabosz

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Jun 11, 2004, 12:50:58 PM6/11/04

to

In article <caa4fe$qac$1...@pcls4.std.com>,
Micky DuPree <MDu...@theworld.com.snip.to.reply> wrote:

>Spoilers for _Buffy_ and _Angel_. Lots of 'em.
>
>
>
>I've gone back through the list and the comments and
>added dates for
>some flashbacks. I should have asked Rae if she wants to include
>exposition about historical events as well as flashbacks,
>e.g., Boone
>talking about fighting with Angel over a senorita in
>Juarez in the 1920s
>in "Blood Money," Angel saying that he was in Montana
>during the Great
>Depression in "City of," and Angel talking about hanging
>out in Las
>Vegas around the time of the Rat Pack in, I think, "The
>House Always
>Wins."
>

Wow! To Mickey, Don, Eric, M.G. Ferguson, himiko, and
everybody who responded, THANK YOU SO MUCH!!!

I do not want the exposition about historical events, just
the flashbacks themselves. I want to string just these
together to see what kind of narrative we get.

Speaking of which: is there anyone out there who might like
to tackle this project for me for a modest honorarium? I
cannot pay professional video editing prices, but if
there's a Buffy/Angel aficionado to whom this project might
appeal, I could give a modest amount in appreciation of the
labor of love it would be. Plus, of course, a copy of the
product (with appropriate disclaimers, to be viewed only in
the privacy of one's own home, never for profit etc. etc.)

If this interests you and you've done any video editing or
have access to equipment and always wanted to try your hand
at it, send me email and we'll talk details. Thanks!

PS I've been on the Internet since before there was an
Internet -- doing electronic communication for 25 years
now. Don't try and scam me, I am pretty well scam proof and
get testy when I'm played.

Good-hearted people please ignore that last paragraph, it's
just that there are a lot of jackals out there and I want
to make myself clear.

Rae

Micky DuPree

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Jun 12, 2004, 1:30:14 AM6/12/04

to

Spoilers for _Buffy_, later seasons; _Angel_, "Heartthrob."

.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.

.
.
.
.

Don Sample <dsa...@synapse.net> writes:

: In article <caa4fe$qac$1...@pcls4.std.com>, Micky DuPree
: <MDu...@theworld.com.snip.to.reply> wrote:

:: 1) The making of the First Slayer in pre-prehistory, sometime in the

:: late _Buffy_ seasons.
::
:: Don Sample: This is never shown in a flashback. The First
:: Slayer turns up in people's dreams in "Restless,"
:: "Intervention," and "Weight of the World," and Buffy meets the
:: Shadowmen and they try to repeat the ceremony that created the
:: First Slayer with her, to give her a power boost, but she
:: doesn't let them finish it in "Get it Done."
::
:: So Slayer dreams about the past don't count?
:
: But they aren't dreams about the past. The First Slayer turned up in
: their dreams about the present.

Let me do this _Jeopardy_ style and put it in the form of a question.
Didn't we see a scene depicting the making of the First Slayer by a
bunch of shamen? If so, was it in flashback or in a dream or what? If
not, then did I dream this sequence myself?

:: Actually, I had forgotten about James and Elizabeth, and I shouldn't

:: have, since there was nothing technically wrong with them.
:
: Except I got the impression that they just filed the serial numbers of
: a Spike and Dru story that had been sitting in someone's drawer for a
: while.

So? I thought it was an interesting reworking that Darla and Angel had
tried having traveling companions before Dru and Spike.

-Micky

Alane Sue

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Jun 12, 2004, 10:53:57 AM6/12/04

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>Subject: Re: Viewing Buffy and Angel flashbacks chronologically
>From: MDu...@theworld.com.snip.to.reply (Micky DuPree)

>Let me do this _Jeopardy_ style and put it in the form of a question.
>Didn't we see a scene depicting the making of the First Slayer by a
>bunch of shamen? If so, was it in flashback or in a dream or what? If
>not, then did I dream this sequence myself?

If you did, then we had the same dream, because I
remember it as well. The shadow casters from the
Slayer's bag told the story of the First Slayer in
"Get It Done."

Alane
Elizabeth Glaser Pediatric AIDS Fundraiser
members.ebay.com/aboutme/alanesue

Don Sample

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Jun 12, 2004, 1:56:19 PM6/12/04

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In article <cae4d6$3aj$1...@pcls4.std.com>, Micky DuPree
<MDu...@theworld.com.snip.to.reply> wrote:

Do they did not show the creation of the First Slayer (unless you count
the highly symbolic shadow puppet play in _Get it Done_)

Ch...@nospam.com

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Jun 13, 2004, 1:00:08 PM6/13/04

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In article <120620041356191402%dsa...@synapse.net>, Don Sample
<dsa...@synapse.net> wrote:

actually they did. via the attempt to recreate that moment with Buffy.
to bring to her the pure, untainted power that created the Slayers.
Which as I believe you pointed out, she refused to go along with in
said ep.

himiko

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Jun 14, 2004, 4:17:48 PM6/14/04

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sta...@intention.nss.udel.edu (Rae D Stabosz) wrote in message news:<cacnti$8un$1...@scrotar.nss.udel.edu>...

>
> Wow! To Mickey, Don, Eric, M.G. Ferguson, himiko, and
> everybody who responded, THANK YOU SO MUCH!!!

You're welcome. I think this is an interesting idea, but....

>
> I do not want the exposition about historical events, just
> the flashbacks themselves. I want to string just these
> together to see what kind of narrative we get.

...I question that you'd get a full narrative without including some
of the expositionary parts. Certainly I think the puppet drama about
the creation of the first slayer needs to be included, and probably
also Angel's first blurted out confession about how he got that soul
or his first meetings with Darla in Sunnydale. That last is now a
part of the past in itself, and it references earlier events. Also,
Gile's records like the nailing of puppies to people's doors, and
Anya's expositions about past events (including one ascension) that
are not directly related to Scoobies but do have an impact on them in
that some of these events shaped the world they live in: like the
Russian Revolution, for example.

I'm not trying to be discouraging. I think your idea is intriguing.
I'm just pointing out that reconstructing a narrative of DADS might be
a much more complex task than just putting scenes together on video
tape. If you find someone to help you with this, you might want to
consider including some exposition scenes, and possibly your own
voice-over in places.

himiko