Hostage standoff with 22 y.o.Daddy holding 2 slaves,aged 2 & 3,ends in violence,at least 1 little girl confirmed dead,in CA
Joe1orbit
As many of you who follow the news closely might know, there has been a
hostage/barricade standoff underway in California since early Friday morning.
22 year old Carlos Joseph Ramirez, a wanted felon accused of shooting SEVEN
people, in two separate incidents, in 1994 and 1995, killing one of them, has
been holed up inside of his ex-girlfriend's house, holding their two
child-slaves, aged 2 and 3 1/2, hostage. The incident began Friday morning,
when Carlos went to the house, got into an argument with the occupants, and
shot his ex-girlfriend's father. It was only a minor graze wound, and the man
was able to flee the home along with Carlos's ex gal-pal, and all other adults.
But our frightened humans left behind the two slaves, and Carlos seized them as
hostages and barricaded himself in the house.
For the past 45 hours or so, SWAT team members have surrounded the house,
trapping Carlos and trying to get his to surrender peacefully. Well, Carlos was
not about to do that. A few hours ago, the standoff did end, but the ending was
violent. Details are still sketchy, but we know for certain that one of the
child-slaves that was being held hostage is DEAD. The fate of thje other slave
and Carlos himself will be made public at a police news conference set to be
held within the hour. It sounds to me that there is a good chance that all
three are dead, including Carlos.
There is no confirmation yet that Carlos is the person who killed the child,
but in all likelihood, he did. I suppose it is possible that police snipers
accidently slaughtered the slave, while trying to get carlos, but that's rather
unlikely. It WAS the police who FORCED the issue, by CHOOSING to lob flash bang
grenades into the house and then storming in. They chose to force the hand of
Carlos, and IMO, they are responsible for causing the death of the child, or
both children, depending upon what we learn at the upcoming news conference.
Carlos was armed with a handgun, and probably a rifle as well. He did take a
few shots in the direction of the gathering cops, during the course of the
standoff, but didn't hit any of them. He did not choose to engage the cops in
dialogue, which I think was a smart move on his part. Friday afternoon, cops
managed to throw a telephone into the house, and Carlos let his 3 year old
slave-hostage pick up the phone and tell cops that she and her younger sister
were both okay, but he himself refused to talk to cops at all.
Sometime last night, Carlos broke a window in the house. Police are unsure
why, but I think it was to try and get a better chance at thwarting any SWAT
assault on the house, by giving himself a clear line of fire, as best he could,
given the situation.
We learn that exactly five years ago to the DAY, right in this same city of
Antioch, a different Daddy took both of his child-slaves hostage, then killed
them both and himself as well. Pretty weird coincidence. I wonder whether
Carlos had any knowledge of this previous incident, 5 years earlier?
Anyway, I really think the media should tell us already whether Carlos and
his other child-slave are indeed dead. This incident is OVER. Police OBVIOUSLY
know who is dead and who, if anyone, survived. And yet they choose to withhold
the information from the media, pending a news conference coming up in an hour.
That is frustrating. I don't want to wait, so I guess I'll make this post now,
and try to add a follow-up later this morning, confirming whether or not all
three of them are indeed dead. If I had to place a $5000 bet, I would go with
the assumption that Carlos did indeed carry out his mission, killing both child
slaves and then himself. But only time, and the police news conference, will
tell us for certain.
Take care, JOE
The following two news articles both appear courtesy of today's Associated
Press news wire:
Girl Dies in Ca. Hostage Standoff
By WILLIAM SCHIFFMANN
ANTIOCH, Calif. (AP) - A tense, two-day hostage standoff between a SWAT team
and a murder suspect holding his two daughters captive at gunpoint ended Sunday
with one child dead.
Carlos Joseph Ramirez, 22, had been holed up in his ex-girlfriend's house since
about 6 a.m. Friday, despondent over their troubled relationship.
Late Saturday night, police reportedly lobbed in several flash bang grenades
and brought the situation to a close.
``Shortly after midnight we received one female victim. She was dead on
arrival,'' Delta Memorial Hospital spokeswoman Nancy J. Monfort told The
Associated Press.
The condition of Ramirez and the other daughter was unknown, and a press
conference was scheduled for 6 a.m. Sunday.
SWAT team officers had played a waiting game with Ramirez, 22, who had
barricaded himself in the home. He told negotiators he was taking care of his
daughters, ages 2 and 3 1/2, police said Saturday.
``He threatened to kill his girlfriend and himself. He had an ongoing problem
with his girlfriend and she has told us that he doesn't want to be taken
alive,'' said police Capt. Kitt Schwitters.
The standoff began when Ramirez stormed into a back window of his
ex-girlfriend's house, apparently angry over the breakup of their relationship.
Armed with at least one handgun and possibly a rifle, Ramirez fired a shot at
Sam Viramontes, his ex-girlfriend's father, grazing him with a bullet. The
suspect then pulled one of his daughters in front of him as a shield, police
said.
The girlfriend, Cami Viramontes, and her parents managed to escape shortly
after calling for help.
Dozens of black-clad SWAT officers filled the neighborhood about 50 miles east
of San Francisco, some carrying sniper rifles. Police blocked off the
neighborhood and evacuated about 60 homes.
Frustrated by failed attempts to establish contact with Ramirez, who several
times left the phone off the hook, police threw a telephone into the home
Friday afternoon.
The 3-year-old picked it up, asking for her mother and telling police she and
her sister were safe, police said. Ramirez could be heard in the background but
refused to come to the phone, Schwitters said.
Ramirez at one point fired two rounds at officers. No one was injured.
Overnight, he also broke a front window, but it was unclear why, police said
Saturday.
AP-NY-07-12-98
---------------------------------------------------------------
On child dead in Antioch hostage situation
WILLIAM SCHIFFMANN, Associated Press Writer
Sunday, July 12, 1998
ANTIOCH, Calif. (AP) -- A tense, two-day hostage standoff between a SWAT team
and a murder suspect holding his two daughters captive at gunpoint ended Sunday
with one child dead, and a small community in mourning.
Carlos Joseph Ramirez, 22, had been holed up in his ex-girlfriend's house since
about 6 a.m. Friday, despondent over their troubled relationship.
But, late Saturday night, police reportedly lobbed in several flash bang
grenades and brought the situation to a close.
``Shortly after midnight we received one female victim. She was dead on
arrival,'' Delta Memorial Hospital spokeswoman Nancy J. Monfort told The
Associated Press.
The condition of Ramirez and the other daughter was unknown, and a press
conference was scheduled for 6 a.m. PST Sunday.
As the standoff moved in to its second day Saturday morning, authorities began
to notice a strikingly similar to a hostage situation that rocked this same
small town -- coincidentally five years ago to the day.
On July 11, 1993 Joel Souza, shot and killed both his children and himself
after taking them hostage in Antioch. Souza had run into his estranged wife and
her boyfriend at a fair.
Ramirez, a murder suspect, was also apparently angry over a relationship
breakup.
SWAT team officers had played a waiting game with Carlos Joseph Ramirez, 22,
who barricaded himself in the home. He told negotiators he was taking care of
his daughters, ages 2 and 3 ½, police said Saturday.
``He threatened to kill his girlfriend and himself. He had an ongoing problem
with his girlfriend and she has told us that he doesn't want to be taken
alive,'' said police Capt. Kitt Schwitters.
The standoff began when Ramirez stormed into a back window of his
ex-girlfriend's house, apparently angry over the breakup of their relationship.
Armed with at least one handgun and possibly a rifle, Ramirez fired a shot at
Sam Viramontes, his ex-girlfriend's father, grazing him with a bullet. The
suspect then pulled one of his daughters in front of him as a shield, police
said.
The girlfriend, Cami Viramontes, and her parents managed to escape shortly
after calling for help.
Dozens of black-clad SWAT officers filled the neighborhood about 50 miles east
of San Francisco, some carrying sniper rifles. Police blocked off the
neighborhood and evacuated about 60 homes.
Frustrated by failed attempts to establish contact with Ramirez, who several
times left the phone off the hook, police threw a telephone into the home
Friday afternoon.
The 3-year-old picked it up, asking for her mother and telling police she and
her sister were safe, police said. Ramirez could be heard in the background but
refused to come to the phone, Schwitters said.
Ramirez at one point fired two rounds at officers. No one was injured.
Overnight, he also broke a front window, but it was unclear why, police said
Saturday.
His relatives said they hoped he would surrender.
Ramirez is named in a $1 million warrant in the November 1995 killing of Martin
Maya, 17, in a suspected gang-related shooting that left two others wounded. He
is also is accused of shooting of four people in 1994, police said.
Witnesses identified Ramirez as the triggerman in 1995, and a search of his
home turned up ammunition matching those used in the shooting. But he never
returned home, and was believed to spent some time with relatives in Mexico.
Joe1orbit
As promised, here is an update/conclusion to our cliffhanger
hostage/barricade situation in California. Just as I predicted, police are now
confirming that 22 year old Carlos Joseph Ramirez did indeed kill BOTH of his
small daughters, aged 2 and 3 1/2, that he had been holding hostage for about
45 hours, since early Friday morning. After shooting both of his daughters to
death, Carlos turned the gun on himself. Yup, it's a classic double slave
murder-suicide, unusual only due to the fact that Carlos held the 2 slaves as
hostages, not harming them, for almost two full days, before finally killing
them.
Police say that they were negotiating with Carlos, in a calm manner, right up
unti about 11 PM last night. For some reason, Carlos became "hysterical" at
that point in time, and began shooting. He shot both daughters to death, then
himself. As soon as the SWAT team heard the gunshots they lobbed concussion
grenades into the house, then stormed in. But it was too late. Carlos was quick
enough on the trigger to successfully kill both child-slaves, and then himself.
The older girl, aged 3 1/2, was still alive when cops stormed in, but died as
she was being rushed to the hospital.
It's not clear exactly what type of gun Carlos was armed with, and used to
commit the double murder-suicide. He definately had a handgun with him, and
possibly a rifle as well. But whatever caliber weapon he had, it did do the job
that it was intended to do, with complete success.
Usually, it is not a good idea for a hostage taker to delay carrying out his
killings, or to engage in negotiations with police. But in this case, Carlos
clearly had control over the situation, and HE is the one who INITIATED the
violence. It was his choice to initiate, that resulted in the successful double
murder. If he had waited for the SWAT team to storm the house, he very likely
would have been caught by surprise and not had enough time to carry out the
double murder. So ya gotta give Carlos credit. He shaped his own destiny. He
did not allow the cops to control the situation, or to launch any type of a
pro-active attack upon him. He used his hostages well, kept them close, and
clearly had his gun fully loaded and ready for action.
Take care, JOE
The following two news articles both appear courtesy of today's Associated
Press news wire:
Tragic End to Calif. Hostage Crisis
By WILLIAM SCHIFFMANN
ANTIOCH, Calif. (AP) - A tense two-day standoff between a SWAT team and a
murder suspect holding his two daughters captive at gunpoint ended late
Saturday with all three dead.
Carlos Joseph Ramirez, 22, had been holed up in his ex-girlfriend's house since
about 6 a.m. Friday, apparently despondent over their troubled relationship.
Negotiations were proceeding calmly until shortly before 11 p.m. Saturday, when
Ramirez became hysterical, police said at a Sunday morning news conference.
Police went in after hearing gunshots, reportedly lobbing several concussion
bombs into the house.
Ramirez and his 2-year-old daughter were found dead. His 3 1/2-year-old died on
the way to the hospital, police said.
The apparent murder-suicide came five years to the day after another Antioch
man - also distraught over a breakup - took his son and daughter hostage, then
killed them and himself during a standoff.
SWAT team officers had played a waiting game with Ramirez, who barricaded
himself in the home for some 42 hours. He told negotiators he was taking care
of his daughters, police said Saturday.
``He threatened to kill his girlfriend and himself. He had an ongoing problem
with his girlfriend'' and she told authorities that he didn't want to be taken
alive, said police Capt. Kitt Schwitters.
The standoff began when Ramirez stormed into a back window of his
ex-girlfriend's house, apparently angry over the breakup of their relationship.
Armed with at least one handgun and possibly a rifle, Ramirez fired a shot at
Sam Viramontes, his ex-girlfriend's father, grazing him with a bullet. The
suspect then pulled one of his daughters in front of him as a shield, police
said.
The girlfriend, Cami Viramontes, and her parents managed to escape shortly
after calling for help.
Dozens of black-clad SWAT officers filled the neighborhood about 50 miles east
of San Francisco, some carrying sniper rifles. Police blocked off the
neighborhood and evacuated 66 homes.
Frustrated by failed attempts to establish contact with Ramirez, who several
times left the phone off the hook, police threw a telephone into the home
Friday afternoon.
The 3-year-old picked it up, asking for her mother and telling police she and
her sister were safe, police said. Ramirez could be heard in the background but
refused to come to the phone, Schwitters said.
Ramirez at one point fired two rounds at officers. No one was injured.
Overnight, he also broke a front window, but it was unclear why, police said
Saturday.
AP-NY-07-12-98
-----------------------------------------------------
Murder suspect, two children dead in Antioch hostage case
WILLIAM SCHIFFMANN, Associated Press Writer
Sunday, July 12, 1998
ANTIOCH, Calif. (AP) -- A tense, two-day hostage standoff between a SWAT team
and a murder suspect holding his two daughters captive at gunpoint ended Sunday
with a small community in mourning.
Antioch police announced that Carlos Joseph Ramirez, 22, and his children all
were dead.
Ramirez had been holed up in his ex-girlfriend's house since about 6 a.m.
Friday, despondent over their troubled relationship.
But, late Saturday night, police reportedly lobbed in several flash bang
grenades and brought the situation to a close.
``Shortly after midnight we received one female victim. She was dead on
arrival,'' Delta Memorial Hospital spokeswoman Nancy J. Monfort told The
Associated Press.
The condition of Ramirez and the other daughter was announced Sunday at a 6
a.m. PST press conference.
Joe1orbit
This will be my final post, before I head out for my 7+ hours of tasks. The
news wires are actually pretty quiet this morning, in terms of major TC events,
so I guess I'll close with a somewhat interesting update on the California
hostage/barricade situation that ended yesterday morning with 22 year old
Carlos Joseph Ramirez, wanted by police for a 1994 murder, shooting his 2
child-slaves, aged 1 and 3, to death, before killing himself.
We get a few interesting new details on exactly how this 40+ hour standoff
came to a blood end, and from a tactical point of view, we see how a hostage
taker CAN control his destiny, if he is pro-active in shaping the path of the
incident.
Exactly 5 years ago, in this same city, a different Daddy named Joel Souza
took his 2 child-slaves, aged 5 and 8, hostage at gunpoint. Police decided to
cut off his electricity and water supply, and after nine hours, police decided
to give that hostage-taker an ULTIMATUM. They verbally told the Daddy that he
had "10 minutes to surrender or else". Well, that was a stupid move, since most
enraged humans do not take kindly to being threatened or given deadlines. The
man waited for NINE minutes, and then shot both child-slaves to then killed
himself. This was a classic example of the police LITERALLY forcing the hostage
taker into killing his slaves. In fact, the city was SUED by Joel's widow,
after the incident, and forced to pay a $175,000 cash settlement! Wow, that's
cool! Your hubby kills himself and your 2 children, and you get to profit
financially from the homicidal-suicidal actions of your estranged hubby!
Over this weekend, police took a different approach with regard to 22 year
old Carlos. They decided to wait him out, once they knew that both child-slaves
were okay and had not been physically harmed. So they patiently tried to engage
Daddy Carlos in dialogue, hoping to tire him out and get him to peacefully
surrender. That is a more rational ploy, but it failed miserably.
Carlos held his 2 child-slaves for 42 hours or so, and then, as he was
talking to police on the phone, he suddenly cried out: "What is wrong with me?
``Oh, my God, I love you.'' He then began to count down, verbally, "5, 4, 3,
2, 1,...." Right after he uttered the word "one", he started shooting, killing
both his offspring and himself. The thing that Carlos had going for him was the
element of SURPRISE. He lured police into thinking that he wasn't going to do
anything "drastic", by calmly talking with them for hours, prior to his
decision to go through with the double murder-suicide. Thus, even though he DID
give himself away at the end, the few SECONDS that it took him to say
"5,4,3,2,1," were of course not enough time for police to prevent his
successfully carrying out the double murder. Declares a police chief: "To my
knowledge, there were no specific problems that were occurring in the
negotiations just prior to the incident. Suddenly, he changed his demeanor, and
we have no idea why." Well, I think that Carlos KNEW and PLANNED all along to
kill both child-slaves and then himself. He simply humored the cops, strung
them along, and had already set his OWN "deadline" for when he would carry out
the killings, HOURS earlier. If so, that was a WISE tactical move on his part.
All three of them were found together, in the same bedroom. Whenever you have
hostages, you MUST keep them all together in one room, preferably a room
WITHOUT any windows, although obviously that limits your ability to monitor
exactly what the SWAT team is doing outside. A hostage-taker must strike a
balance between where he focuses his attention. If he WANTS to KILL his
hostages successfully, at some point in time, if this is his ULTIMATE goal, he
must focus the great bulk of his attention upon them, and not be overly
distracted by SWAT or police movements that take place outside of the house.
IMO, Carlos did a very good job, and certainly accomplished his goal, despite
there being 100+ cops all around the house, surrounding it, with SNIPERS in
place as well.
Take care, JOE
The following appears courtesy of today's Associated Press news wire:
Tragic End to Calif. Hostage Crisis
By WILLIAM SCHIFFMANN
ANTIOCH, Calif. (AP) - Five years ago, after a distraught father held his two
kids at gunpoint for nine hours, police gave him 10 minutes to surrender. With
one minute to go, he killed himself, his 8-year-old son and his 5-year-old
daughter.
So late last week, when another distraught man took his two young daughters
hostage less than a mile away from the 1993 slayings, police sought to avoid a
second tragedy, choosing to wait in hopes that the father would eventually
surrender.
But the end was the same.
Carlos Joseph Ramirez shot his 1-year-old and 3-year-old girls to death before
turning the gun on himself - on the fifth anniversary of the other
murder-suicide.
``It is too eerie,'' Joe Appel, a lawyer who represented the wife of the first
killer, told the Contra Costa Times. ``July 11. Antioch. I looked at that today
and I said, 'Deja vu all over again.'''
The latest tragedy unfolded late Saturday night, 42 hours after Ramirez, 22,
forced his way into the home of ex-girlfriend Cami Viramontes and took his two
daughters hostage.
Viramontes, the mother of the two girls, and her parents were forced out of the
home. Ramirez shot and wounded her father.
During the nearly two-day ordeal, police constantly talked with Ramirez by
telephone. Friends outside held a banner that read: ``Carlos, we love you.''
Then suddenly, negotiations went sour.
Police said Ramirez cried out: ``What is wrong with me?'' Then, ``Oh, my God, I
love you,'' followed by the countdown, ``5, 4, 3, 2 .
Shortly thereafter negotiators heard what they believed was a gunshot, police
Lt. Rich Marchoke said early Sunday. Police were unable to reestablish contact
with Ramirez.
In a bedroom of the house in a pleasant, older neighborhood of well-kept single
family homes shaded by trees, they found Ramirez and his younger daughter
already dead. His older daughter, still showing some signs of life, died en
route to the hospital.
Almost 100 officers, many in black SWAT gear with sniper rifles, surrounded the
home, prepared to wait Ramirez out.
``It's a very tragic event, a type of situation I don't think anybody ever gets
used to,'' said Antioch Police Chief Dave Lewis.
It was a different approach than that taken when Joel Souza, 35, upset at the
breakup of his marriage, barricaded himself and his two children inside their
house just a half-mile from the Viramontes home.
Authorities cut off Souza's electricity and water. After a nine-hour standoff
on a scorching summer day, they gave Souza 10 minutes to give up. Nine minutes
later, he killed his children and then committed suicide.
The aggressive approach cost the city $175,000 in a settlement with Souza's
widow. Officers don't know why the waiting game failed with Ramirez, who had
been wanted on three separate warrants, including a 1995 gang-related killing.
``To my knowledge, there were no specific problems that were occurring in the
negotiations just prior to the incident,'' Lewis said. ``Suddenly, he changed
his demeanor, and we have no idea why.''
The deaths shook the residents of Antioch, a fast-growing community of some
75,000 about 50 miles east of San Francisco, home to armies of workers who head
daily for the San Francisco Bay area or Silicon Valley to the south.
``Why the babies? It just breaks my heart,'' said Meg Gibson, who just moved
into the neighborhood over the Fourth of July weekend, as she attached a wooden
yellow ribbon to her garage door.
``This could happen anywhere,'' said Mary Bennett, wiping tears from her eyes
with a tissue. ``You just don't know what makes people snap.''
AP-NY-07-13-98
--------------------------------------------------------
The following appears courtesy of the 7/13/98 online edition of The San
Francisco Chronicle newspaper:
Killings Stun Antioch
`No one thought he was going to harm the kids'
Kevin Fagan, Christopher Heredia, Chronicle Staff Writers
Monday,áJuly 13, 1998
Almost everyone was sure that whatever happened in the cordoned- off house in
Antioch, the two tiny hostages would come out alive -- but in a sudden,
horrifying eruption of rage and despair, it was over.
As the police SWAT team rushed into the house late Saturday night to find
22-year-old Carlos Ramirez dead with his two mortally shot toddler daughters in
an apparent murder-suicide, one heart-wrenching question was already forming.
How could Ramirez's 42-hour standoff end so unthinkably, when no one who knew
him thought he would harm his own daughters?
``He loved those children like his own life,'' Ramirez's mother, Elsa Ramirez,
said as she gathered to grieve with relatives at her Antioch home. ``All he
said when I talked to him was that he wanted to take care of his kids.''
Throughout the standoff, ``he was reading to the kids, changing the littlest
one's diapers and putting ointment on her for diaper rash, feeding the kids hot
dogs and Pedialyte,'' Ramirez said, choking back a sob. ``Does this sound like
a man who wanted to kill his daughters?''
Relatives of the children's mother, 25-year-old Cami Viramontes, Ramirez's
ex-girlfriend, echoed the sentiment. ``No one, not even Cami, thought he was
going to harm the kids,'' said Kevin Viramontes, Cami's cousin.
Antioch officials say Ramirez was talking relatively calmly with police
mediators throughout the standoff until 10:53 p.m., when he inexplicably
started screaming and rambling.
``What is wrong with me? No. Oh, my God, I love you,'' Ramirez cried out,
according to police. Then came his last words: ``Five, four, three, two . . .
''
Negotiators on the phone next heard what sounded like two muffled shots, one
sharp and loud shot, and then the line went silent. They had hoped the
relatives were right about his fatherly inclination, but they never ruled out
murderous possibilities, given his violent background.
``We attempted to re-establish contact. We couldn't. So we went in,'' a weary
Antioch police Lieutenant Rick Marchoke said early yesterday morning. He said
the SWAT team waited about an hour before charging the house.
The father and his daughters were found in a bedroom, each shot with one of
Ramirez's guns, police said.
Ramirez and his younger daughter, 1-year-old Kavi, were dead, and his other
daughter, 3-year-old Kayleonna, was clinging to life. Kayleonna was rushed to
nearby Sutter Delta Medical Center, where she was pronounced dead on arrival.
Police refused to reveal what their actions were as they entered the house, or
exactly what happened during negotiations, saying it was a ``tactical matter''
being reviewed.
But neighbors and Ramirez's relatives said before the house was stormed, they
heard at least one blast -- sources said police tossed in a concussion grenade
designed to stun him -- as a flash lit up the block, then several popping
sounds. Some also said they thought they heard at least one gunshot about three
hours before the police entered the house.
Police said they fired no gunshots throughout the entire ordeal, and they were
prepared to wait as long as it took for a peaceful end. But once they heard
gunshots over the phone and couldn't raise Ramirez again, there was only one
choice: Go in.
The probability that the 3-year-old lay wounded and alive in the house for
about an hour was tragic, but necessary given the situation, police said.
``You have to consider the safety of all parties involved in a situation like
this,'' said Police Chief David Lewis. ``You don't know who's dead. When you
hear gunshots, it changes the dynamics of how you make entry. You don't hear
shots and barge in the door -- that could lead to a lot more fatalities.'' The
people most likely to shed light on Ramirez's final hours are the negotiators,
and they weren't talking yesterday. Without that and other bits of information,
Ramirez's family remained doubtful of the official account.
``They said there were no shots when they went in, but other people say there
were,'' said Ramirez's mother. ``They're not telling us everything.''
Eerily, the shootings came on the fifth anniversary of a similar tragedy in
Antioch, when Joel Souza shot his two children and himself to death after being
pressured by police to surrender.
Lewis and other city officials adamantly denied that there was any relation to
the way this standoff was handled and the Souza debacle. Souza had no criminal
or violence record, they said, while Ramirez was wanted for a 1994 shooting and
had a $1 million warrant outstanding for a 1995 gang-related slaying in
Antioch.
The way the drama began Friday at 6:10 a.m. also made negotiators unusually
wary.
Ramirez broke into the house -- Cami Viramontes lives with her children and her
parents, Sam and Janice Viramontes -- through a window, wearing camouflage
clothing and face paint, and began threatening the adults with a 9mm handgun
and rifle, police said.
He was upset over the breakup of his relationship with the children's mother,
and in the chaos that erupted he shot Sam Viramontes, who had armed himself
with a pistol.
``He wanted to kill all the adults, so they ran out,'' said one source familiar
with the investigation. ``Nobody dreamed he would ever harm the children, so
they decided to let the police sort it out.''
As police surrounded the residence, Ramirez fired at least two rounds at them,
hitting nobody. By 8:30 a.m., officers were evacuating 150 people from several
blocks in the pleasant, normally quiet Mira Vista neighborhood.
Negotiators said Ramirez appeared to be taking good care of the girls as the
standoff stretched on. At one point, mediators told him that if he gave up,
``in two years you can go to Disneyland with your kids,'' said one source.
The comment made Ramirez angry, as did mediator suggestions that if he gave up
he could eventually get a job and reunite with Viramontes, the source said.
Elsa Ramirez said she talked to her son by phone Saturday between 6 and 7 p.m.,
``and he kept saying, `the only thing I want is to talk to Cami.' He kept
crying, saying, `this isn't how it was supposed to happen.''
Chief Lewis said negotiators didn't let Viramontes talk to Ramirez because
``the volatile relationship'' between the two might trigger the gunman into
violence.
Kevin Viramontes said his cousin and her parents were staying with relatives
and did not want to talk. Cami Viramontes, he said, ``is holding up OK, but I
think she has slept almost all day.''
Police said the sole motive for the siege appeared to be Ramirez's fixation on
his relationship.
They said Ramirez had eluded officers since the 1995 homicide, and that after
fleeing to Mexico he had returned and was living recently with his mother.
Neighbors were filled with a mixture of sadness and anger yesterday as police
let them back into their homes. They were unhappy that they had to stay with
relatives, in motels or at a nearby Red Cross shelter, but they were even more
miserable that all the upheaval had saved no one.
``All of Antioch is grieving,'' said a weeping Mayor Mary Rocha, who lives a
half-block from the house and had to evacuate.
``This is all crazy,'' Ron Crivello said while he watered the lawn he had to
neglect for two days. ``People are talking about whether the cops did this
thing right or wrong, but is there really a right or wrong in a situation like
this? What else could they do but wait, and then go in?''
Dozens of residents, many weeping, arrived throughout the day to place flowers
and toys on a makeshift memorial on the trunk of a police car near the house.
About 200 more people gathered last night for a candlelight vigil at the nearby
Calvary Open Bible Church.
``I wanted to give those girls something important,'' said 5-year-old Briana
Rael, as she dropped off two Barbie dolls and a fistful of carnations at the
memorial.
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The following appears courtesy of the 7/13/98 online edition of The San
Francisco Examiner newspaper:
Antioch struggles to deal with deaths
By Keay Davidson
OF THE EXAMINER STAFF
Monday, July 13, 1998
ANTIOCH -- Sobbing, a distraught father with a shotgun cried out, "What is
wrong with me?" Then, "No. Oh, my god, I love you," before uttering a countdown
to death -- the death of his two young daughters, followed by himself.
"... 5, 4, 3, 2 ...," said Carlos Joseph Ramirez before he began firing the gun
at 2-year-old Kavi and 4-year-old Kayleonna, then himself.
Police are investigating what drove 22-year-old Ramirez -- a murder suspect
reportedly upset with his ex-girlfriend, Cami Viramontes -- to grab a shotgun,
hold their daughters hostage for two days, then shoot them and himself late
Saturday night.
On Sunday, a small mountain of flowers and teddy bears was piled atop the hood
of a police car near the house. The gifts symbolized a community's grief over
the violent deaths.
Residents of this quiet, tree-shaded neighborhood struggled to explain the
tragedy -- which occurred five years to the day after another father killed his
two young children and then himself in this Delta town of about 75,000.
On a sweltering afternoon, while one youngster served ice water to a flock of
parched journalists, others gazed in silent fascination at the death house.
"We're explaining to our children that the girls are up in heaven -- that
they're "upstairs' and God is taking care of them now, and that they won't be
hurt anymore," said Anne Anderson, mother of two.
Taneya Geisinger, 8, placed one of her drawings atop the pile of gifts. Asked
to explain what she had drawn, she only smiled shyly.
Her mom, Brenda Geisinger, said Taneya "has been asking a lot of questions,
like: "Why would their father do that to his own kids?' I tried to explain to
her what had happened. She also wanted to know where they take the bodies. We
said, "The morgue.'
"We had to explain to her what that was."
Several hundred people gathered Sunday night for a candlelight vigil on the
lawn of the Calvary Open Bible Church on Putnam Street, just a block from the
house where Ramirez shot himself and his two young daughters. Many members of
the crowd knew the families, many more did not but all were shocked and
saddened by the brutal shooting of two little girls by their father.
"I didn't ever think Carlos was going to kill his kids," said Christina
Beltram, 18, who knew Ramirez and his ex-girlfriend.
Beltram said Viramontes is touched by the outpouring of community support.
"She keeps sending people out to take pictures of the teddy bears and all. She
didn't want to go out, but she asked my dad to tape it," she said.
Denise Plummer, 27, a neighbor and mother of two, helped organize the vigil.
"I never met them but that doesn't matter. God knows who they are," said
Plummer. "I have a heart for this family. They need all our prayers."
Plummer, who is expecting a third child in August, said the vigil grew out of a
gathering the evening before when she and a few friends from a nearby church
came to the Calvary lawn to pray for the families.
Antioch's mayor, Mary Rocha, a longtime friend and neighbor of the Viramontes
family, said Viramontes tried hard to talk Ramirez into letting her take their
daughters when he first broke into the house.
"She's a good mother," Rocha said. "Last night she was just rocking and crying,
holding their pictures."
On Sunday, coroner's officials removed the bodies of Ramirez and his youngest
daughter from the Putnam Street home, while police investigators entered and
exited the house, some carrying out furniture, which was piled on the lawn.
Meanwhile, Ramirez's great-uncle angrily charged that he could have talked
Ramirez into giving himself up, but that police refused his help.
He "was a very loveable person .é.é. a very sports-minded guy. He liked to go
fishing," Francisco Ramirez of Bay Point said of his great-nephew.
"If they had let me talk to him," Francisco Ramirez insisted, "I could have
talked him out." He said he twice asked officers for permission to do so, and
was in one case assured: "We are professionals."
"I said, "Well, sometimes professionals make mistakes.'é"
Francisco Ramirez said he is the uncle of the gunman's father, Ray Ramirez,
said to be living in Arkansas.
Early Sunday afternoon, Francisco Ramirez came to the Antioch police station in
hopes of finding out how he could see the victims' bodies. He hoped to examine
them to check out his suspicion -- for which he offered no evidence -- that
police sharpshooters, not his great-nephew, accidentally may have caused the
deaths.
Ramirez tried and failed to get inside the police station. All he got was a
voice on an intercom located outside the front door. The voice, of a female
police-station employee, told him the officials he needed to talk to were out.
The killings occurred five years to the day after another Antioch father, Joel
Souza, upset at the breakup of his marriage, barricaded himself and his two
young children inside their house just a half-mile from the Viramontes home.
During that standoff, authorities took a hard-nosed approach, cutting off
Souza's electricity and water. After a nine-hour standoff on a scorching summer
day, they gave Souza 10 minutes to give up. Nine minutes later, the 35-year-old
Souza killed his 8-year-old son, his 5-year-old daughter and himself.
The aggressive approach cost the city $175,000 in a settlement with Souza's
widow.
With Ramirez, Antioch police used a far less confrontational negotiating style,
deciding to wait him out.
The 42-hour Ramirez drama began about 6:10 a.m. Friday.
Police said Ramirez broke into the home where Viramontes lived with her two
children and parents. Ramirez shot his ex-girlfriend's father, Sam Viramontes,
wounding him slightly in the stomach, then forced everyone but his two
daughters out of the house.
During the two-day ordeal that followed, Ramirez fired shots inside the home
and at a police SWAT team outside. An eight-block area of the neighborhood was
evacuated, affecting at least 66 households, while police began negotiations
with Ramirez via telephone.
Ramirez reportedly had been wanted on three warrants, including a 1995
gang-related killing.
At about 10:53 p.m. on Saturday night, Police Chief Dave Lewis said Ramirez
"suddenly changed" from having a normal dialogue with police negotiators to
what Lewis called "abnormal behavior."
Ramirez cried out: "What is wrong with me?" Then, "No. Oh, my god, I love you,"
followed by the countdown, "5, 4, 3, 2 .é.é." That was followed by "the sound
of one gunshot," police Lt. Rich Marchoke said.
Unable to re-establish contact with Ramirez during the hour that followed,
police hurled concussion bombs into the house before a SWAT team charged
inside, where officers found Ramirez and Kavi dead and Kayleonna struggling to
stay alive.
Kayleonna died en route to Sutter Delta Medical Center.
The violence shocked local residents. None of those gathered near the house
Sunday afternoon could recall having seen Ramirez before.
"He's a coward," said one neighbor, Ron Crivello. "He should have killed
himself -- period."
"We're all friendly neighbors, never have any problems," said Dan Copel, a
20-year resident of Putnam Street who runs an electronics assembly firm with
his wife. "You see this kind of thing on TV and say, "I'm sure glad it didn't
happen here.'
"And now, this."
Examiner reporter Tyche Hendricks and Examiner news services contributed to
this report.