"Drowning Mona" - any real-life examples?
Uncle Dollar Bill
family and/or community in general were _glad_ for it? I mean aside
from lynchings, war and the like, where the crime was only committed
by one - _maybe_ two - people.
Just curious. :-)
--
L8r,
Uncle Dollar Bill
Kris Baker
"Uncle Dollar Bill" <UncleDo...@SpamMeNot.com> wrote in message
news:40be6817...@newsgroups.bellsouth.net...
The one that springs to mind quickly is Ken Rex McElroy, the
town bully of Skidmore, MO.
I can't put it any better than the good folks at City Confidential
did:
http://www.contracostatimes.com/mld/cctimes/5813334.htm?1c
Kris
Patty
"Kris Baker" <kris....@prodigyy.net> wrote in message
news:3zbuc.4660$Ep....@newssvr32.news.prodigy.com...
:
: "Uncle Dollar Bill" <UncleDo...@SpamMeNot.com> wrote in message
: news:40be6817...@newsgroups.bellsouth.net...
: > Does anyone know of examples where a murder was committed and their
: > family and/or community in general were _glad_ for it? I mean aside
: > from lynchings, war and the like, where the crime was only committed
: > by one - _maybe_ two - people.
: >
: > Just curious. :-)
: > --
: > L8r,
: > Uncle Dollar Bill
Here's one where some of the community supported the killer. The killer was eventually
convicted of second-degree murder with the special allegation that he had used a gun, and
received a 40 year-to life sentence. It mentions the David Turturici case which I will
also post when I find it because he did literally get away with murder.
http://www.santacruzsentinel.com/archive/1999/August/15/top/stories/1top.htm
August 15, 1999
Many rally behind suspect in property-dispute killing
By DAN WHITE
Santa Cruz Sentinel staff writer
LOMPICO - Walter Stephens' neighbors say they aren't the least bit scared of him. In fact,
they say, he could baby-sit their kids anytime.
It doesn't matter to them that the 29-year-old machinist is accused of bludgeoning his
neighbor over a property dispute, then burning the neighbor's body in a backyard trash
heap.
Nor does it matter to them that his victim, 45-year-old Bob Hall, seems to have been
hard-working and well-liked at his job with the Santa Clara County Health Department.
Several of these neighbors plan to support Stephens during his October jury trial, a court
case in which Stephens could lose his freedom and Hall his reputation.
If Stephens did kill Hall - and there is little question that he did - his strongest
supporters have said, in court papers, that there must have been a good reason for the
killing or that Stephens acted in self-defense.
Six months after the Nov. 20 slaying, some friends threw Stephens a welcome-back party.
"We celebrated Walt's release on bail!" wrote one neighbor, Salle Weber, in a letter to
Judge Samuel Stevens in April. "We had a dinner party, invited several neighbors and all
my children, who have been very distraught at Walt's predicament."
She said it would be a "waste of local resources to lock him up again."
A battle over reputations
At least five of Stephens' friends, including several in Lompico, have hailed Stephens'
sociable, helpful character in court documents while describing Hall as a mentally
unstable recluse and bully who was calm one moment and "popped" the next.
That is an assessment that angers Hall's relatives, who say the defense is trying to use
character assassination to get reduced charges for Stephens.
"I've heard these people characterize Bob in a way that I never knew him," said his
cousin, Joan Clements of Scotts Valley, who described Hall as a "family man" among his
relatives. She said the portrayals are inaccurate "but who would know that aside from us?
They'll say Walter was an Eagle Scout, so who's going to speak for Bob?"
Clements said she's gone to every court hearing. "I'm not allowed to say a single thing,"
she said. " But I am there for the satisfaction that someone is there to represent Bob."
The trial will focus on two seemingly ordinary men fighting over a sliver of property in
the isolated, redwood-lined community of Lompico, set in the hills above Felton. Both men
lived on a long, twisting street where well-kept properties stand side-by-side with
ramshackle homes.
Some details of the homicide have not surfaced publicly. The killing took place somewhere
on one of the two men's properties but not in Stephens' back yard, where the body was
found.
The coroner's report maintains Hall was killed by multiple blunt traumas to the head. Hall
's body also had a gunshot wound. According to a coroner's statement in court records, the
shot was inflicted after Hall was dead.
After his arrest, Stephens pleaded innocent to a murder charge. He has made no public
statement regarding his guilt or innocence in this case.
Stephens declined to comment about the case and his lawyer, flamboyant San Franciscan Tony
Serra, has not returned several phone calls to comment.
The defense takes shape
Court files show Stephens' previous lawyer, Benjamin Rice, had compiled a stack of letters
asserting that Stephens would never have provoked a violent altercation with Hall.
Rice said Stephens' guilt is not an issue. But he also has stated that if Hall provoked
Stephens, it would either "excuse any killing altogether through self-defense," or reduce
the offense to manslaughter.
"While we do not know the details on his case, we are absolutely sure that whatever he did
was completely justified under the circumstances," wrote H. Kirk and Marilyn Kellogg of
Los Altos in a letter compiled by Rice as part of his case.
Rice said in legal papers that Hall was on prescription medication for depression, had
liver disease, was fired from the job he had held with the state for 10 years, and had
"deteriorating relationships with his neighbors" dating as far back as 1996.
Rice successfully used a similar argument in the 1997 David Turturici case, involving a
road-rage killing in Capitola.
The unarmed shooting victim, Rick Foster, was described in neighbors' statements as
unbalanced and enraged, an assessment that angered Foster's family. In that case, like the
Stephens-Hall case, there were no witnesses, so the testimony of an accused killer weighed
heavily on the proceedings.
The jury hung in favor of a murder acquittal, and Turturici pleaded guilty to
manslaughter. He got a year in jail, and the victim's family later was awarded more than
$1 million in a wrongful death suit.
Rice said his replacement would have no logical reason to change his basic argument: that
Stephens is a good, even-tempered man, and that Hall had some "very serious problems."
Lompico draws a mix
Stephens and Hall lived in a place where nature lovers, young families and the occasional
misfit can still find freedom. Silicon Valley commuters have moved in. But methamphetamine
lab busts still happen from time to time. A few of the houses have dusty cars on cinder
blocks, piles of toys and junk outside.
Both men took pride in their properties. Stephens was an active member of the private
Upper Lompico Road Maintenance Association, even taking a day off from his job to fill in
potholes with a rented backhoe.
Most everyone on the block had some interaction with him. They say he was always in a good
mood and willing to make repairs, or pull a stranded car out of the mud.
Hall was not part of the road association. Divorced, with no children, he often worked
long hours on his computer, compiling a detailed family history for his relatives dating
to the 1700s.
These two men would have no reason to know each other at all if not for the disputed land.
Hall once told his cousin that Stephens was probably a nice man, "but we just got off on
the wrong foot."
Stephens said the strip of asphalt leading across his property was a private driveway.
Hall, citing maps of an old subdivision called Happyland, swore it was a public road. He
wanted to use the so-called "Lilac Road" to gain access to a piece of his property.
That disagreement seems to have touched off the tragedy, which has left a mixture of
sadness and bitterness in its wake.
Sitting in her Scotts Valley home, Hall's cousin, Clements, said Hall did not drink or go
to parties in the area. His job required he wear a uniform.
"People who live there are non-conformists," Clements said. "To them, Bob represented the
establishment."
She never visited him in Lompico or witnessed his neighborhood interactions. But Hall
tried to lessen the conflict with Stephens by having his property resurveyed, and asking
Stephens to do the same, Clements said.
"We're not all lily-white and pure," she said. "Maybe Bob did some things that provoked
neighbors. There's not one of us walking around that hasn't done something like that. But
not enough to be killed over."
Hall well-liked by co-workers
Hall's co-workers described him as good-humored and dedicated.
"He worked in all six of our regional offices and they universally loved him," said Karen
Smith, Hall's supervisor at the Santa Clara County Health Department. Hall served as a
tuberculosis control officer and communicable disease investigator for Santa Clara County.
"He had the necessary compassion to actually go out to (TB patients') homes and talk to
them."
Santa Cruz County Assistant Prosecutor Ariadne Symons, who will be prosecuting the case,
argues that the past year has given Stephens ample opportunity to invent stories about
what really happened with Hall.
"My question is, whatever it is that happened, why didn't (Stephens) tell the police, if
it's an innocent situation?" she said. "An innocent person would have dialed 911 and said
a terrible thing just happened."
"And if he's telling the truth, why'd he change lawyers?" she said, citing the fact that
Stephens is now on his third defense attorney.
She also criticized the neighbor hood's welcome-back party after Stephens bailed out.
"Whatever actions led up to this, (Stephens') actions should scare the pants off of those
people."
Neighbors waiting to see facts
Clearly, Lompico residents have mixed views on the case. While many support Stephens,
there also are many who say they need to see all the facts before coming to any
conclusions about Stephens.
"I'm holding up judgment," a neighbor, Dan Wilson, said. "They're both nice guys. Walter
was just more involved in the community than Bob was."
"All of us of course feel a quandary," neighbor Kevin Collins said. "All I can say is
people who knew (Stephens) continue to be friendly with him. We don't feel afraid of him.
We also understood the slow-building nature of his relationship with (Hall)."
Last week, it was easy enough to track down Stephens. He partially covered his face when a
photographer approached. Other than that, he did not seem the least bit bothered by the
visitors.
Stephens, wearing jeans, work shoes and a T-shirt, said he was doing some repairs on his
property. He would not say if he still lived in Lompico full time. But lately he's been
blocking his driveway with plastic roadwork cones.
"I can't talk for legal reasons," he said, smiling and throwing up his hands. "I'd be glad
to talk to you after (the jury trial)."
The Stephens-Hall tragedy took place in a small community where neighborhood cooperation
is critical, and not just because of the isolation. The sloping terrain ensures runoff
from one property is sure to wind up in another's yard.
For these reasons, along with old and often disputed property maps, land boundaries can be
hard to define, causing friction.
"In my life, I've seen how intense disagreements between neighbors can become," Collins,
the neighbor, said. "But I try to walk away from it."
Collins, who served with Stephens on the road association, said he did not realize how
complicated and intense the Hall-Stephens conflict was getting.
"(Stephens) was talking, laughing, saying 'Can you believe he's doing this?'" Collins
said. "We didn't realize how worked up he must have been getting. I felt like I should
have read between the lines."
Divided by a road
Hall lived in the Lompico neighborhood on and off since 1988. He owned a small four-room
home with a garage on nearly one acre.
Stephens, who bought property there in the mid-1990s, is a relative newcomer, occupying a
two-bedroom home on a half-acre perched above the road.
The property, a former "fixer upper," is now meticulously maintained. It sits near where
pavement gives way to a private dirt road leading to upper Lompico. The burned area where
Hall's body was found is still plainly visible, just a few steps from the driveway.
The two men had a few things in common. Both had fairly recent job changes, were single
and commuted over the hill for work.
But Lilac Road, a street that exists at least on paper, divided them.
Lilac Road is part of the so-called Happyland subdivision. According to Lompico lore, the
lots were offered as door prizes, and given out as gifts to promote the Call-Bulletin, a
now-defunct San Francisco newspaper.
But some Lompico residents don't take the map seriously because the lots were drawn on a
flat grid, although Lompico's land is precariously steep. Its 500 tiny parcels - 25 feet
wide and 100 feet deep - were never developed.
"Happyland is tragically misnamed," Wilson, a neighbor, said.
Zayante Fire Chief Ken Boynton spoke with Hall about the debated subdivision.
"Someone obviously drew all those streets with a ruler, even though it's all at a
45-degree angle and you can't even stand on it without hanging onto the poison oak
bushes," Boynton said.
The Happyland map has led to plenty of minor heartbreaks over the years, as land investors
show up in Lompico and realize the lots made little sense.
But it's never been a factor in something that got so ugly and out-of-control.
"Property disputes are very very common but usually they just end up in court," Boynton
said.
Rice, Stephens' first defense attorney, cited a case last year where Hall had an alleged
conflict with Stephen's tenant, Susan Friedrich, who called sheriff's deputies Aug. 3,
1998.
According to court papers, Friedrich said Hall angrily demanded she move a car from the
disputed driveway. A deputy responded, and Hall left the property.
The driveway also played a major role in the notorious "backhoe incident" of last Aug. 28.
An earlier confrontation
According to court papers, Hall installed a culvert in a drainage ditch that ran to the
side of Stephens' driveway. Stephens got a backhoe to remove it on at least three
occasions.
What happened next is open to dispute. Hall told deputies, co-workers, friends and family
that Stephens came at him that last week of August with the backhoe, scooping him up and
dropping him about five feet, landing him flat on his back.
Hall's cousin, Joan Clements, said Hall was in shock and clearly in pain when she picked
him up at Dominican Hospital in Santa Cruz. "He had to have physical therapy," she said.
Rice said it was Hall who jumped in front of the backhoe and hung on to the bucket, trying
to stop Stephens.
Hall later sued Stephens over the incident, citing intentional injuries and negligence.
The complaint was filed Oct. 26, and served to Hall Nov. 15.
Five days later, Hall's co-workers at the Santa Clara County Health Department called
sheriff's deputies, wondering why Hall hadn't shown up to his last day of work; Hall and
his co-workers had planned a get-together at a Mexican restaurant.
Hall had given notice to quit the county job so he could work for the Santa Cruz Water
District. The Highway 17 commute was wearing him out, friends said.
Deputies arrived in Lompico to find a log burning in Hall's fireplace, the TV on and the
door wide open.
They knocked on Stephens' door and became suspicious when he broke off questioning to tend
a fire. After walking with him to his back yard, they saw a couch burning. Taking a closer
look, a deputy thought he saw a human arm sticking out from under the couch.
Deputy Steve Watson reported that he drew his gun, pointed it at Stephens and said, "I'm
sorry if I'm wrong about what I think I saw, but let me see your hands."
"Before you go any further, it is what you think it is," Stephens reportedly replied. At
that point, he was placed in handcuffs.
Now there is nothing left for the community to do but wait.
And now, as much as neighbors speak about withholding judgment, both of these neighbors
have been judged, at least to some extent.
Hall has faced the accusations of Stephens' friends. And Stephens faces the anger of Hall'
s family.
Joan Clements said she's bracing herself for "nastiness" in October.
At breaks in court proceedings, "I overhear (Stephens) talking about planning his
vacations," she said. "I think it's disgraceful. He's walking around, enjoying his freedom
and his life when Bob can't."
Michael Snyder
"Uncle Dollar Bill" <UncleDo...@SpamMeNot.com> wrote in message
news:40be6817...@newsgroups.bellsouth.net...
Burning Bed? Guess it depends who you mean by "community".
Uncle Dollar Bill
<r...@qyz.com> wrote:
<snip>
>Here's one where some of the community supported the killer.
<snip>
Thank you for posting this. It's pretty much along the lines of what
I was looking for, though it sounds like Hall was a little more
well-liked than Mona. Thanks for the info, it's an interesting case!
proudmari
>UncleDo...@SpamMeNot.com
> (Uncle Dollar Bill)
>Just curious. :-)
>L8r,
>Uncle Dollar Bill
There was one on City Confidential a couple of weeks ago where the 40+
'companion' of a woman in her 80's shot her and stuffed her body in the
freezer. Nobody in town could stand the old lady so it was a _long_ time
before she was even missed.
In the meantime, the 'companion' spent close to 4 million dollars of her
money buying towns people cars, houses, new churches, little league
uniforms, trophys etc. etc. Even when they found out what he had done,
they rallied to his defense, but he was convicted never-the-less.
Also on City Confidential, 'The Tomato Patch Murder', a bitter old man
who molested his daughter, and beat his son for years (He and a friend
did the killing.) Lots of people came forward who felt the killing was
more than justified (possibly
including a cop if I remember correctly).
proudmari
Uncle Dollar Bill
<msn...@redhat.com> wrote:
Ahhhh... Good point. There were quite a few cheers for that one.
Hmmn. Let's see. Have you ever actually seen "Drowning Mona"? About
the only person who didn't actively want her dead was the sherrif,
iirc. So I suppose by "community" I mean the neighbors and
acquaintances in close physical proximity that routinely interacted
with the murdered individual. Just an ordinary, physical "community",
not something abstract like ... ahhh... the "feminist community",
which is what I assume you're referencing above. :-)
One that just came to me is the Ellie Nesler case. She's the woman
whose son was being molested by David (Daniel?) Driver. Driver had
gone free from such charges before and so when it looked like he might
get off the hook again, she ended up shooting him to death in the
court room. People were _real_ happy about that (Except his poor
mother, of course). The only reason it wasn't a lynching is because
lynching is much more difficult to pull off these days.
So I suppose child molestors & other sexual predators being murdered
by victims or their victim's loved ones - & the community praising the
murderer for ridding the world of yet another scum - would fall in
line with what I'm talking about, too.
proudmari
>UncleDo...@SpamMeNot.com
> (Uncle Dollar Bill)
>Just curious. :-)
>L8r,
>Uncle Dollar Bill
Another good example is Grady Stiles.
http://listserv.brown.edu/archives/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind9407&L=trepan-l&F=&S=&P=179
Google "Lobster Boy" for a lot more about him.
proudmari
Patty
"Uncle Dollar Bill" <UncleDo...@SpamMeNot.com> wrote in message
: In alt.true-crime on Sun, 30 May 2004 03:38:56 GMT, "Michael Snyder"
: <msn...@redhat.com> wrote:
:
: >
: >"Uncle Dollar Bill" <UncleDo...@SpamMeNot.com> wrote in message
: >news:40be6817...@newsgroups.bellsouth.net...
: >> Does anyone know of examples where a murder was committed and their
: >> family and/or community in general were _glad_ for it? I mean aside
: >> from lynchings, war and the like, where the crime was only committed
: >> by one - _maybe_ two - people.
: >>
: >> Just curious. :-)
Here's a case in the Bay Area from a few years ago where even the judge
felt sorry for the husband. The husband and wife were divorcing and she
was taunting him that he would end up with nothing. Earlier while they were
still married she had lost weight and had numerous affairs with co-workers and
flaunted them in his face. SJ Mercury had a really good article at the time
about the problems in this marriage and what people had to say but you have
to pay for it.
ALAMEDA COUNTY
Man Kills Wife With Bat, Gets 7-Year Sentence
San Framcisco Chronicle
Saturday, July 22, 2000
Hayward -- A Fremont man who once served as a Mormon missionary in Brazil will spend seven
years in prison for crushing his wife's skull with a baseball bat and dumping her body in
a Santa Cruz County ravine two years ago.
The sentence yesterday by Superior Court Judge Leo Dorado fell far short of the 12-year
imprisonment prosecutors had sought for Daniel Mackay, 44, who killed Debby Mackay, his
wife of 20 years.
``We're very disappointed,'' said Deputy District Attorney Paul Pinney, who said ``the
viciousness of the crime'' demanded Mackay receive the longest sentence possible.
Mackay was convicted of manslaughter on April 6 after a monthlong trial in which the jury
agreed with defense attorneys who said the killing was a not premeditated murder.
snip rest of article
==========================
Fremont Man Found Guilty in Death of Wife
Henry K. Lee,
San Francisco Chronicle Staff Writer
Friday, April 7, 2000
FREMONT -- A Fremont man who once served as a Mormon missionary was convicted of voluntary
manslaughter yesterday for crushing his wife's skull with a baseball bat before dumping
her body in a Santa Cruz County ravine off Highway 17.
Dan Mackay, 44, could face as long as 12 years in prison when he is sentenced July 21 by
Alameda County Superior Court Judge Leo Dorado for killing Debby Mackay, his wife of 20
years, in 1998.
A four-woman, eight-man jury in Hayward deliberated for less than three days before
finding Mackay guilty of manslaughter, instead of murder, which could have led to a life
sentence.
During the monthlong trial, attorneys argued over whether the killing was premeditated and
revealed unflattering details of a failing marriage that prompted the couple to file for
divorce.
Deputy District Attorney Paul Pinney argued that Dan Mackay, a devout Mormon who once
worked as a missionary in Brazil, killed his 38-year-old wife in cold blood just two
months after he began a romantic relationship on the Internet with a Texas woman.
But defense attorney Penny Cooper of Emeryville said the 38-year- old woman's breast
implant surgery, appetite-reduction operation and use of a diet drug prompted affairs that
made her husband's life miserable and prompted his rage.
The verdict was met with dismay and anger by Debby Mackay's parents, who also decried what
they called an assassination of the slain woman's character.
``He got away with murder, and now he has to live with himself,'' Charlene Whitehead, 61,
the victim's mother, said from her home near Salt Lake City. ``Debby was loved by
everyone. She was a beautiful person made to look like a tramp in that trial.''
On April 24, 1998, Dan Mackay came up from behind and hit his wife in the head several
times with a bat in the couple's master bathroom in their Doane Street home in Fremont's
Irvington neighborhood.
After washing the body in the bathtub, he put it in his Toyota pickup truck, stopped by
his work in Mountain View and drove up Highway 17 in the Santa Cruz Mountains, where he
dumped the body in a ravine. He was arrested after a California Highway Patrol officer
found him stopped along the road and saw blood on the truck.
Cooper said her client was ``a good man who did a bad thing'' and urged jurors to convict
him of involuntary manslaughter.
During the trial, Cooper said that Debby Mackay began philandering after undergoing a
gastric bypass operation to reduce her appetite, getting breast implants and taking fen-
phen, the diet drug cocktail. Her mood swings and affairs made Dan Mackay's life
intolerable, Cooper said.
``It's a tragedy, but I think, under those circumstances, it was clear he was operating in
the heat of passion and just lost it, basically,'' Cooper said. ``I really think justice
was served.''
Pinney said the severity of the attack, together with Dan Mackay's cleaning of the crime
scene and efforts to hide the body in the ravine, were actions consistent with a planned
homicide. None of Debby Mackay's problems should have led to her killing, the prosecutor
said.
``I think the evidence was there for some type of murder,'' Pinney said. ``Naturally, I'm
disappointed, but I hope this brings some closure to both families.''
Whitehead recalled yesterday how her daughter, her voice shaking, had called her the day
before she was killed to say she was afraid of her husband. She had thought about leaving
him but stayed for the sake of their four children, who did not witness the killing, her
mother said.
``We hung up, and I had that awful feeling -- I said to my husband that he might try to
kill her,'' Whitehead said, crying. ``I will regret to my dying day that I didn't say,
`Debby, just get out of there.' ''
Michael Snyder
"Uncle Dollar Bill" <UncleDo...@SpamMeNot.com> wrote in message
> In alt.true-crime on Sun, 30 May 2004 03:38:56 GMT, "Michael Snyder"
> <msn...@redhat.com> wrote:
>
> >
> >"Uncle Dollar Bill" <UncleDo...@SpamMeNot.com> wrote in message
> >news:40be6817...@newsgroups.bellsouth.net...
> >> Does anyone know of examples where a murder was committed and their
> >> family and/or community in general were _glad_ for it? I mean aside
> >> from lynchings, war and the like, where the crime was only committed
> >> by one - _maybe_ two - people.
> >>
> >> Just curious. :-)
> >
> >Burning Bed? Guess it depends who you mean by "community".
>
> Ahhhh... Good point. There were quite a few cheers for that one.
>
> Hmmn. Let's see. Have you ever actually seen "Drowning Mona"? About
> the only person who didn't actively want her dead was the sherrif,
> iirc. So I suppose by "community" I mean the neighbors and
> acquaintances in close physical proximity that routinely interacted
> with the murdered individual. Just an ordinary, physical "community",
> not something abstract like ... ahhh... the "feminist community",
> which is what I assume you're referencing above. :-)
>
> One that just came to me is the Ellie Nesler case. She's the woman
> whose son was being molested by David (Daniel?) Driver.
Allegedly molested. Man never got a trial, ya know...
>Driver had
> gone free from such charges before and so when it looked like he might
> get off the hook again, she ended up shooting him to death in the
> court room.
Or looked like he might get a fair trial -- depending on how you look at it.
>People were _real_ happy about that (Except his poor
> mother, of course). The only reason it wasn't a lynching is because
> lynching is much more difficult to pull off these days.
Well, if you mean a lot of folks assumed he was guilty, I suppose
so -- they do the same here whenever a man is accused. But as
far as wanting him dead without a trial, I think she acted pretty
much unilaterally on that.
> So I suppose child molestors & other sexual predators being murdered
> by victims or their victim's loved ones - & the community praising the
> murderer for ridding the world of yet another scum - would fall in
> line with what I'm talking about, too.
Accused child molesters and sexual predators, alleged victims. Yep,
that's why I'm so opposed to the publication of the accused's name
before trial.
Michael Snyder
"Patty" <r...@qyz.com> wrote in message
news:aec9674865761acf...@news.teranews.com...
"Fell far short" -- same sort of rhetoric we hear in all of the Juarez
reportage.
Seven years is hardly "far short" of twelve years -- it's more than half.
Reporters always seem compelled to express this sort of outrage whenever
the victim is a woman.
> ``We're very disappointed,'' said Deputy District Attorney Paul Pinney,
who said ``the
> viciousness of the crime'' demanded Mackay receive the longest sentence
possible.
>
> Mackay was convicted of manslaughter on April 6 after a monthlong trial in
which the jury
> agreed with defense attorneys who said the killing was a not premeditated
murder.
Seven years is MUCH higher than average for manslaughter, I think... And
the
average sentence for a woman who kills her husband is only six years, for
all
convictions (including first degree murder and on down).
Patty
: "Uncle Dollar Bill" <UncleDo...@SpamMeNot.com> wrote in message
According to this July 22, 2000 Oakland Tribune article, he could have been paroled this
month.
MacKay could be paroled as soon as May 2004. Since his arrest, he has
spent two years and 90 days behind bars. Combined with the additional
days he earned for good behavior, he was credited with a total of two
years, 213 days served, Dorado said. Minimum sentence would be an
additional three years and 292 days, maximum would be four years, 172
days.
Chocolic
"Kris Baker" <kris....@prodigyy.net> wrote in message
news:3zbuc.4660$Ep....@newssvr32.news.prodigy.com...
>
Can you post the article on here? You have to sign up for the dang
site in order to read it. Hate that...
Chocolic
Uncle Dollar Bill
<msn...@redhat.com> wrote:
>
>"Uncle Dollar Bill" <UncleDo...@SpamMeNot.com> wrote in message
>news:40c08817...@newsgroups.bellsouth.net...
>> In alt.true-crime on Sun, 30 May 2004 03:38:56 GMT, "Michael Snyder"
>> <msn...@redhat.com> wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >"Uncle Dollar Bill" <UncleDo...@SpamMeNot.com> wrote in message
>> >news:40be6817...@newsgroups.bellsouth.net...
>> >> Does anyone know of examples where a murder was committed and their
>> >> family and/or community in general were _glad_ for it? I mean aside
>> >> from lynchings, war and the like, where the crime was only committed
>> >> by one - _maybe_ two - people.
>> >>
>> >> Just curious. :-)
>> >
>> >Burning Bed? Guess it depends who you mean by "community".
>>
>> Ahhhh... Good point. There were quite a few cheers for that one.
>>
>> Hmmn. Let's see. Have you ever actually seen "Drowning Mona"? About
>> the only person who didn't actively want her dead was the sherrif,
>> iirc. So I suppose by "community" I mean the neighbors and
>> acquaintances in close physical proximity that routinely interacted
>> with the murdered individual. Just an ordinary, physical "community",
>> not something abstract like ... ahhh... the "feminist community",
>> which is what I assume you're referencing above. :-)
>>
>> One that just came to me is the Ellie Nesler case. She's the woman
>> whose son was being molested by David (Daniel?) Driver.
>
>Allegedly molested. Man never got a trial, ya know...
Well, that's true. He had been convicted of it before, though. In
legalese, "alleged" matters, but in the realm of emotions, he either
did it or he didn't. If he did, which I do believe he did, then on a
gut level I'd feel he deserved it. But from the legal aspect of it,
you're correct - we all "allegedly" have the right to a fair trial.
>>Driver had
>> gone free from such charges before and so when it looked like he might
>> get off the hook again, she ended up shooting him to death in the
>> court room.
>
>Or looked like he might get a fair trial -- depending on how you look at it.
I think I see your point here, but I don't believe the concept of
"fair trial" even crossed her mind that day.
>>People were _real_ happy about that (Except his poor
>> mother, of course). The only reason it wasn't a lynching is because
>> lynching is much more difficult to pull off these days.
>
>Well, if you mean a lot of folks assumed he was guilty, I suppose
>so -- they do the same here whenever a man is accused. But as
>far as wanting him dead without a trial, I think she acted pretty
>much unilaterally on that.
Hmmnnn. Okay, maybe it was over-dramatized, but the televised version
I'd seen on "Lifetime" (please don't boo me for using that as my
source <G>) had the entire neighborhood set upon the house of the
accused & tearing it apart, the accused's mother fleeing and having to
stay in a hotel because she was not safe at home. That struck me as
"gleeful" on the part of the neighbors & such. Was that part of the
story a fabrication? I could believe a neighborhood would act that
way in a case like that because I remember the reaction of my own
parents to that particular slaying. They were glad she killed him,
and I think the sentiment was shared among a vast number of people (I
know, I know - but please don't visit the sins of the parents upon
their children, mkay? <G>).
>> So I suppose child molestors & other sexual predators being murdered
>> by victims or their victim's loved ones - & the community praising the
>> murderer for ridding the world of yet another scum - would fall in
>> line with what I'm talking about, too.
>
>Accused child molesters and sexual predators, alleged victims. Yep,
>that's why I'm so opposed to the publication of the accused's name
>before trial.
Yes, I see what you're saying. And those words are things we really
should put more effort into remembering: "accused", "alleged", etc...
etc... etc... Sometimes it's just so easy to forget all that.
Kris Baker
"Chocolic" <chatt...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:7xguc.9937$_k3.2...@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
>
> "Kris Baker" <kris....@prodigyy.net> wrote in message
> news:3zbuc.4660$Ep....@newssvr32.news.prodigy.com...
> >
> > town bully of Skidmore, MO.
> >
> > I can't put it any better than the good folks at City Confidential
> > did:
> > http://www.contracostatimes.com/mld/cctimes/5813334.htm?1c
> >
> > Kris
> >
>
> Can you post the article on here? You have to sign up for the dang
> site in order to read it. Hate that...
>
> Chocolic
That's strange, because you don't have to go through the
registration crapola when you click on a "cached" link from
a google search....but you do when you click on it "naked".
I hate it, too. There's lots of news stories I don't get to read,
because I'm already flooded with spam.
Here's the whole thing. Any time I get to read good things about
Paul Winfield, I'll make everyone else do it, too:
Posted on Thu, May. 08, 2003
'City Confidential' cleverly combines history, murder
By Barry Gifford
NEW YORK TIMES
"Call Northside 777" was a nifty little black-and-white crime film made in
mock-documentary style by Henry Hathaway in 1948. Based on an actual case,
it tracked a cynical Chicago reporter (James Stewart) as he uncovered the
facts necessary to free a man falsely convicted for murdering a cop in a
speakeasy.
"Call Northside 777" established Chicago as a character in the story, and
its influence can be seen in a cleverly conceived television series: A&E's
"City Confidential," a true-crime show that visits places as disparate as
Los Angeles; Miami; Ruthton, Minn.; and Skidmore, Mo., and makes them
central to its plots.
Each hourlong episode of "City Confidential" applies the same successful
formula, mixing history, geography and, usually, murder. The story of a
mysterious, sensational crime from a city's idealized past is told through
the memories of people living in its less-than-ideal present. Using digital
video, "City Confidential" brings the viewer into the moment, almost as if
it were a well-made home movie about a place that has run slightly off the
tracks since the killing or sex scandal that its denizens are now being
urged to recall.
As with any cable documentary series, where budgets are tight to
nonexistent, the images can be repetitious or seemingly unrelated to the
events at hand. But "City Confidential" manages an intimacy that is
ingenuous and intriguing, creating the feeling that we may suddenly glimpse
something completely unexpected or shocking.
That mood is enhanced by the show's secret weapon: the voiceover narration
provided by Paul Winfield. Sounding alternately laconic, arch, even
patrician, Winfield seems to be getting a kick out of the tongue-in-cheek (I
presume) text provided for him by the show's writers. In an episode about
carnival freaks in Gibsonton, Fla., focusing on the slaying of Grady Stiles
Jr., better known because of his malformed hands and feet as Lobster Boy,
Winfield gets to say, "It's never over 'til the bearded fat lady sings,"
and, "Two of the hands clapping were claws." The show on the killing of a
Los Angeles strip club entrepreneur named Horace "Big Mac" McKenna, which
aired last month, is chockablock with lines Mickey Spillane would have
tossed, among them, "The news blew through like a sailor with a pocketful of
greenbacks."
The show's purposeful purpling of the language is never condescending or
mean; it's fun. Episodes set in small, seemingly peaceful towns begin with a
tease such as "a very unique community -- the last place you would expect a
murder." We are at once transported to Jim Thompson territory. Thompson, who
was born in the Dust Bowl town of Anadarko, Okla., peppered his
paperback-original tours de force (such as "The Killer Inside Me" and "Pop.
1280") with the same kind of corny metaphors and silly descriptions used by
the "City Confidential" scripters. (Horace McKenna, the strip club king,
worked in the "titillation trade.") Winfield's graveyard delivery allows us
to wade through the trash without getting intellectually icky; without him,
the show might be more in the realm of "Cops."
The use of the word "confidential" in the context of lurid expose was a
favorite device in the 1950s, notably in the vulgar investigative books of
Jack Lait and Lee Mortimer ("Chicago Confidential," "New York Confidential!
The Big City After Dark"). These guilty reads ransacked newspaper files for
stories of racketeers and gun molls and dirty politicians, banking on the
same public taste that made cheap magazines such as True Detective popular.
Cult favorite Phil Karlson, whose influence is also perceptible in "City
Confidential," made a solid caper picture in 1952 called "Kansas City
Confidential." Karlson's 1955 film "The Phenix City Story" -- a docudrama
about the "cleaning up" of an Alabama town that offered prostitution,
gambling and cheap liquor to the soldiers spilling across the state line
from Fort Benning, Ga. -- is really the granddaddy of "City Confidential,"
whether the show's creators know it or not.
Of the episodes I've seen, the "City Confidential" that impressed me most
had a small-town setting: Skidmore, Mo. It skillfully and seriously set
forth the tale of Ken Rex McElroy, the town bully called "the barbarian of
Nadaway County," who was disposed of in 1981 by a group of vigilantes
bearing shotguns. The episode juxtaposes interviews with the citizens of
Skidmore, a group that presumably includes some or all of the killers, and a
mountain of facts about McElroy -- the 15th of 16 children, an irredeemable
thief of livestock, grain and liquor, an unapologetic brutalizer of his
several wives and 15 children. Ken Rex was shot to death in the middle of
town on a weekday morning, after having drunk six beers while he sat in his
pickup in front of the D&G Bar. Nobody would name the triggermen or -women.
When his widow filed a wrongful death lawsuit, her house was burned to the
ground. Though there was proof of arson, nobody was arrested for the crime.
Jim Thompson would have had a ball with this one.
I wouldn't necessarily describe watching "City Confidential" as a guilty
pleasure. It's too self-aware for that. Its modest budget, and its
sensationalism, don't disqualify it from being not only entertaining but,
sometimes, meaningful, mining the lives of the tortured and forgotten in the
manner of certain noir or hard-boiled writers such as Thompson, David Goodis
and Charles Williams. My ideal viewing companion for the show would be
William Faulkner. I can imagine Bill, as many citizens of his hometown of
Oxford, Miss., still refer to him, taking a long sip of sour mash whiskey,
pointing at the television set and drawling, "I might could have used that
bit in 'Sanctuary.'"
>
>
Robert Lee
news:40bf8773...@newsgroups.bellsouth.net:
> Thank you for posting this. It's pretty much along the lines of what
> I was looking for, though it sounds like Hall was a little more
> well-liked than Mona. Thanks for the info, it's an interesting case!
It's even more interesting if you're familiar with Santa Cruz. My aunt
and uncle, about the truest "old hippies" you'd ever meet, have lived
there for decades. During the nineties, they and their neighbors
spearheaded a drive to get an infestation of violent drug dealers out of
the area. (I shit you not, these people were walking around nearby
playgrounds with *T-Shirts* that said "I have heroin" and "I have
crack." One of them threatened to shoot my niece, who was...two, at the
time, I believe, which is what kicked the whole thing off.) For that,
they were castigated by other neighbors, city council members, the local
media, etc., as racist/fascist/whatevers, and lost friends over it,
although they were ultimately successful. (Fun factoid: before they were
successful, Sublime did a show one night in Santa Cruz, the lead singer
bought heroin right by their house, and that's probably what he OD'd on a
day or so later.)
Only in someplace like Santa Cruz could an obviously lunatic fuck who
attacked his neighbor with a backhoe, finally beat him to death and tried
to burn his body be treated like a hero because his victim worked for the
freaking County Health Department and was kind of a straight-arrow.
--
--Robert
"I did once get him to admit the beauty of Bembo," he adds, "a serif."
Patty
"Robert Lee" <cranch...@earthpiddlydiddlydoolink.poop.net.peepee> wrote in message
news:Xns94F9794C16F...@207.217.125.205...
: UncleDo...@SpamMeNot.com (Uncle Dollar Bill) wrote in
A lot of Santa Cruz County has changed because the housing prices in
Silicon Valley forced people to look over the hill, raising housing prices
over there. That said, a lot of Santa Cruz County remains the same. My
friend from Oregon when she lived here always said she would love to
live in Monterey County, but Santa Cruz County made her feel uncomfortable.
I've only been through the small Santa Cruz Mountain town of Lompico a few times,
when I was going to Loch Lomond Reservoir. And it seemed a throwback to the 1960s
and 1970s. It looked junky to me, homes not well kept up, but bet they still could
possibly
be in the $400k range. Wouldn't want to be in that area during an earthquake or a
heavy rain, bet most of them only carry minimum insurance on their homes.
Robert Lee
news:60b9b9485672af0c...@news.teranews.com:
> A lot of Santa Cruz County has changed because the housing prices in
> Silicon Valley forced people to look over the hill, raising housing
> prices over there. That said, a lot of Santa Cruz County remains the
> same. My friend from Oregon when she lived here always said she would
> love to live in Monterey County, but Santa Cruz County made her feel
> uncomfortable.
I did a lot of my growing up in Santa Cruz and Watsonville, and I still
like it there, but...I never really did like the politics. That somebody
like my aunt, who's taught at the local alternative high school for a
couple of decades and is the kind of teacher who takes exceptionally at-
risk students into her home to get them straightened out could end up
being called a Nazi by her neighbors and local politicos for wanting a
bunch of thugs out of her front yard is just bizarre.