When did Tarn Vedra disappear?
Ann Johnson
When did Tarn Vedra get cut off from the slipstream? I can't remember if
Dylan knew about it when he and Andromeda were rescued from the black hole.
Did the Vedrans leave at the beginning, during, or at the end of the war?
Although the Vedrans are portrayed as noble creatures, I can't help but feel
they packed up and left when the going got rough. While the Warder Maia
gushed about how noble she felt the Vedrans are/were, I got the impression
they were following their own self-interested agenda in cutting off the home
world and then their little vacation planet from the rest of the galaxies.
____________________________________________________
"Perceive the way of nature and no force of man can harm you.
Do not meet a wave head on: avoid it. You do not have to stop
force: it is easier to redirect it. Learn more ways to preserve
rather than destroy. Avoid rather than check. Check rather
than hurt. Hurt rather than maim. Maim rather than kill. For
all life is precious nor can any be replaced."
- Master Kan in the original Kung Fu
Douglas Lee
> When did Tarn Vedra get cut off from the slipstream? I can't remember if
> Dylan knew about it when he and Andromeda were rescued from the black hole.
> Did the Vedrans leave at the beginning, during, or at the end of the war?
I think the Vedrans cut themselves off from the slipstream routes about
a year going into the war with the Nietzscheans. I remember reading at
allsystems.org how a provisional capital was set up at San-Ska-Re once
it was found out that Tarn-Vedra was "gone". I don't think Dylan knew
about that until he got the update from Beka.
> Although the Vedrans are portrayed as noble creatures, I can't help but feel
> they packed up and left when the going got rough. While the Warder Maia
> gushed about how noble she felt the Vedrans are/were, I got the impression
> they were following their own self-interested agenda in cutting off the home
> world and then their little vacation planet from the rest of the galaxies.
It's probably a cultural indoctrination seeing how the Vedrans
essentially 'conquered' much of three galaxies before backing down from
their conquistadorial methods and settling as the most revered species
in the known universe. They were, after all, the 'founders' of
slipstream (literally, they found the routes--I don't think they
actually created the routes). Besides, with Dylan having been born on TV
(get it? TV? Tarn-Vedra?), he's been around Vedrans all his early life,
so that respectfulness is ingrained in his upbringing.
Tyr, obviously, was non-plussed by the whole idea of Dylan kowtowing
(reluctantly) to Admiral Uxulta at Ral-Parthia. It's Dylan's reluctance
at first that might play an interesting factor in a future Andromeda
episode. Just where do we place the Vedrans once the Commonwealth has
been restored?
--
Douglas
douglaswlee-at-netscape-dot-net
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored,
the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied chains us all
irrevocably."
-- Judge Aaron Satie
Ann Johnson
"Douglas Lee" <DouglasWL...@netscape.net> wrote in message
news:3D4445EF...@netscape.net...
> .... Just where do we place the Vedrans once the Commonwealth has
> been restored?
On trial for desertion.
Anonymous Person
their own plan on restoring order to the Universe. But on the point
of abandoning the Commonwealth. Lets take this analogy, when an arm
is infected with gangrene (believe thats what its called) doctors will
cut off the arm to save the body. Okay, sure the Vedrans cut
themselves off, but the same principle applies. The Vedran Homeworld
was the seat of the Commonwealth, and the High Guard. The
Commonwealth was losing the war, and it was just a matter of time
before the Nietzcheans invaded the Vedran System. If they took that
system they would have all of the Commonwealth's knowledge on weapons,
ship, etc. I mean, remember that episode when it was all doom and
gloom when they thought the Nietzcheans would get just like a handfull
of High Guard ships ? Or just the fact that one High Guard ship
(Andromeda) has been able to survive so many battles just proves how
powerful and how unmatched Commonwealth (really Vedran) technology
was. Why lose everything on one Battle, when you could retreat,
regroup, and win the war ? Quite frankly, from a military stand point
what they did was the smartest thing. They put themselves in a
position where any attack would be impossible so rebuilding efforts
could not be impeded, while also convincing the enemy that they were
gone and no threat. They didn't abandon the Commonwealth, because in
all reality, they are the Commonwealth.
On Sun, 28 Jul 2002 18:54:01 GMT, "Ann Johnson" <johns...@att.net>
wrote:
Douglas Lee
move as opposed to one of cowardice. I think, however, what is the crux
here is whether the other members of the Commonwealth would be so
forgiving and understanding. Most of the governments that Dylan has met
do not view with much favour about the "abandoning" of the Vedrans. We
know for a fact that the Vedrans have progressed technologically (their
tesseract technology on display at Ral-Parthia), and strategically to
isolate themselves in order to regroup and return even stronger is a
sound plan. The problem is that it's been 300 years and still counting.
The Vedrans didn't make like General Douglas MacArthur and announce, "we
will return". They just got up and left, leaving the rest of the
Commonwealth to fend for themselves with a hastily-assembled provisional
government at San-Ska-Re. When your leaders suddenly (and inexplicably)
disappear in a time of crisis, it is assuredly a demoralizing event.
From the looks of things, the leaders have just abandoned what they
were leading.
I still agree with your suggestion that the Vedrans would make
themselves appear to not be a threat while securing themselves and their
technological advances by cutting Tarn-Vedran from slipstream. The tough
part is convincing the millions who died and suffered for the past 300
years that it was all worth it.
Anonymous Person
from the Magog.. which is my prediction. I think it will come out
that the Vedrans were thinking 6 steps ahead (much like Dylan) and
they knew more about the Magog then they let on, and with that in mind
they probably were more worried about survival (and again, really the
known universe) and not the rebellion. Also, the damage the
Nietzcheans did to them Militarily was too much for them to exist
among the rest of the Universe and risk Tarn Vedran being invaded by
the Magog or their other enemies or anyone that wanted to take
advantage of their vast knowledge in their weaken state. As I
remember, a year after Tarn Vedra was cut off the Magog broke hte
treaty and invaded known space. The High Guard was in no shape to
battle anyone after what the Nietzcheans did to them. Also, in none
of the episodes or allsystems.org did it say that Tarn Vedra was cut
off from Slipstream with a couple 1000 XMC heavy Cruisers or any
military equipment that could've turned around the war. Tarn Vedra
was probably just protected by a Home Guard (with maybe a lil extra
for pomp and circumstance). I agree with you that the other members
are probably pissed at them, heck, even Dylan was mad at them in the
episode.
Also to note, Allsystems says that Tarn Vedran was inhabited by
280,000,000 Humans and over 500,000,000 Persieds, and 100,000,000
miscellaneous.
Ann Johnson
"Anonymous Person" <011...@cox.n3t> wrote in message
news:fdu8ku8e3hjc1i3c0...@4ax.com...
> Well, obviously the writers are trying to show that the Vedrans have
> their own plan on restoring order to the Universe.
I haven't seen any evidence of that. The only thing I saw was Uxulta trying
to save the Vedrans' favorite vacation spot from Kalderons who were mining
it out.
Another interesting but minor point about that episode is that Trance seems
to have never laid eyes on a live Vedran before.
Douglas Lee
I would still expect, however, that T-V would be protected by more than
just a Home Guard and a little extra. It _is_ the capital (symbolically
and operationally) of the Commonwealth, after all.
Up until and after the battle of the Witchhead nebula, the remains of
the High Guard fleet were in tatters to say the least--that is why they
were intending to make their last stand at the nebula. With T-V's
leadership realizing that the Commonwealth would likely fall after the
battle, no matter how it turned out, their defences probably
re-allocated to the Witchhead nebula so that the Vedrans could pull
their planet out of slipstream connectivity.
In that regard, your statements make good sense. Great tactics, however,
don't make for great excuses, sometimes... People think of the
here-and-now, and for the most part, they can't see five feet in front
of their face, let alone the situation years from now.
You have made a good guestimate about the story-plots of future
Andromeda episodes. I wouldn't be surprised if what happens follows your
suggestions.
Anonymous Person
even though Tarn Vedra is cut off. Obviously they're reconsolidating
systems, I mean they probably need resources after 300 years. I
really think its all going to come down to the Magog. I think after
Dylan gets a lil peace going on in Season 3, season 4 is going to be
one heck of a Battle (maybe a lil of season 3 ending) with the Vedrans
joining the fight against the Magog. And Douglas, your right on with
the fact that how the Vedrans left will make a lot of the former
worlds distrust them. I think if the series last along we will see
some good conflicts with the Kaldera (which never liked them) and the
Than, oh and of course the Nietzcheans.
Also, on the point of being away for 300 years. If you think about
it, it took Thousands of years to built up the original Vedran empire,
and it took relatively lil time for the Nietzcheans to destroy most of
their military might so taking reproduction and manufacturing into
account 300 years might not be that much time. Also, who knows maybe
they didn't know at the time how to leave after they shut themselves
in. Might of been a last resort, apocalyptic, doomsday scenario plan
with no recourse.
On Mon, 29 Jul 2002 01:01:59 GMT, "Ann Johnson" <johns...@att.net>
wrote:
>
Douglas Lee
> By that episode it shows that the Vedrans can freely move about Space
> even though Tarn Vedra is cut off. Obviously they're reconsolidating
> systems, I mean they probably need resources after 300 years. I
> really think its all going to come down to the Magog. I think after
> Dylan gets a lil peace going on in Season 3, season 4 is going to be
> one heck of a Battle (maybe a lil of season 3 ending) with the Vedrans
> joining the fight against the Magog. And Douglas, your right on with
> the fact that how the Vedrans left will make a lot of the former
> worlds distrust them. I think if the series last along we will see
> some good conflicts with the Kaldera (which never liked them) and the
> Than, oh and of course the Nietzcheans.
There are already plenty of worlds that don't trust Dylan because of
what he represents, the so-called "old order" of the Commonwealth that
fell apart. That's why he got shipped off to a prison colony ("Rose in
the Ashes"), beaten and interrogated ("Forced Perspective"), and a few
other less-than-smooth operations ("The Prince", "...Neptune's Ocean",
etc.). Most of the former Commonwealth worlds had to fend for themselves
for 300 years, and most of them probably faltered to the Nietzscheans'
(namely Drago-Kazov's) aggression. It's hard to counteract that psychology.
Then again, we could slap every government official with a copy of
Thomas Hobbes.
> Also, on the point of being away for 300 years. If you think about
> it, it took Thousands of years to built up the original Vedran empire,
> and it took relatively lil time for the Nietzcheans to destroy most of
> their military might so taking reproduction and manufacturing into
> account 300 years might not be that much time. Also, who knows maybe
> they didn't know at the time how to leave after they shut themselves
> in. Might of been a last resort, apocalyptic, doomsday scenario plan
> with no recourse.
So much for Plan B.
Ed Reppert
<DouglasWL...@netscape.net> wrote:
> Besides, with Dylan having been born on TV
> (get it? TV? Tarn-Vedra?), he's been around Vedrans all his early life,
> so that respectfulness is ingrained in his upbringing.
Kinda flies in the face of the old saw "familiarity breeds contempt",
don't it? :-)
--
Regards,
Ed
House of Curtis
>
> It's still a demoralizing event when your leadership disappears, though.
> I would still expect, however, that T-V would be protected by more than
> just a Home Guard and a little extra. It _is_ the capital (symbolically
> and operationally) of the Commonwealth, after all.
>
> Up until and after the battle of the Witchhead nebula, the remains of
> the High Guard fleet were in tatters to say the least--that is why they
> were intending to make their last stand at the nebula. With T-V's
> leadership realizing that the Commonwealth would likely fall after the
> battle, no matter how it turned out, their defences probably
> re-allocated to the Witchhead nebula so that the Vedrans could pull
> their planet out of slipstream connectivity.
But, T-Vs already knew that it would fall. Dylan told Sarah
that he was 300 years in the future and that the CW had fallen.
The T-Vs knew that they would have at least 300 years to regroup
before breaking "radio silence".
J. Martin Wendler
mighty.... and how does their planet get cut off from the slipstream? [i'm
having enough trouble understanding this version of gene roddenberry's
vision of the future...seems a little grandiose for roddenberry to have
created it?] ... later kids
"Ann Johnson" <johns...@att.net> wrote in message
news:d5X09.8057$pg2.6...@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
Papatom
>
>> Also, on the point of being away for 300 years. If you think about
>> it, it took Thousands of years to built up the original Vedran empire,
>> and it took relatively lil time for the Nietzcheans to destroy most of
>> their military might so taking reproduction and manufacturing into
>> account 300 years might not be that much time. Also, who knows maybe
>> they didn't know at the time how to leave after they shut themselves
>> in. Might of been a last resort, apocalyptic, doomsday scenario plan
>> with no recourse.
>
>So much for Plan B.
Or maybe the Vedran's take a very long time to reproduce. Or maybe
they know something that we don't?
Pops
Anonymous Person
<DouglasWL...@netscape.net> wrote:
>Anonymous Person wrote:
>
>> By that episode it shows that the Vedrans can freely move about Space
>> even though Tarn Vedra is cut off. Obviously they're reconsolidating
>> systems, I mean they probably need resources after 300 years. I
>> really think its all going to come down to the Magog. I think after
>> Dylan gets a lil peace going on in Season 3, season 4 is going to be
>> one heck of a Battle (maybe a lil of season 3 ending) with the Vedrans
>> joining the fight against the Magog. And Douglas, your right on with
>> the fact that how the Vedrans left will make a lot of the former
>> worlds distrust them. I think if the series last along we will see
>> some good conflicts with the Kaldera (which never liked them) and the
>> Than, oh and of course the Nietzcheans.
>
>There are already plenty of worlds that don't trust Dylan because of
>what he represents, the so-called "old order" of the Commonwealth that
>fell apart. That's why he got shipped off to a prison colony ("Rose in
>the Ashes"), beaten and interrogated ("Forced Perspective"), and a few
>other less-than-smooth operations ("The Prince", "...Neptune's Ocean",
>etc.). Most of the former Commonwealth worlds had to fend for themselves
>for 300 years, and most of them probably faltered to the Nietzscheans'
>(namely Drago-Kazov's) aggression. It's hard to counteract that psychology.
Yeah, if the Series lasts long enough I think we will see major
conflicts when the Vedrans reappear even if my other prediction comes
true about them saving them from the Magog. Maybe even an alliance
against the Vedrans with Dylan in the middle and he has to CHOOSE. I
mean OMG, wouldn't that be interesting. Quite frankly Dylan has a
better chance of restoring the Commonwealth than the Vedrans.
>Then again, we could slap every government official with a copy of
>Thomas Hobbes.
>
>
>> Also, on the point of being away for 300 years. If you think about
>> it, it took Thousands of years to built up the original Vedran empire,
>> and it took relatively lil time for the Nietzcheans to destroy most of
>> their military might so taking reproduction and manufacturing into
>> account 300 years might not be that much time. Also, who knows maybe
>> they didn't know at the time how to leave after they shut themselves
>> in. Might of been a last resort, apocalyptic, doomsday scenario plan
>> with no recourse.
>
>So much for Plan B.
Well after Plan A, B, C, D, E, and F are used up that only leaves G.
There always has to be a Doomsday plan. Just like the U.S. and the
Soviet Union had (and kind of has) that whole, if something bad
happens that disables our Command structure we launch a butt load of
nukes at each other and let God sort them out.
Douglas Lee
> Kinda flies in the face of the old saw "familiarity breeds contempt",
> don't it? :-)
Clichés never seem to be consistent with each other or with real life.
They're just fun combinations of words that coincide with real life once
in a while. *shrugs*
Douglas Lee
> Yeah, if the Series lasts long enough I think we will see major
> conflicts when the Vedrans reappear even if my other prediction comes
> true about them saving them from the Magog. Maybe even an alliance
> against the Vedrans with Dylan in the middle and he has to CHOOSE. I
> mean OMG, wouldn't that be interesting. Quite frankly Dylan has a
> better chance of restoring the Commonwealth than the Vedrans.
There's a rumour floating around the 'net that season 3 will have a
theme similar to this--a conflict between (ideologies, policies,
leadership of) the Restored Commonwealth and Dylan's conception of the
Commonwealth. Dylan has already showed a bit of resentment, which as
mentioned before, could open the door for a more substantial conflict later.
> Well after Plan A, B, C, D, E, and F are used up that only leaves G.
> There always has to be a Doomsday plan. Just like the U.S. and the
> Soviet Union had (and kind of has) that whole, if something bad
> happens that disables our Command structure we launch a butt load of
> nukes at each other and let God sort them out.
The U.S.-Soviet tension reached a point of detente, however. I don't
think that the Magog and the Spirit of the Abyss are too keen on
preventing mass destruction. They are "anti-creation", so to speak.
But yeah, I can see the Vedrans having some kind of ace up their
proverbial sleeves (Vedrans don't have sleeves--as far as I can tell
from Uxulta's armour-like uniform).
wbe
* Dylan returned to the past and told Sarah of the future,
* Sarah and survivors of the Andromeda's original crew head off to (I
can't think of its name at the moment),
* Tarn-Vedra presumably hears this news, too, and decides to seal itself
off temporarily.
-WBE
Mark Brown
*SNIP*
> > Although the Vedrans are portrayed as noble creatures, I can't help but
feel
> > they packed up and left when the going got rough.
Well, maybe the Vedrans didn't leave for themselves. Maybe they left for the
sake of everyone else.
Like the Vorlons and Shadows on Babylon 5 (okay, they had to get thrown out,
but the theory stands), or like Giles leaving Buffy last season.
As long as the Vedrans were around, the Commonwealth would be expecting them
to do something about the Nietzscheans. The Vedrans left because they wanted
the Commonwealth to be able to face its ~own~ demons. The fact that the
Commonwealth got its ass kicked is an example of how unprepared the "lesser
races" were.
Of course, given the Dylan-centric turn the show is taking, it's possible
that the Vedrans "knew Andromeda would survive the black hole, and were
banking on Dylan Saving the Universe."
Mark
"I've got a bad feeling about this." --Audience member, during the first
showing of AotC
Anonymous Person
time two times, the one at the Battle of Witchhead, which is one year
after Tarn Vedra cut themselves off and the other time when he went
back 298 years to meet up with Sarah. Dylan was rescued CY 10087 and
Tarn Vedra cut themselves off CY 9785. So if Dylan went back 298
years from even the earliest time he could of he would ended up in CY
9789 four years after T-V was cut off and the other time when he went
back he arrived CY 9786 at the Witchhead Nebula one year after T-V was
cut off.
Ann Johnson
"Mark Brown" <mark....@primus.ca> wrote in message
news:B%c19.1099$VG.32...@news.tor.primus.ca...
> > Ann Johnson wrote:
> *SNIP*
> > > Although the Vedrans are portrayed as noble creatures, I can't help
but
> feel
> > > they packed up and left when the going got rough.
> *SNIP*
>
> Well, maybe the Vedrans didn't leave for themselves. Maybe they left for
the
> sake of everyone else.
>
them
> to do something about the Nietzscheans. The Vedrans left because they
wanted
> the Commonwealth to be able to face its ~own~ demons.
I don't buy that -- at least with the information given on the show. The
cowards bailed. But they came back to rescue their favorite vacation
planet.
Ann Johnson
"J. Martin Wendler" <mart...@rcn.com> wrote in message
news:ai39lr$1im$1...@bob.news.rcn.net...
> are the vedrans those blu skinned four legged freaks? that are so high and
> mighty.... and how does their planet get cut off from the slipstream? [i'm
> having enough trouble understanding this version of gene roddenberry's
> vision of the future...seems a little grandiose for roddenberry to have
> created it?] ... later kids
Andromeda is loosely based on a Gene Roddenberry idea. I doubt he'd
recognize this show except for the character name Dylan Hunt and the fact
that he wakes up generations later when civilization as he knew it has
fallen.
Kanuf
First of all, great sig... lol...
Second of all... This Herc in Space idea makes me ill... watch some
script writer read through this group... and pull that very idea...
Excuse me *rushes to the washroom* *upchuck*
*wanders back*
That would be the very point... I stop watching Andromeda... well the
new episodes atleast...
--Kanuf
wbe
> and the other time when he went back 298 years to meet up with Sarah.
> Dylan was rescued CY 10087 and Tarn Vedra cut themselves off CY 9785.
Ah, so based on an *accurate* chronology of events so far, I'm wrong.
OK. :-) From just watching the show, I wasn't clear exactly which
happened first.
-WBE
John D. Yarrow
after the assassination
of the Empress.
Just maybe the Vedrans were royally pissed off (no pun meant) after the
Nietzscheans assassinated the Empress.
She wasn't just the titular head of the Systems Commonwealth; she was the
beloved leader of their race.
After spending more than 10 000 years building first their empire and then
the Commonwealth, only for
the Nietzscheans to not only tear it down, but to murder their precious
leader, too, must have roused
the Vedran populace to anger such as hadn't been seen in millennia.
Had they chosen the path of revenge, they certainly had the power to make
the Nietzscheans, and Humanity
as a whole if they so wanted, pay a much worse price. A few dozen nova
bombs aimed at the right
star systems and the Nietzscheans could have been effectively exterminated
from the known worlds.
At least all they did was pack up and leave the other races to destory
themselves.