Help with info on a murder
IBegg2Differ
This case is something I'm just curious about the details of and I can find
*none* of them anywhere. It's making me crazy, probably just because I can't
find anything...lol. Anyway, if anyone here is really good at researching this
stuff, I'm trying to find the details of the crime and the name of the victim.
Here's how I got interested: I got a phone call the other night from a friend
asking me if I could verify a rumour she'd heard. The story was that a girl
(woman now of course) that we both went to high school with had murdered her
husband. Supposedly she convinced everyone at the time that it was an accident
and got away with it, but she confessed over ten years later and is now in
prison. I was *very* curious, as anyone who'd known this girl would have been.
She was *perfect* in high school, and I mean that. Beautiful, good student,
good family, very wealthy, and friendly to boot. Sheesh.
I hunted around online and verified that the rumour was true. What I *can't*
find, however, are any details of the crime. I can't even find out the name of
the victim (sure would like to know if he was someone from our school as well).
I am soooo curious, and any help would be very much appreciated.
Here's what I *do* know:
* This woman's name was Michele Lynne Ritzenthaler in high school and is now
Michele Lynne Millikan.
* The murder would have taken place in Arizona (most likely Scottsdale or
Phoenix) some time between 1985 and 1991.
* Michele was having an affair at the time of the murder.
* She remarried at some point after the murder to a man named Nate Millikan,
who is *not* the man she was having an affair with. She is still married to
Nate.
* Michele was heavily involved with an organization called Victorious
Christian Living (VCL) throughout the 1990's in Phoenix, and may have met her
current husband through VCL.
* Michele confessed to the murder, first to friends and family and then to the
authorities, sometime in 2001.
* In August of 2001 Michele was indicted for first degree murder, but
negotiated a plea bargain in 2002, reducing the charge to second degree murder,
for which she was sentenced to 18 years.
* Michele went to prison in June of 2002 (Perryville Prison in Arizona).
* Info on Michele (spelled "Michelle" with two L's) on the Arizona Department
of Corrections web site lists one of her aliases as "Michelle Helton", so her
first husband's name may have been Helton.
* People named Donna Helton and Steve Helton testified at Michele's sentencing
hearing, furthering my suspicion that the victim's name may have been Helton.
* In 1990, Donna Helton petitioned the court in Arizona (probate court) to
become the legal guardian of a minor named Christa Potts. I don't know if this
is related to the case or not, but the timing would be right if this were a
child of Michele's deceased husband, although this is the only reference to the
name "Potts" that I have seen.
* I can find no record in the Social Security Death Index of a male named
Helton who died in Arizona within the right time frame to match this case.
* I can find no cemetery record for a male named Helton in Arizona with the
right time frame, either.
And that's where I am. I can't find anything else. I'd really, really, like
to know who the victim was and how he was killed. Anyone here have a little
too much time on their hands and an inclination to do a little research?
Kris Baker
"IBegg2Differ" <ibegg2...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20030612181439...@mb-m17.aol.com...
>
> I hunted around online and verified that the rumour was true.
Interesting, but how about letting us know where you've already
searched so we don't duplicate?
I hate unsolved mysteries....
Kris
IBegg2Differ
>
> Interesting, but how about letting us know where you've already
> searched so we don't duplicate?
>
> I hate unsolved mysteries....
>
>Kris
Sorry, Kris. First, searching using her maiden name (Ritzenthaler), I found
photos of her at www.GAMfamily.com. If you go there, click "Family-Friends"
and then "Ritzenthaler Family", or just go to
http://www.nucellformulas.com/gamfamily/Friends%20M-N-O.htm (I don't know how
to post that as a link). That's how I found out her name is now Millikan.
Looking under the name Millikan, I searched for info in the courts for Arizona
(civil, criminal, family and probate) and the Department of Corrections for
Arizona. That's where I got most of my info.
I tried searches using Google, Dogpile, Yahoo and Altavista for Michele with
one "L" and with two, along with the last names Ritzenthaler, Millikan, and
Helton. I've searched the SSDI and findagrave.com for Helton (no luck).
Do you have any more ideas?
IBegg2Differ
>http://www.nucellformulas.com/gamfamily/Friends%20M-N-O.htm (I don't know how
>to post that as a link).
Hey! It posted as a link anyway! Well, I'll be. Nevermind.
IBegg2Differ
Michele, mostly for family and friends to keep up to date apparently, but
doesn't have any details about her crime or victim.
Kris Baker
> >> I hunted around online and verified that the rumour was true.
> >
> > Interesting, but how about letting us know where you've already
> > searched so we don't duplicate?
> >
> > I hate unsolved mysteries....
> >
> >Kris
>
> Sorry, Kris. First, searching using her maiden name (Ritzenthaler), I
found
> photos of her at www.GAMfamily.com. If you go there, click
"Family-Friends"
> and then "Ritzenthaler Family", or just go to
> http://www.nucellformulas.com/gamfamily/Friends%20M-N-O.htm
"Nate" Millikan is most likely Nathan....and there IS
someone with an xxxxxx n. Millikan in the Arizona
phone directories.
But....don't lean too much on the spelling on a web
page. "Millikan" could be Millikin, Milikin, Milican,
etc.
I see that her name is spelled with two ls on that page,
also --- so if that's not correct (or is actually correct),
there's a spelling problem somewhere ;)
Also: the names you have do not have "Wayne" in the
middle...add that ;)
Seriously, names that hit the news like that always
use the middle name, so there could be many variations
on these.
> Do you have any more ideas?
Yes. Potts.
I'm thinking that Christa Potts may be her own child, with
the Heltons being her relations (sister?).
I see that the Ritzenthaler name is mentioned all over
hell, on many Christian websites.
Kris
Kris Baker
Urp!
"If you'd like to financially bless Michele in prison...."
The prayer list....ugh! As if she's better than anyone else
in there? Yes, I understand faith.
Asking for prayers to protect her (a murderer?) from the
swearing in prison?
Kris
flick
> WARNING: This is gonna be long (LOL).
>
> This case is something I'm just curious about the details of and I can
find
> *none* of them anywhere. It's making me crazy, probably just because I
can't
> find anything...lol. Anyway, if anyone here is really good at researching
this
> stuff, I'm trying to find the details of the crime and the name of the
victim.
<snipped>
Get a PACER account, if possible. This will enable you to look up online
the case number and read at least some of the court documents, most likely.
The charge is only about seven cents a page for what you look at, and you
can save it to your computer or print it out. You should be able to find
some of the info you want about the case that way.
http://pacer.psc.uscourts.gov/
<snip>
> * I can find no record in the Social Security Death Index of a male named
> Helton who died in Arizona within the right time frame to match this case.
afaik, there isn't always a record in the SSDI - for instance, if no one is
claiming SS benefits because of the person's death.
> And that's where I am. I can't find anything else. I'd really, really,
like
> to know who the victim was and how he was killed. Anyone here have a
little
> too much time on their hands and an inclination to do a little research?
try PACER; should be who and how on the indictment.
paul 100785
Kris Baker
"flick" <fl...@starband.net> wrote in message
news:%OaGa.2727$Xt1.108...@twister1.starband.net...
>
> Get a PACER account, if possible. This will enable you to look up online
> the case number and read at least some of the court documents, most
likely.
> The charge is only about seven cents a page for what you look at, and you
> can save it to your computer or print it out. You should be able to find
> some of the info you want about the case that way.
>
> http://pacer.psc.uscourts.gov/
>
That URL didn't work for me, but this did:
http://pacer.uspci.uscourts.gov/
Would PACER have records of an Arizona criminal case, in
addition to the US Federal Court records mentioned on the
site?
Kris
Kris Baker
http://www.superiorcourt.maricopa.gov/docket/criminal/caseInfo.asp?caseNumber=CR2001-012103
Crime occurred on/about 25 May 1993
Phoenix PD investigated, DR 30321585
Kris
Kris Baker
http://156.42.40.50/UnOfficialDocs/pdf/98-1005967_1.pdf
Property filing. Nate is "Nathan L"
Wife's legal name recorded as "Michele L"
Kris
Libbertine
>one "L" and with two, along with the last names Ritzenthaler, Millikan, and
>Helton. I've searched the SSDI and findagrave.com for Helton (no luck).
>
>Do you have any more ideas?
>
only saw a 7-day archive on their online edition of the paper, but maybe you
could contact them to find out how to get old articles from when the murder
took place. http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/
Chocolic
Alright, you did it, I'm obsessed. I love to search for stuff. I have
been searching for a couple hours. This is killing me. This sounds so
interesting and I am so curious as to why she killed him. There ~has~ to
be something somewhere on the internet (I mean the story) as it wasn't all
that long ago. She is physically a very beautiful girl and it sounds like
she had everything going for her. I am curious as to what led up to the
killing - abuse maybe? or did she have some mental disease, or was it an
accident after a fight. In some of those pics I looked at it shows her and
Nate with four kids. I wonder if they are their kids? Whoever built the
web page dedicated to her on the nateandmichelle.com site is a tad too
religious for my blood, almost obsessively so. Let us know anything else
you find out.
Chocolic
E-Brake
news:lNbGa.2323$EV5....@newssvr19.news.prodigy.com...
The Helton/Potts petition for guardianship in 1990 looks to be about 3 years
before the murder and may indeed be unrelated.
I found this info - which looks like her husband's name may have indeed been
"Helton" - at
http://www.adc.state.az.us/cgi-bin/IAliases.cgi/129374452441030608
Aliases
Inmate: 167916 MILLIKAN, MICHELLE
Name Identification Category
MILLIKAN, MICHELLE LYNNE LEGAL INMATE
MIKKIKAN, MICHELLE LYNN COMMIT. INMATE
MILLIKAN, MICHELLE LYNN COMMIT. INMATE
HELTON, MICHELLE ALIAS INMATE
RITZENTHALER, MICHELLE LYNNE ALIAS INMATE
IBegg2Differ
>the case number and read at least some of the court documents, most likely.
>The charge is only about seven cents a page for what you look at, and you
>can save it to your computer or print it out. You should be able to find
>some of the info you want about the case that way.
Thanks for the advice, but I don't do this kind of "stuff" all that often, so
it didn't seem like something worth opening an account over. Anyway, though,
would PACER enable me to view any additional docs that I can't already get at
the court web sites?
IBegg2Differ
I cannot believe I missed that notation about when the crime occurred! I
stared and stared at that page even before I posted here, but I just didn't see
it there at the bottom. Duh. ;)
IBegg2Differ
Wow, how did you find that? Keep in mind, though, that Nate is her husband
*now*, not the husband she killed. That's the name I am really interested in
finding.
Still, though, I'd like to know how you got to that doc. Looks like something
that could come in handy sometime.
IBegg2Differ
> someone with an xxxxxx n. Millikan in the Arizona
> phone directories.
Yes, but remember: Nate's not who we're looking for. He's the new husband.
<snip>
>I see that her name is spelled with two ls on that page,
> also --- so if that's not correct (or is actually correct),
> there's a spelling problem somewhere ;)
As far as I have always known, Michele spells her name with one "L". I'm
certain that's the correct spelling, now that I think about it, because that's
how her sister spells it on her web site. Obviously, it's spelled incorrectly
in a lot of docs, so I keep searching with both spellings.
>Also: the names you have do not have "Wayne" in the
> middle...add that ;)
LOL. Good point. ;)
>Seriously, names that hit the news like that always
> use the middle name, so there could be many variations
> on these.
Yes, and even her middle name is one that gets misspelled a lot, unfortunately.
She spells it "Lynne", but it shows up as "Lynn" in several places. Makes
searching even harder.
>> Do you have any more ideas?
>
> Yes. Potts.
>
> I'm thinking that Christa Potts may be her own child, with
> the Heltons being her relations (sister?).
I don't think so, and here's why: This Christa Potts was apparently in need of
a guardian in 1991, but Michelle didn't have any legal trouble at all until
2001. Now that you have pointed out that the crime happened in 1993, though, I
guess Christa Potts is probably irrelevant. Must be just some other matter
that this Donna Helton was involved with.
The reason I was guessing Michele's first husband may have been named Helton
was because the Arizona Department of Corrections lists three last names for
Michele: Ritzenthaler, Millikan, and Helton. Ritzenthaler is her maiden name,
Millikan is her current husband's name, so Helton...???
>I see that the Ritzenthaler name is mentioned all over
> hell, on many Christian websites.
>
>Kris
Yep, they're a big movin' and shakin' kind of family in the Christian circles
of Phoenix and Scottsdale. Very wealthy, too, but always seemingly very nice
people.
IBegg2Differ
>only saw a 7-day archive on their online edition of the paper, but maybe you
>could contact them to find out how to get old articles from when the murder
>took place. http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/
>
Yeah, I know. I looked around their site for any possible way to search old
archives, even for a fee, but couldn't find anything. I guess I'd have to
e-mail them to find out if it's possible. I might do that if there doesn't
seem to be any "free" info available online. I thought first I'd see what
others could find.
IBegg2Differ
Yes, I didn't particularly like the general "tone" of the site, either. As was
pointed out to me by my friend, though, keep in mind that this site is run by
Michele's sister who absolutely adores her. It's not surprising that, in spite
of what she's done, her sister might feel protective of her as well as wanting
to paint a glowing picture. But yeah, I agree it kind of makes you want to
barf.
IBegg2Differ
Hehehehe. ;)
>I have
>been searching for a couple hours. This is killing me. This sounds so
>interesting and I am so curious as to why she killed him.
Well, I'm just glad someone knows how I feel. LOL. This thing's been driving
me nuts.
>There ~has~ to
>be something somewhere on the internet (I mean the story) as it wasn't all
>that long ago.
You would think, huh? And the fact that she got flat-out away with it, Scott
free and everything, and then *confessed* years later! You'd think that factor
alone would make it newsworthy. I mean, that just doesn't happen every day.
>She is physically a very beautiful girl and it sounds like
>she had everything going for her.
Yep. You have no idea. LOL. She had *everything* going for her.
>I am curious as to what led up to the
>killing - abuse maybe? or did she have some mental disease, or was it an
>accident after a fight.
She was having an affair. Whether the affair was the motive for the muder or
not I do not know. For whatever reason, she did not end up marrying the man
she had the affair with.
> In some of those pics I looked at it shows her and
>Nate with four kids. I wonder if they are their kids?
From what I understand, they are.
>Whoever built the
>web page dedicated to her on the nateandmichelle.com site is a tad too
>religious for my blood, almost obsessively so.
It's her sister. The whole family is very, very religious. IMO they don't
normally come across as "obsessively so", but I'm sure the last couple of years
(since she confessed and opened this Pandora's box) have been highly emotional
for all of them, so it wouldn't surprise me if they get a little
"ultra-spiritual" during a crisis.
>Let us know anything else
>you find out.
>
>Chocolic
>
Will do. You just make sure you do the same if *you* find anything. ;)
Kris Baker
> >More
> >http://156.42.40.50/UnOfficialDocs/pdf/98-1005967_1.pdf
> >
> >Property filing. Nate is "Nathan L"
> >Wife's legal name recorded as "Michele L"
>
> Wow, how did you find that?
I found it via google, which popped up this link:
http://www.searchsystems.net/list.php?nid=69
Maricopa County is about halfway down. You can get all
kinds of info there, with a search on each link.
"Case History" is the best search on each link.
For instance, here's all the probate records for Helton in
Maricopa County:
http://www.superiorcourt.maricopa.gov/docket/probate/caseSearchResults.asp?lastName=helton&FirstName=&x=78&y=13
I searched through a few of them, but found nothing. I
also searched for Potts....there's a ton.
> Keep in mind, though, that Nate is her husband *now*,
> not the husband she killed. That's the name I am really interested in
> finding.
I know -- but having legal names for someone often makes it
easier to find other info.
Actually....writing to her sister via the web page and just flat-out
asking "so I can pray for everyone involved" may work, too ;)
Kris
flick
> Would PACER have records of an Arizona criminal case, in
> addition to the US Federal Court records mentioned on the
> site?
>
> Kris
Whoops, no, they don't have state/county courts. sorry :-(.
flick 100785
No1sBish
"Kris Baker" <kris....@prodigyy.net> wrote:
> I found it via google, which popped up this link:
> http://www.searchsystems.net/list.php?nid=69
Quick note to thank you for posting this link. I backed it out to the
home page and found all the states listed, as well as other countries.
I'm embarrassed to tell you how long I've been looking for a site like
this. For reasons other than ATC, it's truly invaluable to me.
Obviously, I need to hone my googling skills! Thank you again.
Dana
I've checked everything I can think of and can only find what's been
listed here, already...public records, etc. and still no victims name!
It's amazing to me that something like this isn't mentioned anywhere
on local news sites -- I've checked all TV stations and newspapers
(except Arizona Republic archives which are down).
You would think that the story of a woman who confessed to a murder
she had gotten away with would be newsworthy. Do you think it may
have been kept "quiet" so as not to embarrass local authorites who
"missed" a murder?
IBegg2Differ
>asking "so I can pray for everyone involved" may work, too ;)
>
>Kris
Hehehe good idea. Hmmm... maybe. ;)
Kris Baker
"Dear xxxxxxx
I'm a friend of Michele's from high school, and want you
to know how sorry I am to hear of this. I want to pray,
but I want to include the victim. Can you tell me who
to pray for?
Yours in Christ
Your Name
Your Address
Anywhere, USA"
IBegg2Differ
>have been kept "quiet" so as not to embarrass local authorites who
>"missed" a murder?
Hmmm...could be I guess. I hadn't thought of that.
I may try to get a little time away during business hours and go on down to the
courthouse myself. I've pulled files down there before on civil cases, but
does anyone know how much is normally readily available to the public in a
criminal case?
IBegg2Differ
>to know how sorry I am to hear of this. I want to pray,
>but I want to include the victim. Can you tell me who
>to pray for?
>
>Yours in Christ
>Your Name
>Your Address
>Anywhere, USA"
>
You're a sly one, Kris. I'm gonna try it, but I don't think I'm going to use
the word "friend". I really didn't know her well, and I don't want to get
asked who I am. In the circles these people travel in all the "friends" tend
to be pretty well known to each other. When I read the guest book at the web
site I recognized most of the names even though these people weren't friends of
mine.
I think I might try something like "I attended school with Michele and want you
to know how sorry I am..." How does that sound? It's the truth, anyway, and
if they want to know who I am I'll just tell 'em. She won't remember me,
anyway, and then I won't look like I was trying to pass myself off as a
"friend" when I wasn't. Since they don't know me now, they also won't know
that I'm being rather "fakey" when I sign with words like "Yours in
Christ"...lol.
Whaddya think?
Kris Baker
>
> Whaddya think?
Sounds good to me.
YIC
Kris
Jaforslev
>to know how sorry I am to hear of this. I want to pray,
>but I want to include the victim. Can you tell me who
>to pray for?
Change it to victim's family. Devout Christians don't pray for people who are
dead.
Julie
IBegg2Differ
>are
>dead.
>Julie
Oh, yeah, good point. I'd actually thought about that earlier and then forgot.
I do need to word it that way. Thanks.
fyd
Office of the Clerk of the Court where the case was adjudicated
( from bottom of this page)-
http://www.adc.state.az.us/cgi-bin/IDetail.cgi/O129374030608
http://www.superiorcourt.maricopa.gov/docket/criminal/caseInfo.asp?caseNumbe
r=CR2001-012103
case number CR2001-012103 location- downtown
IB if I'm reading this right the "downtown" court in ? Phoenix-
Central Court Building (CCB)
201 W. Jefferson
Phoenix, AZ. 85003-2243
Court Administration: (602) 506-3204
Civil Court Administration: (602) 506-1497
Family Court Administration: (602) 506-1561 Old Courthouse (OCH)
125 W. Washington
Phoenix, AZ. 85003-2243
Probate/Mental Health Administration:
(602) 506-3668
West Court Building (WCB)
111 W. Jefferson
Phoenix, AZ. 85003-2243
(602) 506-3204 East Court Building (ECB)
101 W. Jefferson
Phoenix, AZ. 85003-2243
Criminal Administration: (602) 506-8575
http://www.superiorcourt.maricopa.gov/contactUs/index.asp
a call to the clerk of courts may get you the "inmate offenses" info you
seek
just a thought
mike
FeAudrey
says...
>
>
>I may try to get a little time away during business hours and go on down to
>the courthouse myself.
Try the library, too. They may have periodicals access that would have
accounts of the case.
My library (Chicago) has not only actual paper periodicals, but also access to
on-line archives and databases (even accessible via the Internet, although you
need a currentl CPL library card to use them).
The Phoenix library seems to have this, too (again, card-holders only):
http://www.phoenixpubliclibrary.org/web/databasesframe.html
Or you can "Ask a Librarian":
http://www.phoenixpubliclibrary.org/web/contactusframe.html
(no legal questions, they say, but that usually means legal advice, not
information about an actual event)
--
Visit my Iron Age Pages for technical and fun stuff (holiday specials, too)!
http://pages.prodigy.net/feaudrey
Kris Baker
"Jaforslev" <jafo...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20030613175034...@mb-m25.aol.com...
Hmmm.....we always did, at Church. I guess that's the
cut-off line between "Christian" and "Devout"?
Kris
Maybe I was just Vout
Jaforslev
>> pray for people who are dead.
>> Julie
>
>Hmmm.....we always did, at Church. I guess that's the
>cut-off line between "Christian" and "Devout"?
>
>Kris
Are you a Catholic? I was raised in the Catholic church and was told they pray
for the dead so that they can be released from purgatory and go to heaven.
When I became a Bible believing Christian I realized that there is no
purgatory, and if you've gone to hell, that's where you're staying. Judging
from this family's website, I would say they would agree with my statement.
Julie
Colt
I think it's the cut-off between "Christian" and "fundamentalist."
Patty
> WARNING: This is gonna be long (LOL).
>
> This case is something I'm just curious about the details of and I can find
> *none* of them anywhere. It's making me crazy, probably just because I can't
> find anything...lol. Anyway, if anyone here is really good at researching this
> stuff, I'm trying to find the details of the crime and the name of the victim.
>
> Here's how I got interested: I got a phone call the other night from a friend
> asking me if I could verify a rumour she'd heard. The story was that a girl
> (woman now of course) that we both went to high school with had murdered her
> husband. Supposedly she convinced everyone at the time that it was an accident
> and got away with it, but she confessed over ten years later and is now in
> prison. I was *very* curious, as anyone who'd known this girl would have been.
> She was *perfect* in high school, and I mean that. Beautiful, good student,
> good family, very wealthy, and friendly to boot. Sheesh.
>
> I hunted around online and verified that the rumour was true. What I *can't*
> find, however, are any details of the crime. I can't even find out the name of
> the victim (sure would like to know if he was someone from our school as well).
> I am soooo curious, and any help would be very much appreciated.
>
> Here's what I *do* know:
>
> * This woman's name was Michele Lynne Ritzenthaler in high school and is now
> Michele Lynne Millikan.
>
> * The murder would have taken place in Arizona (most likely Scottsdale or
> Phoenix) some time between 1985 and 1991.
>
> * Michele was having an affair at the time of the murder.
>
> * She remarried at some point after the murder to a man named Nate Millikan,
> who is *not* the man she was having an affair with. She is still married to
> Nate.
>
> * Michele was heavily involved with an organization called Victorious
> Christian Living (VCL) throughout the 1990's in Phoenix, and may have met her
> current husband through VCL.
>
> * Michele confessed to the murder, first to friends and family and then to the
> authorities, sometime in 2001.
>
> * In August of 2001 Michele was indicted for first degree murder, but
> negotiated a plea bargain in 2002, reducing the charge to second degree murder,
> for which she was sentenced to 18 years.
>
> * Michele went to prison in June of 2002 (Perryville Prison in Arizona).
>
> * Info on Michele (spelled "Michelle" with two L's) on the Arizona Department
> of Corrections web site lists one of her aliases as "Michelle Helton", so her
> first husband's name may have been Helton.
>
> * People named Donna Helton and Steve Helton testified at Michele's sentencing
> hearing, furthering my suspicion that the victim's name may have been Helton.
>
> * In 1990, Donna Helton petitioned the court in Arizona (probate court) to
> become the legal guardian of a minor named Christa Potts. I don't know if this
> is related to the case or not, but the timing would be right if this were a
> child of Michele's deceased husband, although this is the only reference to the
> name "Potts" that I have seen.
>
> * I can find no record in the Social Security Death Index of a male named
> Helton who died in Arizona within the right time frame to match this case.
>
> * I can find no cemetery record for a male named Helton in Arizona with the
> right time frame, either.
>
> And that's where I am. I can't find anything else. I'd really, really, like
> to know who the victim was and how he was killed. Anyone here have a little
> too much time on their hands and an inclination to do a little research?
Looking to see if she had owned any property under Michele Helton, I
checked the Maricopa County Recorder's office and found she had with
husband Stuart Helton.
http://makeashorterlink.com/?A27A43CE4
Patty
Patty
Patty
Died of a gunshot wound to the head.
Linda Griffith
> Change it to victim's family. Devout Christians don't pray for people who
are
> dead.
> Julie
>
Oh, yes, some do. Catholics pray for the dead, and we're devout Christians.
Linda
Linda Griffith
> Are you a Catholic? I was raised in the Catholic church and was told they
pray
> for the dead so that they can be released from purgatory and go to heaven.
> When I became a Bible believing Christian I realized that there is no
> purgatory, and if you've gone to hell, that's where you're staying.
Judging
> from this family's website, I would say they would agree with my
statement.
> Julie
They might. But doesn't the Bible say, "Nothing imperfect shall enter the
gates of Heaven"? I hope you'll pray for me, because I'm imperfect. Not
good enough for Heaven, not bad enough for Hell (I hope). The last I heard,
Christ was the only perfect One.
Why are y'all getting into a religious discussion? I feel certain it'll
probably go along just fine, until somebody goes against the majority
opinion. (Probably me)
Doesn't matter; I just hopped in because I saw the word "Catholic". "I was
raised in the Catholic Church and was told *they* pray"????
If you're *really* raised in the Church, it's "we pray...". Just like, "I
was raised in the Baptist Church and we were taught...."
Linda
Chocolic
"Patty" <eartha...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:f0e77308.03061...@posting.google.com...
Hey Patty, I knew you'd freeking come thru with something. You are damned
good at this. Police Depts could use you. I've put in hours searching.
How the h--- do you do it?
Chocolic
Chocolic
> Then looking up Sturat Helton, found a death certificate and other
things.
>
> http://makeashorterlink.com/?D18A61CE4
I see that the informant for the death cert was Michele's father. And the
death cert said it was a self-inflicted gunshot wound, 5/25/1993 at 4:04
a.m. but the doctor said it was at 10:40 p.m. (he must have lived for a
bit?) and that there was an autopsy and that it was referred to the
medical examiner. This gets curiouser and curiouser. I wonder why
Stuart's family weren't the informants. Odd, very odd. I wanna know more,
IBegg. I wish there were more to read on her life and who/what/why sort of
stuff.
Chocolic
Jaforslev
>gates of Heaven"? I hope you'll pray for me, because I'm imperfect. Not
>good enough for Heaven, not bad enough for Hell (I hope). The last I heard,
>Christ was the only perfect One.
*******"There is therefore, now no condemnation for those who are in Christ
Jesus." I am imperfect, but the blood of Jesus has washed away my sins.
>Doesn't matter; I just hopped in because I saw the word "Catholic". "I was
>raised in the Catholic Church and was told *they* pray"????
>
>If you're *really* raised in the Church, it's "we pray...". Just like, "I
>was raised in the Baptist Church and we were taught...."
>
>
>Linda
********I said "they" because I am no longer a Catholic. I WAS raised in the
Catholic church--baptized, first communion, first holy confession,
confirmation--attended Catholic school for 9 years.
Julie
Kris Baker
OK, Patty -- you just made the rest of us look like
pikers. I did check for this, but through a
different site :(
Oddly, there's nothing on the 'net about this
guy.
Kris
Dana
IBegg2Differ
>
>http://makeashorterlink.com/?D18A61CE4
Damn, Patty, you're good. I don't know why none of the rest of us found that.
So she *shot* him! In the head...and still managed to convince everyone it was
an accident! My my my...if only Scott Peterson had her charm and apparent
skills in deception maybe he'd be golfing today. Wow.
IBegg2Differ
What does that (informant) mean?
>And the
>death cert said it was a self-inflicted gunshot wound, 5/25/1993 at 4:04
>a.m. but the doctor said it was at 10:40 p.m. (he must have lived for a
>bit?) and that there was an autopsy and that it was referred to the
>medical examiner.
How can you read all that? I can only read certain parts of the certificate;
the rest is too small or to blurred together with that Arizona-shaped overlay
thing.
>This gets curiouser and curiouser. I wonder why
>Stuart's family weren't the informants.
Maybe he didn't have any family? I don't know. I don't know what the
informant is, anyway; can someone fill me in?
>Odd, very odd. I wanna know more,
>IBegg.
Me, too. This is a lot more than I knew yesterday at least, though.
>I wish there were more to read on her life and who/what/why sort of
>stuff.
>
I have a feeling that's going to be real hard to find. Damn.
IBegg2Differ
>
No, it's just a Protestant/Catholic thing. Catholics believe in Purgatory and
Protestants don't, and unless you believe in Purgatory there's not a whole lot
of point in praying for dead people. It's got nothing to do with being devout
or not.
IBegg2Differ
>purgatory, and if you've gone to hell, that's where you're staying. Judging
>from this family's website, I would say they would agree with my statement.
>Julie
Yes, the Ritzenthalers are Protestant, not Catholic.
IBegg2Differ
Index. I was looking for a Helton whose last residence was Arizona; the SSDI
lists his last residence as "(PE)". Does anyone know what that means?
Chocolic
I believe the informant would be the person giving the info to the
registrar or coroner for the death cert, such as his parents name, date of
birth, where born, etc.
I just thought it odd that her father was the one giving the info. I
emailed you a copy of the cert. Maybe you can read what is on it better,
hope you don't mind. :)
Chocolic
Chocolic
His death cert says he was born in Idaho. Could it show up there? I don't
know what PE is, where did you see that?
Chocolic
IBegg2Differ
>know what PE is, where did you see that?
>
>Chocolic
Social Security Death Index. You can search it at Rootsweb.com. I didn't find
anything initially, but now that I have the SS# off of the death certificate I
was able to find it with that. For last residence it usually has the
two-letter abbreviation for the state, but his says "PE" in parentheses. ???
IBegg2Differ
>registrar or coroner for the death cert, such as his parents name, date of
>birth, where born, etc.
Oh, okay that makes sense.
>I just thought it odd that her father was the one giving the info.
Maybe just because Stuart Helton's family was in Idaho? I dunno, though, you'd
think they could do it by phone. Maybe he just didn't have any living
relatives?
> I
>emailed you a copy of the cert. Maybe you can read what is on it better,
>hope you don't mind. :)
Of course I don't mind, but I haven't received the e-mail. Looks like you and
I are both up late tonight; did you just send it right before or after you made
this post?
Alan Hope
It's also a matter of intercession with God. The Protestant believes,
on the whole, in the personal relationship between God and man. The
Catholic believes there's the possibility of others -- whether they be
supernatural like saints and the Virgin, or human like priests and
other Catholics -- intervening and furthering the soul's interests. If
you recall, one of Martin Luther's original beefs with the Church
concerned the selling of indulgences, which permitted the purchaser to
write off certain sins. Similarly, William Tyndale was burned at the
stake for producing a vernacular Bible, which removed the need for the
intercession of clergy. The Catholic sacrament of confession is the
ultimate expression of human intercession: the priest offers
absolution which a Protestant believes in in the gift of God alone.
Protestants also refuse to accept belief in beatification or
canonisation, which require evidence of the candidate's successful
intercession.
Purgatory, you might say, is a result of this doctrine, for its
existence as a halfway-house for souls only makes sense if there is
some activity on this corporeal plane which will enable a soul to
leave. If no intercession between a man and God is possible, then
Purgatory has no sense. In that respect, it's not so much the belief
in Purgatory that separates Protestant and Catholic, but the
underlying belief in intercession which Purgatory demonstrates, and on
which its existence depends.
--
AH
No1sBish
ibegg2...@aol.com (IBegg2Differ) wrote:
> Social Security Death Index. You can search it at Rootsweb.com. I didn't
> find
> anything initially, but now that I have the SS# off of the death certificate
> I
> was able to find it with that. For last residence it usually has the
> two-letter abbreviation for the state, but his says "PE" in parentheses. ???
From: http://www.rootsweb.com/~rwguide/lesson10.htm
Abbreviations. The following abbreviations or codes, which appear in
some records in the "Last Residence" box, usually in parentheses, are
internal codes used by SSA and do not mean anything to researchers.
Ignore them. (72) - (PE) - (FO) - (HC) - (VA)
[(VA) does not stand for Virginia or Veterans' Administration]
Patty
Can't you go to the library and look up old articles on The Republic,
since they aren't archiving online at the moment. I think you've got
everyone hooked on this mystery. Sure seems odd that none of your
local television stations picked up the story, or that it didn't go
national. How many times do people later admit to a murder? I can
think of twice in the Bay Area, and neither are as interesting as this
one. One was in the Tayna? case where she was abducted off Highway 17
around 1983, and the guy, who turned out to have mental problems,
admitted to his brother sometime in the early 1990s. And the other
case I don't remember much about, but a Berkeley coed was killed in
the early-mid 1960s, and about 20 years later her killer came forward.
I noticed it was a grand jury case. Also I found no property records
for her present husband and she kept her house as separate property.
Patty
fyd
IBegg2Differ, man you are a wise one, don't leave us hanging here,
I know, she is the one who is writing to Scott Peterson right.
anybody want to look for my car keys, oh heck I don't drive
PS enjoyed the challenge :)
mike
IBegg2Differ
I put "info" in quotes because what I got today is utterly undocumented,
unconfirmed second-hand info and that should be said up-front here, but it *is*
from a pretty good source. First of all, if my source is correct (and I'm
pretty sure she is), then there are a couple of things I'd been told in the
past that are incorrect:
First, Nate Millikan (Michele's current husband) *is*, in fact, the man she had
the affair with when her first husband was murdered.
Second, Michele has no children. Apparently, all of the children seen in
photographs with her are the children of her sister, Tammy, who has like a
whole boatload of rugrats.
Okay, those are the "corrections"; here's the story, including new info, as I
have been told today:
This whole drama revolves around an organization called Victorious Christian
Living International (www.vcli.org) where Rich Ritzenthaler is a big cahuna.
As is well known here by now, the Ritzenthaler family is a "who's who" of the
Christian community in the Phoenix/Scottsdale area.
From what I am now told, Michele Ritzenthaler (Rich's daughter) married a man
named Stuart Helton, who worked for VCLI as a family counselor, in the late
80's. Apparently, Stuart was a control freak, as is not terribly uncommon in
the very devout fundamentalist Christian community. Michele was unhappy with
him and the control he asserted over her, but her father thought Stuart was
just the greatest thing since sliced bread. Rich and Stuart were very close,
as they were in-laws as well as working together at VCLI.
At some point, Michele and Stuart "took into their home" a man named Nathan
Millikan who was training under Stuart at VCLI to become a counselor. It isn't
clear why Nate needed to live with them, but nonetheless, there he ended up.
While Nate was living with Stuart and Michele, as everyone here can probably
see coming, Nate and Michele began an affair.
Michele, the rumor mill says, felt alone in her dilemma, as the only counseling
available to her (without ruffling any family feathers, that is) would have
been at VCLI. In her family and amongst her circle of friends and associates,
divorce was *not* an option, but Michele was quickly running out of *other*
options. Until she landed on one that apparently looked good to her at the
time, anyway. She and Nate *together* conspired to kill Stuart.
On May 25, 1993, Stuart Helton "shot himself in the head" according to the
*official* findings at the time. The story Michele told, as *I* am told, was
that Stuart reached up on a high shelf for something, but his hand came across
the loaded gun. As he pulled it down off the shelf, the gun discharged,
shooting Stuart in the head. Michele said she saw the whole thing from another
room. The police apparently believed Michele so *completely* that they didn't
even do much of an investigation, not even testing Michele's hands for gunshot
residue.
Everyone in Michele's world rallied around her *except* her father, Rich
Ritzenthaler. Rich wasn't buying the story and felt as though Michele wasn't
being completely honest. At some point, the timing of which is unclear, Rich
hired his own private investigator to dig for answers. While it isn't known
(at this point, anyway) when the PI was hired, it appears that he did come up
with answers, but they came after Michele and Nate had married and Nate was
working for VCLI as a counselor.
It seems that once the "answers" were found by the PI, Nate was fired from VCLI
and Michele was confronted by family members. As much as Michele and her
sister (who runs her web site) like to portray Michele as having willingly come
forward with her confession, that version seems suspect. It is more likely, in
the eyes of those who were "around" as the events unfolded, that Michele had no
choice.
Michele was indicted for first degree murder but the authorities were willing
to bargain, mostly because their initial investigation had been so inept that
it might have been a hard case to try. She plead guilty, instead, to second
degree murder and was sentenced to 18 years. Fortunately for Nate, the staute
of limitations had run out for the charges that would have been filed against
him as a co-conspirator, so he avoided prison.
Rumor has it that there is good reason for the "Nate's Notes" page at
www.nateandmichele.com being "under construction"; Nate's support of his
now-imprisoned wife seems to be wavering as his life falls apart around him.
He cannot get work in his field of "expertise", as no one really wants a family
counselor who conspired to murder his married girlfriend's husband, and he is
left to wait 18 years for Michele. Those "in the know" say that ain't gonna
happen.
So, there we are. I'm still asking around, but this is what I have
"discovered" to date. Sounds to me like a Lifetime Network Movie of the Week!
javaluuver
> Okay, I got some more "info" today and this just gets better 'n' better,
folks.
> I put "info" in quotes because what I got today is utterly undocumented,
> unconfirmed second-hand info and that should be said up-front here, but it
*is*
> from a pretty good source. First of all, if my source is correct (and I'm
> pretty sure she is), then there are a couple of things I'd been told in
the
> past that are incorrect:
>
well now THAT post certainly went well with my nitely cup of java ....thanks
for the 'update' .... i lived in AZ during the late 80's to mid 90's ...
never heard of the VCLI ... but then again, I was in the east valley, and no
where nears the Scottsdale area .... we were just lowly mid-income folks lol
.... oh wait...we still are! bahaha ...
thanks ibegg .... i wonder why there was no info about this online tho ....
java
MyOwnPlanet
This has been the most interesting thread yet on this board. What a bizarre case!!!
Alan Hope
>Sounds to me like a Lifetime Network Movie of the Week!
The only problem with that is that the murder sounds like something
out of The Postman Always Rings Twice. Does Michele look like Jessica
Lange, by any chance?
--
AH
Patty
It seems like the police did some sort of investigation because the
death certificate wasn't issued for a year. It may not have been
thorough, though, if Michele wasn't even tested for gun residue. Now
that does seeem strange.
How involved in this VCLI was the family when you were in high school?
I also noticed on the death certificate that her first husband only
had two years of college, was that some sort of Christian college.
Thanks for filling us in. Keep us informed of any updates.
Patty
IBegg2Differ
>for the 'update' .... i lived in AZ during the late 80's to mid 90's ...
>never heard of the VCLI ... but then again, I was in the east valley, and no
>where nears the Scottsdale area .... we were just lowly mid-income folks lol
>.... oh wait...we still are! bahaha ...
>
>thanks ibegg .... i wonder why there was no info about this online tho ....
>
>java
>
Actually, java, if you were active in any kind of a non-denominational church
in the valley at all I would have thought you'd have heard of VCLI. I remember
as a kid that my mother came home from church with all kinds of stuff that said
"VCL" on it (Bible study guides, reading material, etc.). Even when I was an
adult going to a different church I saw lots of "VCL" stuff all around, and
when I separated from my husband years ago I was referred to VCL for counseling
(although I never went there). They have offices (or "branches" or whatever)
in several states and different countries.
As far as why there's no info online or why this thing didn't make the papers,
I spoke to a friend of mine last night who knows a lot about the "Scottsdale
lifestyle" and she had a little insight into that. She said to me, "Oh, don't
you know? There *are* no "murders" in Scottsdale; not if they can "help" it.
It's bad for PR." I thanked her for the information and told her that if I ever
decided to murder someone, I was going to drag them over to Scottsdale first.
;)
IBegg2Differ
Y'know, I have always wanted to see that movie, but I've never gotten around to
it. I don't like either Jack Nicholson or Jessica Lange all that much, so
that's probably why I have passed it by a couple of times, but I've heard it's
really good and I've felt like I *should* see it. Is the plot something like
this story?
And yes, actually, I guess Michele does look a little bit similar to a younger
Jessica Lange. Not too much, but if you were to scrunch your eyes up just
right, I suppose. ;)
Sunny
wrote:
>Y'know, I have always wanted to see that movie [The Postman Always Rings Twice],
>but I've never gotten around toit. I don't like either Jack Nicholson or Jessica Lange
>all that much, so that's probably why I have passed it by a couple of times, but I've
>heard it's really good and I've felt like I *should* see it. Is the plot something like
>this story?
Rent the original 1946 Lana Turner / John Garfield version, if it's
available.
javaluuver
Well i was quite a bit younger and not quite as aware of things, but we were
involved in a small non-denom church in the east valley. I wonder if my
husband remembers anything about it.... i'll have to ask. it was during my
early years as a Christian, so I still getting familar with things lol ....
then we left AZ in 95 ...
I do remember a few murders that happened in Scottsdale - of course i can't
remember details off hand, but I remember the reaction overall being "in
Scottsdale????" .... like it was some saintly community lol ....
java
IBegg2Differ
>available.
I'll try and find that. Thanks.
FeAudrey
says...
>
>
(snip of very entertaining account of life among some Commandment-challenged
Arizonans)
> .... (Nate) cannot get work in his field of "expertise", as no one really
wants a family
>counselor who conspired to murder his married girlfriend's husband ..
You sure about that? Maybe there are more Micheles out there, needing his
assistance ...
--
Visit my Iron Age Pages for technical and fun stuff (holiday specials, too)!
http://pages.prodigy.net/feaudrey
IBegg2Differ
>
> Arizonans)
"Commandment-challenged". ROTFLOL!
>> .... (Nate) cannot get work in his field of "expertise", as no one really
>wants a family
>>counselor who conspired to murder his married girlfriend's husband ..
>
>
>You sure about that? Maybe there are more Micheles out there, needing his
>assistance ...
Well, his assistance didn't get Michele very far, as she's now serving 18 years
while he's out free. Maybe his "advice" would be more marketable to the men
out there having affairs with married women. "If You Can't Do the Time, Have
*HER* Do the Crime" by Nate Millikan. Keep your eyes open for it on Amazon
soon. ;)
Kris Baker
Thank you, thank you!
I'm completely serious about this: you should write a book
about it.
After reading the story of what happened, I'm convinced that
the "so Christian they make you puke" webpage is more
concerned with preserving the family image AND that
(obviously) big money-making VCLI company, than Michele's.
Kris
IBegg2Differ
Well, I'm not done with this yet. ;)
One more thing I found out: While Nate was still living in the house, Stuart
found out about the affair. Stuart kicked Nate out of the house. One thing I
am particularly interested in finding out is how much time passed between
*that* event and Stuart's death. From what I understand at this point,
although I'm still trying to get confirmation on this, Nate continued to work
as a counselor at VCLI after Stuart's death. I also *believe* I heard that
Rich Ritzenthaler only learned of the affair much later on after he hired his
private investigator. These facts lead me to believe that Stuart had not said
a word to anyone at VCLI about his wife's affair with Nate. Since Stuart and
Rich were so close, I have to wonder *why* Stuart didn't say anything. I can
only reach one conclusion: he didn't have time. My *guess* (and that's all it
is at this point) is that Stuart kicked Nate out of the house, Nate and Michele
realized that Stuart was in a position to ruin both Michele's standing in her
family and her reputation in the community as well as destroy Nate's career,
and they formulated a plan very quickly to "take him out" before he could do
any of that.
I plan to go down to the court house next week (I just don't have the time this
week) and see what I can dig up.
>I'm completely serious about this: you should write a book
>about it.
Well, I'm not a writer, but I agree that *someone* should write a book about
this case. Anne Rule? It seems to have so many of the elements she finds
attractive: interesting characters, a complex chain of very unusual events, and
a case that hasn't had a lot of media attention.
>After reading the story of what happened, I'm convinced that
>the "so Christian they make you puke" webpage is more
>concerned with preserving the family image AND that
>(obviously) big money-making VCLI company, than Michele's.
>
>Kris
>
I know what you mean, but honestly I just don't know what to make of the web
site. I really don't. On one hand, it appears exactly as you perceive it. On
the other hand, this has been kept so "quiet" that PR wasn't really necessary.
Furthermore, it's run by her sister whom I have a lot of sypmathy for; this
must have all been very shocking for her. It's easy for me to imagine that she
just cannot let go of the angelic image she had of Michele.
I dunno. :(
Linda Griffith
always wanted to see that movie, but I've never gotten around to
> it. I don't like either Jack Nicholson or Jessica Lange all that much, so
> that's probably why I have passed it by a couple of times, but I've heard
it's
> really good and I've felt like I *should* see it. Is the plot something
like
> this story?
I guess Jessica Lange did a good job of portraying her character in that
movie. I saw it, and I've never had any use for Jessica Lange since! Not
wild about Jack Nicholson, either; but that's because he's touted as "really
hot!" and I think he's ugly. (Probably because of his character in "The
Shining".) I really don't think he's cute or sexy, regardless of the
movies he's been in.
Linda
Alan Hope
>>IBegg2Differ goes:
>>>Sounds to me like a Lifetime Network Movie of the Week!
>>The only problem with that is that the murder sounds like something
>>out of The Postman Always Rings Twice. Does Michele look like Jessica
>>Lange, by any chance?
>>--
>>AH
>Y'know, I have always wanted to see that movie, but I've never gotten around to
>it. I don't like either Jack Nicholson or Jessica Lange all that much, so
>that's probably why I have passed it by a couple of times, but I've heard it's
>really good and I've felt like I *should* see it. Is the plot something like
>this story?
The first part is. Drifter Frank comes to work as short-order cook at
a roadside diner, falls for slutty wife Cora, the two do the bisness.
Then they decide to off the husband Nick, making it look like an
accident. The story is less to do with the murder, though, than with
the idea that you can't trust an accomplice. They're both hung,
ultimately, because the cops are able to sow the seeds of mistrust
which must, if you think about it, be present in any cheating
relationship. What I mean is, if Man 2 knows you whacked Man 1 to be
with him, how can he ever really trust you? How does he know he didn't
just move up a slot to become Man 1 himself?
If you're not happy with Nicholson/Lange, try the earlier (less
steamy) version of the same story with John Garfield and Lana Turner,
made in 1946. Or read James M. Cain's novel. Can, incidentally, used
almost the same murder story (but with insurance added as motive) in
Double Indemnity, filmed in 1944 with Barbara Stanwyck, Fred McMurray
and Edward G. Robinson, with a screenplay by none other than Raymond
Chandler.
>And yes, actually, I guess Michele does look a little bit similar to a younger
>Jessica Lange. Not too much, but if you were to scrunch your eyes up just
>right, I suppose. ;)
That's almost too spooky to contemplate.
--
AH
IBegg2Differ
>wild about Jack Nicholson, either; but that's because he's touted as "really
>hot!" and I think he's ugly. (Probably because of his character in "The
>Shining".) I really don't think he's cute or sexy, regardless of the
>movies he's been in.
>
>Linda
Me neither. Ick. I think he is butt-ugly and always has been, even before The
Shining. I don't think he's any great actor, either; if he was, I could
overlook his butt-ugliness. On top of all that he's conceited as all hell,
apparently stuck up about some imaginary qualities he thinks he has. The
overall package makes him hard for me to even look at. Blech.
IBegg2Differ
>a roadside diner, falls for slutty wife Cora, the two do the bisness.
>Then they decide to off the husband Nick, making it look like an
>accident. The story is less to do with the murder, though, than with
>the idea that you can't trust an accomplice. They're both hung,
>ultimately, because the cops are able to sow the seeds of mistrust
>which must, if you think about it, be present in any cheating
>relationship. What I mean is, if Man 2 knows you whacked Man 1 to be
>with him, how can he ever really trust you? How does he know he didn't
>just move up a slot to become Man 1 himself?
>
Well, hot damn, Alan...you just really made me want to see this movie. It
sounds better than I'd thought. I was always under the (apparently wrong)
impression that it was a hot & heavy sex-on-the-kitchen-table type of movie,
but basically a "chick flick". Looks like I've really missed out.
>If you're not happy with Nicholson/Lange, try the earlier (less
>steamy) version of the same story with John Garfield and Lana Turner,
>made in 1946.
Maybe I'll watch both.
>Or read James M. Cain's novel. Can, incidentally, used
>almost the same murder story (but with insurance added as motive) in
>Double Indemnity, filmed in 1944 with Barbara Stanwyck, Fred McMurray
>and Edward G. Robinson, with a screenplay by none other than Raymond Chandler.
Did you read the book? Is it better than the movie(s), as books usually are?
>>And yes, actually, I guess Michele does look a little bit similar to a
>younger
>>Jessica Lange. Not too much, but if you were to scrunch your eyes up just
>>right, I suppose. ;)
>
>That's almost too spooky to contemplate.
Well, she doesn't *really* look like her. Like I said, it would be a stretch.
These are not very good pictures, but you could take a gander at her here:
http://www.nucellformulas.com/gamfamily/Friends%20M-N-O.htm
formica63
Linda Griffith <grif...@charter.net> wrote in message
news:vevvrqf...@corp.supernews.com...
> "IBegg2Differ" <ibegg2...@aol.com> wrote in message > Y'know, I have
> always wanted to see that movie, but I've never gotten around to
> > it. I don't like either Jack Nicholson or Jessica Lange all that much,
so
> > that's probably why I have passed it by a couple of times, but I've
heard
> it's
> > really good and I've felt like I *should* see it. Is the plot something
> like
> > this story?
Well, it was Lana Turner and John Garfield in the original, and it's
*great*.
Form.
Hownow
<pit...@patter.coma> wrote:
Saw the Nicholson/Lange version on TV the other night and it's
certainly better viewing today when the mind is uncluttered by the sex
hype surrounding its original screening in 1981.
And John Colicos's energetic portrayal of cuckolded Nick Papadakis is
far more credible than Cecil Kellaway's doddering Nick Smith in the '46
film noir.
- hm
Hownow
<pit...@patter.coma> wrote:
> Howard:
> > Saw the Nicholson/Lange version on TV the other night and it's
> > certainly better viewing today when the mind is uncluttered by the sex
> > hype surrounding its original screening in 1981.
> > And John Colicos's energetic portrayal of cuckolded Nick Papadakis is
> > far more credible than Cecil Kellaway's doddering Nick Smith in the '46
> > film noir.
>
> Agree with you there, Howard, but I do like the earlier film better. Much
> better, actually.
>
> Form.
>
Yes. I have a reference to it in my tabloid newspaper/old movies spoof.
- hm
MyOwnPlanet
affair much later on after he hired his private investigator. >
***I think that is one of the fascinating aspects of your story, that
her own dad wasn't buying it ~ it sounds like justice would not have
been served without his persistance. I think it took some grit ~
afterall, Michele IS his daughter. The part that the "Church" took in
this is rather bizarre. Don't they ex-communicate anyone???
> Well, I'm not a writer, but I agree that *someone* should write a book about
> this case. Anne Rule? It seems to have so many of the elements she finds
> attractive: interesting characters, a complex chain of very unusual events,
***I can see her being interested in this. ann...@annrules.com
Jaforslev
>this is rather bizarre. Don't they ex-communicate anyone???
Most Christian churches won't ex-communicate someone if they have repented of
their sin. If someone who is a member of a Christian church is confronted with
a specific sin (usually by the elders or leaders), and they show no signs of
remorse, repentance, or a clear desire to stop struggling with the sin, then
they may be "disfellowshipped" from the congregation, meaning that although the
members would continue to be cordial to that person, they would not pursue a
close friendship with them, until they have repented.
Julie
FeAudrey
>>wants a family
>>>counselor who conspired to murder his married girlfriend's husband ..
>>
>>
>>You sure about that? Maybe there are more Micheles out there, needing his
>>assistance ...
>
>Well, his assistance didn't get Michele very far, as she's now serving 18
years
>while he's out free. Maybe his "advice" would be more marketable to the men
>out there having affairs with married women. "If You Can't Do the Time, Have
>*HER* Do the Crime" by Nate Millikan. Keep your eyes open for it on Amazon
>soon. ;)
Your suggestion is much better than mine!
My2Cents
THE PHOENIX GAZETTE Copyright (c) 1993, Phoenix Newspapers Inc.
DATE: Wednesday, May 26, 1993
PAGE: A12
MAN ACCIDENTALLY SHOOTS HIMSELF
A man who thought his home was being burglarized accidentally shot
himself in the head.
Stuart Helton, 30, was in critical condition at John C. Lincoln
Hospital and Health Center.
Police said Helton apparently shot himself with a .380-caliber
semiautomatic handgun about 4 a.m. at his residence in the 4000 block of
East Winchcomb Drive.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
THE ARIZONA REPUBLIC Copyright (c) 2001, The Arizona Republic
DATE: Friday, August 10, 2001
By Christina Leonard, The Arizona Republic
WIFE CONFESSES AFTER 8 YEARS, IS ARRESTED IN SLAYING
Michele Millikan told a friend that she'd rather be in prison than live
freely with the sin of killing her husband, police said.
The 34-year-old Phoenix homemaker confessed to police in late July that
she had shot her husband, Stuart Helton, while he slept in their bed eight
years ago. Her confession may have come because her current husband told a
counselor about the shooting.
Millikan was jailed on suspicion of first-degree murder and released on
$100,000 bond Wednesday.
"I know it was very difficult for her to walk in and do what she did,"
homicide Detective Bob Brunansky said. "But that's a lot of time to hold
something in."
The couple had worked together at a Christian counseling organization
that Millikan's father had founded. But their relationship grew rocky,
police said, and Millikan began having an affair with a 19-year-old
counseling student.
She shot her husband a few months later, police said, but Helton's death
was ruled a suicide. Millikan continued on with her own life: buying a new
car, moving into a new house and eventually marrying the student, Nathan
Millikan.
When Michele Millikan was asked why she had waited so long to come
forward, she simply stated, "I don't know," according to a police report.
Michele and Nathan did not return phone calls Thursday. However,
attorney William Foreman provided a statement on her behalf: " Michele made
the decision to come forward because of her courage and sincere religious
beliefs. She's getting legal advice to make sure she is treated fairly by
the (Maricopa) County Attorney's Office and the courts, so it would be
inappropriate for her to speak publicly about this matter at this time."
Helton and Millikan had met at Scottsdale Bible Church in 1987 and
married three years later.
"Michele said she felt a lot of emotional abuse, and felt unworthy as
she could not do anything right in Stuart's eyes," according to a police
report.
She told police she never sought help for her own marital problems,
Brunansky said.
Nathan Millikan moved in with the couple while attending their
counseling school, and Nathan and Michele became "emotionally bonded with
each other," the report said.
"Michele said she and Nathan both knew what they were doing was wrong as
far as having an affair, but they did not know how to cut it off," the
report added. "Michele said she thought of divorce, but due to her
Christian upbringing it wasn't really an option."
Helton, a 30-year-old pastor at a church and vice president of
development at the counseling organization, discovered the relationship
after seeing Michele kiss Nathan on the cheek one night, police said.
Helton ordered Nathan to move out.
Michele told police that she didn't remember much about the night of May
25, 1993, but did say she quarreled with Helton, attended a church softball
game, then returned to the couple's home near 45th Street and Thunderbird
Road.
She said that at about 4 a.m. she pointed a pistol at Helton from a few
feet away and pulled the trigger, the report said.
But she told police a different story at the time, claiming that her
husband shot himself.
The Maricopa County medical examiner had ruled the shooting a suicide,
Brunansky said. But Michele's father, David Ritzenthaler, hired a forensics
expert because "suicide was not one of the characteristics Stuart would
even contemplate," Brunansky said.
Ritzenthaler had worked with Helton at Victorious Christian Living
International and the two had become close, Brunansky said.
The forensics expert told authorities that he did not believe the death
was a suicide and that the medical examiner changed the classification to
"undetermined."
Brunansky said he believes that at the time, detectives did not continue
the investigation. The evidence impounded by police has been destroyed
because it was not part of a murder investigation, he added.
Four years after Helton's death, Michele married Nathan.
Once they began having marital problems, Nathan entered counseling. It
was there that he revealed the homicide to a counselor, who asked church
leaders for help.
Brunansky began getting tips from church members, and Michele confessed
to police on July 24. She appeared honest and remorseful, Brunansky said.
fyd
mike
"My2Cents" <dan...@mail.com> wrote in message
news:75a2e6cd.03070...@posting.google.com...
Kris Baker
>
> THE PHOENIX GAZETTE Copyright (c) 1993, Phoenix Newspapers Inc.
>
> DATE: Wednesday, May 26, 1993
> PAGE: A12
Thank you!
Kris
My2Cents
upbringing it wasn't really an option."
Divorce wasn't an option but MURDER was?!!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"She said that at about 4 a.m. she pointed a pistol at Helton from a
few feet away and pulled the trigger, the report said. But she told
police a different story at the time, claiming that her husband shot
himself."
Investigators really dropped the ball on this one--if she shot him
from "a few feet away", a good detective and pathologist should have
known this wasn't a accident or suicide.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Four years after Helton's death, Michele married Nathan. Once they
began having marital problems, Nathan entered counseling. It was there
that he revealed the homicide to a counselor, who asked church leaders
for help."
LOL--He entered counseling because he knew that when his wife was
having "marital problems" with her *previous* husband, he wound up
with a bullet in his head.
Kris Baker
> upbringing it wasn't really an option."
>
> Divorce wasn't an option but MURDER was?!!
I'm sure you've seen the sickening web page about
her, haven't you? That's JUST how these people
think!
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
------
> "She said that at about 4 a.m. she pointed a pistol at Helton from a
> few feet away and pulled the trigger, the report said. But she told
> police a different story at the time, claiming that her husband shot
> himself."
>
> Investigators really dropped the ball on this one--if she shot him
> from "a few feet away", a good detective and pathologist should have
> known this wasn't a accident or suicide.
You think they should have doubted a good Christian girl? ;)
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
------
> "Four years after Helton's death, Michele married Nathan. Once they
> began having marital problems, Nathan entered counseling. It was there
> that he revealed the homicide to a counselor, who asked church leaders
> for help."
>
> LOL--He entered counseling because he knew that when his wife was
> having "marital problems" with her *previous* husband, he wound up
> with a bullet in his head.
...and he still hasn't made HIS "contribution" to the web page.
LOL is right.
Kris
javaluuver
>
> THE PHOENIX GAZETTE Copyright (c) 1993, Phoenix Newspapers Inc.
>
> DATE: Wednesday, May 26, 1993
> PAGE: A12
>
> MAN ACCIDENTALLY SHOOTS HIMSELF
>
> A man who thought his home was being burglarized accidentally shot
> himself in the head.
From four feet away!?!?!? ... and this got past the medical examiner?
*shaking head* ... Yanno I lived in AZ during this time, but it was before I
had a computer and the papers were probably pretty lax about an 'accidental
shooting' or suicide ...amazing you got any info at all about this ..but
glad you did!
Thanks for getting the news stories .... sheds a bit more light on the
character of his 'wife' ... uh huh, divorce is out, but murder is a-otay
buh-wheat! ......sheesh ....
java~
IBegg2Differ
>news:75a2e6cd.03070...@posting.google.com...
>> Here are the articles:
>>
>> THE PHOENIX GAZETTE Copyright (c) 1993, Phoenix Newspapers Inc.
Wow! How did you find those? I was still (well, *am* still) planning to take
a day off work to go down to the courthouse to find out more info. I haven't
had the time, but I decided I wasn't going to rush myself; Michele isn't going
anywhere. ;)
I'd really like to know how you dug up those old articles, though. Did you
have to pay a fee at the Republic web site or something? I was thinking I'd
have to go to the library and try to dig up old newspapers; I thought maybe
nothing would be available online because it was so old.
IBegg2Differ
>upbringing it wasn't really an option."
>
>Divorce wasn't an option but MURDER was?!!
Hehehe. Don'tcha just love the way she thinks?
>"She said that at about 4 a.m. she pointed a pistol at Helton from a
>few feet away and pulled the trigger, the report said. But she told
>police a different story at the time, claiming that her husband shot
>himself."
>
>Investigators really dropped the ball on this one--if she shot him
>from "a few feet away", a good detective and pathologist should have
>known this wasn't a accident or suicide.
>
>
You would think, eh?
>"Four years after Helton's death, Michele married Nathan. Once they
>began having marital problems, Nathan entered counseling. It was there
>that he revealed the homicide to a counselor, who asked church leaders
>for help."
>
>LOL--He entered counseling because he knew that when his wife was
>having "marital problems" with her *previous* husband, he wound up
>with a bullet in his head.
>
I often wonder how people can enter into a relationship with someone whom
they've had an affair with, since they already know the person is a liar and a
cheater and can't be trusted. I can't imagine in my wildest dreams what makes
someone want to marry a person who murdered their previous spouse. Talk about
always sleeping with one eye open!
IBegg2Differ
up for me (I had to go to Google and find it when I saw the replies here), but
I loved the part toward the end where the detective (or whoever) said how
"remorseful" she was when she turned herself in. Having had benefit of reading
her prison letters already before seeing that remark, I thought to myself how
even *now* she doesn't appear remorseful. Since I can't possibly believe that
detectives are naive enough to buy her "remorse" after eight years of silence,
I had to think what he probably really thought was more like "she looks so
pretty and blonde...ahem...I mean remorseful".
My2Cents
> have to pay a fee at the Republic web site or something? I was thinking I'd
> have to go to the library and try to dig up old newspapers; I thought maybe
> nothing would be available online because it was so old.
I emailed the archive person at the newspaper; because the online
archives are down, he emailed me the articles that were found. No
charge. ;)
IBegg2Differ
>archives are down, he emailed me the articles that were found. No
>charge. ;)
Gosh, I am so ashamed of myself. All I had to do was ask someone, and I didn't
even think to do that. LOL.
Thanks for the detective work!
schnugelischnugg
> WARNING: This is gonna be long (LOL).
>
> This case is something I'm just curious about the details of and I can find
> *none* of them anywhere. It's making me crazy, probably just because I can't
> find anything...lol. Anyway, if anyone here is really good at researching this
> stuff, I'm trying to find the details of the crime and the name of the victim.
>
> Here's how I got interested: I got a phone call the other night from a friend
> asking me if I could verify a rumour she'd heard. The story was that a girl
> (woman now of course) that we both went to high school with had murdered her
> husband. Supposedly she convinced everyone at the time that it was an accident
> and got away with it, but she confessed over ten years later and is now in
> prison. I was *very* curious, as anyone who'd known this girl would have been.
> She was *perfect* in high school, and I mean that. Beautiful, good student,
> good family, very wealthy, and friendly to boot. Sheesh.
>
> I hunted around online and verified that the rumour was true. What I *can't*
> find, however, are any details of the crime. I can't even find out the name of
> the victim (sure would like to know if he was someone from our school as well).
> I am soooo curious, and any help would be very much appreciated.
>
> Here's what I *do* know:
>
> * This woman's name was Michele Lynne Ritzenthaler in high school and is now
> Michele Lynne Millikan.
>
> * The murder would have taken place in Arizona (most likely Scottsdale or
> Phoenix) some time between 1985 and 1991.
>
> * Michele was having an affair at the time of the murder.
>
> * She remarried at some point after the murder to a man named Nate Millikan,
> who is *not* the man she was having an affair with. She is still married to
> Nate.
>
> * Michele was heavily involved with an organization called Victorious
> Christian Living (VCL) throughout the 1990's in Phoenix, and may have met her
> current husband through VCL.
>
> * Michele confessed to the murder, first to friends and family and then to the
> authorities, sometime in 2001.
>
> * In August of 2001 Michele was indicted for first degree murder, but
> negotiated a plea bargain in 2002, reducing the charge to second degree murder,
> for which she was sentenced to 18 years.
>
> * Michele went to prison in June of 2002 (Perryville Prison in Arizona).
>
> * Info on Michele (spelled "Michelle" with two L's) on the Arizona Department
> of Corrections web site lists one of her aliases as "Michelle Helton", so her
> first husband's name may have been Helton.
>
> * People named Donna Helton and Steve Helton testified at Michele's sentencing
> hearing, furthering my suspicion that the victim's name may have been Helton.
>
> * In 1990, Donna Helton petitioned the court in Arizona (probate court) to
> become the legal guardian of a minor named Christa Potts. I don't know if this
> is related to the case or not, but the timing would be right if this were a
> child of Michele's deceased husband, although this is the only reference to the
> name "Potts" that I have seen.
>
> * I can find no record in the Social Security Death Index of a male named
> Helton who died in Arizona within the right time frame to match this case.
>
> * I can find no cemetery record for a male named Helton in Arizona with the
> right time frame, either.
>
> And that's where I am. I can't find anything else. I'd really, really, like
> to know who the victim was and how he was killed. Anyone here have a little
> too much time on their hands and an inclination to do a little research?
i just found this and decided that, even though this is so long ago, i would answer you. i knew michelle in high school. she was not very outgoing, more like the quiet type. very pretty, a cheerleader for a while. went out with a guy from my class for two years...ours was a christian school, and there were a few religious fanatics there to say the least. we were taught that divorce was evil. this gets me to my speculation as to why this murder took place. and mind you, it's just speculation! her father and her husband worked together. then this ex-criminal started working there, and apparently michelle and this guy had an affair. she wanted to be with him, and decided that it would be easier to play the grieving widow in that christian family than to admit she fell for the other guy and failed in her marriage and wanted a divorce. i'm really condensing this for you. i am very familiar with the way some families in that school think. i also heard that she actually shot her husband dead and it looked like a suicide...her father ended up involuntarily helping solve the case by refusing to believe his sil would kill himself... i guess she finally confessed--a long time after it happened and--after remarrying--dang, girl!! i read some stuff about the prison magazine she founded...is she supposed to be a good person now? i do not know what her victims name was.
mc...@pitt.edu
Ma-an.
You couldn't make this stuff up.
gabey...@bluewin.ch
i also did a little research and found out some stuff, but it's all here, so no need to repeat things. but i did not find anything that supported the info someone gave me that nate was an ex-criminal. apparently he was just living with michelle and stuart for a while when he was studying at that vcl center.
schnugelischnugg
> >"Michele said she thought of divorce, but due to her Christian
> >upbringing it wasn't really an option."
> >
> >Divorce wasn't an option but MURDER was?!!
>
> Hehehe. Don'tcha just love the way she thinks?
>
> >"She said that at about 4 a.m. she pointed a pistol at Helton from a
> >few feet away and pulled the trigger, the report said. But she told
> >police a different story at the time, claiming that her husband shot
> >himself."
> >
> >Investigators really dropped the ball on this one--if she shot him
> >from "a few feet away", a good detective and pathologist should have
> >known this wasn't a accident or suicide.
> >
> >
>
> You would think, eh?
>
> >"Four years after Helton's death, Michele married Nathan. Once they
> >began having marital problems, Nathan entered counseling. It was there
> >that he revealed the homicide to a counselor, who asked church leaders
> >for help."
> >
> >LOL--He entered counseling because he knew that when his wife was
> >having "marital problems" with her *previous* husband, he wound up
> >with a bullet in his head.
> >
> I often wonder how people can enter into a relationship with someone whom
> cheater and can't be trusted. I can't imagine in my wildest dreams what makes
> always sleeping with one eye open!
E
> WARNING: This is gonna be long (LOL).
>
> *none* of them anywhere. It's making me crazy, probably just because I can't
>
> Here's how I got interested: I got a phone call the other night from a friend
> asking me if I could verify a rumour she'd heard. The story was that a girl
> husband. Supposedly she convinced everyone at the time that it was an accident
> and got away with it, but she confessed over ten years later and is now in
> good family, very wealthy, and friendly to boot. Sheesh.
>
> find, however, are any details of the crime. I can't even find out the name of
> I am soooo curious, and any help would be very much appreciated.
>
>
> * This woman's name was Michele Lynne Ritzenthaler in high school and is now
>
> * The murder would have taken place in Arizona (most likely Scottsdale or
> Phoenix) some time between 1985 and 1991.
>
> * Michele was having an affair at the time of the murder.
>
> * She remarried at some point after the murder to a man named Nate Millikan,
> who is *not* the man she was having an affair with. She is still married to
> Nate.
>
> * Michele was heavily involved with an organization called Victorious
>
> * Michele confessed to the murder, first to friends and family and then to the
> authorities, sometime in 2001.
>
> * In August of 2001 Michele was indicted for first degree murder, but
> negotiated a plea bargain in 2002, reducing the charge to second degree murder,
> for which she was sentenced to 18 years.
>
> * Michele went to prison in June of 2002 (Perryville Prison in Arizona).
>
> of Corrections web site lists one of her aliases as "Michelle Helton", so her
> first husband's name may have been Helton.
>
> * People named Donna Helton and Steve Helton testified at Michele's sentencing
> hearing, furthering my suspicion that the victim's name may have been Helton.
> * In 1990, Donna Helton petitioned the court in Arizona (probate court) to
> name "Potts" that I have seen.
> * I can find no record in the Social Security Death Index of a male named
> Helton who died in Arizona within the right time frame to match this case.
>
> * I can find no cemetery record for a male named Helton in Arizona with the
> right time frame, either.
>
> too much time on their hands and an inclination to do a little research?