Re: Frey lied, says her daughter's grandma
Bonobo
> Denver defense attorney Jeralyn Merritt said Peterson's attorney could
> attempt to discredit Frey's testimony by proving she lied in other
> situations. But her remark about the ex-boyfriend would be hard to
> prove or disprove, Merritt said.
>
> Former prosecutor Ruth Jones agreed. "It's not totally immaterial, but
> it's not sufficiently relevant that the judge would let Mr. Geragos
> explore it at length. He has juicier things to work with."
It's not TESTIMONY in the sense that it could be called perjury. It was part of
a conversation with Scott. If the father REALLY wanted to have anything to do
with his child, he would take it through the courts and it doesn't sound like he
HAS, despite the fact that his PARENTS have a relationship with Amber and their
grandchild. It also doesn't matter as far as her telling Scott that this was the
case -- as far as Scott was concerned, all he really needed to know was that
Amber was a single mom, the father was out of the picture for whatever reason,
and Amber has had to work hard to support and raise her child by HERSELF. THAT
was the gist of it.
To attack Amber on that point would be taking a REAL risk of alienating the moms
on the jury, ESPECIALLY if they have been in or close to similar situations.
They're ALREADY royally pissed off at Scott's treatment of Amber (and Laci),
after all. I think the "Boy's Club" had better tread VERY carefully when it
comes to the subject of men behaving badly and women having to deal with the
fallout.
Michael Snyder
"Mardy" <M...@gte.net> wrote in message
news:56csh0dc9o5b6iaiv...@4ax.com...
> The father of Amber Frey's daughter isn't involved in the girl's life
> because Frey won't allow it -- not because the man has no interest,
> his mother said Friday.
No surprise. There's a lot of fuss about men "walking out" on their kids,
but you don't hear a lot about when women force them out.
> A dispute over his parental interest could surface in the
> double-murder trial of Frey's better-known former boyfriend, Scott
> Peterson, if his attorneys want to challenge Frey's credibility, some
> legal experts said.
>
> But they doubted that Los Angeles defense lawyer Mark Geragos will
> spend much time with a relatively small issue in the high-stakes case.
>
> Prosecutors this week played phone conversations between Peterson and
> Frey that she taped at the urging of police shortly after his pregnant
> wife, Laci, disappeared. He is charged with murdering her and their
> unborn son.
>
> When Peterson admitted to Frey on Jan. 6, 2003, that he had lied about
> being single, she tearfully lashed out, saying she did everything in
> her power "to protect my baby and me" and never hoped to become
> entangled with a married man.
>
> Frey cried in the courtroom when the recording was played for jurors
> Thursday.
>
> "I have done everything possible from Day 1, when Anthony told me he
> wanted nothing to do with his baby," Frey said in the recording.
>
> That struck a nerve with Modesto's Patricia Hinojos, Anthony's mother
> and the grandmother of Frey's daughter, now 3.
>
> "That's a lie. He's not a gigolo, and he's not irresponsible," Hinojos
> said. "Anthony wanted to be with (their daughter), but Amber refused
> to let him see her."
>
> The girl's birth certificate does not list the father.
>
> Hinojos said her son is 27 and owns a small window-cleaning business
> in Fresno. She declined to reveal his last name.
>
> The Bee was unable to reach him for comment; his mother said he
> refused to be interviewed for this story.
>
> Hinojos said she contacted Frey by phone and again in person after
> news broke in January 2003 revealing Frey as Peterson's "other woman."
> Both times Frey denied leaving her daughter in Peterson's care,
> Hinojos said.
>
> But Frey testified Tuesday that she allowed Peterson to pick up the
> girl from day care. The toddler was in her high chair as Peterson
> cooked dinner when Frey returned to her Madera home, she testified.
>
> "Up to now, (Frey) has kept my son out (of the case)," Hinojos said.
> "I never wanted to talk about it either. Now she's throwing dirt at my
> son. Now it's hitting home. Now I'm going to say what I know is truth,
> to refute what she's saying on those tapes."
>
> Denver defense attorney Jeralyn Merritt said Peterson's attorney could
> attempt to discredit Frey's testimony by proving she lied in other
> situations. But her remark about the ex-boyfriend would be hard to
> prove or disprove, Merritt said.
>
> Former prosecutor Ruth Jones agreed. "It's not totally immaterial, but
> it's not sufficiently relevant that the judge would let Mr. Geragos
> explore it at length. He has juicier things to work with."
>
> Frey, 29, posed nude a few years ago, had a second baby out of wedlock
> 14 weeks ago and reportedly dated a married man before her romance
> with Peterson.
>
> Frey's attorney, Gloria Allred, refused to comment Friday on the
> day-care issue. But she agreed that a witness's credibility is
> paramount.
>
> "If, as or when this comes up in a trial, if appropriate, I'll
> respond," Allred said. "At this point, there is no evidence that would
> impeach her on this.
>
> "Amber's privacy has been invaded so much because of the sacrifices
> she's made that I wouldn't want to invade it further," Allred said. "I
> am hopeful the judge will place limits on fishing expeditions (by
> Geragos) in an attempt to invade her privacy."
>
> Also in testimony this week, Frey spoke in glowing terms about Hinojos
> and her husband, telling Peterson on Jan. 1, 2003, that they brought a
> cake and piñata to their granddaughter's birthday party the year
> before. She wanted Peterson to meet them, and he agreed.
>
> "They're very open and loving," Frey said.
>
> Hinojos said Frey and her daughter spent two weekends in Modesto at
> the Hinojos home, the last time three months before Frey began dating
> Peterson. The two women and girl had breakfast and shopped in Fresno
> during Frey's second pregnancy, Hinojos said.
>
> Jones, who now teaches at McGeorge School of Law in Sacramento, said
> Hinojos' coming forward points up the unfortunate nature of regular
> people getting sucked into ugly cases.
>
> "The grandmother feels nobody is standing up for her son," Jones said.
> "This is one of the consequences people typically don't see. We see
> what happens to the stars, not the people in passing."
>
> http://www.modbee.com/local/story/8994095p-9887826c.html
krp
"none" <m...@privacy.org> wrote in message
news:Xns9545B6498...@216.196.97.131...
> Mardy <M...@gte.net> wrote in
news:56csh0dc9o5b6iaiv...@4ax.com:
>
> > The father of Amber Frey's daughter isn't involved in the girl's life
> > because Frey won't allow it -- not because the man has no interest,
> > his mother said Friday.
>
> California system and would get visitation barring he's not a danger to
the
> child. If the court orders it and she doesn't comply she can expect a
visit
> from the sheriff office w/order in hand.
>
> - From one who's been there.
Not everyone wants to get into legal Armageddon and not everyone has
megabucks to fight.
Besides... he was married when he knocked Amber up on the first date. As was
her present live in.
Michael Snyder
"none" <m...@privacy.org> wrote in message
news:Xns9545B6498...@216.196.97.131...
> Mardy <M...@gte.net> wrote in
news:56csh0dc9o5b6iaiv...@4ax.com:
>
> > The father of Amber Frey's daughter isn't involved in the girl's life
> > because Frey won't allow it -- not because the man has no interest,
> > his mother said Friday.
>
> This is bullshit. If he wanted to see his child he'd get go through the
> California system and would get visitation barring he's not a danger to
the
> child.
You don't know what you're talking about. "The California system"
will do nothing to ENFORCE a father's visitation rights -- nor will
any other state. It is entirely commonplace for custodial mothers to
deny fathers their court-ordered visitation priviledges.
Sarah Monroe
>
>> The father of Amber Frey's daughter isn't involved in the girl's life
>> because Frey won't allow it -- not because the man has no interest,
>> his mother said Friday.
>
>This is bullshit. If he wanted to see his child he'd get go through the
>California system and would get visitation barring he's not a danger to the
>from the sheriff office w/order in hand.
>
>- From one who's been there.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Really but then, he would be ordered to pay child support. I would do exactly
what Amber is doing, you don't support her, you have no rights.
Gms
CHRISTIAN, n.
One who believes that the New Testament is a divinely inspired book admirably
suited to the spiritual needs of his neighbor..... The Devil's Dictionary
Frosty
>
>Besides... he was married when he knocked Amber up on the first date. As was
>her present live in.
Do you have a cite for any of the "facts" contained in this statement? As far
as I know, Berg has never been married.
Frosty
njs
"Sarah Monroe" <gmsp...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040814203815...@mb-m18.aol.com...
> >Mardy <M...@gte.net> wrote in
news:56csh0dc9o5b6iaiv...@4ax.com:
> >
> >> The father of Amber Frey's daughter isn't involved in the girl's life
> >> because Frey won't allow it -- not because the man has no interest,
> >> his mother said Friday.
> >
> >This is bullshit. If he wanted to see his child he'd get go through the
> >California system and would get visitation barring he's not a danger to
the
> >child. If the court orders it and she doesn't comply she can expect a
visit
> >from the sheriff office w/order in hand.
> >
> >- From one who's been there.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> Really but then, he would be ordered to pay child support. I would do
exactly
> what Amber is doing, you don't support her, you have no rights.
>
>
> Gms
> CHRISTIAN, n.
Amber may have said "marry me, or have nothing to do with this baby". I
truly believe she desperately wants a husband and family, and uses the
children to try to trap them, it's the oldest trick in the book. When he
said no, she probably left his name off the documents and decided to have
her child without any financial help from him.
BLONDE Dotcom
because Frey won't allow it -- not because the man has no interest, his
mother said Friday.
Did she also mention the case number from when her son took Amber to
court to get visitation rights?
I have heard about 100 men claim how they want to see their kids but
their mean exes won't allow it... and every time I have asked when they
went to court - every one of them has said no.
Oh please. It's such a typical lie to blame the ex for abandoning their
child. If the guy can't produce a case number for me then he gets filed
under neglectful, absent father and I have nothing more to do with him.
This grandmother should be thankful that she has been allowed to see the
child and shut up about her loser son... unless, of course, the son did
go to court, get visitation and then make sure the court order was
enforced. Because a man with a court order for visitation can have his
ex jailed if she refuses to abide by the court's ruling.
BLONDE Dotcom
don't hear a lot about when women force them out.
Your definition of "men" sure is different than mine.
I must be more man than the ones you know because there is no force on
this earth that could keep me away from my child.
Madelin McKinnon
nothing less.
by David Sween
______________
Unfortunately, most people lie. The difference between a fool and an
intelligent human being is the capacity to determine when a person is
lying and when a person is telling the truth. If you listen to the
Amber tapes, it is very easy to determine when Scott Peterson is
lying. It is also very easy to determine when Scott Peterson is
telling the truth, unless of course, you are an arrogant fool on the
"lynch Scott Peterson" bandwagon.
Most of the tapes consist of private, useless gossip that would cause
an experienced Attorney like Mark Geragos to walk out of the court
room because it is exhaustively embarrassing to pry into a personal
conversation of two idiotic liars, one of which believes to be a
prosecuting attorney. This brief exchange recorded on January 6, 2003,
should aptly illustrate the point:
Frey: You know the only thing that would ever make me or change my
mind in any way is that she show and she...she is found alive or comes
forward or whatever...
Scott: God, I hope she is found alive. We all hope she is found alive.
We're all working for that.
Frey: Really?
Scott: Yes
Frey: And you think that's gonna happen?
Scott: God, I hope so.
Frey: Do you feel that she's honestly going to be found alive?
Scott: I've been losing hope.
Frey: You've been losing hope?
Scott: For the last couple of days.
There's more here:
Jana O'Hare
I don't know about Florida... I know about Indiana.
Child support and visitation are two separate issues. A custodial
parent cannot deny vis if child support is delinquent/absent.
This is when cs is ordered.
I'd assume he has to fight to prove paternity to get cs ordered, to
get vis. That's a lot of energy and time to "pay mortgage on a house
where you'll never live..." (that's my ex's definition of cs.)
jana o
krp
"Frosty" <Frosty...@newsguy.com> wrote in message
news:cfmb6...@drn.newsguy.com...
I can't recall with version of the news I heard that bit on. But it was
a panel discussion that all 3 of the main men in her life were married men.
The other constant thread is that she went to bed with them on the first
date.
krp
"BLONDE Dotcom" <blonde...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:27410-41...@storefull-3138.bay.webtv.net...
There is one, and you call it "YOUR HONOR." He has the back of of lots of
folks with BIG guns.
>
Sarah Monroe
>exactly
>> what Amber is doing, you don't support her, you have no rights.
>>
>>
>> Gms
>> CHRISTIAN, n.
>
>Amber may have said "marry me, or have nothing to do with this baby". I
>truly believe she desperately wants a husband and family, and uses the
>children to try to trap them, it's the oldest trick in the book. When he
>said no, she probably left his name off the documents and decided to have
>her child without any financial help from him.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
I'm sure it's always the woman's fault, never that the man is simply a jackass
that refuses to support his own child and now his Mama is complaining for him.
A Adams
"Madelin McKinnon" <rst...@runbox.com> wrote in message
news:8916096a.04081...@posting.google.com...
> Frey is a treacerous, Linda-Tripp style con artist --nothing more and
> nothing less.
>
Amber is dim, nothing more. Snott is the con artist.
tinydancer
> >> Really but then, he would be ordered to pay child support. I would do
> >exactly
> >> what Amber is doing, you don't support her, you have no rights.
> >>
> >>
> >> Gms
> >> CHRISTIAN, n.
> >
> >Amber may have said "marry me, or have nothing to do with this baby". I
> >truly believe she desperately wants a husband and family, and uses the
> >children to try to trap them, it's the oldest trick in the book. When he
> >said no, she probably left his name off the documents and decided to have
> >her child without any financial help from him.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> I'm sure it's always the woman's fault, never that the man is simply a
jackass
> that refuses to support his own child and now his Mama is complaining for
him.
I believe I read somewhere in those transcripts amber stating that 'when she
told him about the pregnancy he said 'she was on her own.' So it appears
that's what she did, took care of the child by herself. That she even
allowed the parents of the father to have regular visitation with the child
is a plus in my book. They have no legal rights, but she allowed them to
enjoy their grandchild anyway.
td
Frosty
>
>I can't recall with version of the news I heard that bit on. But it was
>a panel discussion that all 3 of the main men in her life were married men.
>The other constant thread is that she went to bed with them on the first
>date.
No offense, but that's too shaky for me.
Anybody else hear that she got knocked up with the first kid on a first date,
and that the guy was married?
Anybody else hear that her current boyfriend, Damien Berg, father of child #2,
is married, or was when he knocked her up?
Frosty
Bradley K. Sherman
tinydancer <tinyd...@nowhere.com> wrote:
>
>I believe I read somewhere in those transcripts amber stating that 'when she
>told him about the pregnancy he said 'she was on her own.' So it appears
>that's what she did, took care of the child by herself. That she even
>allowed the parents of the father to have regular visitation with the child
>is a plus in my book. They have no legal rights, but she allowed them to
>enjoy their grandchild anyway.
Or she may have seen it as free childcare.
--bks
tinydancer
Nope, the father of her first child wasn't married, and neither is the
father of her second child. IIRC, neither had ever been married. I know
the man she's with now has always been a bachelor.
td
>
tinydancer
> "krp" <web2...@verizon.net> wrote in
> news:xfwTc.6336$SC1...@nwrddc03.gnilink.net:
>
> >
> > "none" <m...@privacy.org> wrote in message
> > news:Xns9545B6498...@216.196.97.131...
> >> Mardy <M...@gte.net> wrote in
> > news:56csh0dc9o5b6iaiv...@4ax.com:
> >>
> >> > The father of Amber Frey's daughter isn't involved in the girl's
> >> > life because Frey won't allow it -- not because the man has no
> >> > interest, his mother said Friday.
> >>
> >> This is bullshit. If he wanted to see his child he'd get go through
> >> the California system and would get visitation barring he's not a
> >> danger to
> > the
> >> child. If the court orders it and she doesn't comply she can expect a
> > visit
> >> from the sheriff office w/order in hand.
> >>
> >> - From one who's been there.
> >
> >
> > Not everyone wants to get into legal Armageddon and not everyone has
> > megabucks to fight.
>
> child. Most states have a visitation 'formula' and lawyers routinely
> tell their clients what the court will probably do if no other factors
> are involved [drugs, abuse, etc]. Cases like these generally don't cost
> megabucks and very few of them turn out to be Perry Mason dramas or to
> cost an arm and a leg.
>
> > Besides... he was married when he knocked Amber up on the first date.
> > As was her present live in.
Must you persist in spreading lies. Neither of the fathers of ambers
children were married.
tinydancer
"Bradley K. Sherman" <b...@panix.com> wrote in message
news:cfodse$kqr$1...@panix1.panix.com...
Cite?
>
> --bks
>
Robert St. James (la ira de Dios)
Damien? Thought the guy's name was Dave.
Now the NE can report that the baby's father is Dr. David Markovich, 43, a
chiropractor who
runs a clinic called Backworks at 5160 N Fresno St # 101, Fresno, CA 93710
PH (559) 225-1541
Then again, there's this:
Damien Berg (Damien S. Berg) 28, Amber Frey's so-called boss at American
Bodyworks, where she rented space for her massage therapy business; told CNN Amber
Frey was a "great" employee; first met Amber Frey in school at Golden State
College; voluntarily signed a confidentiality pact with Amber Frey, agreeing not
to talk about her; alternately referred to as "Damien Bery"; resident of Fresno
???
RstJ
circe
wrote:
I believe that Damien Berg is her employer, not the boyfriend.
According to this, the father is David Markovich.
cbs5.com/news/local/2004/04/28/Key_Peterson_Witness_Gives_Birth_to_Baby_Boy.html
circe
Messalina
You're wrong. The father of her second kid has never been married.
Mez
Karen O'Mara
> No surprise. There's a lot of fuss about men "walking out" on their kids,
> but you don't hear a lot about when women force them out.
Disagree about that. There's a lot of fuss about any parent walking
out on their kids, including women. It just so happens that men do it
a lot more than women.
It's not a bum rap for men.
Karen
Alan Street
> >
> > I'm sure it's always the woman's fault, never that the man is simply a
> jackass
> > that refuses to support his own child and now his Mama is complaining for
> him.
>
>
>
> I believe I read somewhere in those transcripts amber stating that 'when she
> told him about the pregnancy he said 'she was on her own.'
Which is her side of the story. The actual truth may be somewhat
different. And not just different from her side. I'd take both sides
with a large grain of salt.
Alan Street
<m...@privacy.org> wrote:
>
> Legally custody and visitation are two seperate issues. You can sit in
> jail for not paying child support and still have legal visitation rights.
> I've seen a mother in our system spend a night in jail for not allowing
> the father to get his visitation rights.
>
Rare.
Assuming you're in the US, which state?
Alan Street
Dotcom <blonde...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >The father of Amber Frey's daughter isn't involved in the girl's life
> because Frey won't allow it -- not because the man has no interest, his
> mother said Friday.
>
>
>
> Did she also mention the case number from when her son took Amber to
> court to get visitation rights?
>
> I have heard about 100 men claim how they want to see their kids but
> their mean exes won't allow it... and every time I have asked when they
> went to court - every one of them has said no.
>
> Oh please. It's such a typical lie to blame the ex for abandoning their
> child. If the guy can't produce a case number for me
That's a great screen. I wonder if the press could "press the issue"
(sorry, the pun was too easy to pass up :-) with the father's parents.
> then he gets filed
> under neglectful, absent father and I have nothing more to do with him.
>
> This grandmother should be thankful that she has been allowed to see the
> child and shut up about her loser son... unless, of course, the son did
> go to court, get visitation and then make sure the court order was
> enforced. Because a man with a court order for visitation can have his
> ex jailed if she refuses to abide by the court's ruling.
>
Sometimes, people just choose to move on rather than continue a legal
battle.
I would be interested (mildly) in knowing the full circumstances of the
first child. I do suspect that Amber is less than the "wonderful,
devoted Mother" Allred is trying to portray her as.
Alan Street
Dotcom <blonde...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >There's a lot of fuss about men "walking out" on their kids, but you
> don't hear a lot about when women force them out.
>
>
>
> Your definition of "men" sure is different than mine.
>
"Sperm donor?"
> I must be more man than the ones you know because there is no force on
> this earth that could keep me away from my child.
>
While I personally agree with you, much of our society gauges their
manliness by their ability to conceive children, not raise them.
krp
"Karen O'Mara" <kso...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:2d2a67aa.04081...@posting.google.com...
Is that why Illinois NOW has set up a half million dollar CAMPAIGN to repeal
the VISITATION law in Illinois???????
Nancy Rudins
>
> Is that why Illinois NOW has set up a half million dollar CAMPAIGN to
> repeal the VISITATION law in Illinois???????
Can you provide a cite for that? I couldn't find one
on the Illinois NOW's home page.
Kind regards,
Nancy
--
Now they know how many holes it takes to fill the Albert Hall
(lennon/mccartney)
Nancy Rudins nru...@ncsa.uiuc.edu
http://www.ncsa.uiuc.edu/People/nrudins/
krp
"Nancy Rudins" <nru...@ncsa.uiuc.edu> wrote in message
news:10i1h4h...@news.supernews.com...
> krp wrote:
> >
> > Is that why Illinois NOW has set up a half million dollar CAMPAIGN to
> > repeal the VISITATION law in Illinois???????
>
> Can you provide a cite for that? I couldn't find one
> on the Illinois NOW's home page.
Look back at the men's rights newsgroup. An article from the Chicago Sun
Times was posted in the last 24 hours.
Nancy Rudins
I looked at the Chicago Sun Times web site and its archive
going back to 1999 and I still couldn't find anything. Do
you have a cite other than another newsgroup?
Thanks.
krp
> krp wrote:
> >
> > Look back at the men's rights newsgroup. An article from the Chicago Sun
> > Times was posted in the last 24 hours.
>
> I looked at the Chicago Sun Times web site and its archive
> going back to 1999 and I still couldn't find anything. Do
> you have a cite other than another newsgroup?
Nope it was on alt.mens-rights in the last few days. Use Google.
krp
"volantus4" <mis...@swbell.net> wrote in message
news:deb969ed.04081...@posting.google.com...
> Tug-of-War over Custody
> Fathers Deprived of their Rights in America's "Covert Matriarchy"
> by Rich Zubaty
>
> Chicago Sun-Times Commentary, October 29, 1994
> *(reproduced by permission of the author)
kay p
Would you be willing to provide any back up for your "suspicions"?
sounds like a pretty damn good single mother to me.
And about 95% of the single mothers I know are NOT single mothers by
choice, by the way.
(What a buncha cranky men hang out here. That I can live with. But the
spurious attacks on this woman's life oughta be an embarassment for
men everywhere.)
Karen O'Mara
> Is that why Illinois NOW has set up a half million dollar CAMPAIGN to repeal
> the VISITATION law in Illinois???????
I can't imagine any custodial or non-custodial parent supporting such a thing.
Karen
krp.
> > Is that why Illinois NOW has set up a half million dollar CAMPAIGN to
repeal
> > the VISITATION law in Illinois???????
>
> I can't imagine any custodial or non-custodial parent supporting such a
thing.
But the feminasties DO. They have been working on this for 10 years.
BLONDE Dotcom
>I would be interested (mildly) in knowing the full circumstances of the
first child. I do suspect that Amber is less than the "wonderful,
devoted Mother" Allred is trying to portray her as.
I'm not the one who said this.
Bill Negraeff
> In article <56csh0dc9o5b6iaiv...@4ax.com>, M...@gte.net says...
> > Denver defense attorney Jeralyn Merritt said Peterson's attorney could
> > attempt to discredit Frey's testimony by proving she lied in other
> > situations. But her remark about the ex-boyfriend would be hard to
> > prove or disprove, Merritt said.
> >
> > Former prosecutor Ruth Jones agreed. "It's not totally immaterial, but
> > it's not sufficiently relevant that the judge would let Mr. Geragos
> > explore it at length. He has juicier things to work with."
>
> It's not TESTIMONY in the sense that it could be called perjury. It was part
> of a conversation with Scott.
Can you dismiss Peterson's statements in the same manner as just
"...part of a conversation with Amber."?
> If the father REALLY wanted to have anything to do
> with his child, he would take it through the courts and it doesn't sound like he
> HAS, despite the fact that his PARENTS have a relationship with Amber and their
> grandchild. It also doesn't matter as far as her telling Scott that this was the
> case -- as far as Scott was concerned, all he really needed to know was that
> Amber was a single mom, the father was out of the picture for whatever reason,
> and Amber has had to work hard to support and raise her child by HERSELF. THAT
> was the gist of it.
>
> To attack Amber on that point would be taking a REAL risk of alienating the moms
> on the jury, ESPECIALLY if they have been in or close to similar situations.
> They're ALREADY royally pissed off at Scott's treatment of Amber (and Laci),
> after all. I think the "Boy's Club" had better tread VERY carefully when it
> comes to the subject of men behaving badly and women having to deal with the
> fallout.