Jennifer Hagel-Smith on CBS tonight.
Beth W
at 10pm central time on CBS.
My theory is this: She was having sex with the 3 drunk men they chose
to drink and party with. Her husband either found them or had a change
of heart and became angry. The 3 men killed him.
Jennifers account of what she recalls is a cover up. Because she does
not want to admit she was having sex with 3 or more men at once. There
is also a possibility she was being videotaped during the sex acts.
She is lying to avoid being known as a major slut or whore.
robbielynn
sex with three men part
but I think she went off
with someone, maybe
Casino manager.
I don't believe her amnesia
story at all.
earthage
Apr 7, 2006 8:42 pm US/Pacific
New Details Emerge In Cruise Mystery
Father Of One Of Suspects Talks To CBS' 48 Hours
(CBS) Ever since honeymooner George Smith vanished under mysterious
circumstances from the cruise ship "Brilliance of the Seas," suspicion
has been focused on four young men seen with Smith in the hours before
he disappeared.
Now, the father of one of those men - Dr. Jerry Askin, father of Josh
Askin, a college student from California - is breaking his silence on
the case in an exclusive interview with 48 Hours, this Saturday, April
8 at 10 p.m. ET/PT.
Dr. Askin was an eyewitness as his son and the others were interrogated
by Turkish authorities. He shares details of his family's strange and
frightening ordeal in an interview with correspondent Hannah Storm.
48 Hours has also obtained never-before-seen videotape of Turkish
authorities questioning the young men on board the ship. In the
exclusive tape, shot by Dr. Askin, the boys recount their final moments
with Smith.
They tell Turkish police that they escorted a drunken Smith back to his
cabin and left him on his bed, saying, "End of story, end of story,
that was it. Never saw him again." The young men also told Turkish
authorities Smith's wife, Jennifer Hagel Smith, was nowhere to be
found.
The video also provides a revealing look at one of the young men, Rusty
Kofman, who expresses shock when he's told that blood was found on the
ship's overhang. Kofman's jaw drops when he is told the news. He says,
"No ... oh my God. That's crazy."
While watching the video, Storm comments to Dr. Askin, "[Rusty] looks
absolutely shocked by this."
"I believe he was," replies Dr. Askin.
Dr. Askin tells Storm the young men were questioned a second time at a
Turkish police station.
Dr. Askin provided 48 Hours with a videotape of Josh's second
interrogation. When Josh believes Turkish authorities might suspect
Smith's wife in his disappearance, Josh tells police, "She has no idea
what happened .... I'm not letting her go to jail."
Josh then insists that investigators interview a casino manager, Lloyd
Botha. Some say Botha was one of the last people to be seen with
Jennifer before she was discovered slumped over in a ship's corridor.
Ship personnel found her right about the time her husband is believed
to have gone overboard.
Dr. Askin was also one of the first people to speak to Jennifer
immediately after she was told that her husband of 10 days was presumed
overboard. Dr. Askin tells Storm that when he asked Jennifer to explain
what had happened that night, she said, "I just ... I can't remember."
He adds, "It was almost like her mind went blank."
Nine months after George Smith vanished, there have been no arrests.
Was he murdered or was it a terrible accident? 48 Hours constructs the
timeline of events leading up to Smith's disappearance and examines the
possible scenarios.
K B
were accused of rape by a female passenger 3 days later. They
videotaped it. The ship says the video shows a willing girl. hmm.
Maybe Jennifer was willing to have sex with them also and doesn't want
her video getting out.
Jennifer is very pretty. Also a teacher. Any sex scandel would ruin her
teaching career.
Savant
True, though that is not fair to ANYONE, let alone this woman that a
sex scandal would ruin her career.
There is another possibility for the amnesia that she has about the
events. Special K, GHB, or another date-rape drug, that ruins the short
and long term memory of a person until they wear off.
A person can appear to be totally willing and lucid while under the
influence of these drugs, but are ACTUALLY caught in a dream-world like
state. That's at least how one man who used GHB as a party drug said it
felt, and he could never remember ANYTHING that happened while he was
high on the drug.
They should have done a drug test to see if she had these drugs in her
system (Ketamine and GHB can show up for 2 days after they are
ingested).
Kathy
> Bet...@webtv.net (Beth W) wrote in news:13190-443862D8-390@storefull-
> 3236.bay.webtv.net:
> I doubt she can remember anything, by all accounts she was completely
> hammered and the ship's video camera's have a partial trace of where she
> was that evening.
>
> I doubt Greg Smith was murdered. He was hammered and probably riled up.
> I've seen guys do some incredibly idiotic things while drunk, including
> trying to jump down three stories.
After watching the 48 Hours piece last night, I agree. The young men
with him said he fell in the casino and could have gotten some kind of
cut which would account for the small amount of blood found in the room.
As for Jennifer, I also think that, drunk off her ass, she went to
some employees room and is too embarrassed to admit it. I'm sorry for
the family, who are convinced that someone is getting away with murder.
They will probably never have peace.
Kathy
>
> I'm beginning to think there really wasn't any murder at all, just a
> very, very drunk man.
>
>
>
arche...@yahoo.com
none wrote:
> Bet...@webtv.net (Beth W) wrote in news:13190-443862D8-390@storefull-
> 3236.bay.webtv.net:
>
> hammered and the ship's video camera's have a partial trace of where she
> was that evening.
>
> I doubt Greg Smith was murdered. He was hammered and probably riled up.
> I've seen guys do some incredibly idiotic things while drunk, including
> trying to jump down three stories.
>
> very, very drunk man.
That's the conclusion that Vanity Fair reached last month, after
talking with the guests who were in rooms adjacent to the Smiths' room.
One of the occupants (was he a retired cop? Can't remember) next door
was awake and heard Smith come back, accompanied by three sets of
voices that left afterward...no raised voices, no scuffling. Since
George Smith had a cigar and was known to smoke, the theory is that he
went outside to have a smoke (made a stupid decision to sit on the
railing because he was so wasted) and fell. I think the railing even
had a tell-tale "butt print" on it.
Kris Baker
"K B" <kate...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:24870-443...@storefull-3231.bay.webtv.net...
> Why would a couple on honeymoon party with 3 drunk men?
Because they had lived together for years, the marriage
was a formality and the cruise was a big drunk party.
> These same men were accused of rape by a female
> passenger 3 days later. They videotaped it. The
> ship says the video shows a willing girl. hmm. Maybe
> Jennifer was willing to have sex with them also and
> doesn't want her video getting out.
>
> Jennifer is very pretty. Also a teacher. Any sex
> scandel would ruin her teaching career.
What scandal? She was already shacking up with
Smith, so why is sex with *other* men scandalous?
If you're going to fire all the teachers who have had
sex outside marriage, live with "fiances", or otherwise
don't meet your particular view of morality, you're
not going to have *any* teachers.
Kris
ronniecat
to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth but
instead wrote:
>She is lying to avoid being known as a major slut or whore.
Given the choice between being known as a major slut or whore, or
being pinned with my husband's murder if I didn't do it, I'd
definitely take Door Number One, Alex.
ronnie
--
"The very deaf, as I am, hear the most astounding things all
'round them, which have not, in fact, been said." - Henry Green
<<remove mycollar to respond by email>>
www.hearingloss.blogspot.com - a blog about deafness
Kris Baker
"ronniecat" <ronn...@mycollar.ronniecat.com> wrote in message
news:p2ki32h53mv2pv7ms...@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 8 Apr 2006 20:26:48 -0500, Bet...@webtv.net (Beth W) promised
> to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth but
> instead wrote:
>
>>She is lying to avoid being known as a major slut or whore.
>
> Given the choice between being known as a major slut or whore, or
> being pinned with my husband's murder if I didn't do it, I'd
> definitely take Door Number One, Alex.
>
> ronnie
Isn't this the same logic that the Scottie-supporters use, when
they say Scott Peterson is innocent but protecting someone
else? From whatever the hell is worse than being charged and
convicted of First Degree murder and the DP?
Kris
Kathy
> On Sat, 8 Apr 2006 20:26:48 -0500, Bet...@webtv.net (Beth W) promised
> to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth but
> instead wrote:
>
>
>>She is lying to avoid being known as a major slut or whore.
>
>
> Given the choice between being known as a major slut or whore, or
> being pinned with my husband's murder if I didn't do it, I'd
> definitely take Door Number One, Alex.
>
> ronnie
Except she's not really a suspect. No one places her anywhere near the
cabin at the time of the incident. The victim's family thinks she's not
telling everything she knows, but I don't think even they think she had
anything to do with his death.
Kathy
Michael T
news:1144591447.9...@i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> That's the conclusion that Vanity Fair reached last month, after
> talking with the guests who were in rooms adjacent to the Smiths' room.
> One of the occupants (was he a retired cop? Can't remember) next door
> was awake and heard Smith come back, accompanied by three sets of
> voices that left afterward...no raised voices, no scuffling. Since
> George Smith had a cigar and was known to smoke, the theory is that he
> went outside to have a smoke (made a stupid decision to sit on the
> railing because he was so wasted) and fell. I think the railing even
> had a tell-tale "butt print" on it.
>
Speaking of "butt" - er I mean BUT.
BUT wasn't the room found with the patio door shut (not too surprising) and
the drapes drawn (more surprising). Couldn't this indicate an attempt to
conceal his exit to the patio/balcony?
Kathy
Who opens the drapes just to slide the patio door open to step out? And
I automatically slide the door shut behind me, just as I would the front
or back door.
Kathy
Michael Snyder
"Michael T" <anon...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:tSj_f.45932$_S7....@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com...
> <arche...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:1144591447.9...@i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> >
> > That's the conclusion that Vanity Fair reached last month, after
> > talking with the guests who were in rooms adjacent to the Smiths' room.
> > One of the occupants (was he a retired cop?
Yes.
> > Can't remember) next door
> > was awake and heard Smith come back, accompanied by three sets of
> > voices that left afterward...
Yes.
> > no raised voices, no scuffling.
No. He DID hear raised voices, and he DID hear noises
which he described as being "like furniture being moved around".
> > Since
> > George Smith had a cigar and was known to smoke, the theory is
**A** theory is...
> > that he
> > went outside to have a smoke (made a stupid decision to sit on the
> > railing because he was so wasted) and fell. I think the railing even
> > had a tell-tale "butt print" on it.
I watched the whole 48 hours -- no mention of a "butt print".
However, there WAS mention of a bloody towell in the room,
and blood on the bed sheets. What did he do -- nip off the end
of his finger with the cigar cutter?
>
> Speaking of "butt" - er I mean BUT.
>
> BUT wasn't the room found with the patio door shut (not too surprising)
Yes.
> and the drapes drawn (more surprising).
Yes.
> Couldn't this indicate an attempt to
> conceal his exit to the patio/balcony?
By the cigar-smoking Smith? Can't imagine why...
AndScene
>were accused of rape by a female passenger 3 days later. They
>videotaped it. The ship says the video shows a willing girl. hmm.
>Maybe Jennifer was willing to have sex with them also and doesn't want
>her video getting out.
I wouldn't trust anything the "ship" says...
She may have been drugged and looked "willing" just because she was
laying there --- or the ship may be lying just to cover up a rape. Who
knows what happened but I definately wouldn't trust anything the ship
says.
Michael Snyder
"AndScene" <foa...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1144658013.6...@i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> >Why would a couple on honeymoon party with 3 drunk men? These same men
> >were accused of rape by a female passenger 3 days later. They
> >videotaped it. The ship says the video shows a willing girl.
If the video doesn't show a willing girl, why were no charges filed?
48 Hours seemed perfectly willing to accept that the video shows
a willing girl.
3 days later sounds like a bandwagon-jumper-oner to me.
> > hmm.
> >Maybe Jennifer was willing to have sex with them also and doesn't want
> >her video getting out.
It certainly seems like there's something she's not saying...
> I wouldn't trust anything the "ship" says...
>
> She may have been drugged and looked "willing" just because she was
> laying there
Bullshit. The cops wouldn't accept that. 48 Hours wouldn't accept that.
Michael T
news:443a16d3$0$70867$742e...@news.sonic.net...
>> BUT wasn't the room found with the patio door shut (not too surprising)
>
> Yes.
>
>> and the drapes drawn (more surprising).
>
> Yes.
>
>> Couldn't this indicate an attempt to
>> conceal his exit to the patio/balcony?
>
> By the cigar-smoking Smith? Can't imagine why...
>
Not by Smith. But rather by whoever 'may' have tossed him over the railing.
As for my query about the drapes being drawn to conceal something I have to
concede that Kathy makes a good point about it not being likely that Smith
would open the drapes just to step out for a smoke. Perhaps she is right.
But personally I would have opened them to step out for smoke break. First
of all, these motel/hotel/cruise ship drapes are usually very thick (or
heavy) and it is easier to open them than push them out if the way.
Secondly, these patio door drapes usually extend a foot, or two, beyond the
door handle and it is easier to open the drapes - at lease a foot or two -
so one can access the handle more easily.
But given how drunk he apparently was perhaps he just barged through - which
would favor Katy's view on this.
If so, I tend to accept the Vanity Fair theory as plausible. Especially
since I have not read anything about a possible motive. Was any money or
property taken from their cabin?
MT
Michael Snyder
> "Michael Snyder" <msn...@socmen.org> wrote in message
> news:443a16d3$0$70867$742e...@news.sonic.net...
> >> BUT wasn't the room found with the patio door shut (not too surprising)
> >
> > Yes.
> >
> >> and the drapes drawn (more surprising).
> >
> > Yes.
> >
> >> Couldn't this indicate an attempt to
> >> conceal his exit to the patio/balcony?
> >
> > By the cigar-smoking Smith? Can't imagine why...
> >
>
> Not by Smith. But rather by whoever 'may' have tossed him over the
railing.
Yeah, that's what I meant too.
> As for my query about the drapes being drawn to conceal something I have
to
> concede that Kathy makes a good point about it not being likely that Smith
> would open the drapes just to step out for a smoke. Perhaps she is right.
I don't think so. I have exactly such a curtained-sliding-door patio
in my apartment. The curtains are heavy, and it's awkward to try
and open the door and slide through without opening them. I always
push them open at least a foot or so before going out, and I *never*
close them behind me.
> But personally I would have opened them to step out for smoke break. First
> of all, these motel/hotel/cruise ship drapes are usually very thick (or
> heavy) and it is easier to open them than push them out if the way.
Exactly.
> Secondly, these patio door drapes usually extend a foot, or two, beyond
the
> door handle and it is easier to open the drapes - at lease a foot or two -
> so one can access the handle more easily.
>
> But given how drunk he apparently was perhaps he just barged through -
which
> would favor Katy's view on this.
But that reduces it from a "probably" to a "possibly".
> If so, I tend to accept the Vanity Fair theory as plausible. Especially
> since I have not read anything about a possible motive. Was any money or
> property taken from their cabin?
The motive is, everyone was extremely wasted and his wife was
fooling around with another guy or guys.
Cliff and Linda Griffith
> The motive is, everyone was extremely wasted and his wife was
> fooling around with another guy or guys.
I didn't get to see much of the program the other night because I read about
it here too late. Did it offer anything new?
Does anybody know what the relationship between Jennifer H-S and the Smith
family is like these days? They certainly haven't seemed to join forces
much, if any, in their quest for answers. I wonder if the parents and
sister think she might have been involved in the disappearance...or at least
think, "If you had been with him and sober, maybe George would still be
alive." I haven't seen or heard much coverage of this case anywhere lately.
I believe the cruiseship employee who said she was with Jennifer during the
first day (or two?) of the investigation. Why would Jennifer blatantly lie
about everything? It seems apparent that she was as drunk as a skunk, so
why not just admit it and tell the truth about everything she *does*
remember, if anything?
Linda
Kathy
> "Michael Snyder" <msn...@socmen.org> wrote in message
> news:443a9236$0$70845$742e...@news.sonic.net...
>
>>The motive is, everyone was extremely wasted and his wife was
>>fooling around with another guy or guys.
>
>
> I didn't get to see much of the program the other night because I read about
> it here too late. Did it offer anything new?
>
> Does anybody know what the relationship between Jennifer H-S and the Smith
> family is like these days?
They are not in contact. The family believes Jennifer is not being
forthcoming about all she knows. They are convinced that he was
murdered. Both parties have filed lawsuits against the cruise company.
Michael Snyder
> news:443a9236$0$70845$742e...@news.sonic.net...
>
>>The motive is, everyone was extremely wasted and his wife was
>>fooling around with another guy or guys.
>
>
> I didn't get to see much of the program the other night because I read about
> it here too late. Did it offer anything new?
According to one witness, just before Jennifer left the disco
(last time to be seen before George disappeared), she had appeared
to be flirting with several men, George went over to speak to her
about it -- and she kicked him in the groin. Other witnesses
didn't see that happen.
> Does anybody know what the relationship between Jennifer H-S and the Smith
> family is like these days? They certainly haven't seemed to join forces
> much, if any, in their quest for answers.
According to the show, it was at first convivial, and she was
staying at the parents' house -- but as suspicions began to be
cast about, they mutually agreed to part, to avoid strain on the
relationship.
> I wonder if the parents and
> sister think she might have been involved in the disappearance...or at least
> think, "If you had been with him and sober, maybe George would still be
> alive." I haven't seen or heard much coverage of this case anywhere lately.
No new developments.
> I believe the cruiseship employee who said she was with Jennifer during the
> first day (or two?) of the investigation. Why would Jennifer blatantly lie
> about everything? It seems apparent that she was as drunk as a skunk, so
> why not just admit it and tell the truth about everything she *does*
> remember, if anything?
And why get up after 3 hours' sleep, after a binge, just to go
to a spa appointment and show up an hour and a half early?
Anyway, I haven't seen a plausible theory, including that
Jennifer did it. None of it makes much sense.
Michael Snyder
> "K B" <kate...@webtv.net> wrote in message
> news:24870-443...@storefull-3231.bay.webtv.net...
>
>>Why would a couple on honeymoon party with 3 drunk men?
>
>
> Because they had lived together for years, the marriage
> was a formality and the cruise was a big drunk party.
>
>
>>These same men were accused of rape by a female
>>passenger 3 days later. They videotaped it. The
>>ship says the video shows a willing girl. hmm. Maybe
>>Jennifer was willing to have sex with them also and
>>doesn't want her video getting out.
>>
>>Jennifer is very pretty. Also a teacher. Any sex
>>scandel would ruin her teaching career.
>
>
> What scandal? She was already shacking up with
> Smith, so why is sex with *other* men scandalous?
Huh? You don't see a difference between a committed couple
living together, and a new bride participating in a gang
bang on her honeymoon?