Re: Defense Attorney: Hasan Won't Plead Guilty, May Use Insanity Defense
edi...@netpath.net
defendant who doesn't know right from wrong as a result of mental
illness - in other words, a "flake" like John Hinckley who ALREADY was
under psychiatric treatment for serious mental illness. It's going to
be near-impossible to successfully play that game when the defendant
himself is a shrink, an Army major, and has some degree of normality.
http://www.redstate.com/erick/2009/08/04/where-is-your-townhall/ is
the all-states, continually-updated calendar of "town halls."
http://www.Internet-Gun-Show.com - your source for hard-to-find stuff!
Michael Snyder
> In Message-ID:<comadrejoagua-D15...@news.giganews.com> posted on
> Sun, 22 Nov 2009 21:49:21 -0800, comadrejo wrote: Begin
>
>> According to Galligan, Hasan is paralyzed, is incontinent and "in severe
>> pain."
>> "He is an individual in need of constant medical attention," Galligan
>> said. "He has no sensation from his chest down."
>
> Maybe I'm misinterpreting those two seemingly contradictory statements,
> but isn't a bit of a paradox to claim "no sensation" yet "in severe pain"?
Not necessarily. A person who has lost a limb can by definition have
no sensation from that limb, and yet may suffer "phentom pain".
Or he may just be in extreme pain from the chest up!
MaryL
"comadrejo" <comadr...@mac.com> wrote in message
news:comadrejoagua-D15...@news.giganews.com...
> http://tinyurl.com/ycjrbx6
>
> Defense Attorney: Hasan Won't Plead Guilty, May Use Insanity Defense
> Retired Col. John Galligan Says Accused Fort Hood Shooter Is Paralyzed
> From Chest Down and in Severe Pain
> By MARK SCHONE
> Nov. 22, 2009--
>
> The defense attorney for accused his client will probably plead not
> guilty and that an insanity defense is possible.
> "I anticipate that the plea will be not guilty," said defense attorney
> John Galligan.
> Asked if he was considering an insanity plea for his client, who faces
> 13 counts of premeditated murder, Galligan said, "I'm fairly confident
> that that's going to have to at least be examined. And that's
> problematic. But we haven't reached that stage yet."
> Galligan said he has also learned that his client, who will be tried in
> a military court, may face additional charges for the Nov. 5 shooting
> spree in Fort Hood, Texas. He said he was alerted to the new charges
> during a pre-trial confinement hearing before a military magistrate held
> in Hasan's San Antonio hospital room Saturday.
> After the hearing at the Brooke Army Medical Center Saturday, Galligan
> said his client is paralyzed from the chest down and is a not a flight
> risk. The military magistrate ruled that Hasan will stay at Brooke Army
> Medical Center for now, but the military has the option of moving him to
> another medical facility or to jail.
> According to Galligan, Hasan is paralyzed, is incontinent and "in severe
> pain."
> "He is an individual in need of constant medical attention," Galligan
> said. "He has no sensation from his chest down."
>
When I first heard that Hasan is paralyzed and in constant pain, my reaction
was that he may be suffering the worst punishment that could possibly be
meted out. Ironically, paralysis may inflict far worse punishment to
someone like him than anything the justice system can do.
MaryL
Poe
> In Message-ID:<comadrejoagua-D15...@news.giganews.com> posted on
> Sun, 22 Nov 2009 21:49:21 -0800, comadrejo wrote: Begin
>
>> pain."
>> "He is an individual in need of constant medical attention," Galligan
>> said. "He has no sensation from his chest down."
>
> but isn't a bit of a paradox to claim "no sensation" yet "in severe pain"?
Maybe he has a migraine, or soreness in his arms after firing off all
those rounds.
Linda Griffith
news:4b0a425c...@bart.spawar.mil...
> In Message-ID:<4b0a3876$0$2036$742e...@news.sonic.net> posted on Sun, 22
> Nov
> 2009 23:23:34 -0800, Michael Snyder wrote: Begin
>
>>Or he may just be in extreme pain from the chest up!
>
> or whatever flat out lying is referred to
> in politically correct terminology.
I agree with you, Bart, and *my* first thought was that paralysis and "no
sensation" would obviate pain. Just being tacky, but his desire for a
girlfriend may be less important to him now. Or more important, if he just
wants a friend. Maybe his severe pain is in his conscience? Nah, I doubt
it.
Linda (and yes, I do often talk to myself.)
M
wrote:
> "comadrejo" <comadrejoa...@mac.com> wrote in message
Indeed. It seems to me like LWOPP could be a lot worse for him than
execution.
Mick
earthage
An earlier article said he had extreme pain in his hands.
Michael Snyder
Aha! Guilt!
Pneuma
wrote:
>
> I don't know what will be a good defense for Hasan, but the insanity
>defense isn't going to work. He did enough before and during the
>shooting to show he was quite cognizant of his actions... His fellow
>doctors can testify as eyewitness and expert witnesses on his behavior.
>
> The only reason, in my opinion to use an insanity defense is to put
>Hasan's superiors and the Army Medical Services on trial. Anything that
>can focus attention away from Hasan is a successful defense, before he
>is found guilty and given the death penalty.
Well with so many witnesses with good reputations able to testify that is
his only defense. There have been media reports that someone asked if he
was psychotic, but most likely in lay man terms and just because someone
has unique religious beliefs doesn't make them psychotic.
If he is hearing voices or seeing things that is a sure sign of
psychosis. If the accused has medical records documenting the fact that he
saw or heard things that aren't there it is easier to convince a jury. But
walking into a court room the day after a massacre and claiming he must be
crazy rarely works.
--
Pneuma
Marianna
>
> >According to Galligan, Hasan is paralyzed, is incontinent and "in severe
> >pain."
> >"He is an individual in need of constant medical attention," Galligan
> >said. "He has no sensation from his chest down."
bart wrote:
> Maybe I'm misinterpreting those two seemingly contradictory statements,
> but isn't a bit of a paradox to claim "no sensation" yet "in severe pain"?
It depends on how severe the paralysis is. Just because he cannot move
his extremities does not mean he doesn't feel pain. Quadriplegics
often are plagued by muscle spasms, which can be quite nasty- nastier
for them because they can't stretch out a limb to relieve the spasm
like you and I can. The lack of movement contributes to muscle
contracture, which makes the spasms worse. Many of them stay on drugs
like Baclofen or Soma or Valium to help with this, with varying
results.
Marianna
Linda Griffith
> He was showing signs of making a conscious decision in starting his
> mass killing. He wasn't psychotic. He has some serious behavioral
> problems that were apparent for some time, but he wasn't delusional,
> have had serious delusions, any disconnect from reality. His problems
> were behavioral, not stemming from a full blown serious mental illness.
>
> He was an embittered, frustrated projecting loner and coward, like many
> other mass killers.
>
> An Insanity defense per se, isn't going to work. I guess I would do is
> some sort of "proxy defense" in which put the Army Medical Services on
> trial, or introduced in evidence the huge caseloads for US Army
> psychiatrists make them have diminished capacity for reasoning, or
> something like that.
>
> However, it doesn't really matter, Hassan is going to be executed. The
> prosecution just needs to pick up the 5.7mm casings at the crime scene
> and match them to Hasan's gun. Case proven, case closed.
You may be right, comadrejo; and I don't know about psychology or the
Islamic religion. It may be that Hasan will be held to a greater and
different responsibility than your ordinary white American person. I hope
that some "amurcan" is paying attention and making sure that we don't have a
different set of standards, based on color, traditions, or nationality.
Linda
Poe
I couldn't agree more. It would be criminal to allow him to be excused
or held to a different set of standards simply because he is in a
protected class or group.
Linda Griffith
news:7n0lumF...@mid.individual.net...
> Linda Griffith wrote:
>> You may be right, comadrejo; and I don't know about psychology or the
>> Islamic religion. It may be that Hasan will be held to a greater and
>> different responsibility than your ordinary white American person. I
>> hope that some "amurcan" is paying attention and making sure that we
>> don't have a different set of standards, based on color, traditions, or
>> nationality.
>>
>> Linda
>
>
> I couldn't agree more. It would be criminal to allow him to be excused or
> held to a different set of standards simply because he is in a protected
> class or group.
I'm glad that you agree with me, Poe; but I'm thinking that we're coming
from different points of view. I'm hoping that Hasan won't be held to a
different standard because he's of a different tradition or religion. He is
an American citizen, like the rest of us. I hope he won't be held to a
different standard because his skin is darker or because he claims to be
Muslim. My d-i-l had an OB-GYN whose last name was "Hasan," and she
delivered my grandchild professionally. I don't know if her maiden name was
Hasan, or if she married into it. Regardless, I have no reason to believe
that the female doctor was "Islamic" or "Muslim". Even if she were, I
wouldn't hold that against her, because she did her job well and she didn't
let her religion negatively influence her job...if that's what people are
worried about..
Linda
Kris Baker
"Linda Griffith" <grif...@charter.net> wrote in message
news:OBEOm.11044$cX4....@newsfe10.iad...
Oh, there's certain to be -- and obviously already is.
Has **anyone** heard an uproaric cry for the execution of Army
Sgt John M. Russell, who killed FIVE of his fellow soldiers (and
wounded three more) just last May, in Iraq?
I can assure you that you'll never be called a "jihadist apologist"
if you discuss issues that may have affected Russell's psyche or
behavior. But Russell's a "rill Amurcan" from Texas. Most likely
not a Muslim.
http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2009/WORLD/meast/05/12/iraq.soldiers.killed/art.soldier.cnn.jpgKrishttp://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/05/11/AR2009051103143.htmleNThere's certain to be. After all, look at the publicity about this versusthe
Poe
Exactly. He should not be held to a higher or lower standard. He should
be held to the same standard, accountable for the crimes as defined by
our laws, same as anyone, and not handled differently because of status,
favorable of unfavorable. I'd ask people to apply the "fairness" test to
someone else they find repugnant - say, a white supremest. People need
to be treated the same regardless (mental illness and such notwithstanding).
Wrt jihad threats, though - it is the latest, and a very potent threat,
and it is my opinion that's where Husan was coming from. DHS, retards
that they are, and our LE and military need to figure out how to profile
and protect us against new threats. Call it something other than
profiling if you want, but patterns exist, and need to be identified
before deadly massacres if possible. I am very disappointed our military
saw things that would make anyone's skin crawl, and did nothing. Some of
the negigent involved have blood on their hands IMO.
To wrap up, I have not problem with Muslims or the Islamic faith. In
fact, I believe someone recent, like Ayatollah Komenie or one or them,
encouraged people to perform these weird acts of personal sacrifice and
jihad, where the Koran itself prohibits suicide. It's really sad, it
has hijacked (no pun) the reputation of the entire religion from what I
can tell, in a lot of people's eyes.
Linda Griffith
> Exactly. He should not be held to a higher or lower standard. He should be
> held to the same standard, accountable for the crimes as defined by our
> laws, same as anyone, and not handled differently because of status,
> favorable of unfavorable. I'd ask people to apply the "fairness" test to
> someone else they find repugnant - say, a white supremest. People need to
> be treated the same regardless (mental illness and such notwithstanding).
>
> Wrt jihad threats, though - it is the latest, and a very potent threat,
> and it is my opinion that's where Husan was coming from. DHS, retards that
> they are, and our LE and military need to figure out how to profile and
> protect us against new threats. Call it something other than profiling if
> you want, but patterns exist, and need to be identified before deadly
> massacres if possible. I am very disappointed our military saw things that
> would make anyone's skin crawl, and did nothing. Some of the negigent
> involved have blood on their hands IMO.
>
> To wrap up, I have not problem with Muslims or the Islamic faith. In fact,
> I believe someone recent, like Ayatollah Komenie or one or them,
> encouraged people to perform these weird acts of personal sacrifice and
> jihad, where the Koran itself prohibits suicide. It's really sad, it has
> hijacked (no pun) the reputation of the entire religion from what I can
> tell, in a lot of people's eyes.
Good points all. But how could our government have profiled those like
Nidal Malik Hasan, Timothy McVeigh, Charles Whitman, and George Hennard, and
protected us all from their terrorist attacks? It seems to me that some
people are oh, so eager to call Hasan a terrorist, but to forget about the
McVeighs, the Whitmans, and the Hennards of our daily life.
Linda
Poe
They should be better at recognizing patterns. Some truly are one-offs,
a brain tumor, a pimply rejects in HS, or whatever. Others give off
signals that are ignored (oh wait - signs by the pimply rejects in
Colmbine were ignored, too). Hasan gave off huge signals that were
ignored. Mass killers don't always give off signals but sometimes they
do. How about the 3 plots that were broken up before they happened a few
months ago in TX, CO and NY? They gave off signals, and as a result LE,
FBI or whatever DID put together the signals and stopped the attacks. In
the case of Ft. Hood, they neglected to do so, emphasis on the word
NEGLECT.
I can't think of another time in my life I have been this disappointed
in our military. I usually give tons of time and money to causes
stemming from our military, but I am taking a time out for a while.
M
>
> Osama bin Laden wears clothes and headwear to show religious piety,
> but it is more of political stunt than actual reality. He is/was a rich
> kid from Saudi Arabia, who father is originally from Yemen. He isn't a
> religious leader, and his leadership clique were more from the
> professional classes like medicine and engineering than religious
> leaders. He also relies on the tribal loyalties that come from Yemeni
> society than anything to do with Islam for example.
1) It is how they dress in yemen.
2) Being from the professional/wealthy class precludes religion?
3) Tribal loyalties - like those of the Saud family bin Laden
relatives at least by marriage, most likely by blood at this point?
4) I have seen no evidence that he was ever pampered in the way that
would cause one to think of him as a "Rich kid" although his family
was wealthy when he was a child.
You are oversimplifying here. Bin Laden was in afghanistan as part
of the resistance against the Soviet Union. He did play a role in
combat. He supposedly aquitted himself wellas one of Reagen's "Freedom
Fighters." So did his senior followers. Many of them were also in
Bosnia and participated in combat there.
It is foolish and dangerous to underestimate one's enemies. "Mission
accomplished."
Mick