"Silver Bells" Summary/Review
Dana
"Silver Bells"
Air date: December 15, 1997
Summary/Review by Dana Hagerty
(spoiler space)
At least twice today, people came up to me at work and said "I hear
tonight's 'Ally' is supposed to be a really special one – are you looking
forward to it?" Well, I'm not sure where they heard that (although I've
heard there is a morning radio guy here who raves about the show, so maybe
he was talking about it), but I didn't think there was anything "really
special" about it. Maybe my expectations were too high, considering it was
the last new episode of the year.
The episode begins with Elaine trying to talk Ally into singing backup for
her at the office Christmas party, which is held every year in the bar
downstairs. As Elaine goes on about Ally being lugubrious (who uses words
like these?), Ally envisions Elaine's head getting so big that it explodes.
(Maybe she used too many big words.)
Fish calls Ally and Cage into his office because of "something big that may
have fallen into our lap". That something big is three people, one man and
two women, who want to legally marry. There's James and Mindy Horton, who
have been married for over eight years, and Patti Horton, who is James'
lover, and has already legally changed her name. They are bringing the
case before Judge Whipper Cone.
James and Mindy have two children, and a third child was brought into the
world when James fertilized Patti's egg, and it was implanted in Mindy.
When Ally hears this, she begins to hum just like Cage does when he's
nervous.
Ally and Cage retire to the unisex, where they are (apparently) both using
the facilities. Cage tells Ally that her presence in the courtroom will
help their case, because she is a romantic, and the case is so
conventionally un-romantic. It isn't until they both reach the sink that
he realizes he's left the stall without his trousers. What do you know --
Cage is a boxer man!
Elaine is still trying to round up back-up singers, and this time she's
asking Renee and Georgia. They both turn her down. Renee says she doesn't
sing backup for anybody.
Richard is practicing in the bar, (he's singing a love song – and he's not
too bad), when Elaine reminds him that this will be the third year he has
sung an Ode to Whipper. "She wants a ring, Richard, not a medley", Elaine
says.
Ally, Renee and Georgia are having lunch in Ally's office, discussing the
case. Ally is explaining that it involves heterosexual one-on-one sex. "I
guess the women take turns being too tired," she adds. Cage comes in to
tell Ally and Georgia that he feels they have two options – science or
emotion. Science, because he says that man by nature must procreate with
multiple partners. Emotion says he should follow his heart. Cage is
leaning toward science.
In court, Georgia questions James Horton about why he, his wife and his
lover want a three-way marriage. He explains that his marriage seemed
dead, but after he met Patti, he realized he was in love with two women.
The three of them sat down two years ago to figure out how to handle it,
and decided to try living together. Whipper asks him if he thinks that
justifies him coming to court and asking to be joined in matrimony, as a
threesome. He responds that they are a family, devoted to each other, the
kids live at home where there is love and security. "How many people in
this room can make the same claim?" he responds, just as Ally, Georgia, and
Whipper 'subconsciously' shoot him. Ally hums.
When Mindy takes the stand, she admits that when she first found out about
her husband's affair, she was devastated. She said it was most painful
because it came during a time when their relationship was stronger than
ever. Mindy says her husband's relationship with Patti opened him up and
helped her relationship with him.
This triggers something in Georgia. She goes to see Billy in his office,
and tells him that ever since Ally came to the firm, their relationship has
been better than ever. "You've been less repressed," she says. He asks
her if she thinks there is something going on between him and Ally. "Of
course there's something going on between you and Ally," she responds. She
doesn't think Billy has been unfaithful, but she believes Ally has been
good for them, and that makes her angry.
Later, Billy and Ally are in the unisex, and he tells her about the
discussion he had with Georgia. Ally admits that, while it isn't her plan
to break up his marriage, she isn't exactly thrilled to be the best thing
that ever happened to it.
Richard and Whipper are in her chambers, and Whipper is in a funk. Fish
tells her that happiness can be found in one word: denial. Whipper says
happiness is going to bed at night with something a little more secure than
a Fishism. He gets down on one knee, and says that if she wants him to
marry her, he will, but he adds that they are together and they love each
other, so what's the point of marriage. Whipper tells him it must mean
something, if he's so afraid of it.
Richard asks Ally about Whipper, and Ally just thinks that Whipper is
feeling insecure right now. Richard asks why single women automatically
conclude that if they are unmarried they are unhappy, and Ally responds "as
opposed to men who stave off misery until after they are married." Georgia
happens to overhear this last part, and interrupts with "what was that?"
Ally proceeds to stick her foot in her mouth, again, when she tells Georgia
that Billy is happy – happier than she's ever seen him. "No, that's not
true, I have definitely seen him happier," Ally says, in an effort to
backtrack over her words. But that makes it worse. Georgia now knows that
Billy told Ally about their conversation. And as Billy comes up to the
group, Georgia lets it out, telling Billy and Ally that it's time they all
had a talk, together. Cage interrupts to tell them they are late for
court.
In court, Ally questions Patti, who admits that she is the evil other
woman. While she didn't grow up picturing this for her marriage, the
situation works well for her.
Cage later tells Fish that he is drawn to Ally, and wants to ask her to the
Christmas party. Fish encourages him to go ahead.
Billy, Ally and Georgia are sitting on a couch in a room, with Ally in the
middle. Ally is protesting being brought into the middle of this, and
Georgia admits that she doesn't like Ally being in the middle of this
either. She says she is angry because in order to have a meaningful
discussion about their marriage, Ally has to be in the room. She's angry
because she's not sure she wants Ally out of Billy's life. And, to top it
all off, she's angry because she likes Ally. She thinks Ally has made
Billy more emotionally accessible, and asks Billy "Do you deny that?" "Not
for a second," Billy responds. Ally takes her leave at this point,
tripping over Georgia's foot in the process.
Later at home, Renee and Ally are talking about the case. Renee says
society drills it into us that women should get married, have children, and
stay at home. Ally says society has more women than men, and if women
really wanted to change society, they could. "I plan to change it," Ally
says, "I just want to get married first."
Whipper unexpectedly shows up at the Horton house, which is beautifully
decorated for the Christmas holiday, both inside and out. She only stays
for a moment, and says she just wanted to get a peek at their home.
Billy comes into Georgia's office, and says that if his friendship with
Ally is a threat to their relationship, he will "dial back" his
relationship with Ally. Georgia says what she wants is to completely trust
him. She knows that he is technically faithful, but she doesn't believe he
is totally faithful. When Billy goes to Ally and uses her as a sounding
board for things that involve them, Georgia says that is not fidelity.
"Ally understands that," Georgia says, "why can't you?"
Cage is in the unisex, undergoing a ritual not unlike the one he uses to
prepare for battle. He walks to Ally's office, ready to ask her to the
Christmas party, only to be told by Ally that his fly is open. He turns
around, zips up, turns back, and asks her to the party. Ally responds that
she has been thinking about that, and, well, he is her boss. Cage says he
understands, and leaves.
That night at the party, Cage beeps Richard to tell him that Whipper has
the verdict on the case. In the courtroom, Whipper admits that she's been
married twice, and both marriages failed miserably. She adds that when she
went into the Horton home the night before, she saw something she's never
had – something she still wants. And while Whipper says there really is no
good reason for the commonwealth not to recognize a union of three, she
calls this case an erosion that she isn't willing to contribute to, and she
denies the plaintiff's motion. Ally tells Mindy that she is sorry, and
Mindy surprises Ally by telling her that Whipper made the right decision.
In Whipper's chambers, Richard tries to explain to her why he's afraid. He
says his parents fought all the time, and he grew up in his room wearing
headphones, blaring so he wouldn't hear. He goes on to say that the age
difference does matter, and that they had a guardrail there from day one.
But he tells her he loves her, and is willing to get counseling.
Cage is alone in the office, and Ally comes up to try and get him to come
down to the party. She even wants him to come as her date, but he says her
first instinct was correct. "But wouldn't you like to dance?" she asks.
Cage tells her he's not rhythmic. Maybe a slow dance, Ally responds, since
it isn't really like dancing, it's just two people leaning on each other,
almost as if they would fall down without the other one to hang on to.
Cage asks Ally "Do you know that you're odd?" Later, he explains to Ally
that he believed in Santa until he was twelve, when his mother told him
that Santa fondled the elves. The next year, she told him Santa died of a
heart attack. Cage blamed himself because he taunted Santa with Oreo's and
a glass of whole milk.
Downstairs, everyone's slow dancing. And upstairs, everyone's slow
dancing, too.
Bits and Pieces:
Kelley has been very conservative with his insights into Ally's mind
lately, but tonight, they were back, and they were placed impeccably. The
one where the three women shoot at the husband came out of the blue, and I
was a little surprised that I felt the same way they did at that moment.
Kelley must be getting some assistance from his wife. Either that, or he
really has an incredible insight into the female mind.
I could tell from the very beginning that Mindy was not happy with this
arrangement. I got the impression that she wasn't a strong enough person
to leave her husband and find a better life for herself. Maybe I would
have felt more for this story line if this had not been the case.
At one point, Renee tells Richard that he does not want his singing act to
follow hers during the party. She was right! Renee and Vonda's rendition
of "Santa Claus is Coming to Town" was fantastic! I'm always pleased when
actors who can sing are allowed to use that talent.
But Richard wasn't bad at all. In fact, I was very happy to see both
Germann (Fish) and Krakowski (Elaine) singing on this show, since they both
have Broadway singing experience.
And the best part of the entire show: Peter Roth, the President of FOX
Entertainment, playing a guy who dances with Renee, and tells her he owns a
network! Simply priceless!
--
Dana
mis...@yahoo.com
Dana's Ally McBeal Page: http://www.geocities.com/Hollywood/Hills/2927/
T. Erik Browne
In article <01bd09bf$d663a520$54faedcc@default>,
Dana <mis...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>"Silver Bells"
>Air date: December 15, 1997
>Summary/Review by Dana Hagerty
>
>
>
>Kelley has been very conservative with his insights into Ally's mind
>lately, but tonight, they were back, and they were placed impeccably. The
>one where the three women shoot at the husband came out of the blue, and I
>was a little surprised that I felt the same way they did at that moment.
>Kelley must be getting some assistance from his wife. Either that, or he
>really has an incredible insight into the female mind.
My local paper reprinted an article from the Dallas Morning News about Vonda
Shepard and "Ally McBeal". Apparently Vonda is a good friend of Kelley's
wife, Michelle Pfeiffer.
>At one point, Renee tells Richard that he does not want his singing act to
>follow hers during the party. She was right! Renee and Vonda's rendition
>of "Santa Claus is Coming to Town" was fantastic! I'm always pleased when
>actors who can sing are allowed to use that talent.
And did you notice that Vonda actually had a spoken line in this episode?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
T. Erik Browne | All operating systems suck.
tbr...@best.com | The sooner you learn this, the better.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Apparently I'm insane. But I'm one of the happy kinds!"
BelleSoCal
Dana Hagerty <mis...@yahoo.com> wrote a terrific review which I won't quote in
its entirety here, LOL ...
But I'd also like to add a couple of my own comments:
>
>
>
>(spoiler space)
>
>
>
>
>
First off, I gotta say that I've been hooked since the first show. I've gotten
a group of my female co-workers hooked, too, so I tape the show every Monday
and on Tuesdays, I bring the tape to work and we watch it in our kitchen during
lunch, laughing our asses off. So I get to see it twice, once with my fiance
and once with a group of women. It's a LOT more fun with the women, possibly
because I think this show *speaks* to women's thoughts and emotions so well.
>>> Fish calls Ally and Cage into his office because of "something big that may
have fallen into our lap". <<<
I loved his line to Ally, which went something like, "I know with me it's
usually about money, but this time it's about piles and piles and PILES of
money ..."
>>> Ally and Cage retire to the unisex, where they are (apparently) both using
the facilities. Cage tells Ally that her presence in the courtroom will help
their case, because she is a romantic, and the case is so conventionally
un-romantic. It isn't until they both reach the sink that he realizes he's left
the stall without his trousers. What do you know -- Cage is a boxer man!<<<
Hey, Phant, ya reckon he just *thinks* better without 'em??? <G>
>>> Georgia now knows that Billy told Ally about their conversation. And as
Billy comes up to the group, Georgia lets it out, telling Billy and Ally that
it's time they all had a talk, together. Cage interrupts to tell them they are
late for court. <<<
The *side dialogue* -- wasn't it something like this? --
Elaine: "I can take the minutes!"
Georgia: "Do you just sniff out trouble and wait for it?"
Elaine: "Yes. And if I can complicate it ..."
ROTFLMAO ...
>>> Cage later tells Fish that he is drawn to Ally, and wants to ask her to the
Christmas party. Fish encourages him to go ahead. <<<
>>> Whipper unexpectedly shows up at the Horton house, which is beautifully
decorated for the Christmas holiday, both inside and out. She only stays for a
moment, and says she just wanted to get a peek at their home. <<<
On the second viewing, I noticed something at the Horton House (Horton Hears a
Whipper?) -- Mindy and Patty and their respective children were in separate
little *den* or *family* type rooms. Did anybody else catch this? From the look
on her face, I could swear that Whipper did --
>>> Cage is in the unisex, undergoing a ritual not unlike the one he uses to
prepare for battle. He walks to Ally's office, ready to ask her to the
Christmas party, only to be told by Ally that his fly is open. <<<
On his little walk to Ally's office, the background music was some funky
soundin' thang, a real R&B number (God help me with the names of musicians and
song titles -- but I usually *do* know the lyrics). At any rate, the Biscuit
was walkin' along like he was *all that* and more, LOL, just chillin' down the
hall -- only about a quarter of a beat off the rhythm ...
>>> [Whipper] adds that when she went into the Horton home the night before,
she saw something she's never had -- something she still wants. <<<
This was a very interesting remark from Whipper, given the look on her face
when she noticed the separation of the two women and their children. It was
obvious to me that the separation wasn't a conscious decision on the part of
the three adults involved in this family, but that it just happened. What she
also saw was a union of sorts, which is what she so desperately wants with
Fish.
>>> And the best part of the entire show: Peter Roth, the President of FOX
Entertainment, playing a guy who dances with Renee, and tells her he owns a
network! Simply priceless! <<<
I am SO glad someone else noticed this!!!! I was laughing myself silly ... :)))
What a thought-provoking episode, too. Some of my friends here at work think
Georgia is all right, some think she's all wrong -- I think she's just about
half and half and pretty normal.
I'm engaged to a man who is divorced from his wife of 13 years; they have 2
children together and have cultivated keeping theirs a friendly relationship.
Yet I know that in some ways, she knows more of him that I do at this point,
simply because of their history. He's not in love with her any more, nor is she
with him, but they *are* friends and they *do* have a history. I do however
sometimes sense those little "pockets" that Georgia was talking about. When
Dave and Liz talk about his mother's death, she knows because she was there; I
wasn't. Because of their friendship, though, I think he's a stronger person,
just as I am a stronger person because of my frienships and family
relationships.
The defining moment for me in this episode, then, was towards the end, when
Ally and Georgia were talking in the bar at the Christmas Party, and Ally
admitted that she does use Billy when she's feeling insecure or unsteady --
that he "steadies her." Georgia answered, "I know." And Ally said, "The funny
thing is, so do you." Georgia was clearly thunderstruck -- she seemed to me to
finally understand that it's not about the gender or sexuality of our friends,
it the quality of the friendship!!
Yes, Ally and Billy were lovers. They probably still have a flight of fantasy
every once in a while (in fact, if past episodes are any indication, they
definitely do). But what they are most is friends (anybody else catch the way
they both said "Silly" in the unisex at the same time?), and friendship can
transcend the fantasy.
I know good and well there's more I could say about this show (and this episode
in particular), but my brain is too clouded to go on for now. Suffice it to
say, there are so many small but important moments in AMcB, you can't turn your
head for a moment ...
Beverly
*********************************************************
"I feel *good* now ..." Mulder to Scully, "Demons"
Adam Bernay
On 16 Dec 1997, BelleSoCal wrote:
> >>> Whipper unexpectedly shows up at the Horton house, which is beautifully
> decorated for the Christmas holiday, both inside and out. She only stays for a
> moment, and says she just wanted to get a peek at their home. <<<
>
> On the second viewing, I noticed something at the Horton House (Horton Hears a
> Whipper?) -- Mindy and Patty and their respective children were in separate
> little *den* or *family* type rooms. Did anybody else catch this? From
> the look on her face, I could swear that Whipper did --
I caught that the first time, sorta...it flowed through my mind at the
same time as the thought, "Dang, it's weird seeing this guy with hair!"
(Bonus points for anyone who gets my reference.)
> >>> Cage is in the unisex, undergoing a ritual not unlike the one he uses to
> prepare for battle. He walks to Ally's office, ready to ask her to the
> Christmas party, only to be told by Ally that his fly is open. <<<
>
> On his little walk to Ally's office, the background music was some funky
> soundin' thang, a real R&B number (God help me with the names of musicians and
> song titles -- but I usually *do* know the lyrics). At any rate, the Biscuit
> was walkin' along like he was *all that* and more, LOL, just chillin' down the
> hall -- only about a quarter of a beat off the rhythm ...
Yeah, I caught that, and I bet that it was intentional that he was off the
rhythm.
> >>> [Whipper] adds that when she went into the Horton home the night before,
> she saw something she's never had -- something she still wants. <<<
>
> This was a very interesting remark from Whipper, given the look on her face
> when she noticed the separation of the two women and their children. It was
> obvious to me that the separation wasn't a conscious decision on the part of
> the three adults involved in this family, but that it just happened. What she
> also saw was a union of sorts, which is what she so desperately wants with
> Fish.
Hmmm...I can't agree...I think that it was semi-conscious, and she didn't
like what she saw at all, which led to her decision in the case.
> >>> And the best part of the entire show: Peter Roth, the President of FOX
> Entertainment, playing a guy who dances with Renee, and tells her he owns a
> network! Simply priceless! <<<
BTW, he says, "I run a network", not "I own a network".
> I am SO glad someone else noticed this!!!! I was laughing myself silly
> ... :)))
I made the mistake of having a sip of my soda a second before the
line...although I sorta knew it was coming! Well, I needed to wash that
shirt anyway...
> The defining moment for me in this episode, then, was towards the end, when
> Ally and Georgia were talking in the bar at the Christmas Party, and Ally
> admitted that she does use Billy when she's feeling insecure or unsteady --
> that he "steadies her." Georgia answered, "I know." And Ally said, "The funny
> thing is, so do you." Georgia was clearly thunderstruck -- she seemed to me to
> finally understand that it's not about the gender or sexuality of our friends,
> it the quality of the friendship!!
Absolutely!
Adam Bernay
iNetSpy
>>>> Whipper unexpectedly shows up at the Horton house, which is beautifully
>decorated for the Christmas holiday, both inside and out. She only stays
for a
>moment, and says she just wanted to get a peek at their home. <<<
>
>On the second viewing, I noticed something at the Horton House (Horton
Hears a
>Whipper?) -- Mindy and Patty and their respective children were in separate
>little *den* or *family* type rooms. Did anybody else catch this? From the
look
>on her face, I could swear that Whipper did --
I noticed this too, the only additional note is that they were both (rooms)
very happy and family oriented...together.
>>>> Cage is in the unisex, undergoing a ritual not unlike the one he uses
to
>prepare for battle. He walks to Ally's office, ready to ask her to the
>Christmas party, only to be told by Ally that his fly is open. <<<
I really don't get the Biscuit and Ally thing... They appear to be so
different, he seems to be an alright guy. But he is a convicted Prostitue
user and his absolute lust for money is, I think, at odds with Ally's
romantic ideals. Besides the fact that she is kind of Sexy/Cute and he
is...well the biscuit. <G>
>>>> [Whipper] adds that when she went into the Horton home the night
before,
>she saw something she's never had -- something she still wants. <<<
Am I the only one that finds an unsupervised visit by the presiding judge a
little off the mark?
>>>> And the best part of the entire show: Peter Roth, the President of FOX
>Entertainment, playing a guy who dances with Renee, and tells her he owns a
>network! Simply priceless! <<<
The priceless line was Renee's, He says "I own/run a network" she says...
"Ooohh...That's a good line or that's a good one!"
Oh & Hold on a sec, let's get a Male vote for best part of the show here...
Bzzzt! The best moment was The Vamp version of "I saw Mommy Kissing Santa
Claus" although from that rendition I was thinkin' Santa was gettin' Milk &
Cookies with that Kiss! <PEG>
>What a thought-provoking episode, too. Some of my friends here at work
think
>Georgia is all right, some think she's all wrong -- I think she's just
about
>half and half and pretty normal.
And of course the Male Pig in me thought for a fleeting moment that Georgia
was going to invite Ally to move in. Sorry ladies Male Fantasy... Woo-hoo!
Of course if I was Billy I think he has made the right choice. Georgia is
gorgeous and more confident and "together" than Ally.
>The defining moment for me in this episode, then, was towards the end, when
>Ally and Georgia were talking in the bar at the Christmas Party, and Ally
>admitted that she does use Billy when she's feeling insecure or unsteady --
>that he "steadies her." Georgia answered, "I know." And Ally said, "The
funny
>thing is, so do you." Georgia was clearly thunderstruck -- she seemed to me
to
>finally understand that it's not about the gender or sexuality of our
friends,
>it the quality of the friendship!!
Well that and the fact that Georgia has used Ally as a "sounding board" for
her marital questions about Billy, why shouldn't he be allowed to do the
same thing?
BelleSoCal
"iNetSpy" <iNe...@erols.com> wrote:
>>> I noticed this too [i.e., the separate family rooms at the Horton house],
the only additional note is that they were both (rooms) very happy and family
oriented...together. <<<
The point to me was that while each room might have been, on its own, happy and
family-oriented and together, the *entire family* was decidedly *NOT* together.
If, as Horton contended, he had a true family with two wives and three
children, there would have been some blending of the persons in that family.
I'm not saying that everyone of them would necessarily have been sittin'
together on the couch reading "How the Grinch Stole Christmas" -- just that the
separation wouldn't have been so total and distinct.
>>> Am I the only one that finds an unsupervised visit by the presiding judge a
little off the mark? <<<
It didn't seem off the mark for me at all. Stays true to Whipper's personality
and emotions, especially those "of the moment," and it's not outside the bounds
of legal ethics.
>>> Well that and the fact that Georgia has used Ally as a "sounding board" for
her marital questions about Billy, why shouldn't he be allowed to do the same
thing? <<<
Precisely my point!
T. Erik Browne
In article <Pine.BSI.3.95.97121...@mammoth.psnw.com>,
>> decorated for the Christmas holiday, both inside and out. She only stays for a
>> moment, and says she just wanted to get a peek at their home. <<<
>>
>> On the second viewing, I noticed something at the Horton House (Horton Hears a
>> Whipper?) -- Mindy and Patty and their respective children were in separate
>> little *den* or *family* type rooms. Did anybody else catch this? From
>> the look on her face, I could swear that Whipper did --
>
>same time as the thought, "Dang, it's weird seeing this guy with hair!"
>(Bonus points for anyone who gets my reference.)
I know what you mean. Throughout the entire show, I kept on thinking, "So
that's what Eric Pierpoint looks with hair? He should be more bald."
For those of you not in the know, Pierpoint, who played the husband in this
episode, played the alien police detective George Francisco in the show "Alien
Nation." On a side note, the role was played by Mandy Patinkin in the movie,
and of course Patinkin was the star of David E. Kelley's show "Chicago Hope"
during the first season.
PrincessLamb
In article <679dk6$40t$1...@shell5.ba.best.com>, tbr...@best.com (T. Erik
Browne) wrote:
>> In article <Pine.BSI.3.95.97121...@mammoth.psnw.com>,
>> Adam Bernay <abe...@mammoth.psnw.com> wrote:
>> >
O yes, I did see that myself because I was looking for the dynamic of that
"family", as I found this episode very poignant and realistic. These are
relationship savvy people and everyone knew the score about that case
right from the getgo up to the end.
I do love the regular characters, particularly Dyan Cannon's Whipper and
Richard. Okay The Bisquit too. In fact damn near all of them EXCEPT Ally
herself. She's become quite annoying, unrealistic, twitchy and precious.
Not to mention she has a habit of treating the men who are attracted to
her like shit or anyone in need of her likewise. Besides, I HATE
precious.
>> >On 16 Dec 1997, BelleSoCal wrote:
>> >
>> >> >>> Whipper unexpectedly shows up at the Horton house, which is
beautifully
>> >> decorated for the Christmas holiday, both inside and out. She only
stays for a
>> >> moment, and says she just wanted to get a peek at their home. <<<
>> >>
>> >> On the second viewing, I noticed something at the Horton House
(Horton Hears a
>> >> Whipper?) -- Mindy and Patty and their respective children were in
separate
>> >> little *den* or *family* type rooms. Did anybody else catch this? From
>> >> the look on her face, I could swear that Whipper did --
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David Gekiere
iNetSpy (iNe...@erols.com) wrote:
: Well that and the fact that Georgia has used Ally as a "sounding board" for
: her marital questions about Billy, why shouldn't he be allowed to do the
: same thing?
Because Ally and Billy still love each other. Ally knows it, Billy is
pretending it's a just friendship, and Georgia is trying very hard to
trust the both of them that their relationship won't go past this stage of
friendship, even though she knows there's more to it than that. As she
said to Billy: "You're *technically* faithful." So I do understand
Georgia's reaction. She's scared.
--
David.
"... I love you Michael.
- I don't think you love me, Sandra. I think you
just hate the idea of me not loving you."
Peter Milligan, Enigma
PrincessLamb
O yes, I did see that myself because I was looking for the dynamic of that
"family", as I found this episode very poignant and realistic. These are
relationship savvy people and everyone knew the score about that case
right from the getgo up to the end.
I do love the regular characters, particularly Dyan Cannon's Whipper and
Richard. Okay The Bisquit too. In fact damn near all of them EXCEPT Ally
herself. She's become quite annoying, unrealistic, twitchy and precious.
Not to mention she has a habit of treating the men who are attracted to
her like shit or anyone in need of her likewise. Besides, I HATE
precious.
(I don't know what happened to my post, but I thought I'd clean it up and
repost because I thought it was unreadable. Sorry.)
>> >> >On 16 Dec 1997, BelleSoCal wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >> >>> Whipper unexpectedly shows up at the Horton house, which is
>> beautifully
>> >> >> decorated for the Christmas holiday, both inside and out. She only
>> stays for a
>> >> >> moment, and says she just wanted to get a peek at their home. <<<
>> >> >>
>> >> >> On the second viewing, I noticed something at the Horton House
>> (Horton Hears a
>> >> >> Whipper?) -- Mindy and Patty and their respective children were in
>> separate
>> >> >> little *den* or *family* type rooms. Did anybody else catch this? From
>> >> >> the look on her face, I could swear that Whipper did --
__________________________________________________
BelleSoCal
iNetSpy (iNe...@erols.com) wrote:
>>> Well that and the fact that Georgia has used Ally as a "sounding board" for
her marital questions about Billy, why shouldn't he be allowed to do the same
thing? <<<
and gek...@lclark.edu (David Gekiere) wrote:
>>> Because Ally and Billy still love each other. Ally knows it, Billy is
pretending it's a just friendship, and Georgia is trying very hard to trust the
both of them that their relationship won't go past this stage of friendship,
even though she knows there's more to it than that. As she said to Billy:
"You're *technically* faithful." So I do understand Georgia's reaction. She's
scared. <<<
I understand her reaction, too, and I'm not saying mine wouldn't be the same in
identical circumstances. But since we are the Viewer and have the benefit of
being back a few paces from the situation, we also know that Billy's been not
only *technically* faithful, but physically and emotionally and mentally
faithful as well. Not that he hasn't had a brief fantasy or two about Ally, and
not that he hasn't remembered their relationship with all the heartfelt emotion
it deserves, but none of that means he's been unfaithful in any sense of the
word.
Most experts will tell you that fantasies are healthy, as long as they don't
get in the way of reality. Here, they aren't. In fact, not only has Billy been
*technically* faithful to Georgia, he's also been incredibly honest with her.
So has Ally.
I think what we're seeing is Billy and Ally moving into a different type of
relationship, a true friendship without quite so much baggage. Georgia can't
see it, and I'm not sure Billy and Ally *quite* realize it themselves on a
conscious level, but I still think it's happening. At least I hope it is. And
as that happens, what I hope is that Georgia will see it more and more and
become less concerned about Ally's influence on their marriage and more focused
on *her* influence on their marriage.
Just my $.02 ... pardon me while I go have another coughing fit <hack, snort
..>
Beverly <--- flu-ridden
PrincessLamb
I don't believe Georgia is scared, I think she's angry and I think she's
right to be angry.
Billy just loves giving Ally those puppydog eyes while he and she moon at
her preciousness or neurotic gaffs. And he flirts unmercifully with her.
HE won't let go! and considering he's married to a stunning woman he loves
and respects, what justification is there for this sort of behavior? He's
been an A1 jerk since Ally walked into that office and if he wasn't
feeding into her fantasies all the time by BEHAVING like a teenager, she
would have one less situation to perplex her obviously adolescentlike
emotional ground.
In article <679id3$ute$1...@sun.lclark.edu>, gek...@lclark.edu (David
Gekiere) wrote:
>> Because Ally and Billy still love each other. Ally knows it, Billy is
>> pretending it's a just friendship, and Georgia is trying very hard to
>> trust the both of them that their relationship won't go past this stage of
>> friendship, even though she knows there's more to it than that. As she
>> said to Billy: "You're *technically* faithful." So I do understand
>> Georgia's reaction. She's scared.
__________________________________________________
"who made coffee?"
__________________________________________________
ANTISPAM MANEUVER - to send email remove the "F" and send to:
cyn...@redshift.com __________________________________________________
iNetSpy
PrincessLamb wrote in message ...
>HE won't let go! and considering he's married to a stunning woman he loves
>and respects, what justification is there for this sort of behavior? He's
>been an A1 jerk since Ally walked into that office and if he wasn't
>feeding into her fantasies all the time by BEHAVING like a teenager, she
>would have one less situation to perplex her obviously adolescentlike
>emotional ground.
He is a Man... It is man's nature! Is right or wrong? ??? Is it right or
wrong to judge nature? If I were in his shoes I can not believe I would be
attracted to Ally for more than a fleeting second. Georgia is a Babe,
Brilliant and mature. What more could you possibly ask for?
Do I think he is jerk for making Ally happy by flirting? Nah, let her grow
up. If he steps over the line (kiss/sex/whatever) then we're in another
boat and I would be genuinely disappointed in "HIM."
Flirting with a "Girl" who is also a friend is cool. As long as everyone
understands it is humor and fun and doesn't loose site of themselves. "I"
just do not think I would do it if I were in his position, ONLY because it
obviously disturbs Georgia.
Am I the only that sees that Elaine needs to be spanked!?? <Grin> ELA
Lisa Aaronson
On Fri, 19 Dec 1997 11:30:33 -0500, iNetSpy <iNe...@erols.com> wrote:
> PrincessLamb wrote in message ...
> >HE won't let go! and considering he's married to a stunning woman he loves
> >and respects, what justification is there for this sort of behavior? He's
> >been an A1 jerk since Ally walked into that office and if he wasn't
> >feeding into her fantasies all the time by BEHAVING like a teenager, she
> >would have one less situation to perplex her obviously adolescentlike
> >emotional ground.
> He is a Man... It is man's nature! Is right or wrong? ??? Is it right or
> wrong to judge nature? If I were in his shoes I can not believe I would be
> attracted to Ally for more than a fleeting second. Georgia is a Babe,
> Brilliant and mature. What more could you possibly ask for?
Georgia is beautiful, but if I had to choose between then, I think I'd
pick Ally. Then again, I'm not a guy. <grin>
> Do I think he is jerk for making Ally happy by flirting? Nah, let her grow
> up. If he steps over the line (kiss/sex/whatever) then we're in another
> boat and I would be genuinely disappointed in "HIM."
He's a lot more likely to do so than she is. Like you said, "It's man's
nature".
Lisa
iNetSpy
From: Lisa Aaronson <li...@wco.com>
>Georgia is beautiful, but if I had to choose between then, I think I'd
>pick Ally. Then again, I'm not a guy. <grin>
>> Do I think he is jerk for making Ally happy by flirting? Nah, let her
grow
>> up. If he steps over the line (kiss/sex/whatever) then we're in another
>> boat and I would be genuinely disappointed in "HIM."
>
>He's a lot more likely to do so than she is. Like you said, "It's man's
>nature". Lisa
Now wait one cotton pickin' minute... <G> It takes two to tango and to say
he would and she wouldn't or that he would more than she would is....
Sexist! <Grin>
He is the one who has a mate, she is the one desperately looking for
"anyone" or that special "anyone." I would think if "anything" happen to
Him & Georgia that Ally would be on him like White on Rice! <G> ELA
Lisa Aaronson
On Fri, 19 Dec 1997 12:33:59 -0500, iNetSpy <iNe...@erols.com> wrote:
> From: Lisa Aaronson <li...@wco.com>
> >Georgia is beautiful, but if I had to choose between then, I think I'd
> >pick Ally. Then again, I'm not a guy. <grin>
> As a man, I would like to know why you would choose Ally over Georgia?
Um. Ally looks more cuddly? <blush> I don't know. How do you know that
someone appeals to you more than someone else. I'd go for Georgia over
Elaine any day. Ally and Georgia? It's a lot closer, but Ally's more my
type.
> >> Do I think he is jerk for making Ally happy by flirting? Nah, let her grow
> >> up. If he steps over the line (kiss/sex/whatever) then we're in another
> >> boat and I would be genuinely disappointed in "HIM."
> >
> >He's a lot more likely to do so than she is. Like you said, "It's man's
> >nature". Lisa
> Now wait one cotton pickin' minute... <G>
<grin>
> It takes two to tango and to say
> he would and she wouldn't or that he would more than she would is....
> Sexist! <Grin>
I never denied it. <raised eyebrow>
> He is the one who has a mate, she is the one desperately looking for
> "anyone" or that special "anyone." I would think if "anything" happen to
> Him & Georgia that Ally would be on him like White on Rice! <G> ELA
Nah. Ally says she's desperately looking. I don't see it in her
behavior, though. She's a romantic. She wants to be lightning-struck by
true love because that's a dream. But do you see her really out looking?
She went out with the rabbi because he happened to ask. She gave John the
idea that she'd go out with him, and then when he asked, she said no. I'm
not sure that *she* knows what she wants.
Lisa
David Kime
On 19 Dec 1997, Lisa Aaronson wrote:
> > As a man, I would like to know why you would choose Ally over Georgia?
>
> Um. Ally looks more cuddly? <blush> I don't know. How do you know that
> someone appeals to you more than someone else. I'd go for Georgia over
> Elaine any day. Ally and Georgia? It's a lot closer, but Ally's more my
> type.
As a guy...realistically, i would probably go with Ally, but actually
there is just something about Elaine that just makes me very curious!
Adam Bernay
On 19 Dec 1997, Lisa Aaronson wrote:
> Georgia is beautiful, but if I had to choose between then, I think I'd
> pick Ally. Then again, I'm not a guy. <grin>
Must this be thrown in our faces every post? We all know you're a
lesbian. Stop pointing it out. Just put out your opinions! That's what
we want to read!
Adam Bernay
PrincessLamb
In article <67e7et$2fj$1...@winter.news.erols.com>, "iNetSpy"
<iNe...@erols.com> wrote:
>> He is a Man... It is man's nature! Is right or wrong? ??? Is it right or
>> wrong to judge nature? If I were in his shoes I can not believe I would be
>> attracted to Ally for more than a fleeting second. Georgia is a Babe,
>> Brilliant and mature. What more could you possibly ask for?
It is a "man's nature" to do what? To light up like a Christmas tree
whenever his old girlfriend enters a room? To make her feel that he has
regrets, EVERY time they are alone together? My problem with how he
behaves isn't whether or not people do or should flirt. It's whether or
not it's ethical for someone committed to a relationship with another to
behave in this way. He's asking for trouble and this business with
Georgia noticing it was serious and could be the begining of the end of
his marriage. He has been betraying the one thing that a man and a woman
come together and commit to, which is intimacy.
>> Do I think he is jerk for making Ally happy by flirting? Nah, let her grow
>> up. If he steps over the line (kiss/sex/whatever) then we're in another
>> boat and I would be genuinely disappointed in "HIM."
Excuse me? That he is making "Ally" happy by flirting? You are actually
suggesting that he is doing this for HER and not for himself? If he steps
over the line? He already has, he just hasn't physically. By letting
Ally KNOW he would like to. That's first step in making fantasy reality.
What I'm wondering is if and when he does, who will stop it?
>> Flirting with a "Girl" who is also a friend is cool. As long as everyone
>> understands it is humor and fun and doesn't loose site of themselves. "I"
>> just do not think I would do it if I were in his position, ONLY because it
>> obviously disturbs Georgia.
He isn't just flirting with a "girl", he is flirting with a former lover,
a lover who was long time and quite serious and he is doing it quite
obviously.
Georgia is a classy dame and I loved how she handled the entire situation.
PrincessLamb
In article <67eb5r$jbl$1...@winter.news.erols.com>, "iNetSpy"
<iNe...@erols.com> wrote:
>> He is the one who has a mate, she is the one desperately looking for
>> "anyone" or that special "anyone." I would think if "anything" happen to
>> Him & Georgia that Ally would be on him like White on Rice! <G>
AMEN.
PontGuy83
>Must this be thrown in our faces every post?
I have to say that if it were not there, then people would bitch for not
quoting.
J. Webb
> He is the one who has a mate, she is the one desperately looking for
> "anyone" or that special "anyone." I would think if "anything" happen to
> Him & Georgia that Ally would be on him like White on Rice! <G> ELA
Iresspective of the fact that men are the lowest form of life(or so I have
heard... over and over) what I want to know is can Georgia trust Ally?
They seem to be friends(Starbuck buddies) share many of the same struggles
as young female attorneys and such. But can Ally be trusted not to do
anything(ala Melrose Place-like) that would facilitate a break up?
The scene in the 'uni' was extremely awkward and Billy could not really be
blamed for that(other than the fact he is man and therefore responsible,
somehow). Of course Ally did not know Georgia had entered but would it
have been any better no matter who?
It would be great to think that Georgia could have confidence in Billy. I
don't think he would become sexually involved with Ally. I don't think he
has become intimately, emotionally involved at this point and assume he
would know better than to succumb to that as well.
Human relationships are never easy.
regards,
J. Webb
jw...@netdepot.com
Atlanta Mac User Group
joe_...@atlmug.org
Lisa Aaronson
Lesbian?! How dare you? I said I was a *thespian*. <shaking my head>
Wonderful. A bloody J4J cultee spewing his homophobia at me. How lame.
Lisa
P.S., I was just kidding about not being a lesbian. <grin>
Glenn Dwiggins
Adam Bernay (abe...@mammoth.psnw.com) wrote:
:
: On 19 Dec 1997, Lisa Aaronson wrote:
:
: > Georgia is beautiful, but if I had to choose between then, I think I'd
: > pick Ally. Then again, I'm not a guy. <grin>
:
: Must this be thrown in our faces every post? We all know you're a
: lesbian. Stop pointing it out. Just put out your opinions! That's what
: we want to read!
Touchy!
--
Glenn Dwiggins Come, my songs, let us sing of perfection --
Los Angeles, CA We shall get ourselves rather disliked.
www.cinenet.net/~tseliot -- Ezra Pound, "Salvationists"
-- - -- - -- - -- - -- - -- -- - -- - -- - -- - -- - -- - -- - - -- - --
I tell you, we are here on Earth to fart around, and don't let anybody
tell you any different. -- Kurt Vonnegut, Jr.
Joe Schwartz
tse...@cinenet.net (Glenn Dwiggins) wrote:
> Adam Bernay (abe...@mammoth.psnw.com) wrote:
> :
> : On 19 Dec 1997, Lisa Aaronson wrote:
> :
> : > Georgia is beautiful, but if I had to choose between then, I think I'd
> : > pick Ally. Then again, I'm not a guy. <grin>
> :
> : Must this be thrown in our faces every post? We all know you're a
> : lesbian. Stop pointing it out. Just put out your opinions! That's what
> : we want to read!
>
> Touchy!
No, I think the correct response is "Snappish!"
------------------------------------------------------------------
Joe Schwartz (x...@poboxes.com) -- 5 Broadway #407, Troy, NY 12180
Come visit the Joyrides web site (http://www.joyrides.com/),
a photo gallery celebrating the joy and beauty of amusement rides!
Bunboy
I don't think there is any doubt if this show goes a few years that Ally
will sleep with him, Georgia or otherwise. It will probably come when
Georgia and Billy separate. With this show who knows maybe Ally and Georgia
will have an affair(probably partially wish fulfillment but definitely
possible) Hell, on this show anything is possible and that's one of the
reasons I enjoy it so much. Just too much sexual tension not to exploit it
at sometime.
Bunboy,
The people Who Can Smile When Things Go Wrong Have Found
Someone Else To Blame
Lisa Aaronson
On Mon, 22 Dec 1997 18:44:41 -0800, Bunboy <bun...@home.com> wrote:
> I don't think there is any doubt if this show goes a few years that Ally
> will sleep with him, Georgia or otherwise. It will probably come when
> Georgia and Billy separate. With this show who knows maybe Ally and Georgia
> will have an affair(probably partially wish fulfillment but definitely
> possible)
Ooo... careful, there. Whatshisface will get upset at the mention of
alternative sexualities. <grin>
Lisa
Frisco Del Rosario
In article <67n8mv$ak1$1...@ha2.rdc1.sdca.home.com>, "Bunboy"
<bun...@home.com> wrote:
> I don't think there is any doubt if this show goes a few years that Ally
> will sleep with him, Georgia or otherwise.
I do -- *lots* of doubt. The fragile nature of the Ally/Billy/Georgia
triangle -- one of the elements which makes the whole show so terrific --
would crumble if Ally and Billy fell into bed again.
--
Frisky AI -- http://www.cardplace.com/frisky.html
Newsgroup reviews and beyond -- http://www.best.com/~cattekin
Zz
zZ
|\ z _,,,---,,_
/,`.-'`' _ ;-;;,_
|,4- ) )-,_..;\ ( `'_'
'---''(_/--' `-'\_)
Danflave
Grace1995
I guess I need to disagree here. Billy certainly has been technically faithful
- physically, and maybe intellectually. But I don't think that he's been
emotionally faithful. Given their history, what I see is Billy and Ally, in a
sense, drawing an emothional circle around themselves when they confide in one
another, *particulary about Billy's relationship with Georgia.
I'm not saying that people who have been intimate in the past can *never have a
close friendship. I just think that in this case, the intimacy is not quite as
"past" as the characters pretend it is.
In article <19971218164...@ladder02.news.aol.com>, belle...@aol.com
Ron37inc
>> I don't think there is any doubt if this show goes a few years that Ally
>> will sleep with him, Georgia or otherwise.
>
>I do -- *lots* of doubt. The fragile nature of the Ally/Billy/Georgia
>triangle -- one of the elements which makes the whole show so terrific --
>would crumble if Ally and Billy fell into bed again.
I think both of you are right: It will eventually happen-probably in year 3,
and then the show will be ruined. Anyone remember Moonlighting???
RbSayre
completely off topic, but last night I had the oddest dream - Georgia, Billy,
and Max Von Sydow were in it & I was hiding in dark corners with a gun while
old Max told me I couldn't trust Georgia OR Billy...
I guess it's what happens when you OD on Ally & 3 Days of the Condor...
another pointless post.
rick
*if the world is night, shine my life like a light*-emily saliers
rick's home page- http://members.aol.com/rbsayre/rick.html
*i laugh in the face of danger. then i hide till it goes away*-xander harris
http://members.aol.com/jakeryan12/brendon.html