JBR: Det. Steve Thomas Speaks
Maggie
the murder--interesting, but I hope he has more than just that. From ABC News:
Ex-Detective Says JonBenét’s Mom
Wrote Ransom Note
April 9 — A former lead detective in the JonBenét Ramsey murder case says he
believes the murdered girl’s mother wrote the ransom note that was in the
family home the day her body was found.
In an interview airing Monday on ABC’s Good Morning America, Steve
Thomas, who resigned in protest of what he called the lack of aggressive
prosecution of the case, said Patsy Ramsey wrote the note.
Of 73 suspects whose writing samples were analyzed by experts, only Patsy
Ramsey could not be excluded as the note’s author, ABC quotes Thomas as saying.
ABC released a portion of the interview Saturday.
Did Mom’s Handwriting Change?
The body of 6-year-old JonBenét was found beaten and strangled in the basement
of the Ramsey home in Boulder on Dec. 26, 1996, about seven hours after the
rambling three-page note was found.
Thomas interrogated the Ramseys four months after the slaying and was a
lead detective until he resigned in August 1998, saying Boulder County District
Attorney Alex Hunter sacrificed procedure for politics.
Thomas has written a book called JonBenét: Inside the Ramsey Murder
Investigation. He is scheduled to appear on ABC programs this week to promote
it.
He said Patsy Ramsey changed her handwriting after the slaying.
“In the ransom note, almost exclusively the lowercase manuscript ‘a’ was
used I think 98 percent of the time,” ABC quotes Thomas as saying. “But what
was telling was that after the Ramseys were given a copy of the ransom note,
the lowercase manuscript ‘a’ almost disappeared entirely from Patsy’s
post-homicide writing.”
Samples of Patsy Ramsey’s writings before the murder contain a lowercase,
printed style of ‘a’s, Thomas said. He said she switched to a cursive style ‘a’
after JonBenet’s slaying.
No Grand Jury Indictment
The former detective also said the tear pattern of the ransom-note paper
matched Patsy Ramsey’s personal notepad, and that the felt-tip pen used to
write the note matched a pen found in a cup in the Ramseys’ kitchen.
A call to Ramsey attorney Hal Haddon was not returned Saturday.
Boulder officials have described the Ramseys as being under an umbrella of
suspicion in their daughter’s death, but nobody has been charged and a grand
jury ended a 13-month investigation last fall without an indictment.
Last month on CNN’s Larry King Live, Hunter said the ransom note remains a
key piece of evidence and that new analysis of the note could benefit the
ongoing investigation.
The Ramseys, who now live in Atlanta, have consistently denied any
involvement in their daughter’s death. They have written their own book and
have appeared on television programs recently to discuss aspects of it,
including their theory that an intruder killed JonBenét.
Maggie
"The real tragedy for Elian Gonzales is that he washed up on the shores of a
swing state in an election year."--Margaret Carlson
Teresa/Colorado
P.P.R.B.S.J. which stands for
Patsy Paugh Ramsey, Bachelor of Science in Journalism.
Teresa
Mother wrote note, Thomas says
Patsy Ramsey altered writing after JonBenet was slain, he tells ABC
By P. Solomon Banda
Associated Press
---------------------------------------------------
DENVER -- A former lead detective in the JonBenet Ramsey murder case says he
believes the mother of the slain girl wrote the ransom note that was in the
family home the day her daughter's body was found.
In an interview airing Monday on ABC's Good Morning America, Steve Thomas,
who resigned in protest of what he called the lack of aggressive prosecution
of the case, said Patsy Ramsey wrote the note.
Of 73 suspects whose writing samples were analyzed by experts along with the
note, only Patsy Ramsey could not be excluded as its author, ABC quotes
Thomas as saying. ABC released a portion of the interview Saturday.
The body of 6-year-old JonBenet was found beaten and strangled in the
basement of the Ramsey home in Boulder on Dec. 26, 1996, about seven hours
after the rambling three-page note was found.
Thomas interrogated the Ramseys four months after the slaying and was a lead
detective until he resigned in August 1998, saying Boulder County District
Attorney Alex Hunter sacrificed procedure for politics.
Thomas has written a book called JonBenet: Inside the Ramsey Murder
Investigation. He is scheduled to appear on ABC programs this week to
promote it.
He said Patsy Ramsey changed her handwriting after the slaying.
"In the ransom note, almost exclusively the lowercase manuscript a was used,
I think, 98 percent of the time," ABC quotes Thomas as saying. "But what was
telling was that after the Ramseys were given a copy of the ransom note, the
lowercase manuscript a almost disappeared entirely from Patsy's
post-homicide writing."
Writing samples from Ramsey's personal letters and notes she wrote before
the killing contain 732 manuscript a's that look like the lowercase
typewritten a, but they are written by hand, Thomas said. He said she
switched to a cursive a after JonBenet's slaying.
Thomas said the ransom note was signed "S.B.T.C." -- which stands for what
the note described as "a small foreign faction" that it said kidnapped
JonBenet for a $118,000 ransom.
Thomas said Ramsey often used acronyms. A Christmas note to a friend, for
example, was signed "P.P.R.B.S.J." -- which he said stood for Patsy Paugh
Ramsey, Bachelor of Science in Journalism.
The former detective also said the tear pattern of the ransom-note paper
matched Patsy Ramsey's personal note pad, and the felt-tip pen used to write
the note matched a pen found in a cup in the Ramseys' kitchen.
No fingerprints were found on the note, though Ramsey said she found it on
the back stairs. Police found the note on the hardwood floor, Thomas said.
A call to Ramsey attorney Hal Haddon was not returned Saturday.
In 1998, Thomas appeared on ABC's 20/20 program along with handwriting
analyst Donald Foster, who helped the FBI solve the Unabomber case. Foster
said he believes Ramsey wrote the ransom note based on punctuation and
indention styles.
Last month on CNN's Larry King Live, Hunter said the ransom note remains a
key piece of evidence and that new analysis of the note could benefit the
ongoing investigation.
John and Patsy Ramsey, who now live in Atlanta, have consistently denied any
involvement in their daughter's death. They have written their own book and
have appeared on television programs recently to discuss aspects of it,
including their theory that an intruder killed JonBenet.
April 9, 2000
Teresa/Colorado
Book lays blame on Patsy
By Karen Augé and Marilyn Robinson
Denver Post Staff Writers
April 10 - On Dec. 26, 1996, John Ramsey "woke up a completely innocent man,
a deer in the headlights," a former Boulder detective believes.
But Steve Thomas, who resigned in August 1998 after investigating JonBenét
Ramsey's death for nearly 20 months, is convinced that the instant John
Ramsey read a three-page ransom note a few minutes later, he knew with
absolute certainty that his wife was involved in whatever had happened to
their daughter.
"I think he saw everything but her signature on that note," Thomas said in
an interview with The Denver Post last week.
And from that moment on, John has protected Patsy Ramsey with an armada of
attorneys and with his own silence, Thomas said.
Thomas shot onto the national radar with a blistering, bridge-burning
resignation letter that lamented a botched investigation and accused Boulder
District Attorney Alex Hunter of cozying up to attorneys for the Ramseys and
"thoroughly compromising" the case.
And now, the 38-year-old former detective steps back into the spotlight as
he joins a long list of people who've written books and posited theories
about the still-unsolved death of the 6-year-old beauty queen.
But Thomas' book, "JonBenét: Inside the Ramsey Murder Investigation," is
different from the shelves full of books that try to peek behind the
curtains of a seriously troubled investigation to reveal what happened to
the little girl.
His tell-all is told from the inside looking out.
And that's what is creating an uproar. Even though the book doesn't go on
sale until Tuesday, early media reports already have prompted Hunter - who
has not read it - to publicly defend his office and jab back at Thomas.
In his book, Thomas does what no one officially connected to the case has
done - although Gov. Bill Owens has come close - he names names. Or rather,
names one name.
By page 13, there is no doubt who Thomas thinks killed JonBenét: "- ... the
little girl was killed by a family member, whom I believe to have been her
panicked mother, Patsy Ramsey, and that her father, John Ramsey, opted to
protect his wife in the investigation that followed." In later chapters, he
sketches his version of what happened to JonBenét:
After a long day that included an argument with her daughter over what
JonBenét would wear to Christmas dinner, Patsy Ramsey, harried and irritated
about getting ready for a holiday trip she didn't really want to make, and
distraught over her upcoming 40th birthday, found that the child had wet her
bed - again.
Thomas contends that as she cleaned up after JonBenét's accident, Patsy
Ramsey wiped her daughter too roughly - which he believes accounts for the
appearance of sexual abuse, and "there was some sort of explosive encounter
in the child's bathroom ... I believed JonBenét was slammed against a hard
surface, such as the edge of the tub, inflicting a mortal head wound." Then
the former Miss West Virginia panicked, Thomas theorizes. And Patsy Ramsey
cooked up the whole kidnapping, wrote the ransom note, tied cord - loosely,
according to Thomas - around JonBenét's wrists, wrapped a cord around the
child's neck and put tape over her mouth, then carefully wrapped her in a
blanket to cover up what Thomas believes initially was an accident.
He dismisses as absurd the Ramseys' argument, which they make in their own
book, "The Death of Innocence," that Boulder police never looked for other
suspects.
"Cops don't huddle up and say, 'Let's not get the killer, let's frame
so-and-so,' " he said.
The Ramseys have maintained their innocence, saying the Boulder cops pegged
them as suspects early in the case and never looked elsewhere.
One of the suspects Thomas said he looked at thoroughly, and eliminated as
the killer, was John Ramsey. Initially investigators thought Ramsey had been
molesting his daughter, but "there was no pathology, no personality, no
history and no evidence indicating any history" that he ever molested any of
his children, or anyone else's, Thomas said.
Thomas believes, though, that John Ramsey did lie about when he found
JonBenét's body in the basement of the family's home. Ramsey was unaccounted
for, according to Linda Arndt, the only detective on the scene at the time,
for about an hour the morning of Dec. 26.
"Frankly, I think that's when he found the body," Thomas said last week.
Later, when Arndt asked Ramsey and former family friend Fleet White to
search the house again, Ramsey "made a beeline" for the tiny dark room where
his daughter's body lay.
Thomas said Ramsey's son, John Andrew Ramsey, told investigators his father
told him that day that he had found JonBenét's body at 11 a.m. It was after
1 p.m. when Ramsey carried JonBenét's body from the basement.
But why would a man protect anyone, even a wife, who had killed his child?
"He'd already lost his eldest daughter," Thomas said, referring to Beth
Ramsey, a daughter from John's first marriage, who died in a car accident.
"Now he's lost his youngest daughter. Was he then going to lose a spouse
too?" The key evidence to back his theory, Thomas said last week, are the
key components of the ransom note: the pen, the pad, the handwriting, the
linguistics. All, he insists, belonged to Patsy Ramsey.
But throughout the book and throughout nearly two hours of conversation,
it's clear Thomas also found the Ramseys' behavior odd. And he admits that's
not enough to convict anyone. "Behavior is not something you can take into
court and say, 'They acted funny, they're guilty.' " Of the Ramseys, he
said: "If they're innocent, they did the greatest disservice by not
cooperating." He contends most of the investigation team agrees with his
findings. "I'm not the lone voice on this. The FBI supported us, the police
department supported us, with the exception of Linda Arndt.
"Lou's the lone voice on this." Lou Smit, the Colorado Springs detective
Hunter coaxed out of retirement to work on the case, believes an intruder
killed JonBenét - just as passionately as Thomas believes Patsy Ramsey did
it.
"He's the best defense witness in the world," Thomas said of Smit. Despite
their polar-opposite views on the case, he considers Smit a wise man. "I
take nothing away from Lou. I like Lou."
Thomas treats Smit relatively well, but elsewhere, his 353-page book seethes
with anger - anger at the Ramseys, at DA Hunter and several of Hunter's
lieutenants, and at the top brass within his own department.
While other accounts of the investigation have offered glimpses of the
animosity between the Boulder police and Hunter's office, Thomas exposes an
all-out war.
Relations between the two got so bad that police copied their case files in
a secret, midnight raid and then hid them. They kept bits of evidence hidden
from the DA's office out of fear that it would be passed along to what
Thomas unfailingly refers to as "team Ramsey." Hunter called it "absolutely
flabbergasting" that Thomas would write a book.
"I have just never heard of a detective writing a book when you have an
ongoing case, a viable case in progress," Hunter said Sunday.
"This is just pure and simple blood money." But Thomas said writing the book
was not about money. He called it "a story that should be told." However,
Hunter said Sunday the book will damage Thomas' credibility as a witness if
the case goes to trial.
"This guy is toast," the DA said. "I hope the public sees it for what it
is."
Thomas doesn't spare his own former department, either.
Thomas paints a picture of an only-in-Boulder police department, where
former Chief Tom Koby spouts Zen philosophy but doesn't care much for
hard-nosed police work; where there is no money for clerical help to relieve
overworked, stressed-out detectives, but plenty of funding for unsolicited
emotional counseling; where Koby tells investigators to cut back on overtime
expenses then hands out certificates for massages to command officers.
Thomas's books also reveals that several detectives wanted to bug the
Ramseys' Atlanta home with help from Georgia officials, but ultimately
Beckner vetoed the idea.
As he nears the book's conclusion, Thomas sums up his feelings by saying,
"When the police botched the crime scene, they damaged the Ramsey case. When
the district attorney's office started making deals, they lost it."
Police Chief Mark Beckner declined comment Sunday.
"I'd rather just stay out of it," he said.
But talking about his book and the case last week, Thomas admitted that with
the evidence police and prosecutors have now, it would be almost impossible
to convict anyone for the crime.
"Beyond a reasonable doubt is such a incredible threshold in this day and
age, particularly if the defendant is wealthy," he said.
There is still in Thomas a bit of the idealistic kid who looked at the
uniformed, spit-shined cop who came to speak at his school in Arkansas and
thought "look at this hero. If I could emulate someone like that...- . " And
for the remnants of that child, life after law enforcement can be tough.
"I miss the hell out of police work," he said. He still follows the case
closely in the media - and like most of his former colleagues, he says,
still regularly checks in with Mrs. Brady, the suburban Philadelphia woman
whose Web site is the ultimate clearinghouse of information about the Ramsey
case.
Still, Thomas insists he's not looking back. "I think it's time to move on
to the next chapter of my life," he said.
The most immediate chapter includes the usual round of interviews, promoting
his book.
After that, it's probably back to the construction business he and another
former police officer, Todd Spears, operate.
His police career is but one of many casualties of the Ramsey investigation.
Arndt, detective Cmdr. John Eller and Koby all left the Boulder Police
Department as a result of fallout from the case. And with the exception of
Eller, who now works for a police agency in Florida, all have left law
enforcement entirely.
Quietly, and almost always off the record, a few of Thomas' former law
enforcement colleagues have criticized him for writing the book - for
exposing the inner workings of the investigation and for profiting from it.
Thomas says he expected that and doesn't regret his decision to write about
the case.
He wouldn't say whether his account is based on his own notes or case files.
And what is it he wants the public to gain from that telling?
"I want them to look at the facts of the case and make their own decisions
about what went on in Boulder ... I hope readers share the same frustration
I felt when I left a career that I loved."
RAMSEY BOOKS
Nearly a dozen books have been published about the JonBenét Ramsey case.
Here's a sampling:
- "JonBenét: Inside the Murder Investigation," by former Boulder police
Detective Steve Thomas and Don Davis. It goes on sale Tuesday.
- "Death of Innocence," by John and Patsy Ramsey
- "Perfect Murder, Perfect Town," by Lawrence Schiller
- "Who Killed JonBenét Ramsey? A Leading Forensic Expert Uncovers the
Shocking Facts," by Cyril H. Wecht, Charles Bosworth Jr.
- "A Mother Gone Bad: The Hidden Confession of JonBenét's Killer," by Andrew
G. Hodges
- "A Little Girl's Dream? A JonBenét Ramsey Story," by Eleanor Von Duyke and
Dwight Wallington
- "Presumed Guilty: An Investigation into the JonBenét Ramsey case, the
Media and the Culture of Pornography," by Stephen Singular
- "JonBenét's Mother: The Tragedy and the Truth!" by Linda Edison McLean
- "Death of a Little Princess: The Tragic Story of the Murder of JonBenét
Ramsey," by Carlton Smith
- "JonBenét's Gift: A Miracle for the Millennium," by Jane Gray Stobie
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
JonBenet's grave 'bugged'
By Karen Augé and Marilyn Robinson
Denver Post Staff Writers
April 10 - Boulder police detectives rigged a Georgia cemetery with a camera
and a recording device, hoping for a graveside confession in the JonBenét
Ramsey case.
The confession never came.
As what would have been JonBenét Ramsey's 7th birthday approached - Aug. 6,
1997 - Boulder police Detectives Steve Thomas and Ron Gosage sneaked off to
Atlanta, hoping a guiltridden killer would visit the grave at St. James
Episcopal Cemetery in Marietta, Ga., and confess.
Thomas and Gosage maneuvered around Boulder District Attorney Alex Hunter's
office and got warrants through the Georgia Bureau of Investigation for
cameras and listening devices.
In his new book, "JonBenét: Inside the Ramsey Murder Investigation," Thomas
writes that the two decided to go through the GBI "because we were afraid to
let our own DA's office know what we were doing."
In December 1997, near the first anniversary of JonBenét's death, they went
back to the grave, this time with recording equipment hidden in a Home Depot
mantelpiece that a film special-effects company had converted to a
tombstone.
Thomas, Gosage and GBI agent John Lang planted the "tombstone" not far from
JonBenét's grave and watched and listened for days as sightseers and
self-appointed experts in the case trooped past JonBenét's grave, a horde of
media capturing it all.
At one point, a little boy wandered over to the fake headstone, kicked it,
and according to Thomas' account, yelled out "Hey, this is made of wood!"
The girl's parents, John and Patsy Ramsey, did not visit the grave, he said.
They have maintained their innocence and believe an intruder killed their
daughter.
Maggie
***I'm suing this guy for plagiarism.
Lady Taker
>
>Maggie
Witness!
Volfie -> always wanted to be in a high-profile court case
je
that does not match any of the family members, might just be more
definitive than the less than scientific evidence of the note. I have
yet to know of any female, who can produce semen.
Patty
> Teresa posted a news story:
Maggie wrote:
> ***I'm suing this guy for plagiarism.
What about the duct tape on the mouth?
From ABC News: Evidence includes duct tape that Ramsey said he found
across his daughter's mouth. The autopsy found no sign of skin damage
around the girl's mouth, though ripping tape off would normally cause
skin marks.
Did she put the duct tape on JBR's mouth after she was dead? And where
did the duct tape go. In their book, they say the police searched the
house thoroughly and couldn't find it, even checking the ashes in the
fireplace, saying they didn't match. Can you check ashes to know
exactly what was burned?
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Maggie
>>***I'm suing this guy for plagiarism.
volfie said:
>Witness!
>
>Volfie -> always wanted to be in a high-profile court case
***Great. I have some gloves I need you to try on.
Maggie < chipping golf balls
Maggie
***Who said it was semen?
Lady Taker
I'd love to. First let me pound my hands on a cinderblock wall all night and
then forget my arthritis meds. Oh, and can I wear some Playtex Rubber Gloves
(x-thick for heavy duty) to protect my fragile skin from boo-boos that might be
inflicted by the sharp leather and acid lining of the gloves?
Volfie -> sharpening knives and dripping blood
Lady Taker
>libtoo said:
>>It would seem that the DNA found in Jon Benets underwear from Semen,
BZZZZZZZZZZZT!! WRONG! You have just the two-hundred dollar round!
Volfie -> pity
JIM FILZ
>***I'm suing this guy for plagiarism.
******** I think you have a hell of a lot better case than Thomas does.
TenThousandWaves
>>
>>libtoo said:
>>>It would seem that the DNA found in Jon Benets underwear from Semen,
The source of the DNA was not identified. Could be because it was a degraded
sample or because a match hasn't been found. DNA exists in all plants and
animals. A dog's saliva contains DNA just as semen does. Laundry detergent can
contain DNA, as can glues made from animals. There are two sets of unidentified
DNA in the Ramsey case. Obtained from her underwear and under her fingernails.
I don't know if it's possible to identify it as human DNA, at a minimum, but
their source remains unknown as of this date.
Maggie
>
>>***I'm suing this guy for plagiarism.
>
>******** I think you have a hell of a lot better case than Thomas does.
***LOL.
Patty
Teresa posted a story from the Denver Post:
: After a long day that included an argument with her daughter over what
: JonBenét would wear to Christmas dinner, Patsy Ramsey, harried and
irritated
: about getting ready for a holiday trip she didn't really want to make, and
: distraught over her upcoming 40th birthday, found that the child had wet
her
: bed - again.
:
: Thomas contends that as she cleaned up after JonBenét's accident, Patsy
: Ramsey wiped her daughter too roughly - which he believes accounts for the
: appearance of sexual abuse, and "there was some sort of explosive
encounter
: in the child's bathroom ... I believed JonBenét was slammed against a hard
: surface, such as the edge of the tub, inflicting a mortal head wound."
Then
: the former Miss West Virginia panicked, Thomas theorizes. And Patsy Ramsey
: cooked up the whole kidnapping, wrote the ransom note, tied cord -
loosely,
: according to Thomas - around JonBenét's wrists, wrapped a cord around the
: child's neck and put tape over her mouth, then carefully wrapped her in a
: blanket to cover up what Thomas believes initially was an accident.
If the scream was from the bathroom, wouldn't John and Burke had heard it?
Could the scream be from Patsy after knowing what she had done?
je
EDTA which is a preservative. I don't see how dog saliva could contain
semen. It would contain the saliva components including dog DNA. Since
they have been able to compare the DNA sample to several others, it has
been processed. There is no question of degradation. They just don't
have anyone to compare it to. They have compared it to the fathers and
all the brothers. They are rulled out. Until they have a viable
suspect, they won't know who it belongs to. Unfortunately, they may
only be found if they commit another murder and are caught. The DNA
under the finger nails is not so conclusive as it could have come from
someone at the party. But would come important, if it is someone that
she was not in contact with prior to the murder.
shar...@mindspring.com
(TenThousandWaves) wrote:
Sounds like a job for a nucular enjineer to me.
Merc
>
>Teresa posted a story from the Denver Post:
>: After a long day that included an argument with her daughter over what
>: JonBenét would wear to Christmas dinner, Patsy Ramsey, harried and
>irritated
>: about getting ready for a holiday trip she didn't really want to make, and
>: distraught over her upcoming 40th birthday, found that the child had wet
>her
>: bed - again.
>:
>: Thomas contends that as she cleaned up after JonBenét's accident, Patsy
>: Ramsey wiped her daughter too roughly - which he believes accounts for the
>: appearance of sexual abuse, and "there was some sort of explosive
>encounter
>: in the child's bathroom ... I believed JonBenét was slammed against a hard
>: surface, such as the edge of the tub, inflicting a mortal head wound."
>Then
>: the former Miss West Virginia panicked, Thomas theorizes. And Patsy Ramsey
>: cooked up the whole kidnapping, wrote the ransom note, tied cord -
>loosely,
>: according to Thomas - around JonBenét's wrists, wrapped a cord around the
>: child's neck and put tape over her mouth, then carefully wrapped her in a
>: blanket to cover up what Thomas believes initially was an accident.
>:
>
>
>If the scream was from the bathroom, wouldn't John and Burke had heard it?
No ..... which is why intruders are so successful at entering premises
while their victims sleep and unbeknown to them - the intruder
watches a little tele and gets a bite to eat - and which also explains
why the Ramseys did not wake up when the intruder entered their house
and killed JBR.
Merc
Maggie
***The DNA in JBR's undies has not been identified as semen.
TenThousandWaves
Sharon... >Sounds like a job for a nucular enjineer to me.
That shows how much you know.... not much.
Rhonda
> On Mon, 10 Apr 2000 19:27:29 -0700, "Patty" <er...@waa.com> wrote:
>
> snip?
>
> No ..... which is why intruders are so successful at entering premises
> while their victims sleep and unbeknown to them - the intruder
> watches a little tele and gets a bite to eat - and which also explains
> why the Ramseys did not wake up when the intruder entered their house
> and killed JBR.
Which also explains the pinapple! Maybe the intruder ate it! The only reason
JBR's fingerprints were on the bowl was because she was helping dry the dishes
the prior night before !!!
(yeah.. thats the ticket!)
>
>
> Merc
>
> >Could the scream be from Patsy after knowing what she had done?
> >
--
Y2K? Because *one* K just isn't enough.
Rhonda
the person that owned the panties?)
je wrote:
> I don't see how laundry detergent could contain DNA. It does contain
> EDTA which is a preservative. I don't see how dog saliva could contain
> semen. It would contain the saliva components including dog DNA. Since
> they have been able to compare the DNA sample to several others, it has
> been processed. There is no question of degradation. They just don't
> have anyone to compare it to. They have compared it to the fathers and
> all the brothers. They are rulled out. Until they have a viable
> suspect, they won't know who it belongs to. Unfortunately, they may
> only be found if they commit another murder and are caught. The DNA
> under the finger nails is not so conclusive as it could have come from
> someone at the party. But would come important, if it is someone that
> she was not in contact with prior to the murder.
--
Rhonda
(yeah.. thats the ticket!)
--
Martha <Helena Troy >
>
> Merc wrote:
>
> > On Mon, 10 Apr 2000 19:27:29 -0700, "Patty" <er...@waa.com> wrote:
> >
> > snip?
> >
> > No ..... which is why intruders are so successful at entering premises
> > while their victims sleep and unbeknown to them - the intruder
> > watches a little tele and gets a bite to eat - and which also explains
> > why the Ramseys did not wake up when the intruder entered their house
> > and killed JBR.
>
> Which also explains the pinapple! Maybe the intruder ate it! The only reason
> JBR's fingerprints were on the bowl was because she was helping dry the dishes
> the prior night before !!!
>
> (yeah.. thats the ticket!)
It's not JBR's fingerprints that are the problem--it's the stomach
contents. Otherwise, I think you're onto something.
JBR's fingerprints weren't found on the bowl; only Patsy's and Burke's.
Martha
Martha <Helena Troy >
>
> Wasn't the panties too big for her? Maybe it was someone elses DNA? (Like
> the person that owned the panties?)
If what we read in the tabloids is true, the underpants she was found in
were from a package of Bloomies Days of the Week pants size 14 that
Patsy had bought for a niece. JBR wore size 6. According to the story,
JBR begged her mother not to give the bigger pants away, to save them
for JBR, so they were put away in a drawer in JBR's bathroom. I'd like
to know if this story is true, and if the remaining size 14s were found.
Martha
Rhonda
Maybe the intruder force fed her pineapple!! Thats why there were no finger prints
on the bowl..
Rhonda
more then one place although I can't remember where, that the panties were
larger then her size..
I would like to know if the tabloid story is true as well. Who gave the
information about the panties, and how did they know? I think the Rams woulda
sued the pants of the enquirer (or whoever) if it was not true though.. :)
"Martha
--
Teresa/Colorado
> Rhonda wrote:
> >
> > Merc wrote:
> >
> > > On Mon, 10 Apr 2000 19:27:29 -0700, "Patty" <er...@waa.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > snip?
> > >
> > > No ..... which is why intruders are so successful at entering premises
> > > while their victims sleep and unbeknown to them - the intruder
> > > watches a little tele and gets a bite to eat - and which also explains
> > > why the Ramseys did not wake up when the intruder entered their house
> > > and killed JBR.
> >
> > Which also explains the pinapple! Maybe the intruder ate it! The only
reason
> > JBR's fingerprints were on the bowl was because she was helping dry the
dishes
> > the prior night before !!!
> >
> > (yeah.. thats the ticket!)
>
> It's not JBR's fingerprints that are the problem--it's the stomach
> contents. Otherwise, I think you're onto something.
>
> JBR's fingerprints weren't found on the bowl; only Patsy's and Burke's.
>
> Martha
In July of 1997, the police returned to the scene of the crime, the
Ramsey home. In his book, Steve Thomas recalls a room next to
the kitchen, called the breakfast room. He describes the table there and
then:
<quote>
It was on that table that police had found the porcelain bowl containing
fresh pineapple and bearing the fingerprints of Patsy and Burke. To me,
that connected Patsy to pineapple, and pineapple was found in JonBenét's
stomach, and one plus one equals two. I came to believe that Patsy had
given JonBenét pineapple that night.
Our experts studied the pineapple in the stomach and reported that
it was fresh-cut pineapple, consistent down to the rind with what had
been found in the bowl. It was solid proof that it wasn't canned pine-
apple, and what were the chances that an intruder would have brought
in a fresh pineapple to cut up for his victim?
<unquote>
Veddy interestink!
Teresa
Martha <Helena Troy >
>
> Hrmm.. Yeah, I think I read that tabloid story.. but I thought I had heard in
> more then one place although I can't remember where, that the panties were
> larger then her size..
>
> I would like to know if the tabloid story is true as well. Who gave the
> information about the panties, and how did they know? I think the Rams woulda
> sued the pants of the enquirer (or whoever) if it was not true though.. :)
Oh, I don't think the Ramsey's are going to sue anyone on their own
behalf because that would mean answering questions under oath.
What I'd like to know is where are the size 6 "Wednesday" pants JBR
started out the day with? Or did she start the day in the big
underpants?
Martha
Maggie
>In July of 1997, the police returned to the scene of the crime, the
>Ramsey home. In his book, Steve Thomas recalls a room next to
>the kitchen, called the breakfast room. He describes the table there and
>then:
>
><quote>
>It was on that table that police had found the porcelain bowl containing
>fresh pineapple and bearing the fingerprints of Patsy and Burke. To me,
>that connected Patsy to pineapple, and pineapple was found in JonBenét's
>stomach, and one plus one equals two. I came to believe that Patsy had
>given JonBenét pineapple that night.
>
>Our experts studied the pineapple in the stomach and reported that
>it was fresh-cut pineapple, consistent down to the rind with what had
>been found in the bowl. It was solid proof that it wasn't canned pine-
>apple, and what were the chances that an intruder would have brought
>in a fresh pineapple to cut up for his victim?
><unquote>
>
>Veddy interestink!
***I think this may be where Thomas shows his inexperience. Unless someone
tells me that Patsy *never* unloaded the dishwasher, *of course* her
fingerprints were on that bowl. My fingerprints are on (or should be on) every
single dish in my entire house.
Sprucedale
"Teresa/Colorado" <ctf...@home.com> wrote in message
news:4J2J4.39475$x65.3...@news1.rdc2.tx.home.com...
> In July of 1997, the police returned to the scene of the crime, the
> Ramsey home. In his book, Steve Thomas recalls a room next to
> the kitchen, called the breakfast room. He describes the table there and
> then:
>
> <quote>
> It was on that table that police had found the porcelain bowl containing
> fresh pineapple and bearing the fingerprints of Patsy and Burke. To me,
> that connected Patsy to pineapple, and pineapple was found in JonBenét's
> stomach, and one plus one equals two. I came to believe that Patsy had
> given JonBenét pineapple that night.
>
> Our experts studied the pineapple in the stomach and reported that
> it was fresh-cut pineapple, consistent down to the rind with what had
> been found in the bowl. It was solid proof that it wasn't canned pine-
> apple, and what were the chances that an intruder would have brought
> in a fresh pineapple to cut up for his victim?
> <unquote>
>
> Veddy interestink!
>
> Teresa
>
>
>
eve
fingerprints on the ransom note. Thomas said that he could not
get John or Pat to tell him if they ever picked up the pages
when they were first discovered. I can imagine right when they
were asked that, which as I understood was that day of Dec. 26,
the Ramseys both thought, oops I didn't plan on anyone asking
that. Any way, if they did not touch the ransom note,
presumably it would be taken that the intruder did leave the
note with a gloved hand. The problem is, wouldn't any parent of
a just kidnapped or threatened child, grab the note to read it
VERY carefully in full light? If you were the one to author
the note, no, you would want someone else to leave fingerprints
on it.
Eve
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Amanda
John:
"Did she(Patsy) show you the note on the landing?"
"I don't remember."
He said he grabbed it and laid it on the floor to better read it "really fast
without having to sit and read it." The visual image was disturbing to me. Why
spread such an important document on the floor, which meant he would have had to
get down on his hands and knees to read it? And if he grabbed it, as he said,
why weren't his fingerprints on the note? His answers only reinforced the
mystery.
Amanda
Merc
>Actually, John said that he touched it. From page 171, Thomas interviewing
>John:
>
>"Did she(Patsy) show you the note on the landing?"
>"I don't remember."
>He said he grabbed it and laid it on the floor to better read it "really fast
>without having to sit and read it." The visual image was disturbing to me. Why
>spread such an important document on the floor, which meant he would have had to
>get down on his hands and knees to read it? And if he grabbed it, as he said,
>why weren't his fingerprints on the note? His answers only reinforced the
>mystery.
>
LOL - If I had just discovered that my daughter might have been
kidnapped - I would be shacking at he knees - I reckon, I too, would
drop to my knees - straightaway, wherever I was standing.
I cannot understand why anyone would view this act so strange!
IMO, Thomas sounds like a disgusting oppositionist!
Merc
Teresa/Colorado
> Teresa said:
> >In July of 1997, the police returned to the scene of the crime, the
> >Ramsey home. In his book, Steve Thomas recalls a room next to
> >the kitchen, called the breakfast room. He describes the table there and
> >then:
> >
> ><quote>
> >It was on that table that police had found the porcelain bowl containing
> >fresh pineapple and bearing the fingerprints of Patsy and Burke. To me,
> >that connected Patsy to pineapple, and pineapple was found in JonBenét's
> >stomach, and one plus one equals two. I came to believe that Patsy had
> >given JonBenét pineapple that night.
> >
> >Our experts studied the pineapple in the stomach and reported that
> >it was fresh-cut pineapple, consistent down to the rind with what had
> >been found in the bowl. It was solid proof that it wasn't canned pine-
> >apple, and what were the chances that an intruder would have brought
> >in a fresh pineapple to cut up for his victim?
> ><unquote>
> >
> >Veddy interestink!
>
someone
> tells me that Patsy *never* unloaded the dishwasher, *of course* her
> fingerprints were on that bowl. My fingerprints are on (or should be on)
every
> single dish in my entire house.
>
> Maggie
I agree, Maggie. Patsy's fingerprints were probably on every bowl and glass
in her house. But, the bowl of pineapple didn't just hop out of the
refrigerator
by itself. If an intruder had gotten it out of the refrigerator, he/she
would have
left his/her prints on the bowl unless he/she wore gloves. And, why would
an
intruder, intent on kidnapping or sexual assault and/or murder get out a
bowl
of pineapple from the refrigerator to feed his victim and then several hours
later, after the pineapple made it's way to her intestine, kill her? If
nothing else,
it's evidence of one of Patsy's lies. In her statements to police, she says
that
JonBenét was put right to bed and did not have pineapple to eat that night.
But, the bowl was found on the table with Patsy's and Burke's fingerprints
on it. Obviously, one of them put it there, despite her protestations.
Teresa
Maggie
>I agree, Maggie. Patsy's fingerprints were probably on every bowl and glass
>in her house. But, the bowl of pineapple didn't just hop out of the
>refrigerator
>by itself. If an intruder had gotten it out of the refrigerator, he/she
>would have
>left his/her prints on the bowl unless he/she wore gloves. And, why would
>an
>intruder, intent on kidnapping or sexual assault and/or murder get out a
>bowl
>of pineapple from the refrigerator to feed his victim and then several hours
>later, after the pineapple made it's way to her intestine, kill her? If
>nothing else,
>it's evidence of one of Patsy's lies. In her statements to police, she
>says
>that
>JonBenét was put right to bed and did not have pineapple to eat that night.
>But, the bowl was found on the table with Patsy's and Burke's fingerprints
>on it. Obviously, one of them put it there, despite her protestations.
***Even if I believed an intruder was in the house that night (and I don't),
there's no reason to assume he would have had to get the bowl of pineapple out.
Everyone seems to agree that Burke was awake after they got home and
9-year-old boys are notorious for failing to return things to the 'fridge, so
my bet's on him (why else would his prints be there?).
And I don't understand your last few sentences about Patsy's lies. I think
Patsy killed JBR, but at the same time I think it's entirely possible she's
telling the absolute truth about the pineapple. Why would she lie about it?
We know JBR wasn't killed right after she ate it. If JBR came down and got
some pineapple, then went back to bed (which is almost certainly what
happened), I think Patsy would have just said so if she knew about it. But the
house is large and Patsy probably didn't even hear JBR creep down for her
snack. At any rate, the pineapple had a couple of hours to digest before the
real drama began that night.