Relatives Describe Hideous Abuse
Chocolic
Chocolic
---------------------------------
Relative describes 'hideous' abuse
The children of Marilyn and Richard Kananen Sr. suffered "hideous and
humiliating" abuse at the hands of their father in the years before his
disappearance, according to a close relative.
As investigators dug up Marilyn Kananen's body last week in the back yard
of the east Orange County house where her son and daughter lived, they also
discovered bones beneath the garage of Marilyn's nearby home that they
think belong to her husband, who vanished 15 years ago.
In an e-mail interview from her home in Ireland, Marilyn Kananen's youngest
sister, Gerri C. Jackson, said Richard Sr. would tie up his children and
force them to sit or kneel for long periods of time for misbehaving. At one
point when the family lived in Maine, Jackson said, Richard Jr. complained
that his father attached a dog collar and leash to his neck and tied him up
outside the dog house for days. Richard Jr. is under suicide watch at an
area hospital after being charged last week with killing his mother.
"The abuses each one of their children suffered -- but especially Richard
Jr., as he is 10 years older than his closest sibling -- were hideous and
humiliating," said Jackson, who also has spoken with Orange County
investigators.
Authorities broke the case after a nephew informed them that Richard Jr.
told the boy he killed his abusive father and hated his mother for failing
to protect him.
Richard Jr., 47, was admitted to Orlando Regional Medical Center on Friday
because deputies thought he might be suicidal. His sister, Stacey Kananen,
34, also remains hospitalized.
After they were questioned by deputies about their mother's disappearance,
Richard Jr. and Stacey were found in a storage unit with a car engine
running. The unit is off Hoffner Road, not far from the home the siblings
shared.
Investigators have said Richard Jr. and Stacey have "acknowledged some
involvement" in their parents' deaths, but only the brother has been
charged with first-degree murder in the slaying of their mother.
A memorial service for Marilyn Kananen, 65, is scheduled for 6:30 p.m.
today, said her brother Lawrence J. Regan Jr.
Until they settled in Florida, Richard and Marilyn Kananen lived a vagabond
existence, moving from state to state with their children, often packing up
in the middle of the night, Jackson said. The Kananens lived in Maine,
Massachusetts, Minnesota, New Mexico, Alabama, Wisconsin, California,
Arizona and Oklahoma before moving to Florida, Jackson said.
Marilyn Kananen's brother Regan, 69, also said family members were unsure
of where they were and what they were doing.
"Nobody really knew where they were half the time," Regan said.
The family's life was marred by Richard Kananen Sr.'s drinking binges and
threats of violence. Regan last saw Richard Kananen Sr. at his house in
Maine. Kananen started drinking, he said, then pulled a gun and held it to
Regan's head.
Kananen put the gun down and started laughing, Regan said.
"That was it for me," he said. "Believe me, we left."
Regan said his side of the family so feared Richard Sr. that they would not
have attended the wedding of the Kananens' daughter in 1988 if her father
hadn't disappeared.
In the arrest affidavit, the daughter, Cheryl Bracken, told police that
Richard Jr. called her up and said he had a present for her two weeks
before her wedding.
Dad's "gone," she recalls him saying. When she asked what he meant, her
brother said, "Trust me, he won't be coming back," according to the arrest
affidavit.
A year later, with Richard Sr. out of the picture, Marilyn's parents felt
safe enough to move to Florida to be close to their daughter.
"My family definitely would not have gone to Florida if Richard had been
there. My mother and father, believe me, would never have come down if
Richard was in Florida or even if they thought he would be in Florida,"
Regan said.
Jackson characterized Richard and Marilyn Kananen as a couple who "moved
hither and yon scamming and very often like thieves in the night would pack
up and move if they thought someone was on to them."
Orange County sheriff's Detective Mark Hussey, however, said he could find
no evidence of a criminal record for the couple, citing only a June 1987
arrest of Richard Kananen Sr. for disorderly conduct.
In that incident, a neighbor complained that Richard Kananen Sr. yelled at
him and threatened to kill him.
A deputy sheriff who visited the Kananen home twice that day said the
father screamed at him and used "foul language" in demanding that the
deputy leave his property.
The deputy's report listed Kananen's wife and son as victims as well.
Richard Sr. was then booked into the Orange County Jail on charges of
breach of peace and disorderly conduct. The disposition of the case
couldn't be determined.
Attempts by Marilyn Kananen's family members to persuade her to leave her
husband were futile, Jackson said.
"We have been concerned and prayerful all these years by the sick
relationship that Marilyn chose to stay in," said Jackson, 55. "There was
relief when we heard Richard was gone, and there were many a question and
many a lie as a response. Lies became reality and their life."
When Jackson questioned her sister about the disappearance of Richard
Kananen Sr. 15 years ago, she was told that Kananen had gone on a drunken,
gun-wielding rampage, was arrested and was ordered to leave Florida and
never return.
Marilyn Kananen told neighbors her husband had moved back to Maine. Others
were told the couple had divorced.
Not believing her sister, Jackson said she searched court records and could
find no evidence of a divorce or arrest of Richard Kananen Sr. When Jackson
found that Marilyn Kananen was still receiving her missing husband's Social
Security disability checks, she was told by her sister that the checks were
being forwarded to Richard. The Social Security Administration contends
that Marilyn Kananen cashed about $100,000 worth of her husband's
disability checks, according to her son's arrest affidavit.
"I questioned many things she said and did. I often challenged her and
found her contradicting herself, which she would deny," Jackson said. "Over
the last five or so years I had a very deep uneasiness about her. I did not
trust her at all."
Suicide notes left behind by Richard Kananen Jr. shortly before his arrest
on Dec. 22 suggest that the killing of his mother was motivated by the
$250,000 estate left behind by Marilyn Kananen's father, Lawrence J. Regan
Sr., who died in 2002. Jackson said her father's will stated that the money
would be divided among his four children.
The day after his mother disappeared in September, Richard Kananen Jr.
appeared to have been in the process of adopting his father's identity,
according to his arrest affidavit. Richard Kananen Jr. had his drivers
license changed to his mother's address and had dropped the Jr. from his
name. He also had boasted to a neighbor that he could access his mother's
bank accounts by dropping the Jr. from his name.
Jackson, who moved to Ireland in 2002 to work in social services, said she
is devastated by the tragedy.
"I am horrified by the entire situation," she said. "Who in their life
would suspect murder of a sibling, nonetheless by their own?"
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/orange/orl-locbadfamily30123003dec30,1,7174558.story?coll=orl-news-headlines
Bo Raxo
"Chocolic" <chatt...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:9%PIb.573915$0v4.23...@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> ---------------------------------
> Relative describes 'hideous' abuse
>
> The children of Marilyn and Richard Kananen Sr. suffered "hideous and
> humiliating" abuse at the hands of their father in the years before his
> disappearance, according to a close relative.
>
> In an e-mail interview from her home in Ireland, Marilyn Kananen's
youngest
> sister, Gerri C. Jackson, said Richard Sr. would tie up his children and
> force them to sit or kneel for long periods of time for misbehaving. At
one
> point when the family lived in Maine, Jackson said, Richard Jr. complained
> that his father attached a dog collar and leash to his neck and tied him
up
> outside the dog house for days.
Well, this is reprehensible behavior, but "hideous abuse"? Severe beatings
and rapes are hideous abuse. Compared to that, being made to sit or kneel or
being tied up outside for days is a heck of a lot less serious.
If I was on a jury, and the defense cited this stuff as evidence of abuse
serious enough to drive someone to murder, I'd laugh all the way to the jury
room, and then vote guilty.
Child
"Bo Raxo" <invasio...@thepentagon.removethis.com> wrote in message
news:UO9Jb.30245$Pg1....@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>
> "Chocolic" <chatt...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:9%PIb.573915$0v4.23...@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> > ---------------------------------
> > Relative describes 'hideous' abuse
> >
> > The children of Marilyn and Richard Kananen Sr. suffered "hideous and
> > humiliating" abuse at the hands of their father in the years before his
> > disappearance, according to a close relative.
> >
> <snip>
> > In an e-mail interview from her home in Ireland, Marilyn Kananen's
> youngest
> > sister, Gerri C. Jackson, said Richard Sr. would tie up his children and
> > force them to sit or kneel for long periods of time for misbehaving. At
> one
> > point when the family lived in Maine, Jackson said, Richard Jr.
complained
> > that his father attached a dog collar and leash to his neck and tied him
> up
> > outside the dog house for days.
> <snip>
>
> Well, this is reprehensible behavior, but "hideous abuse"? Severe
beatings
> and rapes are hideous abuse. Compared to that, being made to sit or kneel
or
> being tied up outside for days is a heck of a lot less serious.
I think its pretty hideous abuse. It could be as dire as a rape or a
beating:
It depends on the weather, and whether the kid had food and water.
Cate
@corp.supernews.com:
> I think its pretty hideous abuse. It could be as dire as a rape or a
> beating:
> It depends on the weather, and whether the kid had food and water.
Yes, and it also depends on the manner in which this 'punishment' was
handed down. Many abuse victims will tell you the worst part of what they
went through was the emotional manipulation and abuse that accompanied the
physical abuse.
I'd rather have a beating than be tied up outside for 3 days, thinking no
one would ever come to my aid, and that I might as well disappear.
Cate
Mke
"Chocolic" <chatt...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:9%PIb.573915$0v4.23...@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
was sexually abusive as well. I remember a similar story I read
about a family like this, although the book title escapes me.
Mke
Siblings suspects in murders of parents 15 years apart
MIKE SCHNEIDER
Associated Press
ORLANDO, Fla. - Less than half a mile separated the neat, one-story homes of
Marilyn Kananen and her adult son and daughter, the former festooned with
American flag signs and the latter with a yard filled with plastic Nativity
figures and a Santa Claus.
At each, detectives found the remains of two bodies Monday night. Under the
garage floor of Marilyn Kananen's home, detectives uncovered what they
believe are the remains of her abusive husband, who had been missing for a
decade and a half.
In the back yard of her children's home a short time later, detectives found
what they believe to be the remains of 65-year-old Marilyn Kananen. She was
reported missing in September, exactly 15 years to the day her husband
disappeared.
Two houses. Two bodies. Two adult children under suspicion.
"Needless to say this is a very bizarre case," Orange County Sheriff Kevin
Beary said Tuesday at a news conference.
The siblings attempted suicide Monday by running a car in a closed storage
unit after being questioned by detectives, police said. Investigators who
had been surveilling them after the interviews stopped their suicide
attempt.
A judge on Tuesday denied bond for Richard Kananen Jr., 47, a handyman
charged with first degree murder in the death of his mother. The judge also
said Kananen qualifies to have the public defender's office handle his
defense.
Kananen's 37-year-old sister, Stacey, a 10-year Walt Disney World employee,
was in a hospital Tuesday, and detectives planned to question her when she
is released.
Autopsy reports on the uncovered bodies weren't complete.
"We still have a lot of the investigation to do to determine whether or not
if any additional people will be charged in this case and also whether
charges will be filed in the second murder," said Sgt. John Allen, a
homicide investigator with the sheriff's office.
Detectives wouldn't give a motive, but said Richard Kananen Jr. had siphoned
$60,000 from his mother's trust fund into his own bank account.
Another daughter, Cheryl Bracken, reported Marilyn Kananen missing in
September, a day after she failed to show up for her job as a secretary at
an aviation firm. Bracken told authorities it was unlike her mother to miss
work and that she was worried her mother might have been forcibly taken by
her missing father. Her father had threatened to return to the family and
kill or harm them, Bracken told authorities in her mother's missing person
report.
Her father, Bracken said, had a history of committing verbal, physical and
sexual abuse, which included breaking Marilyn Bracken's arm when she was
pregnant at age 17 and kicking his wife in the head and stomach.
"Mrs. Bracken said their father often used knives or a gun to create fear
and rule the home," the report said.
A man at Bracken's house, less than two miles from her mother's home, told a
reporter to leave the property.
Detectives also wouldn't say if, based on their interviews with her
children, Marilyn Kananen knew that a body was buried in her garage. No one
reported the father, Richard Kananen, missing when he disappeared in 1988.
Marilyn Kananen told her neighbor, Stephen Rucinski, that he had returned to
his home state of Maine.
"He would get drunk all the time," Rucinksi said of the father. "He would
get mean and nasty."
After Marilyn Kananen disappeared, her son told Betty Kelley, a neighbor,
that his mother had left the area because she was worried about being caught
for illegally drawing on her husband's Social Security.
"I didn't have any reason not to believe him," Kelley said.
The children also placed a sign with fliers in Marilyn Kananen's yard asking
for help in finding her. Giovanni Paladino, a neighbor who lives across the
street, found that odd.
"Like it was a missing dog," Paladino said. "People don't usually do that
with people. With pets, maybe."
http://www.macon.com/mld/tallahassee/7558888.htm
Scorpi...@attnospam.net
You surprise me Bo. Didn't another relative state Sr. held a gun to
his head? I have no doubt that these two people suffered years and
years of serious abuse at the hands of their father. They are likely
damaged in ways you and I can't even imagine.
--
Like a game of pick up stick played by fucking lunatics
nimue
Actually, the sitting/kneeling punishment is one that was used in Japanese
and Vietnamese POW camps. It is VERY painful, and a very serious form of
abuse. I have to say, if I heard this evidence I would not laugh.
--
nimue
"...but I want you to know I did save you... not when it counted of
course, but after that. Every night after that...every night I save
you." Spike to Buffy After Life
Gosh, when Spike says heartfelt, sincere things like that -- things
straight from his full heart, well, it just makes you wonder why women
are crazy about him, doesn't it?
Messalina
According to my Grandmother, my great grandfather would punish her
brothers by forcing them to kneel on uncooked beans and recite their
rosaries over and over. Sounds fairly mild unless you really think
about it.
Mez
Bo Raxo
<Scorpi...@attNOSPAM.net> wrote in message
news:cavbvvodq1hgj8lq3...@4ax.com...
Well, I've never had a gun held to my head (pointed at me, but not held to
the head). I've never been raped.
But using my imagination, if I had to choose one, it's no contest.
nimue
I know people that happened to. It's horribly painful and causes disgusting
bruising as well.
>
> Mez
PScan16416
>up
>> outside the dog house for days.
><snip>
>
>Well, this is reprehensible behavior, but "hideous abuse"? Severe beatings
>and rapes are hideous abuse. Compared to that, being made to sit or kneel or
>being tied up outside for days is a heck of a lot less serious.
>
>If I was on a jury, and the defense cited this stuff as evidence of abuse
>serious enough to drive someone to murder, I'd laugh all the way to the jury
>room, and then vote guilty.
>
Regardless of the past abuses as childred, I think the two killings were all
about the money and would disregard the abuse angle if I was on the jury.
Messalina
I should also point out, tho, that great gramps was schizo. Years
after he died someone translated his bookkeeping logs, and intespered
with his accounting records were ruminations about how his wife was
cheating on him and planning to murder him. Great gran was a sweet
little old lady who baked constantly, and more to the point, never
learned to speak English. Quite a handicap for plotting.
Mez
nimue
I think the killings were about both money and abuse. The abuse played a
big role in their decision-making; I am quite sure about that.
otter
sec...@duelingoak.com wrote on 1/2/04 5:43 PM:
My Grandfather used to hold my Father down on the floor with his foot on his
neck and beat him with a chain. Perhaps because my Grandparents were born
in the 1800's, this was an acceptable form of punishment? Horrific.
Gloria
Michael Snyder
<Scorpi...@attNOSPAM.net> wrote in message
news:cavbvvodq1hgj8lq3...@4ax.com...
Makes you wonder who's on trial here -- the murderers, or the victims?
And how come nobody's mentioning the mom, who was the more recent victim?
Chocolic
"otter" <ot...@oceanside.com> wrote in message
news:BC1C883C.84D6%ot...@oceanside.com...
Chocolic
Bill, The Avender
<be...@NOT-SO-bad-dawgs-in-ak.com> wrote:
It's a more slow, torturous mental abuse than physical. I'm not sure
why some people assume that you have to have broken bones or
cigarrette burns on your genitals for the abuse to be considered
serious. Purely physical abuse often has a psychological component to
it, but purely psychological abuse can be sheer Hell. It quite easily
falls into the category of "hideous". It can twist, warp and
emotionally decimate you in ways no physical abuse ever could. At
least when they hit you, it's over when it's over. But when they
torture your mind, you _NEVER_ get over it.
The only part I'm wondering about is if all these relatives knew about
it, are they going to be charged with aiding and abetting? They
should be, imo.
--
L8r,
Bill
*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*
"Guido regurgitated a squid. Let's eat."
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
- Berkeley Breathed, "Opus", 11/23/03 -
*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*
PScan16416
>big role in their decision-making; I am quite sure about that.
Twenty, thirty years after the fact? If they killed their parents when they
were still teens and suffering at their hands--then I could see it as a motive
but when they're in their late 40's? Do what most grown children do to get
away from dysfunctional parents--MOVE FAR AWAY!
Bill, The Avender
(PScan16416) wrote:
There's merit to what you're saying, but there is also plenty of
evidence to suggest that sometimes, problems acquired in childhood
don't actually "erupt" until decades later. One doesn't always feel
free to simply "leave" such a situation, even if they actually are. I
do tend towards the view you have, though - that murder wasn't their
only option and thus, they should be held accountable, even if their
feelings were justified to some degree. Assuming they're found
guilty, the "Why?" of the matter will probably have a significant
impact on the severity of their sentence.
One monkey wrench in approaching it from that angle is the amount of
time that transpired between the (probable) murder of the first parent
and the second. If an issue "erupts" as I indicate above, it
generally erupts all at once. Lyle & Eric Mendez might have had a
chance to use that defense, but these adult children will probably
have a much harder time making it believable.
tinydancer
"Bill, The Avender" <Ave...@SpamMeNot.com> wrote in message
news:3ffae290...@newsgroups.bellsouth.net...
I think you are exactly right Bill. Physical abuse is bad, but emotional
abuse kills ones psyche. A beating can be survived but one's mind can be
shattered, much like humpty dumpty, never really to be 'put back together'
again. One can slowly try to piece it back together, but the cracks are
always 'visible' and there will always be those tiny little 'missing pieces'
one could never quite find or were shattered into such little pieces that
they can't be repaired or fit back in. :(
td
nimue
I think physical abuse IS psychological at the same time. If you are being
beaten bloody, you are getting a pretty clear message that you deserve that.
A child who is always told he is worthless, but isn't beaten bloody is
abused just as surely as the beaten child BUT he doesn't experience the
horror of having his physical self abused at the same time as his psyche.
Both are real forms of abuse, and both are dreadful and deeply damaging, but
I do think that physical abuse entails psychological abuse -- I don't know
why people think it doesn't.
Bill, The Avender
<cup_o_ca...@yahoo.com> wrote:
I agree. And if you'll notice, I actually said so in the post to
which you replied. There is always a psychological component to any
abuse. But I still assert that purely psychological abuse is more
traumatic than abuse in which the abuser is focused exclusively on the
physical (while they're focused entirely on the physical, that doesn't
mean the psychological component isn't present - it's inevitible).
What gets most damaged depends on how much stamina the abuser has and
where they're focusing their attack. An abuser who slaps around her
child, for instance, but who is relatively "normal" to her child the
rest of the time, won't do nearly as much damage as an abuser who
never lays a finger on her child, but who makes the child's life
miserable through constant mind games and taunts and degradation and
exploitation. But some people can indeed mix psychological and
physical abuse to a horrifying degree. Joan Crawford quickly comes to
mind. Even if there hadn't been any physical abuse whatsoever, you
can bet the abuse she doled out would make any child's inner life a
constant Hell, at least for a few decades.
tinydancer
I think perhaps because the psychological abuse I'm familar with is much
more insidious than simply 'being told you are worthless'. It's a worse
form of torture than the beatings. It's a constant instilling of fear and
terror where eventually you simply 'wish to be killed' to escape from it.
td
nimue
>> I think physical abuse IS psychological at the same time. If you
>> are being beaten bloody, you are getting a pretty clear message that
>> you deserve that. A child who is always told he is worthless, but
>> isn't beaten bloody is abused just as surely as the beaten child BUT
>> he doesn't experience the horror of having his physical self abused
>> at the same time as his psyche. Both are real forms of abuse, and
>> both are dreadful and deeply damaging, but I do think that physical
>> abuse entails psychological abuse -- I don't know why people think
>> it doesn't.
>
>
> I think perhaps because the psychological abuse I'm familar with is
> much more insidious than simply 'being told you are worthless'. It's
> a worse form of torture than the beatings. It's a constant
> instilling of fear and terror where eventually you simply 'wish to be
> killed' to escape from it.
>
> td
>
you had to endure it -- I don't know why people do that, I really don't.
tinydancer
> snip
> >> I think physical abuse IS psychological at the same time. If you
> >> are being beaten bloody, you are getting a pretty clear message that
> >> you deserve that. A child who is always told he is worthless, but
> >> isn't beaten bloody is abused just as surely as the beaten child BUT
> >> he doesn't experience the horror of having his physical self abused
> >> at the same time as his psyche. Both are real forms of abuse, and
> >> both are dreadful and deeply damaging, but I do think that physical
> >> abuse entails psychological abuse -- I don't know why people think
> >> it doesn't.
> >
> >
> > I think perhaps because the psychological abuse I'm familar with is
> > much more insidious than simply 'being told you are worthless'. It's
> > a worse form of torture than the beatings. It's a constant
> > instilling of fear and terror where eventually you simply 'wish to be
> > killed' to escape from it.
> >
> > td
> >
> I am not sure what you mean, but I will take your word for it. I am sorry
> you had to endure it -- I don't know why people do that, I really don't.
The only thing I can compare it to perhaps is much like vivi was describing
her fantasies to be to her. Except these people weren't 'polite', they
acted on their 'rudeness'. And their fantasies didn't necessarily always
have a sexual component to them. Or maybe they did but that part of it just
went over my head as a small child. What I'm trying to say is 'even I, as a
very small child, could see the look of satisfaction and pleasure come
across their face when they achieved the ultimate reaction they were waiting
for.' Me to dissolve into sheer screaming terror.' And when I 'held out'
and didn't give them what they wanted, the stronger or perhaps more
conditioned to surviving/coping with it I became, the look of anger and
frustration in their eyes at their inablility to break me. They'd 'dig in'
further, try a different method, and eventually when I finally broke down,
THEN that look of satisfaction came for them once again.
And add on to that the 'afterwards', the "I'm sorry, mommy didn't MEAN to do
that, mommy would NEVER hurt you, mommy LOVES you.' Talk about fucking up
a little kids mind and blowing it to smithereens.
td
Bill, The Avender
<tinyd...@nospam.com> wrote:
<snip - topic: psychological abuse>
>The only thing I can compare it to perhaps is much like vivi was describing
>her fantasies to be to her. Except these people weren't 'polite', they
>acted on their 'rudeness'. And their fantasies didn't necessarily always
>have a sexual component to them. Or maybe they did but that part of it just
>went over my head as a small child. What I'm trying to say is 'even I, as a
>very small child, could see the look of satisfaction and pleasure come
>across their face when they achieved the ultimate reaction they were waiting
>for.' Me to dissolve into sheer screaming terror.' And when I 'held out'
>and didn't give them what they wanted, the stronger or perhaps more
>conditioned to surviving/coping with it I became, the look of anger and
>frustration in their eyes at their inablility to break me. They'd 'dig in'
>further, try a different method, and eventually when I finally broke down,
>THEN that look of satisfaction came for them once again.
>
>And add on to that the 'afterwards', the "I'm sorry, mommy didn't MEAN to do
>that, mommy would NEVER hurt you, mommy LOVES you.' Talk about fucking up
>a little kids mind and blowing it to smithereens.
I hear you, td. There's so much about the topic that's hideous to
even think about, living through it yet is unimaginable for many
people. A really horrifying thing is when you are suddenly set upon
by the realization that you've turned around and done it to somebody
else - continuing the chain. A friend and I both did this to a girl
that lived a few houses down the street from us. We were horrible to
that girl because someone had first been horrible to us. Fortunately,
as we became older teenagers, the three of us actually became friends
and got along pretty well. But I'll never stop regretting those early
years, especially since learning more about her own horrific home life
at the time.
The ironic part of psychological abuse is that the abuser often thinks
they're doing it "for your own good". A physical abuser is more often
concerned only with themselves - they want to shut you up so they can
watch TV without acknowledging your existence or so that the next time
they tell you to bring them a beer, you'll do it without hesitating.
I'm not sure that the psychological abuser's "good intentions" - when
they actually exist - do anything to make any aspect of it any better
at all. I mean it _does_ kinda make you feel a little sorry for the
abuser, but what they did to you still isn't in any sense "okay".
Looking at some of the most despicable actions and realizing they were
committed out of a perverse sense of "love"... Well, what more is
there to say? I guess it's just not enough to screw a kid up for
life, you should also expect them to be _thankful_ for it. :-/
CBZ
"tinydancer" <tinyd...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:GbYJb.7089$vO5....@bignews6.bellsouth.net...
You seem to have made it out OK.
Self determination?
You seem to be a cool, reasonable person, love your family, love your
animals, in essence got your shit together girl.
Did you just say to yourself, I'm not going to perpetuate this crap? Much
like Bo Raxo did. I admire that.
CBZ
Robert Lee
>
> Well, this is reprehensible behavior, but "hideous abuse"? Severe
> beatings and rapes are hideous abuse. Compared to that, being made to
> sit or kneel or being tied up outside for days is a heck of a lot less
> serious.
Not really, Bo.
--
--Robert
"There are men in this world," he said, "who go about demanding to be
killed. You must have noticed them...these are people who wander through
the world shouting 'Kill me. Kill me.' And there is always somebody
ready to oblige them."
--Mario Puzo, The Godfather
tinydancer
"Bill, The Avender" <Ave...@SpamMeNot.com> wrote in message
Yup, I did that once too. I remember I was pretty young, maybe six or
seven. The witch had a friend of hers over who had a little boy, maybe two
or three. And I started to play one of her 'games' with him. A mind game.
Only instead of responding the way he was 'supposed to', he began to cry, a
couple huge teardrops came out of his eyes. And I remember feeling so bad.
I mean, I was just a little kid, and I didn't know it would make him cry.
It wasn't that big a thing, to me anyway. But I distinctly remember
stopping and never doing it again. That was what his 'reaction' did to me.
I didn't know it would make him cry.
td
tinydancer
"CBZ" <c...@lasalle.com> wrote in message
news:yTZJb.3090$uF6.1...@news1.news.adelphia.net...
Except for a nervous breakdown and good medications. Life is a challenge
everyday. Most times, if you asked me would you rather be alive or dead,
I'd probably answer dead, if my not being here wouldn't hurt anybody else.
Which is why my therapist has always trusted me with my meds. He knows the
only thing that kept me around was not wanting my kids to suffer my loss.
When I did take an overdose, I eventually called him, not really because I
wanted to live, but because I came to my senses and realized how badly I
would hurt my kids by killing myself. I've learned to cope, to function,
but my depressions can be horrible. When I hit a bad spot it's like falling
down a deep dark well. :(
> Self determination?
> You seem to be a cool, reasonable person, love your family, love your
> animals, in essence got your shit together girl.
> Did you just say to yourself, I'm not going to perpetuate this crap?
I did, I remember when I was a little girl, I used to hide in my closet,
sitting cross-legged, crying, and repeating to myself over and over "when I
grow up I'm never going to do this to my children."
td
nimue
>
>
>> Self determination?
>> You seem to be a cool, reasonable person, love your family, love your
>> animals, in essence got your shit together girl.
>> Did you just say to yourself, I'm not going to perpetuate this crap?
>
>
> I did, I remember when I was a little girl, I used to hide in my
> closet, sitting cross-legged, crying, and repeating to myself over
> and over "when I grow up I'm never going to do this to my children."
That's it. That's the key. I don't know what it is -- but some people
respond to abuse by becoming just like their abusive parents and others
respond by rising above it, becoming the kind of people they wished their
parents had been instead of what they really were. You are trying to be the
parent you needed and deserved, and THAT is wonderful and admirable.
>
> td
>
>
> Much
>> like Bo Raxo did. I admire that.
>> CBZ
--
tinydancer
> snip
> >
> >
> >> Self determination?
> >> You seem to be a cool, reasonable person, love your family, love your
> >> animals, in essence got your shit together girl.
> >> Did you just say to yourself, I'm not going to perpetuate this crap?
> >
> >
> > I did, I remember when I was a little girl, I used to hide in my
> > closet, sitting cross-legged, crying, and repeating to myself over
> > and over "when I grow up I'm never going to do this to my children."
>
> That's it. That's the key. I don't know what it is -- but some people
> respond to abuse by becoming just like their abusive parents and others
> respond by rising above it, becoming the kind of people they wished their
> parents had been instead of what they really were. You are trying to be
the
> parent you needed and deserved, and THAT is wonderful and admirable.
My therapist has said that some people turn their pain inwards, onto
themselves resulting in severe depression and others turn it outwards onto
others, in anger and rage. Don't know if that helps with your
understanding. All I know is I can't hurt other people, don't have it in me
to really hurt somebody unless they are hurting me or mine.
td
Bo Raxo
"Robert Lee" <cranch...@earthpiddlydiddlydoolink.poop.net.peepee> wrote
in message news:Xns9466A234F92...@207.69.154.201...
> "Bo Raxo" <invasio...@thepentagon.removethis.com> wrote in
> news:UO9Jb.30245$Pg1....@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net:
>
> >
> > Well, this is reprehensible behavior, but "hideous abuse"? Severe
> > beatings and rapes are hideous abuse. Compared to that, being made to
> > sit or kneel or being tied up outside for days is a heck of a lot less
> > serious.
>
> Not really, Bo.
>
I take it you didn't experience too many beatings at the hands of adults
when you were a child.
It's pretty damn scary. I would imagine repeated rapes are perhaps even
more frightening.
Robert Lee
>> > Well, this is reprehensible behavior, but "hideous abuse"? Severe
>> > beatings and rapes are hideous abuse. Compared to that, being made
to
>> > sit or kneel or being tied up outside for days is a heck of a lot
less
>> > serious.
>>
>> Not really, Bo.
>>
>
> I take it you didn't experience too many beatings at the hands of
adults
> when you were a child.
A few, actually. I still wouldn't discount somebody else's experience
because they were "only" given the deprivation-and-humiliation treatment
instead of a beating. I'm not even sure how I'd begin to rate one as
better or worse than the other.
nimue
> "nimue" <cup_o_ca...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:iN3Kb.87765$4F2.9...@twister.nyc.rr.com...
>> snip
>>>
>>>
>>>> Self determination?
>>>> You seem to be a cool, reasonable person, love your family, love
>>>> your animals, in essence got your shit together girl.
>>>> Did you just say to yourself, I'm not going to perpetuate this
>>>> crap?
>>>
>>>
>>> I did, I remember when I was a little girl, I used to hide in my
>>> closet, sitting cross-legged, crying, and repeating to myself over
>>> and over "when I grow up I'm never going to do this to my children."
>>
>> That's it. That's the key. I don't know what it is -- but some
>> people respond to abuse by becoming just like their abusive parents
>> and others respond by rising above it, becoming the kind of people
>> they wished their parents had been instead of what they really were.
>> You are trying to be the parent you needed and deserved, and THAT is
>> wonderful and admirable.
>
>
>
> My therapist has said that some people turn their pain inwards, onto
> themselves resulting in severe depression and others turn it outwards
> onto others, in anger and rage. Don't know if that helps with your
> understanding. All I know is I can't hurt other people, don't have
> it in me to really hurt somebody unless they are hurting me or mine.
>
> td
Well, you are obviously not turning your pain outward, and you aren't just
turning it inward -- you are doing your best to make sure no one you know
feels that kind of pain. You get depressed, but you still protect and love
your children the way you should have been protected and loved. You are
creating what you never had -- it's amazing.
tinydancer
My therapist tells me I did a good job. He stops me sometimes and says "do
you realize how impressive this is" when I talk about my kids or husband.
After being told for years and years how stupid you are, it feels good to
maybe finally have done something a little bit right. I do love my kids and
I know they love me. :) I made lots of mistakes with them, but I did some
things right too.
td
Cliff and Linda Griffith
> Purely physical abuse often has a psychological component to
> it, but purely psychological abuse can be sheer Hell. It quite easily
> falls into the category of "hideous". It can twist, warp and
> emotionally decimate you in ways no physical abuse ever could.
> L8r,
> Bill
Now *here's* a person with a fine "active vocabulary". A much better choice
of words than in that "other" thread. Perhaps "emotionally decimate" was
what Rozz meant to convey.
Linda
peg....@gmail.com
darrell...@gmail.com
I ordered it from Amazon today.