Carrie Underwood--The New Shania?
shannonki...@yahoo.com
next Shania Twain?
The Chris
@s80g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
> Do you think that it is possible for Carrie Underwood to become the
> next Shania Twain?
>
>
Not when the old Shania is still gorgeous and putting out music. I don't
think she'll ever be in that league or put out music that good either.
She can be the next Faith Hill - that's for sure.
klund
shannonki...@yahoo.com wrote:
> Do you think that it is possible for Carrie Underwood to become the
> next Shania Twain?
Oh, definitely. Absolutely. As far as I'm concerned, she's already
there. She's a country singer who I've heard of, and I probably have
heard some of her songs, but I wouldn't make a bit of effort to listen
to her, since she sings country.
Other than the fact that one of them won AI, I can't tell them apart.
klund
Bob Rudd
klund...@gmail.com says...
IMHO, she will go much further than being the next Twain. In the end,
she may well wind up a legend.
Depends on whether she keeps her head screwed on straight. I think she
will.
--
I hope we can all be good neighbors online!
PeterL
shannonki...@yahoo.com wrote:
> Do you think that it is possible for Carrie Underwood to become the
> next Shania Twain?
Depends. If the Cowboys do well in the post seasons, she may well
become the next country superstar. If the Cowboys win it all, sky is
the limit.
star...@yahoo.com
shannonki...@yahoo.com wrote:
> Do you think that it is possible for Carrie Underwood to become the
> next Shania Twain?
Well, she's off to a good start -- another country-tart whose legs are
more important than her singing...
Mike
The Chris
@q40g2000cwq.googlegroups.com:
Here's how you tell them apart. Shania Twain is a goddess. The rest are
mediocre singers.
Shania's music single-handely crossed over country music and made it
listenable...
The Chris
@q40g2000cwq.googlegroups.com:
Way out of line.... and you've obviously never listened to how good
Shania's music is...
Bigolhomo
wrote:
Single handedly? Garth Brooks had sold about 25 million albums before
Shania ever had a record out. Not to mention the big country
explosion in the early 80's when Urban Cowboy came out.
Shania acted like a pop star instead of a country star and had
remarkable success with it. Her marketing was her innovation, not her
talent.
--
Bigolhomo
Pidge
>Do you think that it is possible for Carrie Underwood to become the
>next Shania Twain?
ROTF
No.
-------------
To send email, replace "antispam" with "sympatico"
mrbonner
She's not a superior vocalist but she's very good, and she also writes
her own music, which is something very few female vocalists do in
country music. The fact that she overcame a difficult past, and put her
career on hold to raise her siblings after her parents' death, would
earn her my respect even if I didn't like her music.
Vandar
> On Fri, 05 Jan 2007 04:05:49 GMT, "-Calliope-"
> <calliope...@remove.gmail.com> wrote:
>
> |On Thu 04 Jan 2007 09:46:19p, The Chris wrote:
> |
> |> Here's how you tell them apart. Shania Twain is a goddess. The rest are
> |> mediocre singers.
> |>
> |> Shania's music single-handely crossed over country music and made it
> |> listenable...
> |>
> |
> |Oh dear God in Heaven.. Shania... UGH...
> |
> |Cal~
>
> "From This Moment" was a great song, although I'm not generally a
> Shania fan.
Someone suggested I listen to that song right after I met my daughter...
the bastards.
flkofcguls
Plus, Shania has horrible legs. She's said so herself and insists on
wearing long dresses or skirts to cover them up.
WiNK
<shannonki...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1167946167....@s80g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Do you think that it is possible for Carrie Underwood to become the
> next Shania Twain?
Dear Lord, I hope not...... only Shania can sing country-fied Def Leppard!
Peach
>
shannonki...@yahoo.com
> I think you have her mixed up with someone else. Carrie is the
> youngest of three siblings, one of whom is 13 years older than she.
He was talking about Shania.
The Chris
news:r7irp25r0i2v74855...@4ax.com:
Male Country artists never appealed to me. I certainly didn't see his
videos as much as I saw hers.
I agree with your statement about her marketing - the rub was - she was
able to back it up with brillant music. You cannot deny how good her
CD's are.
The Chris
@s80g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
There's always been an urban myth about her having a wooden foot or
something :) I don't know if 'horrible' could ever be the case.
I think it's more like those supermodels that think they're too fat.
Mike
> > Shania acted like a pop star instead of a country star and had
> > remarkable success with it. Her marketing was her innovation, not her
> > talent.
> >
>
> Male Country artists never appealed to me. I certainly didn't see his
> videos as much as I saw hers.
>
> I agree with your statement about her marketing - the rub was - she was
> able to back it up with brillant music. You cannot deny how good her
> CD's are.
She don't impress me much ;->
Actually I kinda like her, but that song ("Don't Impress Me Much" and
"I Feel Like a Woman") is kinda lame.
She's got one helluva producer though. I wonder if he's ever worked
with any other bands ;->
Mike
callen...@yahoo.com
Ha ha.
I love her voice but my only exposure to her is on the radio and I HATE
every song of hers I've ever heard, in particular those two you've
named.
I agree that Carrie is much closer to Faith Hill in terms of style but
I'm not overly impressed with her, either. I like the edgier country
singers.
Callen in VA
WiNK
"The Chris" <cab...@nospam.hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:Xns98AF550...@64.209.0.85...
Um, I can....for two reasons: Mutt Lange. If you look up the words
"overused hook" in the dictionary, there's a picture of his face. ;-)
Peach
Locutus
"WiNK" <elvis...@yahoooooo.com> wrote in message
news:459e1...@newsfeed.slurp.net...
Through her nose none the less.
star...@yahoo.com
> > > Well, she's off to a good start -- another country-tart whose legs are
> > > more important than her singing...
> >
> > Way out of line.... and you've obviously never listened to how good
> > Shania's music is...
Actually, I have. And how she presented herself for a good year or two
made it irrelevant, because...
> Plus, Shania has horrible legs. She's said so herself and insists on
> wearing long dresses or skirts to cover them up.
She is a BAD liar, then. A couple years ago, those legs were
definitely at least a nine on a 1-10 scale.
Mike
Bigolhomo
wrote:
Her music isn't brilliant by a long shot. She makes CD's that will
appeal to the masses, not art. There's a huge difference. She's the
musical version of a Tom Cruise movie.
--
Bigolhomo
WiNK
"Locutus" <locutu...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:12ptlq4...@corp.supernews.com...
MAN, I feel like a whiner. ;-)
Peach
flkofcguls
-Calliope- wrote:
> On Fri 05 Jan 2007 06:37:03a, flkofcguls wrote:
>
> > Plus, Shania has horrible legs. She's said so herself and insists on
> > wearing long dresses or skirts to cover them up.
>
> shortest skirt I'd ever seen* on non-pay television.. and the camera man
> was below the stage pointing up her skirt.. it was not anything I wanted to
> see, that's for sure!.. (*up to that point...Beyonce and a few others have
> taken it even shorter, since)...
>
>
> I hear that woman's voice on my raido and I can't hit scan fast enough...
>
> Cal~
Hmmm. I'm not a fan of hers and with maybe two exceptions, I wouldn't
know one of her songs if it bit me in the ass, just that Still the One
song and that horrible, HORRIBLE follow-up That Don't Impress Me. And
I remember seeing an interview with her on VH1 addressing the rumors
about why she never showed her legs and she said she thought they
weren't her best attribute. I can't really tell the diff between her
and Faith Hill when I hear them on the radio. They both record country
music that's cut with baby laxative, if you ask me.
~~carl~~
Carrie can sway her hips like Shania. Thats why Shania is the most
sexiest country singer out there...well besides LeAnn Rimes..and Pam
Tillis. And among others.
motofr...@yahoo.com
shania....
don't even like shania's music but her two records had huge sales (i
think they are each top 20 of all-time, or something close. the one for
sure, maybe the other is top 40-50 all-time)
The Chris
news:1168055210....@11g2000cwr.googlegroups.com:
Then you haven't listened - it would be like me commenting on Rap music.
Take it from somebody who analyzes this stuff and spent some time playing
with Country artists - She's the best thing in the last 20 years.
The Chris
4ax.com:
> Did you actually just use the words "Leann Rimes" and "sexy" in the
> same sentence?
>
If he didn't, I surely will...
http://www.zipperfish.com/hottie/leann-rimes/wp-LeAnn_Rimes1-1024.jpg
flkofcguls
I've heard enough from both of them to know I don't like them. How
long do you need to shove a shard of glass into your eyeball to know
it's painful?
I can also comment on rap music, but I'm saving my venom up for the new
season of AI!
Bob Rudd
says...
> same sentence?
>
Consider how young Rimes is and the age she made it big when you say
that. She's already had an almost full career compared to most other
performer's standards.
Same category as Tanya Tucker. Not the easiest of lives for either,
IMHO.
--
I hope we can all be good neighbors online!
Bob Rudd
br...@whatever.com says...
There's nothing wrong with that, though, correct BOH? She's commercial
art and that's a very lucrative field. She's already at a place where
she, probably, never has to work a day again in her life while
sustaining the lifestyle she already has.
Sounds like a pretty good place to be, to me. :-)
The Chris
news:1168112958.4...@s80g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
If you don't like it.. it's not a valid comment...Both artists sell a lot
of CD's to prove that they have fans....
Coming from a guy who grew up listening to Van Halen, Motorhead, Ted
Nugent and Kiss - if it's out of anybodys comfort zone - it's out of
mine.
But her records are really good. Timeless.
Bob Rudd
flkof...@aol.com says...
I think back to Jim (not John) Belushi during his SNL and his "white guy
rap about rap".
flkofcguls
But we weren't talking about whether or not she has fans. The
conversation went from her legs to Giggles saying that she can't scan
the radio fast enough as soon as she hears Shania or Faith to me
agreeing that with her that they suck. I'm just defending my opinion
that I loathe both of their stuff. And I'm no babe in the woods when
it comes to country. I was born and raised in 70s Florida and was
weaned on 60s and 70s country music. Still, no fact proving ever
entered into this exchange.
KCC
I prefer C & W to any other genre, but it seems to me that C & W is
turning into more light rock then it is country. The last couple of
Rascal Flatts songs have not exactly been country. Shania and Faith
sure aren't of the same mold as Tammy Wynette, Loretta Lynn, and Patsy
Cline.
KCC
azurespirit
Bigolhomo wrote:
> On 5 Jan 2007 02:46:19 GMT, The Chris <cab...@nospam.hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> >"klund" <klund...@gmail.com> wrote in news:1167946918.877852.166070
> >@q40g2000cwq.googlegroups.com:
> >
> >>
> >> shannonki...@yahoo.com wrote:
> >>> Do you think that it is possible for Carrie Underwood to become the
> >>> next Shania Twain?
> >>
> >> Oh, definitely. Absolutely. As far as I'm concerned, she's already
> >> there. She's a country singer who I've heard of, and I probably have
> >> heard some of her songs, but I wouldn't make a bit of effort to listen
> >> to her, since she sings country.
> >>
> >> Other than the fact that one of them won AI, I can't tell them apart.
> >>
> >> klund
> >>
> >>
> >
> >Here's how you tell them apart. Shania Twain is a goddess. The rest are
> >mediocre singers.
> >
> >Shania's music single-handely crossed over country music and made it
> >listenable...
>
> Single handedly? Garth Brooks had sold about 25 million albums before
> Shania ever had a record out. Not to mention the big country
> explosion in the early 80's when Urban Cowboy came out.
>
> Shania acted like a pop star instead of a country star and had
> remarkable success with it. Her marketing was her innovation, not her
> talent.
>
>
> Bigolhomo
Mutt was her ace in the hole.
Bigolhomo
wrote:
No, there's not anything wrong with that at all. Good, meaningless,
catchy pop music is a staple in life. Not every artist should aspire
to be Bob Dylan or John Lennon.
But that's all Shania is. She's more of a well done marketing concept
than she is an artist. She's doing her best to be all things to all
people, as evidenced by her releasing 3 versions of her last CD to
appeal to different music markets.
--
Bigolhomo
Gooserider
Sure I can. Shania was "all sizzle, no steak". Do you think she would have
been as successful if she was average looking? Does she have a good voice?
Of course. Is she a country singer? No. Will she be able to stick around
once her looks fade? I don't think so. Country is one of a few genres in
which women have long careers----if they are good songwriters and have
talent. Dolly did it. Emmylou Harris did it. Hell, even Wynona Judd did
it---and she's BEASTLY. I don't see Shania OR Faith Hill doing it, but Faith
has a better chance than Shania.
Gooserider
"Bigolhomo" <br...@whatever.com> wrote in message
news:hr2up2p5bnpc32is1...@4ax.com...
Good point, inaccurate analogy. Shania is the musical version of a Ben
Affleck movie, if anything. Tom at least has "Born on the Fourth of July" ,
"Rain Man", and "Magnolia" to his credit.
Gooserider
"Bob Rudd" <bob...@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:RxTnh.1213$Ul4.577@trnddc05...
But her music isn't "brilliant", which was the original assertion. I can
name some country artists who make/made brilliant music---Willie Nelson,
Dolly Parton, Johnny Cash,Waylon Jennings, Rodney Crowell, Dwight Yoakam,
Buck Owens---but not Shania. She has nice abs, though.
Gooserider
Really? Better than Martina McBride? Allison Kraus? k.d. lang? Methinks not.
Gooserider
And having lots of fans has absolutely nothing to do with having
talent---unless you think the "High School Musical" kids are the best
performers of 2006.
Gooserider
"KCC" <kca...@cox.cox.net> wrote in message
news:1GWnh.38$uL1...@newsfe22.lga...
Your point is valid---and do you want to know why country is becoming what
you say? It's because programmers at country radio have noticed that their
listeners are mostly women---and women want to hear stuff like Rascal
Flatts, Shania, Faith, etc. That's also why Loretta Lynn's BRILLIANT last
CD, "Van Lear Rose" was critically praised and still received little to no
airplay on country radio. Same goes for Willie Nelson, Dolly Parton, and
most notably---Johnny Cash. The way country radio ignored Cash is a shame.
There is a burgeoning underground alt country movement, though.
The Chris
You say 'appeal to the masses' like it's an easy thing to do and a dirty
word. Her CD's are solid pieces of work with crafty songwriting and
pioneering producition values. It's not like she's releasing the country
version of 'the Macarena'.
The Chris
news:1168117530....@42g2000cwt.googlegroups.com:
Well, she doesn't appeal to traditional country fans - hence the
'crossover' tag. I can't listen to traditional country. I like 'pop'
country. So, that's where we'll always differ.
The Chris
news:1168130956....@v33g2000cwv.googlegroups.com:
She put out good stuff before she met him. Didn't sound as good, but, she
was always a good writer....
The Chris
news:ben0q259dbdq5i2bp...@4ax.com:
It would be meaningless if the CD's weren't good... You can't just market
crap, and expect it to sell because it's marketed. You can for a *little*
while, but, as somebody who has all her material - I consider it very
well done music.
The Chris
news:Xns98B0DF2B...@207.217.125.201:
> On Sat 06 Jan 2007 09:35:07a, The Chris wrote:
>
>> Take it from somebody who analyzes this stuff and spent some time
>> playing with Country artists - She's the best thing in the last 20
>> years.
>>
>
> Good lord... Chris, you do realize that your opinion is simply that..
> your opinion.. To keep insisting this, is silly. Perhaps she's the
> best thing in the last 20 years in YOUR opinion, but in mine and many
> others, nothing could be further from the truth.
>
>
Yeah, it's my opinion. But it trumps somebodys who doesn't like Country
Music...
While we're at it - rattle off somebody who's changed Country music like
her in the last 10 years...
The Chris
news:45a074be$0$4898$4c36...@roadrunner.com:
Right up there with Martina and Kraus.. Did I say they didn't have great
voices/music??
k.d. lang I don't like at all.
Gooserider
No---you said Shania was "the best thing in the last 20 years". Now, that's
a pretty bold statement---and saying she's the best means she's better than
everyone else---not that she's just as good as other artists.
KCC
country, unfortunately it is difficult to find traditional country
anymore. Oh well I have a lot of Don Williams, Willie Nelson, etc albums
to listen to.
KCC
flkofcguls
-Calliope- wrote:
> On Sat 06 Jan 2007 09:35:07a, The Chris wrote:
>
> > playing with Country artists - She's the best thing in the last 20
> > years.
> >
>
> in the last 20 years in YOUR opinion, but in mine and many others, nothing
> could be further from the truth.
Oops, sorry Calliope. I incorrectly cited Giggles when I meant to cite
you in my previous comment.
Bob Rudd
cab...@nospam.hotmail.com says...
Chris, if you're speaking to me, I'm all for those who appeal to the
broadest base. That, usually, assures the maximum amount of success.
flkofcguls
-Calliope- wrote:
> On Sun 07 Jan 2007 11:24:40a, flkofcguls wrote:
>
> > Oops, sorry Calliope. I incorrectly cited Giggles when I meant to cite
> > you in my previous comment.
>
>
> :-)
>
> Glad to see you around these parts.. missed your biting wit.
>
> Cal~
Oh, it'll be chomping on some asses in about 9 days, honey.
stunnings...@hotmail.com
unlikely to make a lasting impression in music. The whole idea of the
show is to create and market singers designed for short term success,
not artists who continue to sell their albums for years after they are
released, so unless they find a way to break away from the AI mould
then they will be forgotten about in a few years.
Shania, who actualy paid her dues, has already established herself in a
big way and I don't see any new female country artist making the same
kind of impact Shania did. I wouldn't even associate Shania with the
majority of new country, Shania's music was a healthy mix of country,
rock and pop and it sounded unique whereas most new country artists
these days sound like carbon copies of each other.
As far as the discussion of the music artistry goes, if your music is
the your own original thoughts then it is art, to say otherwise is
moronic and defeats the whole purpose of what art is. Every artist who
releases their music commercially wants it to sell, using the "art" and
"marketing" arguments as excuses for why an artist doesn't sell as well
as another is an overused fallacy. Look at Pink Floyd, how many albums
did they sell? Or how about Queen, are you going to say their music
wasn't "art" just because it isn't dark and depressing? ...or getting
back to country, how about George Strait? who's the artist, him? or the
people who write all the songs for him?
Bob Rudd
stunnings...@hotmail.com says...
> Carrie Underwood, or anyone from American Idol for that matter is
> unlikely to make a lasting impression in music. The whole idea of the
> show is to create and market singers designed for short term success,
> not artists who continue to sell their albums for years after they are
> released, so unless they find a way to break away from the AI mould
> then they will be forgotten about in a few years.
> Shania, who actualy paid her dues, has already established herself in a
> big way and I don't see any new female country artist making the same
> kind of impact Shania did. I wouldn't even associate Shania with the
> majority of new country, Shania's music was a healthy mix of country,
> rock and pop and it sounded unique whereas most new country artists
> these days sound like carbon copies of each other.
>
>
>
I've met Steve Austin. You sir are no Steve Austin. Steve Austin, I'm
reasonably confident likes Carrie Underwood's music.
:-)
The Chris
38g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
There have been a few AI artists that *have* distanced themselves from
the show - Kelly Clarkson for one. Anybody with a brain in their head,
just uses it as a springboard... Marketing 101 - whatever you have to do
- sing in front of 30 million people on National TV - do it!!
Very good point about who actually *writes* the songs in Country Music.
That's a dirty little secret.....
KCC
I don't think it is a secret at all. If I'm not mistaken on the CMA's
the Song of the Year award goes to the writer, the Single of the Year
goes to the performer. I have never seen this big deal about the
perfomrer should be the writer anyway, some people have a talent to
sing, some people have a talent to write. On occasion both talents show
up in the same person. We don't expect movie and TV stars to write the
scripts, they perform, the same for musical talent, the singers perform.
KCC
The Chris
news:KK5qh.30563$Dy2...@newsfe20.lga:
No, not a secret to industry or musicians. But, I doubt the typical
country fan cares about:
a - who played the instruments on the song
b - who wrote the song
KCC
song, I am interested in the performance. Just as an added note,
occasionally one of the country artists will write a song that another
performs, because it fits that performer better.
I just did a quick check on the internet and "The King" of rock and
roll, Elvis, wrote very few of this own songs, and I suspect that most
of his fans cared about who wrote the songs. But it is always available
on the liner notes, as well as who played the instruments.
Anyway it just bugs me some that some folks get "elitist" and think less
of some performers, like the comment above about George Strait, because
they don't write there own stuff.
KCC
KCC
The Chris
@newsfe21.lga:
Well, Elvis was in a very pioneering position. He litterally was the
first guy to make the transition from crooner (Sinatra, Darin) to rock
singer. So, the rules weren't really written yet - he wrote them. True,
he wrote very little - if anything. And I suspect a few things he has
credit on were ripped off from black artists by his manager. But, that's
just speculation.
What Elvis did - better than ANYBODY else - was his interpretation. He
could hear a hit song, and make it a great hit song. I don't think
anybody's ever come close to doing that.
Again, this is my opinion. I really, really respect Elvis...
I do think more of artists that write their own stuff. I feel I should.
But, I'm a musician too, so I'm biased.
I don't like George Strait - so I don't care... Honestly, I only like the
newer country... It's closer to rock I guess..
Again..... My opinion :)
daveparks
stunningsteveaus...@hotmail.com wrote:
> Carrie Underwood, or anyone from American Idol for that matter is
> unlikely to make a lasting impression in music.
With tens of millions of albums collectively sold, Grammy and AMA Award
noms and wins, endorsement deals, and very successful tours - all in
the relatively short time period of 6 television seasons and counting,
I think you're selling the Idol's short, as several seem to have made
at least one heckuva a first impression.
> The whole idea of the
> show is to create and market singers designed for short term success,
> not artists who continue to sell their albums for years after they are
> released, so unless they find a way to break away from the AI mould
> then they will be forgotten about in a few years.
Where do get this "designed for short term success" comment? I've
never heard or read anyone associated with the show say anything of the
like. If it's 'just' your opinion, then I disagree - as AI has only
been in production for a few short years.
> Shania, who actualy paid her dues, has already established herself in a
> big way and I don't see any new female country artist making the same
> kind of impact Shania did.
I have no idea what 'paid dues" has to do with it - why does it matter
if someone is born impovrished or with a silver spoon in their mouth,
it makes them no less or more talented than anyone else.
And Shania has been around now for almost 15yrs - of course she's
already established herself; give AI 15yrs, and I'll bet they produce
an equally popular performer; from the looks of it, they've already
struck gold with at least two of'em .. and counting.
> I wouldn't even associate Shania with the
> majority of new country, Shania's music was a healthy mix of country,
> rock and pop and it sounded unique whereas most new country artists
> these days sound like carbon copies of each other.
And wasn't that Shania's gimmick, mixing Country with Pop? Well, in
addition to sexing it up for the camera and getting the Cowpokes all
riled up. If most new country artists these days sound like carbon
copies of each other, then Twain is the Master from which that mold was
made - but why blame other performers for attempting to fit within an
already proven and very successful genre?
> As far as the discussion of the music artistry goes, if your music is
> the your own original thoughts then it is art, to say otherwise is
> moronic and defeats the whole purpose of what art is. Every artist who
> releases their music commercially wants it to sell, using the "art" and
> "marketing" arguments as excuses for why an artist doesn't sell as well
> as another is an overused fallacy. Look at Pink Floyd, how many albums
> did they sell? Or how about Queen, are you going to say their music
> wasn't "art" just because it isn't dark and depressing? ...or getting
> back to country, how about George Strait? who's the artist, him? or the
> people who write all the songs for him?
Some can be a Performing/Singing Artist, others are Song Writing
Artists, and some are both.
KCC
reasons I don't care for most the newer country. I like my music a
little softer. I like to be able to easily understand the lyrics. I am
just a sentimentalist at heart, and like ballads, story songs, and love
songs. Just to age myself, I was a teen during the "British invasion"
and there was very little of the pop stuff during that era I cared for.
KCC
stunnings...@hotmail.com
> stunningsteveaus...@hotmail.com wrote:
> > Carrie Underwood, or anyone from American Idol for that matter is
> > unlikely to make a lasting impression in music.
>
> With tens of millions of albums collectively sold, Grammy and AMA Award
> noms and wins, endorsement deals, and very successful tours - all in
> the relatively short time period of 6 television seasons and counting,
> I think you're selling the Idol's short, as several seem to have made
> at least one heckuva a first impression.
But how many of those albums and AI winners will actually be remembered
10-20 years from now? Grammy's and AMA Awards don't mean a thing, Elvis
for instance never won a single Grammy, the same can be said about a
lot of successful people. Awards and endorsements deals don't cement a
musical legacy.
> > The whole idea of the
> > show is to create and market singers designed for short term success,
> > not artists who continue to sell their albums for years after they are
> > released, so unless they find a way to break away from the AI mould
> > then they will be forgotten about in a few years.
>
> Where do get this "designed for short term success" comment? I've
> never heard or read anyone associated with the show say anything of the
> like. If it's 'just' your opinion, then I disagree - as AI has only
> been in production for a few short years.
American Idol, just like every major corporation, places priority on
making money. The most common way to do that is to take as few risks as
possible. There is a comfort zone in music and what the judges look for
is someone to fit it.
klund
stunningsteveaus...@hotmail.com wrote:
> daveparks wrote:
> > stunningsteveaus...@hotmail.com wrote:
> > > Carrie Underwood, or anyone from American Idol for that matter is
> > > unlikely to make a lasting impression in music.
> >
> > With tens of millions of albums collectively sold, Grammy and AMA Award
> > noms and wins, endorsement deals, and very successful tours - all in
> > the relatively short time period of 6 television seasons and counting,
> > I think you're selling the Idol's short, as several seem to have made
> > at least one heckuva a first impression.
>
> But how many of those albums and AI winners will actually be remembered
> 10-20 years from now?
Is that the definition of success? Just because the show might not
produce a talent as universally respected and admired as, say, Bob
Dylan or John Mayer doesn't mean that there aren't successes. If Kelly,
Clay and Carrie never sell another album they can say they "made it",
even if scholars aren't extolling their virtues in 2027.
That's just my take, though.
[snip]
> > > The whole idea of the
> > > show is to create and market singers designed for short term success,
> > > not artists who continue to sell their albums for years after they are
> > > released, so unless they find a way to break away from the AI mould
> > > then they will be forgotten about in a few years.
> >
> > Where do get this "designed for short term success" comment? I've
> > never heard or read anyone associated with the show say anything of the
> > like. If it's 'just' your opinion, then I disagree - as AI has only
> > been in production for a few short years.
>
> American Idol, just like every major corporation, places priority on
> making money. The most common way to do that is to take as few risks as
> possible. There is a comfort zone in music and what the judges look for
> is someone to fit it.
There is definitely a "milk it while you can" mentality to the Idol
empire, but I don't think it's any different than any of the major
labels. Everybody wants to find the Next Big Thing, long term appeal be
damned.
klund
klund
> But how many of those albums and AI winners will actually be remembered
> 10-20 years from now?
OK, so is Idol any different from the rest of musicdom? Go to iTunes
and check out the artists on the Top 100 downloaded songs - other than
Weird Al, who on that list will we be talking about 20 years from now?
Akon? Avril Lavigne? Corbin Bleu? Gnarls Barkley? Unk? (I don't even
*want* to know who or what Unk is)
What's the definition of success in the music industry? There can only
be so many Stones, Beatles and Snow Patrols.
(I'm not meaning to be argumentative, in case it sounds that way.)
klund
Bob Rudd
says...
> Anyway it just bugs me some that some folks get "elitist" and think less
> of some performers, like the comment above about George Strait, because
> they don't write there own stuff
>
I think, part of that, is due to C&W going through, perhaps, more
fundamental and demographic market changes than most, if not all, other
genres in the past 20 plus years.
Old style C&W, many non-fans, think of as "twang" for want of a better
term. As urban music, be it hip-hop or rap, came to dominate the music
industry, C&W began to leave twang behind and become, what was, in
essence, pop music from the 60's forward.
Jay Leno, about five years ago now I think, created a very minor
controversy because he said the C&W had become the new white music. In
the guise of a joke, he made an interesting and astute observation.
As C&W became less twang (Porter Waggoner, Johnny Cash and others) was
also the time that NASCAR started becoming a much more acceptable
suburban, yuppie sport. Both products were leaving their roots behind.
Performers like: Keith Urban, Carrie Underwood, Shania Twain and Toby
Keith being example of modern C&W.
It's no surprise then, that under the C&W tent, you have factions that
really have never seen eye to eye. Even now, someone like Gretchen
Wilson and, to a lessor extent Big and Rich, are just starting to merge
these two distinctly different groups. At the same time though, a number
of suburban, more affluent, fans of modern C&W are not fans of Wilson or
Big and Rich. I've heard the terms, "twang, trailer park music and no
class C&W" to describe the performers and their fans by a growing number
of suburban fans.
Here's an interesting social experiment, check out the crowds at a
Rascal Flatts concert. Look and listen to the folks around you and the
folks in the crowds at the concession stands. They will tell you a
great deal about the demographics and where they might be heading for
C&W.
Bob Rudd
davepa...@hotmail.com says...
>
> stunningsteveaus...@hotmail.com wrote:
> > Carrie Underwood, or anyone from American Idol for that matter is
> > unlikely to make a lasting impression in music.
>
> With tens of millions of albums collectively sold, Grammy and AMA Award
> noms and wins, endorsement deals, and very successful tours - all in
> the relatively short time period of 6 television seasons and counting,
> I think you're selling the Idol's short, as several seem to have made
> at least one heckuva a first impression.
I completely agree. AI has spawned at least 3 artists who have very
long term and successful careers ahead of them: Kelly Clarkson, Clay
Aiken and Carrie Underwood. Each may have the ups and downs of a bad CD
now and then, but if you look at the numbers and the demographics of
their fans, you come to the conclusion that these three will be around
for the long haul.
The juries still out on about 10 to 15 percent of the rest. After that,
the careers of the others are pretty much over.
>
> > The whole idea of the
> > show is to create and market singers designed for short term success,
> > not artists who continue to sell their albums for years after they are
> > released, so unless they find a way to break away from the AI mould
> > then they will be forgotten about in a few years.
>
> Where do get this "designed for short term success" comment? I've
> never heard or read anyone associated with the show say anything of the
> like. If it's 'just' your opinion, then I disagree - as AI has only
> been in production for a few short years.
Underwood and Aiken will be around for 40 plus years. Clarkson,
probably, will be as well. Her issue will be the wall around 35 when
she will either leave the rock aspect and evolve into more of a Celene
Dion higher end product or become the aging rocker babe whose career is
still pretty successful but is slowing down a bit as well.
>
> > Shania, who actualy paid her dues, has already established herself in a
> > big way and I don't see any new female country artist making the same
> > kind of impact Shania did.
>
> I have no idea what 'paid dues" has to do with it - why does it matter
> if someone is born impovrished or with a silver spoon in their mouth,
> it makes them no less or more talented than anyone else.
> And Shania has been around now for almost 15yrs - of course she's
> already established herself; give AI 15yrs, and I'll bet they produce
> an equally popular performer; from the looks of it, they've already
> struck gold with at least two of'em .. and counting.
>
> > I wouldn't even associate Shania with the
> > majority of new country, Shania's music was a healthy mix of country,
> > rock and pop and it sounded unique whereas most new country artists
> > these days sound like carbon copies of each other.
>
> And wasn't that Shania's gimmick, mixing Country with Pop?
See my previous post about modern C&W having become largely white,
affluent suburban pop music.
Bob Rudd
stunnings...@hotmail.com says...
> American Idol, just like every major corporation, places priority on
> making money. The most common way to do that is to take as few risks as
> possible. There is a comfort zone in music and what the judges look for
> is someone to fit it.
>
>
You think Elvis didn't? Or George Strait? Or Lynn Anderson?
It's always been about the green, pure and simple and it always will be.
Bob Rudd
says...
> On Sat, 13 Jan 2007 02:19:38 GMT, Bob Rudd <bob...@verizon.net>
> wrote:
>
>
> |I've met Steve Austin. You sir are no Steve Austin. Steve Austin, I'm
> |reasonably confident likes Carrie Underwood's music.
> |
> |
> |:-)
>
>
>
Steve Austin is no Democrat, that's for sure.
The Chris
There's always been factions with practially every genre of music. Both
Rock bands - you won't see the same fans at a Bon Jovi or a Judas Priest
concert. They HATE each other!!
But, that's a good thing. It means that not everybody sounds the same and
that there's a wide assortment of music.
I know just what you mean about 'Big and Rich'. There are country fans I
know that don't even CONSIDER them to be country artists.
I write this as I watch my tape of Nashville Star from Thursday.
How does Cowboy Troy fit into the whole thing??? :) Or Jewel???
Bob Rudd
cab...@nospam.hotmail.com says...
> I know just what you mean about 'Big and Rich'. There are country fans I
> know that don't even CONSIDER them to be country artists.
>
Quite the opposite was what I was saying....many suburban, more affluent
C&W fans would not be caught dead supporting Wilson or B&R.
Bob Rudd
says...
> You know that I'm a hotel GM; from 1996 - 1998 I managed an upscale
> brand hotel in Pigeon Forge
>
No, I did not!!!!
If you care to share, email me where you might work in your neck of the
VA woods. I wonder if I/we've stayed there in any of our last few trips
to your area.
Bob Rudd
> sound is effete, the generations that enjoyed and supported it the
> most are aging and disappearing, and it's being replaced by ...
> something else that I don't happen to like but apparently a lot of
> other folks do.
>
I wouldn't call it effete, zob, and if I've given that impression, I
apologize. I'd probably say that modern C&W suburban, affluent fans
are, probably, closer to that description if it fits either sub-group at
all.
Think of C&W as a political party, be it Dem or Rep. The old stuff if
Dem would be the traditional Dem mainstays: blacks, teacher unions,
labor. The new stuff would be: soccer moms, buppies, gays, Catholics
and main line Protestants. If Rep, the old stuff would be: Southern,
more Evangelical, pro life etc. while the new stuff would be: middle and
upper class salaried position individuals (non-labor), mainstream
religions and likely to be higher educated.
Bob Rudd
says...
> On Sat, 13 Jan 2007 18:56:52 GMT, Bob Rudd <bob...@verizon.net>
> wrote:
>
> |In article <s5aiq2tkgg10aqedm...@4ax.com>, zob@_cox.net
> |says...
> |> On Sat, 13 Jan 2007 02:19:38 GMT, Bob Rudd <bob...@verizon.net>
> |> wrote:
> |>
> |>
> |> |I've met Steve Austin. You sir are no Steve Austin. Steve Austin, I'm
> |> |reasonably confident likes Carrie Underwood's music.
> |> |
> |> |
> |> |:-)
> |>
> |>
> |> Wow, Bob! Emulating a *Democrat?!!* LOL
> |>
> |
> |Steve Austin is no Democrat, that's for sure.
> |
> |
>
You really think Bentsen, in his heart, was ever a Democrat?
fmomoon
"zob" <zob@_cox.net> wrote in message
news:7ibiq29qs1171194u...@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 13 Jan 2007 14:08:38 -0500, zob <zob@_cox.net> wrote:
> |No, but you were paraphrasing the Quail-bashing Lloyd Bensten ...
>
:) I used to call him Quail....sort of on purpose.
--
Moni (fmomoon)
War does not determine who is right,
war determines who is left.
~~carl~~
I don't think Carrie Underwood will ever be the New Shania. Unless
Carrie can sway her hips like Shania. Thats why Shania is the most
sexiest country singer out there...well besides LeAnn Rimes..and Pam
Tillis. And among others.
Did you actually just use the words "Leann Rimes" and "sexy" in the same
sentence? [Dude...I mean what I say...yes] I've been watching LeAnn
Rimes since she was only 14..and today she's still hot and sexy. Why
isn't so difficult for you and anyone else to believe it?
I don't believe Shania said she has horrible legs. Take it in the eyes
of guys...she has great legs..and among everything else. I know someone
out there is posting Shania has a sex video...but don't believe it.
Karrde
> On Sat, 13 Jan 2007 20:05:18 GMT, Bob Rudd <bob...@verizon.net>
> wrote:
> You don't have to belong to the Religious
> Right to be a Republican, nor do you have to be an inner-city Welfare
> recipient to be a Democrat.
Amen! In fact, I can't se why the religious right has adopted the party of
reason. There is no reason in religion. They are to the Republican party
what George Soros is to the Democrat party.
> Actually, let me blow off some steam about something that's always
> bothered me. I don't understand how *any one* can be such a mindless
> robot as to follow a party line all the way down. Do these people not
> have an original thought in their head? This is what I'm talking
> about; correct me if you disagree:
The following is my view on each:
> Some basic principles of Conservatism:
> Pro-death penalty,
Yes, but not as a deterrent to anyone other than the perpetrator.
>lower taxes ,
Yes. Proven over and over again to be the best policy.
>less spending,
Absolutely! And why the faux Republicans lost Congress.
> smaller government,
Same as above.
> more personal freedom,
We already have more than any other nation. We are doing just fine here.
> anti-abortion,
Yes, but NOT for the reason anyone else in the public sphere has ever
proposed.
>pro-guns,
No. I don't believe that's what the frames of the Bill of Rights had in
mind. But since we are already there, I don't see a way to turn back.
>pro-big business,
Pro-All business.
> expansionist in foreign policy, et al.
I'm not sure I understand this one. We need to protect our national
interests and we need to protect our citizens.
> Some basic principles of Liberalism:
> Anti-death penalty, entitlement programs, larger benign government,
I don't see how a larger government can possibly be benign.
> I know this is long, but one last point: There are many of us out
> there who make up what Nixon described as the "silent Majority."
Remember that the "silent majority" also gave us Fantasia Barrino and Taylor
Hicks as American Idols. Our country was set up as a representative
republic for a reason. Our founders knew that the masses were stupid and
should never be given absolute control.
--
--K
Undisputed 2004 Bragging Rights Champion
Karrde
> On Fri, 5 Jan 2007 19:46:48 -0800, VIDE...@webtv.net (~~carl~~)
> wrote:
>
> |I don't think Carrie Underwood will ever be the New Shania. Unless
> |Carrie can sway her hips like Shania. Thats why Shania is the most
> |sexiest country singer out there...well besides LeAnn Rimes..and Pam
> |Tillis. And among others.
> |
> |
> Did you actually just use the words "Leann Rimes" and "sexy" in the
> same sentence?
Hey! Zob and I agree on something! Old horse-face should have pulled a
Milli Vanilli and had an attractive person front for her.
daveparks
stunnings...@hotmail.com wrote:
> daveparks wrote:
> > stunningsteveaus...@hotmail.com wrote:
> > > Carrie Underwood, or anyone from American Idol for that matter is
> > > unlikely to make a lasting impression in music.
> >
> > With tens of millions of albums collectively sold, Grammy and AMA Award
> > noms and wins, endorsement deals, and very successful tours - all in
> > the relatively short time period of 6 television seasons and counting,
> > I think you're selling the Idol's short, as several seem to have made
> > at least one heckuva a first impression.
>
>
> But how many of those albums and AI winners will actually be remembered
> 10-20 years from now? Grammy's and AMA Awards don't mean a thing, Elvis
> for instance never won a single Grammy, the same can be said about a
> lot of successful people. Awards and endorsements deals don't cement a
> musical legacy.
I only used the awards to illustrate the success AI and it's Winners
have achieved .. so far.
But I'm basing my opinion, that an American Idol 'is' likely to have a
lasting impression in music, on the achievements made so far - some of
which are very very impressive. On what do you base your opinion that
'anyone from American Idol' "is unlikely" to?
> > > The whole idea of the
> > > show is to create and market singers designed for short term success,
> > > not artists who continue to sell their albums for years after they are
> > > released, so unless they find a way to break away from the AI mould
> > > then they will be forgotten about in a few years.
> >
> > Where do get this "designed for short term success" comment? I've
> > never heard or read anyone associated with the show say anything of the
> > like. If it's 'just' your opinion, then I disagree - as AI has only
> > been in production for a few short years.
>
>
> American Idol, just like every major corporation, places priority on
> making money. The most common way to do that is to take as few risks as
> possible. There is a comfort zone in music and what the judges look for
> is someone to fit it.
Then does it not make more business sense for AI to create and maerket
singers *designed for 'long' term success*?