More details on young serial sniper in PA who killed gal at random outside supermarket,he had copy of "Hannibal" book & movie tickets for Summer of Sam
Joe1orbit
No time to offer commentary, but here are several interesting new articles on
Donald Anthony Traub, the young serial sniper who shot to death a gal as she
exited a supermarket on Wednesday, in a totally random attack. Some interesting
details on his demeanor, and it's GREAT to hear that Donald is a fan of Thomas
Harris and had his new Hannibal book with him, as well as TICKETS to the Summer
of Sam movie, when cops arrested him.
Take care, JOE
The following three news articles all appear courtesy of the 9/2/99 online
edition of The Philadelphia Daily News newspaper:
Friends claim: Slay suspect lived in twisted fantasy world
by Myung Oak Kim
and April Adamson
Daily News Staff Writers
Alone in his room for days at a time, the scrawny teen retreated into a
fantasy world of violent video games and Dungeons and Dragons.
Donald Anthony Traub, known to family and friends as Donny, preferred his
computer screen to playing sports with neighborhood boys. The only time he
ventured out was to shoot fake guns at other kids in the woods.
He was a middle-school honor student, one of his former classmates and
neighbors recalled yesterday. But his source of pride was in the mall arcade,
where he could beat anyone at Street Fighter II, a complex game that involves
dueling against an imaginary opponent.
When he played Street Fighter and other video games, friends were struck by his
sinister smile.
It was the same smile Traub, 23, gave reporters after he was arrested Tuesday
and charged with killing a woman outside a Warminster grocery store.
"I recognized it in a heartbeat," said Patrick Cohen, 21, a childhood friend
and former neighbor of Traub who last saw him a few years ago at the Willow
Grove Park mall arcade where they went as middle- schoolers. "It was that same
twisted smile."
As police yesterday tried to determine a motive for the bizarre shooting of
Ivyland mother-of-two Karen Lee Hordis, 42, they acknowledged that they may
never know what spurred the violent act.
But psychologists raised the possibility that something triggered Traub to act
out his fantasy world.
"He may have felt he was part of the game when he left the house," said Los
Angeles psychologist Robert Butterworth. "Some deviants are triggered by these
things. Maybe he got so into the games he had a delusion he was in the game."
Sources say that since his arrest Tuesday, Traub is considered the "prime and
only suspect" in two similar shootings last year in Warminster and Horsham.
Donna Holbrook, whose mother lived near Traub's father on Date Street in
Warminster, was shot in the face and neck Aug. 19 as she got out of her car to
go to work in Horsham. On Aug. 24, Shawn Vanorder was shot in the back and leg
as he rode his bicycle to work on Street Road in Warminster.
Hordis was shot five times Tuesday morning as she loaded groceries into the
trunk of her white Ford Taurus at the Giant supermarket near Street and York
roads in Warminster.
She died instantly of wounds to her head, shoulder, back and chest from Traub's
.38-caliber snubnose revolver, police said.
In Traub's Willow Grove boarding house yesterday, a stockpile of violent movies
and books offered a glimpse into the mind of the alleged killer.
Sources say investigators whosearched Traub's $65-a-week apartment found two
dozen videotapes of violent movies, and two dozen books, including "Mein Kampf"
by Adolf Hitler.
Police found a copy of "Hannibal," a book about fictional serial killer
Hannibal Lechter, and several ticket stubs for the movie "Summer of Sam," about
a 1970s serial killer in New York.
They also found a badge and hat from Wells Fargo in Valley Forge, where Traub
was once a security guard.
Hordis' murder "hits home like a silver bullet because this can be anybody,"
said Bucks County District Attorney Alan Rubenstein. "The most frightening
killings are those where there is no apparent motive. This victim had no common
threads to the other victims."
When police stopped Traub's red Oldsmobile shortly after the shooting, he told
them: "I am the one you want. I did it." Then, in court, he told reporters: "I
didn't shoot anyone. I just carried a gun."
Traub, 23, is a William Tennent High School dropout who wore combat boots and
trenchcoats, kept to himself and frequently exploded in fits of rage, neighbors
said.
Traub, who had no prior criminal record, was denied bail and detained at the
Bucks County prison.
---------------------------------------------------------
Experts: Random
killings feared most
Despite unlikely odds, panic prevails after acts of violence
by Scott Flander
Daily News Staff Writer
Random acts of violence like the supermarket shooting in Warminster really
shouldn't make us feel vulnerable.
After all, the odds of something like that happening to us are infinitesimal.
When was the last time somebody got shot by a stranger while loading groceries
into a car? It may never happen again.
Somehow, though, it doesn't feel that way.
When there's a random, violent act, for many people it doesn't matter that it
was a million-to-one chance.
The odds don't matter. The statistics don't matter. Emotion rules, not reason.
"When a horrible event like this occurs, our immediate reaction is panic - and
it is precisely at this point that we need our rational side to kick in," says
Barry Glassner, author of "The Culture of Fear."
And yet for many people, the rational side doesn't kick in at all. Fear takes
over.
One reason, says psychologist Judy Beck, is that we start out with an
unrealistic view of the world - the belief that we're safe all the time.
"Most of us go around with a myth that we're pretty invulnerable - that things
like car accidents and crime aren't going to happen to us," says Beck, director
of the Beck Institute for Cognitive Therapy in Bala Cynwyd. "When something
like this happens, we completely flip to thinking we're completely vulnerable."
In other words, we go from an unrealistic sense of security to an unrealistic
sense of danger. We're not grounded in reality from the start.
One reason, says Beck, is that we're brought up to believe that if we play it
smart, we'll be OK.
"A lot of people have the notion that if they lead good lives, good things
should happen to them," says Beck.
We often say that the victim of random violence was simply in the wrong place
at the wrong time.
But the problem, says criminal-justice professor Jack Greene, is that we really
don't know where the right place is.
You know you can cut your risk, for example, by not using ATMs at night, he
says. But how can you assess the risk of loading groceries into you car in a
suburban supermarket parking lot?
"All of a sudden you put this overlay of randomness," on your risk assessment,
says Greene, a researcher at Temple University. "We have no way as a society to
predict these things. As much as people think they have control over their
lives, there's still this random card out there, and it inspires fear in
people."
Our sense of the social order, and our belief that we can control it,
"dissolves in an instant when something like this happens," says Greene. "It
throws us all back together in our primal vulnerability."
When we hear about random violence, and somehow think it could happen to us,
we're playing out a worst-case scenario - something we're taught to do since
childhood, says Arthur Freeman, chairman of the psychology department at the
Philadelphia College of Osteopathic Medicine.
"We train our kids for a life of what-ifs," says Freeman. We try to tell them
how to deal with all the things that could go wrong, "to prepare them for the
crises in their lives."
But that can backfire by causing us to worry too much.
Author Glassner says that one way to overcome panic at a random crime is to ask
yourself, "Is this an isolated incident or a trend?"
If you realize it really is isolated, you may be able to handle it better. He
gives this advice as well:
"Don't let yourself become obsessed with the event - don't watch the news for
hours on end, and don't occupy you conversations at the water cooler for days
on end with this, because that's what perpetuates the fears."
Although dwelling on a random crime can intensify your fears, you shouldn't
pretend your fears don't exist.
Beck suggests setting time aside to talk it out with friends or family members,
"so thoughts don't fester beneath the surface."
--------------------------------------------------------------
Some killers can't say why they did it
"There was no reason for it. I don't know why I did it."
- Double murderer Caleb Fairley.
by Theresa Conroy
Daily News Staff Writer
For no reason, Caleb Fairley killed Lisa Marie Manderach, 29, and her
19-month-old daughter, Devon, in 1996.
For no reason.
Fairley was sentenced to two life terms in prison for the first-degree murders
inside his mother's Collegeville, Montgomery County, store.
The judge described him as "evil." The prosecutor said Fairley aroused
society's biggest fear:
"What do people fear most? Random violence," the Montgomery County prosecutor
said. "That is what makes this case so gut-wrenching. God protect us from the
Caleb Fairleys of the world."
Some of Philadelphia's most memorable murders in the last 10 years have been
inexplicable, random acts of violence.
They involved strangers and lacked any motive. Most have been committed by
someone who was mentally ill.
Here are a few of the random murders that have chilled the Philadelphia area
during the last 10 years:
Rose Knight was stabbed to death outside her South Philadelphia home Aug. 20,
allegedly by an 11-year-old girl. The girl just ran up to Knight and pushed a
butcher knife through her chest, police allege. Police said the girl "has the
mind of a 5-year-old."
In June 1997, Drue Cade, 69, ran into a Southwest Philadelphia Acme yelling,
"I'm not going to take it anymore." He opened fire, killing Steven B. Jeffrey,
and wounding three others. Then he shot himself to death.
In 1996, Fairley randomly selected Manderach and her daughter from customers
patronizing his family's childrens' clothing store in Collegeville. He
strangled them both and dumped their bodies.
Dr. Jean-Claude Pierre Hill walked onto the Benjamin Franklin Parkway in 1994
and began shooting. He killed Peter Foy and wounded two of Foy's coworkers.
Hill was sentenced to life in prison.
In 1991, Mark Linden and two buddies were standing on the corner of Newkirk
and Thompson streets in North Philadelphia, arguing about who would shoot into
a crowd of about 20 children. "I've got this one," Linden said. He killed Amin
Montgomery, 15. Linden was convicted of voluntary manslaughter.
Voices told Benjamin Frazier to kill someone in 1990. Frazier chose a
door-to-door cable TV salesman, James Wayock. Frazier was found guilty but
mentally ill.
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Josephine1Orbit
Well, I have a few minutes to say something about these articles. Interesting,
but, I get awfully tired of stereotypes. Especially dangerous and
irresponsible ones. There was similar 'reporting' on what happened in that high
school in Oregon. If anyone's interested, there's a marvelous website called
_SlashDot: News for Nerds. Stuff That Matters._with comments by high school
students on why they think what happened occurred.. I think the following
three articles tell a much more complete story and one not many people want to
hear. "Voices from the Hellmouth" by Jon Katz can be found at
http://209.207.224.40/articles/99/04/25/1438249.shtml "Why Kids Kill" at
http://209.207.224.40/articles/99/0422/2136230.shtml
and More Voices from the Hellmouth at
http://209.207.224.40/features/99/04/27/0310247.shtml
Guess what? <shock, shock>I have a copy of Mein Kampf in my house because I
wanted to figure out what it was about a bizarre looking, unappealing man that
could possibly have convinced anyone to do ANYTHING. I'd seen him on video
clip, heard that he'd been perceived as 'charismatic' and simply couldn't
believe it! Thought I might find out something by reading what he'd written.
In fact he was a crafty man and some of what's in that book is not unused by
today's societal players, imo. For example, the suggestion that certain books
in someone's possession automatically suggest something perverted and 'unfit'
about the owner. ; / I have some violent video games--I only take them out
when I'm pmsing, if then. Or does that make me a dangerous psychopath on a
'time schedule'? Truth is, it's cathartic and doesn't hurt anyone. I have a
black trench coat because (drum roll, please...) it's -flattering- for Pete's
sake, and although no one has actually told me I have a twisted smile, I do
notice I feel a certain glee when I listen to Joni Mitchell's song of the same
name. <g>
I suppose if someone came into my house they could just as easily take a look
at my book shelves (ignore the Rollo May, Erich Fromm, Alice Miller and others,
of course) and wonder why I have almost all of Jack Olsen's books, many books
on psychopathology and god knows how many serial murder novels! Wow, I guess
it's a perfect set up to frame me because all the neighbors are sure to say
"who knew? she seemed so nice... but 'those people' ALL pretend to be nice."
<sigh> Talk about instilling fear in people....!!!!
Josephine, no longer,
-- because it was never my intention to make fun of anyone or agree or disagree
with anyone, I just wanted to be a contender! <in my best Marlon Brando <g> Is
that so wronnnnnnnnnnggggg?
ps.. I thought Thomas Harris wrote a brilliant book--Hannibal--I read it the
day it came out in the local bookstore but now I know enough not to carry it
around with me when I go to the grocery store or anywhere I might frighten
someone. Yeah right.... Incidentally, Harris' insights into evil and how
aspects of society (read human nature) 'support' it, seemed absolutely right to
me.
>From: joe1...@aol.com (Joe1orbit)
>Date: Thu, 02 September 1999 05:46 AM EDT
>Message-id: <19990902054637...@ng-fg1.aol.com>
Martha
>
> Hi,
> Well, I have a few minutes to say something about these articles. Interesting,
> but, I get awfully tired of stereotypes. Especially dangerous and
> irresponsible ones.
<snip>
I agree. I live in the general area of this murder, and the local
coverage has been pretty amazing. Almost the first thing out of the
DA's mouth was criticism of Donald Traub's friends and neighbors for not
turning him in long ago, going so far as to say that if anyone had
reported Traub's bizarre behavior, Karen Hordis would be alive today.
(For anyone who hasn't been following the case, Donald Traub shot to
death Karen Hordis, a young suburban mother, as she was loading
groceries into her station wagon on a supermarket parking lot. Traub
has confessed to killing her, brutally and for no apparent reason, and
to two other recent non-fatal shootings.)
The fact of the matter is that Traub had been in trouble with the law
before--he was involved in a high-speed chase with the cops and ended up
in a bad car crash, for one thing, and had been in numerous minor fights
to which police had been called--but none of the cops related this white
man driving a red car to the shooting suspect who was described as a
white man driving a red car. And as for reporting someone's erratic
behavior: I can imagine the phone call. "Police? I want to report
that my neighbor, a white man who drives a red car, is walking around
talking crazy and threatening to kill people. He reads books about
murder and watches violent movies. Could you come talk to him?" "Lady,
has he *done* anything to hurt anybody?" "Well, no, but I think his
behavior is really scarey. Would you please check him out?" "I'm
sorry, but we can't do anything until he actually breaks the law.
Thanks for calling."
It's absurd to suggest that everyone who has a neighbor who acts
aggressive or enjoys violent entertainment or (god forbid) has Hitler's
book in his home turn in that neighbor for police investigation. I read
the papers thoroughly every day, paying particular attention to crime
stories, and the detail of the red car didn't make a big impression on
me--there are quite a few of them on the road, after all. To suggest
that the community bears guilt for not turning this man in before he
committed the murder is disgusting and childish.
Another detail in local coverage that annoys me: the funeral notice for
Karen Hardis (who was apparently a lovely person, mother of two young
boys, someone we can all relate to--someone who might be one of *us*)
requested that in lieu of flowers contributions to the Hardis children's
educational fund be sent to this address. Huh? She was a stay-home mom
with no independent income, afaict. Her murder suddenly becomes a
chance to build up the college fund? And you must realize how hard this
murder hit her community--the supermarket parking lot has become a
shrine of piles of flowers. People are really upset about this. But to
beg for money? Ech.
Martha
MariPS
home. She was not a "stay-at-home mom" per se, it's just that her working hours
were more flexible because she and her husband ran their own business. Beyond
the great personal loss that her family is dealing with, there is the loss of
her as a contributing partner in the Hordis family business. Someone else will
have to be hired to replace her in her role in the business. Sadly, nothing can
be done to replace her as a wife and wonderful mother. Yes, I know Karen and
her family. Please do not begrudge the family for looking out for the boys'
education. This was not a family of extraordinary wealth, and the loss of Karen
will be a financial burden (as well as an emotional one) for the family. What a
horrible, horrible tragedy.
M.
**********************************
Martha
>
> Martha, Karen Hordis and her husband ran a business together, out of their
> home. She was not a "stay-at-home mom" per se, it's just that her working hours
> were more flexible because she and her husband ran their own business.
That does make a difference. What kind of business is it? Would they
not have insured her, if her contribution to the business is going to
have to be covered by donations from strangers?
I'm sorry to sound so cold about this, but it's (obviously) one of my
buttons. I know that this was a horrible, terrible thing--thank god she
died instantly, apparently--and my heart aches for her husband and sons.
One of the most touching parts of the newspaper story was about her
husband getting into an almost-scuffle with the medical examiner who
wouldn't let the husband see the body until the autopsy was over--the
husband needed to know for sure that it was his wife. That about broke
my heart.
My sympathy for this family is not reduced by one iota by my distaste
for the request for money.
Martha
Sharonpo
>Another detail in local coverage that annoys me: the funeral notice for
>Karen Hardis
<snip>
>requested that in lieu of flowers contributions to the Hardis children's
>educational fund be sent to this address. Huh? She was a stay-home mom
>with no independent income, afaict. Her murder suddenly becomes a
>chance to build up the college fund? And you must realize how hard this
>murder hit her community--the supermarket parking lot has become a
>shrine of piles of flowers. People are really upset about this. But to
>beg for money? Ech.
>
>Martha
>
>
What part of "in lieu of" do you not understand, you boor?
Mr. Sweetness & Light
Martha wrote in message <37CFBD...@erols.com>...
>Another detail in local coverage that annoys me: the funeral notice for
>Karen Hardis (who was apparently a lovely person, mother of two young
>boys, someone we can all relate to--someone who might be one of *us*)
>requested that in lieu of flowers contributions to the Hardis children's
>educational fund be sent to this address. Huh?
Well it makes a bit more sense than spending it on dead or soon to be dead
flowers.
>She was a stay-home mom
>with no independent income, afaict. Her murder suddenly becomes a
>chance to build up the college fund? And you must realize how hard this
>murder hit her community--the supermarket parking lot has become a
>shrine of piles of flowers. People are really upset about this. But to
>beg for money? Ech.
This is incredible. Did you see the word "request"? This means that if you
had considered doing something like sending flowers, PLEASE consider using
that money another way. We WISH you would donate it instead to a fund which
will help with the now-motherless sons educations. Where in the world did
you come up with the idea they were BEGGING? I guess government handouts
aren't begging? I suppose they are something someone would be ENTITLED to?
Let's see, I got this at 5:21am so you probably typed this little thing
around 8am your time. It might help if you sobered up first. This is one of
the most callous and shallow remarks I've seen since Debby or Barbara opened
their electronic mouths. Have you no shame?
I think I can guess how much you're kicking in for a donation.
>
>Martha
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Sharonpo
>and if ~in lieu of~...puts some money
>in a college fund for her sons..
>i think someone has their priorities right
>in her family
A person dear to me lost a 17-year old daughter in a car accident. The obituary
requested that, in lieu of flowers, donations be made to a scholarship fund at
her school.
A friend lost his wife to an inoperable brain tumor. He requested that, in lieu
of flowers, donations be made to the American Cancer Society.
When my father died, we requested that, in lieu of flowers, donations be made
to the Alzheimer's Society.
If I die suddenly, and I have children in the home, the last thing I would want
is for people to send flowers to my funeral. I would want them to put the money
where it will benefit the children I've left behind.
Martha
> Ohhhh... how I agree with this. The problem is, the people left behind
> want to *do* something to show how they felt about the deceased. For some
> reason, expensive floral arrangements appear to be the only way to express
> the living's grief and mourning. Why not put that money to better use ?
>
> I have a living will. When I croak, I'm being cremated and my ashes will be
> scattered in my favorite place. I have asked, in lieu of flowers etc.,
> that the money to be donated to several organizations I'm active in. Most
> of them are animal related.
>
> OTOH, if I was worried my family couldn't meet the expenses, I would have
> written into the will the funds be placed in an account for them. This is
> not the case for me. I just want a big Irish wake at the place Steven and I
> met.
Well, we obviously disagree. I have no problem with requests for
contributions in lieu of flowers, when the contributions are to
organizations or, in the case of families with real financial
need--where, say, both parents are killed in a car crash or something,
for a fund to be set up for the minor children to which people can
contribute. I am a little distressed, though, when a family which has
had such a dreadful, dreadful loss as this one has, and when there is a
working parent left and no indication in the news stories that the dead
woman was responsible for bringing money into the household, that in the
midst of this sorrow they would request money for the children's
educational funds. I certainly have no objection to people asking for
donations to charities, especially charities which were involved with
the dead person's care--we requested donations to the hospice service my
mother-in-law used in lieu of flowers, and to the heart association when
my father-in-law died of a heart attack. And in fact those donations
spurred us to set up an annual gift to the hospice because we felt that
it saved *our* lives when we were caring for her.
Someone posted in response to my initial objection that this woman was a
partner in a business she and her husband ran from their home. This
does change my feelings a little, but I can't help wondering why she
wasn't insured (I am, and I don't earn a red cent). How is her death
going to have a negative impact on her children's college fund is what
I'm asking, I guess.
Lucky I'm willing to be the Most Hated Woman on Usenet, eh? We'd never
get to talk about these things otherwise!
Martha
Maggie
***I don't know a whole lot about this family so perhaps I'm speaking out of
turn, but while I am also a little put off by the request for money on behalf
of the children, I can certainly see how the mother's death would adversely
impact the family financially. A nanny/cleaner/car service/gardner may well
have to be hired, as well as a secretary/bookkeeper/manager for the family
business. In addition, the woman may have been planning to return to the
outside workforce once her children were older, in college, etc. to help pay
for their educations. None of this explains why she didn't have life
insurance, but it might explain why the father didn't care for the idea of
thousands of dollars being spent on floral arrangements that he felt could be
put to better use by replacing the income the mother would have brought in
later, or will have to be spent, sooner.
Maggie
"I don't pay them for sex. I pay them to leave."--Clark Gable on why he used
prostitutes
Martha
Of course, money spent on flowers for funerals is money flushed, but is
practical return on the dollars spent what funerals and their trappings
are all about, anyway? Like it or not, in the US we are prisoners of
the funeral industry, and we spend *lots* more money on funerals than
necessity demands. Why bother with a coffin when a shipping box would
do, for instance? I think that what florists like to call "floral
tributes" have become a measure of concern and affection from the
surviving friends and relatives--what was the first thing the community
did after this shooting? They piled flowers on the parking lot, just as
perfect strangers did when Lady Diana was killed a year ago. Giving
flowers is an expression of the giver's feelings, and I guess the root
of my objection is that it is not quite nice to dictate to someone what
form the expression of their feelings should take. I mean, I'm really
sort of miffed when people who are getting married have a big, expensive
wedding and then instruct guests to give them cash instead of presents.
But maybe that's just me.
Crabby,
Martha
Sharonpo
>I have no problem with requests for
>contributions in lieu of flowers, when the contributions are to
>organizations or, in the case of families with real financial
>need
I am offended by your arrogant stipulations on how someone might choose to be
remembered.
>I am a little distressed, though, when a family which has
>had such a dreadful, dreadful loss as this one has, and when
<snip of stupidity>
>and when there is a
>working parent left and no indication in the news stories that the dead
>woman was responsible for bringing money into the household, that in the
>midst of this sorrow they would request money for the children's
>educational funds.
You deserve a punch in the mouth. It would be an exercise in futility to try to
explain to you why a bereaved family would ask for positive reactions to its
loss. You are the most resentful creature I've ever run across.
<big snip>
>Someone posted in response to my initial objection that this woman was a
>partner in a business she and her husband ran from their home. This
>does change my feelings a little, but I can't help wondering why she
>wasn't insured (I am, and I don't earn a red cent).
Yeah, we know.
How is her death
>going to have a negative impact on her children's college fund is what
>I'm asking, I guess.
>
You're a fool, I guess.
>Lucky I'm willing to be the Most Hated Woman on Usenet, eh? We'd never
>get to talk about these things otherwise!
>
>Martha
>
Don't flatter yourself. You're a mental midget who abuses the *system* and has
a good time in the process.
You make me sick!
Maggie
>> >Well, we obviously disagree. I have no problem with requests for
>> >contributions in lieu of flowers, when the contributions are to
>> >organizations or, in the case of families with real financial
>> >for a fund to be set up for the minor children to which people can
>> >had such a dreadful, dreadful loss as this one has, and when there is
>a
>> >working parent left and no indication in the news stories that the dead
>> >woman was responsible for bringing money into the household, that in
>the
>> >midst of this sorrow they would request money for the children's
>> >donations to charities, especially charities which were involved with
>> >the dead person's care--we requested donations to the hospice service
>my
>> >mother-in-law used in lieu of flowers, and to the heart association when
>> >my father-in-law died of a heart attack. And in fact those donations
>> >spurred us to set up an annual gift to the hospice because we felt that
>> >it saved *our* lives when we were caring for her.
>> >
>a
>> >partner in a business she and her husband ran from their home. This
>> >does change my feelings a little, but I can't help wondering why she
>> >going to have a negative impact on her children's college fund is what
>> >I'm asking, I guess.
>> >
>> >get to talk about these things otherwise!
>>
>> ***I don't know a whole lot about this family so perhaps I'm speaking
>out of
>> turn, but while I am also a little put off by the request for money on
>behalf
>> of the children, I can certainly see how the mother's death would adversely
>> impact the family financially. A nanny/cleaner/car service/gardner may
>well
>> have to be hired, as well as a secretary/bookkeeper/manager for the family
>> business. In addition, the woman may have been planning to return to
>the
>> outside workforce once her children were older, in college, etc. to help
>pay
>> for their educations. None of this explains why she didn't have life
>> insurance, but it might explain why the father didn't care for the idea
>of
>> thousands of dollars being spent on floral arrangements that he felt could
>be
>> put to better use by replacing the income the mother would have brought
>in
>> later, or will have to be spent, sooner.
>>
>Of course, money spent on flowers for funerals is money flushed, but is
>practical return on the dollars spent what funerals and their trappings
>are all about, anyway? Like it or not, in the US we are prisoners of
>the funeral industry, and we spend *lots* more money on funerals than
>necessity demands. Why bother with a coffin when a shipping box would
>do, for instance?
***Actually, the laws in most states require not only a pretty solid box, but a
vault, as well. I think the problem they worry about is leakage. And the
funeral is, of course, for the living. Some people like small intimate potluck
dinners and others like big catered affairs at the country club. I don't
bother myself with whether someone has spent too much money for something they
could have gotten much more cheaply in a different form. If we all followed
that rule, we'd drive 20 year old Plymouth Valiants and live in tiny, totally
undecorated cottages.
martha said:
I think that what florists like to call "floral
>tributes" have become a measure of concern and affection from the
>surviving friends and relatives--what was the first thing the community
>did after this shooting? They piled flowers on the parking lot, just as
>perfect strangers did when Lady Diana was killed a year ago. Giving
>flowers is an expression of the giver's feelings, and I guess the root
>of my objection is that it is not quite nice to dictate to someone what
>form the expression of their feelings should take. I mean, I'm really
>sort of miffed when people who are getting married have a big, expensive
>wedding and then instruct guests to give them cash instead of presents.
>
>But maybe that's just me.
***I agree, but I don't see much of a parallel between wedding gifts and
funeral remembrances. After all, no one throws himself a big funeral in an
effort to get more floral arrangements--there's no implicit quid pro quo in a
funeral announcement as there is in a wedding invitation.
I think most of us who send flowers for funerals do it out of a sense of
obligation and a desire to just to *something*. I'm always delighted when the
death notice comes accompanied by a request for a donation to XYZ charity in
lieu of flowers, because I like to think my $40 is doing something other than
lining the florist's pocket and brightening a room for a few hours.
If you don't feel that this sort of request ("in lieu of flowers please
contribute to the American Heart Association") is unfairly dictating to someone
the form their expresion of feelings should take, I don't see why it matters
*which* particular charity is identified for contributions. I assume that
anyone who would be grieved enough by this death to express that sympathy
through a gift would know the family well enough to know whether there was
truly a need for cash or this was merely a money-grab (ok--in this age of
people leaving elaborate bouquets and stuffed animals at the homes and death
sites of total strangers that assumption is probably totally wrong).
Anyway, since there's not a chance in hell I'm sending anything to this family,
I don't really care how they make their requests for funeral remembrances.
Their friends will know (or will have ways of finding out) if the request is
legit. And I guess I can't get too worked up about the unfairness of a total
stranger to the family sending an unneeded monetary gift. Anyone that dumb
probably loses more money each month playing the lottery. Actually, I sort of
like the practicality of the college fund idea.
Auntie Jane
>Date: Sat, 04 September 1999 04:47 PM EDT
>Message-id: <19990904164711.23244.00001231@ng
Sharonpo wrote:
>
>I am offended by your arrogant stipulations on how someone might choose to be
>remembered.
>
Then perhaps I shall have to line up to be punched as well <sigh> In order
to ensure that no one is emotionally manipulated when I die, I've instructed my
family that I want the simplest of burials and no funeral service whatsoever.
I have, though, upon being cajoled by siblings and those who know me well, been
convinced that it would only be fair to allow them the opportunity for much
merry-making and revelry at my demise. Donations from each according to his or
her ability to party.
SIncerely,
Aunty Jane
Every9man
/wedding and then instruct guests to give them cash instead of presents.
/But maybe that's just me.
/Crabby,
/Martha
Hi Crab,
I think it is just as bad when they ~register~ at a Department Store, you might
as well just give them the cash.
I hate being told what to give as a gift. The pleasure of finding just the
right thing is taken away. I love buying gifts for people during the year when
I come upon something I know a certain person would love to have I usually cant
wait for a birthday or holiday to give it to them though.
Barbara=whose sign is Cancer-the Crab
Maggie
>/ I mean, I'm really
>/sort of miffed when people who are getting married have a big, /expensive
>/wedding and then instruct guests to give them cash instead of presents.
>
>/But maybe that's just me.
barbara said:
>Hi Crab,
>I think it is just as bad when they ~register~ at a Department Store, you
>might
>as well just give them the cash.
>I hate being told what to give as a gift. The pleasure of finding just the
>right thing is taken away. I love buying gifts for people during the year
>when
>I come upon something I know a certain person would love to have I usually
>cant
>wait for a birthday or holiday to give it to them though.
***Oh, yes. I remember you. You're that friend of my mothers who gave me the
silver-plated toast holder when I got married.
Let's face it. The majority of wedding invitations we all get are from people
who are not intimate friends. Most of the time we know one of the couple much
better than the other, we know neither very well but are friends of the
parents, we work with one of them, or we're very close, but haven't seen them
for quite a while. In situations such as these, it makes much more sense to
get the couple something you know they will like rather than something you
*think* they will like. Of course we all pick out something special for truly
close friends, but however mercenary gift registries seem, I think they save
both the giver and the receiver a lot of time and energy. I'm glad they're
there.
Martha
>
<snip> It's tacky as hell to request money. More often
> than not I find myself writing a check as a gift anyway. Some of our
> friends that have gotten married have lived together for years. Thinking up
> a gift for them is just impossible. I'm not real creative in that way.
> However, if the invitation requested cash in lieu of gifts, I'd probably run
> out and buy them a toaster they would have to return.
Me, too. We're bitches from the same litter, I guess. I always think
that my presents are better than money because I find things on sale
that I would never buy at full price--but maybe that's where Maggie's
toast holder came from! If people *don't* ask for cash I will often
give that to them, especially if they've been living together or it's
not the first wedding for either of them. And I *am* generous, as long
as I'm not asked.
I appreciate department store registries, too, but mostly because where
I come from it's sort of scandalous for the bride to need silverware or
china--she's supposed to have inherited that--so it's always good to
check up. Plus, and more seriously, you can find out what they've
already received, which is helpful.
But really, who cares? More stuff to dust, that's all.
Martha
Martha
Martha
>
> Re: the exchange below:
>
> Don't you think it's the asking...not the giving...that is the problem?
> I think all of us, as good-hearted beings want to do the right thing. But
> asking for something seems so..well gauche. If I had a close neighbor that died
> as this woman did, I'd want it to be my idea to give to the children. I'd
> probably send flowers AND a cash gift to the children (at a later date)
>
Yes. That's the point I was trying to make that got lost somewhere.
Martha
Every9man
From: maggi...@aol.comSPAMBLOC (Maggie)
martha said:
>/ I mean, I'm really
>/sort of miffed when people who are getting married have a big, /expensive
>/wedding and then instruct guests to give them cash instead of presents.
>
>/But maybe that's just me.
barbara said:
>Hi Crab,
>I think it is just as bad when they ~register~ at a Department Store, you
>might
>as well just give them the cash.
>I hate being told what to give as a gift. The pleasure of finding just the
>right thing is taken away. I love buying gifts for people during the year
>when
>I come upon something I know a certain person would love to have I usually
>cant
>wait for a birthday or holiday to give it to them though.
/***Oh, yes. I remember you. You're that friend of my mothers who /gave me
the
/silver-plated toast holder when I got married.
/Let's face it. The majority of wedding invitations we all get are from people
/who are not intimate friends. Most of the time we know one of the couple much
/better than the other, we know neither very well but are friends of the
/parents, we work with one of them, or we're very close, but haven't seen them
/for quite a while. In situations such as these, it makes much more sense to
/get the couple something you know they will like rather than something you
/*think* they will like. Of course we all pick out something special for truly
/close friends, but however mercenary gift registries seem, I think they save
/both the giver and the receiver a lot of time and energy. I'm glad they're
/there.
/Maggie
OHFERGODSSAKE Maggie, there you go again trying to inject some common sense
into my ramblings:)
You're right of course as far as those people we dont know well. I was just
bitching about a present I have to get for someone who I do know quite well but
whose future husband somehow doesnt think that my choice of a pissing gnome is
an appropriate decoration for his front lawn >G<.
Barbara
Every9man
From: "Dog3" <do...@mindspring.com>
Martha <ma...@erols.com> wrote in message news:37D169...@erols.com...
>
> Of course, money spent on flowers for funerals is money flushed, but is
> practical return on the dollars spent what funerals and their trappings
> are all about, anyway? Like it or not, in the US we are prisoners of
> the funeral industry, and we spend *lots* more money on funerals than
> necessity demands. Why bother with a coffin when a shipping box would
> do, for instance? I think that what florists like to call "floral
> tributes" have become a measure of concern and affection from the
> surviving friends and relatives--what was the first thing the community
> did after this shooting? They piled flowers on the parking lot, just as
> perfect strangers did when Lady Diana was killed a year ago. Giving
> flowers is an expression of the giver's feelings, and I guess the root
> of my objection is that it is not quite nice to dictate to someone what
> form the expression of their feelings should take. I mean, I'm really
> sort of miffed when people who are getting married have a big, expensive
> wedding and then instruct guests to give them cash instead of presents.
>
> But maybe that's just me.
>
> Crabby,
> Martha
/Well, I don't think we're all that far apart with this and I agree with you
/about the wedding request. It's tacky as hell to request money. More /often
than not I find myself writing a check as a gift anyway. Some of our
/friends that have gotten married have lived together for years. Thinking up
/a gift for them is just impossible. I'm not real creative in that way.
/However, if the invitation requested cash in lieu of gifts, I'd probably run
/out and buy them a toaster they would have to return.
Michael
Isnt it commonplace in Italian weddings to put cash in the bride's thingamajig?
Or is the Godfather an exaggeration?
Barbara
ChevreTroi
Don't you think it's the asking...not the giving...that is the problem?
I think all of us, as good-hearted beings want to do the right thing. But
asking for something seems so..well gauche. If I had a close neighbor that died
as this woman did, I'd want it to be my idea to give to the children. I'd
probably send flowers AND a cash gift to the children (at a later date)
Chev.
In article <19990904110545...@ng-fc1.aol.com>,
maggi...@aol.comSPAMBLOC (Maggie) writes:
>***I don't know a whole lot about this family so perhaps I'm speaking out of
>turn, but while I am also a little put off by the request for money on behalf
>of the children, I can certainly see how the mother's death would adversely
>impact the family financially. A nanny/cleaner/car service/gardner may well
>have to be hired, as well as a secretary/bookkeeper/manager for the family
>business. In addition, the woman may have been planning to return to the
>outside workforce once her children were older, in college, etc. to help pay
>for their educations. None of this explains why she didn't have life
>insurance, but it might explain why the father didn't care for the idea of
>thousands of dollars being spent on floral arrangements that he felt could be
>put to better use by replacing the income the mother would have brought in
>later, or will have to be spent, sooner.
>
>
ChevreTrois
Sharonpo
>ChevreTroi wrote:
>>
>> Re: the exchange below:
>>
>> Don't you think it's the asking...not the giving...that is the problem?
>> I think all of us, as good-hearted beings want to do the right thing. But
>> asking for something seems so..well gauche. If I had a close neighbor that
>died
>> as this woman did, I'd want it to be my idea to give to the children. I'd
>> probably send flowers AND a cash gift to the children (at a later date)
>>
>
>Yes. That's the point I was trying to make that got lost somewhere.
>
>Martha
>
No, that was not your point. Your point was to bash a devastated family's
request that some good come out of a senseless crime.
Martha
>
> after living through two royal weddings this summer..
> from now on..i will go for the cash gift...
>
> the department store registries are convenient..
> but they make mistakes..deliver the wrong thing..
> and when the couple wants to return a duplicate gift..
> one of the big stores around here..
> will only give them a store credit..
>
> i am playing a subliminal ~elope tape~ for my daughter
> each evening while she is sleeping...
> weddings are the biggest rip off..the prices are outrageous..
> and i blame that bitc* martha stewart for it all
>
> nicki
Here's how long ago *I* got married: my father offered my husband and
me $2000 to forget the wedding and elope. That's what he figured he was
spending on it--and it was a big wedding!
Martha
Debby
Everyone's traditions are different and I mostly just give money, because that is
what people really want:) Debby S.<sarg...@injersey.com>
Martha
>
> I found it interesting the last time I actually shopped for a wedding gift.
> I went to the department store and the couple was registered for expensive
> collectibles. Limoge, Waterford etc. Not a glass or plate on the list.
>
> Michael <- wrote them a check
Yeah, well. Remember how this started? The family of that murdered mom
was asking for donations to the children's education fund instead of
flowers, and it rubbed me the wrong way? Now I learn that both kids
were enrolled at Newtown Friends School. Chelsea Clinton attended
Sidwell Friends in DC, and remember all the uproar about how expensive
it was? No wonder the family wants money!
Martha
Sharonpo
>Yeah, well. Remember how this started? The family of that murdered mom
>was asking for donations to the children's education fund instead of
>flowers, and it rubbed me the wrong way? Now I learn that both kids
>were enrolled at Newtown Friends School. Chelsea Clinton attended
>Sidwell Friends in DC, and remember all the uproar about how expensive
>it was? No wonder the family wants money!
>
>Martha
>
So, you sent flowers instead?
Maggie
>Yeah, well. Remember how this started? The family of that murdered mom
>was asking for donations to the children's education fund instead of
>flowers, and it rubbed me the wrong way? Now I learn that both kids
>were enrolled at Newtown Friends School. Chelsea Clinton attended
>Sidwell Friends in DC, and remember all the uproar about how expensive
>it was? No wonder the family wants money!
***Are you under the impression that there is an admission fee for the funeral
or that anyone is under an obligation to contribute to this family? Do you
normally choose to concern yourself with the educational decisions of
strangers? When you do choose to make contributions such as the one requested
in this case, do you follow the family around to make sure they are buying
round steak rather than tenderloin, or are wearing clothes from Kathy Lee's
K-Mart collection rather than Nordstoms? IOW, what's it to you?
(If it makes you feel any better, the Quaker school in my town is among the
lower-priced private schools in the area.)
Maggie
>>Yeah, well. Remember how this started? The family of that murdered mom
>>was asking for donations to the children's education fund instead of
>>flowers, and it rubbed me the wrong way? Now I learn that both kids
>>were enrolled at Newtown Friends School. Chelsea Clinton attended
>>Sidwell Friends in DC, and remember all the uproar about how expensive
>>it was? No wonder the family wants money!
>>
>>
>
sharonpo said:
>So, you sent flowers instead?
***LOL
Sharonpo
>***Are you under the impression that there is an admission fee for the
>funeral
>or that anyone is under an obligation to contribute to this family? Do you
>normally choose to concern yourself with the educational decisions of
>strangers? When you do choose to make contributions such as the one
>requested
>in this case, do you follow the family around to make sure they are buying
>round steak rather than tenderloin, or are wearing clothes from Kathy Lee's
>K-Mart collection rather than Nordstoms? IOW, what's it to you?
>
>(If it makes you feel any better, the Quaker school in my town is among the
>lower-priced private schools in the area.)
>
>
>Maggie
>
Thank you, Maggie...
Joe1orbit
>Hi,
>Well, I have a few minutes to say something about these articles.
>Interesting,
>but, I get awfully tired of stereotypes. Especially dangerous and
>irresponsible ones. There was similar 'reporting' on what happened in that
>high
>school in Oregon. If anyone's interested, there's a marvelous website called
>_SlashDot: News for Nerds. Stuff That Matters._with comments by high school
>students on why they think what happened occurred.. I think the following
>three articles tell a much more complete story and one not many people want
>to
>hear. "Voices from the Hellmouth" by Jon Katz can be found at
>http://209.207.224.40/articles/99/04/25/1438249.shtml "Why Kids Kill" at
>http://209.207.224.40/articles/99/0422/2136230.shtml
>and More Voices from the Hellmouth at
>http://209.207.224.40/features/99/04/27/0310247.shtml
Hello,
Children kill in response to the cycle of personal BRUTALIZATION, be it
mental, sexual, physical, or intellectual, that they are subjected to, in as
cycle of violence that society BEGINS against them.
>Guess what? <shock, shock>I have a copy of Mein Kampf in my house because I
>wanted to figure out what it was about a bizarre looking, unappealing man
>that
>could possibly have convinced anyone to do ANYTHING. I'd seen him on video
>clip, heard that he'd been perceived as 'charismatic' and simply couldn't
>believe it! Thought I might find out something by reading what he'd written.
>
>In fact he was a crafty man and some of what's in that book is not unused by
>today's societal players, imo. For example, the suggestion that certain
>books
>in someone's possession automatically suggest something perverted and 'unfit'
>about the owner. ; /
Your point is a valid one.
> I have some violent video games--I only take them out
>when I'm pmsing, if then. Or does that make me a dangerous psychopath on a
>'time schedule'? Truth is, it's cathartic and doesn't hurt anyone. I have a
>black trench coat because (drum roll, please...) it's -flattering- for Pete's
>sake, and although no one has actually told me I have a twisted smile, I do
>notice I feel a certain glee when I listen to Joni Mitchell's song of the
>same
>name. <g>
There are many different reasons that people watch or listen to violent
media, or engage in violent "games", be it video games, boxing, or even
football. Most of those reasons have to do with cathartically transferring
their pent-up rage and hate. The fact that in most cases the degree of rage &
hate is not powerful enough to cause a serious danger of the person committing
a violent act of murder, doesn't change this fact.
>I suppose if someone came into my house they could just as easily take a look
>at my book shelves (ignore the Rollo May, Erich Fromm, Alice Miller and
>others,
>of course) and wonder why I have almost all of Jack Olsen's books, many books
>on psychopathology and god knows how many serial murder novels! Wow, I
>guess
>it's a perfect set up to frame me because all the neighbors are sure to say
>"who knew? she seemed so nice... but 'those people' ALL pretend to be nice."
>
><sigh> Talk about instilling fear in >people....!!!!
Your diseased society has no interest in Truth, or in facing up to it's guilt
and responsibility in having created all of the predators who justifiably stalk
their world.
>Josephine, no longer,
If I EVER decide you have adopted a versiopn of my Screen Name out of a
desire to impersonate or mock me, you will be subject to Permanent Usenet
Excommunication. So far, I see no reason to conclude that, so I will take your
chosen Screen Name as a sign of your respect for me.
>-- because it was never my intention to make fun of anyone or agree or
>disagree
>with anyone, I just wanted to be a contender! <in my best Marlon Brando <g>
>Is
>that so wronnnnnnnnnnggggg?
>
>ps.. I thought Thomas Harris wrote a brilliant book--Hannibal--I read it the
>day it came out in the local bookstore but now I know enough not to carry it
>around with me when I go to the grocery store or anywhere I might frighten
>someone. Yeah right.... Incidentally, Harris' insights into evil and how
>aspects of society (read human nature) 'support' it, seemed absolutely right
>to
>me.
I just finished reading Hannibal a couple of months ago, and absolutely agree
that it's insightful book that goes FAR beyond just being a 'fictional
gore/serial killer' book, when you look at it from a real life,
socio-philosophical context and commentary on the state of human nature and
societal structure.
Take care, JOE
>>From: joe1...@aol.com (Joe1orbit)
>>Date: Thu, 02 September 1999 05:46 AM EDT
>>Message-id: <19990902054637...@ng-fg1.aol.com>
>
>joe1orbit wrote:
>
>>
>>Hello,
>>
>> No time to offer commentary, but here are several interesting new articles
>>on
>>Donald Anthony Traub, the young serial sniper who shot to death a gal as she
>>exited a supermarket on Wednesday, in a totally random attack. Some
>>interesting
>>details on his demeanor, and it's GREAT to hear that Donald is a fan of
>>Thomas
>>Harris and had his new Hannibal book with him, as well as TICKETS to the
>>Summer
>>of Sam movie, when cops arrested him.
>>
>> Take care, JOE
>>
>> The following three news articles all appear courtesy of the 9/2/99 online
>>edition of The Philadelphia Daily News newspaper:
>>
>>Friends claim: Slay suspect lived in twisted fantasy world
>>
>>by Myung Oak Kim
>>and April Adamson
>>Daily News Staff Writers
>>
>> Alone in his room for days at a time, the scrawny teen retreated into a
>>fantasy world of violent video games and Dungeons and Dragons.
>>
>>Donald Anthony Traub, known to family and friends as Donny, preferred his
>>computer screen to playing sports with neighborhood boys. The only time he
>>ventured out was to shoot fake guns at other kids in the woods.
>>
>>He was a middle-school honor student, one of his former classmates and
>>neighbors recalled yesterday. But his source of pride was in the mall
>arcade,
>>where he could beat anyone at Street Fighter II, a complex game that
>involves
>>dueling against an imaginary opponent.
>>
>>When he played Street Fighter and other video games, friends were struck by
>>his
>>sinister smile.
>>
>>It was the same smile Traub, 23, gave reporters after he was arrested
>Tuesday
>>and charged with killing a woman outside a Warminster grocery store.
>>
>>"I recognized it in a heartbeat," said Patrick Cohen, 21, a childhood friend
>>and former neighbor of Traub who last saw him a few years ago at the Willow
>>Grove Park mall arcade where they went as middle- schoolers. "It was that
>>same
>>twisted smile."
>>
>>As police yesterday tried to determine a motive for the bizarre shooting of
>>Ivyland mother-of-two Karen Lee Hordis, 42, they acknowledged that they may
>>never know what spurred the violent act.
>>
>>But psychologists raised the possibility that something triggered Traub to
>>act
>>out his fantasy world.
>>
>>"He may have felt he was part of the game when he left the house," said Los
>>Angeles psychologist Robert Butterworth. "Some deviants are triggered by
>>these
>>things. Maybe he got so into the games he had a delusion he was in the
>game."
>>
>>Sources say that since his arrest Tuesday, Traub is considered the "prime
>and
>>only suspect" in two similar shootings last year in Warminster and Horsham.
>>
>>Donna Holbrook, whose mother lived near Traub's father on Date Street in
>>Warminster, was shot in the face and neck Aug. 19 as she got out of her car
>>to
>>go to work in Horsham. On Aug. 24, Shawn Vanorder was shot in the back and
>>leg
>>as he rode his bicycle to work on Street Road in Warminster.
>>
>>Hordis was shot five times Tuesday morning as she loaded groceries into the
>>trunk of her white Ford Taurus at the Giant supermarket near Street and York
>>roads in Warminster.
>>
>>She died instantly of wounds to her head, shoulder, back and chest from
>>Traub's
>>.38-caliber snubnose revolver, police said.
>>
>>In Traub's Willow Grove boarding house yesterday, a stockpile of violent
>>movies
>>and books offered a glimpse into the mind of the alleged killer.
>>
>>Sources say investigators whosearched Traub's $65-a-week apartment found two
>>dozen videotapes of violent movies, and two dozen books, including "Mein
>>Kampf"
>>by Adolf Hitler.
>>
>>Police found a copy of "Hannibal," a book about fictional serial killer
>>Hannibal Lechter, and several ticket stubs for the movie "Summer of Sam,"
>>about
>>a 1970s serial killer in New York.
>>
>>They also found a badge and hat from Wells Fargo in Valley Forge, where
>Traub
>>was once a security guard.
>>
>>Hordis' murder "hits home like a silver bullet because this can be anybody,"
>>said Bucks County District Attorney Alan Rubenstein. "The most frightening
>>killings are those where there is no apparent motive. This victim had no
>>common
>>threads to the other victims."
>>
>>When police stopped Traub's red Oldsmobile shortly after the shooting, he
>>told
>>them: "I am the one you want. I did it." Then, in court, he told reporters:
>>"I
>>didn't shoot anyone. I just carried a gun."
>>
>>Traub, 23, is a William Tennent High School dropout who wore combat boots
>and
>>trenchcoats, kept to himself and frequently exploded in fits of rage,
>>neighbors
>>said.
>>
>>Traub, who had no prior criminal record, was denied bail and detained at the
>>Bucks County prison.
>>---------------------------------------------------------
>>Experts: Random
>>
>>killings feared most
>>Despite unlikely odds, panic prevails after acts of violence
>>
>>by Scott Flander
>>Daily News Staff Writer
>>
>> Random acts of violence like the supermarket shooting in Warminster really
>>shouldn't make us feel vulnerable.
>>
>>After all, the odds of something like that happening to us are
>infinitesimal.
>>When was the last time somebody got shot by a stranger while loading
>>groceries
>>into a car? It may never happen again.
>>
>>Somehow, though, it doesn't feel that way.
>>
>>When there's a random, violent act, for many people it doesn't matter that
>it
>>was a million-to-one chance.
>>
>>The odds don't matter. The statistics don't matter. Emotion rules, not
>>reason.
>>
>>"When a horrible event like this occurs, our immediate reaction is panic -
>>and
>>it is precisely at this point that we need our rational side to kick in,"
>>says
>>Barry Glassner, author of "The Culture of Fear."
>>
>>And yet for many people, the rational side doesn't kick in at all. Fear
>takes
>>over.
>>
>>One reason, says psychologist Judy Beck, is that we start out with an
>>unrealistic view of the world - the belief that we're safe all the time.
>>
>>"Most of us go around with a myth that we're pretty invulnerable - that
>>things
>>like car accidents and crime aren't going to happen to us," says Beck,
>>director
>>of the Beck Institute for Cognitive Therapy in Bala Cynwyd. "When something
>>like this happens, we completely flip to thinking we're completely
>>vulnerable."
>>
>>In other words, we go from an unrealistic sense of security to an
>unrealistic
>>sense of danger. We're not grounded in reality from the start.
>>
>>One reason, says Beck, is that we're brought up to believe that if we play
>it
>>smart, we'll be OK.
>>
>>"A lot of people have the notion that if they lead good lives, good things
>>should happen to them," says Beck.
>>
>>We often say that the victim of random violence was simply in the wrong
>place
>>at the wrong time.
>>
>>But the problem, says criminal-justice professor Jack Greene, is that we
>>really
>>don't know where the right place is.
>>
>>You know you can cut your risk, for example, by not using ATMs at night, he
>>says. But how can you assess the risk of loading groceries into you car in a
>>suburban supermarket parking lot?
>>
>>"All of a sudden you put this overlay of randomness," on your risk
>>assessment,
>>says Greene, a researcher at Temple University. "We have no way as a society
>>to
>>predict these things. As much as people think they have control over their
>>lives, there's still this random card out there, and it inspires fear in
>>people."
>>
>>Our sense of the social order, and our belief that we can control it,
>>"dissolves in an instant when something like this happens," says Greene. "It
>>throws us all back together in our primal vulnerability."
>>
>>When we hear about random violence, and somehow think it could happen to us,
>>we're playing out a worst-case scenario - something we're taught to do since
>>childhood, says Arthur Freeman, chairman of the psychology department at the
>>Philadelphia College of Osteopathic Medicine.
>>
>>"We train our kids for a life of what-ifs," says Freeman. We try to tell
>them
>>how to deal with all the things that could go wrong, "to prepare them for
>the
>>crises in their lives."
>>
>>But that can backfire by causing us to worry too much.
>>
>>Author Glassner says that one way to overcome panic at a random crime is to
>>ask
>>yourself, "Is this an isolated incident or a trend?"
>>
>>If you realize it really is isolated, you may be able to handle it better.
>He
>>gives this advice as well:
>>
>>"Don't let yourself become obsessed with the event - don't watch the news
>for
>>hours on end, and don't occupy you conversations at the water cooler for
>days
>>on end with this, because that's what perpetuates the fears."
>>
>>Although dwelling on a random crime can intensify your fears, you shouldn't
>>pretend your fears don't exist.
>>
>>Beck suggests setting time aside to talk it out with friends or family
>>members,
>>"so thoughts don't fester beneath the surface."
>>--------------------------------------------------------------
>>Some killers can't say why they did it
>>
>>"There was no reason for it. I don't know why I did it."
>>
>>- Double murderer Caleb Fairley.
>>
>>by Theresa Conroy
>>Daily News Staff Writer
>>
>> For no reason, Caleb Fairley killed Lisa Marie Manderach, 29, and her
>>19-month-old daughter, Devon, in 1996.
>>
>>For no reason.
>>
>>Fairley was sentenced to two life terms in prison for the first-degree
>>murders
>>inside his mother's Collegeville, Montgomery County, store.
>>
>>The judge described him as "evil." The prosecutor said Fairley aroused
>>society's biggest fear:
>>
>>"What do people fear most? Random violence," the Montgomery County
>prosecutor
>>said. "That is what makes this case so gut-wrenching. God protect us from
>the
>>Caleb Fairleys of the world."
>>
>>Some of Philadelphia's most memorable murders in the last 10 years have been
>>inexplicable, random acts of violence.
>>
>>They involved strangers and lacked any motive. Most have been committed by
>>someone who was mentally ill.
>>
>>Here are a few of the random murders that have chilled the Philadelphia area
>>during the last 10 years:
>>
>> Rose Knight was stabbed to death outside her South Philadelphia home Aug.
>>20,
>>allegedly by an 11-year-old girl. The girl just ran up to Knight and pushed
>a
>>butcher knife through her chest, police allege. Police said the girl "has
>the
>>mind of a 5-year-old."
>>
>> In June 1997, Drue Cade, 69, ran into a Southwest Philadelphia Acme
>yelling,
>>"I'm not going to take it anymore." He opened fire, killing Steven B.
>>Jeffrey,
>>and wounding three others. Then he shot himself to death.
>>
>> In 1996, Fairley randomly selected Manderach and her daughter from
>customers
>>patronizing his family's childrens' clothing store in Collegeville. He
>>strangled them both and dumped their bodies.
>>
>> Dr. Jean-Claude Pierre Hill walked onto the Benjamin Franklin Parkway in
>>1994
>>and began shooting. He killed Peter Foy and wounded two of Foy's coworkers.
>>Hill was sentenced to life in prison.
>>
>> In 1991, Mark Linden and two buddies were standing on the corner of Newkirk
>>and Thompson streets in North Philadelphia, arguing about who would shoot
>>into
>>a crowd of about 20 children. "I've got this one," Linden said. He killed
>>Amin
>>Montgomery, 15. Linden was convicted of voluntary manslaughter.
>>
>> Voices told Benjamin Frazier to kill someone in 1990. Frazier chose a
>>door-to-door cable TV salesman, James Wayock. Frazier was found guilty but
>>mentally ill.
>>*************************************
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>>on
>>my Mailing List, please visit:
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>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
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Martha
<snip>
>
> Actually no, I butted into this thread way late. Refresh me please.
> Thanks.
>
> Michael <- mail server is down
Oh. Well, in Bucks County PA there've been some seemingly random
shootins in the last few months, and a week or so ago a woman was shot
to death as she loaded groceries into her car. She was shot in the back
and then, as she lay dying, the guy stood over her and fired four more
shots. She was by all accounts a very nice woman and the mother of two
young boys. A horrible, horrible crime, and a heartbreaking story.
Anyway, I noticed that in the funeral story it said that in lieu of
flowers the family was requesting donations to the boys' education
funds. Being the bitch that I am, I said that that rubbed me the wrong
way. There was no mention that the mother had a job; I didn't
understand why her death suddenly made the education fund an issue. I
was told that the mother did work, in a home business with the father,
so that did make a difference to me, but that fact (if it is one) still
has not been mentioned in the news articles--nor has what the father
does for a living.
Predictably, people were shocked that I could begrudge this mourning
family comfort, that flowers are a waste of money and why not give money
for something that is really meaningful, blah blah blah. Chev got it
that what I was objecting to was the asking, not the idea of
contributing to the kids' fund. Then I find out that these boys are
students at Newtown Friends School, which is *very* expensive. Maggie
informs me that Quaker schools are cheap where she lives, but here in PA
that's not the case. I'll ask my sister-in-law what she pays for NFS if
anyone cares. So that's the deal.
I'm really, really sorry for the family; I can't imagine the heartbreak.
I also can't imagine thinking, within one day of losing my spouse, of
asking strangers to give me money so I can continue to send my children
to private school. But that's just me, I guess. A bitch to the end.
Martha
Debby
expensive that to cut out the flower car they ask for something else in lieu
of. Usually in planning a funeral the spouse contributes but the family
members realize that the spouce is in too much grief to make good finantial
decisions. Other family members will do this for him or her. You would not
ask for money. Your family would. Sometimes the Jewish people do it best
really, you get a fruit basket or candy and then there is no flower car,
just a houseful of food!!! Debby S.<sarg...@injersey.com>
PattyC4303
Martha
Nikki said:
amen!!!
NOW Nikki,
And we were all getting along so well...
PattyC
-Kat-
<snip excellent recap>
>
> I'm really, really sorry for the family; I can't imagine the heartbreak.
> I also can't imagine thinking, within one day of losing my spouse, of
> asking strangers to give me money so I can continue to send my children
>
> Martha
At first I agreed with Martha, but then realized I did see what may have
motivated the request. Trying to cope with the murder will be horrible
for the kids; if I were in such a situation I'd try damned hard keep as
much as I could "normal". Changing schools is usually difficult; doing so
under these circumstances would be one more change with which these kids
would have to deal.
--
-Kat-
...making the best of what's around...
Martha
Yabbut... how does the mother's death make it impossible to continue
with the kids' current placement? Someone who knows the family posted
that the parents had a business together at home, but I have not been
able to confirm this in the news stories. If it is a legitimate
business, there would be insurance on the mother's life (and even if it
isn't, many of us mothers are insured anyway); if it's some kind of
cottage industry, I doubt that she was making enough of a financial
contribution to make a difference. The fact that the home business was
not mentioned in any of the stories (and I've read them all, in two
daily papers, as well as the funeral notices) tells me that it was not
the main source of income. If this family were to be plunged into
insolvency when the mother was killed, I think that would have been
mentioned at least once. How come the mother's death makes such a
difference in their finances?
Further, the Quaker schools around here do offer scholarships. I am
sure that the school would not boot these kids just because they could
no longer pay, especially if the reason they could no longer pay was
related to their mother's hideous murder. I think it would be much more
appropriate, in fact, for the family to approach the head of the school
to ask for help than to broadcast an appeal to strangers.
And I agree--as if it's necessary to say, but around here it is--that it
would be best for the boys to be able to continue their lives as
normally as possible after this horrible, traumatic event and loss of
the greatest magnitude.
Martha
Sharonpo
>contribution to make a difference.
[Translation: Hello. My name is Mouthra Moochcake, and I don't think anyone but
me should get any handouts.]
Mr. Sweetness & Light
Sharonpo <shar...@aol.com.nix> wrote in message
news:19990907193700...@ng-ft1.aol.com...
{Translation: Sharonpo bitch-slaps another Orbiteer}
Mr. Sweetness & Light
I have missed all the logic here. How does a request to send money to a
college fund for the children *instead of flowers to the funeral* get
twisted into this argument?
>Further, the Quaker schools around here do offer scholarships. I am
>sure that the school would not boot these kids just because they could
>no longer pay, especially if the reason they could no longer pay was
>related to their mother's hideous murder. I think it would be much more
>appropriate, in fact, for the family to approach the head of the school
>to ask for help than to broadcast an appeal to strangers.
Have you considered that maybe it's not the widower coming up with the
request and just possibly concerned relatives?
>And I agree--as if it's necessary to say, but around here it is--that it
>would be best for the boys to be able to continue their lives as
>normally as possible after this horrible, traumatic event and loss of
>the greatest magnitude.
Glad to see some concern after that tasteless bit of speculation. How much
are you contributing?
--
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Here's your chance to personally thank
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Cliff or Linda Griffith
> >
> > I appreciate department store registries, too, but mostly because where
> > I come from it's sort of scandalous for the bride to need silverware or
> > china--she's supposed to have inherited that--
Older brides, huh? "Back in my day", most of the people in line to
bequeath silverware or china were still using theirs.
Linda
Martha
Well, you figure every bride would have two grandmothers, and the
bride's mother would have had two grandmothers... unless mammoth-size
families were involved, there should have been family silver *somewhere*
there. Not to mention the groom's portion.
Martha, pretty damn old