OT: How painful is it to drown
Jarron
painful for a small child than a grown adult?
I guess the only way anyone would know would be to talk to near-drowning
victims.
Anyone know? Thank you.
cro...@earthlink.net
"Jarron" <killin...@mytouche.com> wrote in message
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Jarron
<cro...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
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minutes.
p.b.
I don't guess weknow from those who actually drown. But I used to work with
a lady who *almost* drowned as a child and was thus afraid of water as an
adult, and she told me she was pretty close to truly drowning, had already
lost consciousness etc....she said she was very frightened and panicky at
first when she couldn't breathe but toward the end she said, and I quote "It
was a really peaceful feeling, like I was just slowly going to sleep and was
at peace. I think that drowning is probably one of the less painful ways of
dying aside from just dying in your sleep suddenly....I felt at peace and
started seeing a light and felt like it was the end and I was just
sleeping."
veryrich
Sebastian Junger's *The Perfect Storm* contains a long section that
attempts to answer this question. He collected a lot of research and
first-person accounts of near-drowings to compile a scenario of what it
is like to drown. It's the best account I've read. veryrich
netuse...@yahoo.com
So what'd he say? Painful or not?
David Chesler
I have also heard this.
I guess it is what signals are you getting from your brain? Are you
getting the "something is desperately wrong" signal?
Apparently getting your leg bit off by a shark isn't all that painful,
and from an evolutionary point of view that makes sense. If it's an
injury you can do something about, or a part of the body you want to
protect, pain is useful. If you're missing limbs, it doesn't much
matter any more.
I've also read from a trapper that beavers don't drown, since they
instinctively don't breathe while under water, instead they die of
carbon dioxide poisoning, and he wrote that they don't panic. That
doesn't make as much sense, since there ought to be an evolutionary
advantage if you're an aquatic mammal to get out of the water and into
the air when it's time to breathe.
I once screwed up while free diving, and observed the debate between
my lower brain that was saying "You need air, inhale" and my more
rational bits that were saying "No, you're still under water, if you
inhale now it would not be good, but we'll be at the surface pretty
soon." I imagine that's how drowning happens. I can believe that if
I'd inhaled the water I would have experienced relief from the hunger
to inhale, and I would have drifted into unconsciousness due to anoxia.
--
- David Chesler <che...@post.harvard.edu>
Iacta alea est
Karen
David Chesler wrote:
> I once screwed up while free diving, and observed the debate between
> my lower brain that was saying "You need air, inhale" and my more
> rational bits that were saying "No, you're still under water, if you
> inhale now it would not be good, but we'll be at the surface pretty
> soon." I imagine that's how drowning happens. I can believe that if
> I'd inhaled the water I would have experienced relief from the hunger
> to inhale, and I would have drifted into unconsciousness due to anoxia.
Sounds like a peaceful way to go, actually.
Karen
netuse...@yahoo.com
David Chesler wrote:
> > I have heard it is not painful
>
> I have also heard this.
> I guess it is what signals are you getting from your brain? Are you
> getting the "something is desperately wrong" signal?
>
> Apparently getting your leg bit off by a shark isn't all that painful,
> and from an evolutionary point of view that makes sense. If it's an
> injury you can do something about, or a part of the body you want to
> protect, pain is useful. If you're missing limbs, it doesn't much
> matter any more.
You're probably not too far from the truth - I once had three of my
left-hand fingers run around a chained sprocket, like that on a
bicycle; I was oiling the gear behind a piece of equipment, when an
operator gave the machine a 'cycle'. My fingers caught between the
chain & sprocket and "made the loop". It was a scene from Monty Python
as blood started pouring out of my fingertips, and I remember thinking,
"This looks really bad, but strangely painless.". Fortunately, I made
it to the hospital and suffered no permanent damage - but "zero pain",
**initially**.
Whether the nerves endings were cut too quickly to process pain, or
adrenalin rushing to 'pain shut-off valves' in the brain - I've had
several of those, "This looks really bad" experiences, and recall not
having initial sensations of pain.
> I've also read from a trapper that beavers don't drown, since they
> instinctively don't breathe while under water, instead they die of
> carbon dioxide poisoning, and he wrote that they don't panic. That
> doesn't make as much sense, since there ought to be an evolutionary
> advantage if you're an aquatic mammal to get out of the water and into
> the air when it's time to breathe.
>
> I once screwed up while free diving, and observed the debate between
> my lower brain that was saying "You need air, inhale" and my more
> rational bits that were saying "No, you're still under water, if you
> inhale now it would not be good, but we'll be at the surface pretty
> soon." I imagine that's how drowning happens. I can believe that if
> I'd inhaled the water I would have experienced relief from the hunger
> to inhale,
> and I would have drifted into unconsciousness due to anoxia.
And unless you're Ed Harris in 'The Abyss', add wretching and lurching
while your lungs struggled for oxygen and instead filled with water -
not saying it would be painful, but quite a ways from blissfully
drifting off to unconsciousness.
Rev "Fragile Warrior"
"veryrich" <vvvr...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1118925428.7...@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
And it said......... ??
ronniecat
<vol...@ccrtc.com> swore to tell the truth, the whole truth and
nothing but the truth, but instead wrote:
>> Sebastian Junger's *The Perfect Storm* contains a long section that
>> attempts to answer this question. He collected a lot of research and
>> first-person accounts of near-drowings to compile a scenario of what it
>> is like to drown. It's the best account I've read. veryrich
>
>And it said......... ??
IIRC, his conclusion was that it wasn't painful in the conventional
sense but was very agonizing.
However I grew up in Newfoundland and became a bit of a "Perfect
Storm" buff after living through it (a personal highlight was a chance
meeting with Judy Reeves, the Canadian fishing observer who was aboard
the Japanese longliner Eishin Maru No. 78 that night). I looked
forward to the book eagerly but my overwhelming memory of what I
thought as I was reading it was of how sloppy and inaccurate it was,
based on other books, documents and documentaries I'd' seen, so I
don't know how much his conclusions about drowning can be trusted.
ronnie
--
return address altered. remove my collar to reply.
"Other cultures are not a failed attempt at being you."
http://www.hearingloss.blogspot.com * a weblog about deafness
netuse...@yahoo.com
Apparently, any experienced pain depends on several factors.
from: http://www.pwcsafetyschool.com/newmexico/hb_46.html
"Falling into cold water triggers a gasping reflex, causing the victim
to inhale water. Total immersion in cold water is very painful and the
disoriented victim can quickly panic. With these combined reactions,
the victim may drown quickly. The best prevention for this danger is to
wear a life jacket with a cold-water survival suit."
and
"The principal physiologic consequence of immersion injury is prolonged
low oxygen level in the blood (hypoxemia). After initial gasping, and
possible aspiration, immersion stimulates hyperventilation, followed by
voluntary cessation of breathing and a variable degree and duration of
laryngospasm. This leads to hypoxemia. Depending upon the degree of
hypoxemia and resultant acidosis, the patient may develop cardiac
arrest and central nervous system (CNS) lack of blood supply. Asphyxia
leads to relaxation of the airway, which permits the lungs to fill with
water in many individuals ("wet drowning"). Approximately 10-20% of
individuals maintain tight laryngospasm until cardiac arrest occurs and
inspiratory efforts have ceased. These victims do not aspirate any
fluid ("dry drowning")."
Interseting stuff really - and of course, you could always get quickly
snapped up by a shark or gator.
Rev "Fragile Warrior"
"ronniecat" <ronn...@mycollar.ronniecat.com> wrote in message
news:c7q5b1ppnn6oqikqe...@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 17 Jun 2005 09:47:47 -0500, "Rev \"Fragile Warrior\""
> <vol...@ccrtc.com> swore to tell the truth, the whole truth and
> nothing but the truth, but instead wrote:
>
>>> Sebastian Junger's *The Perfect Storm* contains a long section that
>>> attempts to answer this question. He collected a lot of research and
>>> first-person accounts of near-drowings to compile a scenario of what it
>>> is like to drown. It's the best account I've read. veryrich
>>
>>And it said......... ??
>
> IIRC, his conclusion was that it wasn't painful in the conventional
> sense but was very agonizing.
>
> However I grew up in Newfoundland and became a bit of a "Perfect
> Storm" buff after living through it (a personal highlight was a chance
> meeting with Judy Reeves, the Canadian fishing observer who was aboard
> the Japanese longliner Eishin Maru No. 78 that night). I looked
> forward to the book eagerly but my overwhelming memory of what I
> thought as I was reading it was of how sloppy and inaccurate it was,
> based on other books, documents and documentaries I'd' seen, so I
> don't know how much his conclusions about drowning can be trusted.
>
> ronnie
Actually, I think it makes perfect sense. "Agonizing" might be the right
word instead of painful. I can't imagine anything worse than not being able
to draw a breath. AAMOF, I'm one of the few people who have never seen
Titanic for that very reason.
-Rev Fragile Warrior
"And I'm never going to see it and they can't make me."
Sandi
"Rev "Fragile Warrior"" <vol...@ccrtc.com> wrote in message
news:d8vb48$137s$1...@news.iquest.net...
Sandi
Scorpi...@attnospam.net
Try it and report back to us if you can.
--
Scorp
Alan Hope
>>>>And it said......... ??
>>> ronnie
Most people only realise that once it's too late, after they're
already seen it. Not Volfie.
Not me neither, either. I never saw it because I was like yeah
leonardo right, save me a seat -- NOT.
Which as it turned out was pretty prescient.
--
AH
proudmari
>Actually, I think it makes perfect sense.
> "Agonizing" might be the right word
> instead of painful. I can't imagine
> anything worse than not being able to
> draw a breath. AAMOF, I'm one of the
> few people who have never seen Titanic
> for that very reason.
>-Rev Fragile Warrior
>"And I'm never going to see it and they
> can't make me."
"Agonizing" is the PERFECT word for it. Obviously I haven't drowned, but
having come damn close can say with certainty that whatever "calming"
sensation might eventually come along, it's proceeded by WAY too much
time of chest pain and panic to be _worth_ waiting for. I'm surprised
more people haven't jumped in here who HAVE come this()close to drowning
and remember how LONG even a few minutes of time underwater can feel
like when you're not _under_ there by choice!
proud (gulp gulp gulp) mari
Sandi
"Alan Hope" <not.al...@mail.com> wrote in message
news:sjf6b114jkrmbsdqf...@4ax.com...
know teenage boys) gave it to my son as a gift. I'm sure glad I didn't
spend money on it.
Sandi
Wild Monkshood
Rev "Fragile Warrior" wrote:
>AAMOF, I'm one of the few people who have never seen
> Titanic for that very reason.
>
> -Rev Fragile Warrior
> "And I'm never going to see it and they can't make me."
Not even if I told you that ACG Burro has a cameo in the Steerage scene.
Wild (Even though he's not a Steer....) Monkshood
>
>
Wild Monkshood
Alan Hope wrote:
>
> Not me neither, either. I never saw it because I was like yeah
> leonardo right, save me a seat -- NOT.
>
> Which as it turned out was pretty prescient.
Strange. I watched it mainly just to see Leonardo DiCRAPio drown.....
Wild (no spoiler space) Monkshood
>
>
Wild Monkshood
Sandi wrote:
>>
>
> I fought it for years, and only saw it after someone (who obviously doesn't
> know teenage boys) gave it to my son as a gift. I'm sure glad I didn't
> spend money on it.
I was pissed because I thought the old Broad was going to take a header
into the water but instead tosses in the uber valuable necklace. I
thought, "Gee, the old Bat must really hate her Granddaughter...."
Wild Monkshood
>
> Sandi
>
>
Rev "Fragile Warrior"
My admiration for you remains unblemished then.
Giselle (::swooning::)
Rev "Fragile Warrior"
"proudmari" <mar...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:19230-42B...@storefull-3231.bay.webtv.net...
The time I came close was in a school pool. I just taken a nice dive from
the board and when I came up I had (what must have been -- I never really
investigated it) a larynx spasm for some reason. I just remember being in
the middle of the deep end and trying to inhale while simultaneously trying
to make my way to the side of the pool. It was probably 15 feet away but it
seemed like 150 and the goddamn teacher never even noticed a student in
distress. As soon as I got to the pool wall it stopped and I never had it
happen again. I love water but, man o' man, do I respect it.
I can perfectly remember not being able to breathe and trying so hard to
suck in air. I can only imagine what it must be like to want air and suck
in water instead. My #1 least favorite way to die.
Giselle (so I didn't come this > ][ < close but I feel like I understand it
perfectly)
ronniecat
<vol...@ccrtc.com> promised to tell the truth, the whole truth and
nothing but the truth but instead wrote:
>
>"proudmari" <mar...@webtv.net> wrote in message
>news:19230-42B...@storefull-3231.bay.webtv.net...
>"Agonizing" is the PERFECT word for it. Obviously I haven't drowned, but
>having come damn close can say with certainty that whatever "calming"
>sensation might eventually come along, it's proceeded by WAY too much
>time of chest pain and panic to be _worth_ waiting for.
<snip>
>The time I came close was in a school pool. I just taken a nice dive from
>the board and when I came up I had (what must have been -- I never really
>investigated it) a larynx spasm for some reason. I just remember being in
>the middle of the deep end and trying to inhale while simultaneously trying
>to make my way to the side of the pool.
>Giselle (so I didn't come this > ][ < close but I feel like I understand it
>perfectly)
Thanks to both of you for sharing your first-hand experiences...
always nice when someone injects a little knowledge into our usual
random musings and wild speculation.
Not that there's anything WRONG with that.
It's one of the things I come to a.t-c *for*.
ronnie
--
address altered to foil spambots - remove mycollar to reply
"They put me on the 'Waiting to Exhale" waiting list, but
they told me not to hold my breath." - Homer Simpson
http://www.hearingloss.blogspot.com - a weblog about deafness
Rev "Fragile Warrior"
"Wild Monkshood" <wild_mo...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:OwJse.134066$J25....@bignews6.bellsouth.net...
Not even if he's wearing my best undies and my pearl necklace.
-Rev Fragile Warrior
"<insert crude jokes here>"
Rev "Fragile Warrior"
HE DROWNED?????????????????????
Goddamnit. I just knew someone would drown.
-Rev Fragile Warrior
"Gonna have nightmares tonight."
proudmari
>Strange. I watched it mainly just to see
> Leonardo DiCRAPio drown.....
>Wild (no spoiler space) Monkshood
>HE
> DROWNED?????????????????????
>Goddamnit. I just knew someone would
> drown.
>-Rev Fragile Warrior
>"Gonna have nightmares tonight."
It's been awhile since I saw it...but didn't he actually freeze to
death? I seem to remember his ice covered corpse slipping beneath the
water after hanging onto the side of whatever 'the girl' was floating on
all night.
proud (could be wrong though) mari
AndScene
Yes. Most of the people who died on the Titanic didn't drown, they
froze to death.
And I'm pretty sure it was painful AND agonizing!
AndScene
couple who were selling their yacht to someone - and when they went for
a test ride, they were apparently tied up and thrown overboard in shark
infested waters.
I think drowning in that situation would be horrifying. Having your
hands tied and not being able to protect yourself - and then seeing
your spouse struggle -- would be so awful. That poor couple. I remember
seeing their son on Larry King and he said that he wishes they didn't
try to save the $90K they would have given a broker by selling the boat
themselves. I always remember that now --- don't try to save money by
selling things yourself - have a professional do it.
My2Cents
> freeze to death?
Yes, he died from hypothermia.
Wild Monkshood
I think you're right. However, you could see his eyes as he went to
Davy Jones Locker, so that was good enough for me.
Wild Monkshood
Wild Monkshood
My2Cents wrote:
The hypothermia was secondary. He already had terminal acting syndrome....
Wild Monkshood
>
Wild Monkshood
My2Cents wrote:
Terry Shiavo's Parents said that with Therapy he could have recovered
from hypothermia, so the drowning was what killed him. Too bad one of
those sailors that tried to get in with a cup o' air didn't make it past
the line of ice sharks....
Wild (Bigg Lyre) Monkshood
>
Rev "Fragile Warrior"
ARGH!!
-Rev Fragile Warrior
"That did not make the story better."
David Chesler
in greater Boston.
I dunno. I was brought up swimming in the summer, and learned to swim
early on. A lot of these cases are some teenagers in a local pond
(often recent immigrants, although why they swim less in Brazil than
Boston I can't figure), often they "get tangled in weeds". I figure
that means they panicked. (My family used to use a lake about 40 miles
north of New York City. As the area around it got developed more
people grew lawns, and more fertilizer ran off into the lake, making
for more weeds. My job was to jump off the boat, swim underneath, and
clear the weeds from the rudder and centerboard. Swimming through
weeds was a little more difficult that through clear water, and
messier, but the water was just as bouyant. Weeds don't "pull you
down".)
See http://news.bostonherald.com/localRegional/view.bg?articleid=90113
Instead of celebrating Father's Day with the man she called
``dad,''
little Joselyn Gomez cried and clutched the card she'll
never be
able to give him.
The 7-year-old Chelsea girl was playing by a pond's edge in
Lynn
Saturday when she slipped into the ``hole.''
Her mom's heroic boyfriend, Mario Valladares, jumped in and
got
her to safety. But after saving her life - and before her
frightened eyes
- he panicked, slipped under the murky surface and drowned.
``Mario helped me. I almost went far down in the hole. He came
in and
grabbed me,'' Joselyn recalled yesterday from her front
steps.
... Valladares, who couldn't swim, told the kids not to go
in the water ...
When Valladares began to struggle, one of his friends
jumped in but
couldn't save him.
``He held his hands up but his head was down,'' Victor
said.
``He was brave.'' ...
--
- David Chesler <che...@post.harvard.edu>
Iacta alea est