R.I.P. JENNY CHANG, 15
w00...@my-dejanews.com
http://www.ohio.com:80/bj/news/ohio/docs/017329.htm
**** The entire Cleveland, Ohio community has been stunned this week by the
brutal slaying of Jenny Chang, 15, by a stalker who shot this high school
freshman girl as she walked to school, then stood over her and fired more
bullets into her.
The obsessed stalker, Scott Strothers, 21, had been harrassing the entire
Chang family, originally from Shanghai, China, for several months--he had
previously tried to firebomb the family garage, smashed windows, poured glue
in the gas tank of the family car, and made numerous harrassing phone calls
to the home. There were also reports he sent Internet messages.
Stalker Strothers' contact with the Chang family began when he meet one of
the Chang boys when they both went to school at Ohio State Univeristy.
According to an article in today's Cleveland Plain Dealer, Strothers resented
the Chang boy's academic achievement. Strothers dropped out of college. The
PD also reports that once he got to know the Changs, he felt the family
"hadn't suffered enough." So he planned to murder this entire family of
successful Chinese immigrants (Mr. Chang is a mathematic professor at
Cleveland State University.)
Strothers also developed an obsession with Chang's younger sister, who, much
younger than Strothers, rebuffed his advances. Earlier this week, Scott
Strothers stalked and gunned down Penny Chang, 15, a high school freshman as
she walked to school and her classmates screamed. The story has been page one
in Cleveland this week. Last night there was a ceremony at the murder site
for Penny Chang. Her father was interviewed this week, crying and angrily
questioning why there were no "human rights for victims" and why his family's
harrassment continued after he reported it.
The crime occurred right in front of a police station, and Strothers was
immediately apprehended. His harrassment of the Chang family is on police
record. Yesterday, however, authorities said that Strothers will not face the
death penalty for killing Penny Chang because he did not commit a capital
offense--in Ohio that means he would have to kill at least TWO people, a
police officer, or have been committing a felony at the time of the murder,
in order to face the death penalty. So he's looking at life, possibly....
based on our local laws.
Posted at
4:40 a.m. EST
Friday, March 19, 1999
The Ohio Directory
Search for Ohio-based
Web Sites
Suspect indicted in sidewalk slaying of 15-year-old girl
CLEVELAND (AP) -- A man has been indicted in the sidewalk shooting
death of the 15-year-old girl who her family says had spurned his advances.
Scott Strothers, 21, was indicted Thursday on charges of aggravated murder
and carrying a concealed weapon in Tuesday's slaying of Penny Chang, 15,
both of suburban Shaker Heights.
Cuyahoga County Prosecutor William Mason said his office would seek a
life prison term if Strothers is convicted.
The suspect's father, Kenneth Strothers, said police seized one item when
they searched his Cleveland house: an opened box of earplugs similar to the
ones his son was wearing at the time of the shooting.
``That's brilliant planning, isn't it?'' Kenneth Strothers told The Plain
Dealer in an interview published today. ``He wore earplugs. It's like him to
think of something like that.''
The victim was killed while walking to school near Shaker Heights city hall
and the police department. Strothers was arrested within minutes near the
scene.
Kenneth Strothers said his son and the victim's older brother, Sean, lived
together as freshmen in a dorm at Ohio State University, which they both
attended on scholarship. Stothers later dropped out.
Last year, Kenneth Strothers said, his son told him that he wanted to kill the
Chang family and then kill himself. The father said he alerted Scott's doctors
and Shaker Heights police.
He said Scott was shy around girls -- he had a ``female phobia,'' his father
said -- and never had a girlfriend.
discusion of race harrassment/meruder at:
http://forums.cleveland.com/forums/get/watercooler.html
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
Walter Lee
My sympathy to the Chang family.
Walter lee.
w00...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
>
> http://www.ohio.com:80/bj/news/ohio/docs/017329.htm
>
> **** The entire Cleveland, Ohio community has been stunned this week by
> the brutal slaying of Jenny Chang, 15, by a stalker who shot this igh school
> freshman girl as she walked to school, then stood over her and fired more
> bullets into her.
>
> The obsessed stalker, Scott Strothers, 21, had been harrassing the entire
> Chang family, originally from Shanghai, China, for several months--he had
> previously tried to firebomb the family garage, smashed windows, poured glue
> in the gas tank of the family car, and made numerous harrassing phone calls
> to the home. There were also reports he sent Internet messages.
>
> Stalker Strothers' contact with the Chang family began when he meet one of
> the Chang boys when they both went to school at Ohio State Univeristy.
> According to an article in today's Cleveland Plain Dealer, Strothers resented
> the Chang boy's academic achievement. Strothers dropped out of college. The
> PD also reports that once he got to know the Changs, he felt the family
> "hadn't suffered enough." So he planned to murder this entire family of
> successful Chinese immigrants (Mr. Chang is a mathematic professor at
> Cleveland State University.)
>
> Strothers also developed an obsession with Chang's younger sister, who, much
> younger than Strothers, rebuffed his advances. Earlier this week, Scott
> Strothers stalked and gunned down Penny Chang, 15, a high school freshman as
> she walked to school and her classmates screamed. The story has been page one
> in Cleveland this week. Last night there was a ceremony at the murder site
> for Penny Chang. Her father was interviewed this week, crying and angrily
> questioning why there were no "human rights for victims" and why his family's
> harrassment continued after he reported it.
>
I wonder if the Changs or the local police new that
Mr. Strothers also had access to handguns?
> The crime occurred right in front of a police station, and Strothers was
> immediately apprehended. His harrassment of the Chang family is on police
> record. Yesterday, however, authorities said that Strothers will not face the
> death penalty for killing Penny Chang because he did not commit a capital
> offense--in Ohio that means he would have to kill at least TWO people, a
> police officer, or have been committing a felony at the time of the murder,
> in order to face the death penalty. So he's looking at life, possibly....
> based on our local laws.
>
However, Mr. Scott Struthers also may faces additional
Federal Hate Crime Charges as well. It sounds as if
there is enough evidence to indicated this - previous
email/correspondence from Mr. Strothers would be
adequate proof considering the circumstances.
Mr. Scott Struthers' most probable defense will be one
of insanity....However, he will probably face
multiple charges and a request for consecutive prison terms.
Murdering kids on their way to school is a matter
of public safety ...
> Posted at
> 4:40 a.m. EST
> Friday, March 19, 1999
>
> The Ohio Directory
> Search for Ohio-based
> Web Sites
>
> Suspect indicted in sidewalk slaying of 15-year-old girl
>
> CLEVELAND (AP) -- A man has been indicted in the sidewalk shooting
> death of the 15-year-old girl who her family says had spurned his advances.
>
> Scott Strothers, 21, was indicted Thursday on charges of aggravated murder
> and carrying a concealed weapon in Tuesday's slaying of Penny Chang, 15,
> both of suburban Shaker Heights.
>
> Cuyahoga County Prosecutor William Mason said his office would seek a
> life prison term if Strothers is convicted.
>
Homocidal psychopaths with guns do endanger public safety.
> The suspect's father, Kenneth Strothers, said police seized one item when
> they searched his Cleveland house: an opened box of earplugs similar to the
> ones his son was wearing at the time of the shooting.
>
> ``That's brilliant planning, isn't it?'' Kenneth Strothers told The Plain
> Dealer in an interview published today. ``He wore earplugs. It's like him to
> think of something like that.''
>
> The victim was killed while walking to school near Shaker Heights city hall
> and the police department. Strothers was arrested within minutes near the
> scene.
>
> Kenneth Strothers said his son and the victim's older brother, Sean, lived
> together as freshmen in a dorm at Ohio State University, which they both
> attended on scholarship. Stothers later dropped out.
>
I suppose that Scott Strothers is the one who dropped out of
the University?
> Last year, Kenneth Strothers said, his son told him that he wanted to kill the
> Chang family and then kill himself. The father said he alerted Scott's doctors
> and Shaker Heights police.
It sounds like his father is hinting that
Scott Strothers also was under some psychotherapy?
Did the firearm belong to Scott Strothers or did Scott
illegal procured the firearm?
retaliator
that punk's head!
jt
w00...@my-dejanews.com wrote in message
<7ctrc6$1o8$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>...
>
>
>http://www.ohio.com:80/bj/news/ohio/docs/017329.htm
>
>**** The entire Cleveland, Ohio community has been stunned this week by the
>brutal slaying of Jenny Chang, 15, by a stalker who shot this high school
>The crime occurred right in front of a police station, and Strothers was
>immediately apprehended. His harrassment of the Chang family is on police
>record. Yesterday, however, authorities said that Strothers will not face
the
>death penalty for killing Penny Chang because he did not commit a capital
>offense--in Ohio that means he would have to kill at least TWO people, a
>police officer, or have been committing a felony at the time of the murder,
>in order to face the death penalty. So he's looking at life, possibly....
>based on our local laws.
>
>
> Posted at
> 4:40 a.m. EST
> Friday, March 19, 1999
>
>
>The Ohio Directory
>Search for Ohio-based
>Web Sites
>
>
>Suspect indicted in sidewalk slaying of 15-year-old girl
>
>CLEVELAND (AP) -- A man has been indicted in the sidewalk shooting
>death of the 15-year-old girl who her family says had spurned his advances.
>
>Scott Strothers, 21, was indicted Thursday on charges of aggravated murder
>and carrying a concealed weapon in Tuesday's slaying of Penny Chang, 15,
>both of suburban Shaker Heights.
>
>Cuyahoga County Prosecutor William Mason said his office would seek a
>life prison term if Strothers is convicted.
>
>The suspect's father, Kenneth Strothers, said police seized one item when
>they searched his Cleveland house: an opened box of earplugs similar to the
>ones his son was wearing at the time of the shooting.
>
>``That's brilliant planning, isn't it?'' Kenneth Strothers told The Plain
>Dealer in an interview published today. ``He wore earplugs. It's like him
to
>think of something like that.''
>
>The victim was killed while walking to school near Shaker Heights city hall
>and the police department. Strothers was arrested within minutes near the
> scene.
>
>Kenneth Strothers said his son and the victim's older brother, Sean, lived
>together as freshmen in a dorm at Ohio State University, which they both
>attended on scholarship. Stothers later dropped out.
>
>Last year, Kenneth Strothers said, his son told him that he wanted to kill
the
>Chang family and then kill himself. The father said he alerted Scott's
doctors
>and Shaker Heights police.
>
Check
moo shu guy wrote in message <7cuouv$4hi$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>...
>victim's name corrected in title.
>
>a totally sick fuck. another example that hating asian males
>and "loving" asian females is not mutually exclusive.
Huh?
The same type of murder happened recently here (Seattle) with an obsessive
male (white) murdering the whole friggin family (white as well).
Any words of wisdom to characterize that? Or does having an asian there
make for an easier intellectual assessment?
Perhaps males by their nature are at odds with each other regardless of
race, and the rather universal societal ideas granting some sort of
assumed male control over women (which asian culture is no stranger to)
lays the foundation for attacks like these regardless of race.
For the rest to play out you just need fraying fringe material, again
regardless of race.
Tom Y
moo shu guy
a totally sick fuck. another example that hating asian males
and "loving" asian females is not mutually exclusive.
msg
> > According to an article in today's Cleveland Plain Dealer, Strothers
resented
> > the Chang boy's academic achievement. Strothers dropped out of college. The
> > PD also reports that once he got to know the Changs, he felt the family
> > "hadn't suffered enough." So he planned to murder this entire family of
> > successful Chinese immigrants (Mr. Chang is a mathematic professor at
> > Cleveland State University.)
> > Strothers also developed an obsession with Chang's younger sister, who, much
> > younger than Strothers, rebuffed his advances. Earlier this week, Scott
> > Strothers stalked and gunned down Penny Chang, 15, a high school freshman as
> > she walked to school and her classmates screamed. The story has been page
one
> > in Cleveland this week. Last night there was a ceremony at the murder site
> > for Penny Chang. Her father was interviewed this week, crying and angrily
> > questioning why there were no "human rights for victims" and why his
family's
> > harrassment continued after he reported it.
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
w00...@my-dejanews.com
(immigrants from Shanghai, China) was harrassed for several months in a
suburb of Cleveland, Ohio by Scott Strothers, 21, who tried to burn their
garage, poured glue in the gas tank of the family car, made harrassing phone
calls, etc. On Tuesday, the youngest daughter, Penny, was stalked by
Strothers. He gunned the high school freshman down in a cross walk as the
she was walking to school--so premeditated that he wore earplugs as he hunted
her. Click here for AP story on the killing:
http://www.ohio.com/bj/news/ohio/docs/017329.htm
What causes such hate? I wish this creep would get the death sentence.
Tonight there was a candlelight ceremony in Penny's memory, attended by her
parents and many white, black, and Asian people including many of Penny's
young classmates and professor Chang's college students--many calling for
legal reform/protection from stalking and hate crimes. A lot tears, and
anger. Today's (Friday) Cleveland Plain Dealer reported the following
(Strother's dad is sad his son won't get into med school?...wow) Please read:
Suspect in Shaker slaying
can't get death sentence
Scott Strothers was indicted yesterday on an aggravated murder charge in the
shooting death Tuesday of Penny Chang, 15, but will not face the possibility
of the death sentence.
Strothers, 21, was indicted by a Cuyahoga County grand jury on one count each
of aggravated murder and carrying a concealed weapon. But the murder count
does not carry a death-penalty specification as some, including Strother's
father, had expected.
Under Ohio law, there are several circumstances under which a person accused
of murder could face the death, such as killing a police officer, committing
multiple homocides or committing other serious felonies during the commission
of a homocide. (W00dyee inserts: This is the insane part. You mean stalking
and brutally gunning down a little girl--then shooting her some more after
she fell down to ensure she died--in and of itself isn't a serious enough
crime to merit capital punishment???? Ohio laws are asinine!)
Because the grand jury found that none of these conditions applied, Strothers
cannot be charged with capital murder.
Cuyahoga County Prosecutor William Mason said his office would push for life
imprisonment for Strothers if he is convicted.
"The defendant hunted this young girl continuously for months, then he
ruthlessly killed her," Mason said.
In an interview yesterday morning, Strother's father, Kenneth said, "My son
could've gone to medical school, but instead he's facing a capital murder
case."
He could not be reached to comment about the indictments last night.
DAD DESCRIBES A TROUBLED SON
SHAKER HEIGHTS--Kenneth Strothers said police officers investigating the death
of Penny Chang took only one item when they searched his Cleveland house: an
opened box of earplugs.
They told him they were the same kind of earplugs that his son Scott was
wearing to muffle the bang of the 9mm pistol he fired at Penny, 15, as she
made her way to school, he said.
"That's brilliant planning, isn't it?" Kenneth Strothers said yesterday. "He
wore earplugs.It's like him to think of something like that."
Police and witnesses said Scott, 21, sought out Penny from a throng of Shaker
Heights morning commuters Tuesday and fired from only a few feet away. After
she fell, witnesses said, Strothers fired more shots.
Scott is being kept without bond in Shaker Heights City Jail, where his father
hopes reality will finally set in. His son had escaped the possibility of the
death sentence but faces a possible life sentence.
Shaker Heights Police Chief Walter Ugrinic declined yesterday to address
whether Scott Strothers was wearing earplugs or what was confiscated in the
Tuesday night search of Kenneth Strothers' home.
In recent months, Kenneth Strothers said he had begged his son to forget about
the Chang family, with whom he said Scott had a "love-hate relationship."
He said Scott seemed to feel at times he was competing academically with
Penny's brother, Sean, who graduated with Scott from Shaker Heights High
School in 1996.
He said Scott also felt wronged by his unrequited love for Penny, although he
rarely discussed his feelings about her with his father.
But last year, Kenneth Strothers said his son told him that he wanted to kill
the Chang family and then kill himself. He said he alerted Scott's doctors and
Shaker Heights police.
"He couldn't get them out of his mind," Kenneth Strothers said. "He felt like
they hadn't suffered."
> . . . .
Last summer, Strothers said, other relatives told him that they were
concerned about Scott. By October, he was arrested for telephone harassment,
using a sling-shot to fire rocks through the front window, attempting to set
the garage on fire, and putting a glue-like liquid in the gas tank of the
Chang's car.
Strothers said the slingshot was his.
"I used to use it for hunting," he said. "It's like a low-powered rifle. I
told him, 'Scott, you could've killed someone if someone was standing on the
other side of that window."
M C Fong
No one, asian or black, immigrant or native, deserves this. I can't
understand why the father of the killer didnt do anything knowing what his
son said he wanted to do.
w00...@my-dejanews.com wrote in message
<7ctrc6$1o8$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>...
>
>
>http://www.ohio.com:80/bj/news/ohio/docs/017329.htm
>
>**** The entire Cleveland, Ohio community has been stunned this week by the
>brutal slaying of Jenny Chang, 15, by a stalker who shot this high school
>freshman girl as she walked to school, then stood over her and fired more
>bullets into her.
>
>The obsessed stalker, Scott Strothers, 21, had been harrassing the entire
>Chang family, originally from Shanghai, China, for several months--he had
>previously tried to firebomb the family garage, smashed windows, poured
glue
>in the gas tank of the family car, and made numerous harrassing phone calls
>to the home. There were also reports he sent Internet messages.
>
>Stalker Strothers' contact with the Chang family began when he meet one of
>the Chang boys when they both went to school at Ohio State Univeristy.
>According to an article in today's Cleveland Plain Dealer, Strothers
resented
>the Chang boy's academic achievement. Strothers dropped out of college.
The
>PD also reports that once he got to know the Changs, he felt the family
>"hadn't suffered enough." So he planned to murder this entire family of
>successful Chinese immigrants (Mr. Chang is a mathematic professor at
>Cleveland State University.)
>
>Strothers also developed an obsession with Chang's younger sister, who,
much
>younger than Strothers, rebuffed his advances. Earlier this week, Scott
>Strothers stalked and gunned down Penny Chang, 15, a high school freshman
as
>she walked to school and her classmates screamed. The story has been page
one
>in Cleveland this week. Last night there was a ceremony at the murder site
>for Penny Chang. Her father was interviewed this week, crying and angrily
>questioning why there were no "human rights for victims" and why his
family's
>harrassment continued after he reported it.
>
>Dealer in an interview published today. ``He wore earplugs. It's like him
to
>think of something like that.''
>
>The victim was killed while walking to school near Shaker Heights city hall
>and the police department. Strothers was arrested within minutes near the
> scene.
>
>Kenneth Strothers said his son and the victim's older brother, Sean, lived
>together as freshmen in a dorm at Ohio State University, which they both
>attended on scholarship. Stothers later dropped out.
>
>Last year, Kenneth Strothers said, his son told him that he wanted to kill
the
>Chang family and then kill himself. The father said he alerted Scott's
doctors
>and Shaker Heights police.
>
>He said Scott was shy around girls -- he had a ``female phobia,'' his
father
>said -- and never had a girlfriend.
>
>discusion of race harrassment/meruder at:
>http://forums.cleveland.com/forums/get/watercooler.html
>
w00...@my-dejanews.com
sponsored by several community organizations, Penny Chang's father spoke. He
had been given a list of names of young people who have been killed in
Cleveland for various reasons, drive-bys, etc. He said he was saddened to see
so many young lives snuffed out, like his daughter's. He said the violence
must stop. And stalking laws must change--as must the determination of what
constitutes a "capital offense" meriting the death penalty. If the stalker
had been trying to kidnap Penny, or if she had been a police officer, or if
he'd shot TWO people instead of just one, then he could get the death penalty
for this crime. But simply stalking and brutally murdering a little girl
isn't bad enough, I guess... so they say. Penny's dad also announced that his
daughter's organs had been donated (helping to destroy another stereotype of
Chinese, btw) and said he was happy to know that she was living on in others
already. Such a sweet, sad guy. (He is a mathematics professor at Cleveland
Stte University, from Shanghai.) Blacks, whites, and Asians attended--few dry
ears, covered heavily by local TV who are now joining in demands for reform
based on the Penny Chang murder. I believe that a new standard is
needed--"irreputable evidence"--for applying the death penalty. (Strothers
had been caught right in front of the police station where the shooting
occured, many witnesses saw him do it, his harrassment was recorded by the
police previously, so there is zero chance he didn't kill her... in such
murders, where a panel of judges could agree that there is no chance that it
could be found later that a person didn't commit the crime, I believe the
death penalty should be applied. To me, that's more relevant than the number
of people shot, or whether he was trying to commit a robbery or kidnap at the
time, or if the victim was a law enforcement officer. In the Penny Chang
case, he was caught on site, gun in hand, anbd there is no chance he isn't
the killer.)
Richard Lee
: victim's name corrected in title.
: a totally sick fuck. another example that hating asian males
: and "loving" asian females is not mutually exclusive.
Interesting.
This whole incident actually kind of reminds me of my own sister and all
her boyfriends who have hated my guts in the past.
Richard Lee
--
"You can't spell P-E-N-I-S without ESPN!"
--seen on a sign held by a student in the stands at the Utah vs.
Colorado St. basketball game in 1997, televised by ESPN.
Hugh Bonney
: http://www.ohio.com:80/bj/news/ohio/docs/017329.htm
: **** The entire Cleveland, Ohio community has been stunned this week by the
: brutal slaying of Jenny Chang, 15, by a stalker who shot this high school
: freshman girl as she walked to school, then stood over her and fired more
: bullets into her.
: ...
: ...
: discusion of race harassment/murder at:
: http://forums.cleveland.com/forums/get/watercooler.html
On 3/20/99
http://www.cleveland.com/news
Has a photo of the defendant and a couple of stories listed.
http://www.cleveland.com/forums/watercooler.html
Has some discussion under the number 1053, but terms like hate
crime or race don't seem to appear anywhere. It just seems to be
your standard demented crime. It is a puzzle why this man was out
and around at all and questions need to be asked about that. It
doesn't make sense that he wasn't convicted previously. It never
mentions a restraining order either, apparently none was sought
but complaints to the police had been made. This was one case
where "broken windows" police work would have paid off and wouldn't
have been remotely questionable even without 20/20 hindsight.
H.---
w00...@my-dejanews.com
Hugh Bonney <hbo...@netcom.com> wrote:
> w00...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
>
> : http://www.ohio.com:80/bj/news/ohio/docs/017329.htm
>
> http://www.cleveland.com/news
> Has a photo of the defendant and a couple of stories listed.
**** Hugh, did you have any trouble opening these stories? (My computer keeps
crashing at that site for some reason) These "Cleveland Live" stories are
essentially the electronic version of stories that appear in the Plain
Dealer print newspaper. I had to re-key one of the stories, earlier. The
Cleveland Live Web site is murder to navigate, IMO....
>
> http://www.cleveland.com/forums/watercooler.html
> Has some discussion under the number 1053,
***** That is a very poignant tribute to Penny Chang from one of her
classmates at Shaker High School. There was also another message from a
fellow student who knew Penny. (They rotate the message board, which is run
by The Plain Dealer, but it should still be up there...)
but terms like hate
> crime or race don't seem to appear anywhere.
**** Scroll down a bit. It's there. This is Cleveland, where the population
is roughly 50/50 black - white... and Asian-American issues are invisible.
For instance, one poster ("presumably" black) used the killing to question
whether the media would have made such an issue of the killing is Penny had
been black and lived in Hough (FYI, Shaker Heights is an upscale
neighborhood; Hough is the black ghetto) A presumable Asian-American posted
back questioning why that person was lumping Asians in with whites, noting
that Asians DO experience their own prejudice, yadda-yadda-yadda.......
Sadly, there were also some obscene,sick and racist comments regarding the
victim that the site was asked to remove. But overall the comments tend to
express a tremendous anger at a senseless killing... thoughts echoed by the
media, radio callers, etc. The Ohio State Legislature had a minute of silence
to honor Penny Chang.... I hope they now do some serious legislative reform
to make stalking murders captial crimes punishable by death.
It just seems to be
> your standard demented crime. It is a puzzle why this man was out
> and around at all and questions need to be asked about that. It
> doesn't make sense that he wasn't convicted previously. It never
> mentions a restraining order either, apparently none was sought
> but complaints to the police had been made. This was one case
> where "broken windows" police work would have paid off and wouldn't
> have been remotely questionable even without 20/20 hindsight.
>
> H.---
***** Without a doubt, this sad event has shed some light on the dirty issue
of harrassment, stalking, and the need to have laws with some teeth.
Susan Cohen
Richard Lee wrote:
> moo shu guy (asian...@hotmail.com) scribbled:
> : victim's name corrected in title.
> : a totally sick fuck. another example that hating asian males
> : and "loving" asian females is not mutually exclusive.
>
> Interesting.
>
> This whole incident actually kind of reminds me of my own sister and all
> her boyfriends who have hated my guts in the past.
Of course, this is normal (no, not because it's *you* :-> ).
Most guys hate the brothers of the girls they date, because
they know that the brothers not only know what they're
really after, but that the the brothers will try to prevent it -
or at least *avenge* it! :->
Susan
Susan Cohen
w00...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
> http://www.ohio.com:80/bj/news/ohio/docs/017329.htm
>
> **** The entire Cleveland, Ohio community has been stunned this week by the
> brutal slaying of Jenny Chang, 15, by a stalker who shot this high school
> freshman girl as she walked to school, then stood over her and fired more
> bullets into her.
And yet there are people opposed to capital punishment
on any grounds.
I won't even tell you what *I* would do to this guy.
There are youngsters who read these things.
Susan
Susan Cohen
w00...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
> DAD DESCRIBES A TROUBLED SON
>
> "That's brilliant planning, isn't it?" Kenneth Strothers said yesterday. "He
> wore earplugs.It's like him to think of something like that."
Well, this explains a lot.
Susan
Check
w00...@my-dejanews.com wrote in message
<7d1n7f$ftu$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>...
>In article <7cuum3$v3g$1...@brokaw.wa.com>,
> "Check" <ch...@halcyon.com> wrote:
>>
>> moo shu guy wrote in message <7cuouv$4hi$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>...
>> >
>> >a totally sick fuck. another example that hating asian males
>> >and "loving" asian females is not mutually exclusive.
>>
>>
>> The same type of murder happened recently here (Seattle) with an
obsessive
>> male (white) murdering the whole friggin family (white as well).
>>
>> Any words of wisdom to characterize that? Or does having an asian there
>> make for an easier intellectual assessment?
>>
>> Perhaps males by their nature are at odds with each other regardless of
>> race, and the rather universal societal ideas granting some sort of
>> assumed male control over women (which asian culture is no stranger to)
>> lays the foundation for attacks like these regardless of race.
>>
>> For the rest to play out you just need fraying fringe material, again
>> regardless of race.
>>
>> Tom Y
>>
>
>when she died. She was a HIGH SCHOOL FRESHMAN. Your comment above regarding
>"assumed male control over women" makes no sense in this context. It's
about
>a grown man stalking a young girl. Little Penny Chang wasn't a woman, yet.
>She was three years away from even going to her senior high school prom,
for
>Pete's sake! (also underscoring the vast sadness of a very young life cut
>short.)
>
Woody- I appreciate you taking these issues on, but my response is
mischaracterized.
What I'm saying is that there is no reason whatsoever at this time to
believe it was a hate crime, in spite of it being characterized that way in
pseudo intellectual and not so intellectual commentary.
At this point in time we have a murder, and it's a very sad story. As so
often happens, a man becomes obsessed with a woman who is almost always
younger, and in numerous tragic circumstances the emotionally disturbed
male enacts his revenge for whatever insult he perceives.
The urge to make it a race crime is another issue in itself. This reflects
a certain racism much more than we've seen to date in this murder, and it
also seems gross and opportunistic to capitalize on a tragic incident like
this.
>Strothers was a pedophile. That is a fact. As for any other labels to
motivate
>his clearly obsessive, hateful behavior toward the Changs, I think it's
wise
>for all of us to hold off until authorities look at the e-mails he sent to
>harrass her, examine his computer's hard drive, question his circles, etc.
>assuming they take these steps.
That's kinda my issue here.
>
. Got
>*probation* for all his crimes that he committed against the
>Changs--naturally... didn't do a day in jail.
>
>
>>>Saunders said if the same set of circumstance had occurred in Los
Angeles, the
>stalker could have been charged with a felony. He also could have received
a
>10-year restraining order and, because it was a case of a 21-year old man
>stalking a 15-year-old girl, he could have been charged as a sex offender."
I'm not really pining for details, but the gist of it seems to be that no
sex of any kind was involved.
>The MAJOR reason why I don't think race should be ruled out: if it was a
>motivation in Strothers' actions, then he committed a federal civil rights
>offense by stalking and killing Miss Chang, same as the guys in Jasper
Texas
>who killed the black man. A lot of Clevelanders and others want this guy to
>get the death penalty for what he did, regardless of motivation. But the
laws
>are stacked against victims, and written in such a way that this IS a
>legitimate issue. If race drove Strothers' obsession, it's a federal
offense.
>Sexual harrassment of Asian-American women and girls is sometime/often
>couched in racist terms (geisha, china doll, and very vulgar racist
demeaning
>terms I need not post here) Let me ask you a point blank question: if
>authorities examine those "distrubing"/hateful e-mails he sent Penny Chang
>that harrassed her so much.... the ones that her best friend, who says
Penny
>told her *everything*, couldn't even learn the content of, and that and
made
>her last few months alive so worrisome.... and authorities find they are
full
>of racist slurs and lurid racist allusions, would you say he commited a
civil
>rights violation and should receive a lethal injection?
I believe if guilty he should be executed for first degree murder of another
human. If those guys in Texas had dragged a fellow white guy to his death,
are you suggesting they be treated more leniently?
>
>My answer to that question. Hell, yes.
>
>Check, this is not the same type of disgusting "Asiaphile" witch hunt that
we
>sadly saw on scaa (you knew what I refer to)--Strothers is a *murderer*, a
>stalker, a pedophile. Given his track record, your concern that he may or
may
>not be also marked as a "racist" doesn't resonate with me whatsoever.
My question to you is 'Why is it so important to characterize this guy as a
racist or this crime as race motivated hate crime with no facts to support
it?' , assuming we are all reading the same information.
>Check, I consider you a person of high integrity, good character, without a
>single scrap of evidence to even come close to for an instant questioning
>anything about you. But I see no need to defend scum like Strother from
>legitimate questions in the course of an investigation of a campaign of
>extended terror ending that lasted for several months and ended in the
>horrible death of a young girl.
If you have to prove him a racist in order to have justice done, then that
is a flaw in the legal system.
Of course, then you just go after the outspoken racists or the ones that are
sloppy in demeanor. The closet racists or the quiet ones would be treated
less harshly. The laws should be applied equally.
I just hope the guy that wants to kill me is a racist, then perhaps he'll
think twice about it. :)
We seem to agree that with or without the race issue, there are no
mitigating circumstances in this case at the present time.
Tom Y
Check
w00...@my-dejanews.com
Strothers was a pedophile. That is a fact. As for any other labels to motivate
his clearly obsessive, hateful behavior toward the Changs, I think it's wise
for all of us to hold off until authorities look at the e-mails he sent to
harrass her, examine his computer's hard drive, question his circles, etc.
assuming they take these steps.
Today's Plain Dealer had another front page story about the case; more
disturbing information. Strothers would sometimes call the Chang's house a
hundred times a day, and hang up if Mr. Chang picked up the phone. But Penny
wanted nothing to do with him. He also began harrassing the entire
family--his hatred expressed by smashing their window with four metal balls
shot from a high-power hunting-style slingshot, trying to torch their garage,
and pouring a glue-like substance into the gas tank of the family car. The
Changs contacted the police and *filed charges*. He confesed last October to
those crimes and also pleaded no contest to telephone harassment. Got
*probation* for all his crimes that he committed against the
Changs--naturally... didn't do a day in jail.
Here's another whole section of today's PD article:
> And Penny was afraid of the Ohio State University drop out, said her best
friend, Robbie Taylor, 13. (w00dyee inserts: the fact that Penny's best
friend that she confided in during this critical time period was *13 years
old* sort of indicates that she was still a child in every sense of the word,
sadly, so unprepared to deal with a predatory monster like this Strothers
closing in on her...)
>Scott and Penny were "never boyfriend and girlfriend," Robbie said. "I've known
her since I was 5. We told each other everything. She was usually a happy,
bubbly person, but whenever she would talk about it, she would get this
serious look on her face. She looked scared when she was talking about
Scott."
>Robbie said Penny told her "This is really freaking me out. He started
e-mailing me and stuff, and I don't like it.
>"Penny said she didn't like the e-mails whatsoever,"Robbie said, adding that
Penny was so disturbed by the messages, she wouldn't even share them with her.
>"He repulsed her," says Monica Taylor, Robbie's mother. "Penny said he was a
creep."
Check and Hugh, the article then noted that Ohio stalking laws required that
Penny inform the autorities that she suffered mental distress due to these
calls, the article noting: "Mental distress is defined in the Ohio Revised
Code as 'any mental illness or condition that involves some temporary
substantial incapacity or mental illness or condition that would normally
require psychiatric treatment." How about that! Penny being "freaked out" or
"repulsed" by his constant assault of distrubing e-mails and calls wouldn't
be enough to charge him with stalking under Ohio law. It was up to *Penny* to
contact the Shaker police and report that she now suffered a *mental illness
requiring psychiatric treatment* before they could charge him with stalking!
Not only is the *definition* of what constitutes "stalking" in need of
revision in Ohio, so is the *punishment*. The Cleveland newspaper also did
some research and found that California laws, for example, are tougher
(allowing a person to potentially be charged with a felony for
stalking--unlike Ohio, where first-time stalking is only a misdemeanor,on par
with a crank call!... a key factor in the death penalty consideration). To
quote directly from the article again:
>Los Angles Deputy District Attorney Rhonda Saunders said police and courts
"need to use these stalking laws as an intervention to *take these guys off
the street*. We need laws that have teeth in them, not misdemeanors that are
a slap on the wrist."
>Saunders said if the same set of circumstance had occurred in Los Angeles, the
stalker could have been charged with a felony. He also could have received a
10-year restraining order and, because it was a case of a 21-year old man
stalking a 15-year-old girl, he could have been charged as a sex offender."
--end of my cites from article--
This is all such a tragedy. Again, I say Ohio laws are a sad mess. I've said
that before. I have said Ohio isn't like CA. If someone can help, please do.
Mr. Chang was interviewed on local Cleveland TV shortly after his daughter's
death crying for justice, wondering where were the "human rights" of victims
and why Strothers was never imprisoned. It touched me. I understood his
words.
Check, bottom line, this is no withc hunt over someo jilted lover or a guy
being rejected by a woman. He was a sick pervert stalking a young (Asian)
girl. The fact that paranthesis are inserted around the race of the *girl* of
his pedophilic obsession is the crux of your issue. Is her race relevant? Is
it irrelevant? How relevant was it to the stalker? Maybe we'll find
out........... maybe not. But hang on....
The MAJOR reason why I don't think race should be ruled out: if it was a
motivation in Strothers' actions, then he committed a federal civil rights
offense by stalking and killing Miss Chang, same as the guys in Jasper Texas
who killed the black man. A lot of Clevelanders and others want this guy to
get the death penalty for what he did, regardless of motivation. But the laws
are stacked against victims, and written in such a way that this IS a
legitimate issue. If race drove Strothers' obsession, it's a federal offense.
Sexual harrassment of Asian-American women and girls is sometime/often
couched in racist terms (geisha, china doll, and very vulgar racist demeaning
terms I need not post here) Let me ask you a point blank question: if
authorities examine those "distrubing"/hateful e-mails he sent Penny Chang
that harrassed her so much.... the ones that her best friend, who says Penny
told her *everything*, couldn't even learn the content of, and that and made
her last few months alive so worrisome.... and authorities find they are full
of racist slurs and lurid racist allusions, would you say he commited a civil
rights violation and should receive a lethal injection?
My answer to that question. Hell, yes.
Check, this is not the same type of disgusting "Asiaphile" witch hunt that we
sadly saw on scaa (you knew what I refer to)--Strothers is a *murderer*, a
stalker, a pedophile. Given his track record, your concern that he may or may
not be also marked as a "racist" doesn't resonate with me whatsoever.
Check, I consider you a person of high integrity, good character, without a
single scrap of evidence to even come close to for an instant questioning
anything about you. But I see no need to defend scum like Strother from
legitimate questions in the course of an investigation of a campaign of
extended terror ending that lasted for several months and ended in the
horrible death of a young girl.
> w00...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
> >> > http://www.ohio.com:80/bj/news/ohio/docs/017329.htm
> >
>
>
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
Timothy J. Lee
|In article <hbonneyF...@netcom.com>,
| Hugh Bonney <hbo...@netcom.com> wrote:
|> It just seems to be
|> your standard demented crime. It is a puzzle why this man was out
|> and around at all and questions need to be asked about that. It
|> doesn't make sense that he wasn't convicted previously. It never
|> mentions a restraining order either, apparently none was sought
|> but complaints to the police had been made. This was one case
|> where "broken windows" police work would have paid off and wouldn't
|> have been remotely questionable even without 20/20 hindsight.
|
|of harrassment, stalking, and the need to have laws with some teeth.
Based on the description of the events leading up to the killing,
it doesn't look like any new laws are necessary. If the description
of the previous stuff that the suspect is alleged to have done
(attempted arson (which could well be viewed as attempted murder if the
target building was occupied at the time), vandalism, phone threats,
etc.) is accurate, then it really is strange that the suspect wasn't
at least already in jail or on bail awaiting trial for that type of
stuff.
It's just like the whole "carjacking" thing a few years ago. It got
hyped in the media, and legislatures rushed out new laws against it
to gain election points. But the act was already illegal ("carjacking"
is a form of robbery if you think about it), so perhaps it is not
coincidence that, at least in some states, the "carjacking" laws
closely resemble the robbery laws.
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Timothy J. Lee timlee@
Unsolicited bulk or commercial email is not welcome. netcom.com
No warranty of any kind is provided with this message.
w00...@my-dejanews.com
see-signature-for-email-address---junk-not-welcome wrote:
> w00...@my-dejanews.com writes:
> |In article <hbonneyF...@netcom.com>,
> | Hugh Bonney <hbo...@netcom.com> wrote:
> |> It just seems to be
> |> your standard demented crime. It is a puzzle why this man was out
> |> and around at all and questions need to be asked about that. It
> |> doesn't make sense that he wasn't convicted previously. It never
> |> mentions a restraining order either, apparently none was sought
> |> but complaints to the police had been made. This was one case
> |> where "broken windows" police work would have paid off and wouldn't
> |> have been remotely questionable even without 20/20 hindsight.
> |
> |***** Without a doubt, this sad event has shed some light on the dirty issue
> |of harrassment, stalking, and the need to have laws with some teeth.
>
> Based on the description of the events leading up to the killing,
> it doesn't look like any new laws are necessary. If the description
> of the previous stuff that the suspect is alleged to have done
> (attempted arson (which could well be viewed as attempted murder if the
> target building was occupied at the time), vandalism, phone threats,
> etc.) is accurate, then it really is strange that the suspect wasn't
> at least already in jail or on bail awaiting trial for that type of
> stuff.
>
***** Tim, he was found guilty of three incididents of vandalizing the
Changs' house (smashing window) car (glue in the gas tank) and garage
(attempted arson) as well as plead no contest to telephone harrassment last
October. He received PROBATION.... never served a day in prison. (That's one
reason why Penny's dad was so angry after his daughter was killed--you should
have seen him talking about "human rights" for victims in local TV
interviews...)Please read that same post--it also explained how Ohio stalking
laws need to be strengthened. Had these crimes occured in CA, the sad outcome
might have been far different.
> It's just like the whole "carjacking" thing a few years ago. It got
> hyped in the media, and legislatures rushed out new laws against it
> to gain election points. But the act was already illegal ("carjacking"
> is a form of robbery if you think about it), so perhaps it is not
> coincidence that, at least in some states, the "carjacking" laws
> closely resemble the robbery laws.
>
****** Whatever. I wasn't talking about carjacking laws in another state. I
was talking about weak stalking laws in Ohio that fail to protect victims.
> --
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Timothy J. Lee timlee@
> Unsolicited bulk or commercial email is not welcome. netcom.com
> No warranty of any kind is provided with this message.
>
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
Richard Lee
:
:
: w00...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
:
: > DAD DESCRIBES A TROUBLED SON
: >
: > "That's brilliant planning, isn't it?" Kenneth Strothers said yesterday. "He
: > wore earplugs.It's like him to think of something like that."
: Well, this explains a lot.
:
: Susan
:
Richard Lee
: Richard Lee wrote:
: > This whole incident actually kind of reminds me of my own sister and all
: > her boyfriends who have hated my guts in the past.
: Of course, this is normal (no, not because it's *you* :-> ).
: Most guys hate the brothers of the girls they date, because
: they know that the brothers not only know what they're
: really after, but that the the brothers will try to prevent it -
: or at least *avenge* it! :->
Actually, I think they all hated me because I thought they were dorks
(literally, dorks) and used to make fun of them to their faces. Probably
not a good tactic if you wanna remain on good terms.
Richard Lee
Timothy J. Lee
Sounds like, stalking law or no stalking law, Ohio is pretty lenient
on crime in general (or has a messed up policy of deciding which
convicted criminals limited prison space is used for). What did Ohio
law specify as punishment for arson? Did the telephone harassment
include threats of violence, and, if so, what did Ohio law specify as
punishment for that?
w00...@my-dejanews.com
**** New story below: 1,000 attend another Cleveland memorial for
Chinese-American girl slain by stalker; memorial fund set up....
Strothers knew the Changs because he went to high school and later college
(Ohio State University) with Penny's older brother. The two reportedly had a
"falling out" in college, paper reports he was jealous of Chang's academic
success, and after Strothers dropped out of college he began aggressively
pursuing Sean Chang's very young sister back home that he'd developed a real
thing over. Penny had reported all of the telephone harrassment last fall
(October) Strothers pleaded no contest to telephone harrassment and he had
received probation (not a day in jail) for that and for damaging Chang family
property (smashing a window, damaging car, trying to burn garage). There was
a lull in activity over the holidays; Penny thought it was all over. But
"Sun" newspaper has reported that Strothers began e-mailing Penny about two
weeks before her death (she didn't report these *e-mails* to police or
family; she only told a few close friends about the e-mails... I wonder if
because he threatened her/her family if she did so... and/or because she saw
that reporting him the first time didn't put him out of circulation and had
angered him--common for stalking/abuse victims) Earlier PD article noted that
Penny was a happy child, born in Pittsburgh to immigrant parents she learned
to speak English in Clevelaand area kindergarten and was fluent in French as
well. Member of chess team and a computer wiz, she liked to surf the Net and,
like lots of kids, she and her friends frequented chat rooms often, including
the evening before she was stalked and murdered on way to school. In an
editorial in today's paper, the superintendant of schools Freeman notes that
Ohio legislature WAS considering a law even as Penny was gunned
down--unfortunately,it's one that would make carrying a concealed weapon
*legal*...hey, thanks Chuck Heston and NRA for those lobbying efforts!....
just what we don't need in a town where my wife is already afraid to go to
the nearest mall where she was stalked herself and where there has been
gunplay. Sad, eh?
Penny's memorial attended by 1,000
Monday, March 22, 1999
By ALAN ACHKAR
PLAIN DEALER REPORTER
SHAKER HEIGHTS - They came to share memories of Penny
Chang, to reminisce about the small things they would always
cherish - her smile, or the friendly "hello" in her greetings.
But for the 1,000 people who attended yesterday's memorial service
in honor of the Shaker Heights teenager, there were also warnings
and lessons, especially for her peers.
Warnings about violence, about gun control and about
communicating with family members.
"Children, please, talk to your parents, or at least your brother or
sister," JoAnn Chang, Penny's sister, implored the audience. "You
need to trust them. They love you. They love you, OK? Just
communication, OK?"
Penny Chang, 15, was fatally shot last Monday as she walked to
school. Scott Strothers, 21, a former family friend who has been
described as obsessed with her, was charged with aggravated
murder. Before the killing, Penny had confided to some friends that
she disliked Strothers and was afraid of him.
Yesterday, her family, friends and classmates filled the auditorium at
Shaker Heights Middle School for the hour-long memorial service.
Her teachers spoke about her thirst for learning, her enthusiasm, her
leadership in class discussions, her strong interest in computers
and the smile she always flashed.
"Life seemed good for Penny," recalled Bel Martin, Penny's teacher
in second and fourth grade. "I was happy for her."
If there is a message to be gained from her death, Martin said, it is
that, "We must come to understand that all life, every life, is
precious." Tandra Faison, 15, a close friend of Penny's, fought back
tears as she read a poem, titled "There is No Death," written in
honor of the slain teenager. The poem read in part:
"Just at the moment when someone at my side says, "There! She's
gone!'
There are other eyes watching her coming and other voices ready
to take up the glad shout, "There she comes!'"
Some speakers said there were lessons to learn from Penny's death.
Shaker Heights schools Superintendent Mark Freeman told Penny's
classmates to understand "there are people out there, even in this
peaceful community of ours, who would do harm" and that the
"availability of deadly weapons in our society makes it easier than
ever."
Another stern warning about guns and violence came from the Rev.
Marvin McMickle, president of the Shaker Heights Board of
Education. He railed against a society with lax gun-control laws,
video games that revolve around death and destruction and
television shows that glorify violence.
"When do we stop killing our children? When do we stop tolerating
a culture of guns and violence?" he asked the audience. "There will
be other people killed in the streets unless and until you and I, who
know there is a better way, stand up and say, "No.'"
At the end of the service, baskets filled with candy were offered to
those in attendance. In Chinese tradition, candy is provided to
mourners at the end of a funeral so it can bring "sweetness in our
time of sorrow."
Contributions in honor of Penny Chang can be sent to: The Penny
Chang Memorial Fund, Shaker Schools Foundation, 15600 Parkland
Dr., Shaker Heights, Ohio 44120.
©1999 THE PLAIN DEALER. Used with permission.
Jeff Luan
May you rest in peace, Penny, and may your death be another step towards the
justice we all seek.
As for this guy... makes you wonder what his Dad might have done when HE was 21,
hmmm?
Susan Cohen wrote:
> w00...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
>
> > DAD DESCRIBES A TROUBLED SON
> >
> > "That's brilliant planning, isn't it?" Kenneth Strothers said yesterday. "He
> > wore earplugs.It's like him to think of something like that."
>
Sean Chang
the whole damn thing makes me sick....
To think that this maniac may only get 5 years
since Ohio's damn laws are so lenient pisses me off.
Nothing would satisfy me more than
see this fucker spend the rest of his
life behind bars, but that is a long ways away...
kkramer
we give life for death?
Keith
Sean Chang wrote in message <7drsjj$iqq$1...@news.cis.ohio-state.edu>...
Sean Chang
Because of a few reasons:
-I want this guy to stew over this everyday for the rest of his damned life.
-Life in prison is often worse than death.
-The death penalty is not an option now, so there is little point
in discussing it. I would have agreed to it wholeheartedly had it been
an option. In fact, I would have liked limiting the options of punishment
to 2 : life in prison or death.
kkramer wrote in message ...
Sean Chang
kkramer
refer you to Mr Jens Sund who wants to throw the switch (he seems to like
sparky to injection - me too)
The fact that your sister or daughter's murderer is alive means you must
spend the REST OF YOUR LIFE fighting his getting OUT. Sharon Tate's mother
is still hauled into parole hearings against CHARLIE MANSON 30 years later.
Is that closure? If Jenny's killer lives he can get out and my daughters
will be in danger. It is not your decision, your voice does count, but so
the voice of other parents of beautiful children.
Believe me, Hell is worst than prison and that's where he is going. Eternal
torment, 150 degrees, quenching for thirst day and night that is never
satisfied, screaming, gnashing of teeth... never ceasing... Which is
punishment? Prison where he has full medical care, recreation, access to
computers and libraries, free attorneys, shelter and food or HELL? May
Jenny's killer suffer eternally and soon. Oh, and don't think his
conscience will bother him. Sociopaths don't have consciences which is the
reason they can take a life. Take care and I am so ashamed of this country
for allowing your loss,
Keith
Sean Chang wrote in message <7dt93d$6iq$1...@news.cis.ohio-state.edu>...
Sean Chang
>spend the REST OF YOUR LIFE fighting his getting OUT.
+++Agreed. However, even if he would have been given the death penalty, I'm
going to have to deal with this anyways.
Sharon Tate's mother
>is still hauled into parole hearings against CHARLIE MANSON 30 years later.
>Is that closure
+++That's why I seek life in prison with no parole.
Besides, I wouldn't mind giving him a piece of my mind every now and then.
>Believe me, Hell is worst than prison and that's where he is going.
Eternal
>torment, 150 degrees, quenching for thirst day and night that is never
>satisfied, screaming, gnashing of teeth... never ceasing... Which is
>punishment?
+++That would be a nice thought, had I been brought up in a religious
environment.
Besides, I think that sometimes state prisons are confused with federal
prisons. The former I've heard is much worse. Since he will be put into a
run down state prison, I don't think that he will be enjoying
many of the "benefits" if prison. There is a whole wait list of people who
will do whatever they can to make sure that his life in prison wouldn't be
anything less than hell.
Sean Chang
>Assuming you are her sister, and you are young...
+++If that isn't evident yet, I'm her brother.
>If Jenny's...
+++Penny, named after her birth state.
kkramer
Sean Chang wrote in message <7dtiaf$9ru$1...@news.cis.ohio-state.edu>...
>>The fact that your sister or daughter's murderer is alive means you must
>>spend the REST OF YOUR LIFE fighting his getting OUT.
>
>+++Agreed. However, even if he would have been given the death penalty, I'm
>going to have to deal with this anyways.
^^^ Yeah, you could get drunk and celebrate. Attend the funeral to see
that he's really dead. Spit and dance on his grave. Nothing with the
righteous celebrating triumph. You could do it forever and you will always
know where he is.
>Sharon Tate's mother
>>is still hauled into parole hearings against CHARLIE MANSON 30 years
later.
>>Is that closure
>+++That's why I seek life in prison with no parole.
^^^ Some bleeding heart will try to let him out. It's cheaper.
>Besides, I wouldn't mind giving him a piece of my mind every now and then.
^^^ I will do it for you!
>>Believe me, Hell is worst than prison and that's where he is going.
>Eternal
>>torment, 150 degrees, quenching for thirst day and night that is never
>>satisfied, screaming, gnashing of teeth... never ceasing... Which is
>>punishment?
>
>+++That would be a nice thought, had I been brought up in a religious
>environment.
^^^ What time is it? Preaching time! I don't believe the world is round,
but it is. I don't believe in gravity, but it's there. Your not believing
in Hell doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Think on these words.
>Besides, I think that sometimes state prisons are confused with federal
>prisons. The former I've heard is much worse. Since he will be put into a
>run down state prison, I don't think that he will be enjoying
>many of the "benefits" if prison. There is a whole wait list of people who
>will do whatever they can to make sure that his life in prison wouldn't be
>anything less than hell.
^^^ Haven't you heard of the ACLU? If the ISP isn't working, the courts
order the guard to personally deliver the prisoners messages to whomever.
But, I give! Send him to a Mexican prison and tell everyone he is a serial
child molester and murderer.
What did this monster do to Jenny, Sean? Don't answer if it is a problem.
A senseless death is enough to inflame me and the details aren't needed for
me to get the full picture.
Keith
Sean Chang
Many times she couldn't sleep at night. Outside of that, she had
so much going for her. She was a computer prodigy, good looking ( in the
eyes of others ), and was a very friendly and socialble person.
It is a tragedy that her personality and looks attracted an asshole
like him. She couldn't escape, and the laws were working AGAINST her.
kkramer
for them. Men target women. They marry for a second income, not to protect
and provide. A woman should never become involved with a man that her
family doesn't approve of. Infatuation clouds judgment. And, who is more
interested in what is best for their child? If everyone would defer to the
opinion of parents, this would be a different world. Young people don't
know how dangerous experimenting is either, whether it be drugs or mates. I
am sure Penny did the same things I did when I was young. The sentence for
the killing, apparently in a heated moment hence manslaughter, is
nevertheless an insult. Society is saying that the scum's life is more
important than Penny. And, those who knew her, and we who did not, know
better.
Keith
Sean Chang wrote in message <7dtl4s$at7$1...@news.cis.ohio-state.edu>...
Paul J. Ellis
kkramer wrote:
> ^^^ What time is it? Preaching time! I don't believe the world is round,
> but it is. I don't believe in gravity, but it's there. Your not believing
> in Hell doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Think on these words.
But your words above give no reason to believe in the existence of hell either.
There is firm evidence for the roundness of the earth, and for the existence of
gravity. None such for the existence of hell.
kkramer
Paul J. Ellis
you're implying that "the book" contains firm evidence for the existence of
hell, then why would you discount other books, written much less than 2000
years ago, that also give "firm evidence" for a flat earth?
Admit it - your view is an opinion. And a shaky one at that.
paul
kkramer
glas
news:BtrM2.463$3O3....@news-west.eli.net...
| Assuming you are her sister, and you are young... And, if you are mom, I
| refer you to Mr Jens Sund who wants to throw the switch (he seems to like
| sparky to injection - me too)
|
mother
| is still hauled into parole hearings against CHARLIE MANSON 30 years
later.
| will be in danger. It is not your decision, your voice does count, but so
| the voice of other parents of beautiful children.
I could be wrong about this, but I'm pretty sure that Sharon Tate's mother
is dead now. Not to worry tho, Sharon's sister has taken up the battle.
If there was "truth in sentencing" and people could trust that "life without
parole" or even just a life sentence meant the criminal would actually stay
locked up for the rest of his\her life, perhaps there would be more support
for doing away with the death penalty.
glas
|
| Believe me, Hell is worst than prison and that's where he is going.
Eternal
| torment, 150 degrees, quenching for thirst day and night that is never
| satisfied, screaming, gnashing of teeth... never ceasing... Which is
| punishment? Prison where he has full medical care, recreation, access to
| computers and libraries, free attorneys, shelter and food or HELL? May
| Jenny's killer suffer eternally and soon. Oh, and don't think his
| conscience will bother him. Sociopaths don't have consciences which is
the
| reason they can take a life. Take care and I am so ashamed of this
country
| for allowing your loss,
| Keith
|
w00...@my-dejanews.com
**** From Sun newspaper.
Tears, candy, laughter in memory of Penny
By RUSSELL WALKER
Staff Writer
March 25, 1999
SHAKER HEIGHTS -- Sophomore Sara Williams remembers a Penny Chang
who would smile at her as they passed through the halls of Shaker Heights
High School.
"She would say hi to me and she would remember my name," Williams said. "I
just always thought that was real sweet of her."
India Browne, 12, a student at Shaker Middle School remembered a Penny
Chang who liked to cook and was always ready to help.
"I thought she was a nice person because she would come over to our house
and cook some food from where she used to live, like Chinese and Asian food.
" Browne said. "She also used to help a lot of kids with their math."
In fact, everyone who ever met Penny Chang remembered something about her
that brought a smile.
Now they are shedding tears over her untimely death.
Penny, 15, was fatally shot the morning of March 16 on the corner of Lee
Road and Van Aken Boulevard. She was walking to school with friends.
Police have arrested and charged a family friend, Scott Strothers, 21, of
Shaker, with aggravated murder in connection with her death.
Those who knew her well were joined by those who didn't during a weekend of
memorial services and vigils.
Sidewalk memorials mark the spot where Penny
Chang was shot. Sun photo by Joseph W. Darwal.
The first memorial service was a candlelight
vigil held Friday evening on the corner where
she was killed. It has become a shrine of
flowers, stuffed animals, and goodbyes and
prayers scribbled in chalk.
About 50 people, mostly junior high and high
school students, participated in the event,
which was sponsored by VOICES: Victims of
Tragedy, Black on Black 2000 and Peace in
the Hood, several Cleveland-based
community groups who speak out against violence and advocate peaceful
conflict resolution.
"We're here to honor a fallen Angel, " said Khalid Samad, founder of Peace
in the Hood. "The young lady who died here cannot speak for herself, so we
are speaking for her."
Among the mourners was Penny's best friend, Robbie Taylor, 13, who spoke
about Penny's alleged killer. She said that while Penny was almost always
happy, the only time she grew serious was when she was talking about
Strothers and how frightened she was of him.
"I met the guy and I got this very bad feeling about him," Taylor said
"Before all this happened, she said he was a nice guy, but as it
progressed, she started talking about how she wanted him to stay away from
her and how she was scared of him."
A memorial service was held Sunday afternoon at Shaker Heights Middle
School, where more than 1,000 people came to pay their last respects.
Among the mourners at the service were Shaker Heights Mayor Patricia
Mearns, Dr. Mary Ellen Waithe, a colleague of Penny's father Ching. L.
Chang, a math professor at Cleveland State University, teachers who knew
Penny throughout her academic career and close friends and family.
The family requested that there be no media coverage.
Most of the hour-long service was filled with happy memories of Penny, who
enjoyed computers, hanging out at the library and being with friends,
attendees
said.
Dr. Robert Schneider, choir director at Shaker Heights High School,
provided music at the event.
But tarnishing those happy memories were words of warning by school
administrators that anyone could become a victim, especially with the growing
availability of handguns and the prevalence of violence in society.
"There are people out there, even in this peaceful community of ours, who
would do harm," said Shaker Heights Superintendent Mark Freeman.
"When do we stop killing our children? When do we stop tolerating a culture
of guns and violence?" asked Rev. Marvin McMickle, President of the Shaker
Heights Board of Education."There will be other people killed in the streets
until you and I, who know there is a better way, stand up and say, 'No.' "
Another warning came from Penny's sister, JoAnn Chang, on the importance of
communication between parents and children.
The plea was in reference to the fact that although she was having problems
with Strothers, she never really shared her fears with family members.
"Children, please talk to your parents, or at least your brother or
sister," Chang said. "You need to trust them. They love you, OK?"
According to Penny's parents -- her father Ching and mother Yun Hua --
Penny was cremated according to Chinese tradition. Her parents will keep her
ashes until one of them dies. Then they will be buried with her. Penny is
also survived by brothers Warren, 12, a seventh- grader at Shaker Heights
Middle School, and Sean Chang, a 1992 graduate of Shaker Heights High
School. Following a Chinese custom, the family placed bowls of candy out for
mourners so they could have something sweet with their sorrow.
Her heart, lungs and eyes were donated to medical science so that even in
death she could help people
"Our daughter is dead, but other people live because of her," said Ching.
Š 1999 Sun Newspapers
Go to Sun Newspapers home page
w00...@my-dejanews.com
Penny Chang case. The Asian-American community in Cleveland is small, but
determined and does good works. The Namkoongs are very active in the
community; Rose Wong is a skilled immigration lawyer; C.L.Chang is Penny's
dad (Penny's brother Sean has posted here); and many others are supporting
the Changs. If you wish to express support you may wish to get in touch w/
wu...@wushuboy.com. Myself, I'll do what I can. Thanks.
Penny Chang's Task Force
Forum: watercooler
Date: Fri, 02 Apr 1999 19:49:56 GMT
From: Johnny <wu...@wushuboy.com>
Declaration of community support for Chang’s family on the prosecution of
Penny’s murderer to the full extent of Ohio’s
laws.
A group of Chinese & Asian American Leaders met on 03/26/99 forming a group
called: “Task Force for Penny Chang’s
Murder Case”
This group solemnly declares the following:
1. We will form a circle of friends for Chang’s Family to provide support
whenever it is needed.
2. We will monitor the case and to ensure that the murderer will be punished
by the American Laws to their full extent.
3. We will form a coalition group by all people for justice. We also want to
prove that our laws really work.
4. We will protect and ensure our rights as a group.
5. We will raise funds for any expenses that arise from this case.
6. We will lobby support from other ethnicities, locally and nationally.
7. We will help strategize with the Chang family on their needs and turning a
tragedy to a better situation so Penny did not
die in vain.
We urge our peace-loving fellow-American to join us in this very important
task.
Task Force for Penny Chang’s
Murder Case
Members: Ray C. S. Chan (coordinator 440-238-9699), Howard Hope, Amy Hope,
C. Peng Chan, Virginia Chen, David Namkoong, Fran Namkoong, Gary Yano,
Johnny Wu, Yachun Ku, Nancy Yuen, Yan Xu, Stephen Lee, Xiaoyan Li, C. L.
Chang, Betty Lau, Xiangli Jia, Benson Lee, Lily Ng, Barbara Hing, Ray Hing,
Shan Chan, George Lieu, Yong Zhuan, Margaret Wong, James Chin, Wen Ko, Ray
Chen, and Chuck Chin.
Susan Cohen
kkramer wrote:
> Women don't realize, until a little maturity, that there is no protection
> for them. Men target women. They marry for a second income, not to protect
> and provide.
Uh, only *some* men - please!
Susan
Susan Cohen
kkramer wrote:
> I refer you to God himself.
That's funny, as G-d Himself tells *me*
that there is *no* hell.
Susan
honorius
>
> kkramer wrote:
>
> > Women don't realize, until a little maturity, that there is no protection
> > for them. Men target women. They marry for a second income, not to protect
> > and provide.
To eliminate housewives was one of the first and foremost objectives
of feminism.Now that this has been achieved, women are complaining
that men are doing what women always did.
Susan Cohen
honorius wrote:
> Susan Cohen wrote:
> >
> > kkramer wrote:
> >
> > > Women don't realize, until a little maturity, that there is no protection
> > > for them. Men target women. They marry for a second income, not to protect
> > > and provide.
>
> To eliminate housewives was one of the first and foremost objectives
> of feminism.
No, it wasn't. To eliminate the automatic assumption
that all women should first & foremost be housewives
was the first & foremost objective of feminism.
> Now that this has been achieved, women are complaining
> that men are doing what women always did.
Excuse me?
a) this has not been achieved (you are talking to one, &
there are penty more where I come from)
b) Since when have men ever done what women always
did on a regular basis????
c) No woman has *ever* complained when a man did
what is usually considered "women's work." *Fainted*,
maybe, but not complained!
Susan
w00...@my-dejanews.com
**** UPDATE:
Scott Strothers, the man charged with the stalking murder of Penny Chang, 15,
appeared before common pleas judge Patricia Cleary today to enter a plea of
not guilty by reason of insanity.
If found guilty, he is looking at a maximum sentence of 23 years, according to
tonight's news based on the charges.
kkramer
Factual basis for the plea?
That'll be a tough nut to crack (pun intended).
Keith
w00...@my-dejanews.com wrote in message
<7f66e8$nag$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>...