Possible Gosch photos & anonymous JG
Kris Baker
envelope on Sunday, but she didn't call police until Tuesday.....but took
time to email the images?
Meanwhile, another JG initialled-guy has entered the picture with a tale
similar to that told by Mrs Gosch when she had the visit from "her son"
back in 1997.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Police inspect possible Gosch photos
BY LEE ROOD
REGISTER STAFF WRITER
Copyright 2006, Des Moines Register and Tribune Company
August 31, 2006
Police confirmed today they are investigating photos sent to numerous people
this week that some believe are of Johnny Gosch, the 12-year-old West Des
Moines boy who triggered nationwide concern for abducted children when he
disappeared in 1982.
Noreen Gosch has told authorities and others connected to the case that she
believes a picture of a youth who appears to have his mouth gagged and hands
and feet bound is of her son shortly after he was abducted. The boy in the
photo appears to be wearing sweatpants like those Johnny was wearing the day
of the abduction, she said.
Lt. Jeff Miller of the West Des Moines Police Department said Noreen Gosch
received the photos on Sunday and brought them to the police department on
Tuesday. Other people connected to the case also have reported receiving
copies via anonymous deliveries and the Internet.
"Noreen did contact our detective and come in with these photos," Miller
said. "We've seized the photos and we are in the process of researching
where they came from and whether they've been doctored up."
Numerous theories have swirled about Gosch's disappearance since he vanished
before dawn while on his paper route on Sunday, Sept. 5, 1982. He was last
seen that morning picking up newspapers. Johnny's wagon full of newspapers
was later discovered two blocks from the family's home in West Des Moines.
Copies of the photos that are just surfacing were sent to The Des Moines
Register by James Rothstein, who said he is a former New York police
detective who has followed developments on the Gosch case in retirement.
Rothstein said he was sent the photos by Noreen Gosch and Michael Corbin, a
Colorado radio talk-show host who has aired programs on Gosch's
disappearance. Rothstein has acted as a criminal justice specialist for
Corbin's show, "A Closer Look."
Corbin said Thursday he has been in contact over the past two years with a
man who claims to have been another child kidnapping victim who broke away
from a child-sex ring with Gosch. He said the man said his name is Jimmy
Gibson and has told him he wants to speak publicly soon about their
kidnappings after hiding out for years from abductors.
"In the times that he's contacted me (via email), he's never had a
consistent email address," Corbin said in an interview with the Register.
"I've kind of teetered toward believing the veracity of what's he said. But
with these photos, I am really confused. ... If they are on the run, I'm
curious as to how they got access to those photos, because they would have
been in the possession of their perpetrators."
Police recovered no evidence after Gosch's abduction, and arrested no
suspects in connection with his case. The kidnapping struck terror in the
minds of many Midwestern parents afterward, causing them to keep much closer
watch on their children. Gosch's was one of the first faces of missing or
abducted children to appear on milk cartons across the country.
John and Noreen Gosch divorced in 1993. Since, then she has hired private
investigators to hunt for her son, written a book called "Why Johnny Can't
Come Home" and testified in a 1999 federal court case that her son came to
visit her in 1997.
Poe
> This is strange. The photos were left on Mrs Gosch's porch in a plain
> envelope on Sunday, but she didn't call police until Tuesday.....but took
> time to email the images?
> Meanwhile, another JG initialled-guy has entered the picture with a tale
> similar to that told by Mrs Gosch when she had the visit from "her son"
> back in 1997.
It does seem strange, however maybe she called the police immediately,
but made an appointment for the following Tuesday.
This story is really scary. I watched a supposed documentary about a
child porn ring and Boy's Town from back in this time period that was
supposedly silenced. The quality of the documentary on the Johnny Gosch
website is poor, but nonetheless it seems like it could be authentic.
The pictures of the boy bound and gagged was sickening. The poor child
(and in another photo, children) looked so terrified in that dead-eye
kind of a way, like they had no hope left in them.
EnEss
"Poe" wrote:
> The picture of the boy bound and gagged was sickening. The poor child (and
> way, like they had no hope left in them.
I know. I had the very same thought and feeling about it. You put it exactly
right. It was terribly disturbing.
NS
(add sbc before global to email)
Hester Mofet
> Kris Baker wrote:
> > This is strange. The photos were left on Mrs Gosch's porch in a plain
> > envelope on Sunday, but she didn't call police until Tuesday.....but took
> > time to email the images?
> > Meanwhile, another JG initialled-guy has entered the picture with a tale
> > similar to that told by Mrs Gosch when she had the visit from "her son"
> > back in 1997.
I don't think it's strange. As horrible as the pics are, if they were
the last photos of my child or evidence of what had happened to him, I
would want a copy. Since the pictures are evidence, the police would
not give them back. Maybe she doesn't have a scanner and wanted to wait
until they were scanned. Most likely she was freaked out by them and it
took her a while to decide to go to the police.
Hester Mofet
Kris Baker
"Hester Mofet" <HesterNO...@speakeasy.net> wrote in message
news:040920060443409500%HesterNO...@speakeasy.net...
I guess I'd want the police *immediately* so they maybe find who left them
there.
The logical side of my brain tells me that Mrs Gosch is coming up with this
stuff by herself.
When her son supposedly visited her in 1997 (with another man at his side)
he knocked at her door and woke her up from sleep. Interestingly, this
didn't happen at the home Johnny had grown up in, but was at the apartment
Noreen had moved to after divorcing her husband. She didn't call the
police, and never mentioned it until 1999 when she testified to the
"Franklin cover-up" grand jury, which ended up being labeled a
carefully-crafted hoax. (It was initially reported in the Washington
Times, the paper owned by the Moonies.)
The soft side of my brain feels very sorry for Mrs Gosch, who is being used
by a number of right-wing religious scandal/conspiracy theorists.
Meanwhile, no one's ever questioned the oddities of the morning Johnny
disappeared. His father usually went with him, but didn't this time. The
wagon was found full of papers (full????) two blocks from the house.
Kris
Poe
I do get the feeling that there is a lot of right wing bashing threaded
throughout this whole thing. It was a red flag to me.
Kris Baker
"Poe" <hau...@terrible-thought.com> wrote in message
news:4m305vF...@individual.net...
The thing is, the bashing was also *from* the religious right. I'm
not always a Wikipedia fan, because it can be slagged so easily,
but this is pretty detailed with good links that go to news stories
and other coverage:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johnny_Gosch
I meant to include it.
Another wacky thing: Noreen's been saying that in the pictures
"left on her doorstep" recently, she sees Johnny wearing sweatpants
like he was when he disappeared.
Here's the images, right from her site: but I don't see any sweatpants.
Only jeans.
http://www.ninjaproxy.com/cgiproxy/nph-proxy.pl/010110A/http/www.johnnygosch.com/
Kris
Kris Baker
"Poe" <hau...@terrible-thought.com> wrote in message
news:4m305vF...@individual.net...
> Kris Baker wrote:
>>
>
> I do get the feeling that there is a lot of right wing bashing threaded
> throughout this whole thing. It was a red flag to me.
>
but quite good:
http://crimeblog.us/?p=80
Kris
Poe
Kris Baker
I see pockets. Since she says the one on the left is Johnny, she also
has to be saying that he's one of the three jeans-clad boys in the other
picture. I sure wish the father would speak out; he's incredibly silent,
and it would be good to know why the morning routine varied that day.
Kris
Kris Baker
"cndc" <coalition_for_national_day_care*NO*@*SPAM*yahoo.com> wrote in
message
news:87fyf7b...@localhost.localdomain.i-did-not-set--mail-host-address--so-tickle-me...
> Check this out, specifically the photographs of the 3 boys (Chuckie
> Mauk, Jacob Wetterling, and Jared):
>
>
> http://host473.ipowerweb.com/~truecrim/home/2006/03/a_bike_ride_to_the_store_but_t_1.html
>
> and compare that to Goesch, especially in contrast to Chuckie:
>
> http://www.johnnygosch.com/book.htm
>
> alot alike if you ask me.
>
>
> As for the sweatpants/jeans, there seems to be some kind of bulge on
> his rear-end or it may be a photograph smudge but I don't see the
> seams indicative of a pocket, plus the waist appears gathered.
>
> Elizabeth
All little boys with dark hair, looked alike at that time.
What I'm questioning in the supposed-Gosch images is the fact
that Noreen wants the boy in the photo on the left, to be also one
of the boys in the photo of the three.....and if that's true, someone
changed clothes while being bound.
I really think someone's hoaxing in the Gosch case.....and it's sad,
because there are missing kids out there who are probably dead.
Who thinks that John Wayne Gacy was the only multi-child
predator of that time? But the thought that there's some sort
of government conspiracy taking boys from *Iowa* when they're
readily available everywhere, just seems odd.
Kris
cmashiel...@hotmail.com
> The logical side of my brain tells me that Mrs Gosch is coming up with this
> stuff by herself.
> When her son supposedly visited her in 1997 (with another man at his side)
> he knocked at her door and woke her up from sleep. Interestingly, this
> didn't happen at the home Johnny had grown up in, but was at the apartment
> Noreen had moved to after divorcing her husband. She didn't call the
> police, and never mentioned it until 1999 when she testified to the
> "Franklin cover-up" grand jury
> Kris
It seemed to me (casual observer) she wanted people to believe Johnny
had escaped and given her a bunch of information so those responsible
would think she had something on them and be more careful about
something possibly happening to her.
Cori
cmashiel...@hotmail.com
> But the thought that there's some sort
> of government conspiracy taking boys from *Iowa* when they're
> readily available everywhere, just seems odd.
>
> Kris
Why would ANYONE deliberately target middle-class boys with families?
Why not someone homeless with either no family, or at least no
relatives in any position to investigate or complain? Kids from a drug
house would be one good possibility.
Cori
Kris Baker
<cmashiel...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1157396574.8...@e3g2000cwe.googlegroups.com...
Then why tell her anything; that way she'd be totally safe. If he had
escaped, why go back.
This stuff really sounds like dreamland, and eventually implanted as
"it really happened". I feel really sorry for her. Really.
Kris
Kris Baker
<cmashiel...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1157396800....@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
That's right, or the kind of young kids already on the streets?
It never made a bit of sense that someone would target a
newspaper boy in Des Moines as part of a "secret government
pedophile plan cover-up" thing.....and it looks like the Grand
Jury laughed that theory out of the room.
It does make sense that he was the target of one pedophile
who'd been watching him on his daily paper route and sprung
on the one day Daddy didn't go with him......or something
happened at home that morning.
Kris
Poe
hiding forever. Just call Fox News, they'll be all over it, and you'd be
poison to go after. Idk. I do believe the boy was taken and put into
sexual slavery - unless someone faked those photos, which I don't think.
But all this stuff about getting a first hand tour of the white house,
etc. sounds incredibly far fetched.
Kris Baker
I don't think that's Johnny Gosch in any of the photos, and I don't
believe he's anyone sex slave.
Almost exactly two years after Johnny Gosch disappeared, another
young paperboy disappeared in Des Moines.
http://snipurl.com/vx7d
You don't hear much about Eugene Wade Martin, because his
parents aren't all over the internet with wacky sex-slave stories.
I'm sorry, I just don't buy into vast government conspiracies.
But I do believe there are John Gacy wannabes in every city,
maybe even moving around to avoid detection. This one seemed
to specialize in paperboys.
Kris
earthage
http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a3886761c4a1d.htm
Father Skeptical That Johnny Gosch Visited Mother in 1997
ROBERT DORR
Omaha World-Herald
February 9, 1999, Tuesday IOWA EDITION
The father of a Des Moines newspaper carrier who disappeared more than
16 years ago said he is skeptical of his ex-wife's statement that their
son showed up at her apartment in 1997.
"Apparently, she's trying to get more publicity or whatever to get on a
talk show so she could go where it's warm," John Gosch said of Noreen
Gosch's testimony.
Their son, Johnny Gosch, was 12 years old when he vanished Sept. 5,
1982. His wagon was found about two blocks from his home, filled with
copies of the Des Moines Sunday Register he was to deliver.
Noreen Gosch had not publicly mentioned having a 1997 visit with her
son before her testimony Friday in U.S. District Court in Lincoln.
She testified in a case involving the imprisoned Lawrence E. King Jr.,
former head of the failed Franklin Community Federal Credit Union of
Omaha.
John Gosch said that if their son had returned to the Des Moines area,
he probably would have gone to the couple's home, where John Gosch was
living and where Johnny Gosch grew up, instead of his mother's
apartment.
Responding on Monday, Noreen Gosch said: "I would think any father
would be delighted that his son is alive instead of trying to attack
the boy's mother."
The couple divorced in 1993.
snip rest
Kris Baker
"earthage" <eartha...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1157406724.8...@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>
>
> http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a3886761c4a1d.htm
> Father Skeptical That Johnny Gosch Visited Mother in 1997
> ROBERT DORR
> Omaha World-Herald
> February 9, 1999, Tuesday IOWA EDITION
Thanks! I thought I remembered that, but all I could
bring up were those wackadoo sites.
I should have put up a "Help!" ;)
Kris
earthage
I thought immediately it was a hoax, but then I'm always skeptical.
Anyone know when braided belts came into style?
http://crimeblog.us/?p=80#comments
So... say the boy is the same in each photo. An abductor went to the
trouble to buy him a change of clothes, at some point? Incidentally -
the boy in the middle appears to be wearing a braided belt. I don't
know when those came in style, but I can't recall seeing one before
the early '90s.
Kris Baker
I had one in the 1960s, so I'm not sure that's a clue. But a good
leather one has always been more expensive than the rest of
the clothing worn by those boys.
I'm a skeptic, too.
Kris
earthage
Kris Baker wrote:
>
> Meanwhile, no one's ever questioned the oddities of the morning Johnny
> disappeared. His father usually went with him, but didn't this time. The
> wagon was found full of papers (full????) two blocks from the house.
>
> Kris
COPING: AN ANGUISHED MOTHER REFUSES TO GIVE UP HOPE FOR THE SON WHO
VANISHED SIX YEARS AGO
Noreen Gosch, Civia Tamarkin
People Magazine
10-10-1988
Excerpt:
Johnny was in junior high school and wanted to have a paper route
so he could start earning a little money of his own. During the week
he delivered the papers in the afternoon, but on Sunday mornings he
had to leave when it was still dark and the streets were empty. That
concerned me, but my husband said he would go with Johnny, and that
became the pattern.
On this particular Sunday, however, that's not what happened. The
night before, Johnny complained that he was the biggest kid picking
up papers and he wanted to do the route by himself. We said no, but
the next morning Johnny went off alone without waking his father. We
were awakened by the phone about 7 a.m. as neighbors called to say
they hadn't got their papers. At first we assumed Johnny had
overslept, but his bed was empty and our dachshund, Gretchen, was
gone. Johnny always took her with him on his route, so we figured
that's where he was, and John took off in the car to go help Johnny.
A while later John returned to the house. His face was just white and
he said, ''Johnny's gone.'' A block and a half from our house he had
found Johnny's wagon full of papers. The dog wandered home a little
later.
My husband called the police, and I began phoning the other
newsboys who picked up their papers at the same corner. They told me
about a man who had pulled up in a car supposedly to ask Johnny for
directions. A short time later, the man came back. The other boys
said Johnny thought there was something weird about this guy, and he
told them, ''I don't like this. I'm taking my papers and going
home.'' One of the boys heard our dog growling, and when he looked
up, he saw a second, very tall man following Johnny and attempting to
talk to him. The man followed Johnny around the corner and out of
sight. Then the boys heard a car door slam. That noise also woke up a
kid in a nearby house. He looked out of the window and saw a blue,
two-tone car run the stop sign and speed away.
The whole abduction sequence took no longer than 12 minutes.
Kris Baker
This is strange. Why would the guy pick on the kid with the growling
dog? Why did the man pull up to the group of boys, and ask only
Johnny for directions? Where was the adult, or did he just
drop the papers and drive away?
I dunno......almost everything else is post-internet and full of the
conspiracies.
Kris
earthage
I wish we could find interviews with the other carriers at the time.
Good question about where the adult was who delivered the newspapers to
the boys.
>From the New York TImes August 2000 (article was more on children
kidnapped by the other parent):
I.R.S. rules that kidnapped child earns one-year exemption
The I.R.S. legal memo is consistent with the agency's actions in the
case of 12-year-old Johnny Gosch, who was kidnapped by a stranger in
front of five witnesses in Des Moines in 1982. His mother, Noreen
Gosch, said the family's tax return was audited in 1986 and the
exemption claimed for Johnny was denied.
''The I.R.S. agent was very cruel,'' Mrs. Gosch said. ''She said, 'Your
son chose to not live at home so you can't get an exemption for him,'
and we reminded her that he was taken from us. And she said that was
beside the point -- that if he wasn't living with us we could not get
an exemption for him.''
Mrs. Gosch and the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children
appealed to a variety of officials, but the auditor's decision stood,
she said. Johnny has never been found.
Kris Baker
>
> Kris Baker wrote:>>
>> This is strange. Why would the guy pick on the kid with the growling
>> dog? Why did the man pull up to the group of boys, and ask only
>> Johnny for directions? Where was the adult, or did he just
>> drop the papers and drive away?
>>
>> I dunno......almost everything else is post-internet and full of the
>> conspiracies.
>>
>> Kris
>
> I wish we could find interviews with the other carriers at the time.
> Good question about where the adult was who delivered the newspapers to
> the boys.
>
>>From the New York TImes August 2000 (article was more on children
> kidnapped by the other parent):
> I.R.S. rules that kidnapped child earns one-year exemption
>
> The I.R.S. legal memo is consistent with the agency's actions in the
> case of 12-year-old Johnny Gosch, who was kidnapped by a stranger in
> front of five witnesses in Des Moines in 1982. His mother, Noreen
> Gosch, said the family's tax return was audited in 1986 and the
> exemption claimed for Johnny was denied.
>
> ''The I.R.S. agent was very cruel,'' Mrs. Gosch said. ''She said, 'Your
> son chose to not live at home so you can't get an exemption for him,'
> and we reminded her that he was taken from us. And she said that was
> beside the point -- that if he wasn't living with us we could not get
> an exemption for him.''
That's not cruel; that's the law. I can't believe they tried to claim
an exemption for him. And I really, really doubt that the agent
would have told her "chose not to live at home" (unless Mrs Gosch
started talking about conspiracies and such).
Kris
EnEss
"Kris Baker" wrote:
> "earthage" wrote:
>>>From the New York TImes August 2000 (article was more on children
>> kidnapped by the other parent):
>> I.R.S. rules that kidnapped child earns one-year exemption
<snip>
>> ''The I.R.S. agent was very cruel,'' Mrs. Gosch said. ''She said, 'Your
>> son chose to not live at home so you can't get an exemption for him,'
>> and we reminded her that he was taken from us. And she said that was
>> beside the point -- that if he wasn't living with us we could not get
>> an exemption for him.''
> That's not cruel; that's the law. I can't believe they tried to claim
> an exemption for him. And I really, really doubt that the agent
> would have told her "chose not to live at home" (unless Mrs Gosch
> started talking about conspiracies and such).
I wondered about that too. I'm terribly sorry for the Gosch family--you know
I am--but the purpose of a tax exemption for a dependent is to compensate
the taxpayer for the expenses of caring for a dependent--food, clothes,
housing, health care, education if it's applicable, misc. expenses. If the
dependent is gone permanently, or for years, what expenses does the income
earner have related to the dependent? I mean, maybe there was expenses
related to the search, and maybe that would be deductible (I don't know) but
a whole deduction for a long-time missing dependent? I mean, if he'd been
found dead would they expect to continue claiming him as a dependent until
he would've been 18?
As for what the IRS agent said, who can say? Some of them are pretty dumb,
and I know they can be nasty. It's possible she did say something like that,
but as she herself supposedly said a minute later, it would be totally
beside the point if he chose to live away or if he was taken against his
will. The point is, he's not there anymore and the family has no expenses
related to supporting him. It's possible also Mrs. Gosch threw that part in
to make the story worse--to make them sound really heartless.
NS
(add sbc before global to email)
Hester Mofet
<kris....@prodigyyyy.net> wrote:
><snip>
It was a Dachshund. He was probably unafraid of it, not knowing that a
Doxie can have an amazingly tenacious grip on anything it grabs hold
of.
Hester Mofet
Robert St. James (la ira de Dios)
Seems a good overview, although the case is so old that I haven't been
able to find any actual stories from 1982. I agree with the fundamental
assessment however: a predator got the kid. Probably the same one that
got the Martin kid 2 year later. There's really no reason to assume
either of them are still alive, and most likely they were killed not
long after they were abducted.
The mother is just a lunatic, her stories both sad and stupid. She
reminds me of the Bradleys, and to some extent Beth Twitty, although
Beth has a far more realistic scenario than any "sex-ring" which is the
modern equivalent of the Salem witches.
The pictures are just Gosch's latest attempt to prove to the world (and
to herself) that her son is still alive out there somewhere. He isn't,
but short finding his skeleton, she'll never believe he's dead.
RstJ
earthage
cndc wrote:
> You might like this:
>
> http://www.ctrl.org/silence/memo.html
>
> DeCamp: Can you tell us how you came to know Paul Bonacci?
>
> Noreen: In 1991, I believe it was -- let me check my notes, I wrote it
> down -- yes, it was in 1991 and it was the spring of 1991, I
> was at my office and suddenly people called me on the phone
> and said that there was a news release that was being
> generated by NBC in Des Moines, Channel 13, saying that there
> was a young man in prison in Lincoln, Nebraska that had given
> information that he was part of the Johnny Gosch
> kidnapping. Well, immediately everyone wanted statements from
> me. The FBI showed up at my office, practically pinned me on
> the wall, wanted to know what this was all about. And I had no
> clue, I did not know anything about it. The whole climate of
> Des Moines was just crazy when this happened. Because
> everybody had been wanting to see Johnny's case solved. Well,
> Later that night I got home and I waited all night long. My
> husband never came home. He didn't walk in the door till 6:00
> a.m. And I said, where have you been? Surely you've heard the
> news. And he said, yeah, I heard it. But he says, I've known
> about Bonacci for almost two years and I didn't tell you. And
> I couldn't believe it. I later found out years later that he
> came to Lincoln, Nebraska after Paul had confided in his
> attorney, you, that he had knowledge of the Gosch case. You
> called our home. MY HUSBAND TOOK THE CALL, NEVER TOLD ME. AND
> --> HE CAME TO LINCOLN AND SUBSEQUENTLY WENT TO THE PRISON BUT HE <--
> BROUGHT ANOTHER WOMAN WITH HIM AND INTRODUCED HER AS NOREEN
> GOSCH. Someone who masqueraded as me. And we have, you know,
> witnesses to prove that. Why he did this I'm not quite sure. I
> do know that he went to the prison to talk to Paul. At
> length. And then kept it from me for all that length of
> time. And instructed you to never call our home and to only
> contact him through a certain number. So when all this started
> to come about, and I'm digressing now back to when Bonacci
> surfaced in my world, which was in 1991, I went to the prison
> to meet him myself that fall. With a private investigator Roy
> Stephens. And I took along the same NBC reporter that first
> released the story so he could videotape everything that was
> said. And during that time during our visit at the prison Paul
> admitted to me what happened, how Johnny was kidnapped, where
> they took him, how he was used, where he went on from
> there. How he was used for pictures, pornographic pictures,
> many aspects of what I did not know. The TV station ran that
> as a series. That attracted the attention of America's Most
> Wanted. They came in and filmed the entire the story and all
> of what Paul had to say. In the mean time I was able to have a
> private investigator begin to check out many of the details
> that Paul had given me. And Paul is telling the truth. He was
> the first one to ever come to me and tell the truth about what
> happened to my son.
>
> DeCamp: Noreen, how do you know this isn't just one more story? Why do
> you believe him rather than somebody else?
>
> Noreen: Because we've had the time to check out many of the things
> that Paul told us and we found them to be true, to be
> accurate. Because I have interviewed other young men that have
> given me the very same sorry. And because I have talked to my
> son myself one time.
>
> As for Eugene Wade Martin (the second missing person whose face was
> placed on a milk carton [Johnny was the first]) connection, from:
> http://www.johnnygosch.com/CaseFAQ.htm
>
> Q: Is there any connection between Johnny's kidnapping and that
> of Eugene Martin from Des Moines, less than two years later?
>
> A: A few months before the Eugene Martin kidnapping, a local
> private investigator, Sam Soda called Noreen, telling her
> there would be another kidnapping. It would take place the
> second weekend in August 1984 and it would be a paperboy from
> the southside of Des Moines. Eugene Martin was kidnapped the
> second weekend in August 1984, from the southside of Des
> Moines and he was a paperboy. According to evidence both
> kidnappings are connected.
>
> -e
This one is from the archives, so it's got to be bought.
Philadelphia Daily News (PA) - October 16, 1984
NEWSPAPER AIDE FIRED IN PROBE
Iowa's largest newspaper today released the name of of an employee
who allegedly admitted taking advantage of seven young paperboys but
authorities said they didn't think the man was involved in the
disappearance of two youths.Private investigator Sam Soda told a news
conference yesterday an employee of the Des Moines Register,
earthage
She's gone through a lot. In the early years, people calling, people
trying to exort money from Noreen and her husband.
========================
>From People Magazine 10/10/88 (I believe the October mentioned is the
same year of
kidnapping):
Also in October a man phoned demanding $10,000 for Johnny's
return. He said he would leave a note with instructions in a
telephone booth several miles from our home. I found the note
exactly where he said it would be. It said I was to drive alone to a
certain area of the city and deposit the money by 1:00 a.m. I called
the authorities immediately, but they didn't have enough time to set
things up. We missed the deadline, and the man called again and said,
''You waited too long, lady. You won't get your kid back now.''
As we approached the first anniversary of Johnny's kidnapping, it
just ripped our hearts out. It hurt to look at his pictures and know
he had missed so much. What kind of conditions was he living under?
Might we recover him and find that he had been put through so much
that he would never be able to have a normal life? Those kinds of
things just haunted us. To add to our stress, people would call and
say Johnny was dead and laugh, or they would describe him as being in
all sorts of horrible situations. The police traced the calls. Many
were made by local people -- some adults, some kids.
In June 1984 we got a call from a local man who claimed he had
information about Johnny and wanted to help. We met with him and
became suspicious because he knew so much about the case. The police
started monitoring him. Soon, I started getting phone threats. A male
caller with an unfamiliar voice said, ''Why don't you drop the case
before you get hurt, Mrs. Gosch?'' The calls continued for months,
with someone breathing on the other end and hanging up. Within 20
minutes of the call a man we didn't recognize would appear in our
backyard and throw rocks at the windows. We called the police, but
they could never catch him.
==================
FRAUD LAID TO MAN OVER MISSING BOY
AP
08-16-1985
A Michigan man was arrested today on fraud charges for purportedly
taking $11,000 from the parents of a newspaper carrier missing for
nearly three years, saying he would free the boy from a motorcycle
gang.
Robert Herman Meier 2d, 19, of Saginaw, Mich., also known as Samuel
Forbes Dakota, was arrested in Buffalo at the Canadian border,
according to Charles R. Wiley, a spokesman for the Federal Bureau of
Investigation. A warrant has charged Mr. Meier with wire fraud.
A letter that Mr. Meier purportedly wrote to the parents of Johnny
Gosch, the missing carrier, said he was a guard in a motorcycle club
when the boy disappeared in September 1982 in West Des Moines. The boy,
then 12 years old, was taken as part of a large child-slavery ring
operated by the club, the letter said.
The boy's mother, Noreen Gosch, released the letter today, saying she
wanted to put pressure on the F.B.I. to track down leads from the
letter, which was dated July 23 and signed by Samuel Forbes Dakota.
The bureau said Mr. Meier took $11,000 from the Gosches, asked for
$100,000 more and promised to return their son.
Boy Was Held as a 'Pet'
In a news article published today in The Des Moines Register, Mr. Meier
was quoted as saying he had reason to know that the Gosch boy was alive
and was being held in Mexico City as a ''pet.'' Mr. Meier was reached
at a motel in Windsor, Ontario, just east of Detroit.
Mrs. Gosch said she got the man's letter Aug. 9, several weeks after
she met him in Kansas City, Mo., and sent him checks totaling $11,000.
She said he promised her a written explanation of what happened to her
son, who disappeared from his paper route on Sept. 5, 1982.
The letter said Mr. Dakota was a member of the motorcycle club. Since
April 1979, ''I functioned as a guard in the operations of the sale of
children as slaves,'' he said. ''I personally stood guard over no less
than 200 children in the time specified, and delivered no less than 30
children to the auction block. One of these children is known to me as
Johnny Gosch.''
The letter said the Gosch boy was sold to a man whom Mr. Dakota
identified as a ''high-level drug dealer residing in Mexico City.''
Mother Criticizes F.B.I. Mrs. Gosch criticized the F.B.I., saying a
statement released by the bureau Tuesday about the arrest warrant
against Mr. Meier destroyed her and her husband John's credibility with
anyone who would take the couple's offer to pay ransom for their boy.
''The F.B.I. has ruined chances for getting our son back from
information from the public,'' Mrs. Gosch said. ''Why would anyone talk
to us now?'' She said Mr. Dakota made it clear that if he was
''burned'' by the Gosches, he would never disclose the boy's
whereabouts.
An F.B.I. spokesman in Omaha said the bureau would have no comment on
the criticism.
================
Second Extortion Arrest In Missing-Child Case;
AP
08-18-1986
An Federal Bureau of Investigation agent and a Tulsa police officer
posed as parents of a missing child and arrested a Syracuse, N.Y., man
on charges of attempted extortion and fraud.
The suspect, David James Schultz, 36 years old, was arrested Saturday
at a Tulsa cafeteria after agents said he told the parents of a missing
Iowa child that he knew where their son was, said an F.B.I. spokesman,
Dan Vogel.
According to Mr. Vogel, Mr. Schultz approached John and Noreen Gosch of
West Des Moines, Iowa, on Friday, and said that for $2,500 he would
disclose the whereabouts of their son, who disappeared Sept. 5, 1982,
while delivering newspapers.
A similar extortion attempt was made against the family last year,
resulting in the arrest and fraud conviction of Robert Herman Meyer 2d
of Saginaw, Mich., Mr. Vogel said.
Chocolic
"Kris Baker" <kris....@prodigyyyy.net> wrote in message
news:QK1Lg.5668$tU....@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com...
When I first saw the photo of the three boys, the thing that struck me
the most was I didn't think they had fear in their eyes. I thought
that was strange. I thought maybe they knew, or got to know the
photographer. On the photo of the lone boy tied up, I think it looks
like sweats he is wearing. Look at the legs and how the material
stretches over his knees.
Chocolic
Chocolic
Eugene Martin looks very much like the Jared boy that was kidnapped
and raped in Mpls, in the photo of the three boys they are trying to
link together at this site:
http://host473.ipowerweb.com/~truecrim/home/2006/03/a_bike_ride_to_the_store_but_t_1.html
Chocolic
Hester Mofet
<87lkozb...@localhost.localdomain.i-did-not-set--mail-host-address--
so-tickle-me>, cndc
<coalition_for_national_day_care*NO*@*SPAM*yahoo.com> wrote:
> "Kris" writes:
>
> > "Poe" <hau...@terrible-thought.com> wrote in message
> > news:4m305vF...@individual.net...
> >> Kris Baker wrote:
> >>> "Hester Mofet" <HesterNO...@speakeasy.net> wrote in message
> >>> news:040920060443409500%HesterNO...@speakeasy.net...
> >>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>Kris Baker wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>This is strange. The photos were left on Mrs Gosch's porch in a plain
> >>>>>>envelope on Sunday, but she didn't call police until Tuesday.....but
> >>>>>>took
> >>>>>>time to email the images?
> >>>>>>Meanwhile, another JG initialled-guy has entered the picture with a
> >>>>>>tale
> >>>>>>similar to that told by Mrs Gosch when she had the visit from "her
> >>>>>>son"
> >>>>>>back in 1997.
> >>>>
> >>>>I don't think it's strange. As horrible as the pics are, if they were
> >>>>the last photos of my child or evidence of what had happened to him, I
> >>>>would want a copy. Since the pictures are evidence, the police would
> >>>>not give them back. Maybe she doesn't have a scanner and wanted to wait
> >>>>until they were scanned. Most likely she was freaked out by them and it
> >>>>took her a while to decide to go to the police.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>Hester Mofet
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> I guess I'd want the police *immediately* so they maybe find who left
> >>> them there.
> >>>
> >>> The logical side of my brain tells me that Mrs Gosch is coming up with
> >>> this stuff by herself.
> >>> When her son supposedly visited her in 1997 (with another man at his
> >>> side) he knocked at her door and woke her up from sleep. Interestingly,
> >>> this didn't happen at the home Johnny had grown up in, but was at the
> >>> apartment Noreen had moved to after divorcing her husband. She
> >>> didn't call the police, and never mentioned it until 1999 when she
> >>> testified to the "Franklin cover-up" grand jury, which ended up being
> >>> labeled a carefully-crafted hoax. (It was initially reported in the
> >>> Washington Times, the paper owned by the Moonies.)
> >>> The soft side of my brain feels very sorry for Mrs Gosch, who is being
> >>> used by a number of right-wing religious scandal/conspiracy theorists.
> >>>
> >>> Meanwhile, no one's ever questioned the oddities of the morning Johnny
> >>> disappeared. His father usually went with him, but didn't this time.
> >>> The wagon was found full of papers (full????) two blocks from the house.
> >>>
> >>> Kris
> >>>
> >>>
> >> Do you know of a site that covers these details of the case objectively?
> >>
> >> I do get the feeling that there is a lot of right wing bashing threaded
> >> throughout this whole thing. It was a red flag to me.
> >
> > The thing is, the bashing was also *from* the religious right. I'm
> > not always a Wikipedia fan, because it can be slagged so easily,
> > but this is pretty detailed with good links that go to news stories
> > and other coverage:
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johnny_Gosch
> > I meant to include it.
> >
> > Another wacky thing: Noreen's been saying that in the pictures
> > "left on her doorstep" recently, she sees Johnny wearing sweatpants
> > like he was when he disappeared.
> > Here's the images, right from her site: but I don't see any sweatpants.
> > Only jeans.
> >
> > http://www.ninjaproxy.com/cgiproxy/nph-proxy.pl/010110A/http/www.johnnygosch.
> > com/
>
> That's the image of the three boys. The one of Johnny alone and bound
> (with the circle indicating a mark) is, I believe, the one she is
> referring to - and those are not jeans but could be dark (probably
> navy) sweatpants.
>
> In the Case FAQ from that johnnygosch.com it is noted that someone saw
> a man taking a photograph or photographs of Johnny two weeks before he
> disappeared. This is corroborated with the Paul Bonacci testimony that
> Johnny, specifically, was targeted by a group of men before his
> abduction.
>
> Elizabeth
I really think most of this is a lot of crap. If Johnny Gosch was taken
by a high powered Satanic sex slave cult (and I'm not saying I believe
it), he was long dead by the time he came to "visit" his mother. Think
about it this way: what on earth would be the purpose of keeping a boy
once he outgrew his, er, "usefulness?" Pedophiles usually have a target
age that they like best and after Johnny grew through all of those ages
what was left? A young adult who could identify at least some of the
people involved. No, sorry to say it, but Johnny and anyone else taken
by the same peson/people for sexual purposes is gone.
Cases like the girl in Germany and Elizabeth Smart give hope to people
who have long term missing relatives. I remember hearing somewhere that
on average a kid who is taken for molestation purposes will either be
returned within a few hours or killed. I do believe there are some
long-term (non-parental) kidnapped children and adults, but I believe
they are rare.
I see Noreen Gosch as more like poor Susan Billig. Susan was hounded
for years by a man who said he knew where her daughter was. Amy Billig
disappeared in the 70s and this guy wasn't prosecuted until, I think,
the 90s. Susan did not want to change her phone number for fear that
Amy would try to call and not be able to find her. She grasped to any
hope that her daughter was alive, including dealing with this bastard
who lied and stated he knew what happened to Amy and where she was. For
years, he had her hoping Amy was still alive. She went to her death
never knowing what happened to her daughter.
I don't have any anger towards these women for keeping their children
in the public eye when there are others who might be found. I don't
think of them as stupid. I think of them as desperate to find out what
happened to their children and that would make anyone a bit crazy.
Hester Mofet
Kris Baker
"Robert St. James (la ira de Dios)" <robert...@gmail.com> wrote in
message news:1157432426....@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com...
True, and the chance of finding remains after all of this time, is
about zero. That's actually what keeps her going: the non-
proof of death.
Kris
Kris Baker
>
> Philadelphia Daily News (PA) - October 16, 1984
>
> NEWSPAPER AIDE FIRED IN PROBE
> Iowa's largest newspaper today released the name of of an employee
> who allegedly admitted taking advantage of seven young paperboys but
> authorities said they didn't think the man was involved in the
> disappearance of two youths.Private investigator Sam Soda told a news
> conference yesterday an employee of the Des Moines Register,
"We don't think the man was involved....." and this was 1984, and
there was no DNA.........
Kris
Kris Baker
"Chocolic" <chatter448@nospam@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:TQ7Lg.22323$mY1...@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
You're right; no fear. They look like three kids tied up as a joke,
and a picture taken. Maybe some role-playing thing. The other
photo of the girl and boy in the van, showed fear.
The single picture boy could be wearing sweats, but from reading
Noreen's description, that's a blow-up of a second picture that
was supposedly taken at the same time. If it isn't, what does it
have to do with the picture of the three boys? Is the single
boy supposed to be the boy on the left, in the other photo?
Kris
Kris Baker
These cases remind me *so much* of the five missing Utah boys in the late
1970s and early 1980s. One by one, from around SLC, they disappeared.
Parents were accused, there was an article in People magazine, and it
wouldn't have been solved until "Arthur Downs" went to police with an offer
to help solve the crimes.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_Gary_Bishop
http://www.crimelibrary.com/serial_killers/predators/arthur_bishop/1.html
Police hadn't even linked these boys, yet one predator had taken them all.
Interestingly, he blamed pornography yet he actually seemed to be a
pedophile version of Ted Bundy, who'd been working our area in the recent
past.
Kris
Kris Baker
"~^ Nightflyer^~" <~^..^~@FbN.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.1f66dbeec...@news.west.cox.net...
>
> On Mon, 04 Sep 2006 23:05:04 GMT "Kris Baker" carefully wrote:
> <Ai2Lg.5673$tU....@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com>...
>
> |This is strange. Why would the guy pick on the kid with the growling
> |dog? Why did the man pull up to the group of boys, and ask only
> |Johnny for directions? Where was the adult, or did he just
> |drop the papers and drive away?
> |
> |I dunno......almost everything else is post-internet and full of the
> |conspiracies.
> |
> |Kris
> |
> dropped
> and left for the carriers to pick up later.
> --
> Nightflyer
My brother was a paper boy (for a month), and he had to go meet a truck
and haul his batch out of the back. The boys had to be there within a
five-minute span, so the truck could go to its next location. If they were
late, the batch was dumped for them to pick up later.
Kris
Kris Baker
>
(gentle snippage)
>
> I don't have any anger towards these women for keeping their children
> in the public eye when there are others who might be found. I don't
> think of them as stupid. I think of them as desperate to find out what
> happened to their children and that would make anyone a bit crazy.
>
> Hester Mofet
Well said. I don't have anger, just pity. Amy Billig's mother
was the saddest of all, what with that stalker; Noreen has been
taken advantage of by people who preyed on her fragile mental
state.
The downside is that other cases, which should have been
publicized, have kind of been "eaten up" by this coverage (and
I'm including the John Karr mess, too).
Kris
Chocolic
I thought read somewhere Gosch's mother thought the lone boy and the
boy on the far right of the threesome were the same. But I think the
one on the left looks more like the lone boy's picture. Also note the
shoes on the lone boy and the shoes on the boy on the right of the
threesome. They look kind of strange, like a bootie. Anyway, maybe
it's just wishful thinking on my part that the threesome is staged. I
hope it is.
Chocolic
Kris Baker
I can't see shoes on the lone boy, but I agree that the boy on
the right, in the threesome, is wearing some kind of odd slipper....
at least odd for a boy. I have some fuzzy pull-on sheepskin
winter slippers that look a lot like that. They were purchased
about ten years ago.
Kris
Chocolic
Check it in this picture: http://www.johnnygosch.com/
Chocolic
earthage
Anyone remember Kevin Collins. He was 10 and went missing from San
Francisco in 1984 and was one of the first faces placed on the milk
cartons. Late last year a man was prosecuted for passport fraud using
Collins name.
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2006/02/10/BAGDKH6AC21.DTL
Excerpts from the San Francisco Chronicle:
"I think it's despicable that this guy saw my son's name on a Web site
and figured that was 22 years ago, so nobody cares anymore," said Ann
Collins, Kevin's mother. "I guess he didn't realize my son was on the
cover of Newsweek (in 1984) and that thankfully some people remember
him."
According to U.S. District Court records, Mofrad used Collins' name on
Sept. 2 to apply for a passport using his own photo. He also used
Collins' date of birth, hometown, parents' names and Social Security
number.
A quick-thinking State Department clerk who remembered the Collins
abduction became suspicious and referred it to Depenbrock and Agent
Jeffrey Dubsick.
snip
Mofrad pleaded guilty to charges in the two cases on Nov. 14. Mofrad
apologized to Collins' mother, who attended the hearing in Oakland with
relatives. U.S. District Judge Saundra Brown Armstrong ordered Mofrad
to pay nearly $700,000 in restitution and court costs.
"I'm glad he said he's sorry, but I think he's just sorry he got
caught," Ann Collins said. "It's despicable that he stole the only
thing Kevin had left -- his name. Kevin never got to work. Kevin never
got to drive a car. But this thief comes along and wants to steal his
name so he can escape the law."
earthage
I wonder why John Gosch Sr didn't tell his then wife what he was doing.
But this took place in 1991 and the 1988 People Magazine said their
marriage had been strained by the stress.
Excerpt from People 10-10-1988:
The stress severely strained the marriage of Noreen and John, 44, a
salesman for an
agricultural supply company, and the expenses of publicizing the case
and hiring a private investigator have depleted their savings. By
holding fund-raisers and selling candy, friends and relatives have
helped the Gosches raise the $200,000 they have spent on their cause so
far.
snip
At first the shock of living without our child dominated every thought
and feeling. John and I felt guilty for every comfort we had that
Johnny might not have. John began to withdraw, and I felt that I had
lost my husband as well as my son. His feelings were numbed from grief
and despair. Finally I said to him, ''Our son is out there and he needs
our help.'' He realized I was right, and it rekindled his fighting
spirit.
Chocolic
Back in my day, my brother was also a paperboy and sometimes I would
help. The trucks would go to different corners and dump their load of
papers for the carriers to pick up. Sometimes they were still there
and oftentimes not. Also, *back in my day* the papers were delivered
after school while it was still light out, so there wasn't the danger
of, or fear of, kidnappings, rapes, or whatever.
Chocolic
earthage
He was kidnapped while picking up the Sunday morning paper, that's
why it was dark. During the week, the paper was delivered in the
afternoon after school. The other boy, Eugene Martin, that disappeared
the next year from Des Moines was also delivering the Sunday morning
paper.
JonesieCat
Back in my day, I was relief paper-carrier. And it was still dark in our
small town when we all rode our bikes to a platform outside the post office.
The papers were thrown off the platform in bundles all over the place. We
each folded them and stuck 'em in the grey pouches slung over our shoulders
and rode off again to throw them on to porches (or wherever they landed).
This was 4 or so decades ago. Oh man. jc
JonesieCat
Oooo, I wonder if that "quick-thinking State Department clerk who remembered
the Collins
abduction" ever hangs out here. She/he is the kinda person we need more of
here at atc. Hey, maybe he/she's already a regular. It could happen. jc
earthage
Maybe it's Bo. I guess not, they did say "quick-thinking."
cmashiel...@hotmail.com
Johnny Gosch break loose from his captors a few days later, long enough
to shout his name to two women, and was immediately recaptured before
the witnesses could do anything?
Cori
JonesieCat
hahahaha! I'm surprised at you, picking on poor ole Bo like that! hahaha! jc
EnEss
Not that I'm aware of. The only thing I know of in regard to later clues
that JG might be alive somwhere is the following:
--a bill of currency turning up that had the message "I am alive John
Gosch" scribbled on it in the corner, either a year or 2 after his
disappearance;
--a phone call Mrs. Gosch received years after the abduction in which she
reported a young male's voice sounding like Johnny's saying his name to her
and then the call was suddenly cut off. The call could not be traced;
--the late-night visitation Mrs. Gosch reported getting from 2 young men,
one of whom identified himself as her son, saying he could not stay long and
has to remain in hiding, keeping his identity a secret forever, to protect
his life.
Of the 3 things, the only 1 of them I know for certain happened was the bill
w/ the name on it because I remember the story in the news when it happened.
The manager of a store of some kind, like a grocery store, found the bill
and called police. There was a photo if it in the paper w/ the message on
it. So I know it existed and could not have been invented by either of
Johnny's parents. The authenticity of the bill was never proved.
I don't recall hearing anything about a reported sighting after the
abduction of a boy breaking away and calling out his name to anyone before
being recaptured. But I could've missed (or forgotten) this one.
NS
(add sbc before global to email)
cmashiel...@hotmail.com
> <cmashieldscapting wrote:
> > Maybe it's my mistake due to the case being so long ago, but didn't
> > Johnny Gosch break loose from his captors a few days later, long enough
> > to shout his name to two women, and was immediately recaptured before
> > the witnesses could do anything?
>
> Not that I'm aware of.
> I don't recall hearing anything about a reported sighting after the
> abduction of a boy breaking away and calling out his name to anyone before
> being recaptured. But I could've missed (or forgotten) this one.
>
> NS
Does anyone remember such a report? I remember one involving a missing
newspaper carrier I was sure was Johnny Gosch.
Cori
Kris Baker
<cmashiel...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1157614971.3...@e3g2000cwe.googlegroups.com...
I've Googled, and can't find anything like that. The only one
I can remember escaping, is Steven Stayner.
Kris
Chocolic
Didn't that little boy break away, the one that was kidnapped in the
mall, and call out for help and was ignored as the people thought he
was just with his brothers or something like that.
Chocolic
Kris Baker
"~^ Nightflyer^~" <~^..^~@FbN.com> wrote in message
>
> On Wed, 06 Sep 2006 04:15:13 GMT "Chocolic" carefully wrote:
> <lXrLg.60484$5i3....@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>...
>
> |Back in my day, my brother was also a paperboy and sometimes I would
> |help. The trucks would go to different corners and dump their load of
> |papers for the carriers to pick up. Sometimes they were still there
> |and oftentimes not. Also, *back in my day* the papers were delivered
> |after school while it was still light out, so there wasn't the danger
> |of, or fear of, kidnappings, rapes, or whatever.
> |
> |Chocolic
> |
> remember seeing parents in cars or on bikes along with the carriers as
> winter
> arrived and dark came early. Not always but enough to make me remember
> it.
> --
> Nightflyer
That's how it was here, too. Newspaper delivered right after school,
and if it wasn't on Granny's porch at 4:30pm, she called the newspaper
office.
Now, everything's morning papers (which contain nothing but news
you already heard yesterday) delivered too early for young kids to
be out. Ours are delivered by adults driving cars.
Kris
Chocolic
"~^ Nightflyer^~" <~^..^~@FbN.com> wrote in message
>
> On Fri, 8 Sep 2006 15:16:35 -0700 "~^ Nightflyer^~" carefully wrote:
> <MPG.1f6b8b9cc...@news.west.cox.net>...
>
> |
> | On Wed, 06 Sep 2006 02:33:30 GMT "Chocolic" carefully wrote:
> | <_rqLg.59882$5i3....@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>...
> |
> ||> I can't see shoes on the lone boy, but I agree that the boy on
> ||> the right, in the threesome, is wearing some kind of odd
> slipper....
> ||> at least odd for a boy. I have some fuzzy pull-on sheepskin
> ||> winter slippers that look a lot like that. They were purchased
> ||> about ten years ago.
> ||>
> ||> Kris
> ||>
> ||
> ||Check it in this picture: http://www.johnnygosch.com/
> ||
> ||Chocolic
> ||
> sock with a
> |very dirty splotch(if it's real I hope it's dirt). The beige jeans
> leg is
> |over the sock and the restraint is over the jeans with the bottom
> "flap" of
> |jeans sort of smooshing out making it look like those slippers-I
> have 'em,
> |too. The other foot is bare. I wondered about the goldish stripe
> down the
> |leg but blown up it's chain of some sort. Not a heavy chain but
> more sort of
> |decorative, not a part of the jeans. And yes, *this* boy looks more
> like the
> |boy in the single shot. Maybe the pic got flipped? The poor mom
> sure got
> |flipped. Sorry, that's bad.
> |
> Correcting my long-winded self: The boy in the single and the boy on
> the
> *left* look alike. The beige jeans boy looks nothing like the
> single shot,
> at least to me. And maybe not a chain, but the bed covering bunched
> up and
> caught between his legs. All the clothing looks a bit "of". The
> boy in the
> middle has on a T-shirt with what appears to be some girly-looking
> cartoons.
> Nothing seems right in the 3 shot, but the single looks frightened
> and in
> sweats...I will shut up now.
> --
> Nightflyer
>
>
I've tried to figure out the chain looking thing on the boy's beige
pants. I've looked at it at all angles and just can't make out what
it is. You are right, it appears it's a sock rather than a bootie and
the lone boy is barefooted.
I use MS PictureIt, wish I had Photoshop too.
Chocolic
Chocolic
"~^ Nightflyer^~" <~^..^~@FbN.com> wrote in message
>
> On Fri, 08 Sep 2006 02:09:03 GMT "Chocolic" carefully wrote:
> <3h4Mg.7128$QM6....@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>...
> remember
> any details.
> --
> ~^..^~ Nightflyer
We had a little papergirl in our town kidnapped, raped and murdered a
few years back. It was awful.
Chocolic
Kris Baker
"Chocolic" <chatter448@nospam@hotmail.com> wrote in
message news:RisMg.12282$QM6....@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
>
> We had a little papergirl in our town kidnapped, raped and murdered a few
> years back. It was awful.
>
> Chocolic
There was also the case a few years ago, that we discussed here,
that took place in Gering, Nebraska. (see below)
There's NO way kids should be delivering papers, and it has nothing
to do with "this day and age". They've been targets of crime for years.
When I was growing up, a papergirl was kidnapped, raped but
luckily set free (naked, on a major highway). The perp was never
caught.
----------------------------------------------
From: tiny dancer - view profile
Date: Wed, Feb 12 2003 11:51 pm
Email: "tiny dancer" <tinydancer...@nospamhotmail.com>
Groups: alt.true-crime
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Neb. Cops Find Girl's Body, Make Arrest
GERING, Neb. (AP) - Police found the body of a missing 15-year-old newspaper
carrier in an abandoned house Wednesday, and later arrested a man suspected
of killing her.
The body of Heather Guerrero was found Wednesday morning by her uncle and
another family member, Scotts Bluff County prosecutor Doug Warner said at a
news conference.
Warner said the girl's body was found in the basement of the western
Nebraska house and that someone had killed her, but would not say how she
died.
Jeffrey A. Hessler, 24, of Gering, was arrested on suspicion of first-degree
murder, kidnapping, rape and weapons counts, prosecutors said. A Nebraska
State Patrol investigator and a Scottsbluff police detective recovered a gun
when they made the arrest, but no other details were immediately released.
The house where Guerrero's body was found is in Lake Minatare, about 12
miles from Gering, where she disappeared the day before while delivering
newspapers.
Heather was last seen before 6 a.m. Tuesday when she began her paper route.
Her parents called police about an hour later when she didn't return home.
Police Chief Mel Griggs has said witnesses saw a car speeding from the area.
Last August, another carrier for the same newspaper, the Scottsbluff
Star-Herald - also a 15-year-old girl - was sexually assaulted while at work
in the pre-dawn hours, police said. That case remains unsolved.
cmashiel...@hotmail.com
Kris Baker wrote:
> "Chocolic" <chatter448@nospam@hotmail.com> wrote in
> message news:RisMg.12282$QM6....@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> >
> > We had a little papergirl in our town kidnapped, raped and murdered a few
> > years back. It was awful.
> >
> > Chocolic
>
> There was also the case a few years ago, that we discussed here,
> that took place in Gering, Nebraska. (see below)
>
> There's NO way kids should be delivering papers, and it has nothing
> to do with "this day and age". They've been targets of crime for years.
> When I was growing up, a papergirl was kidnapped, raped but
> luckily set free (naked, on a major highway). The perp was never
> caught.
My ex-brother-in-law told of a case where a 13-year-old newspaper
carrier girl was killed, dismembered, and the parts left along the road
in garbage bags. The killer was caught because he photographed the
whole thing, then arranged the pictures along a mantelpiece where they
were discovered by the landlady! I believe this would have been in
Spokane, Washington, probably in the 1980s.
There was also a case where a girl the same age, I believe, carrying
newspapers, was assaulted and repeatedly raped and her bra stolen. The
judge gave the perpetrator the full sentence for each crime, including
separate counts for kidnapping, each rape, and theft. He told the
perpetrator he hoped he "enjoyed his souvenir" because he could spend
his last 25 years in prison thinking about stealing the bra!
Cori
Chocolic
>
> "Chocolic" <chatter448@nospam@hotmail.com> wrote in
> message
> news:RisMg.12282$QM6....@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
>>
>> We had a little papergirl in our town kidnapped, raped and murdered
>> a few years back. It was awful.
>>
>> Chocolic
>
> There was also the case a few years ago, that we discussed here,
> that took place in Gering, Nebraska. (see below)
>
> There's NO way kids should be delivering papers, and it has nothing
> to do with "this day and age". They've been targets of crime for
> years.
> When I was growing up, a papergirl was kidnapped, raped but
> luckily set free (naked, on a major highway). The perp was never
> caught.
>
neighborhoods when the papers were delivered in the afternoon. The
little girl I mentioned was only 8 years old. Waaaaay too young to be
delivering papers in the dark early mornings hours. That happened
right after the deliveries changed from evening hours to morning
hours.
Chocolic
EnEss
"Kris Baker" wrote:
> What I'm questioning in the supposed-Gosch images is the fact
> that Noreen wants the boy in the photo on the left, to be also one
> of the boys in the photo of the three.....and if that's true, someone
> changed clothes while being bound.
Just to play devil's advocate here, what's to say the photos were taken the
same day?
I read some blog somewhere by a commentator saying it defies logic that an
abductor would provide a change of clothes for a hostage/hostages. But if
the victim was abducted for the purpose of use in a pedophile sex slave
scheme and would be holding the hostage indefiinitely, I could believe other
clothes might be provided.
I do think the boy in the photo alone wearing sweat pants does appear to be
the same one in the group photo who's on the right edge, wearing white jeans
and a football jersey. And that boy does bear a strong resemblance to Johnny
Gosch, IMO, based on the photos I've seen of JG.
OTOH, that in itself does not preclude a hoax. All it would mean is that
whoever perpetrated the hoax worked extra hard to find a "model" for both
photos who looks a lot like the real missing child, and appears to be about
the same age.
> I really think someone's hoaxing in the Gosch case.....and it's sad,
> because there are missing kids out there who are probably dead.
I think it could be a hoax, too, having given it some thought. If whoever
made the photos only released the one of the single boy, wearing sweat
pants. I think any of us could imagine that Johnny's abductor held him
captive for any length of time--long enough to take him somewhere and
photograph him. This as opposed to assaulting him immediately, killing him
immediately after and burying him somewhere never uncovered.
But the second photo, the one w/ 2 other boys on it, all of them gagged and
bound on the bed, was included too for what could only be one purpose: to
send the clear and unmistakable message that Johnny was held for longer than
a day, along w/ other captives for some period of time as part of what could
likely be some kind of pornography or sex slave underground
enterprise---well known to be the believed theory held by Noreen Gosch. I
could see some seriously twisted sadist out to feed that belief, just to
mess w/ her head. And maybe w/ the police.
And, yeah, that is terribly sad...and so incredibly sick and sadistic. Which
lends weight to the conclusion, IMO, that it is more likely a hoax.
> Who thinks that John Wayne Gacy was the only multi-child
> predator of that time? But the thought that there's some sort
> of government conspiracy taking boys from *Iowa* when they're
> readily available everywhere, just seems odd.
I think it's not at all unlikely that the same person responsibile for JG's
abduction is the same one who snatched Eugene Martin a year later. And I
agree the idea of an individual pedophile who likes boys around 12 and found
newspaper delivery pre-teens boys to be a perfect target for easy pickings,
abducting, molesting, killing and hiding the bodies w/o a trace even to this
day is a lot more likely than the pedophile ring. The government conspiracy
angle is beyond absurd, not even warranting discussions.
My husband uses a few political discussion e-lists and was telling me
recently how insane and unbelievable it is how many users of the list who
demonstrate a fair amount of intelligence swear they believe no hijackers
crashed planes into any buildings on 9-11 and say instead the US gov't. flew
missiles into its own buildings, following up w/ planted explosives to bring
the towers to the ground as a means for starting a war in the Middle East.
It's shocking the nutty things people can believe.
-L.
~^ Nightflyer^~ wrote:
> |
> Correcting my long-winded self: The boy in the single and the boy on the
> *left* look alike. The beige jeans boy looks nothing like the single shot,
> at least to me. And maybe not a chain, but the bed covering bunched up and
> caught between his legs. All the clothing looks a bit "of". The boy in the
> middle has on a T-shirt with what appears to be some girly-looking cartoons.
> Nothing seems right in the 3 shot, but the single looks frightened and in
> sweats...I will shut up now.
> --
> Nightflyer
When you download the pic with the single boy, the names of the file is
"JT". Wonder why that is...
-L.