Slain Porn Star Linked to Snuff Film
tinydancer
WHITEMARSH, Pa. (AP) - A Canadian porn actress found stabbed to death last
month may have been killed while shooting a film that was to have simulated
the murder of a woman during sex, prosecutors said.
DNA clues and a scrawled note referring to a ``snuff'' video connect
photographer Anthony J. Frederick to the death of 23-year-old Natel King,
whose body was found in a trash-filled ravine in March, District Attorney
Bruce Castor said at a preliminary hearing Friday.
Frederick's attorney, Daniel-Paul Alva, said his client had nothing to do
with snuff videos.
``We don't know who killed her,'' he said. ``What we do know is that my
client is in the unsavory business of photographing women in very
compromising positions. But that kind of business was entered into
voluntarily by the victim.''
Frederick, 46, was being held for trial on first- and third-degree murder
charges. His assistant, Jennifer Mitkus, 29, was held on charges of lying to
authorities and hindering apprehension.
King, who was from the Toronto area, disappeared Feb. 29 after posing for
Fredericks in a hard-core bondage shoot that had been arranged over the
Internet, authorities said. Her body was found nearly a month later, naked
and slashed and still wearing bondage devices.
Castor said police found a note in a camera bag in Frederick's home that
served as a contract between a photographer and an actor. It listed various
types of video and photo shoots and used the phrase ``snuff vid.''
A snuff video is a pornographic film depicting someone being murdered, but
prosecutors believe King was supposed to only simulate death in the video.
Detectives obtained several bloodstained items from Frederick's car and from
his apartment in the Philadelphia suburb of Conshohocken, and the DNA
matched that of Frederick and King, authorities said.
Authorities said still photos Frederick provided to police after his arrest
show King displaying bondage paraphernalia similar to a leather device found
with her body.
Michael Snyder
"tinydancer" <tinyd...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:sjyic.43529$Yw5....@bignews4.bellsouth.net...
> Slain Porn Star Linked to 'Snuff' Film
>
>
> WHITEMARSH, Pa. (AP) - A Canadian porn actress found stabbed to death last
> month may have been killed while shooting a film that was to have
simulated
> the murder of a woman during sex, prosecutors said.
>
> DNA clues and a scrawled note referring to a ``snuff'' video connect
> photographer Anthony J. Frederick to the death of 23-year-old Natel King,
> whose body was found in a trash-filled ravine in March, District Attorney
> Bruce Castor said at a preliminary hearing Friday.
Editor's note: if true, this would be one of the first (if not THE first)
such "snuff films" ever actually encountered by any US LE agency.
To be perfectly clear, "snuff films" are a myth. They never existed.
Alex
news:B%yic.7897$Fo4....@typhoon.sonic.net...
Correct. And again in this case, they don't even claim they
have the tape.
Alex
Alex
"tinydancer" <tinyd...@nospam.com> schreef in bericht
news:sjyic.43529$Yw5....@bignews4.bellsouth.net...
Yeah? So where's the tape.
I mean, this snuff stuff is the stuff of legend. No one, including the FBI
has ever found a snuff movie (let alone a "snuff movie industry" as some
anti porn campaigners claim exists).
Maybe it's because most criminals are smart enough not to create a
permanent record of a capital offense. Heaven knows, people tape
everything else.
I would be surprised that in this case, the prosecutor would
be the first in the world to actually get his hands on a snuff movie.
Alex
XXX
Ummm... so what exactly do you edit?
El Senor
> To be perfectly clear, "snuff films" are a myth. They never existed.
Yup...but this could be an accident that occured during filming of one of
these 'fake' snuff videos, which is a completely different scenario.
-Mike
Patty
Photographer faces trial in murder of adult entertainer
Katie O'Connor ,
The Pottstown Mercury
04/24/2004
WHITEMARSH -- Anthony J. Frederick smiled and kissed his wife on the cheek Friday after
murder charges were held for trial against him in the killing of a Canadian adult film
actress and model.
Hindering apprehension and unsworn falsification charges were held against his photo
assistant, Jennifer Mitkus of Oaks, and her bail was changed to 10 percent of $100,000.
Montgomery County District Attorney Bruce L. Castor Jr. said additional charges might be
filed against Mitkus as the investigation continues and DNA results come back from
testing.
"She either participated or assisted in the disposal of the body," he said.
Castor said that Natel King was killed Feb. 29 in the basement of an apartment at 105 W.
Third Ave. in Conshohocken and that blood found in the basement is hers.
"She did not leave that place alive," he said. "And he erased all the photos he took at
the Conshohocken apartment."
Detectives found King's blood in Frederick's car and a photo depicting a backdrop
identical to the one that was wrapped around King's body when she was found March 23,
Castor said.
During a search of Frederick's home at 1124 Bayless Place in Lower Providence on March 24,
county detectives found a camera bag that contained a handwritten contract listing sexual
acts to be performed. One of those acts included a "snuff vid."
According to Castor, "snuff" depicts someone being murdered while having sex.
"We don't know if that contract relates to her," Frederick's lawyer, Daniel-Paul Alva,
said. "It was all crumbled up, and we don't know how old it was."
King, who was a psychology major in her second year at Phoenix University, used the stage
name Taylor Sumers and was an aspiring adult entertainer.
She traveled to Conshohocken from Mississauga, Ontario, to work with Frederick on Feb. 29
in the rented Conshohocken apartment.
She was reported missing by her roommate March 4, and her naked body was found the
afternoon of March 23 off River Road in Whitemarsh. A ball gag was also found wrapped
around King's face.
Frederick and Mitkus were placed under surveillance when King's body was discovered,
Castor said, and were arrested at midnight. Frederick was charged with first- and
third-degree murder.
In photos Frederick took of King and then gave to police, a similar ball gag is in King's
mouth and strapped around her head.
"She's dead as a result of stab wounds. He was the last person to see her alive. She's
naked and has bondage with her, just like she did in the photos," Castor said after
Frederick was arrested.
According to the affidavit of probable cause, King was stabbed multiple times in the
chest, neck and hands. One of the wounds went through her neck, entering under her left
ear and exiting under her right ear.
In an interview with county detectives on March 6, Frederick said he met King early Feb.
29 at the Hampton Inn in Oaks and held two photo shoots with her, one of which depicted
"light bondage," police said.
King and Frederick then drove separately to the Perkiomen Hotel and met with Mitkus,
according to police, who said that all three then drove to the apartment in Conshohocken,
where King and Frederick continued their bondage photo shoot in the basement.
Mitkus and King argued about something, and after the argument, King got her last phone
call at 5:34 p.m., police said.
King's roommate reported her missing March 4, and on March 5, investigators found King's
red 1992 Saturn parked near the Conshohocken apartment.
Inside the apartment, investigators found cut white cord rope, shackles attached to the
ceiling of the basement, duct tape, a battery-operated sexual stimulation device covered
with what appeared to be dried blood and a glass jar containing a red liquid, according to
the affidavit.
A handwritten poem, part of which read, "Cut with a knife/ Blood does flow/ You may bleed
out/ Death coming on slow .. was also found in the apartment.
Picture of victim and suspected killers
http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/nation/2528786
Bo Raxo
"Michael Snyder" <msn...@redhat.com> wrote in message
news:B%yic.7897$Fo4....@typhoon.sonic.net...
Well, never existed yet. Every day brings a new possibility:
http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?click_id=13&art_id=qw1082379463407B263&set_id=1
'Snuff murder' accused fit to stand trial
April 19 2004 at 02:57PM
A 25-year-old man who allegedly murdered and sexually assaulted a young
woman in what has been claimed to be South Africa's first snuff murder, will
stand trial from August 30, 2004.
Ronald Edward Grimsley of Fontainebleau, Randburg, facing charges of rape,
indecent assault, aggravated robbery and murder, appeared in the
Johannesburg High Court on Monday.
In March this year, Grimsley's advocate requested that the accused be sent
for psychological evaluation and observation.
The prosecutor, Joan Spies, told the court on Monday that Grimsley's family
had apparently not had the accused evaluated in the interim and asked that
the case be set down for trial.
The "snuff murder" hit the headlines after the body of Tanya Kelly
Flowerday, 18, was found on the pavement in Durham Street, Darrenwood, in
June last year.
Earlier claims by Grimsley that two drug dealers had filmed the death of
Flowerday to sell on the overseas market have not been substantiated. - Sapa
Michael Snyder
"El Senor" <no-sp...@daewgfdsajhiophgrea.net> wrote in message
news:wmDic.32988$2v....@nwrdny02.gnilink.net...
"One of these..." -- hope you don't mean to imply that fake snuff films are
common.
The first "snuff film" was indeed a fake. There haven't exactly been a
flood of similar
fakes since then, though. The idea that there is a huge demand for "fake
snuff films"
feeds into the same myth that the idea of real snuff films feeds into --
that large numbers
of men would pay to see women raped and murdered.
Michael Snyder
"Bo Raxo" <invasio...@thepentagon.removethis.com> wrote in message
news:l9Hic.11152$e4....@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>
> "Michael Snyder" <msn...@redhat.com> wrote in message
> news:B%yic.7897$Fo4....@typhoon.sonic.net...
> >
> > "tinydancer" <tinyd...@nospam.com> wrote in message
> > news:sjyic.43529$Yw5....@bignews4.bellsouth.net...
> > > Slain Porn Star Linked to 'Snuff' Film
> > >
> > >
> > > WHITEMARSH, Pa. (AP) - A Canadian porn actress found stabbed to death
> last
> > > month may have been killed while shooting a film that was to have
> > simulated
> > > the murder of a woman during sex, prosecutors said.
> > >
> > > DNA clues and a scrawled note referring to a ``snuff'' video connect
> > > photographer Anthony J. Frederick to the death of 23-year-old Natel
> King,
> > > whose body was found in a trash-filled ravine in March, District
> Attorney
> > > Bruce Castor said at a preliminary hearing Friday.
> >
> >
> > Editor's note: if true, this would be one of the first (if not THE
first)
> > such "snuff films" ever actually encountered by any US LE agency.
> >
> > To be perfectly clear, "snuff films" are a myth. They never existed.
> >
>
> Well, never existed yet. Every day brings a new possibility:
>
>
http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?click_id=13&art_id=qw1082379463407B263&set_id=1
True, but as I have said for years now, if anyone ever does make a snuff
film,
it will be the fault of all the feminist hystericists who have kept the
concept of
the snuff film alive and in the public eye all these years.
vivisectrix
>"One of these..." -- hope you don't mean to imply that fake snuff films
>are common. The first "snuff film" was indeed a fake. There haven't
>exactly been a flood of similar fakes since then, though. The idea that
>there is a huge demand for "fake snuff films" feeds into the same myth
>that the idea of real snuff films feeds into -- that large numbers of men
>would pay to see women raped and murdered.
I've never heard anybody say or imply that "large numbers" of men would
pay to see women raped and murdered. If I heard someone say that, I'd blow
them off as a psycho-zealot with a moronic agenda. I have heard it said
that *some* people would pay very large amounts of money to see someone
tortured, raped and murdered.
I wouldn't, because I'd think it was rude to pay money for such a thing...
to create an economic niche that required that people be murdered for my
pleasure (although I sometimes feel a little bummed that I wasnt born
during the time period when Romans were doin' lots of torture and fighting
in the Coliseum). But if a snuff film made it onto the internet, I'd
certainly view it. I view all the real torture/murder vids I can find as
it is, and collect crime scene photos that trigger me sexually. I suspect
a lot of people do. Most of them wouldn't admit it if they were sexually
excited by such things though. And of those of us who would admit such
things sexually excited us, I suspect most would be men. I don't know how
rare I am with my twisted prefs, but I know I'm very rare as a woman who
admits to such twisted prefs.
Vivi
--
I wanna play with a pathetic suicidal masochist. If you qualify,
or if you're just curious, you might find me on irc.bondage.com
in channel #torture.
Bo Raxo
>
> "Bo Raxo" <invasio...@thepentagon.removethis.com> wrote in message
> news:l9Hic.11152$e4....@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> >
> > "Michael Snyder" <msn...@redhat.com> wrote in message
> > news:B%yic.7897$Fo4....@typhoon.sonic.net...
> > >
> > >
> >
> > Well, never existed yet. Every day brings a new possibility:
> >
> >
>
http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?click_id=13&art_id=qw1082379463407B263&set_id=1
>
> True, but as I have said for years now, if anyone ever does make a snuff
> film,
> it will be the fault of all the feminist hystericists who have kept the
> concept of
> the snuff film alive and in the public eye all these years.
>
>
If men pay money to see a woman killed, it's the fault of the feminists?
BWAAA HAAAA HAAA HAAAA HAAAA
I s'pose it's NOW that funds those "Faces of Death" videos, eh? Darn
feminists! They keep issues like domestic violence and rape in the
spotlight, and that just gives men the idea, right?
C'mon Michael, this is over the top even for you.
Scorpi...@attnospam.net
<msn...@redhat.com> wrote:
>
>To be perfectly clear, "snuff films" are a myth. They never existed.
Or so we thought until now.
--
"The most important thing is for us to find Osama bin Laden. It is our
number one priority and we will not rest until we find him."
~ George Bush Jr. 2001-09-13
"I don't know where he (bin Laden) is. I have no idea and I really
don't care. It's not that important. It's not our priority."
~ George Bush Jr. 2002-03-13
Michael Snyder
>
> "Michael Snyder" <msn...@redhat.com> wrote in message
> news:v8Tic.8067$Fo4.1...@typhoon.sonic.net...
> >
> > "Bo Raxo" <invasio...@thepentagon.removethis.com> wrote in message
> > news:l9Hic.11152$e4....@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> > >
> > > "Michael Snyder" <msn...@redhat.com> wrote in message
> > > news:B%yic.7897$Fo4....@typhoon.sonic.net...
> > > >
> > > > To be perfectly clear, "snuff films" are a myth. They never
existed.
> > > >
> > >
> > > Well, never existed yet. Every day brings a new possibility:
> > >
> > >
> >
>
http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?click_id=13&art_id=qw1082379463407B263&set_id=1
> >
> > True, but as I have said for years now, if anyone ever does make a snuff
> > film,
> > it will be the fault of all the feminist hystericists who have kept the
> > concept of
> > the snuff film alive and in the public eye all these years.
> >
> >
>
> If men pay money to see a woman killed, it's the fault of the feminists?
>
> BWAAA HAAAA HAAA HAAAA HAAAA
Point is, Bo, men DON'T pay money to see a woman killed.
I believe you yourself acknowledged this fact. Snuff is a myth.
But it is a myth kept alive by feminists. You will agree, surely, that
without their hysterical insistance that snuff is real (decades after it's
been proven that it is not), everybody would have forgotten all about
snuff.
So if anyone actually does get around to MAKING a snuff movie, it will
have only happened because SOMEONE planted the idea in his/her head.
He/she won't be doing it because there is a market for it -- there isn't.
Or
at least, no one can know whether there is or not. He/she may BELIEVE
there is a market for it -- BECAUSE FEMINISTS TOLD HIM/HER SO.
>
> I s'pose it's NOW that funds those "Faces of Death" videos, eh?
Non-sequitur and you know it. Those are not snuff. Nobody kills
anyone on purpose just to make those films, and they have nothing
to do with sex.
Michael Snyder
<Scorpi...@attNOSPAM.net> wrote in message
news:aaaq80lobn90b195v...@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 24 Apr 2004 19:13:37 GMT, "Michael Snyder"
> <msn...@redhat.com> wrote:
>
> >
> >To be perfectly clear, "snuff films" are a myth. They never existed.
>
> Or so we thought until now.
What'cha talkin' bout, Alex? There is no actual snuff film in the domain of
this thread. If you've heard about a real one, by all means share.
Otherwise,
"or so we think to this day, based on the best available evidence".
Nancy Rudins
>
> "Bo Raxo" <invasio...@thepentagon.removethis.com> wrote in message
> news:yGZic.9437$eZ5....@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>>
>> "Michael Snyder" <msn...@redhat.com> wrote in message
>> news:v8Tic.8067$Fo4.1...@typhoon.sonic.net...
>> >
>> > "Bo Raxo" <invasio...@thepentagon.removethis.com> wrote in message
>> > news:l9Hic.11152$e4....@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>> > >
>> > > "Michael Snyder" <msn...@redhat.com> wrote in message
>> > > news:B%yic.7897$Fo4....@typhoon.sonic.net...
>> > > >
>> > > > To be perfectly clear, "snuff films" are a myth. They never
> existed.
>> > > >
>> > >
>> > > Well, never existed yet. Every day brings a new possibility:
>> > >
>> > >
>> >
>>
>
http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?click_id=13&art_id=qw1082379463407B263&set_id=1
>> >
>> > True, but as I have said for years now, if anyone ever does make a
>> > snuff film,
>> > it will be the fault of all the feminist hystericists who have kept the
>> > concept of
>> > the snuff film alive and in the public eye all these years.
>> >
>> >
>>
>> If men pay money to see a woman killed, it's the fault of the feminists?
>>
>> BWAAA HAAAA HAAA HAAAA HAAAA
>
> Point is, Bo, men DON'T pay money to see a woman killed.
> I believe you yourself acknowledged this fact. Snuff is a myth.
>
> But it is a myth kept alive by feminists.
I searched for "snuff" on NOW's home page and only found a reference
to the Juarez murders:
"The motives for the murders are obscure. Theories include drug or organ
trafficking or the use of the women in the filming of so-called snuff
movies that feature the sexual assault and murder of women."
I'd hardly call that keeping a myth alive.
You will agree, surely, that
> without their hysterical insistance that snuff is real (decades after it's
> been proven that it is not), everybody would have forgotten all about
> snuff.
>
See above.
> So if anyone actually does get around to MAKING a snuff movie, it will
> have only happened because SOMEONE planted the idea in his/her head.
> He/she won't be doing it because there is a market for it -- there isn't.
> Or
> at least, no one can know whether there is or not. He/she may BELIEVE
> there is a market for it -- BECAUSE FEMINISTS TOLD HIM/HER SO.
>
>
They're not saying it nearly as loudly as you are.
Kind regards,
Nancy
--
Take a sad song and make it better (lennon/mccartney)
Nancy Rudins
nru...@ncsa.uiuc.edu
http://www.ncsa.uiuc.edu/People/nrudins
Glek
news:108qf23...@news.supernews.com:
The only people I ever hear talking about snuff films are Christian
fundamentalists who ascribe them to Satanists. One of the most quoted books
supporting this belief is "Satan's Underground", since proven fraudulent, by
Lauren Stratford AKA Lauren Willson. She is also the one who claimed to have
had her babies sacrified by her parents' Satanic group. Though this book has
been repudiated, there are many who still believe its allegations, and who
insist that snuff films are real because their existence fits into their
Satanic panic worldview. They are the same people who believe reading Harry
Potter will lead to demon possession and who believe in the dangers of
backward masking in heavy metal music.
If ever anyone made a snuff film it would most likely be a disaffected young
person who wants to take an extreme way to rebel against his church
upbringing, for it is these extremist churches that are keeping this belief
alive.
Michael Snyder
> I searched for "snuff" on NOW's home page and only found a reference
> to the Juarez murders:
>
> "The motives for the murders are obscure. Theories include drug or organ
> trafficking or the use of the women in the filming of so-called snuff
> movies that feature the sexual assault and murder of women."
BTW, none of the above has the remotest relationship with truth.
In particular, nothing that is happening to women in Juarez has
anything to do with organ trafficking or filming of snuff movies
("so-called" or otherwise).
On this more later.
Michael Snyder
I am happy that I and my cohort have finally squashed ONE feminist myth.
Not more than 2 years ago, I was still having to vigorously argue the
point with rabid feminists online. You may deny that feminism had
anything to do with the survival for 20-plus years of this myth if
you choose -- but I'm surprised at your choice of NOW as representative
of the feminist viewpoint.
Bo Raxo
>
> I am happy that I and my cohort have finally squashed ONE feminist myth.
> Not more than 2 years ago, I was still having to vigorously argue the
> point with rabid feminists online. You may deny that feminism had
> anything to do with the survival for 20-plus years of this myth if
> you choose -- but I'm surprised at your choice of NOW as representative
> of the feminist viewpoint.
>
>
How about accidentally killing the actress during a simulated snuff film?
You gotta admit, that's pretty darn close:
`Snuff video' linked to model
WHITEMARSH, Pa.-A Canadian porn actress found dead last month may have been
killed while shooting a film in which a killing is simulated during sex,
prosecutors say.
DNA clues and a scrawled note referring to the so-called ``snuff" video link
photographer Anthony Frederick to the death of Natel King, Montgomery County
District Attorney Bruce Castor told a preliminary hearing Friday.
The body of King, whose people were from Newfoundland but who lived in
Mississauga, was found in a ravine of Whitemarsh Township, Pa.
Frederick, 46, was ordered held for trial on first- and third-degree murder
charges. His assistant Jennifer Mitkus, 29, was held for trial on charges of
lying to authorities and hindering apprehension.
King, 23, disappeared Feb. 29 after posing for Fredericks in a bondage shoot
arranged over the Internet, authorities said. Nearly a month later, her
naked and slashed body was found, with bondage devices still on it.
Castor described the note, which police said they found in a camera bag at a
house that Fredericks shares with his wife and young son, as a contract
between a photographer and a subject. It enumerated types of videos or photo
shoots, Castor said, referring to the phrase "snuff vid," in which a killing
is simulated during sex.
Police also took several bloodstained items from Frederick's car and
apartment in Conshohocken, a suburb of Philadelphia; the DNA matched
Frederick and King, authorities said.
Frederick's Defender Daniel-Paul Alva said,"We don't know who killed her.
What we do know is that my client is in the unsavoury business of
Bo Raxo
>
> "Michael Snyder" <msn...@redhat.com> wrote in message
> news:c6k824$k6q$1...@stan.redhat.com...
> >
> > I am happy that I and my cohort have finally squashed ONE feminist myth.
> > Not more than 2 years ago, I was still having to vigorously argue the
> > point with rabid feminists online. You may deny that feminism had
> > anything to do with the survival for 20-plus years of this myth if
> > you choose -- but I'm surprised at your choice of NOW as representative
> > of the feminist viewpoint.
> >
> >
>
> How about accidentally killing the actress during a simulated snuff film?
>
> You gotta admit, that's pretty darn close:
>
>
http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1082931009092&call_pageid=968332188854&col=968705899037
>
> `Snuff video' linked to model
>
>
>
This link has a photo of the victim. There's no delicate way to put this:
not an attractive woman. Not that this makes her death any less tragic,
blah blah blah, so save it honey, I'm not in the mood.
Anyway, here's the pic link:
tinydancer
Ya know, I posted something about this awhile back. Most of the strippers
and whore's I've seen, one would take a second glance at without their
make-up on.
>
>
>
Nancy Rudins
I didn't say NOW is my choice of feminist viewpoint; I just said that
I searched their home page. You imply this is not an accurate choice.
Why would that be?
Michael Snyder
>
> "Michael Snyder" <msn...@redhat.com> wrote in message
> news:c6k824$k6q$1...@stan.redhat.com...
> >
> > I am happy that I and my cohort have finally squashed ONE feminist myth.
> > Not more than 2 years ago, I was still having to vigorously argue the
> > point with rabid feminists online. You may deny that feminism had
> > anything to do with the survival for 20-plus years of this myth if
> > you choose -- but I'm surprised at your choice of NOW as representative
> > of the feminist viewpoint.
> >
> >
>
> How about accidentally killing the actress during a simulated snuff film?
How about it?
> You gotta admit, that's pretty darn close:
Close to... making a snuff film? Well, it's the closest thing I've
heard of, but I'd still attach a great deal of significance to the
difference.
But Bo -- the idea of making a snuff vid wound have never occurred
to the guy if hysterical feminists had not kept the MEME of "snuff films"
alive over the last 30 years. He would never have thought there was
a *market* for snuff films, if feminists had not kept up the fiction that
there was. [And by the way, the fact that in fact no one has ever been
known to produce one suggests that there really isn't].
Finally, I note that the evidence suggesting that he DID try to make
one is extremely sketchy. They haven't found a film, Bo, only the
single phrase "snuff vid" scribbled on a piece of paper.
Michael Snyder
Hmmm. I'm not arguing with you, but I'm trying to figure out
what you mean when you say she's "not an attractive woman".
I went expecting ugly -- I don't see it. Surely not my type, I
would probably never ask her out, but I would certainly watch
a porn movie if she were starring in it... ?
Basically, she looks like a porn star. Someone who would be
regarded as sexy by, say, hollywood or the national enquirer.
Michael Snyder
"Nancy Rudins" <nru...@ncsa.uiuc.edu> wrote in message
news:108st3v...@news.supernews.com...
No, I think it IS an accurate choice -- I just did not expect that it would
be YOUR choice.
Nancy Rudins
Okay, got it. In fact, it is my choice. I'm not sure I want to know
what you thought my choice might be.
Kind regards,
Nancy
(
Michael Snyder
> Michael Snyder wrote:
>
>
>>"Nancy Rudins" <nru...@ncsa.uiuc.edu> wrote in message
>>news:108st3v...@news.supernews.com...
>>>I didn't say NOW is my choice of feminist viewpoint; I just said that
>>>I searched their home page. You imply this is not an accurate choice.
>>>Why would that be?
>>
>>No, I think it IS an accurate choice -- I just did not expect that it
>>would be YOUR choice.
>
>
> Okay, got it. In fact, it is my choice. I'm not sure I want to know
> what you thought my choice might be.
I don't think I've ever known what (who) your choice might be --
I just thought that you would dispute the idea that NOW was a
good example of mainstream feminism.
Sorry if I gave ya too much credit, there... ;-)
Scorpi...@attnospam.net
<msn...@redhat.com> wrote:
>
><Scorpi...@attNOSPAM.net> wrote in message
>news:aaaq80lobn90b195v...@4ax.com...
>> On Sat, 24 Apr 2004 19:13:37 GMT, "Michael Snyder"
>> <msn...@redhat.com> wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >To be perfectly clear, "snuff films" are a myth. They never
existed.
>>
>> Or so we thought until now.
>
>What'cha talkin' bout, Alex? There is no actual snuff film in the
domain of
>this thread.
Yes, there is.
If you've heard about a real one, by all means share.
>Otherwise,
>"or so we think to this day, based on the best available evidence".
I don't have a copy, but if I come across one, you'll be the second to
know.
Michael Snyder
I think you're fairly rare in that respect regardless of gender -- as
compared to, say, people with leukemia. I don't question that there
are *some* people who would pay to see a snuff film if one actually
existed -- but they are rare enough in either gender to make it unfair
to characterize a gender by reference to them. This is the usual use
of the "snuff film" myth -- to slander men, who are inferred to be
avid to see women being "snuffed".
Child
>
http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?click_id=13&art_id=qw1082379463407B263&set_id=1
>
> True, but as I have said for years now, if anyone ever does make a snuff
> film,
> it will be the fault of all the feminist hystericists who have kept the
> concept of
> the snuff film alive and in the public eye all these years.
Can you explain to me how the feminist hystericists have kept the myth
alive? Is this something that feminist hystericists lobby against?
Child
> > http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/nation/2528786
>
> Hmmm. I'm not arguing with you, but I'm trying to figure out
> what you mean when you say she's "not an attractive woman".
> I went expecting ugly -- I don't see it. Surely not my type, I
> would probably never ask her out, but I would certainly watch
> a porn movie if she were starring in it... ?
>
> Basically, she looks like a porn star. Someone who would be
> regarded as sexy by, say, hollywood or the national enquirer.
>
I think she looks tired and older than her years. Not my type either. If I
were to choose females in porn, they would not look like her.
Robert Lee
@corp.supernews.com:
> Can you explain to me how the feminist hystericists have kept the myth
> alive? Is this something that feminist hystericists lobby against?
Michael is, as usual, oversimplifying things. The myth of the snuff film
has been kept alive, in part, by some feminists, but conservative
Christians, social conservatives in general, horror writers and
filmmakers, movie geeks and general ignoramuses have all played a part,
as well as some law enforcement types.
And the myth has been tracked to its probable original source, and
certainly wasn't started by feminists. As a matter of fact, it started as
kind of a prank.
--
--Robert
"I did once get him to admit the beauty of Bembo," he adds, "a serif."
Bo Raxo
>
> "Bo Raxo" <invasio...@thepentagon.removethis.com> wrote in message
> news:fMojc.14427$e4....@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> >
this:
> > not an attractive woman. Not that this makes her death any less tragic,
> > blah blah blah, so save it honey, I'm not in the mood.
> >
> > Anyway, here's the pic link:
> >
> > http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/nation/2528786
>
> Hmmm. I'm not arguing with you, but I'm trying to figure out
> what you mean when you say she's "not an attractive woman".
> I went expecting ugly -- I don't see it. Surely not my type, I
> would probably never ask her out, but I would certainly watch
> a porn movie if she were starring in it... ?
>
I wouldn't watch anything with her in it. She looks pretty bad.
> Basically, she looks like a porn star. Someone who would be
> regarded as sexy by, say, hollywood or the national enquirer.
>
You gotta be kidding. Gina Ryder looks like a porn star. Michelle Wild is
a porn star that might be regarded as sexy by Hollywood standards. And
these are two typical examples, far from top-o-the-heap. There are porn
stars that I personally consider ugly but who also meet that generic
standard - Tabitha Stevens, say, or Sylvia Saint.
If you think this chick is remotely porn-quality, go rent a few volumes of
North Pole, or 110% Natural, or Hot Girls in the City. This chick could
never make it in the SoCal porn business, I doubt Jim South would even put
her in the World Modelling book (Jim South and World Modelling is the
central source for booking new talent).
Bo Raxo
limegreen
Can you please let people choose their own words, Michael? It's
bothersome when you try to control what other people say.
I don't think it's necessarily prevalent or common, but why is it such
a stretch of the imagination to think people would film an actual
rape/murder? Especially if there is profit involved, I don't see it as
much of a stretch. I mean we often hear of stupid, greedy people who
film their crimes. Isn't this just an extension of that?
Michael Snyder
> "Child" <da...@alaskaSPAMFREE.com> wrote in news:108tgsfm633jq02
> @corp.supernews.com:
>
>
>>Can you explain to me how the feminist hystericists have kept the myth
>>alive? Is this something that feminist hystericists lobby against?
>
>
> Michael is, as usual, oversimplifying things. The myth of the snuff film
> has been kept alive, in part, by some feminists, but conservative
> Christians, social conservatives in general, horror writers and
> filmmakers, movie geeks and general ignoramuses have all played a part,
> as well as some law enforcement types.
>
> And the myth has been tracked to its probable original source, and
> certainly wasn't started by feminists. As a matter of fact, it started as
> kind of a prank.
>
Err, it started as a real film called "Snuff", which was a fake
but advertised as if it were real. The film makers have been
quoted as saying that they really really wished they had used
better judgement...
Robert Lee
@stan.redhat.com:
> Err, it started as a real film called "Snuff", which was a fake
> but advertised as if it were real. The film makers have been
> quoted as saying that they really really wished they had used
> better judgement...
Nope. Snuff started out as a pretty pedestrian b-movie based on the
Manson murders. When the "snuff movie" rumors broke surrounding Manson,
right around the time the movie was due to be released, they hastily shot
a "real murder" scene that doesn't particularly fit the rest of the film,
inserted it, retitled the film and marketed it as a movie with a real
death in it. The marketing of that movie owes more to the marketing of
the "Mondo" films of the sixties than it does anything else, and I've
never read anything by anyone involved indicating that they were sorry
for it. (If they were sorry for anything, I think they got screwed out of
the massive profits the movie ended up making and continues to make to
this day, and that was probably it.)
The earliest emergence point found yet for the myth of snuff films, as I
said earlier, has to do with the Manson Family. One of the members of the
notorious sixties prankster band The Fuggs (who did that song "Boobs-a-
lot" you may have heard on Doctor Demento, back in the day) wrote a book
partly to capitalize on the hysteria, partly as a big joke, that's pretty
much all lies about how he allegedly was tight with the Family. In that
book, he claimed that Manson brought girls from out to the Spahn Ranch,
drugged them, killed them on camera and sold the film to rich sickies
back down in LA.
And that's where it all started. Prior to the early seventies, Manson and
that book, the notion of an audience of perverts who want to see filmed
deaths and an industry to service them doesn't exist anywhere. And the
author of the book was called as a witness and admitted he'd made up the
stuff about murder movies.
This is all laid out in some detail in this book:
which is a pretty good history of death on film, real and simulated,
anyway, and I highly recommend it.
Michael Snyder
"Child" <da...@alaskaSPAMFREE.com> wrote in message
news:108th2c...@corp.supernews.com...
Yeah? What would they look like?
Child
lets see....i am kind of out of date when it comes to porn stars, so I will
just show you some women i think are sexy and who should be in porn
i love shalom harlow
http://www.celebritypictures.com/Pictures/ShalomHarlow/shalom14.jpg
this woman is sexy
http://www.celebritypictures.com/Pictures/EstherCanadas/esther6.jpg
Bo Raxo
"Child" <be...@NOT-SO-bad-dawgs-in-ak.com> wrote in message
news:108umql...@corp.supernews.com...
>
> "Michael Snyder" <msn...@redhat.com> wrote in message
> news:xkHjc.8493$Fo4.1...@typhoon.sonic.net...
> >
> > "Child" <da...@alaskaSPAMFREE.com> wrote in message
> > news:108th2c...@corp.supernews.com...
> > >
> > I
> > > were to choose females in porn, they would not look like her.
> >
> > Yeah? What would they look like?
> >
Ohhh, good question!
> >
>
> lets see....i am kind of out of date when it comes to porn stars, so I
will
> just show you some women i think are sexy and who should be in porn
> i love shalom harlow
> http://www.celebritypictures.com/Pictures/ShalomHarlow/shalom14.jpg
>
She looks like about half the girls you see in European porn. Which is a
good thing, in my book, I'm just saying there are a zillion
fashion-model-with-colored-contacts girls that look like this in porn, many
with better (and all natural) bodies.
> this woman is sexy
> http://www.celebritypictures.com/Pictures/EstherCanadas/esther6.jpg
>
Ewww, yuck, quite unattractive, but she looks like many girls in the
Nineteen series, or perhaps Hustler's Barely Legal. A look that's a dime a
dozen, including the ludicrously oversized lips.
Alex
"Child" <be...@NOT-SO-bad-dawgs-in-ak.com> schreef in bericht
news:108umql...@corp.supernews.com...
Good luck getting those women to do pornos. They'd end up NOT doing
sex or guys and would get the heck promoted out of them (Chasey Lain,
Janine Lindemulder come to mind).
Alex
Child
> > lets see....i am kind of out of date when it comes to porn stars, so I
> will
> > just show you some women i think are sexy and who should be in porn
> > i love shalom harlow
> > http://www.celebritypictures.com/Pictures/ShalomHarlow/shalom14.jpg
> >
>
> She looks like about half the girls you see in European porn. Which is a
> good thing, in my book, I'm just saying there are a zillion
> fashion-model-with-colored-contacts girls that look like this in porn,
many
> with better (and all natural) bodies.
Yes, I prefer non-american good looks - something slightly more exotic and I
like real boobs.
> > this woman is sexy
> > http://www.celebritypictures.com/Pictures/EstherCanadas/esther6.jpg
> >
>
> Ewww, yuck, quite unattractive, but she looks like many girls in the
> Nineteen series, or perhaps Hustler's Barely Legal. A look that's a dime
a
> dozen, including the ludicrously oversized lips.
>
Hey, if we all had the same taste in women, we would all be dating the same
ones. Hey, wait a minute... I don't date women.