"Railroading" McMartin Prosecutor (Lael Rubin) Gets Appointed by New LA County DA Steve Cooley
Jim Morris
http://www.ags.uci.edu/~dehill/witchhunt/cases/mcmartin.htm
Cooley Announces Staff Changes on 1st Day in Office
Courts: He retains some Garcetti appointees and vows to release a plan on
handling three-strikes cases.
By TWILA DECKER, Times Staff Writer
On his first full day on the job Tuesday, Los Angeles County Dist.
Atty. Steve Cooley announced highly anticipated changes in his executive
management staff.
The appointees include two holdovers from the administration of former
Dist. Atty. Gil Garcetti, career prosecutors, former ranking members of the
district attorney's office and a former Municipal Court judge.
The job of second-in-command went to Curt Livesay, who will be interim
chief deputy. Livesay, who has 35 years experience as a prosecutor and
defense attorney, also served as chief deputy under former Dist. Atty. John
Van de Kamp.
The appointment that drew the most questions at the news conference was
that of Senior Trial Deputy Lael Rubin as special counsel.
Rubin will oversee Cooley's promised changes in the enforcement of
California's three-strikes law.
Rubin prosecuted the McMartin Pre-School case, an unsuccessful
three-year prosecution that was the most costly in county history. The
highly publicized case changed the way law enforcement officers across the
country question children who may have been sexually abused.
But Rubin said her entire career should not be summed up by one case.
"I concluded my work on the McMartin case more than 10 years ago," she
said. She noted that she had won a murder conviction just a few weeks ago.
The district attorney said he and Rubin will present a three-strikes
plan in 10 days.
Cooley named retired Montebello Police Chief George Stephen Simonian as
chief of the district attorney's bureau of investigation.
He appointed three assistant district attorneys:
* Former Inglewood Municipal Judge Lawrence E. Mason will be in charge
of line operations. Mason was a deputy district attorney from 1975 to 1997
and legal advisor to the Los Angeles County Grand Jury from 1989 to 1991.
* Head Deputy Dist. Atty. Peter Bozanich will direct special
operations. Bozanich, who joined the office in 1971, most recently ran the
south juvenile division.
* Assistant Dist. Atty. Sharon Matsumoto will keep her job as head of
administration. She began the job in 1998.
Cooley also named eight bureau directors:
* Jacquelyn Lacey will be in charge of central operations. Lacey joined
the office in 1986. She has been part of the hate crimes suppression unit
for the past year.
* Head Deputy Dist. Atty. Curt Hazell will direct special operations.
Hazell has been with the office since 1976.
* David Guthman will oversee fraud and prosecutions. He has been with
the office since 1977. During the past two years, Guthman has served as
director of the bureau of management and budget.
* Deputy Dist. Atty. Janice Maurizi will direct Region I of branch and
area operations. She has been with the office since 1984.
* Deputy Dist. Atty. John Allen will remain as head of Region II of
branch and area operations. Allen has been with the district attorney's
office since 1983.
* Former journalist Joseph Scott, who helped run Cooley's campaign,
will serve as director of communications.
* William R. Mangan, a commander in the Los Angeles County Sheriff's
Department, will direct the Bureau of Management and Budget.
* Former journalist Carol Baker will remain as acting director of crime
prevention and youth services. She has served in that job since 1998.
AP 18 Dec 95 20:02 EST V0140
Virginia McMartin Dead At 88
TORRANCE, Calif. (AP) -- Virginia McMartin, the grandmother acquitted of
molesting children at her pre-school in the nation's longest and costliest
criminal case, has died. She was 88.
McMartin, who bitterly denied the charges leveled against her, her
daughter, her grandson and pre-school staff, was pronounced dead Sunday in
the emergency room at Little Company of Mary Hospital.
"It was natural causes. She apparently had a series of strokes lately,"
said police Lt. David Marsden.
McMartin founded the now-defunct McMartin Preschool in Manhattan Beach,
which became the focus of a child abuse investigation in 1983 when a mother
later diagnosed as mentally ill told police she suspected her 2 1/2-year-old
son had been molested.
McMartin was arrested in 1984 with her daughter, Peggy McMartin Buckey,
and grandchildren, Ray and Peggy Ann Buckey, and three teachers.
In the months that followed, allegations were made that teachers at the
school had molested dozens of children, often during bizarre rituals.
McMartin became a familiar figure in the heavily-publicized case as she went
to court in her wheelchair.
In 1986, felony child molestation charges were dismissed against all but
Peggy McMartin Buckey and her son. They were charged with molesting 11
children over a five-year period.
Mrs. Buckey was acquitted in 1990 after a three-year trial. The same
year, Raymond Buckey was acquitted of 40 counts and a jury deadlocked on
another eight counts against him in a second trial.
The entire case lasted seven years and cost Los Angeles County $13
million, making it the longest and costliest criminal prosecution in U.S.
history. The O.J. Simpson trial cost $9 million.
Date: Mon, 18 Dec 1995 22:58:51 -0500
From: "Laura E. Pasley" <LEPa...@AOL.COM
Subject: Virginia McMartin
To: Multiple recipients of list WITCHHNT <WITC...@MITVMA.MIT.EDU
I'm sure you all have heard Virginia (the grandmother)
and owner of the McMartin Pre-School died in her
sleep today.
I was very troubled by the short bleep on CNN. It
stated she was at the "heart of the McMartin"
situation and although they made mention she, nor
any one else was ever convicted on that case - there
was more time spend telling about the charges.
I think the world owes Virginia McMartin an apology.
Through everything this family went thru - this woman
held her head up with dignity. This woman, her daughter
and grandchildren remind me constantly of the system
that went terribly wrong. Nothing could counter the
injustice done to them. It was the beginning of the
reason we need a witchhunt board in the first place to
debate this issue on. This case continues to haunt me
and always will. It's the first case I dealt with that made
me ashamed of the American justice system - a system
I have worked in since being a teenager.
Today - 10 years later - the witchhunts march on.
Laura Pasley
Date: Mon, 18 Dec 1995 23:35:18 -0500
Reply-To: False...@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: Virginia McMartin
To: Multiple recipients of list WITCHHNT <WITC...@MITVMA.MIT.EDU
I agree they are due an apology. I also believe we owe them many thanks for
being strong and fighting like they did. Although we still suffer through
the witch hunts today, there was much learned during the McMartin trials
which have helped others.
Date: Mon, 18 Dec 1995 21:19:31 -0800
From: George Hero <gh...@IX.NETCOM.COM
Subject: Virginia McMartin dies
To: Multiple recipients of list WITCHHNT <WITC...@MITVMA.MIT.EDU
Grandmother cleared in molestation case dies
TORRANCE, California (CNN) -- Virginia McMartin, a central figure in a
child molestation case that became the nation's longest criminal
prosecution,
died Sunday. Authorities attributed the death of the 88-year-old grandmother
to natural causes.
The saga of the McMartin Pre-School began in 1983, when a mother -- later
diagnosed as mentally ill -- called Los Angeles police to say she suspected
her
2-year-old son had been molested. Mrs. McMartin was arrested in March 1984
with her daughter, Peggy McMartin Buckey, and grandchildren, Ray and Peggy
Ann Buckey, along with three teachers.
In the months that followed, allegations were made that teachers at the
school had
molested dozens of the children. In 1986, felony child molestation charges
were
dismissed against all but Peggy McMartin Buckey and her son. They were
charged
with molesting 11 children over a five-year period. Mrs. Buckey was
acquitted in
January 1990 after a three-year trial. Raymond Buckey was acquitted of 40
counts
and a jury deadlocked on another eight counts against him in a second trial.
The entire case lasted seven years and cost Los Angeles County $13 million.
Jim Morris
"DedNdogYrs" <dednd...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20001208052320...@ng-fq1.aol.com...
> <The appointment that drew the most questions at the news conference
> was that of Senior Trial Deputy Lael Rubin as special counsel. Rubin
> the McMartin Pre-School case, an unsuccessful three-year prosecution that
was
> the most costly in county history.>
> *
> I'm surprised this person would be appointed to anything. This idiot
completely
> destroyed the business and lives of an entire family and several employees
on
> nothing evidence. The testimony of some of the children was just
ludicrous;
> there were stories of being taken to see pink elephants at a circus, on
> spaceships, and all kinds of other complete nonsense. The mother who
started
> the whole thing was a nut case. I could see suspecting the son but they
> arrested a half dozen middle aged and older women including one disabled
in a
> wheelchair. How could anyone think that several people of this kind would
all
> conspire together to molest children? I won't say it's 100% impossible
but
> it's close and requires a hell of a lot of evidence which they didn't
have.
> Dogs & children first.
Keep in mind that the McMartin case was the most expensive (and was the
longest!) in American criminal case history (not just in Los Angeles County
history!). Also, the metro desk editor for the LA Times (David Rosenzweig)
was putting out stories on behalf of the McMartin prosecution at the time of
the case and then married the McMartin prosecutor (Lael Rubin)!:
http://holysmoke.org/sdhok/sat17.htm
Now that same former metro desk editor (David Rosenzweig) is the federal
court reporter for the LA Times, does one really think that the LA Times is
going to cover Rubin's new appointment in depth (especially as at least one
current LA Times metro editor used to work under Rosenzweig when he used to
be the metro editor)! I think not!
Apparently, the new Los Angeles County District Attorney (Steve Cooley)
appointed Rubin because she was a supporter of his campaign and is a friend
as well. So he appoints a prosecutor who is the most prolific prosecutorial
"railroader" in American criminal case history! Apparently because she
supported his campaign (in the time of the LAPD Rampart scandal which Mr.
Cooley criticized Garcetti for not addressing in that gang bangers were
"railroaded" by bad cops!). Yet, Cooley has no problem putting in a
prosecutor who absolutely "railroaded" innocent people (such as the McMartin
family) in the most prolific prosecutorial "witchhunt" in American criminal
case history... One word describes his doing such: POLITICS!
When I spoke with Cooley privately a few months ago (before he won the
election), I mentioned the McMartin case to him, and he said that it was
like the O.J. Simpson case in that the jury didn't go the way the DA wanted.
However, I disagreed with him because with the O.J. Simpson case there was
evidence (especially the DNA evidence) that the jury just ignored (most
likely because the defense played the "race card"). But in the McMartin
Pre-School case, there was NO credible evidence! Only a "railroading"
prosecutor (in Lael Rubin) who was out of control! She ignored exculpatory
evidence (when she found out that the initial complaining witness' husband
had molested her child and blamed such on the McMartin Pre-School as she was
mentally ill along with being an alcoholic!). Lael Rubin should not even be
a prosecutor (and should definitely not have been appointed to a senior
position in Cooley's new regime). Just think if Virginia McMartin was your
grandmother.. What I didn't like about my conversation with Cooley is that
he (and Rubin as well) seemed to think that the McMartins were still guilty
and just got off (when in actuality, the McMartins were wrongly arrested and
imprisoned!).
Check out the links at the following Web site (especially the reviews about
the McMartin book and HBO film from 1995 which won three Emmys in 1996):
http://www.ags.uci.edu/~dehill/witchhunt/cases/mcmartin.htm
PS: You can still buy the HBO McMartin film via http://www.amazon.com (just
type in McMartin in the "video" search field there).
gemini...@excite.com
While you are at it you might want to check out
yet another web site, and know that all are not
of one mind on this moment in history on which
much in the way of healing remains unfinished:
http://www.davesweb.cnchost.com/mcmartin.htm
...geminiwalker
--
To learn more about me, go to:
http://home.earthlink.net/~chuard
updated 8/6/2000
To learn more about me, go to:
http://home.earthlink.net/~chuard
updated 8/6/2000
Jim Morris
bottom line is that no tunnels were found at the McMartin Pre-School (other
than what was made from prior excavation of the site), and O.J. Simpson
would have been found guilty by an objective jury.
Child molesters should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law, but
innocent people should not have been "railroaded" by an out of control
prosecutor (Lael Rubin). What would you do if a mentally ill woman (like
Judy Johnson) accused you of being a child molester when it was really her
husband who was the culprit (according to what I have read and watched).
Again, watch that HBO McMartin trial film (which starred James Woods) as it
is scary what Lael Rubin did to the McMartin family (simply go to
http://www.amazon.com and type in "McMartin" in the "video" search field to
find the film).
<gemini...@excite.com> wrote in message
news:3A3179D1...@excite.com...
Jim Morris
gemini...@excite.com
I know about the film.
It's government propaganda.
There's an awful lot going on nobody wants to
believe. That doesn't meant it isn't happening.
M. Simon
>Jim Morris wrote:
>>
>> Some are not of "one mind" with the O.J. Simpson situation either, but the
>> bottom line is that no tunnels were found at the McMartin Pre-School (other
>> than what was made from prior excavation of the site), and O.J. Simpson
>> would have been found guilty by an objective jury.
It sure looked to me like the police tampered with the evidence.
Not as uncommon as once believed in LA, eh?
M. Simon Space-Time Productions http://www.spacetimepro.com
Free CNC Machine Control Software
Free Source Code
Control the World From a Parallel Port
Jim Morris
production Bruno Malli (spelling?) shoes as well (of course, Simpson denied
ever owning and wearing a pair until he was seen wearing the shoes in video
from a NFL sideline coverage gig that he had done in the past!). Explain how
those Bruno Malli" shoe (bloody!) shoe prints were found at crime scene
(weren't they?!).
"M. Simon" <msi...@xta.com> wrote in message
news:3a325156...@news.xta.com...
Jim Morris
The McMartin Preschool case was one of the earliest and largest child sexual
abuse cases in this country. Although none of those charged were ever
convicted, the 28-month trial was the longest and costliest criminal
prosecution in U.S. history. This case is often cited as triggering the wave
of pre-school sexual abuse cases during the mid-1980s.
The case began in August 1983 when the mother of a 2 1/2 year-old boy
reported to police that her son had been abused by Raymond Buckey at the
McMartin Preschool in Manhattan Beach, California, an affluent community on
Santa Monica Bay. The school had been founded by Ray's grandmother, Virginia
McMartin, in the mid-sixties. His mother, Peggy McMartin Buckey, was an
administrator, and his sister, Peggy Ann Buckey was a public school teacher
who helped out at the pre-school during school vacations. Ray was the only
male teacher at the preschool.
After the initial accusation, Ray was arrested, but released due to lack of
evidence. The mother continued her allegations, claiming that her son
returned home from pre-school with his anus red and sore and surmising from
that that he had been sodomized, and claiming that he had witnessed bizarre
satanic rituals at the school. At the beginning of the investigation, police
wrote letters to 200 parents of current and former students telling them
that the pre-school was being investigated and questioning them about
possible molestation of their children.
After the letters went out, parents began questioning their children and the
children began telling stories of abuse at the preschool; that they had been
touched inappropriately, that their pictures had been taken, that they had
had been forced to engage in anal and oral sex, and forced to play a game
called "Naked Movie Star."
Dozens of the children were interviewed and examined by therapists
specializing in diagnosing sexual abuse. They implicated Peggy Ann Buckey
and other teachers as well as Ray. As time went on, the accusations
mushroomed from sexual abuse to include stories of bizarre satanic rituals,
where the McMartins mutilated animals and forced the children to touch
corpses, in hidden underground passageways beneath the school. No such
passageways were ever found. Some of the children's interviews were
videotaped and shown to jurors at trial.
In March 1984, police rearrested Ray along with his sister Peggy Ann, his
mother, Peggy, and grandmother Virginia, as well as three other teachers.
Charges against Virginia, Peggy, and the other teachers were dropped in 1986
for lack of evidence.
The first trial of Ray and his mother began in April 1987 and ended in April
1989 with acquittals on some counts and a deadlocked jury on others. Ray was
tried a second time, and in 1990 another jury was deadlocked on all counts.
The prosecutors chose not to retry him. Ray had spent five years in jail and
Peggy had spent two.
The lengthy and sensational McMartin case drew attention from the national
media, and is still cited today as a symbol of the dangers and difficulty of
using children's testimony. Some jurors in the first trial, when interviewed
after the verdict, said that it was the videotapes of the interviews with
the children that had prevented them from finding the McMartins guilty. They
said that they believed that some of the children had been abused, but that
the interviewing techniques had been so suggestive that they had not been
able to discern what really happened.
gemini...@excite.com
Lack of evidence had nothing to do with it.
It was proven that something happened to those
kids, and that they had been sexually abused.
Because of the way perpetrators work, it was
however difficult to come to grips with
evidence that would hold up in court...
*who* did *what* to *whom* *when*, how
many times, etc. Therefore, they were acquitted.
This does *not* mean they were innocent.
It does *not* mean that nothing happened.
It does *not* mean that there were no tunnels.
What it *does* mean is that powerful people
had terrible secrets to hide.
Not uncommon at all in sexual abuse circles.
Johnny Anonymous
McMartin fiasco in their defenses. Although there is a great deal of difference
between a pre-schooler and kids past the 2nd grade, pedophiles eagerly use the
McMartin case as an example of how children can be manipulated by "evil"
prosecutors.
Johnny Anonymous
DedNdogYrs wrote:
> <The appointment that drew the most questions at the news conference
> was that of Senior Trial Deputy Lael Rubin as special counsel. Rubin prosecuted
> the McMartin Pre-School case, an unsuccessful three-year prosecution that was
> the most costly in county history.>
Jim Morris
you of molesting her child when her husband actually did such (and a
"railroading" prosecutor like Lael Rubin ignores such and unjustly slams
you in jail for five years) we will be there for you as well!
You might want to check out the message boards at
http://www.crimenews2000.com
Forwarded:
----- Original Message -----
From: "MLYoung" <mly...@aol.comZAPTHIS>
Newsgroups: alt.showbiz.gossip
Sent: Friday, December 08, 2000 4:33 PM
Subject: Re: "Railroading" McMartin Prosecutor Appointed by New LA County DA
Steve Cooley
> >> the whole thing was a nut case. I could see suspecting the son but
they
> >> arrested a half dozen middle aged and older women including one
disabled
> >in a
> >> wheelchair.
>
> And the son, who was convicted of
> nothing, spent four years in jail awaiting
> trial, enduring trial, etc. Really horrible.
>
> >Keep in mind that the McMartin case was the most expensive (and was the
> >longest!) in American criminal case history (not just in Los Angeles
County
> >history!). Also, the metro desk editor for the LA Times (David
Rosenzweig)
> >was putting out stories on behalf of the McMartin prosecution at the time
of
> >the case and then married the McMartin prosecutor (Lael Rubin)!:
>
> Wow, didn't know that part. So much
> for objective reporting.
>
> >evidence! Only a "railroading"
> >prosecutor (in Lael Rubin) who was out of control! She ignored
exculpatory
>
> Don't forget the attention-hungry
> D.A.
>
> >evidence (when she found out that the initial complaining witness'
husband
> >had molested her child and blamed such on the McMartin Pre-School as she
was
> >mentally ill along with being an alcoholic!).
>
> Diagnosed schizophrenic as I recall.
>
> --margaret
>
<gemini...@excite.com> wrote in message
news:3A340E5A...@excite.com...
Jim Morris
am concerned...
"Johnny Anonymous" <john...@butterfly.net> wrote in message
news:3A33E9C0...@butterfly.net...
gemini...@excite.com
>
> The next time a schizophrenic (and alcohlic) "complaining witness" accuses
> you of molesting her child when her husband actually did such (and a
> "railroading" prosecutor like Lael Rubin ignores such and unjustly slams
> you in jail for five years) we will be there for you as well!
>
> You might want to check out the message boards at
> http://www.crimenews2000.com
>
Yes, and you might want to know what I know and
learn what I've learned...but I doubt it.
You're entitled to believe what you will...
but you should know that you do not speak
for everyone, and you may not even speak
for the majority. You *certainly* don't
speak for the survivors.
Michael Newton
the
> McMartin fiasco in their defenses. Although there is a great deal of
difference
> between a pre-schooler and kids past the 2nd grade, pedophiles eagerly
use the
> McMartin case as an example of how children can be manipulated by "evil"
> prosecutors.
>
> Johnny Anonymous
Following Ray Buckey's second mistrial in L.A., seven of the jurors held a
press conference and told reporters they were convinced that *someone* had
molested children at the preschool, but with the DA's shoddy presentation
(and pre-trial dismissal of charges against 5 other defendants), they
couldn't decide who was responsible. This, BTW, from the same DA who, around
the same time, tried to dismiss all charges against Hillside Strangler
Angelo Buono, proceeding only with the trial judge in that case refused to
sanction the dismissal and threatened to let the state attorney general
prosecute if the DA couldn't find his guts.
mn
mahab...@my-deja.com
"Michael Newton" <eyeo...@att.net> wrote:
>
> DedNdogYrs <dednd...@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:20001208052320...@ng-fq1.aol.com...
> > conspire together to molest children?
>
great a
> stretch of the imagination.
We now know that the allegations were pure hysteria, and the McMartins
were the victims of a witch hunt.
B.
>
> mn
>
>
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
mahab...@my-deja.com
gemini...@excite.com wrote:
>
> I know about the film.
> It's government propaganda.
> There's an awful lot going on nobody wants to
> believe. That doesn't meant it isn't happening.
>
Criminal charges need to be based on verifiable facts, not hysteria.
B.
Michael Newton
<mahab...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:912vvv$gf5$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> In article <K_2Y5.10778$Ei1.7...@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
> "Michael Newton" <eyeo...@att.net> wrote:
> >
> > DedNdogYrs <dednd...@aol.com> wrote in message
> > news:20001208052320...@ng-fq1.aol.com...
> > > How could anyone think that several people of this kind would all
> > > conspire together to molest children?
> >
> > With half the suspects members of the same family, it's not that
> great a
> > stretch of the imagination.
>
> We now know that the allegations were pure hysteria, and the McMartins
> were the victims of a witch hunt.
Seven out of twelve jurors at the second Buckey trial publicly disagree with
that opinion.
mn
mahab...@my-deja.com
At the time of this questioning, common "wisdom" was that children
never lie or fantasize about being abused, so that whatever the
children said was presumed to be true. So the questioners, instead of
patiently drawing out what the children's experiences actually were,
asked them questions like "did the teacher do such and such," and the
kids obligingly said yes. The creative ones helpfully told even better
stories than the prosecutors had come up with.
Since then it has been well documented that false "memories" easily can
be planted in young children, and that they can sincerely believe they
remember things that verifiably never happened. Preschool age children
in particular are likely to say anything they think will please adults,
and cannot differentiate between fantasy and reality.
mahab...@my-deja.com
No, it was not.
> Because of the way perpetrators work, it was
> however difficult to come to grips with
> evidence that would hold up in court...
> *who* did *what* to *whom* *when*, how
> many times, etc. Therefore, they were acquitted.
>
> This does *not* mean they were innocent.
> It does *not* mean that nothing happened.
> It does *not* mean that there were no tunnels.
> What it *does* mean is that powerful people
> had terrible secrets to hide.
> Not uncommon at all in sexual abuse circles.
>
> ...geminiwalker
>
> --
> To learn more about me, go to:
> http://home.earthlink.net/~chuard
> updated 8/6/2000
> To learn more about me, go to:
> http://home.earthlink.net/~chuard
> updated 8/6/2000
>
>
Jim Morris
you of being a child molester (when her husband really was the culprit) we
will see how much you rely on that jury's decision!
Jury decisions aren't perfect: Look how a jury let a murderer (O.J. Simpson)
"off the hook" Lael Rubin is a "railroading" prosecutor (who deliberately
ignored exculpatory information about Judy Johnson in the McMartin case) and
even tried to hide such from the defense... The McMartin case was a definite
"witchhunt" as Lael Rubin shouldn't be in a senior position in LA County DA
Steve Cooley's new regime! She is there because she supported Cooley's
campaign to defeat Garcetti (who is gone because of his regime's poor
handling of the O.J. trial and LAPD Rampart scandal). Rubin shouldn't even
still be a prosecutor after what she did in the McMartin case...
"Michael Newton" <eyeo...@att.net> wrote in message
news:0O7Z5.13143$Ei1.9...@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
Jim Morris
McMartin case thread at http://www.crimenews2000.com
<mahab...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:913158$hh2$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
Jim Morris
<mahab...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:9130i9$gvu$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> In article <3A327C65...@excite.com>,
> gemini...@excite.com wrote:
> >
> > I know about the film.
> > It's government propaganda.
> > There's an awful lot going on nobody wants to
> > believe. That doesn't meant it isn't happening.
> >
>
>
>
> Criminal charges need to be based on verifiable facts, not hysteria.
>
> B.
Exactly! Again, please check out the McMartin case thread at
http://www.crimenews2000.com
Jim Morris
to "railroad" the McMartin family) that it was the mentally ill (and
alcoholic) Judy Johnson who was the initial complaining witness. I don't
doubt that Johnson's son most likely was molested which is horrible. But it
was Johnson's husband who was the molester (according to what investigators
found out and conveyed to Rubin, but Rubin tried to keep such info away from
the defense). Johnson's initial complaint to the Manhattan Beach Police
Department started the worst prosecutorial witchhunt (by Lael Rubin) in US
criminal case history.
Then we find out last week that the new Los Angeles County DA (Steve Cooley)
has appointed Lael Rubin to a senior (and powerful) position in his regime!
Very concerning (and scary as well!).
"Michael Newton" <eyeo...@att.net> wrote in message
news:eO6Z5.25140$0r2.9...@bgtnsc07-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
mahab...@my-deja.com
"Michael Newton" <eyeo...@att.net> wrote:
>
> <mahab...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
> news:912vvv$gf5$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
news.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
> > "Michael Newton" <eyeo...@att.net> wrote:
> > >
> > > DedNdogYrs <dednd...@aol.com> wrote in message
> > > news:20001208052320...@ng-fq1.aol.com...
> > > > How could anyone think that several people of this kind would
all
> > > > conspire together to molest children?
> > >
> > > With half the suspects members of the same family, it's not that
> > great a
> > > stretch of the imagination.
> >
> > We now know that the allegations were pure hysteria, and the
McMartins
> > were the victims of a witch hunt.
>
> Seven out of twelve jurors at the second Buckey trial publicly
disagree with
> that opinion.
>
The witch hunt continues.
mahab...@my-deja.com
I didn't find a McMartin case thread at that URL. Perhaps you'd like to
read this one:
http://www.religioustolerance.org/ra_mcmar.htm
Jim Morris
as I just bookmarked it... Thanks for making it known to me. To get to the
McMartin case thread via http://www.crimenews2000.com, you scroll down to
the bottom of the page, and click on "Post to the Discussion..." (then click
on "Discussion du jour"):
<mahab...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:913aid$ptu$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
MrMateo
"Michael Newton" <eyeo...@att.net> wrote:
>
> <mahab...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
> news:912vvv$gf5$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
news.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
> > "Michael Newton" <eyeo...@att.net> wrote:
> > >
> > > DedNdogYrs <dednd...@aol.com> wrote in message
> > > news:20001208052320...@ng-fq1.aol.com...
> > > > How could anyone think that several people of this kind would
all
> > > > conspire together to molest children?
> > >
> > > With half the suspects members of the same family, it's not that
> > great a
> > > stretch of the imagination.
> >
> > We now know that the allegations were pure hysteria, and the
McMartins
> > were the victims of a witch hunt.
>
> Seven out of twelve jurors at the second Buckey trial publicly
disagree with
> that opinion.
But you need all twelve to get a conviction, right? The fact is,
the LACDA tried twice to convict Raymond Buckey. Twice, they failed.
Matthew
MrMateo
gemini...@excite.com wrote:
> Jim Morris wrote:
> >
> > The next time a schizophrenic (and alcohlic) "complaining witness"
accuses
> > you of molesting her child when her husband actually did such (and a
> > "railroading" prosecutor like Lael Rubin ignores such and unjustly
slams
> > you in jail for five years) we will be there for you as well!
> >
> > You might want to check out the message boards at
> > http://www.crimenews2000.com
> >
>
> Yes, and you might want to know what I know and
> learn what I've learned...but I doubt it.
>
> You're entitled to believe what you will...
> but you should know that you do not speak
> for everyone, and you may not even speak
> for the majority.
And you do? Give your arrogance a rest, pal.
You *certainly* don't speak for the survivors.
"Survivors" of what? Being brainwashed by an overzealous social
worker?
These "survivors" believe Raymond Buckey, et al, participated in
satanic ceremonies, that they were molested in public, and were taken
up in an aircraft.
Did you even read the transcripts of the interviews Kee
McFarlane had with some of those kids? If those kids were not being led
by the hand into believing they had been molested, and worse, then it
should have rained shit for three days over Los Angeles County.
Matthew
>
> ...geminiwalker
>
> --
> To learn more about me, go to:
> http://home.earthlink.net/~chuard
> updated 8/6/2000
> To learn more about me, go to:
> http://home.earthlink.net/~chuard
> updated 8/6/2000
>
>
MrMateo
Then you are talking about the gross incompetence of a prosecutor.
In truth, the only evidence that ANYONE was EVER abused by Raymond
Buckey were those bullshit memories created solely and specifically by
Kee McFarlane. No physical evidence ever existed.
And you, if you are in fact the true-crime author, know this.
Matthew
>
> mn
Michael Newton
MrMateo <hou...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:914bgi$l7b$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> But you need all twelve to get a conviction, right?
I'm glad you're aware of that, Matthew. Normally, you'd be reaching for your
hangman's noose before the suspects were indicted. Gotta kill those
pedophiles and "feed them their intestines," after all. Don't go all soft
and moderate on us, now.
mn
Michael Newton
> In article <3A341DF8...@excite.com>,
> gemini...@excite.com wrote:
> > Jim Morris wrote:
> > You're entitled to believe what you will...
> > but you should know that you do not speak
> > for everyone, and you may not even speak
> > for the majority.
>
> And you do? Give your arrogance a rest, pal.
There's a hoot, Mr. Lynch-law complaining about someone else's "arrogance."
LOL
mn
mothra...@my-deja.com
> Following Ray Buckey's second mistrial in L.A., seven of the jurors held a
> press conference and told reporters they were convinced that *someone* had
> molested children at the preschool, but with the DA's shoddy presentation
> (and pre-trial dismissal of charges against 5 other defendants), they
> couldn't decide who was responsible.
I remember this. As I recall, an African-American woman spoke on TV
about it, and I thought she said that the children had been "abused,"
not molested. Am I misremembering? It struck me at the time that those
children certainly had been abused, but not by anyone at the preschool.
Martha
Jim Morris
> While you are at it you might want to check out
> yet another web site, and know that all are not
> of one mind on this moment in history on which
> much in the way of healing remains unfinished:
> http://www.davesweb.cnchost.com/mcmartin.htm
> ...geminiwalker
With regard to the bogus assertion that there were "tunnels" at the McMartin
Pre-School site, you might want to check out the Web link which is
referenced below.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Morris" <jdtm...@earthlink.net>
Newsgroups:
misc.legal,us.legal,alt.lawyers,alt.lawyers.sue.sue.sue,alt.politics,alt.pol
itics.usa,us.politics,alt.politics.republicans,alt.politics.democrats.d,alt.
politics.elections
Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2000 9:00 PM
Subject: Re: "Railroading" McMartin Prosecutor (Lael Rubin) Appointed by New
LA County DA Steve Cooley
> Hi Kenneth,
>
> Just wanted to let your recent response was much agreed with... Check out
> the following Web link which shows that the "tunnels" were bogus as well:
>
> http://www.religioustolerance.org/tunnels.htm
>
> Any idea how one can get in touch with Peggy Ann Buckey as I would like to
> let her know about an article that will be coming out in a local LA
> newspaper next week (if there is a Web link for it which I think there
will
> be, I will post it here). I just found the following Web link:
>
> http://www.lawyersandjudges.com/products/notable_trials/abuse.shtml
>
> I just ordered a copy of that McMartin trial (HBO) film via the following
> Web link as amazon.com still has the flim in stock, but HBO is no longer
> selling it (as the film was taken fo the court transcripts and was well
> done):
>
>
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/6303597866/ingramorganizati/102-59746
> 97-2308155
>
> Did you check out the book by the Eberles:
>
>
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN%3D0879758090/ingramorganizatiA/102-59
> /102-5974697-2308155
>
> http://www.ags.uci.edu/~dehill/witchhunt/cases/mcmartin.htm
>
> http://www.ags.uci.edu/~dehill/witchhunt/cases/mcmartin.htm
>
> http://www.religioustolerance.org/ra_mcmar.htm
>
>
> "Kenneth Pangborn" <kenpa...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> > "Jim Morris" <jdtm...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> >
> >
> > > With regard to the "tunnels", it was apparently just some "quack"
> > mentioning
> > > such (after the fact) in a failing effort to keep the "witchhunt"
alive.
> > > Please feel free to post to the McMartin thread on the message board
via
> > > http://www.crimenews2000.com (scroll down to the bottom of the page to
> get
> > > to the message boards).. Look forward to keeping in touch with you as
> > well.
> > > You don't have the contact info to the McMartin family, do you? Just
> > > curious... Would be nice for them to know that there are many like us
> who
> > > believe that they were done wrong by an overzealous ("railroading")
and
> > out
> > > of control prosecutor (in Lael Rubin). The rumor that I heard is that
> she
> > > was going to be chief deputy under Cooley. I reread that LA Times
> article
> > > that I posted earlier to this thread and saw that the current Cooley
> > "Chief
> > > Deputy" is only there on an interim basis. Do you think Cooley is
going
> to eventually
> > > put Rubin in that position ("under the radar")?
kenpa...@earthlink.net wrote:
> > The "tunnels" have been mentioned or are linked via the ICRRT
website.
> > The claims are preposterous according to geologists. It is amazing that
a
> > "witchhunter" found what police and many other official agencies said
they
> > could not and geologists said was impossible at that location.
> > I met Peggy Ann Buckey and a couple of the lawyers at the VOCAL
> > conference that was held in the Los Angeles area in 1986. I even got to
> > dance with her at the Holiday Inn. I sort of wished I had been single,
she
> > was quite a looker. She was a very sweet kid. She wasn't even at the
> > pre-school when any of those kids were students, she was un UC-Berkeley
> > through her bachelor's and she was just about to get her master's in
> > education. So she hadn't been there for almost 5 years. Several of the
> kids
> > identified her under MacFarlane's grilling.
> >
> > Rubin is, as I said a "hysteric." she certainly would have been used
> as
> > poster girl for MCP's arguing that women should not be allowed in such
> > positions because they can't separate their emotions from their
> professional
> > duties. Rubin tend to be a "caped crusader" on any case she is on. She
> > really tripped off on the McMartin case. Her emotional level during that
> > case, if one observes from an objective distance, certainly gave rise to
> the
> > possible need for medication. I have seen other cases like this where
the
> > prosecutor becomes so emotionally involved in the case that it becomes
an
> > obsession. I think you can look at the O.J. Simpson case and brand
Marcia
> > Clark with that same iron. She blew the case. Clark's FIRST of MANY sins
> was
> > by boring the shit out of the jury with almost a month of DNA science.
> When
> > the jury's eyes started glazing over that was her first clue she had
gone
> > too far, but even when the snoring broke 80 decibels she didn't catch on
> > that the jury didn't understand the crap. She had gone WAY over their
> > heads. But her mannerisms and those of Darden alienated the jury. They
had
> a
> > trial consultant tell her not to do the things she was. Sadly her
various
> > hairdos and outfits for TV didn't help. It seems that extremes in the
> L.A.
> > DA's office seems to be a constant.
Jim Morris
Hi Kenneth,
Just wanted to let you know that your recent response was much agreed
with... Check out
the following Web link which shows that the "tunnels" assertion were bogus
as well:
http://www.religioustolerance.org/tunnels.htm
Any idea how one can get in touch with Peggy Ann Buckey as I would like to
let her know about an article that will be coming out in a local LA
newspaper next week (if there is a Web link for it which I think there will
be, I will post it here)?
I ordered a copy of that McMartin trial (HBO) film via the following
Web link as http://www.amazon.com still has the film in stock, but HBO is no
longer
selling it (as the film was taken from the court transcripts and was well
done):
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/6303597866/ingramorganizati/102-59746
97-2308155
Did you check out the book by the Eberles about the McMartin Pre-School
case?:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN%3D0879758090/ingramorganizatiA/102-59
/102-5974697-2308155
I just found the following Web link about the book as well:
http://www.lawyersandjudges.com/products/notable_trials/abuse.shtml
http://www.ags.uci.edu/~dehill/witchhunt/cases/mcmartin.htm
http://www.ags.uci.edu/~dehill/witchhunt/cases/mcmartin.htm
http://www.religioustolerance.org/ra_mcmar.htm
"Kenneth Pangborn" <kenpa...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:zRmZ5.62121$II2.5...@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
>
> "Jim Morris" <jdtm...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> news:ebdZ5.13353$U4.12...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
>
> > With regard to the "tunnels", it was apparently just some "quack"
> mentioning
> > such (after the fact) in a failing effort to keep the "witchhunt" alive.
> > Please feel free to post to the McMartin thread on the message board via
> > http://www.crimenews2000.com (scroll down to the bottom of the page to
get
> > to the message boards).. Look forward to keeping in touch with you as
> well.
> > You don't have the contact info to the McMartin family, do you? Just
> > curious... Would be nice for them to know that there are many like us
who
> > believe that they were done wrong by an overzealous ("railroading") and
> out
> > of control prosecutor (in Lael Rubin). The rumor that I heard is that
she
> > was going to be chief deputy under Cooley. I reread that LA Times
article
> > that I posted earlier to this thread and saw that the current Cooley
> "Chief
> > Deputy" is only there on an interim basis. Do you think Cooley is going
to
> > put Rubin in that position ("under the radar")?
>
>
Jim Morris
"Jim Morris" <jdtm...@earthlink.net> wrote in message:
> The next time that a mentally ill (alcoholic) woman (Judy Johnson) accuses
> you of being a child molester (when her husband really was the culprit) we
> will see how much you rely on that jury's decision!
>
> Jury decisions aren't perfect: Look how a jury let a murderer (O.J.
Simpson)
> "off the hook". Lael Rubin is a "railroading" prosecutor (who deliberately
> ignored exculpatory information about Judy Johnson in the McMartin case)
and
> even tried to hide such from the defense... The McMartin case was a
definite
> "witchhunt" as Lael Rubin shouldn't be in a senior position in LA County
DA
> Steve Cooley's new regime! She is there because she supported Cooley's
> campaign to defeat Garcetti (who is gone because of his regime's poor
> handling of the O.J. trial and LAPD Rampart scandal). Rubin shouldn't even
> still be a prosecutor after what she did in the McMartin case...
>
> "Michael Newton" <eyeo...@att.net> wrote in message
> news:0O7Z5.13143$Ei1.9...@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> >
> > <mahab...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
> > > We now know that the allegations were pure hysteria, and the McMartins
> > > were the victims of a witch hunt.
> > mn
http://www.axiomatic.net/ragnar/mcmartin.htm
"Fern5827" <fern...@aol.com> wrote:
> In the case of the McMartin debacle, is anyone aware of any of the
defendants
> receiving compensation for being incarcerated and sitting through a 28
month
> trial?
>
> I am thinking, particularly, of the teacher at McMartin who supposedly had
her
> children taken away from her and her husband due to investigations at
> McMartin.
> Any follow-up on her and her family who were egregiously victimized and
> persecuted by the state?
Hi Fern,
I am trying to find out about such as well... I heard that the McMartins
were
compensated ten or twelve million dollars for the "witchhunt" that they
experienced, but I have not been able to confirm such yet...
Forwarded:
Hi Kenneth,
Check out
the following Web link which shows that the "tunnels" assertions were bogus
as well:
http://www.religioustolerance.org/tunnels.htm
Any idea how one can get in touch with Peggy Ann Buckey as I would like to
let her know about an article that will be coming out in a local LA
newspaper next week (if there is a Web link for it which I think there will
be, I will post it here)?
I ordered a copy of that McMartin trial (HBO) film via the following
Web link as http://www.amazon.com still has the film in stock, but HBO is no
longer selling it (as the film was taken from the court transcripts and was
well
done):
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/6303597866/ingramorganizati/102-59746
97-2308155
Did you check out the book by the Eberles about the McMartin Pre-School
case?:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN%3D0879758090/ingramorganizatiA/102-59
/102-5974697-2308155
I just found the following Web link about the book as well:
http://www.lawyersandjudges.com/products/notable_trials/abuse.shtml
http://www.ags.uci.edu/~dehill/witchhunt/cases/mcmartin.htm
http://www.religioustolerance.org/ra_mcmar.htm
"Kenneth Pangborn" <kenpa...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:zRmZ5.62121$II2.5...@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
> "Jim Morris" <jdtm...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> > With regard to the "tunnels", it was apparently just some "quack"
> mentioning
> > such (after the fact) in a failing effort to keep the "witchhunt" alive.
> > Please feel free to post to the McMartin thread on the message board via
> > http://www.crimenews2000.com (scroll down to the bottom of the page to
get
> > to the message boards)..
> > You don't have the contact info to the McMartin family, do you? Just
> > curious... Would be nice for them to know that there are many
who
> > believe that they were done wrong by an overzealous ("railroading") and
> out
> > of control prosecutor (in Lael Rubin). The rumor that I heard is that
she
> > was going to be chief deputy under Cooley. I reread that LA Times
article
> > that I posted earlier to this thread and saw that the current Cooley
> "Chief
> > Deputy" is only there on an interim basis. Do you think Cooley is going
to eventually
> > put Rubin in that position ("under the radar")?
kenpa...@earthlink.net wrote:
> The "tunnels" have been mentioned or are linked via the ICRRT website.
> The claims are preposterous according to geologists. It is amazing that a
> "witchhunter" found what police and many other official agencies said they
> could not and geologists said was impossible at that location.
>
> I met Peggy Ann Buckey and a couple of the lawyers at the VOCAL
> conference that was held in the Los Angeles area in 1986. I even got to
> dance with her at the Holiday Inn. I sort of wished I had been single, she
> was quite a looker. She was a very sweet kid. She wasn't even at the
> pre-school when any of those kids were students, she was un UC-Berkeley
> through her bachelor's and she was just about to get her master's in
> education. So she hadn't been there for almost 5 years. Several of the
kids
> identified her under MacFarlane's grilling.
>
> Rubin is, as I said a "hysteric." she certainly would have been used
as
> poster girl for MCP's arguing that women should not be allowed in such
> positions because they can't separate their emotions from their
professional
> duties. Rubin tends to be a "caped crusader" on any case she is on. She
> really tripped off on the McMartin case. Her emotional level during that
> case, if one observes from an objective distance, certainly gave rise to
the
> possible need for medication. I have seen other cases like this where the
> prosecutor becomes so emotionally involved in the case that it becomes an
> obsession. I think you can look at the O.J. Simpson case and brand Marcia
> Clark with that same iron. She blew the case. Clark's FIRST of MANY sins
was
> by boring the shit out of the jury with almost a month of DNA science.
When
> the jury's eyes started glazing over that was her first clue she had gone
> too far, but even when the snoring broke 80 decibels she didn't catch on
> that the jury didn't understand the crap. She had gone WAY over their
> heads. But her mannerisms and those of Darden alienated the jury. They had
a
> trial consultant tell her not to do the things she was. Sadly her various
> hairdos and outfits for TV didn't help. It seems that extremes in the
L.A.
> DA's office seems to be a constant.
"Jim Morris" <jdtm...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:KG_X5.48054$II2.4...@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
> http://www.latimes.com/news/state/20001206/t000116739.html
>
> http://www.ags.uci.edu/~dehill/witchhunt/cases/mcmartin.htm
>
>
> Cooley Announces Staff Changes on 1st Day in Office
> Courts: He retains some Garcetti appointees and vows to release a plan on
> handling three-strikes cases.
>
>
> By TWILA DECKER, Times Staff Writer
>
> On his first full day on the job Tuesday, Los Angeles County Dist.
> Atty. Steve Cooley announced highly anticipated changes in his executive
> management staff.
> The appointees include two holdovers from the administration of
former
> Dist. Atty. Gil Garcetti, career prosecutors, former ranking members of
the
> district attorney's office and a former Municipal Court judge.
> The job of second-in-command went to Curt Livesay, who will be
interim
> chief deputy. Livesay, who has 35 years experience as a prosecutor and
> defense attorney, also served as chief deputy under former Dist. Atty.
John
> Van de Kamp.
> The appointment that drew the most questions at the news conference
was
> that of Senior Trial Deputy Lael Rubin as special counsel.
> Rubin will oversee Cooley's promised changes in the enforcement of
> California's three-strikes law.
> Rubin prosecuted the McMartin Pre-School case, an unsuccessful
> three-year prosecution that was the most costly in county history. The
> highly publicized case changed the way law enforcement officers across the
> country question children who may have been sexually abused.
> But Rubin said her entire career should not be summed up by one case.
> "I concluded my work on the McMartin case more than 10 years ago,"
she
> said. She noted that she had won a murder conviction just a few weeks ago.
> The district attorney said he and Rubin will present a three-strikes
> plan in 10 days.
> Cooley named retired Montebello Police Chief George Stephen Simonian
as
> chief of the district attorney's bureau of investigation.
> He appointed three assistant district attorneys:
> * Former Inglewood Municipal Judge Lawrence E. Mason will be in
charge
> of line operations. Mason was a deputy district attorney from 1975 to 1997
> and legal advisor to the Los Angeles County Grand Jury from 1989 to 1991.
> * Head Deputy Dist. Atty. Peter Bozanich will direct special
> operations. Bozanich, who joined the office in 1971, most recently ran the
> south juvenile division.
> * Assistant Dist. Atty. Sharon Matsumoto will keep her job as head of
> administration. She began the job in 1998.
> Cooley also named eight bureau directors:
> * Jacquelyn Lacey will be in charge of central operations. Lacey
joined
> the office in 1986. She has been part of the hate crimes suppression unit
> for the past year.
> * Head Deputy Dist. Atty. Curt Hazell will direct special operations.
> Hazell has been with the office since 1976.
> * David Guthman will oversee fraud and prosecutions. He has been with
> the office since 1977. During the past two years, Guthman has served as
> director of the bureau of management and budget.
> * Deputy Dist. Atty. Janice Maurizi will direct Region I of branch
and
> area operations. She has been with the office since 1984.
> * Deputy Dist. Atty. John Allen will remain as head of Region II of
> branch and area operations. Allen has been with the district attorney's
> office since 1983.
> * Former journalist Joseph Scott, who helped run Cooley's campaign,
> will serve as director of communications.
> * William R. Mangan, a commander in the Los Angeles County Sheriff's
> Department, will direct the Bureau of Management and Budget.
> * Former journalist Carol Baker will remain as acting director of
crime
> prevention and youth services. She has served in that job since 1998.
>
> AP 18 Dec 95 20:02 EST V0140
>
> Virginia McMartin Dead At 88
>
> TORRANCE, Calif. (AP) -- Virginia McMartin, the grandmother acquitted
of
> molesting children at her pre-school in the nation's longest and costliest
> criminal case, has died. She was 88.
> McMartin, who bitterly denied the charges leveled against her, her
> daughter, her grandson and pre-school staff, was pronounced dead Sunday in
> the emergency room at Little Company of Mary Hospital.
> "It was natural causes. She apparently had a series of strokes lately,"
> said police Lt. David Marsden.
> McMartin founded the now-defunct McMartin Preschool in Manhattan Beach,
> which became the focus of a child abuse investigation in 1983 when a
mother
> later diagnosed as mentally ill told police she suspected her 2
1/2-year-old
> son had been molested.
> McMartin was arrested in 1984 with her daughter, Peggy McMartin Buckey,
> and grandchildren, Ray and Peggy Ann Buckey, and three teachers.
> In the months that followed, allegations were made that teachers at the
> school had molested dozens of children, often during bizarre rituals.
> McMartin became a familiar figure in the heavily-publicized case as she
went
> to court in her wheelchair.
> In 1986, felony child molestation charges were dismissed against all
but
> Peggy McMartin Buckey and her son. They were charged with molesting 11
> children over a five-year period.
> Mrs. Buckey was acquitted in 1990 after a three-year trial. The same
> year, Raymond Buckey was acquitted of 40 counts and a jury deadlocked on
> another eight counts against him in a second trial.
> The entire case lasted seven years and cost Los Angeles County $13
> million, making it the longest and costliest criminal prosecution in U.S.
> history. The O.J. Simpson trial cost $9 million.
>
>
> Date: Mon, 18 Dec 1995 22:58:51 -0500
> From: "Laura E. Pasley" <LEPa...@AOL.COM
> Subject: Virginia McMartin
> To: Multiple recipients of list WITCHHNT <WITC...@MITVMA.MIT.EDU
>
> I'm sure you all have heard Virginia (the grandmother)
> and owner of the McMartin Pre-School died in her
> sleep today.
>
> I was very troubled by the short bleep on CNN. It
> stated she was at the "heart of the McMartin"
> situation and although they made mention she, nor
> any one else was ever convicted on that case - there
> was more time spend telling about the charges.
>
> I think the world owes Virginia McMartin an apology.
> Through everything this family went thru - this woman
> held her head up with dignity. This woman, her daughter
> and grandchildren remind me constantly of the system
> that went terribly wrong. Nothing could counter the
> injustice done to them. It was the beginning of the
> reason we need a witchhunt board in the first place to
> debate this issue on. This case continues to haunt me
> and always will. It's the first case I dealt with that made
> me ashamed of the American justice system - a system
> I have worked in since being a teenager.
>
> Today - 10 years later - the witchhunts march on.
>
> Laura Pasley
>
>
> Date: Mon, 18 Dec 1995 23:35:18 -0500
> Reply-To: False...@AOL.COM
> Subject: Re: Virginia McMartin
> To: Multiple recipients of list WITCHHNT <WITC...@MITVMA.MIT.EDU
>
> I agree they are due an apology. I also believe we owe them many thanks
for
> being strong and fighting like they did. Although we still suffer through
> the witch hunts today, there was much learned during the McMartin trials
> which have helped others.
>
>
> Date: Mon, 18 Dec 1995 21:19:31 -0800
> From: George Hero <gh...@IX.NETCOM.COM
> Subject: Virginia McMartin dies
> To: Multiple recipients of list WITCHHNT <WITC...@MITVMA.MIT.EDU
>
> Grandmother cleared in molestation case dies
>
> TORRANCE, California (CNN) -- Virginia McMartin, a central figure in a
> child molestation case that became the nation's longest criminal
> prosecution,
> died Sunday. Authorities attributed the death of the 88-year-old
grandmother
> to natural causes.
>
> The saga of the McMartin Pre-School began in 1983, when a mother -- later
> diagnosed as mentally ill -- called Los Angeles police to say she
suspected
> her
> 2-year-old son had been molested. Mrs. McMartin was arrested in March 1984
> with her daughter, Peggy McMartin Buckey, and grandchildren, Ray and
Peggy
> Ann Buckey, along with three teachers.
>
> In the months that followed, allegations were made that teachers at the
> school had
> molested dozens of the children. In 1986, felony child molestation charges
> were
> dismissed against all but Peggy McMartin Buckey and her son. They were
> charged
> with molesting 11 children over a five-year period. Mrs. Buckey was
> acquitted in
> January 1990 after a three-year trial. Raymond Buckey was acquitted of 40
> counts
> and a jury deadlocked on another eight counts against him in a second
trial.
>
> The entire case lasted seven years and cost Los Angeles County $13
million.
Jim Morris
> You keep ignoring the fact (like Lael Rubin did in her overzealous pursuit
> to "railroad" the McMartin family) that it was the mentally ill (and
> alcoholic) Judy Johnson who was the initial complaining witness. I don't
horrible. But it
> was Johnson's husband who was the molester (abuser) according to what
investigators
> found out and conveyed to Rubin, but Rubin tried to keep such info away
from
> the defense). Johnson's initial complaint to the Manhattan Beach Police
> Department started the worst prosecutorial witchhunt (by Lael Rubin) in US
> criminal case history.
>
> Then we find out last week that the new Los Angeles County DA (Steve
Cooley)
> has appointed Lael Rubin to a senior (and powerful) position in his
regime!
> Very concerning (and scary as well!).
From: "Jim Morris" <jdtm...@earthlink.net>
Newsgroups:
misc.legal,us.legal,alt.lawyers,alt.lawyers.sue.sue.sue,alt.politics,alt.pol
itics.usa,us.politics,alt.politics.republicans,alt.politics.democrats.d,alt.
politics.elections
Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2000 5:00 PM
Subject: Re: "Railroading" McMartin Prosecutor (Lael Rubin) Appointed by New
LA County DA Steve Cooley
> Hi Ken,
>
> What is the direct Web link to that "ICCRT" site? Via at least one of the
> following Web sites (http://www.religioustolerance.org/tunnels.htm and at
> http://www.axiomatic.net/ragnar/mcmartin.htm), it is mentioned that "Dr.
> Stickel" was a professor (or similar) at UCLA, but a telephone call
> confirmed that he had no such affiliation... Also, there were supposedly
> earlier trash fill holes (or similar) that might have been thought to be
the
> "tunnels". But the key is that there were no trap door (or similar)
> "entrances" in the concrete slab foundation of the McMartin Pre-School
(not
> even any "entrances" that were sealed!). The "tunnel" assertion was bogus
> (according to what I have read that has been ojectively written). There is
> no doubt in my mind that the McMartin family was "railroaded" (in the most
> prolific prosecutorial "witchhunt" in American criminal case history) by
DDA
> Lael Rubin (as seen in that HBO film about the McMartin trials). How the
new
> LA County DA (Steve Cooley) can "reward" her (in return for her supporting
> his campaign) and ignore what she did to the McMartin family is a further
> travesty...
>
> Your posts to this thread have much appreciated and have been "on the
money"
> as well (as I look forward to keeping in touch with you).
>
> "Kenneth Pangborn" <kenpa...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> news:QnUZ5.26$UN1....@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
> >
> > "Jim Morris" <jdtm...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> > news:K3JZ5.65631$II2.5...@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
> > > The following is another Web site which claims that the "tunnels"
> > assertions
> > > were bogus:
> > >
> > > http://www.axiomatic.net/ragnar/mcmartin.htm
> >
> > here is a simple SCIENTIFIC answer to the hysterical crap on sites like
> the
> > ICCRT website:
> >
> >
> >
> > 1. The soils under the McMartin site are primarily very compacted
Holocene
> > marine sand deposits, horizontally layered over with two distinct strata
> of
> > fill: one older, loose fill and one more recent compacted fill which was
> > most likely put in place during the construction of the foundation of
the
> > school. Both of these fill layers also consisted largely of sand, while
> the
> > earlier fill also contained a great deal of organic material and refuse.
> > Some minor interlayers of clay are also present between the Holocene
sands
> > and the older fill layers. (reference attached Appendix 1.3a from Dr.
Gary
> > Stickel's study: a letter from Dr. Don Michael, his geotech consultant
> > <geol-mm.txt>)
> >
> > This type of soil configuration is more or less stable for the support
of
> > gravitational loads provided it has been properly prepared and compacted
> > prior to construction. The Holocene sands contain approximately 30%
> > silt/clay mixed in with the sand and thus are also what is generally
> termed
> > "partially expansive." Excavating in such soils without maintaining an
> > appropriate angle of repose (which I would guesstimate as around
> > 1.5Horiz.:1Vert. for these soil conditions) or extensive engineered
> shoring
> > would most likely result in progressive collapse. Even a small tunnel
> would
> > most have most likely resulted in structural failure without some heavy
> > shoring. By heavy shoring, I mean steel and timber lagging. Plywood and
> 4x4
> > wood posts would not be structurally adequate. Dr. Stickel found no
> evidence
> > of piling or lagging. If the "tunnels" had been in place for a
significant
> > period of time with such reinforcement, the building would likely have
> been
> > seriously undermined. Even small unsupported gaps under a foundation can
> > have very serious consequences. Also, shoring is VERY expensive and
> requires
> > an engineer's design to do it right.
gemini...@excite.com
me a long time ago.
...geminiwalker
gemini...@excite.com
Yes, I have.
And don't tell me what I know.
I know how perpetrators work,
and why the children would
describe things they way they do.
Obviously, you don't. And that's
fine. All that means is that you
don't know. It *still* doesn't
mean it didn't happen.
gemini...@excite.com
it, too. Interesting that it's the ONLY one about the McMartin Preschool
case that is out of print and hard to find. I wonder why?
Dirty Secrets : The True Story of the McMartin Preschool Child Abuse
Case
by Kevin Cody
Michael Newton
<gemini...@excite.com> wrote in message
news:3A3934BD...@excite.com...
> And don't tell me what I know.
Matt can't even tell you what *he* knows. Amazing, considering there's so
little of it.
Ask him about lynching, though, and watch his beady little eyes light up
with Xmas spirit.
mn
Kevin Burnett
<gemini...@excite.com> wrote:
[snip]
> Yes, I have.
First, we have this:
> And don't tell me what I know.
> I know how perpetrators work,
> and why the children would
> describe things they way they do.
Then, we get this:
>
> Obviously, you don't. And that's
> fine. All that means is that you
> don't know. It *still* doesn't
> mean it didn't happen.
You can tell others what they know, but others aren't allowed to do the same
to you?
--
Kevin Burnett http://www.catnip.org/
mahab...@my-deja.com
Unfortunately, it doesn't mean it DID happen, either. Yes it is true
that children are molested, but it is also true that children easily
can be manipulated into "remembering" things that verifiably never
happened.
In the McMartin case, the way the children were interrogated tainted
their testimony. A great deal of what they said was obvious fantasy.
With no corroborating evidence, it is most likely nothing happened and
the allegations were pure hysteria.
B.
MrMateo
But that is just it. It didn't happen. And if you choose to
believe otherwise despite the something from nothing interviews
conducted by Kee McFarlane (and no reasonable person can look at the
transcripts and say otherwise; that is just not how you conduct
interviews with children who may have been sexually abused), then you
are extremely gullible.
Jim Morris
"witchhunt" for you) not credible to you. Go to jail for five years as an
innocent man (like Ray Buckey did), and you will be "singing" a different
tune? Again, check out the "discussion boards" at
http://www.crimenews2000.com
<gemini...@excite.com> wrote in message
news:3A39345E...@excite.com...
DedNdogYrs
Doesn't mean it did either. And you have to be sure it did before destroying
lives.
Dogs & children first.
gemini...@excite.com
No, I can only tell you what you *don't* know.
gemini...@excite.com
>
> Is any ojective piece of information (which doesn't peepetuate the McMartin
> "witchhunt" for you) not credible to you. Go to jail for five years as an
> innocent man (like Ray Buckey did), and you will be "singing" a different
> tune? Again, check out the "discussion boards" at
> http://www.crimenews2000.com
I wish I believed that jail was the answer, but
I don't, so that's pretty much a moot point.
Morethanconquerors.org has a lot more to say
to me than a web site designed by the false
memory syndrome foundation and funded by the
government.
No thanks.
...geminiwalker
Jim Morris
> > The next time that a mentally ill (alcoholic) woman (Judy Johnson)
accuses
> > you of being a child molester (when her husband really was the culprit)
we
> > will see how much you rely on that jury's decision!
> >
> > Jury decisions aren't perfect: Look how a jury let a murderer (O.J.
> Simpson)
> > "off the hook". Lael Rubin is a "railroading" prosecutor (who
deliberately
> > ignored exculpatory information about Judy Johnson in the McMartin case)
> and
> > even tried to hide such from the defense... The McMartin case was a
> definite
> > "witchhunt" as Lael Rubin shouldn't be in a senior position in LA County
> DA
> > Steve Cooley's new regime! She is there because she supported Cooley's
> > campaign to defeat Garcetti (who is gone because of his regime's poor
> > handling of the O.J. trial and LAPD Rampart scandal). Rubin shouldn't
even
> > still be a prosecutor after what she did in the McMartin case...
The following are some additional Web sites that you might want to check out
if interested further:
http://users.cybercity.dk/~ccc44406/smwane/McMartin2.htm
http://www.ipt-forensics.com/journal/volume7/j7_2_1_12.htm
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/archive/1995/950522/950522.television.html
http://www.crimenews2000.com/cgi-bin/wwwthread/showflat.pl?Cat=&Board=today&
Number=1367&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5
Jim Morris
<gemini...@excite.com> wrote in message
news:3A39378E...@excite.com...
Alex Constantine
dednd...@aol.com (DedNdogYrs) wrote:
> I'm surprised this person would be appointed to anything. This idiot
> completely
> destroyed the business and lives of an entire family and several
> employees on
> nothing evidence.
"Nothing evidence" ‹ a child comes home from preschool bleeding
from the anus. "Skeptics" in the media, giving every appearance of
covering up the crime, claim the child came home "with a red bottom" ‹
to suppress the true facts in the case by spinning the evidence away
from public comprehension with false claims like "nothing evidence."
"Nothing evidence" ‹ Several witnesses die, including a former
police officer who was run out of the department for defending the
children and turning up evidence confirming their accounts, "hanged
himself" after learning that Ray Buckey had somehow gotten possession of
official documents belonging to the officer.
"Nothing evidence" ‹ Tunnels under the preschool, as described by
the children, confirmed by five independent earth scientists.
"Nothing evidence" ‹ Black robes and satanic paraphenalia found in
the closet of one suspect.
"Nothing evidence" ‹ The FMSF, an organization formerly run by a
pedophila advocate, the disgraced Ralph Underwager, and CIA mind control
personnel, dream up reasons why the guilty were "innocent," and the
innocent were "guilty."
"Nothing evidence" ‹ a group of psychologists making up a county
task force on ritual abuse are poisoned, one incapacitated for life,
harassed and maligned by the press for speaking out on the MOUNTAIN OF
EVIDENCE IN THE MCMARTIN CASE THAT SUPPORTS THE ALLEGATIONS OF CHILDREN
WHO HAVE NEVER RECANTED AND NEVER WILL.
The smears of the McMartin children and their theraposts are not
to be taken seriously by anyone who knows the case, as opposed to those
who have a vested interest in covering up the crimes that occurred at
the preschool. The vultures who claim there is "nothing evidence" are
themselves suffering from media programming, and like mindless zombies,
repeat the nothing "coverage" of a corrupt media.
‹ ALEX CONSTANTINE
Jim Morris
likely by the initial complaining witness' (Judy Johnson's) husband (who was
with the child the night before those supposed symptoms appeared). Keep in
mind that such information was kept from the defense by the unethical
prosecutor (Lael Rubin). Judy Johnson's son had even admitted that his
Father had "poked" him (as such had been kept from the defense as well). In
addition, it was also kept from the defense that the initial complaining
witness (Judy Johnson) was mentally ill (she was a diagnosed paranoid
schizophrenic) as well as an alcohic (who drank herself to death). Judy
Johnson even claimed that her estranged husband had molested her son (this
was kept from the defense as well), and her estranged husband later got
custody of her son after Johnson died (pretty irresponsible of the justice
system to let such happen while innocent defendants such as the McMartin
family were being "railroaded" to include unjustly spending years in jail
while the most likely culprit had custody of Johnson's son and wouldn't let
the son testify according to my information). After Judy Johnson filed the
initial complaint, then the Manhattan Beach Police Department sent out a
letter, and the rest was hysterical history..
Also, the "tunnels" assertion was bogus as well (as no "tunnels" were ever
found!). The key here is that the McMartin Pre-School was built on a
concrete slab foundation (and there were no cuts in the concrete where the
"trap doors" were supposed to be "located" according to the "testimony" of
the young children). There weren't even any filled-in spots where the "trap
doors" were supposed to be according to the children. No "trap doors", no
"tunnels"!
It is scary that there are still "witch hunters" out there...
http://www.ipt-forensics.com/journal/volume7/j7_2_1_26.htm
http://www.religioustolerance.org/tunnels.htm
http://www.axiomatic.net/ragnar/mcmartin.htm
