Need update: D.B. Cooper's skull found?
Patty
http://www.usnews.com/usnews/issue/000724/mysteries/cooper.htm
Over the past three decades, the Federal Bureau of Investigation has investigated more
than 1,000 "serious suspects" along with assorted crackpots and deathbed confessors.
Most-but not all-have been ruled out. The case was back in the news just last month when
FBI agents investigated a skull discovered nearly 20 years ago along the Columbia River.
It turned out to belong to a woman, possibly an American Indian. Today, the D.B. Cooper
case remains the world's only unsolved skyjacking.
In March 1995, a Florida antique dealer named Duane Weber lay dying of polycystic kidney
disease in a Pensacola hospital. He called his wife, Jo, to his bed and whispered: "I'm
Dan Cooper." Jo, who had learned in 17 years of marriage not to pry too deeply into
Duane's past, had no idea what her secretive husband meant. Frustrated, he blurted out:
"Oh, let it die with me!" Duane died 11 days later. Jo sold his van two months after his
death. The new owner discovered a wallet hidden in the overhead console. It contained a
U.S. Navy "bad conduct discharge" in Duane's name and a Social Security card and
prison-release form from the Missouri State Penitentiary, in the name of "John C.
Collins." Duane had told Jo that he had served time for burglary under the name John
Collins. Still, says Jo, a real-estate agent in Pace, Fla., Duane rarely spoke of his
past. "His life started with me, and that was it," she says.
Lady Taker
have been D.B. Cooper's had been found in a deceased woman's attic where she
had put it 20+ year's previously after finding it in a forest. It had been
found not too far away from where the rotted $20 bills were found years ago
(from the hijacking ransom).
Because the dental work in the skull was modern and because of the location and
when it had been originally been found the authorities were going to try and
figure out if it could solve the riddle of what happened to D. B. Cooper.
(And, yes, I know that's not his real name but that's the name everyone knows
him by.)
Does anyone have any updated info on this skull? And while we're at it, what
kind of woman finds a human skull in a forest and pops it into a plastic bag to
keep in her attic for a few decades??
Volfie (okay, I *might* but only if it didn't have any mercury fillings,
braces or crowns)
GLC1173
>Over the past three decades, the Federal >Bureau of Investigation has
>investigated more
>than 1,000 "serious suspects" along with >assorted crackpots and deathbed
>confessors.
>Most-but not all-have been ruled out.
My gut feeling always has been that D.B. Cooper was an FBI agent just
wanting to make Hoover look like a fool by giving in an unsolvable major crime
- and that he walked out of the woods with the rest of the search party.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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Lady Taker
>Excerpt from USA News. Read rest at this site for story of Duane Weber.
>
>http://www.usnews.com/usnews/issue/000724/mysteries/cooper.htm
This isn't the story I was talking about -- deathbed confessions are generally
one big load of hooey in my book. :)
To Michael: bodies reduced to first food then to a skeleton are often broadly
dispersed by animals. In this case, the worst offender was a human animal that
should have known better than to pop a skull into a plastic bag and *keep it*
instead of notifying authorities. (Duh!)
Disarticulated skeletons have a way of going unnoticed in the woods. This
dimwit picked up and took home the skull -- which is a larger bone and easier
to see on the forest floor -- but that's not to say that there weren't other
bones nearby. I doubt she had the freakin' sense god gave an ant so we can't
base anything around what she gathered or didn't gather on her jaunt. Decades
of weathering plus the fact that the woman who found the skull is now dead will
probably assure that nothing else of the body will ever be found.
Volfie (unless you check petrified owl droppings in the area)
Patty
> This isn't the story I was talking about -- deathbed confessions are
generally one big load of hooey in my book. :)
>
skull was in the news in June but actually found 20 years ago.
"The case was back in the news just last month when FBI agents
investigated a skull discovered nearly 20 years ago along the Columbia
River. It turned out to belong to a woman, possibly an American
Indian."
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Lady Taker
>You didn't read the first part of the July article which means the
>skull was in the news in June but actually found 20 years ago
Sorry, I didn't link over to the article at all, I just went by whatever else
you posted. AOL is being a pile of crapola these last several days and moving
about is clumbersome at best. I'm so happy when I can finally access
newsgroups that I'm not linking to *anything* that might bump me out.
>It turned out to belong to a woman, possibly an American
>Indian."
I assume they mean a modern day American Indian since the article I read said
it supposedly had modern dental work. Or did they?
Volfie (and I still think the woman who put the skull in her attic was a idiot
of stellar proportions)
Patty
I wondered the same thing but couldn't find anything more than this.
And I read that article, too, that described the dentistry. Maybe I
can find that one later and post it.
DedNdogYrs
wanting to make Hoover look like a fool by giving in an unsolvable major
Sounds kind of far out don't you think? Would you jump out the back of a 727
to make someone look bad?
Dogs & children first.
Kris Baker
DedNdogYrs wrote in message
<20000924082550...@ng-cq1.aol.com>...
><My gut feeling always has been that D.B. Cooper was an FBI agent just
>wanting to make Hoover look like a fool by giving in an unsolvable major
>crime-and that he walked out of the woods with the rest of the search
party.>
>
>Sounds kind of far out don't you think? Would you jump out the back of a
727
>to make someone look bad?
>Dogs & children first.
Did anyone else ever read the book "The Real McCoy"?
Weeks after the Cooper incident, we had a nearly-identical case here
in Utah.....and the skydiver did live, although later captured with
thousands
of dollars. The physical similarities between "Cooper" and McCoy
were amazing.
The writer supposed that the same person did both crimes - and it's
always made more sense to me than any other theories.
Kris
Kris Baker
I normally don't do book reviews ;)
but this particular book is one of my favorites. I've got a
first printing, and wish I'd purchased more at the time -
I didn't realize what would happen to it in a short time.
Book: "D.B.Cooper - The Real McCoy"
1991, University of Utah Press
Out-of-print
Written by two FBI investigators who worked on the McCoy
case (Calame and Rhoades). Interestingly, the two cases
mesh on more than 20 points...including the fact that the
later (successful) McCoy hijacking actually improved on
Cooper's methods -- many of which had never been
publicized outside of law enforcement. The book did not
receive wide publication, due to a lawsuit by the widow
of McCoy - but it's still a detailed and compelling comparison
of the two cases. Here are some basic points covered:
Slightly-built McCoy was an ex-Green Beret and BYU police
science student.
. Both the Cooper and McCoy hijackings took place close to
holidays (when BYU students were out of school).
. The hijacker in each case sat in the same relative position
aboard the aircraft. Due to differences in the size of the
two 727s, the seats do not have the same seat numbers.
. Both hijackers were dressed the same (Cooper was also
believed to have thermal clothing on; McCoy ordered it to
be brought to the plane)
. Both wore large, wraparound sunglasses.
. Both were physically described in the same way (height,
relative weight, Cooper's wig "probable" and McCoy's
"definite." McCoy also looks like Cooper.
. Both used the same method to send the initial hijacking
message to the crew. Cooper ordered a stewardess to
take it forward. McCoy showed it to a passenger, who
then had the stewardess come back. In both hijackings,
these words were used: "Interphone", "air stairs" and
"azimuth."
. Each ordered 4 parachutes. Both were familiar with
military chutes and packing.
. Both tried to secure money to their bodies. When McCoy's
parachutes were delivered to the plane, he told them "You
should have known I'd need D-rings." McCoy didn't make
that mistake - he asked for them.
. The flight specs ordered by each hijacker were not only
nearly identical, but varied only according to the route (ie,
the mountainous Utah route elevation was higher).
.Cooper had lengthy discussions with the flight crew
about flight path/distance. McCoy gave detailed, typed-out
instructions that avoided that.
. Both ordered that all written materials be returned.
. Both Cooper and McCoy ahd passengers deplane using
the frontmost door of the plane.
. Both allowed at least one stewardess to leave.
. Both also had at least one stewardess stay in the
plane with them.
. Prior to jumping, Cooper ordered Mucklow into the
pilot's cabin; on the way, she closed the first-class curtain
and instructed and turned out all cabin lights. McCoy
ordered the same to be done.
. Cooper needed help getting the aft cabin door open and
the rear stairs down. The crew of McCoy's hijacked
flight did not have to assist McCoy.
. Cooper's flight was too short and had to circle. McCoy's
route was better-planned.
. Both inspected the money before the plane left the
runway.
. Both insisted a stewardess sit near to act as a
messenger. McCoy had the stewardess sit in
front of him, rather than next to him (an improvement,
as he could see her but she could not see him as
well).
. Both hijacked flight paths paralleled major north-
south freeways.
. The tie clasp identified to Cooper was also identified
as McCoy's.
Kris
GLC1173
>>My gut feeling always has been that >>D.B. Cooper was an FBI agent just
>>wanting to make Hoover look like a fool >>by giving in an unsolvable major
>>crime-and that he walked out of the >>woods with the rest of the search
party.
and replied:
>Sounds kind of far out don't you think? >Would you jump out the back of a 727
>to make someone look bad?
By the time Hoover died, lots of agents hated him; he was notorious for
exiling agents to miserable locations for the slightest provocation - real or
imagined.
My gut feeling is that the agent involved also had substantial jump
experience - as either a paratrooper or a smokejumper.
GLC1173
>Did anyone else ever read the book "The >Real McCoy"?
>Weeks after the Cooper incident, we had >a nearly-identical case here
>in Utah.....and the skydiver did live, >although later captured with
>thousands
>of dollars. The physical similarities >between "Cooper" and McCoy
>were amazing.
The Cooper case - like any widely-televised high-profile case, particularly
one who "got away with it" - bred all sorts of copycats. Another guy who
tried it died in an unsuccessful jump.
As for any similar physical description of the two men, I wouldn't read much
into it at all. Ask yourself what the most-likely suspect for such a
skyjacking would look like - and you are describing a burly
paratrooper/ex-paratrooper or smokejumper/ex-smokejumper, not a slightly-built
guy.
GLC1173
>Book: "D.B.Cooper - The Real McCoy"
>1991, University of Utah Press
>Out-of-print
>Written by two FBI investigators who >worked on the McCoy
>case (Calame and Rhoades). >Interestingly, the two cases
>mesh on more than 20 points...including >the fact that the
>later (successful) McCoy hijacking >actually improved on
>Cooper's methods -- many of which had >never been
>publicized outside of law enforcement. >The book did not
>receive wide publication, due to a lawsuit >by the widow
>of McCoy - but it's still a detailed and >compelling comparison
>of the two cases. Here are some basic >points covered:
>science student.
In 1970 - when Cooper did that skyjacking - the U.S. was full of current and
former Green Berets, due to the ongoing Vietnam War.
For the same reason, this country was awash in current and former Army
Rangers and other jump-qualified soldiers and veterans.
>Both the Cooper and McCoy hijackings >took place close to
>holidays (when BYU students were out of >school).
You're reading way too much into the college calendar - kids cut class all
the time.
(I know - because my father was a professor.)
>The hijacker in each case sat in the same >relative position
>aboard the aircraft. Due to differences in >the size of the
>two 727s, the seats do not have the same >seat numbers.
Was that even his choice?
Flights I've been on - then and now - give you very little if any choice.
>Both hijackers were dressed the same >(Cooper was also
>believed to have thermal clothing on; >McCoy ordered it to
>be brought to the plane)
Any jump-qualified military man or vet would know it's damn cold at the
altitude these jumps were from - particularly with the "wind" from the plane's
airspeed.
>Both wore large, wraparound sunglasses.
Again, look at it as a copycat crime.
Cooper's face was everywhere for awhile; that picture may have inspired
McCoy to use a similar disguise back in the days before contacts that gave you
different color eyes were readily available.
>Both were physically described in the >same way (height,
>relative weight, Cooper's wig "probable" >and McCoy's
>"definite."
Wigs are commonly worn by people wanting to disguise themselves - be they
intelligence operatives or felons. Nothing special here.
>In both hijackings,
>these words were used: "Interphone", "air >stairs" and
>"azimuth."
"Azimuth" is a common orienteering/navigation term; every Green Beret knows
it means a compass reading or direction.
> Each ordered 4 parachutes.
From the Cooper skyjacking, it was widely known that Cooper did that to
scare the hell out of any FBI agent thinking of giving him a defective chute -
by making the feds think he'd make a flight attendant jump with him!
>Both were familiar with
>military chutes and packing.
So were a lot of American men in 1970 - at the height of the Vietnam War.
>Both also had at least one stewardess >stay in the
>plane with them.
That was why the feds were scared shitless about sabotaging the chutes when
Cooper - and McCoy - each demanded four.
>Both hijacked flight paths paralleled major >north-
>south freeways.
Least important of all; once the plane is skyjacked, it goes where the
skyjacker wants!
Kris Baker
Oh, GLC1173!
My sincerest apologies to you!
I'm SO sorry! I didn't think I was so stupid - but obviously, I am.
How could someone like me *ever* aspire to posting an interesting
note about a crime on this newsgroup! I'm so shamed, I doubt
I'll ever be able to hold up my head in public!
You are so much more intelligent than I. Your powers of logic
far exceed anything that I should ever expect to attain. Your
inside knowledge of all crimes is something that I am truly
jealous of. Your are more attractive, you have more money, you
have a more interesting career path, you probably have a job
(unlike poor little me), and you're one of those people I wish
I were like. I shall, in the future, only post here with information
that agrees with yours.
Worshipping at your altar while awaiting further instructions -
Kris Baker
GLC1173 wrote in message <20000925015501...@ng-co1.aol.com>...
GLC1173
>Oh, GLC1173!
>My sincerest apologies to you!
>I'm SO sorry! I didn't think I was so >stupid - but obviously, I am.
Before getting smartalecky, ask yourself about a THIRD "parachute
skyjacking" that soon followed Cooper.
The THIRD guy died as a result of a bad jump; obviously he was not McCoy.
Publicity about Cooper was breeding wannabe copycats - and documentably so.
Kris Baker
GLC1173 wrote in message <20000925145341...@ng-cl1.aol.com>...
>Kris wrote:
>>Oh, GLC1173!
>>My sincerest apologies to you!
>>I'm SO sorry! I didn't think I was so >stupid - but obviously, I am.
> Before getting smartalecky, ask yourself about a THIRD "parachute
>skyjacking" that soon followed Cooper.
> The THIRD guy died as a result of a bad jump; obviously he was not
McCoy.
>Publicity about Cooper was breeding wannabe copycats - and documentably so.
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Yes, but I have no reason to discuss this with you any further.
You're merely trashing my ideas without giving specifics on
the case I was attempting to hold a discussion on.
I have been on Usenet for many years, and your reply to me
was the most demeaning I've ever received. I am so happy that
you are superior to me, being that your father was a professor.
Obviously, idiots like me would *never* figure out that college
kids occasionally skip class! Well, duh! Slap me on the forehead!
You taught me a lesson. Again, I thank you.
I am wrong. You are correct.
Kris
Eternally grateful
GLC1173
>I saw a documentary on Cooper recently >that showed footage of McCoy.
>The man was a dead ringer for the Cooper >composite, and he (McCoy) was
>a small, slightly-built man.
My closest non-Jewish friend recently retired from the State Bureau of
Investigation; he told me he never once in his career saw a composite that
actually really resembled the guy when he finally was arrested.
DedNdogYrs
I guess it's possible though since they never found his body.
Dogs & children first.
GLC1173
>If this guy were still alive wouldn't he have >bragged to somebody at some
>time?
> I guess it's possible though since they >never found his body.
Not necessarily. In fact, the kind of background that would have been most
useful for D.B. Cooper - a Green Beret or similar level in military then FBI
agent - would have weeded out the braggarts in advance.
My hunch is that he goes to one of the many "D.B. Cooper parties" in some
bar in the Northwest every year on the anniversary of the skyjacking - and
talks about nothing but current sports trivia or current politics.
Kris Baker
Elsie wrote:
>>I saw a documentary on Cooper recently that showed footage of
>>McCoy.
>>The man was a dead ringer for the Cooper composite, and he (McCoy)
>>was a small, slightly-built man.
Hi, Elsie -
I have several photos (McCoy AND the "Cooper composite.") I'll see
if I can get them scanned and upload them to a site so that others
can see them.
Kris