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Eminem Was Kate Faber's First Target Before Kobe

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s_knight8

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Jul 8, 2004, 10:26:40 AM7/8/04
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http://www.fratpack.com/article-main.php?id=12

It was late December in 2002 and Kate Faber was plotting to make her next
"trophy" Eminem. Faber had an obsession that involved sleeping with
celebrities long before her encounter with Kobe Bryant according to one of
her best friends at the time, Laie. Faber received information about Eminem
's upcoming visit to Vail, Colorado. Faber talked with Laie and Mandy about
her plan to sleep with Eminem a week before he actually arrived in Colorado.
Faber tracked down the information regarding what hotel Eminem would be
staying at, and when he'd be arriving. Now she knew the day and time he was
scheduled to arrive. All that was left for Kate Faber to achieve her goal
was to talk her friends into driving her to Vail, which was about three
hours away.
Almost immediately after Laie met Kate she began talking about how
badly she wanted to sleep with Eminem. Faber's ultimate goal was to sleep
with any celebrity, but she thought the status it would bring her if she
slept with Eminem would be beyond anything she could imagine. Faber told her
fiends she'd do anything if she could get an opportunity to sleep with a
celebrity, but that Eminem would be the ultimate prize. The only experience
she had up until that point when it came to sleeping with a celebrity was
the encounter she had with a Justin Timberlake celebrity look-a-like from
New York. Faber met him in line at the American Idol auditions in Austin,
Texas. Kate, Mandy and Laie talked about how Kim Mathers wasn't good enough
for Eminem. Kate wanted him, and she was prepared to do whatever it took to
get him into bed with her.

All three times that Kate Faber either planned to sleep with, or
actually slept with a "celebrity" are very similar in nature. First there
was the Justin Timberlake look-a-like who she met in line during her
audition for American Idol. After the audition they went out clubbing and
then Kate ended up talking her way into his hotel room. When she returned
home from that encounter she immediately began to brag about it and pinned
the condom wrapper on her bulletin board, and referred to it as her
"trophy." What most people don't realize is Kate confided to Laie and Mandy
that she did this just to get back at her "boyfriend" at the time Matt, to
stick it in his face, and make him jealous.

Then next was her plan to sleep with Eminem. Faber's encounter with
Kobe Bryant is very similar to what she had planned in order to get Eminem
into bed when he visited Colorado six months earlier. Faber wanted Laie and
Mandy to drive her to the hotel where Eminem was staying. She planned to
wait in the lobby of the hotel for Eminem. She planned to approach him as
he entered the lobby and start a conversation with him. Then her plan was
to work her way back up to his room in an attempt to sleep with him. The
alternative was to find out which room he was in, and just knock on the door
and work that angle. Either way Kate Faber was determined to sleep with
Eminem if she could convince her friends to drive her to Veil.


Fortunately for Eminem, Laie and Mandy refused to drive her the three
hours one way so Faber would have an opportunity to sleep with Eminem. In
fact, and I've said this before, Eminem should contact both Laie and Mandy
and give them back stage passes to his next show. For its very possible
that Eminem might be the one on trial for rape right now if Kate Faber had
her way.

Huck: When did Kate first tell you that she was going to be trying out for
American Idol?

Laie: About a month before she when down to the audition in Austin, Texas.

Huck: When she traveled to Texas for the auditions who took her to the
airport?

Laie: We did, Mandy and I.

Huck: When she returned, who picked Kate up at the Airport?

Laie: Her parents.

Huck: How long after she returned was it before you actually talked with
her?

Laie: That same day.

Huck: What did Kate tell you that happened while she was down there?

Laie: She told me that she didn't make it past the first part of the
auditions. And that she meet a really hot guy in line. She said that this
guy that looked like Justin Timberlake and her friends went out clubbing
that night. And that they went back to his hotel room at the end of the
evening.

Huck: What did they do in this hotel room?

Laie: She said she slept with him and then went back to her hotel that
night.

Huck: Did she say why she slept with him?

Laie: She was first attracted to him because he looked a lot like Justine
Timberlake and that's why she slept with him.

Huck: Do you know if they were drinking or using drugs that night?

Laie: I don't think they used any drugs, but she said that they were
drinking.

Huck: Was there any other celebrities besides Kobe Bryant had Kate stated an
interest in?

Laie: One in particular that was almost an obsession was Eminem.

Huck: What did she have to say about him that lead you to believe that?

Laie: We talked about getting with him. And on one occasion he was slated to
be in Vail, and she wanted Mandy and I to take her to Vail.

Huck: How did she know he was in Vail?

Laie: She had heard from one of her friends in Vail that Eminem was going to
be staying at the hotel they worked at.

Huck: So this friend of Faber's worked at the hotel and told her when he'd
be arriving?

Laie: Not so much when he'd be arriving, but during what time period he'd be
there.

Huck: But Faber had to know that Eminem was going to be there the night she
wanted you to drive her to Vail?

Laie: Yes. And you we had a place to stay if need be for a couple of days at
any of her friends house's or at her parents house.

Huck: What was her plan when she arrived at the hotel he was staying at?

Laie: She wanted to meet him in the lobby and work her way up to his room.

Huck: For what purpose?

Laie: To try and sleep with him.

Huck: So in another words her intent in making this trip was to get Eminem
in his hotel room so she could sleep with him. There was no other reason for
her wanting to make this trip?

Laie: This was specifically to intercept Enimem and sleep with him.

Huck: Why didn't she make the trip?

Laie: Mandy and I felt it was way to far of a drive, and we didn't think she
had a chance in hell of getting into his room because there would be so many
damn people there. It just didn't seem feasible.

Huck: Was there any other way Kate could have made this trip besides you and
Mandy driving her there?

Laie: Not unless someone came from Eagle to pick her up and bring her back.
And she didn't know anybody that would do that for her.

Huck: Why was she so obsessed with Eminem?

Laie: Um, first and foremost because of how famous he was. It was impossible
to not go to a magazine rack and not see his photo. And because of his face
and body.

Huck: Was there anyone else she obsessed about as much as Eminem?

Laie: No. Not even close.

Huck: Do you see any similarities in her encounters with the Justin
Timberlake look-a-like and Kobe Bryant. And what she had planned as a means
to get to Eminem?

Laie: Just the fact that all three had celebrity status. That she was
willing to do a six hour round trip drive over just a possibility that she
might get to Eminem. That she either used, or wanted to use their hotel room
as the place she slept with them.

Huck: From what you know of Kate Faber. Is there anything that leads you to
believe that she didn't put herself in a position with Kobe Bryant for the
sole purpose of having sex with him because he was a celebrity?

Laie: No.

Huck: From your prior experiences with Kate Faber. Do you believe her
intention, from the moment she decided to go up to his room, was to have sex
with Kobe Bryant?

Laie: I believe that was her intention from the second she found out he was
going to be there.

Huck: Again, from your past experiences with Kate Faber do you believe that
she was raped by Kobe Bryant.

Laie: No I don't believe that.

Huck: Do you believe that she is lying about being raped, and is using this
for the sole purpose of getting the attention she's received by claiming he
raped her?

Laie: Yes.

Huck: In your past experiences with Kate Faber as a friend, have you know
her to lie to keep herself out of trouble?

Laie: Yeah.

Huck: Can you give me any examples of this?

Laie: She always lied to her parents by telling them she was going to class
when she wasn't. Because she knew they'd take away her car and funding if
they found out she wasn't going to class. She lied to guys by telling them
by saying she didn't have a boyfriend when she was still going out with
Matt. She lied to Laura when she told her she wasn't sleeping with the guy
she was dating, but she was sleeping with him. There were other incidents
but this is what comes to mind right now.

Huck: You told us about the other time she had slept with three guys over a
three day period before. With that said, do you believe its possible that
she slept with one guy before Kobe Bryant, and one guy after Kobe Bryant
when she claimed she was raped by him?

Laie: Yes.

Huck: So that wouldn't be totally out of character for her?

Laie: No.

Huck: From what you know of Kate. What do you think her reason or motive
would be for claiming that Kobe Bryant raped her?

Laie: To become famous or infamous, which ever way you want to look at it.

Huck: Do you think Kate is capable of manipulating people around her in to
taking her side on the issue of whether or not she was rape?

Laie: Yes.

Huck: Would it be out of character for Kate to talk about her sexual
experiences with others after they occurred?

Laie: Not at all. After she slept with other guys when you were friends, she
'd come back and discuss what happened with you.

Huck: Does it surprise you, as was reported by Michelle Hofland of NBC, that
Kate was at a party about two weeks after the alleged raped telling everyone
about it. Including the fact that she was describing parts of Kobe Bryant's
anatomy?

Laie: No. Especially if what she saw with regards to his anatomy was out of
the norm. I've heard 13 inches, but I don't know.

Huck: As well as you knew Kate would you believe that if she was raped by
Kobe Bryant, that she'd have sex with another person hours after it took
place.

Laie: No. It would be odd that her or any rape victim would have sex
immediately afterwards.

Huck: The time that you spoke of where she had sex and ended up bleeding
afterwards. Did Kate have sex with anyone within the next 24 yours that you
knew of after that occurred?

Laie: No.

Huck: Did she express any reluctance in having sex again after that had
happened?

Laie: No.

Huck: Did any of your discussing revolve around how long it would take for
these injuries to heal?

Laie: No.

Huck: Did she talk about seeing a doctor about those injuries, or have any
concerns with regards to those injuries at the time?

Laie: No. She had concerns, but after talking to me. I explained that in
that position if the guy was larger than average it could cause those types
of injuries.

Huck: So before she had sex with Kobe Bryant. And based on her previous
experience and your discussion with her the first time she experienced this
type of bleeding. She would have been well aware of the fact that having sex
with him in that position could easily cause bleeding if he was larger than
average?

Laie: Yes.

Huck: So it would be fare to say she knew there was a good possibility that
there would be evidence of her bleeding before she even had sex with Kobe
Bryant afterwards?

Laie: Yes.

Huck: In your opinion is there anything that leads you to believe that Kate
Faber would have been raped by Kobe Bryant. And if not, do you believe she
is just using this claim that she was raped to get attention?

Laie: From what I know, I don't believe she was raped. That she's just using
this to bring attention to herself.


Dave Zero

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Jul 8, 2004, 12:50:54 PM7/8/04
to

My boy Slim is too sharp for this ho to ever get her wish.

I can see the logic, though. Eminem's got enough money and enough fame
that she could later claim that "he raped me" and get maybe some out of
court settlement money or at least one step closer to the celebrity
status she's so obsessed by achieving for herself.


--
Dave Zero

"And I don't care about making an ass out of myself because most people
already realize I am one." - Dr. Kary B. Mullis

"I criticize by creation" - Cicero

"I'm not here to make people happy. I prefer to piss people off." - Liam
Gallagher


Curtis Blofeld

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Jul 8, 2004, 1:42:56 PM7/8/04
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"Dave Zero" <dave...@mindspring.com> wrote in news:OXeHc.12201$yy1.1935
@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net:


Eminem was birthed from an egg laid by a serpent.

Reptilian Watch
http://www.bedoper.com/reptilian


--
BeDoper - BeOS. Humor?
Reptilian Watch
Rec.Music.Hip-Hop - The Website
No 757 Hit The Pentagon, You Idiot
Awake! and Bake
Death Metal Music Association
Crapdot.org
http://www.bedoper.com/

Messalina

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Jul 8, 2004, 4:18:18 PM7/8/04
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"s_knight8" <s_knigh...@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<ccjlj0$s...@dispatch.concentric.net>...
> http://www.fratpack.com/article-main.php?id=12
>
>-snip-

>
> Laie: From what I know, I don't believe she was raped. That she's just using
> this to bring attention to herself.

Funny, thats just what I was thinking about you, you little tramp.

Mez

Terraholm

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Jul 8, 2004, 4:52:37 PM7/8/04
to

s_knight8 wrote:
> http://www.fratpack.com/article-main.php?id=12
>

Talk about someone looking for attention. She has a form for TV appearances
and posted her supeona...
http://www.fratpack.com/about.php
The Frat Pack is about having fun. Frat Pack members and participants
objective is to have fun and make a difference. Frat Pack will center on
pressing issues and ideas of the day. The Frat Pack spokes person is a
witness from the Kobe Bryant rape trial. They have already testified on
behalf of Kobe Bryant in the closed court sessions, and are scheduled to
testify when the trial begins.

The Frat Pack spokes person is someone who typifies what the Frat Pack is
all about. When Kobe Bryant was charged they came forward with evidence and
testimony that showed the type of person Kate Faber really was. The spokes
person will becoming forward with the entire inside story. Much of what they
will offer is what you have yet to hear about in the media concerning who
Kate Faber really is. Learn the reason why Kobe Bryant was the person Kate
Faber set her sights on. Learn why the Frat Pack spokes person believes Kobe
Bryant is innocent, and that Kate Faber's story is weak at best.

==================

Be sure to buy a hat....

Swillabrew

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Jul 8, 2004, 6:56:25 PM7/8/04
to
"Terraholm" <terraholm_...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:10erd0h...@corp.supernews.com...

Destined to be the Kato Kaelins of the 21st century, or perhaps desiring to
be?

Go Blazers !


Miguel M

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Jul 8, 2004, 7:07:44 PM7/8/04
to

So anybody who's a witness in a criminal investigation is just trying
to bring attention to themselves?

Terraholm

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Jul 8, 2004, 7:23:57 PM7/8/04
to

Go check out her web site...

Dan

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Jul 8, 2004, 8:29:27 PM7/8/04
to
Terraholm <terraholm_...@hotmail.com> scribbled:

whats the address?

btw, LT, I finally sent the tapes back to you, from 2 seasons ago (well, now
3 seasons ago).
--

"if the women don't find you handsome, you haven't bought them enough
beer."

Terraholm

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Jul 8, 2004, 9:02:32 PM7/8/04
to

Dan wrote:
> Terraholm <terraholm_...@hotmail.com> scribbled:
>
>> Miguel M wrote:
>>> Messalina wrote:
>>>> "s_knight8" <s_knigh...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:<ccjlj0$s...@dispatch.concentric.net>...
>>>>
>>>>> http://www.fratpack.com/article-main.php?id=12
>>>>>
>>>>> -snip-
>>>>>
>>>>> Laie: From what I know, I don't believe she was raped. That she's
>>>>> just using this to bring attention to herself.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Funny, thats just what I was thinking about you, you little tramp.
>>>
>>> So anybody who's a witness in a criminal investigation is just
>>> trying to bring attention to themselves?
>>
>> Go check out her web site...
>
> whats the address?

http://www.fratpack.com/

>
> btw, LT, I finally sent the tapes back to you, from 2 seasons ago
> (well, now 3 seasons ago).

Thanks

Message has been deleted

Xavier

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Jul 9, 2004, 12:34:17 AM7/9/04
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"Swillabrew" <don'ts...@any.net> wrote in message news:<dvmdnRRqaru...@scnresearch.com>...

What a load of horsehit.
Kate Faber is a national hero.

She is just drawing attention to the fact that men are natural predators.
That scares you, I know.

Hero on the court, does not mean hero in the hotel.
-------------------------------------------
http://www.perverted-justice.com
Cleaning up the internet since 2002.

Message has been deleted
Message has been deleted

Curtis Blofeld

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Jul 11, 2004, 2:32:16 PM7/11/04
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sgann <camm...@yahooie.com> wrote in
news:CdWdnUT_rcg...@giganews.com:

> angry...@worldemail.com (Xavier) wrote in
> news:c5cd03d6.04070...@posting.google.com:

> You are, of course, a case in point. You fit the profile. You're the
> same age and sex as your perps. By your own admission you have little
> to do on Saturday nights but surf the web- social isolation a common
> feature of pedophiles. You exhibit an intense desire to 'control'
> others, another common feature. You are self-described as 'angry';
> presumably the world [and the opposite sex] not appreciating your
> attributes, much to your bitter disappointment.
>
> You're like the right-wing politician who railed against gays but was
> in fact a self-loathing closet homosexual or Strom Thurman who
> actively opposed integration all the while hiding his own illegitamate
> daughter by a black woman.
>
> Perhaps you 'console' young victims yourself? Do you get off on the
> sordid stories? Do your activities in this venture somehow- in your
> mind- make up for your nauseating desires with young girls and boys?
>
> Yes, you were unintentionally close to the mark 'Xavier', YOU are
> indeed a natural predator.
>

The Young Lady
Is A Tramp
Assault On Innocence
By Henry Makow, PhD
7-10-4

Last December, a baseball player was sentenced to 45 days in prison for
having sex with minors.

Cass Rynes, age 19, from Prince Edward Island received oral sex from two
local girls age 12 and 13. He maintained /they/ pursued /him/, and he
thought they were older.

This unusual case has drawn attention to a disturbing social phenomenon:
pubescent girls from all social strata think it's a sign of maturity to
dispense blow jobs.

A 2002 Health Canada survey found that one-third of all Grade Nine
students (age 13) and more than half of all Grade Eleven students (age
15) report having oral sex.

Freelance writer Sara Wilson talked to typical girls and found that oral
sex is not uncommon when teens gather without supervision. Apparently
girls will do just about anything to be popular. Oral sex is considered
"cool." Often they don't even know the boys and don't see them again.

The following is from Wilson's article "Good Girls Do" (/Globe and Mail/,
Feb 7, 2004)

Typically, "the guy will just use the girl," says Vanessa, 13. She bears
the full weight of a nasty double standard, being labeled a "slut,"
"whore" or "ho" while he gets praised by friends.

Still, those labels aren't as disparaging as they once were. For young
girls, even negative attention can be extremely attractive. "Even if
they're talking about you poorly, they're still talking about you. She
adds, "To get the name 'slut', at least that means...you're like older."

Whereas a girl's first period used to signal her entrance into womanhood,
Leslie says, now "you're a woman if you ...fool around with lots and lots
of people."

Kate agrees: When she and her girlfriends performed oral sex, she says,
"we were pretty proud."

Wilson concludes that feminist empowerment has led to female debauchery:
"Ever since the advent of Girl Power, being aggressively sexy has
practically become a political statement. Pop-culture figureheads such as
Christina Aguilera or Beyonce play out every bump-and-grind signal of
sexual availability..."

http://www.globeandmail.com/servlet/ArticleNews
/TPStory/LAC/20040207/CENTRE07

Sex education classes also may be to blame. They actually encourage young
girls to engage in oral sex, ostensibly to "cut down on pregnancies."
According to one UK report, schoolchildren, particularly girls, who
received such training, developed a 'more mature' response to sex.
http://observer.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,6903,1212734,00.html

OUR DECEITFUL LIBERAL CULTURE

We are taught to equate self-discipline with repression. Self-indulgence,
on the other hand, is equated with freedom and self-expression.

In fact, the opposite is true. Dedication to an ideal makes us powerful
and free while dissipation weakens and enslaves us to temptation or peer
pressure.

We are taught to think it courageous to defy traditional social mores.
The stodgy "establishment" wants to prevent us from having fun and
discovering ourselves.

In fact, the real establishment consists of a well-organized network of
super rich pedophiles, Satanists and drug dealers. See /"A Conspiracy Too
Monstrous to Conceive" / See also the book, "/The Franklin Cover-up/" by
John De Camp. http://www.savethemales.ca/000166.html and

Their goal is to consolidate their dominant position in a global fascist
police state, which they call the "new world order." They are waging a
secret war against humanity to destroy our "sources of natural and social
energy, and physical, mental and emotional strength..." /(Silent Weapons
for Secret Wars.) /http://phoenix.akasha.de/~aton/swfqw.html

The message teenage girls get from music videos and sex education classes
is designed to make them unfit for marriage and motherhood. Our secret
masters think of humanity as cattle, fit for culling by social
engineering and war. See "The Devil's Work: Feminism and the Elite
Depopulation Agenda" http://www.savethemales.ca/200202.html and "Tales of
Mind Control and World Tyranny" http://www.savethemales.ca/060103.html

Promiscuous girls are not defying the establishment or affirming
themselves. They are falling into a trap and ruining their chances for a
happy life.

GOOD MEN DON'T MARRY SLUTS

A young woman's charm is her capital. She must invest it wisely rather
than squander it.

This requires that she make marriage and family her primary focus.
Otherwise her romantic and maternal instincts will be frustrated, and she
will be alone and unhappy.

A young woman's beauty reflects her physical and spiritual innocence. Men
find innocence very attractive; it balances them emotionally and
spiritually. A woman who is hard and cynical is not attractive to men.

A young woman must consecrate her innocence for the man whom she will
eventually love and marry. Her thoughts should be focused on him and on
her future children. She should prepare herself to be worthy to become a
wife and mother.

There is no more beautiful sight than a young mother looking after her
children. The other day I saw a tall lithe young woman in the park
playing with twin daughters on the swings. What a rare sight these days
when governments herd children into soulless daycares and women into
fluorescent-lit offices.

"Are those children yours?" I asked.

She affirmed they were. She was glowing.

"Congratulations," I said. "They're beautiful!"

How much affirmation do these women get in popular culture? Zip. Rather
girls and young women are encouraged to squander their innocence. Who can
doubt that the devil's servants are coordinating this disgrace?

FINALLY

Similarly, a young man should prepare personally and professionally to
become a husband and father. His role is to provide his family with
practical and spiritual sustenance and leadership. He is the Captain of
the little ship. His wife is the First Mate.

Sexual dissipation is not healthy for males either. It makes them
disrespect women. I advise my 17-year-old son to seek a genuine
relationship rather than casual sex. "Hooking up" is degrading,
distracting, hurtful and generally unsatisfying. We are looking for more
than sexual release.

As I've said, women should get married and have children before going to
university. (University, especially the Arts, will poison their minds
with Feminist dogma.) They should marry older guys who are beginning
their careers.

Young women should insist on courtship. If a fellow hasn't got time for
her before sex, he certainly won't have time after.

People lament that life has no meaning. But God gives us purpose,
happiness and fulfillment through our family roles. Satanic forces are
using "feminism" to deprive us of this enriching experience, calling
these roles "stereotypes". Let's spit in their eye.

----------

See also my "The Burkha and the Bikini"
http://www.savethemales.ca/180902.html

Henry Makow Ph.D. is the inventor of the board game Scruples and author
of "A Long Way to go for a Date." His past article exposing feminism and
the new world order are found at his web site www.savethemales.ca
http://www.savethemales.ca/ he enjoys receiving comments at
henryatsavethemales.ca

--
BeDoper - http://www.bedoper.com/
Meter Versus Yard - http://www.soundclick.com/bands/3/meterversusyard.htm
DJ Manticore - http://www.soundclick.com/bands/8/manticore.htm
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/9/monteau.htm
High-C - http://www.garageband.com/artist/jasongortician
http://www.soundclick.com/theoriginalhighc

=> Vox Populi ©

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Jul 12, 2004, 12:20:21 PM7/12/04
to


"s_knight8" <s_knigh...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:ccjlj0$s...@dispatch.concentric.net...

> http://www.fratpack.com/article-main.php?id=12
>
> It was late December in 2002 and Kate Faber was plotting to make her next
> "trophy" Eminem. Faber had an obsession that involved sleeping with

> celebrities ...

Nothing there about any obsession to get Raped and Sodomized by
celebrities, is there?

How many other women has Kobe Bryant fornicated with and had
criminal adulterous sodomy with?

How many times has Kobe Bryant lied about his sexual behavior to
others, including his own wife?

Did he stick his filthy fornicating cock inside the mouth, vagina and anus
of
his own wife without telling her he jams it up every stinkin' fuckhole that
any
dirty little groupie offers to him ...?

General Sam

unread,
Jul 12, 2004, 2:27:09 PM7/12/04
to
=> Vox Populi © wrote:

> Did he stick his filthy fornicating cock inside

You need to get a new vibrator Lilith, you frustrated little bitch!


--
ÐÏ à¡± á

=> Vox Populi ©

unread,
Jul 12, 2004, 5:37:56 PM7/12/04
to
General Sam wrote:

> => Vox Populi Š wrote:
>
>> Did he stick his filthy fornicating cock inside
>
> You need to get a new vibrator Lilith, you frustrated
> little bitch!

Lookie here, Spammy the neo-con shiteater apologizing for
fornicating, adulterous, criminal sodomites ... how apropos ...


--
"The most important thing is for us to find Osama bin Laden.
It is our number one priority and we will not rest until we
find him." ~ George Bush Jr. 2001-09-13

"I don't know where he (bin Laden) is. I have no idea and I
really don't care. It's not that important. It's not our
priority." ~ George Bush Jr. 2002-03-13

"I was not prepared to shoot my eardrum out with a shotgun in
order to get a deferment. Not was I willing to go to Canada.
So I chose to better myself by learning how to fly airplanes."
~George W. Bush on how he dodged the
Vietnam draft---1994


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