BTK
vivisectrix
>Wichita Eagle reporter Hurst Laviana.
>Laviana received the letter last Friday. The return address on the
>envelope gives the name "Bill Thomas Killman." Take the first letter
>of each name and it spells B-T-K.
At first I thought, BTK (Bill Thomas Killman) might stand for "Better to
Kill You With" from Little Red Riding Hood (My, what big TEETH you have,
Grandma!), which would make him the Big Bad Wolf, but I think if that was
it, he'd have at least put in the Y. Say, something like Bill Thomas
Killman Young
So now I'm thinking it might just stand for "Better to Kill" or "Best to
Kill", and Li'l Red Riding Hood and the Big Bad Wolf never occurred to him
at all. Whaddaya'll think?
Vivi
--
I wanna play with a pathetic suicidal masochist. If you qualify,
or if you're just curious, you might find me on irc.bondage.com
in channel #torture.
IBegg2Differ
>Well,
>
>>Wichita Eagle reporter Hurst Laviana.
>
>>Laviana received the letter last Friday. The return address on the
>>envelope gives the name "Bill Thomas Killman." Take the first letter
>>of each name and it spells B-T-K.
>
>At first I thought, BTK (Bill Thomas Killman) might stand for "Better to
>Kill You With" from Little Red Riding Hood (My, what big TEETH you have,
>Grandma!), which would make him the Big Bad Wolf, but I think if that was
>it, he'd have at least put in the Y. Say, something like Bill Thomas
>Killman Young
>
>So now I'm thinking it might just stand for "Better to Kill" or "Best to
>Kill", and Li'l Red Riding Hood and the Big Bad Wolf never occurred to him
>at all. Whaddaya'll think?
>
The letters "BTK" are how this particular serial killer has been referred to in
the past. "BTK" stands for "bind, torture, kill" I believe.
Michael Snyder
> Well,
>
>
>>Wichita Eagle reporter Hurst Laviana.
>
>
>>Laviana received the letter last Friday. The return address on the
>>envelope gives the name "Bill Thomas Killman." Take the first letter
>>of each name and it spells B-T-K.
>
>
> At first I thought, BTK (Bill Thomas Killman) might stand for "Better to
> Kill You With" from Little Red Riding Hood (My, what big TEETH you have,
> Grandma!), which would make him the Big Bad Wolf, but I think if that was
> it, he'd have at least put in the Y. Say, something like Bill Thomas
> Killman Young
>
> So now I'm thinking it might just stand for "Better to Kill" or "Best to
> Kill", and Li'l Red Riding Hood and the Big Bad Wolf never occurred to him
> at all. Whaddaya'll think?
Dunno if you're looking for a straight answer or not...
The straight answer is, it stands for "Bind, torture, kill".
Which was his MO back in the 70's.
Kris Baker
"vivisectrix" <vivis...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:40635cb3...@news.individual.de...
> Well,
>
> >Wichita Eagle reporter Hurst Laviana.
>
> >Laviana received the letter last Friday. The return address on the
> >envelope gives the name "Bill Thomas Killman." Take the first letter
> >of each name and it spells B-T-K.
>
> At first I thought, BTK (Bill Thomas Killman) might stand for "Better to
> Kill You With" from Little Red Riding Hood (My, what big TEETH you have,
> Grandma!), which would make him the Big Bad Wolf, but I think if that was
> it, he'd have at least put in the Y. Say, something like Bill Thomas
> Killman Young
>
> So now I'm thinking it might just stand for "Better to Kill" or "Best to
> Kill", and Li'l Red Riding Hood and the Big Bad Wolf never occurred to him
> at all. Whaddaya'll think?
>
> Vivi
Bind, Torture and Kill = BTK. I don't know if the killer named
himself that, or if police did, but that's what it stands for.
TV Alert:
Dan Abrams (sitting in for Deborah Norville this week on MSNBC)
interviewed Laviana this evening -- and the show will be repeated
later tonight.
I'd like to hear what others here think of the interview; my
husband and I had the *same* exact reaction to something.
We said almost the same thing, at the same time.
Kris
Hieronymus
>
> Bind, Torture and Kill = BTK. I don't know if the killer named
> himself that, or if police did, but that's what it stands for.
He named himself that because he wrote BTK in Blood on the walls of the
Otero home.
Hieronymus
Kris Baker
"Hieronymus" <hierony...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:mxN8c.2215$mf.159@okepread05...
....and (researching), he identified "bind, kill, torture" in his
own letters to LE.
Kris
abdul rahim
he's clearly smarter than they are.
LadyLibra
news:c7c4f07f.04032...@posting.google.com...
> the police cannot stop him.
>
> he's clearly smarter than they are.
>
You're playing the role of Mr. Scary... avid fan?
Eopithecus
or psychics. BTK knows what he is going to do, the police do not. That
doesn't make BTK smarter or the police dumber. It simply means they
are on different playing fields.
Patty
By Dana Hertneky
KSNW-TV
Updated: 1:40 p.m. ET March 26, 2004
March 26 - Whatever you feel about the reappearance of BTK, you don't know how frightening
it can really be until you experience it for yourself. We talked to a woman who almost
became one of BTK's victims.
"He's a scary man. There's something definitely wrong with him," said "Sandy".
It was 1979 and Sandy came home from work early. She saw a light in her basement. That was
unusual, so she went to investigate. She found broken glass on the floor and semen all
over her walls -- calling cards of BTK.
"The police, they told me he has a thing for lingerie, so he went through all my drawers
and with the semen on my walls on my basement it was a repeated type of problem that he
would do," said Sandy.
Sandy lived in the 300 block of Old Manor, just three blocks from the Otero family, BTK's
first victims.
But after her possible visit from BTK, she never went back. She moved, changed her name
and bought a gun.
"I refuse to be his victim, then or now."
Sandy says she'll do what she did back then and keep that gun close to her.
Kris Baker
"Patty" <aie...@iuyc.com> wrote in message
news:a48aa83bd09c6361...@news.teranews.com...
> Woman says she was visited by BTK
> By Dana Hertneky
> KSNW-TV
>
basement. That was
> unusual, so she went to investigate. She found broken glass on the floor
and semen all
> over her walls -- calling cards of BTK.
>
> "The police, they told me he has a thing for lingerie, so he went through
all my drawers
> and with the semen on my walls on my basement it was a repeated type of
problem that he
> would do," said Sandy.
>
> Sandy lived in the 300 block of Old Manor, just three blocks from the
Otero family, BTK's
> first victims.
Aha. The "1634 S. Old Manor" address on the latest BTK envelope
DOES make some sense, and isn't that far from at least two of the
victims.
I think BTK is old and dying, and wants to be found. Now.
Stupid Mapquest doesn't let one enter more than one address at a
time, anymore. :(
Kris
Patty
"Kris Baker" <kris....@prodigy.net> wrote in message
news:Nqo9c.67716$Le7....@newssvr33.news.prodigy.com...
:
: >
: > Sandy lived in the 300 block of Old Manor, just three blocks from the
: Otero family, BTK's
: > first victims.
:
: Aha. The "1634 S. Old Manor" address on the latest BTK envelope
: DOES make some sense, and isn't that far from at least two of the
: victims.
:
: I think BTK is old and dying, and wants to be found. Now.
:
: Stupid Mapquest doesn't let one enter more than one address at a
: time, anymore. :(
:
: Kris
http://crimeandjustice.i8.com/images/btk_map2.jpg
Kris Baker
Thanks again, Patty.
Notice how the Wichita Eagle puts THEMSELVES in the center
of the "action"......and we have BTK (in at least one letter)
complaining that HE isn't getting enough publicity? I've
never seen a newspaper put themselves on a crime map
like that, putting themselves as the bullseye in the target.
Odd.
Something smells here, folks. Maybe it's just me, but
it's hinky.
Kris
Patty
: > Sandy lived in the 300 block of Old Manor, just three blocks from the
: Otero family, BTK's
: > first victims.
:
: Aha. The "1634 S. Old Manor" address on the latest BTK envelope
: DOES make some sense, and isn't that far from at least two of the
: victims.
:
: I think BTK is old and dying, and wants to be found. Now.
:
: Stupid Mapquest doesn't let one enter more than one address at a
: time, anymore. :(
:
: Kris
Posted on Fri, Mar. 26, 2004
Letter's address a vacant unit
Residents of the apartment complex BTK used as a return address are on heightened alert.
BY TIM POTTER
The Wichita Eagle
One of the mysteries surrounding BTK's latest communication is the return address on his
letter: 1684 S. Old Manor -- or "Oldmanor," as he typed it.
But for the families who live at Parkwood Village apartments, which includes the vacant
unit at 1684, BTK's use of that address is not only mysterious; it is frighteningly close
to home.
"I'm just dumbfounded on why he used that address. It's got everybody around her shooken
up," said Abby Tietsort, an apartment manager.
The neighborhood is one of two that have become the focus of recent developments in the
BTK case.
Those developments also have drawn attention to the 2400 block of West 13th Street, where
Vicki Wegerle was found strangled in her home on Sept. 16, 1986. Her killing had been
unsolved.
Police said they think a letter sent to The Wichita Eagle bearing pictures of Wegerle is
from the BTK killer and that he is in Wichita.
Police told The Eagle on Wednesday that they think BTK killed Wegerle.
At Parkwood Village, residents can only wonder: Did the serial killer randomly pick the
address? Did he once live there or know someone who lived there? Did something symbolic
happen there?
And perhaps the most disturbing question: Does he now live near the unit?
A woman had lived in the apartment for some time before it became vacant, Tietsort said.
Police searched the unit and storage areas around it, she said.
In light of the news about BTK and the address, she sent a letter to residents Thursday
telling them the unit is vacant and urging them to be alert and to contact police
immediately if they see anything suspicious. For the past year, the management has used
off-duty police officers to patrol on foot.
The small unit at 1684 S. Old Manor sits in a yellow-brick fourplex built years ago.
Markings in nearby sidewalks indicate the walkways were built in 1950. One resident
thought at least some of the units date to World War II.
The unit sits back from Old Manor, behind a large grassy area. A mailbox at the unit sits
askew, hanging partly by gray duct tape. Someone has carefully wrapped and hung twisted
pieces of wire from a porch railing.
Across the city, residents of the quiet Indian Hills neighborhood where Wegerle lived were
intrigued by the new twist in the case but seemed not to be worried.
"This neighborhood is calm and quiet," said Consuelo Trevino, who lives a few doors away
from the home where Wegerle was killed. "There's nothing going on."
Trevino said she moved into her home in 1987, the year after Wegerle's death, and recalled
that the murder was still "the talk of the neighborhood" even then. She remembered that
neighbors found it odd that nothing had happened to Wegerle's 2-year-old child, who was
home at the time of the killing.
After so many years, however, the news that the murder was the work of a serial killer had
little effect.
"I don't worry about it, myself," Trevino said. "It's no big deal. I'm not afraid."
Other Indian Hills residents said they had moved to the neighborhood after the Wegerle
murder, and in most cases were unaware that a killing had ever happened in the area. None
said they had discussed the case with their neighbors, and none expressed personal
concerns about the case.
At the apartments near Old Manor on Thursday, most of the neighbors contacted did not want
to give their names -- largely because they don't want the killer to know them.
One young man motioned to his teenage sister, who sat reading articles about the killer
resurfacing.
The man said the development -- and especially the return address on the BTK letter -- has
prompted his family to be extra careful. The family has decided that male relatives will
never leave any of the women alone.
One resident, 18-year-old Christy Fisher, when informed of the return address, seemed
stunned by the news. "He could have actually been there," she said, motioning toward the
unit.
"It just gives me a head rush.
"Hopefully somebody finds him."
Anon
>
> Thanks again, Patty.
>
> Notice how the Wichita Eagle puts THEMSELVES in the center
> of the "action"......and we have BTK (in at least one letter)
> complaining that HE isn't getting enough publicity? I've
> never seen a newspaper put themselves on a crime map
> like that, putting themselves as the bullseye in the target.
> Odd.
>
> Something smells here, folks. Maybe it's just me, but
> it's hinky.
>
> Kris
>
It's just you. The perp has been communicating with the newspaper, so the
newspaper building is part of the story. It would have been irresponsible
for the newspaper to exclude their building from the map. -Dave
Kris Baker
"Anon" <no...@nohow.not> wrote in message
news:6274a9ec8dc6734a...@news.teranews.com...
Huh?
Using your logic, they should have put in an image of a mailbox,
and a little postman (kind of like that little yellow AOL 9.0 guy?).
Since you completely missed the point, all I can say is:
whooooooosssssssssh!
Kris
Hieronymus
>
> "Kris Baker" <kris....@prodigy.net> wrote in message
> news:Nqo9c.67716$Le7....@newssvr33.news.prodigy.com...
> :
> : >
> : > Sandy lived in the 300 block of Old Manor, just three blocks from the
> : Otero family, BTK's
> : > first victims.
> :
> : Aha. The "1634 S. Old Manor" address on the latest BTK envelope
> : DOES make some sense, and isn't that far from at least two of the
On our north and south addresses here in Wichita there are eight blocks
per mile. The north and south addresses begin at Douglas street. For
instance from Ninth street to Seventeenth street is one mile. Or from the
eight hundred block of north Edgmore to Douglas is one mile. From 803 N.
Edgmore to the 300 block of N. Old Manor is about one half mile or five
blocks. In this area of Wichita there are 10 small houses (about 1100
hundred square feet) on each side of the street. Edgemore is two streets
east of Old Manor. The Otero neighbourhood was built in the late 1940's.
Sandy's neighbourhood dates from the 1920's to the 1950's depending on which
block you are on. Robert J. Dole Department of Veterans Affairs Medical and
Regional Office Center is located at 5500 East Kellogg, on the corner of
Edgemore and Kellogg one mile from the Otero house. It was named for Dole
about three years ago. Before that we all called it the VA hospital. Over
the years the main theories from the coffee shop criminologists have been 1.
BTK was/is a Vietnam veteran who lives(d) at home with his parents. This
was the earliest one I remember hearing. There was one Vietnam vet who
lived with his parents in our neighborhood one block from the Otereo home,
which was proof enough for some wags that the police knew who BTK was. Some
even speculated that the vet, who ever he was, was receiving treatment at
the VA and killed when his medication wore off. It was said he was Special
Forces and killed because of flashbacks to Vietnam. 2. BTK was a Boeing
engineer who quit killing after he was transferred to Seattle Boeing. Some
believed that he turned into the Green River Killer. 3. The Oteros were
murdered by a crooked cop over drugs. The cop was never arrested because
the WPD could not get the needed proof. 4. BTK is a criminology professor
from Wichita State University who is taunting the police in a sort of murder
chess game. Those were the old theories that, apparently, have had staying
power because I heard them all again this week. There was another murder
called the Fager murders that happened in the 80's. A man was charged and
found not guilty. Many people still believe he is BTK. There is another
local guy who is an artist and many believed he was BTK. Bud Norman the
idiot reporter from the Wichita Eagle swears - off the record in a
conversation years ago - that this guy was a BTK suspect because of a
painting. The artist was friends with a certain woman who was murdered.
Supposedly, the artist painted a tribute to his friend that had details in
that only someone who saw the murder scene could have known. In many ways
we are back where we left off - who is BTK and will he strike again?
Stevie
Personally I think this story is fabricated. I think they are trying
to draw him out by crediting him with an impotent, unworthy crime. I
think he would be offended at the thought of LE thinking he would just
go to some womans house, sniff her panties and masturbate on her walls
without leaving a dead body behind.
Stevie
Where in the world did you get that information? Can you give a link?
Hieronymus
"Stevie" <ShellyL...@cox.net> wrote in message
news:53ee20bb.04032...@posting.google.com...
I remember reading about it in the Wichita Eagle Beacon newspaper when the
Oteros were murdered.
nonono
I was in Wichita in the 70's when the BTK was murdering people... I
remember it well, since I was a young woman living by myself. The
gossip I heard over and over was that the BTK was the member of the
family who owned Bridle and Saddle, and that he was never arrested
because of the family's money and influence.
Have you heard this rumor again recently?
Hester888Mofet
That's a good way to end up with another dead body. I don't think they would
taunt him that way. He may decide to kill someone else as an "Oh, yeah?" to the
police. Despite the fact that they might be able to catch him, I doubt they
would risk the lives of the public given that this guy has been hella clever.
Hester Mofet
Hieronymus
"nonono" <m...@adelphia.net> wrote in message
news:me-8BF49C.21...@isp.ash.giganews.com...snippage...> I was in Wichita in the 70's when the BTK was murdering
people... I
> remember it well, since I was a young woman living by myself. The
> gossip I heard over and over was that the BTK was the member of the
> family who owned Bridle and Saddle, and that he was never arrested
> because of the family's money and influence.
> Have you heard this rumor again recently?
stables. Older people told me that there was a rumor that the son of the
stable owners killed the two people in a jealous lovers rage. It is still
unsolved. The stables are gone now replaced by Carriage park shopping
center. Coincidentally, the stables were in back of Murdoch grade school
which was right across the street from the Otero house. Of course,the
Oteros did not live there when the stable murders occurred. I forgot about
that one, but yes it was floated around back in the seventies. I have not
heard that idea floated around this time. I don't know what happened tot he
family after the stables were sold.
Hieronymus
Patty
:
There was another murder
: called the Fager murders that happened in the 80's. A man was charged and
: found not guilty. Many people still believe he is BTK.
But they could have tested his DNA in the 1990s to find out he wasn't BTK. Do
you think Butterworth did kill the Fager family (father and two daughters) or do
you think it was the BTK Strangler? Why did Butterworth (contractor working on
building a sunroom to the Fager house) take the family car and drive to Florida?
Did he not have his own car? Apparently from what I've read the Wichita police
still believe Butterworth committed those murders on Dec 31, 1987, even though
he wasn't convicted. They also could have checked to see if the bullet that killed
Philip Fager matched the one that hit but did not kill Kevin Bright, not that the
killer would use the same gun.
AUTOPSIES SHOW CAUSE OF 3 DEATHS
Source: JOHN JENKS, STAFF WRITER Staff writer Sid Spaeth contributed
to this report.
Nine-year-old Sherri Fager was nearly strangled with half-inch-wide black electrician's
tape, then put in the 92-degree water of her family's hot tub, Sedgwick County Coronor
Robert Daniels said Friday. Her 16-year-old sister, Kelli, was drowned in the same tub.
Their father, Melvin Phillip Fager, 37, was shot twice in the back from close range - once
at almost point-blank range. One bullet pierced his heart and passed through his
chest.Those were Daniels' conclusions
Published on January 2, 1988, Page 1A, Wichita Eagle, The (KS)
Patty
: I've got family in the Wichita area, and I first remember hearing
: about this case as a kid. Honestly, I'd forgotten about it completely
: for years until it cropped back up last week. One theory I recall
: actually came from the "Jekyll & Hyde" murders that occured in Tulsa
: during 1975. They were similar in nature to BTK's work, and there was
: some speculation that the Tulsa murders were related to the Wichita
: ones. Never heard much about it beyond a few passing references in
: old Tulsa newspaper articles, but always kind of wondered if the two
: weren't related, as the Tulsa murders occurred during a time when BTK
: was dormant in Wichita. The "aerospace engineer" angle plays into
: that as well, as Tulsa his home to a major American Airlines
: maintenance base, and in 1975, had a big McDonnell-Douglas plant.
: At any rate, that's all speculation. I've always leaned to the
: theory that BTK was probably a student at WSU, or somehow connected to
: the school. It's been some time since I've been up there, but even
: with all it's growth over the past 30 years, Wichita's still a pretty
: compact city. As I recall, it's not a big walk from WSU to most of
: the crime scenes. I agree with the idea that BTK is getting old and
: trying to gain a bit of notoriety for himself - admitting to a killing
: 18 years ago. I did find the fact that John Douglas from the FBI said
: years ago that BTK probably took pictures of the crime scenes himself,
: and now the Eagle supposedly has those pictures from 1986, sent last
: week by BTK. I also have to admit that I think the Eagle is being a
: bit sensational about it - I was just reading the "Do You Know BTK?"
: story on kansas.com and found it more than a bit on the tabloid side.
I don't know anything about the "Jekyll & Hyde" murders that occured in Tulsa
in 1975. Sounds like the perp was never caught. Do you remember anything
about them? How far is Tulsa from Wichita?
When I think of Tulsa, I think of the nearby "Girl Scout Murders." In fact I recently
found a website with pictures about them.
Patty
"Bàidh Stidean" <I.am.me.as...@the.walrus.com> wrote in message
news:d8fe60p10jc3tfrd7...@4ax.com...
: On Sun, 28 Mar 2004 20:41:44 GMT, "Patty" <aie...@iuyc.com> wrote:
:
: : >
: >I don't know anything about the "Jekyll & Hyde" murders that occured in Tulsa
: >in 1975. Sounds like the perp was never caught. Do you remember anything
: >about them? How far is Tulsa from Wichita?
: About 200 miles, as the proverbial crow flies - takes about four
: hours to drive. The "Jekyll & Hyde" killings began in February of
: 1975, when Geraldine Martin, a student at Tulsa Junior College
: disappeared after a class. She was found 19 days later, stuffed in a
: closet inside an abandonded housing project that was being renovated.
: She hadn't been found for so long because an ice storm had interrupted
: work at the site. The one major difference in this case from BTK is
: that Martin had been raped twice - the second time after death, it was
: reported. She'd also been mutilated, her nipples were cut off and one
: was found inside her, the other was never found. The second victim
: was Marian Rosenbaum, a stripper that was found stabbed just outside
: the city limits on April 24, 1975. She had basically been hacked up,
: where Martin had been strangled. The last known victim was Suzanne
: Oakley on August 27, 1975 - she was grabbed from the jogging trail
: that runs along the Arkansas River early that morning and found later
: by a passer-by in the brush alongside the trail - she was also
: strangled.
: The links to BTK came up because both Martin and Oakley had been
: strangled. In Martin's case, the killer had taken her purse -
: everything else, her clothes, etc. had been found in the abandoned
: apartment. The purse was found a few days after her disappearance
: beside an expressway exit. Her wallet was missing, but a man
: attempted to use one of her credit cards at a department store the
: same day the purse was found. The card had bloodstains on it and when
: the store clerk became suspicious and called for security, the man
: bailed. Whether or not he was the killer or just a drifter who
: happened to have found the purse and swiped the wallet has never been
: determined. The description given of the man in the store, however,
: had some similarities to the descriptions given of BTK.
:
How were the murders in Tulsa tied together? Were there other unsolved
murders with similarities?
Wolf
If he kept his mouth shut until now, he could prove to be... since he
seems to have let his ego take over, apparently he's not that smart
after all - excluding his own opinion of himself. I'm betting he will
be caught (or identified, possibly posthumously :) this year.
Lorna
Bàidh Stidean <I.am.me.as...@the.walrus.com> spewed:
|| murder, that of a waitress from a bar in the same area as the place
|| Marian Rosenbaum danced at - that area of South Sheridan Road was
|| notorious for its strip joints and bars in the 1970's. She was found
|| in an abandoned strip mine in the adjacent county in late 1974. The
|| club where Rosenbaum worked was actually just two blocks from the home
|| of Geraldine Martin, which gave rise to speculation that the killer
|| frequented the area and eventually led to a "clean up" campaign by
|| then-Mayor (now U.S. Senator) James Inhofe in the 1980's that rid the
|| area of the bars and strip clubs. The only thing that did was close a
|| few bars, no suspects were ever turned up. In fact, there never was
|| any really serious suspect named in the Tulsa murders, the description
|| of the guy who tried using Martin's credit card was as close as the
|| Tulsa Police ever came to an actual person.
There's actually someone in custody for other murders that is also suspected
of having commited these ones, linked through DNA.
http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/metro/20030415-2204-cnsclyde.html
"Detectives in Tulsa, Okla., linked Wilkerson through DNA last year to the
slaying and rape of Geraldine Martin, 28, in February 1975. Charges have not
been filed in that case. He is a suspect in three additional killings and
rapes there."
--
My opinion may have changed, but not the fact that I am right.
Remove the _bozo to email me.
OzzieAnnie
"Brock Landers" <br...@jackhorner.xxx> wrote in message
news:Xns94BB196...@193.110.122.80...
> > I think BTK is old and dying, and wants to be found. Now.
>
Wars
> Episode III, so he got so depressed by it that he decided to let
himself
> get caught. :o)
Maybe he saw the Passion of Christ, but it only moved him to confess
a *little* bit.
OA
Vess
> wants to be caught and go down in history - and being caught 30 years
> after the first crimes? He's looking at that as his immortal "gift"
> to the world.
Personally, I suspect it may be slightly different... I have no doubt
that he wants big exposure and his "rightful place" in true crime
history, and he indeed likely wants to be known by his real name, too -
but the want of being actually *caught* does not seem to fit the
character that his MO, correspondence, profile, etc., seem to create. I
cannot imagine this character being ready and willing to welcome the
humiliating experience of being arrested, manhandled, examined,
interrogated, locked up, tried and finally put in, basically, a small
concrete box - complete with seeing and hearing the even more
humiliating reports analyzing everything from his childhood to his
capture in the smallest detail, over and over. That just does not seem
to fit him... Or perhaps he is actually delusional enough to think he
would be above all that, impervious to anything anyone might say or
do... But I would expect him to feel the need to be *identified* rather
than caught. Possibly identified posthumously...
Perhaps he actually *is* dead by now, or is truly expecting to die
*very* soon, e.g. having been told by a doctor six months ago that he
would not live for much longer than half a year...? Perhaps he sent the
letter not only to have his fun but to stir things up and attract
attention, cause a mass hunt, to make sure that, for instance, the final
confession that he left with a lawyer to be mailed to a mag after his
death will be taken seriously...
Or maybe he really did just get out of a prison or an asylum recently
and is just fuming to create panic again.
Patty
Maybe a family death or some other family business brought him back to
town. Authorities should check obituaries for the last month.
NurseRatchet
I disagree Hester. ( Love your name btw - great movie ) WPD has put
public safety second to their needs since this whole thing started.
Precious little info has been given to the public - they have hoarded
it all for safekeeping should a false confession need proofing. Rumors
have run rampant here for years that LE knows who the killer is and
that he is either the son of an elected official, the son of a
sheriffs officer or an officer himself. They just won't bring him in
due to the influence of the upper eschilon. As ridiculous as that
sounds I would almost believe it.
Did you hear what the WPD decided to do when the BTK tip line became
flooded with calls? They reduced the hours of the tip line rather than
get more volunteers to man phones. How backwards is that?
Chocolic
"NurseRatchet" <slic...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:48116787.04032...@posting.google.com...
In all fairness, usually the cutback is because of money . Tips were
(and are again) coming in by the thousands. That often shadows any
legitimate ones. Hiring more people to man the phones doesn't do crap
if there aren't enough LE to follow up on all the tips. What do you
mean by "precious little info given to the public...."??? You think
they need to give more (too much) info to feed your curiosity, yet
jeopardize their investigations? Too much info makes it that much
more difficult to weed out the false confessions or accusations that
often happen in a high publicized case. They have given hopefully
enough info to make the public alert and cautious, yet trying not to
cause mass hysteria. What more info do you want? The gory details?
Then you get the mass hysteria with the tips come in from everybody
that was looked at wrong, or they are pissed at their landlord, or
their ex-husband, or they made up to get attention.
Chocolic
NurseRatchet
Give me a break! How about information such as how he got inside the
crime scenes? When he got into the crime scenes? Was it daytime?
Nighttime? In other words, when should I be most alert and what should
I be most alert for? What's wrong with wanting to know this?
I resent your insinuation that I want to know the " gory details " and
that it's about my " curiosity ". I think that simply knowing how he
killed these poor people and the nature and extent of his evil
depravity is more than enough. All I want is to keep the same thing
happening to my family and me.
And as far as mass hysteria goes, we already have it. I can't believe
you haven't noticed it yet.
Hester888Mofet
>Maybe a family death or some other family business brought him back to
>town. Authorities should check obituaries for the last month.
I have a weird theory that maybe he stopped killing after he got married and
his wife died and now he feels like he doesn't have anything to hide/live for
and might as well go back to his old "self." Okay, so I think up some strange
things sometimes. I don't actually think it's true, more likely that he's on
the way out.
Hester Mofet
Chocolic
> "Chocolic" <chatt...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:<ai8ac.36655$tY6.1...@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>...
> > "NurseRatchet" <slic...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
In another post, you said it wasn't mass hysteria, you said it was:
"What seems like hysteria to those who don't live here is very real to
those of us who do." It sounds to me you are very much a part of the
hysteria. I wasn't deriding you for being scared shitless. I probably
would be too, what with all the publicity egging me on. That's
exactly what the BTK killer is feeding on. And yet you want more
details. I was deriding you for criticizing the police department for
not giving more information to feed the hysteria and which would make
their job all the more difficult, but you missed that.
You also stated in another post: "Almost everyone I know here had
some personal connection to one of the BTK murders in some way or
another". I find that extremely hard to believe. Eight people out of
400,000? And yes I could very often spend the day out and about
shopping and not run into anybody I knew or used to date or whatever
and my town is less than 200,000.
I guess I don't see why knowing how he got inside the crime scenes
(didn't one article say he broke in the back door?), or when he got
into the crime scenes (again, one article said he got in during the
day and hid in the closet of an intended victim that didn't come home)
would help. Just be alert 24/7. Keep your doors and windows locked.
Check your phone. Then live your life. What more???
Chocolic
Patty
>
NurseRatchet, since you're from Kansas, know anything about this
murder? Some strange murders there.
http://www.ksn.com/news/unsolved/
Did a killer go free or has he yet to be identified?
by Jason Kravarik
WICHITA, Kansas, May 12, 2003 -- By most accounts, Deanna Law was the
kind of person who always stayed strong, even when times were tough.
"My mother died when I was 12 years old, so she raised us from the
time we were 12, 10 and five. She's the only mother I knew," said
Deanna's sister, Risa Holland.
On May 11th, 1997, Deanna Law is found dead in her own home, face down
in the bathtub in a pool of blood.
Marianne Law, Deanna's sister-in-law said, "My husband found her first
and hollered, you know, 'I found her. Come here, we need to see if we
can do something for her.' It was very obvious that it was too late to
do anything."
Law had been sexually assaulted, horribly beaten and strangled to
death. The question now was who did it and why.
Hours before her murder, Deanna Law was seen at a bar talking to a man
no one had seen her with before.
"She ended up leaving the bar and walking home. And she somehow
arrived home. But who she arrived home with we don't know," said
defense attorney, Chrystal Krier.
Then the case broke. A call to 911 turned up an alleged killer. His
name was Bryan Kirkpatrick and he was about to confess to the crime.
"In the confession, it's six hours. He knows how and why. And he knew
stuff that no one knew," said Risa Holland.
But Kirkpatrick was not the man seen with Deanna at the bar. Instead,
he was her neighbor for 11 years.
"You couple that with a confession from a next door neighbor who had
an 11-year history with the woman. That would seem to be evidence that
is appropriate to take to a jury," said Deputy District Attorney Ann
Swegle.
And so it was. A jury was about to see Bryan Kirkpatrick confessing on
tape. It seemed an open and shut case.
"No one calls 911 and says 'I killed somebody' if they didn't do it,"
said Holland.
Almost one year to the day after Deanna Law was found raped and beaten
to death, justice in her case would reach its peak. The man who
confessed to the crime went free -- the charges were dropped.
"Our defense was that he had given a false confession," said Krier.
But the reason for that was even more explosive. Krier argued her
client was obsessive-compulsive and was convinced Law's family thought
he was the killer.
In Kirkpatrick's mind, a DNA test was the only way to prove he wasn't.
"He had gone to the police station two times, two different stations
on two different occasions, asking to submit to DNA samples and they
sent him away," said Krier. "One of the officers even made a notation
they thought he was crazy."
So confessing, Krier says, was a last resort -- a desperate attempt to
be taken seriously.
Although police would not release his taped confession, Krier says
Bryan Kirkpatrick spent three hours denying he was the killer, all the
while, begging for a DNA test.
"At the point where the detective says, 'I promise, we'll take your
DNA. We'll do it.' then he says, 'Alright, I killed her.' after he
gets the assurance that his DNA will be taken, then he proceeds to
tell the story about how it happened," said Krier.
"He generally related a story about how he had had an affair with the
victim and how he ultimately ended up beating her and strangling her
and killing her," said Swegle.
It was a story that mystified psychologists who said, indeed, Bryan
Kirkpatrick was obsessive-compulsive.
Risa Holland doesn't believe it. "He's never been treated for
obsessive-compulsive and they just used it for a ploy to get him a
defense."
"You can be obsessive-compulsive, but you can still kill," comments
Law's sister, Debbie Tuter.
But the jury was hung. And if the controversial confession didn't do
it, a lack of convincing physical evidence may have.
Hair samples couldn't link Kirkpatrick to the crime, nor could Law's
body itself. Science excluded him as a lone rapist.
"If she had had sex with two or more people, then he was not excluded,
but then basically no one was excluded including the president of the
United States," notes Krier.
The case never made it to a second trial. To this day, Law's family is
convinced the real killer eluded justice, hiding all along behind an
elaborate defense.
"Ms. Law's family is completely obsessed with the fact that it was
Bryan Kirkpatrick, when in reality, I believe that it was someone else
and they're still out there," said Krier.
Bryan Kirkpatrick's attorney says he is now being treated for
obsessive-compulsive disorder.
If you know anything about this case, you are asked to please call
Crime Stoppers at 267-2111.
Kris Baker
"Patty" <eartha...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:f0e77308.04033...@posting.google.com...
>
> Then the case broke. A call to 911 turned up an alleged
> killer. His name was Bryan Kirkpatrick
OK, what's his middle initial? We've got a "B", we've
got a "K"....and need a "T".
"BTK" wasn't chosen as a logo, at random.
Kris
Patty
He's too young. He was born in 1960 and his middle initial is G.
MAN CONFESSED, THEN DENIED HE KILLED WOMAN * A JURY ON MONDAY HEARS
PART OF A TAPED POLICE INTERVIEW WITH BRYAN KIRKPATRICK.
Source: Joe Rodriguez, The Wichita Eagle
Just a few hours after he told a Wichita police officer that he
murdered Deanna Law, Bryan G. Kirkpatrick strongly denied that he had
done so.A Sedgwick County jury heard his denial on Monday in an
interview with him that police taped on Sept. 18. It was on that day
that Kirkpatrick, 38, called 911 and said he wanted to confess to a
murder, according to previous testimony. When officers arrived at his
mother's home, he told them he had strangled Law, 53, four months
Published on May 19, 1998, Page 12A, Wichita Eagle, The (KS)
MURDER SUSPECT KEPT ASKING FOR DNA TEST * BRYAN G. KIRKPATRICK IS
CHARGED WITH FIRST-DEGREE MURDER IN THE DEATH OF HIS 53-YEAR-OLD
NEIGHBOR.
Source: Erin Kennedy, The Wichita Eagle
Bryan G. Kirkpatrick contacted police three times asking if he was a
suspect in his neighbor's murder.No, they kept telling him. They
refused to do the DNA test that Kirkpatrick insisted would clear him
of the sexual assault and strangulation of Deanna Law, 53.Finally, in
desperation, Kirkpatrick called 911 and said he had killed the
woman.That was the account that his defense attorney, Crystal Krier,
gave during opening statements Wednesday in Kirkpatrick's murder trial
Published on May 14, 1998, Page 9A, Wichita Eagle, The (KS)
CALL TO 911 CRACKS HOMICIDE * A 37-YEAR-OLD MAN TURNED HIMSELF INTO
POLICE FOR THE KILLING OF HIS NEIGHBOR IN MAY.
Source: Robert Short, The Wichita Eagle
A 37-year-old Wichita resident called 911 this week and told
dispatchers he was responsible for a "serious crime" committed earlier
this year in Wichita.Police say the crime that Bryan C. Kirkpatrick
wanted to talk about was an unsolved murder.On Friday, prosecutors
charged Kirkpatrick with second-degree murder in Sedgwick County
District Court in connection with the killing of his next-door
neighbor, 53-year-old Deanna Law.Kirkpatrick lived one house north of
Law in the
Published on September 20, 1997, Page 11A, Wichita Eagle, The (KS)
POLICE ASK HELP TO SOLVE SLAYING. DETECTIVES SEARCH FOR WITNESSES WHO
MAY HAVE SEEN A WOMAN THE NIGHT BEFORE SHE DIED.
Source: Robert Short, The Wichita Eagle
Tests show that a Wichita woman found strangled in her upstairs
bathroom Sunday had been sexually assaulted, police said
Wednesday.Deanna Law, 53, was last seen Friday night with a man at
Kara's, a neighborhood tavern at 518 W. Harry. Law's brother found her
body Sunday afternoon in her home in the 1400 block of South Market.
Police said this week that she was probably killed sometime Saturday
morning.On Wednesday, investigators appealed to the public for help
pinpointing
Published on May 15, 1997, Page 15A, Wichita Eagle, The (KS)
Article 9 of 9; 332 words
POLICE SAY DEAD WOMAN WAS STRANGLED.
Source: Robert Short, The Wichita Eagle
A Wichita woman found dead in her house over the weekend was
strangled, according to preliminary autopsy results released
Monday.Deanna A. Law, 53, was found by a family member Sunday
afternoon in an upstairs room of her house at 1423 S. Market. Police
said the body showed some bruises.Homicide investigators plan to
release a sketch today of a man who was seen with Law on Friday, said
police Lt. Ken Landwehr."Nobody in the family seems to know this guy,
so we want to identify
Published on May 13, 1997, Page 12A, Wichita Eagle, The (KS)
Kris Baker
"Patty" <eartha...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:f0e77308.04033...@posting.google.com...
> "Kris Baker" <kris....@prodigy.net> wrote in message
news:beGac.593$yA2...@newssvr32.news.prodigy.com...
> >
> > "Patty" <eartha...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > news:f0e77308.04033...@posting.google.com...
> > >
> > > Then the case broke. A call to 911 turned up an alleged
> > > killer. His name was Bryan Kirkpatrick
> >
> > OK, what's his middle initial? We've got a "B", we've
> > got a "K"....and need a "T".
> >
> > "BTK" wasn't chosen as a logo, at random.
> >
> >
> > Kris
> >
> >
>
> He's too young. He was born in 1960 and his middle initial is G.
Yeah, you're right. Hard to imagine a 14-year-old starting a
serial killer profession.....and not spelling his initials right.
Kris
Threnody
>
> "Patty" <eartha...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> He's too young. He was born in 1960 and his middle initial is G.
>
> Yeah, you're right. Hard to imagine a 14-year-old starting a
> serial killer profession.....and not spelling his initials right.
Been to a public school lately? :)
--Threnody
Hieronymus
"Threnody" <dov...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:Xns94BDA89B...@24.93.43.119...
His father was a court reporter and he was a classmate at Robinson Jr. high
with Carmen Otero.
NurseRatchet
I suggest you go to the discussion board at Kansas.com and see how
many other wichitans have said the same thing I said about the
personal connections to the murders. See what they say about wichita
being a big city small town. It's true. If you have any kind of life
here at all, whether it's through your job, your social habits or your
family or your church, you are always bumping into someone you know or
who knows you/has heard of you. Ask another Wichitan - they'll tell
you.
As far as the rest of your post goes, whatever. Yes, I am scared. I
owe no apologies for that. Yes, I am checking my doors and windows and
calling my college age daughter every night to make sure she is safe.
And I will be very glad when this is all over with. I am weary of it
all already.
seesthru
eas Jouhn Douglas who was the inspiration for the character " Jack
Crawford" in "silence of the Lambs".. I saw a picture of him with the
actor who played the charatcter in the movie, on the "silence of the
Lambs" set.
Kris Baker
"seesthru" <sees...@peoplepc.com> wrote in message
news:e897e5be.04040...@posting.google.com...
Obviously you know very little about John Douglas, and how
many cases have been slowed down/ruined by this fake
"create a job" theory that you can "profile" a case to determine
a suspect, based on past cases.
Anyone can say "A white guy, 30-35 years old, has trouble
with social situations and women" and be right part of the
time.
Kris